ow do Christians here feel about immigration and usury?
The Orthodox Church has spoken out on these issues
26th of June, 2016
On immigration
>Such an important aspect of modern life like mass migration is not left unattended. Unlike the Catholic approach that unduly favors migrants, particularly in Europe, the Orthodox notices the negative nature of the process, as well as the fact that it leads to confrontation of different identities and value systems. In addition, the Orthodox Church propose to look at the roots of this phenomenon. The reason for the migration is the liberal, hedonistic ideology bleeding the peoples of Europe and the interests of the capitalist elite, who need a cheap and disenfranchised workforce:
>Attempts by indigenous people of the rich countries to stop the migration flow are futile, because come in conflict with greed of their own elites who are interested in the low-wage workforce.
On usury
> The only alternative to the global fictitious liberal economy can only be a real Christian economy.
>Business expectations in lending, often ghostly becomes more profitable than the production of tangible goods. In this regard, it must be remembered about the moral ambiguity of the situation, when money is "make" new money without the application of human labor. Declaring credit sphere to be the main engine of the economy, its predominance over the real economic sector comes into conflict with the moral principles, reveled by God condemning usury.
Let's throw off the globalist shackles, lads!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNKAb75Cj_k
>>80012112
Catholic church = cuckold
Orthodox church = fragmented and corrupt
Both are shit ToBeHonest
>>80012293
To be quite honest all Churches seem shit.
>>80012112
Thanks for keeping it going
>>80012112
Based Traditionalist Christian branch :^o
>>80012293
How is the Orthodox Church fragmented or corrupt?
>>80012345
Being part of a church community and attending mass are a big part of being christian
>>80012536
Don't get me wrong. I go to Church but none of them seem to get passed drinking the milk as Paul put it.
>>80012417
Fragmented because it has no overall leader, just a bunch of scattered patriarchs, corrupt because priests are allowed to marry and because they don't have very much if any oversight or regulation unlike the Catholic church.
>>80012772
>decentralized = fragmented
The Catholic Church is like communism, the Orthodox Church is like communitarianism
How is allowing priests to be married (you can't be married after you become a priest, but you can be married beforehand) corrupt? Even the Catholics Church permits it if you aren't Latin Rite, and even if we submitted to the Pope, they'd still be find with us having that.
>>80013091
still be *fine
>>80012772
The Catholic Church post-Vatican II has been religiously corrupted, not only financially
>>80012112
I-it's beautiful.
Reminder that the book of Revelation speaks of the NWO in detail.
Truly the "happening".
>>80013176
The Catholic Church has financial connections with the Freemasons, the Vatican's banker ( Roberto Calvi) was a Freemason (later killed by his own lodge to cover up corruption).
First Seal: The Conqueror
6 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
Second Seal: Conflict on Earth
3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
Third Seal: Scarcity on Earth
5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius,[d] and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”
Fourth Seal: Widespread Death on Earth
7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
>>80013315
The fact Revelation promises many blessings to the reader is proof enough its an important book. I hope to be clear of all mans doctrines concerning the book someday and simply understand it how God wants me to.
>>80012594
This
I'd take it a step further and say that modern Churchianity is too superficial and flakey to be considered valid.
Pic related is far too prevalent because Churchianity turned Jesus into a wuss that doesn't talk about sin anymore, and everything is fine, God loves everyone, smiles and hugs, if you actually try following the bible you're just a legalistic Pharisee.
Sixth Seal: Cosmic Disturbances
12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
>>80013091
>>80013176
Priests being allowed to marry is a corruption of their relationship with God. How can a man manage a family, raise children, have sex with his wife, etc. And still be a godly man who is detached from the banalities of worldly life? He simply can't. Celibacy and seclusion and constant personal and divine contemplation and study are required. Just look at any of the church fathers. Any and all were celibate or became celibate after dedicating their life to God
>>80013341
Only the based Orthodox Church can save us now
Also all Traditionalist Christians who have kept themselves untarnished by worldly politics (ie. socialised, state-driven charity) - James 1:27
Seventh Seal: Prelude to the Seven Trumpets
8 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. 5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
>>80012293
>Catholic church = cuckold
Don't believe the Jewish media.
_______________________________________
>Pope says gay marriage is from satan
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-same-sex-marriage-move-father-lies-total-rejection-gods-law
>Pope Francis speaks against Gay adoption
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/pope-francis-shocked-by-gay-adoption-urges-bishop-to-speak-against-it-boldly/
>Compares trans rights to nuclear arms race
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pope-francis-compares-arguments-for-transgender-rights-to-nuclear-arms-race-10061223.html
>Pope Francis says that there's no salvation outside the Church
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/06/03/pope-francis-is-under-attack-for-saying-that-outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation-its-a-poke-in-the-eye-says-one-presbyterian-why-hes-wrong/
>He excommunicates an Australian priest supporting gay marriage and women clergy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html
>Pope Francis is against gender theory and for traditional gender roles
http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-francis-gender-theory-problem-not-solution
>Pope is against abortion
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/09/23/pope-francis-on-abortions-innocent-victims-its-wrong-to-look-the-other-way-or-remain-silent/
>He Encourages the use of force against ISIS
http://www.businessinsider.com/pope-francis-endorses-use-of-force-against-isis-in-iraq-2014-8
>Pope Francis is against lukewarm "faith"
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-off-the-cuff-to-priests-religious-indifference-makes-god-vomit-69700/
>The Pope is misquoted often
http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/
>The Pope Rebukes Communist Cross
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/11729834/Pope-rebukes-Bolivias-President-Evo-Morales-for-gift-of-crucifix-mounted-on-hammer-and-sickle.html
>>80013797
I respect Traditionalist Catholics mate. Nothing more than that
If you wish to legally mandate priesthood celibacy, you be my guest
Humanoid soldiers?
