Atheism plays a large role (perhaps one of the biggest) in the destruction of western civilization. It is one of the root causes for the degeneracy and overall moral decline we see today.
It all stems from the fact that atheism is incompatible with moral universalism, which makes it possible to morally rationalize any action (i.e. moral relativism), as can be seen with the LGBTQ movement. This acronym is constantly evolving (currently at LGBTQQIP2SAA if I'm not mistaken), and I believe it's just a matter of time before pedophilia and bestiality are integrated as well (in-before muh slippery slope).
I expect some people to challenge the notion that atheism is incompatible with moral universalism. I've had this debate before, and they usually resort to: "Empathy is in our biology. It's a product of evolution that is innate in all humans." The problem with this argument is that it begets the question: Whose "biology" are we talking about? Not everyone are empathetic about the same things. People seem to have different concepts of what is wrong and what isn't. Who is right? What society? Not to mention that it's irrational and quite frankly intellectually dishonest to assume that there is an ultimate standard of right and wrong that supersedes mere fanciful "ideas" about what is right and wrong at a given time in our ethical evolution (from an atheistic perspective).
I'm not saying that all atheists are amoral, but that has more to do with the intellectual cowardice, hypocrisy and inconsistent logic of atheists than it does with the moral strength of atheism.
Atheists proclaim to be intellectually superior and have an aptitude for logical and critical thinking, yet they fail to understand something so simple. It just boggles my mind.
I agree with you. Atheists are fucking retarded.
Agnosticism is the only logical (and red-pilled) stance.
I agree with you. Atheists are fucking retarded.
Agnosticism is the only logical (and red-pilled) stance.
>>80275179
Do you believe in the existence of a god? It's a Yes or No question.
>>80275033
>>80275033
Agreed. It was how they were able to jettison our values and morality. Once that is gone, then they can make people do anything degenerate and rot society from the inside out.
As Sven posted from his cuckshed.
>>80275670
>Implying I'm a catholic
Goody good, love ‘em all up, tolerant, pacifistic "christians" (like protestans and catholics) who profess all the century old heresies emanating from the “whited sepulchres” of theological cemeteries are nothing but blind ditch dwellers who have dragged the whole world into the hellish abyss of these present times. They violate the word of God from Genesis to Revelation in order to be politically correct and socially acceptable.
>>80275033
I totally agree as well. it results in apathy and lack of compassion and collective will.
Return to Christ.
>>80275273
Agnosticism is just laziness.
If Atheism, it doesn't matter what you think about. Spend it thinking about something that has the possibility of a lasting pay off.
If Theism, the only thing worth thinking about is your maker, and the maker of all things (and therefore all things by extension).
You just apply pascal's wager to general theism. Agnosticism is just atheism with blinders installed by the very thinker that likes to imagine themselves more enlightened than those who have enough balls to take an ideological position.
>>80275598
Cannot know to either way.
>>80275033
Atheism is simply a denial of the long held belief that there is something mystical about being upright, vertical, and intelligent.
It is the acknowledgement that religion, in its long existence, has only existed for one purpose; to remove the fear of death from a controllable population with promises of life after death. To use that fear to control, intimidate, and lead the fearful masses the way the few people in power want them to go.
Atheism is a denial of tens of thousands of years of 'Magical thinking' by the human race that date back to ancestor worship and shamanism.
It is an acknowledgement that after you die, you receive oblivion. That you have one life to live. You can either live it, or not, as you choose. And not by the will of other people.
I welcome the empty void of death. And even that is magical thinking... because it is impossible to verify or determine scientifically as yet.
Death, my friend /pol/, is the ultimate adventure. Oblivion or Reincarnation or God or the Devil, it doesn't really matter as long as you walk into it with teeth bared and laughing at the enjoyment of the life you have lived and discontentment at the hardship of your life.
In short, [spoiler]YOLO[/spoiler]
On the contrary, it's the slave morality of Christianity that lies at the core of the destruction of the West. The ethic of eternal forgiveness, the ethic of forever turning the other cheek is what's destroying Europe right now. If you never consider revenge an option, even to restore stability in society, then your society is doomed. The slave morality forbids this tit-for-tat ethic, which opens the West up for endless abuse, which is what we're seeing now. In fact, leftism is little more than a secular version of Christianity, with its idea that the Western way of life is 'sinful' towards the 'oppressed'. This self-loathing is something straight out of Christianity and would have been completely unthinkable without it.
>Atheists claim to be so superior since they are not beholden to le invisible sky man
>biggest fucking pussies known to man
>just instigate conflict and try to control other people
>never achieve anything out of the ordinary despite being so self proclaimed limitless
>>80276617
Fail to see how any of that is relevant to the OP. Atheism leads to degeneracy since it's fundamentally a morally bankrupt ideology.
>>80277542
Actually it would be the strict moral, social, and ideological repression of religion that causes the most degeneracy.
When you have such a tightly bound set of rules, the lash back against it is far greater then those who simply walk free of those bonds.
Religion has lead to pedophilia, rape, twisted pornography, murder, world war, repression, racism, sexism, famine, disease, and so much more. All to uphold beliefs that make you feel a little bit better about dying.
Is it no wonder that I prefer to be an Atheist?
>>80277406
>On the contrary, it's the slave morality of Christianity that lies at the core of the destruction of the West.
It was christianity who built western civilization. What are you on about?
>The ethic of eternal forgiveness, the ethic of forever turning the other cheek is what's destroying Europe right now.
That's not biblical though. The Bible teaches that wrongdoers should be punished, but also forgiven. See, you can still forgive someone even if you punish them.
>>80278077
Christianity built the west, and then the denial of Christianity made it Free. The current era is the last gasp of old men stuck in their ways trying to keep a controlling grip on the human population so as to continue their power monopoly on the human condition.
>>80278019
>Religion has lead to pedophilia
No.
>Rape
No.
>Twisted pornography
No.
>Murder
No (you're confusing murder with killing)
>World War
Meh, perhaps. Hard to say really.
>Repression
What kind?
>Racism
Yes. Nothing bad with racism.
>Sexism
Yes. Nothing bad with sexism.
>Famine.
No.
>Disease.
No.
Actually, most of these can be associated with atheism. Especially pedophilia, rape and twisted pornography.
>Actually it would be the strict moral, social, and ideological repression of religion that causes the most degeneracy.
Who decides what's degenerate and not in an atheistic worldview? Surely that boils down to opinion.
Looking for the bigger straw itt
>>80278290
>Christianity built the west, and then the denial of Christianity made it Free.
Yeah, and see where that has gotten us. Ever since the west abandoned God, it has turned to absolute shit.
Go atheism! Woo!
>>80275033
If someone intelligent enough to understand he was told lies for his whole life it doesnt says that he can fall again for a diffrent lie
religion is a lie
the state is a lie
the truth is being rational and scientific
>>80278077
>It was christianity who built western civilization
No, that would be the pagan Romans and Greeks. Christianity did pretty much fuck all, except taking credit for stuff it stole from others and pointless sophistry.
>That's not biblical though.
No, sorry, it's the essence of Christianity. The essence of the Christian story, which Christians like you by the way are always very quick to denounce as totally not Jewish, is that you should undergo injustice for the sake of injustice and suffering for the sake of suffering, even when there's absolutely no point to it, just so that you can congratulate yourself of how terribly moral and devent you are, which is the exact same thing leftists in the West are doing right now. Face it, you're basically a proto-SJW. You just switch to the Old Testament when it suits you, and declare it invalid when it doesn't
>>80275033
The Burden of Proof is on Atheists to prove that there is no God.
>bu-but that's not how it works muh dawkins said so!!!!
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
>>80277542
>>80278019
>>80278547
Look at Japan, with its horrific degeneracy. They, as a people, live by ancient traditions as strong to them as religion. And while they do not have a solid religious ground in which to stand compared to say... America... their level of degeneracy is insanely high.
The ideological, behavioral, and moral control placed on their people is incredibly rigid, dating back to feudal times when religion and monarchy held sway.
Their displays of raw degeneration are merely a correlating effect on just how bankrupt religion causes people to behave.
The same holds true for China. And other countries have their own horrible regimes and religious or merely controlling governments.
>>80279180
You're just strengthening my point with that flag of yours.
>>80279205
>No, that would be the pagan Romans and Greeks.
Yeah... no.
>No, sorry, it's the essence of Christianity.
No, it's not. It's the essence of the jew-perverted versions of christianity. It's not biblical.
>The essence of the Christian story, which Christians like you by the way are always very quick to denounce as totally not Jewish, is that you should undergo injustice for the sake of injustice and suffering for the sake of suffering, even when there's absolutely no point to it, just so that you can congratulate yourself of how terribly moral and devent you are
The thing fail to understand is that the Bible was written by and for white people (especially men). All the verses about suffering, helping the weak, giving money to the poor, and such, is referring to your own race, the white race. It's not referring to pre-adamite beasts or spawns of Satan (jews) or the mongrelization inbetween.
Sven you have excellent English well done
I'm pretty sure you can have a set of morals without resorting to mythology, why the fuck is religion hijacking morality everytime ?
>>80279337
>Look at Japan, with its horrific degeneracy. They, as a people, live by ancient traditions as strong to them as religion. And while they do not have a solid religious ground in which to stand compared to say... America... their level of degeneracy is insanely high.
Perhaps I misunderstood your previous post. I was assuming you were talking about christianity specifically (when you went on about religion). I agree that other religions promote degenerate behaviour. It is on the Bible which can promote a prosperous and morally sound society.
>>80280297
only*
>>80280233
>I'm pretty sure you can have a set of morals without resorting to mythology, why the fuck is religion hijacking morality everytime ?
Explained in the OP.
>>80280233
because they too stupid to make their own social contract. They need someone else to make it for them- god
You fucking niggers. Blaming shit on religion and the blaming it on the absence of one is the same fucking shit. Take personal responsibility and live a life according to YOU you fucks.
Look at the Asians. Strip all the bullshit about some fatfuck or spirits, you can live a completely moral life answerable not to a god, but to yourself.
Now go and meditate you faggots.
>>80280109
Thank you.
>>80275179
oh look another retard that can't understand semantics
>>80278547
>Pedophilia
The Catholic Church would have to disagree. Look at all those priests who molested little boys because they couldn't ever stick their dick into anything else.
>Rape
Crusades. Everything relating to the racial purges going on in africa. Women being raped and men murdered to 'breed out' a sect of people.
>Twisted Pornography
Have you ever even looked at the internet? Do you know where half of that stems from? Have you seen the shit that comes out of countries like Japan?
>Murder
Murder is Killing and Killing is Murder. Synonyms. And semantics. If one man kills another man in the name of his God, be it Allah, Buddha, or God, then it is murder for the sake of religion.
>Repression
Sexual. Physical. Monetary. Racial
>Racism Sexism
The fact that you don't think either of these are wrong says something more about you then anything else. Its says you love hate more then you love life.
Sad.
>Famine
What were the middle ages and everything going on in africa right now?
>Disease
The Black Death was caused by superstitious and religious fears of cats fostered by Religion and Sexism of Women in the form of accusations of Witchcraft. And that's only the biggest example to point to.
Very true about who decides who is a degenerate. Me? I decide when people are degenerate when they treat other people like prey animals. For their wealth, for their sex, for their well being, for their surrender of control.
>>80279820
>Yeah... no.
You're right, it wasn't just the Romans and the Greeks, it was also the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Persians, the Mesopotamians and the civilization around the Indus valley. These societies invented and developed civilization as we know it, from agriculture to religion, from ethics to architecture, from economics, to math, to self-contemplation, all before Jesus was even born. When looked at it from the perspective of the whole history of human civilization, Christianity is little more than an afterthought build on a foundation that had already been in place for millenia
>The thing fail to understand is that the Bible was written by and for white people (especially men).
No, it was written in Judah and Israel, by Jews and for Jews. Your holy book is as kosher as can possibly be. It's not my problem that that doesn't fit in your meme version of nazi Christianity.
>>80275033
I think the real issue comes from the fact that, like many other easily hate-able subcultures, there are two forms of atheists. 1) The kind that tells you, constantly. 2) The kind that doesn't.
I have been an atheist for years after having a southern Baptist upbringing (not a particularly strong one). The fact that I am an atheist doesn't really affect my day to day life. I don't get on social media and repost "witty" memes about how religion is evil, I don't care. I don't tell people I'm atheist, I don't try to bait them into trap discussions, it doesn't come up, because it's not relevant 99% of the time. When I look at money that says "in god we trust", I'm not triggered, why should I be? Who gives a fuck? I don't think I'm smarter than anyone because I have one narrow definitive belief, and someone else has another, there are countless other commonalities with people in lifestyle, experience and beliefs I can build a mutually beneficial relationship on instead of dividing due to one small one.
As far as morality, I see it as relative, and I live my life by the moral standards of the society I live in, because if I want to be a functional member of it, then I can't go around killing people, because according to the society I am in, that is "wrong". Easy enough, were I in a different situation I may react differently.
>>80275033
I agree with you. Atheists are fucking retarded.
Islam is the only logical (and red-pilled) stance.
>thinking you're smarter because you're from a superior Nordic paradise
>turns out your critical thinking ability is so low that you're actually religious
Man I laugh every time in these threads
>>80280297
The Bible is one of the worst offenders on the health and well being of humanity as a whole. It exists as a tool kit to control, repress, and guide people to a sheep-like behavior before some religious leader's shepherd's crook. And its name some of the worst atrocities the world has ever known have come about.
It has good guidelines. But no one listens to those anyway. Because everything those guidelines are merely handwaved away in favor of religious fervor, tyranny, and power.
But all Religions are to blame. Atheism is a denial of ALL religion. Not just the bible thumpers.
So all religions are to blame, not just Christianity.
>>80275033
>libcucks misuse atheism
>this means atheism is bad
Go fuck yourself ahmad you divisive shitposter.
>>80281308
Islam is the second worst offender on the planet, after the Bible Thumpers(Which you can put every religion that uses the bible as a holy book into one catagory).
Islam is just better at controlling its population through the fact that fear and intimidation are much easier to do on people who live in huts in the desert rather then big cities with alot of options.
>>80275033
>this thread again
>>80281604
That poster wasn't Liberal. That poster was Conservative to hell.
People using Liberal as a curse word when the person they are aiming it is so heavily conservative it isn't funny is a pathetic meme.
>>80281771
God permits evil so that a greater good can come from it
>Epicurus status
>BTFO
Christianity has adapted to fit the evolution of whatever the relativistic morality is of the day. It's a tool, a crutch people lean on to justify whatever they think. Your morality doesn't come from a book, it comes from your parents and your community. Sure, there may be some influence from the bible, but it's ultimately based on a societally-influenced interpretation of the bible that, in turn, influences individuals in future society. It isn't a straight line, it's a feedback loop.
>>80275033
We're animals, deal with it. WE DON'T HAVE MORALS. IT'S A FUCKING ILLUSION. DEAL WITH IT.
Besides, your country is 100% atheist wtf are you talking about?
>>80281968
so god cant create a greater good without evil?
is it because he is not willing or because he is not able?
>>80275033
Universal morality is a paradox.
>>80275598
No it's not you fucking retard. "I don't have a fucking clue" is the most viable response
>>80281004
>The Catholic Church would have to disagree. Look at all those priests who molested little boys because they couldn't ever stick their dick into anything else.