3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.
7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth.
>>80013859
>Only the based Orthodox Church
Thats a meme. For starters, the Orthodox church isn't a singular entity. Its several fragmented churches with patriarchs at the head of them, such as the Russian Orthodox , Syrian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, etc. And they are full of problems
>>80013797
Priests can't marry. Married men can become priests though.
>>80013993
Pope_kissing_migrant_feet.jpg
>>80013754
>modern Churchianity is too superficial and flakey to be considered valid.
You mean Protestantism?
Catholicism and the Orthodox Church are doing fine.
>>80014121
At least we're not united in doing this
>>80014121
The church was never a unitary organization. Rome distortion field in full effect.
Read about the pentarchy for notes.
>>80014247
Yes but that is stupid for all the reasons I listed
>>80013754
Hypocrites when you see Jesus' whole work in a legalistic context
>>80014282
I wouldn't call him a traditionalist like Benedict, but he's not a heretic either.
>>80013797
Most of them were bishops, or at least tonsured.
We allow priests to be married because priests minister directly to the laity. Our Confession has a lot of counseling involved, it's face to face without a scree (and the actual confession is not facing the priest, but toward and icon with a priest to the side, it's to God).
Anyway, this is all a moot point, since your Church has no objection to married priests, it's just a discipline peculiar to Latin Rite. Your own Church says there is nothing wrong with it whatsoever. You can't criticize the Orthodox Church on those grounds, since that wouldn't change even if we submitted to you. If we did, would you still be harping about how we're a bad Church because of married priests?
>>80014392
Just because the Western Church was driven underground into the monasteries for 500 years doesn't mean the rest of the Church was.
>>80014476
>Anyway, this is all a moot point, since your Church has no objection to married priests, it's just a discipline peculiar to Latin Rite.
This
>>80014357
>Catholicism
Yes, with its infallible "gay is okay, Islam is okay, Trump is racist, I love globalist media" pope.
>>80014282
More like
Pope_kissing_migrant_feet.exe*
>>80014476
>>80014493
I'm not even debating the doctrinal rules or procedures or whatever. I'm just saying that from an analytic point of view
>How can a man manage a family, raise children, have sex with his wife, etc. And still be a godly man who is detached from the banalities of worldly life?
The day after the Pope said the Church must apologize to gays, the Orthodox Church in America made this declaration. Coincidence?
>The statement outlines the Orthodox Christian’s "sincerely held religious belief" that marriage is "a lifelong, exclusive relationship between one man and one woman," and therefore any sexual relations outside of natural marriage "is immoral, and therefore sin."
>The encyclical continues, "We believe that God created the human race, male and female, and that all conduct with the intent to adopt a gender other than one’s birth gender is immoral and therefore sin
>Even more explicitly, the document states, "Marriage can only be between two people whose birth sex is male and female.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/orthodox-church-in-america-aims-to-protect-itself-from-lawsuits-with-strong
>>80014851
I wouldn't really describe the family as "a banality".
>>80012112
How to you guys prevent yourself from getting horny and jacking off. I think that's against the rules.
>>80014571
>gay is okay
He said homosexuality is from Satan.
>Islam is okay
Is he supposed to tell the sandniggers that their religion is in fact a cult created by a warlord? This would get even more Christians killed. A political move, if anything.
>Trump is racist
Never said that.
>I love globalist media
The mainstream media that constantly takes pieces of his speeches and claims he said that?
Refer to this post: >>80013993
>>80014851
The same as any other Christian. We are all called to be detached from the world. Priests are not magical beings.
>>80015074
Prayer and fasting are crucial. Icons and hymns are also very helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_6e9T1FpG8
>>80015074
I know I don't ^////^
>>80015158
I'm genuinely concerned about him kissing the Quran. Why would he do that?
>>80012112
We literally are near Event Horizon of the End Times
>>80015074
Limit myself to what websites I visit, or if I start getting horny, then do something else (e.g. go for a run or work out).
Is it true most Puerto Ricans are Catholic?
>>80012112
>>80015074
Idle hands are a devil's plaything. Keep yourself busy and free from distraction.
From Vatican II
>The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
-Nostra aetate
>But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.