So the existence of a few pedophiles within the catholic church proves that catholicism condones pedophilia? Actually, that's not even what you said. You now you implied that catholicism has lead to pedophilia. How did you draw that conclusion? Because there are catholics who are pedophiles?
>Crusades.
Never heard of this. Do you have any evidence? I'm interested in reading about it.
>Everything relating to the racial purges going on in africa. Women being raped and men murdered to 'breed out' a sect of people.
Are you talking talking about black christians?
>Have you ever even looked at the internet? Do you know where half of that stems from?
Certainly not the Bible.
>Have you seen the shit that comes out of countries like Japan?
I have already said that there are degenerate religions.
>Murder is Killing and Killing is Murder.
There is a difference between murdering and killing.
>If one man kills another man in the name of his God, be it Allah, Buddha, or God, then it is murder for the sake of religion.
Yes, which is why you need an absolute standard to define these things. Christianity does (the Bible). When the taking of another human life is justified, it's killing. When it isn't, it's murder.
>Sexual. Physical. Monetary. Racial
Nothing wrong with sexual and monetary repression. In what way has it lead to physical and racial repression?
>The fact that you don't think either of these are wrong says something more about you then anything else. Its says you love hate more then you love life.
I love my own race and the word of God. Also, I never said that I hate women or other races. Sexism and racism is essentially just to acknowledge that there is a superior sex and a superior race. That's just a scientific and biblical fact.
Continuing.
>>80282239
>What were the middle ages and everything going on in africa right now?
So that was because of christianity? How?
>The Black Death was caused by superstitious and religious fears of cats fostered by Religion and Sexism of Women in the form of accusations of Witchcraft. And that's only the biggest example to point to.
And atheism has indirectly caused the increased prevalence of AIDS and other STDs.
>>80282239
There are no morals. We don't have any more morals than a fucking dog. We fuck, we eat, and we coexist. We invent rules in order to coexist. And weak minded people like yourself need those rules to be divine mandate because you're unable of taking responsibility for your actions. Fuck you.
I thought Nietzsche already debunked the myth of universal/normative morality a couple of centuries ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4vPoFRH8d0
>>80275598
Does God exist? It's a Yes or No question.
feels good to be Pagan.
>>80282585
>because you're unable of taking responsibility for your actions. Fuck you.
What actions should one be responsible for and why?
>>80275998
To what denomination do you belong?
>>80280233
abstract Costanza?
>>80283108
British Israelism (with a few deviations).
>>80282585
>projection
>autismal "There are no morals"
probably from the nigger end of spain
>>80275033
There are many people on /pol/ who are politically pro-Christianity.
But are personally atheist.
>>80275033
you know you can't just say "inb4 muh" to discredit an argument when you are factually invoking something that is victim to the slippery slope fallacy you fucking retard
>>80282239
So the existence of a few pedophiles within the catholic church proves that catholicism condones pedophilia? Actually, that's not even what you said. You now you implied that catholicism has lead to pedophilia. How did you draw that conclusion? Because there are catholics who are pedophiles?
Catholic priests are sexually repressed, idealoged, brainwashed drones with their own little power bases. When that sexual repression rebounds as it is natural for human sexuality to do, it can lead to deviant tastes and uncontrollable urges.
In order, The programming instilled on the religious order by the Catholic Church cause them to eventually become pedophiles.
Pedophilia is a learned behavior or a generated behavior. Brought about by either abuse or resulting of sexual repression rebounding into dark paths.
>There is a difference between murdering and killing.
Only to the semantic shaving hairs.
>So that was because of christianity? How?
Its because of religious wars going on between the tribes. Christians, Islamic, and the Atavistics all purging one another in the name of their beliefs. Islam is probably the biggest offender over there.
>And atheism has indirectly caused the increased prevalence of AIDS and other STDs.
You are correct, but also you can lay the blame there on religion as well, for the moral backlash against it. STDs and AIDS came about after the horrible decades of religious level oppression of the country and people rebounding against it and choosing Atheism or Agnosticism and fucking whoever they wanted.
STDs are also a result of the fact of human overpopulation leading to a fertile breeding ground for disease. So in effect, its a multi-part blame you can place there.
You're fun to debate with.
>>80275033
God doesn't care about you or me, get over it. Atheism is not your enemy, your true enemy is moral and spiritual decay, which is as evident in modern Christians as atheists or even Mohammedans. God is not necessary to live a moral life, God himself is incredible immoral and hypocritical so the idea that worshipping Him makes you more moral is insanity.
The fedoras are getting more abrasive in their language. They feel the ground beneath their feet is shaking
Relent not, brothers in Christ
>>80283744
>God himself is incredible immoral and hypocritical so the idea that worshipping Him makes you more moral is insanity.
The Holy Trinity is absolute justice, kindness, and truth personified
You're thinking of the Judaic God
>>80275033
Hope and faith are for weak beta faggots who need fairy tales to get through their days.
>>80283560
>Catholic priests are sexually repressed, idealoged, brainwashed drones with their own little power bases. When that sexual repression rebounds as it is natural for human sexuality to do, it can lead to deviant tastes and uncontrollable urges.
One could easily turn this around on atheism and the way it promote sexual liberation. Celibacy wouldn't be a problem if there weren't women who dressed like whores everywhere.
>Only to the semantic shaving hairs.
Well I guess we disagree.
>Its because of religious wars going on between the tribes. Christians, Islamic, and the Atavistics all purging one another in the name of their beliefs. Islam is probably the biggest offender over there.
And this lead to famine? It should have had the opposite effect.
>STDs and AIDS came about after the horrible decades of religious level oppression of the country and people rebounding against it and choosing Atheism or Agnosticism and fucking whoever they wanted.
Then why is AIDS so common in Africa and not Europe? Did we not also have this sexual repression?
>>80276617
> Atheism is simply a denial of the long held belief that there is something mystical about being upright, vertical, and intelligent.
It's amazing to me that atheists actually think that's a hood thing.
>hurf durr there's nothing special about human life!
>it's just chemical reactions brah like in a test tube!
>Why are you tipping yourbhat atme?
>Stop saying I have no sense of morality even though I literally just undermined all sense of human morality by implying a human life has no more value than a child's baking soda volcano science fair experiment!
Atheism is just another kike disease like communism.
>>80284715
A society needs hope and faith in order to survive
how sheltered are you?
>>80283744
>God doesn't care about you or me, get over it.
The Bible says otherwise.
>Atheism is not your enemy
Actually, that's exactly what it is. Heathens are just as much of a threat to western civilization as heretics.
>God is not necessary to live a moral life
No, but you need an absolute moral authority in order for anything to actually be morally right or wrong.
>God himself is incredible immoral and hypocritical so the idea that worshipping Him makes you more moral is insanity.
See pic-related.
Its not a good thing. Its yet another type of magical thinking.
Oblivion. Heaven. Hell. Does it all matter as long as you lived a good life?
>>80285103
Yes idiot those things are allegedly eternity
>>80275033
The very definition of redpilled is seeing things how they are, even if they are shitty.
Now religion is a useful tool as a set of values which combat degeneracy but people
>be me, atheistfag
>catholics, kiddyfiddlers
>islamics, also kiddyfiddlers
>hindus, one letter away from dindus and it shows
>buddhists, bro tier kebab removers who aren't even really religious, since they don't have a 'god' as other religions do
>sikhs, also bro tier
>atheists, 1 half cancer pseudo-vegans, 1 half just dudes who don't believe in shit because we weren't brought up to
>tfw the world is about 75% degenerate
>>80282692
Boy this dude says "indeed" a lot.
This wasn't even a good case against universal morality IMO. I honestly have no idea why this guy is so famous. Probably kike marketing.
I feel like he's implying that people really think it's immoral to feel proud or to win.. He has this idea what people or slaves think morality is but doesn't talk about what morality actually is.
>using the word normative
Tumblr detected.
>It's another Christcuck thread
You can not convince me that religion is a necessity to construct a moral and advanced society. Countries like Mexico are very religious and full of degeneracy, while atheist/non religious countries like Japan and Best Korea are nationalistic and almost degenerate free. A strong sense of nationalism can easily replace whatever is lost from a lack of religion. Having faith in one's country and people is far superior for society as a whole than having faith in a mythical deity from Iron Age fables.
>>80275033
False faith is degenerate
>>80285546
>while atheist/non religious countries like Japan and Best Korea are nationalistic and almost degenerate free
HA
Atheism is absolutely a religion. It isn't meaningless, it seeks to impose meaning on the machinery of nature. It wants to grow and expand technology, it wants to elevate human ideals and consciousness. Shit is thoroughly fucking mystical and spiritual.
>>80285514
>kike marketing
That would be ironic because a lot of what he said was used to justify nazism
>>80285546
Name me one fascist state that wasn't a failed state or that collapsed in a decade or so
Atheistic countries are a recent development. A nation without God cannot be a moral nation (see the morality of Best Korea when it comes to regard for human life)
>>80285546
>You can not convince me that religion is a necessity to construct a moral and advanced society.
See the OP. You can't have right and wrong without an absolute moral authority (i.e. God).
>Countries like Mexico are very religious and full of degeneracy
Not a white nation.
>while atheist/non religious countries like Japan and Best Korea are nationalistic and almost degenerate free.
Japan and Korea free of degeneracy? Are you actually being serious?
>A strong sense of nationalism can easily replace whatever is lost from a lack of religion.
Debatable. Nothing can replace the Bible however.
>Having faith in one's country and people is far superior for society as a whole than having faith in a mythical deity from Iron Age fables.
Is it just a coincidence that America was more prosperous with christianity compared to secularism?
>>80285514
I mean normative in terms of ethical philosophy. It's basically a kind of ethical theory that prescribes a specific set of moral values to be applied generally.
Slave and master morality refer mainly to their origins and not so much to the nature of the morality behind them. The point is that those are connected though.
Nietzsche's point was that all morality comes from a sense of self interest, be it the interests of the slave to subdue the master or the interests of the master to advance their own power.
I've always considered myself to be athiest/agnostic, teetering back and forth on the fence. However, thinking about the origins of right or wrong in world view I've realized I've always carried an underlying assumption of a higher purpose. That we as a species exist to progress toward stability and better living.
If you had asked me before this thread if that was God I would have said no, but you've made me question that OP. It surely bears all the traits of a higher power, at least in that I've always held it as an absolute pathway to a healthy and better life. Functionally I would call this religious, though very much within the bounds of agnosticism as I don't pretend to know the face or name. This at least shatters my notion that my morality is innate, but is instead informed by a semblance of religiosity.
Thanks for making me reflect, OP. Good shit.
>>80285941
I thought Atheism was "just a lack of faith"
>>80285898
Japan's crime rate is super low.
Little kids can walk to school alone without having a nigger mugging them.
The only thing that can be called "degenerate" is their porn.
>>80286097
>that didn't* collapse
>>80286299
depends, fellow bong. pseudo vegans going HAAAAAA FAIRYTALES when people offer prayers to the recently deceased like assholes in one type, and the other is what you said
>>80275033
Nice b8.
>>80286299
Naw dawg, atheism is a religion with Man at the center.
>>80286475
Why should an atheist avoid being an asshole though? There's nothing but his aleatory whims to stop him
>>80275033
>No, no, atheism is good! Be rational goys... guys.
>>80286679
New Atheism maybe, in that it incorporates [secular] humanism
>>80286767
....just being a nice person without being forced to? Is this really a foreign concept to people?
>>80286416
How does Japan encourage living a moral life without religion?
Also a pure culture with degenerate porn sounds amazing. I wonder if it's the result of repressing all their deviant and perverted feelings so hard
>>80285016
> Muh Bible
bullshit written by fallible men, many edits and translations, utterly unreliable as a source as to the nature of God.
Atheism IS western civilisation friend, if you want dogmatic worship without any sane human element I suggest you convert to Islam like that rest of your degenerate country.
I will accept no moral authority but my own, if God himself stood before me I would not accept him, he is a failure pure and simple. This world belongs to Man now.
>>80286970
I've never met a nice atheist. Where are these unicorns hiding?
>>80287001
Shame based culture, and shaming ancestors with whom you will live forever.
>>80286970
>Is this really a foreign concept to people?
YES
E
S
By God it is a foreign concept to the great majority of people today, and in all the previous times since the birth of humanity
>just being a nice person without being forced to?
This changes whimsically for the atheist, and chaotically, depending on the circumstance
Make an amoral person angry, and he has no principles to stop him from hurting you
>>80287001
>How does Japan encourage living a moral life without religion?
Common sense?
You don't need a god to tell you that helping an old lady cross the street is a good thing and you will be rewarded for it.
>>80286118
>See the OP. You can't have right and wrong without an absolute moral authority (i.e. God).
That's only true if you are a sociopath. If you need to believe in some magical man who loves you to keep you from acting like a degenerate, then you are a fucking faggot.
>Not a white nation.
The whiter nations in Latin America are also religious and degenerate.
>Japan and Korea free of degeneracy? Are you actually being serious?
No country is free of degeneracy.
>Debatable. Nothing can replace the Bible however.
Why? Because your parents raised you to believe in it?
>Is it just a coincidence that America was more prosperous with Christianity compared to secularism?
America has always been secular. Separation of church and state.
>>80286970
There's a lot of situations that aren't so black and white though
>If I don't do this my family will starve
>Shoplifting doesn't really hurt anyone, who cares about a big corporation
>>80284226
I understand and accept the sentiment brother, but Christ himself said we exist only to serve the Chosen People, and I would rather forge my own way. Our world, and the Christian world, is Unjust, Unkind, and False on every level, what is the legacy of Christ now but degeneracy and submission?
>It all stems from the fact that atheism is incompatible with moral universalism
What? How? There are many philosophical foundations of universal morality that don't rely on belief.
For example, as a non-believer I have a Schopenhauerean appreciation of the christianic moral teachings and try to follow them as closely as possible. What does that make me?
Theism doesn't rule out degeneracy nor does this or that view on objective morality. Islamic doctrine is morally absolute yet still degenerate in my eyes. Atheism might be potentially dangerous but broadly speaking so is religious belief. So if your intent was to support belief in general as opposed to Christianity in particular, then you'll have to offer another explanation.
The fact that many shitheads' lack of belief creates a moral vacuum in their heads can't be used to discredit atheism.
That's equivalent to blaming the knife when someone manages to stab themselves. It just speaks volumes about the power and significance of religion when it comes to the masses and our prosperity, in which case religion is admittedly invaluable.
>>80286092
(((Nazis)))
>>80286193
Then how is this an argument against moral normativity? It sounds like he is normatizing morality through slave/master morality is he not?
>>80286416
Most Japanese engage in prayer and worship.
>>80287457
Cut the rhetorics and give me some sources dutch mate
>but Christ himself said we exist only to serve the Chosen People
Start here
>>80287166
well the thing is. The nice atheists, read: those who just don't have a belief system, tend to not announce it because it isn't significant to them. Unless you asked them directly, they wouldn't say :/
>>80287166
I'm a nice atheist
I donate money and time to those that need it. I work hard and earn my money. I don't steal or wish bad things happen to people. I live and let live, without professing to know better and keep my beliefs to myself. I keep a nice garden and appreciate nature in many other ways. I treat people and animals responsibly and with respect.
I think the reason why you don't hear about us is because we're a quiet arm of atheism. We're not pushing an agenda so you don't really see us around...
>>80287844
>who "just" don't have a belief system
See >>80287290
>>80287114
>I will accept no moral authority but my own, if God himself stood before me I would not accept him, he is a failure pure and simple. This world belongs to Man now.
Pic-related.
>bullshit written by fallible men, many edits and translations, utterly unreliable as a source as to the nature of God.
I agree to some extent. This is one of the problems I have. Ultimately we can never know if we're following the correct translation or not (or Bible even). However, that's where faith kicks in. I do believe that the KJV is a good source for the word of God if you ask God for wisdom whilst reading it.
>Atheism IS western civilisation friend, if you want dogmatic worship without any sane human element I suggest you convert to Islam like that rest of your degenerate country.
Atheism isn't. Also, science is dogmatic as well since it's fundamentally based on the presupposition that materialism is real. Read about epistemological solipsism and you'll understand what I'm talking about.
>>80287699
No. There's a difference between descriptive and prescriptive morality.
He described both slave and master morality but he was only prescribing master morality as a desirable option. It's not normative however because master morality is essentially just a refined form of moral relativism.
>>80288250
How can you "prescribe morality" and still be a relativist?
Is this doublethink?
>>80275033
Christianity is nature hating, communism.
>>80287290
I am a person who doesn't get their morality from a religion. just because I don't have my morals set out for me in a book doesn't mean they don't exist. I wouldn't attack someone just because they made me angry. Same for my atheist friends.
>>80287433
How far does religious morality stretch? A christian whose children are starving could easily steal and pray for forgiveness. Not much different
>>80288486
>communism
Matthew 25:14-30
>>80287329
>That's only true if you are a sociopath. If you need to believe in some magical man who loves you to keep you from acting like a degenerate, then you are a fucking faggot.
Already explained in the OP.
>The whiter nations in Latin America are also religious and degenerate.
Still not white.
>No country is free of degeneracy.
There not even close to being "degenerate free".
>Why? Because your parents raised you to believe in it?
I'm from Sweden (one of the most secular countries on the planet). I've grown up surrounded by atheists and atheistic ideals.
>America has always been secular. Separation of church and state.
America is not the government, but the people.
>>80281891
>you really think people would do that? Just go on the internet and post lies?
>>80288468
If you're prescribing relativism.
>>80288682
Why shouldn't one attack someone for angering him?
>>80288729
They are*
>>80288879
That's absurd. On what authority?
>>80288906
Social contracts
You dont need god to tell you those
>>80287662
Not knowledgeable enough to respond to your post. Will read up about Schopenhauerean appreciation of the christianic moral teachings.
>>80289022
Moral relativism is a necessary component of becoming Ubermensch.
>>80275033
I used to be a diehard Catholic, but I can no longer believe in a God. I really wish I could, and I wish I was still Catholic.
Religion is not a choice 100% of the time. Perhaps the reason to be religious and to believe is there, but I simply cannot comprehend it. I've read a lot of "proofs of God," and other related writings, but I am unable to believe. A world with universal morality sounds lovely, but it seems a bit too ridiculous to me to fight for something I cannot even believe in the existence of.
What do?
>>80289251
What if one doesn't care about social contracts?
>>80288682
Yes but it would still be wrong, your asking for forgiveness doesn't justify what you did. If you premeditated asking for forgiveness, you obviously won't be genuine in asking and it's not like you can hide that from god.
What I get stuck on when it comes to the topic of morality is when people refer to objective morality as if the definition of morality doesn't imply it to be subjective.
We can only determine what is right or wrong according to perceived truths, or objective facts. It comes down to recognizing something as "preferable." Perhaps that's why it's somewhat human nature to believe in an ultimate "truth," something like God, without actually rationally coming to this conclusion.
And when you combine this observation with seeing all these atheists running around spouting "I hate everyone," it just makes me think that maybe they truly don't believe in their perceptions or truths. They don't believe in that, so how can they believe in the good of another human being? Holy shit....
So universalism is just a big fucking coin-flip of experiences and definitions. Fuck me
>>80288232
>science is dogmatic as well since it's fundamentally based on the presupposition that materialism is real
Man no. Science can't be dogmatic in that sense because science is asking questions about the material world. Its has a "material" method because this is frankly the only way to answer these questions. What you probably meant to say is that positivism is dogmatic.
Objectively, atheism is as wrong and destructive as communism, sexual revolution and "free love" and the introduction of recreational drugs.
Always sounds good on paper, always has entire nations and generations utterly cannibalize each other.
Subjectively, as insufferable Atheists can be, I wholeheartedly believe they are one good barbeque and a relationship away from accepting Jesus.
Male Atheists are usually people who have had hard knocks in life and feel bitter about the chaotic and unfair world and life around them, and female atheists are usually people who follow the trends and think sleeping around and partying is the only way they can find happiness and feel good about themselves.
The ultimate irony is that both types can find comfort and support from Christians, especially Christians who lead the same lives, but unfortunately, there is always the chance they get a bad impression from a Christian and only justify their opinion further.
>>80289377
>*cringe*
Why should one become super-Human? What's wrong with being human?
>this thread again
>>80289385
Start thinking about how anything ever came into existence in the first place.
>>80289461
Then you surpassed your instincts and Nietzsche would be proud
>>80275033
>morals are real
>they aren't subjective to each individual at a given time
okay faggot
>>80289461
Then you wont have any, and other people will be allowed punish you.
>>80289489
>What you probably meant to say is that positivism is dogmatic.
You're right.
>>80289620
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxiKqA-u8y4
>>80289489
Science isn't itself dogmatic. Firm belief that Science offers truth is dogmatic, and by its own standards, delusional
>>80281891
Didn't even call him a liberal you fucking retarded ape. Are you even trying with your shitposts, reddit?
>>80289698
Only if I'd be exposed publicly
>>80289377
Ah yes, the Übermensch
The Stockholm Syndrome philosophy, "I can sit at home and smoke all day, this is above those other Christians and MY ideal man!"
>>80289965
Nicely said. The language barrier can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.
>>80280297
(((My flavor is better than your flavor)))
Get out of here you fucking jew lover.
>>80290124
yes thats why they called -social-
You had no need in morality if it had no effect on other people.
It's all subjective man. I've actually found deeper gratitude for life since I've let go of religion and I believe it's even made me a much better person. Now I help others because I love life and genuinely want to help and not because I'm just seeking approval from a mysterious creator.
I'm not even atheist, I just don't put religion first in life anymore. And hey if there is a God when I die then cool but I'm not going to sacrifice my one chance at fully experiencing life to worship a character I have no proof of.
>>80289946
>Channel name: The School of Life
>Channel founder: Alain de Botton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_de_Botton#Early_life_and_family
>He was born in Zurich, the son of Jacqueline (born Burgauer) and Gilbert de Botton, who was born in Alexandria, Egypt and expelled (along with the rest of the Jewish community) under Nasser.
No thank you
>>80290228
>Jew lover
Maybe you didn't know this, but British Israelism and Christian Identity are even bigger jew haters than nazis.
>>80289965
>Firm belief that Science offers truth is dogmatic, and by its own standards, delusional
>>80290530
people who adhere to*
>>80290488
It's just a good short video on Nietzsche's theory. If you want to know it in detail then just look up anything by or about Nietzsche and his theory.
I g2g now though.
>>80290205
No probs, member of fellow nation with Christian symbolism in their flags
>>80275033
Atheism has nothing to do with LGBT at all. You're just applying shit to atheism when it's a broad term that you can apply a lot of shit to. Atheism doesn't enable "moral universalism" certain religions just restrict.
/thread
>>80281756
Control is what makes them them. If Christians believed in their religion as strongly as the the muslims we wouldn't be seeing this obvious take over of Europe. Religion works to unite people in ways atheists cant.
>muh moral decay
There is nothing happening today that has not been happening for thousands of years. Atheists have existed as long as theists have existed.
>>80290698
Nietzsche was my hero when I was around around 16. You grow out of it
>>80289965
Science officers answers to questions we didn't have in the past. While science hasn't, and possibly will never answer certain questions, I'm not going to sit here and accept a man made religions word on an afterlife and their view of a god just because of that.
>>80290386
I can have an effect on a singular person, without the rest of society finding out
What's there to stop me, if I were an amoral person, to act purely upon my impulses
Atheism has nothing to do with LGBT at all. You're just applying shit to atheism when it's a broad term that you can apply a lot of shit to. Atheism doesn't enable "moral universalism" certain religions just restrict it.
/thread
>>80290579
Read about it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_realism
It's a philosophy just like any other
>>80278019
>Religion causes sexism and racism.
Do you know where you are?
>>80290985
Nor should you. You should accept Christianity as a system of absolute morality, not as an epistemology
>>80275033
Your argument is based on the assumption that atheist can't learn from the Bible, while believing that what the bible has to say about an afterlife and heaven is false. Your argument is based on the assumption that atheist will disregard all of the things we learned from religion and laws etc. and allow for shit like pedophilia and bestially to occur regularly. Therefore, your argument is heavily flawed.
>>80291519
wait you can believe in the golden rule without believing in the bible? yikes
>>80291519
>You believe X,
>therefore you're wrong
>>80288721
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism
Christian communists hold the Biblical verse Acts 4:32-35 as evidence that the first Christians lived in a communist society. Acts 4:32-35 reads, "All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. And Gods grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need." [1] Other biblical evidence of anti-capitalistic belief systems include Matthew 6:24, "No one can serve two masters.Either you will hate the one and love the other or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other.You cannot serve both God and money."[2][improper synthesis?] Also, "each according to his abilities" has Biblical origins too. Act 11:29 states: "29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea." And "To each according to his needs" is Biblical, too. Acts 4:35 "to the emissaries to distribute to each according to his need."
Reminder that (((Christianity))) is the fastest growing religion in communist countries. The Orthodoxy of Russia was totally supported by the communists. They only purged Christians loyal to the Tzar.
>>80291344
Religion has great moral teachings, however, I dislike the fact that people would go to great lengths to enforce stuff in the bible or the quran that they probably know is wrong, in the name of their god, and being righteous.
>>80291010
If you believe in god you are not commiting a immoral crime because you might get punished by god.
If you believe in social contracts you are not commiting a immoral crime because other people may also commit such crime against you.
ill say you need realy high intelligent to understand that you breaking a social contract may cause other people to break the social contracts and it might have effect on you.
Low intelligent humans that wont be able to accapt the social contract will most likey die or get punished by other people and it will make a natural selection.
>>80287773
From the Gospel of Matthew
21 And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.
So we must be content with the crumbs while Jews eat the bread? On Earth as in the house of the Lord?
>>80291859
Uh oh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR_anti-religious_campaign_(1928%E2%80%9341)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists
>>80291859
This is incoherent nonsense. Soviet Communism went through several different phases in its relationship to Christianity; most were existentially hostile, and the only less than genocidal ones were contingent on a massive outside threat and a thoroughly neutered "church" staffed by KGB agents.
>>80292122
Religious beliefs and practices persisted among the majority of the population,[4] in the domestic and private spheres but also in the scattered public spaces allowed by a state that recognized its failure to eradicate religion and the political dangers of an unrelenting culture war.[2][9]
There was an initial wave of fedora tipping post revolution, but afterwards Christianity was allowed to exit openly.
>>80291932
>I dislike the fact that people would go to great lengths to enforce stuff in the bible or the quran that they probably know is wrong, in the name of their god, and being righteous.
People who would do those things usually believe they're right
>>80282213
You either believe it or you don't - it's a binary choice. Belief is not the same as knowledge.
>>80292415
Yes, they do believe they're right. Right in the sense that it's what their god wants.
>>80292393
If by openly you mean having its top clergy infiltrated by the Secret Services and its dissidents imprisoned and forced to eat shit from the glass that's used to give Communion, then yeah, it was allowed to exist openly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pite%C8%99ti_prison#Stages_of_.22reeducation.22
The vast majority of people are morons that can't handle knowledge and make bad decisions with knowledge. There is a grain of wisdom to the biblical tree of knowledge being forbidden. Because your monkey brain can't handle trufacts and you easily make the wrong decision if you try to base your decisions on facts and logic. There is primitive wisdom in your instincts that a lot of asshats would be better off defaulting to.
Lacking faith is the correct position, so the same mechanism that makes them scared of terrorists and false rape accusations did atheists a solid here. But you aren't brilliant if you've realised there is no valid reason to believe in god(s). If the biggest intellectual hurdle you've overcome is abandoning your faith, you are not smart. You are likely still religious, being paranoid about truth and lies. Because religion has taught you that the truth is important. Very important. You have to figure it out. Have to. On some level you still believe in a hell that wrong people end up in.
I partially agree with the OP. Not that we need universal morality. But a lot of atheists would be better off acting as if there was. Because the sudden realisation that the majority of people are wrong gives little shitheads an inflated ego and suddenly everything is up for debate, everything needs to be justified specifically to them. But other people are morons following instincts and inherited heuristics that they can't satisfyingly justify. So what? It is also incorrect to assume that this therefore means they are wrong.
And before anyone says it, no, the things I said don't apply to me as much as they likely apply to you. Because I am actually smart. Fuck you, don't give me no Dunning-Kruger or pseudo intellectual internet maymays your brain uncritically absorbed. Your data also says there is a subset of smart people who also don't succumb to false modesty. I'll just assert that I am one of them.
>>80287927
>A FUCKING LEAF
>>80292647
If the Holy Scripture that you're following is just, then fundamentally sticking to it should be a non-issue
The Koran is a barbaric document
The Bible is not
>>80292105
No, you just don't know what the fuck was going on.
Jesus had just cast a demon out of a man who was deaf, dumb and blind. It was a sign to the pharisees that He was the messiah, as they reckoned that only the messiah could cast a demon from a deaf, dumb and blind man. (i.e., no way to know what the demon's name was, so no way to cast it out. Jewish nonsense.)
So when Jesus did that, instead of hailing Him as their messiah, they said that He did the work of Beelzebub, a demon. And instead of pushing them into damnation, Jesus said He would not show them any more signs that He was the messiah, only the sign of Jonah. Dead in the belly of the beast for three days, and then raised from the dead.
So when this woman came to Jesus, He could not do what she wanted as first phrased, as He would not show the pharisees another sign. As they made it more and more personal, and finally just as a personal favor to her for her daughter's sake, Jesus instantly performed the miracle.
There's always more to the scriptures than you think there is. Jesus calling the woman an puppy was not the horrific insult you think it was. And her reply was quite clever.
>>80275033
desu I am not quite comfortable with the idea that the only thing stopping christcucks from murdering people is because muh bibble says so
>>80275033
This is such low effort bullshit.
Christianity is just as compatible with relativism as anything else. Religious people the world over have very different ideas of right and wrong, and many if not most of them are obvious moral catastrophes.
Atheism is just as compatible with moral realism as anything else. Atheism is literally ONLY the lack of belief or disbelief in God. It says nothing at all about anything else AT ALL.
Get your head of your ass, you knuckledragging chucklefuck.
>>80292647
Many people suffer from moral narcissism; global warming idiots, anti-smoking zealots, muslims, Obama.
They're very dangerous people.
>>80291978
Like I said, social contracts would work only if society would be finding out whether or not I've kept it properly
Social contracts cannot affect a person who murders without his crime ever being discovered
>>80292834
>a burger that can't accept people for who they are
>>80293260
The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is a pretty good preventative to murder.
Look at the Arab world. They do not condemn raping boys because the quran does not specifically forbid it. That's the group of people who pay attention to those kind of details, to see what they can get away with.
>>80293344
Without God, there is no objective basis for morality.
Atheists basically steal Judeo-Christian morality and claim that society made it up.
>>80293460
I erased two posts in favor of that one. Maybe I should have erased three. My bad.
>>80293689
Have a good day, man
>>80293617
With God, there is still no objective basis for morality. Without God, there still may or may not be an objective basis for morality. In either case, it is literally impossible to have an objective stance from which to find said objective basis for morality. Are you really this obtuse?
>>80293617
Society did make it up though. Religion was made by very smart philosophers who used the an enforcer, a god, and the fear of a hell/promise of a heaven to enforce the ideologies. So yes, society did make it up.
>>80292105
The first stage of Christianity was to spread to the Jews. Afterwards it came to supersede Judaism
Romans 10:12-13;
Romans 10:16-21
>>80292816
Funny how Christian countries kind of all killed themselves off in massive wars, which they never stop circle jerking over. They gave all money lending power to Jews, and gave them protected legal status so they could usurp the host population. Many interpretations of the Bible actually make Christians subservient to Jews. I don't have faith that Christianity is good for a country's long term success.
Kinda makes you wonder if the whole thing wasn't one big Jew scheme from the begging.
>>80284771
Atheism is a lack of belief in god not a political ideology. There's a fuck tonne of atheists that completely disagree with women's sexual liberation. I truly don't get why people link atheism with leftist ideology. Leftism is shit but Jesus fucking Christ please don't link that shit with atheism
>>80293617
Also
>Atheists basically steal Judeo-Christian morality and claim that society made it up.
Not a chance. Atheists have all sorts of different moral codes. Some of them are better than others. Few of them are as arbitrary and unhelpful as Judeo-Christian ethics.
>>80294321
What kinds of morals do atheists believe in?
>>80294588
Which atheists? That's not even a coherent question. That's like asking what kind of politics Europeans believe in.
>Its another 'Christcucks fling bible quotes and fallacies at atheists' episode.
Can't you fags just leave us alone? We literally do nothing to you, yet you still provoke and insult us like its some kind of holy war.
>>80295378
The ones who "just lack the belief in God", and absolutely nothing else
You for instance
>>80275033
Based Swede bringing the truth.
The role of atheism in degenerating society in the late 20th century is clear as day. I say this as an atheist. People are unable to confront the harsh reality of what their belief system leads to. It's why I can never promote atheism, and will defend Christianity and theism at every step possible.
>>80295879
>Im not a christian or theist but my belief is what is fucking up society.
No, you're either a cuck, or a christfag in disguise.
The word atheism has been taken over by leftist who want to be 'different' and 'new'.
>>80296229
A word that means nothing can easily be taken over by anyone
>>80295855
That's still incredibly broad and borderline meaningless. You're acting as if atheism implies anything other than the lack of or disbelief in God. It doesn't. If someone is an atheist and they don't believe in objective morals, they are an atheist AND something else. The lack of belief in objective morals is wholly unrelated to atheism.
I'm a bad example because I'm a noncognitivist. But there are plenty of atheists who are moral realists.
>>80296418
Atheism is the lack of belief in a higher being or diety.
I don't need to associate myself with labels anyways, Whats so hard to understand that I don't believe in god? How is a belief that only 1% of the population accepts a determent to society?
>>80292637
It's not really. True atheism is convincing yourself that you are absolutely certain there is no god. Agnosticism is leaning towards towards not being convinced due to things like so many different religions all claiming at once that they are the true faith, but still keeping in mind that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
>>80275033
If a human is only kind or a good person because they fear an abstract punishment system, this does not make them a good person, it makes them a sociopath scared into pretending he's not.
Which explains a lot of human behavior, actually...
>>80297011
I've asked you what your morals are and why you believe you should keep to them
>>80297026
It depends on what you mean by atheism. For most of history, atheism meant the explicit belief that there was no God. For the last hundred years or so, most self described atheists simply lack the belief in God.
Agnosticism is an epistemic position rather than a metaphysical one. The popular conception now is that it is possible to be an agnostic atheist, a gnostic atheist, an agnostic theist, or a gnostic theist. I think this is a bit silly and pedantic, but it is a well known conception.
>>80290530
Good thing that you love your enemies :^)
>>80297193
How can you fake not being a sociopath so convincingly that you are indistinguishable from not being one?
Christianity is a cure to amorality, not a continuation of it
>>80275598
No, I don't "believe" it, but I'm still unsure as to whether or not it is the case. Why is this difficult to understand?
>>80297290
>Lol dude what are your morals if you dont believe in god?
Maybe because I dont want to spend my life in jail? Or maybe because its called empathy aka basic human emotions?
Believe me, if i could kill nogs on the street, id do it.
>>80297290
I personally believe that humans should improve ourselves and the universe around us by being decent and moral creatures to each other and the world around us. I don't believe this because a 'higher power' told me so, but because of the promise of a better tomorrow. Even if we don't find a meaning for us being here, the simple reality of 'being' itself is incredible, and makes suffering seem even more pointless, we should at least have a pleasurable fleeting existence before the void claims us again. I believe we as a species should strive to help everyone we find to enjoy this world, be it through simple enjoyment or to gain a deeper understanding of it.
Sorry for the ramble.
>>80297566
Refers to white people who are my enemies, not other races, and certainly not jews.
Jews are the descendants of Cain, and Cain was the spawn of Satan.
>>80275033
>Who is right? What society? Not to mention that it's irrational and quite frankly intellectually dishonest to assume that there is an ultimate standard of right and wrong that supersedes mere fanciful "ideas" about what is right and wrong at a given time in our ethical evolution
Yes, that's why I don't "believe" in the Bible. It's entirely a product of a certain time and a certain people. You can't argue for moral objectivism sitting on a fucking thousand year old book. In the end what went into it is completely arbritrary. Unless of course you genuinely believe that God posessed not only the people that wrote the Bible but also everyone involved in translating, editing and copying (by hand and machine) over millenia, in which case you are crazy cuckoo and we don't need to discuss things further.
I'm not saying the Bible proposes a bad set of beliefs (when most people can't even follow it closely), it's just a badly written book plagued by anachronism and contradictions, which gives too much space for interpretation (look what good that does to the Quran). The only way to possibly reach and truly understand moral universalism is through philosophy, which is what the truly religious people, including Jesus, have always done.
>>80297877
Are your random basic human fits of empathy and near-constant fear of prison and punishment morality?
>>80297922
>just have fun* and be nice** lol ya gonna die anyway XDDD
*"pleasurable existence"
**"be decent and moral creatures to each other and the world around us"
Boring
>>80298162
South America is pretty much an amalgamation of Papal states. The bible is a hierarchical structural society codified with serious embellishment - 800 year old men, creation and revelations. The Korn is like holy war and holy rape codified. It's safe to say religion being replaced for the most part by science has left a vacuum for the occult to move in. Nothing makes this more obvious than when Catholicism is introduced to tribal cultures like what happened in South America and Africa. The ole Church of England didn't even try assimilation or at most it was voluntary. Hard to say where it's all going but I hope not another dark age.
>>80298612
Do you not find following the bible boring then? It's basically the same principle, it's just from a different source.
>>80275033
That image represents nihilism you dolt
>>80298971
The Bible doesn't promote pacifism.
Nope, its called being human.
Its been drilled into your head since day 1 that killing, stealing, and cursing is bad.
Being the good little boy you are, you just nod your head and say yes, never questioning it or even giving it a second thought.
So of course you would automatically think; Well, since I don't have any desire to kill people or do any wrongs, its obvious that this is something divine related!
>>80276617
No shit. The conversation is not about what atheism is, but what its effects have been.
>>80298971
>following the Bible
>following God
The Bible is merely the guide to God's absoluteness
It's exhaustive only in a moral sense, not in an epistemological one
>>80299070
Atheism in practice leads to nihilism and/ or to lying to yourself that it doesn't (existentialism)
>>80298778
I recognize and praise the stability the Bible has given to many societies, specially after reformation, which shows the people involved in writing and editing it were really good sociological thinkers. And that's as far of a judgement as I can make, as Muhammed was also a good sociological thinker, except he build a belief system that reinforced the aggressive expansion of his ideas.
I'm just saying that if you are arguing for moral objectivism through mainly the Bible, frankly you have no clue about what you are talking. The Bible is just a tiny fraction of the path to finding God (or the absence of it) that is the entirety of human knowledge.
>>80275033
People dont actually acknowledge this, but you can still enforce morals without actually believing in god. You know, men wrote the fricking bible, along with the rest of the so called "holy scriptures" and the rules enforced there, such as altruism, "thou shall not steal", etc, are what makes possible for us to live in society.
I dont believe that the universe was the creation of an almighty space jew and Im not scared of my mortality so I dont need paradise or the reincarnation or whatever.
>>80300074
>The Bible is just a tiny fraction of the path to finding God (or the absence of it) that is the entirety of human knowledge.
You assume that only human knowledge can exist from the get go
See >>80298677
If you stick to that, our positions are completely irreconcilable
>>80300120
Assuming that those men who wrote the Bible weren't under the guidance of God
>>80300671
Divine intervention is a very good tactic to gain legitimacy among the most ignorant of peers. Its alot easier to say that "it is God's will" rather to just be honest about it. Thats how most kings justified their position, along with the scare factor.
>>80301009
I am honest about it. That is what I sincerely believe
>>80301009
Btw, christianity (specially the catholic church) is pretty much the cult of /r9k/ were women are the encarnation of temptation (some got burned at the stake for witchcraft) and sexual deviant behaviour is condemned (those bastards are having too much fun, lets nail them!).
Im a robot myself, I like the church lol. But then, so is OP and a great deal of people from the american GOP establishment.
>and remember, God wills it.. lol
>>80275033
Agnostic Christianity is the only answer, for it resolves the contradiction and reconciles science and religion.
There is no evidence of the existance of God, it is unknowable, but we can choose to believe in Him anyway. That is what makes the act of belief and the leap of faith valuable: You are taking a chance.
Science and Religion need not be enemies.
They can coexist and enrich each other. Science is the investigation of a miracle we cannot fully explain and Religion is the interpretation of that miracle.
>“It isn't Narnia, you know," sobbed Lucy. "It's you. We shan't meet you there. And how can we live, never meeting you?"
>"But you shall meet me, dear one," said Aslan.
>"Are -are you there too, Sir?" said Edmund.
>"I am," said Aslan. "But there I have another name. You must learn to know me by that name. This was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there.”
>― C.S. Lewis, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
>>80301473
Was that supposed to mean anything?
It's an ad hominem to conclude that it does
>>80300453
I'll believe anything that can be put into words and still make sense. That takes into account both scientific explanations and theological discourse. I consider it a wide enough criteria to base my beliefs in, it's not a matter of "prove it to me in a controlled scientific experiment", you just have to articulate it well enough. I've read plenty of good arguments from both sides that make me (at least so far) unable to enact an absolute judgement on theism/atheism. However, I clearly side with agnosticism, rather than gnosticism (rejecting the material world), so I'm not inclined in believing in arguments that involve "faith", maybe in that our positions are completely irreconcilable.
>>80300671
Not only the men who wrote it, but also who edited, safeguarded, translated and copied the Bible over millenia. When it comes to matters like this, I choose to stand with the most plausible (that these people were just men), without ruling out entirely the other possibility, however improbable it might be.
>>80301511
Agnostic Christianity is the only rational Christianity
Traditional Christianity is the only sane Christianity
>>80301901
>I'll believe anything that can be put into words and still make sense.
>That takes into account both scientific explanations and theological discourse.
God cannot be put into words, except inasmuch as He will it
>However, I clearly side with agnosticism, rather than gnosticism (rejecting the material world),
Agnosticism/ gnosticism have nothing inherently to do with rejecting or accepting materialism
>so I'm not inclined in believing in arguments that involve "faith", maybe in that our positions are completely irreconcilable.
You are, without even realising it. Whenever you construct an argument, you are operating on faith-based assumptions: That is, the unprovable axioms that make the very construction of that argument believably possible
>>80300671
>When it comes to matters like this, I choose to stand with the most plausible (that these people were just men), without ruling out entirely the other possibility, however improbable it might be.
How are you calculating this plausibility?
Yeah, I literally don't understand why all atheists don't just fucking off themselves. There is literally no purpose in life and no reason to keep living from their point of view.
>>80275670
The Pope is a fag illuminati lucefarian...
Lol, I didn't know that there were so many christfags on /pol/. Seems like a lot of people on here like to suck on Jesus' dick.
>>80279332
You can't prove a negative.
If I have never seen evidence for a thing, I believe it does not exist. I don't just walk around believing that every possible imaginable thing exists up until the moment that I see definitive proof otherwise. That argument is so retarded.
>>80306376
>You can't prove a negative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof#Proving_a_negative
>>80306719
>Conveniently ignores the second comment
>>80307264
The second part of your argument is just being content with staying ignorant of all that you may not know
>>80307696
Oh, I'm just 'content' and 'ignorant' am I?
Please provide the evidence for theism that I I'm too lazy and stupid to have seen, then.
>>80302630
>God cannot be put into words, except inasmuch as He will it.
I don't care about it then. If that's true and I cannot comprehend God, then believing or not in Him becomes a trivial matter and every waking hour spent thinking about it is futile. We'd all be floating according to His will. The Bible could possibly mean nothing at all. Who's to tell what is His true will? Who's to tell who is speaking for Him? Surely you can't go on just believing anyone that simply points out your logic, you'd be overrun by contradictions in no time.
Therefore, I reject this notion entirely. Not only because living in human society with your back against human logic is not advisable, it's because the existence of such a God would mean our present existence is meaningless. So to not die of boredom or existential despair, I take it that as long as men can discuss moral objectivism, there's a path to achieve it and that life has at least this one single purpose.
>Agnosticism/ gnosticism have nothing inherently to do with rejecting or accepting materialism
I'm sorry, I meant gnosis in place of gnosticism. To not rely too much on semantics, I'm calling gnosis "the kind of spiritual-based knowledge that detaches itself from the constraints of existence and validates the line of thinking that accepts what cannot be proven or understood fully".
>unprovable axioms
There are two kinds of unprovable axioms: those called readily apparent (for instance the angles formed by a line intersecting two parallel lines are the same) which manifest itself in reality; and those who are not readily apparent because they do not manifest itself in reality. If it's readily apparent, I have no problem relying on it, as it makes sense even if it can't be proven.
Faith is tricky though. It's not readily apparent, but that's not enough, we knew how to breath long before we understood what air is. The problem I have with faith is it breaks the logic system I rely on to validate my existence.
>>80308055
Stop relying on other people to provide you with evidence and start seeking it by yourself again
>>80275863
>>80275033
Why do you faggots even exist. You are backwards morons and always will be.
>>80282239
>of a few pedophiles
>a few pedophiles
Il take extreme understatement of the year for 500 alex
>>80308326
Okay so you want me to go and search for evidence to disprove my own claim?
How about YOU argue your points, and stop relying on me to disprove my own position?
That's incredibly disingenuous mate, and you have no idea what 'seeking' I have or have not done.
Just lazy, weak arguing. You're sounding like the ignorant one here.
>>80282186
No response. Well said, friend.