-Lumen gentium
Oh, and John Paul II doing this had nothing to do with getting Muslim allies against communism, the USSR fell before this
>On 6 May 2001 he became the first Catholic pope to enter and pray in a mosque, namely the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus, Syria. Respectfully removing his shoes, he entered the former Byzantine era Christian church dedicated to John the Baptist, who is also revered as a prophet of Islam. He gave a speech including the statement: "For all the times that Muslims and Christians have offended one another, we need to seek forgiveness from the Almighty and to offer each other forgiveness."[92] He kissed the Qur'an in Syria, an act that made him popular among Muslims but that disturbed many Catholics.[186]
Catholicism is finished, and it breaks my heart. But now we have got to jump ship and transition to Western Rite Orthodoxy.
>Orthodox Catholics of the Western Rite accept the Theology and Faith of the entire Eastern Orthodox Church and are fully in Communion with all authentic Orthodox Christians. The only difference is found in the Liturgical Rites and devotions used within their parishes.
http://www.staugustinedenver.org/about_wr.html
Who else is #Converting here? Also post Western Rite Orthodox stuff. Das Rite.
>>80015074
Sin begins when we assent to the thought. When the idea enters your head, dismiss it.
>>80015072
For a man who's supposed purpose is to dedicate himself to God and to preaching and learning, thing such as sex and raising children are completely contrary to his purpose. They're distractions
>>80015406
Yeah. I got it from my mom.
>A Christian brother and sister from Syria felt blessed to have been among the dozen refugees selected to start a new life in Italy — but now say their savior, Pope Francis, abandoned them on a Greek island, according to a report.
>Their dreams were shattered when they were informed the following day that they would not be traveling to Rome. Instead, three Muslim families were taken.
http://nypost.com/2016/04/22/pope-francis-reneges-on-offer-to-take-in-christian-refugees/
>Pope Francis has hailed the election of London’s first Muslim mayor in a wide-ranging interview with a French newspaper.
>"When I hear talk of the Christian roots of Europe, I sometimes dread the tone, which can seem triumphalist or even vengeful. It then takes on colonialist overtones," Pope Francis said.
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/05/17/pope-francis-hails-election-of-sadiq-khan-as-mayor-of-london/
Catholics, leave your Church, come to the Orthodox Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pqax_dPgTk
>>80015074
I did it for years and just stopped a few months ago.
If you have other bad habits such as smoking, drinking, drugs stop those and it may follow.
Above all stop porn, it is so destructive to a life.
If you are unmarried I don't think the occasional jerk is a sin, but making it a central part of life is very damaging.
>t. experience
>>80015533
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI92g8JWwn8
From a Western Rite Parish, using a Western Rite hymn. Notice the Western Rite icons, including a carved one
>>80015533
Are you the Brazilian from the previous thread?
The Roman Catholic Church is not finished. Whatever you think we're going through right now, we've gone through worse in the past.
Any specific concerns?
>>80015579
Maybe if you're a Gnostic heretic.
>>80015192
Priests are within a separate category from secular citizens. The latter is expected to procreate and serve secular functions while the former is supposed to be dedicated entirely to religious and spiritual life
>>80015507
>he kissed the Koran
What a disgusting fellow. He's fucking done for if he didn't repent for this sin
>>80015579
No, having a wife and children facilitate his understanding of families in parish. He can easier minister to their problems.
A wife and children raised in God fortify the faith, they don't detract from it. That is why marriage is a SACRAMENT.
>>80015837
No, I'm not the person you're referring to.
My concern is that Pope Francis might be the abomination of desolation and that the Orthodox Church might be the last remnant.
>>80015301
It certainly seems like that, my friend. Keep watch for signs of the End, and don't have fear. Pslams 2, brother. The Lord laughs at those who rise up against Him, and blessed are those who put their trust in Him.
>>80015843
>calls me a heretic
>thinks priests should be concerned with sensual pleasure and familial trivialities rather than dedicating himself to God
The irony is palpable
>>80015942
Rather, he was canonized a saint by the Catholic Church
>>80016086
>family is a triviality
Damn it, Catholics
>>80016107
Guess that works too
>>80016012
>No, having a wife and children facilitate his understanding of families in parish
If that's true, then he is no spiritually distinguished from the average churchgoer. In other words, he's just as petty, selfish, and jaded as the average secular person. And you think that's a good thing. Fucking kek
>>80016086
>marriage is not a path to salvation
There are three kinds of martyrdom:
>red (death)
>black (monastic)
>white (marriage)
Who are you to judge another man's servant? You don't know what spiritual abilities other people have been given. They may be different from yours.
let's ask the real questions
Were the early Christians a Smug Pepe or a Smug Anime Girl crowd?
>>80016174
For a man who dedicates his life to god, yes. When I say that, I don't mean he shouldn't care about his family. I just mean that he shouldn't be concerned with all the trivialities that come naturally with having a wife and/or children
>>80016408
Why is the process of salvation trivial to you?
Maybe you should call the Pope and tell him to fire all the married Catholic priests, because there are thousands.
American Orthodox Patriarchate when???
>>80016351
I'm not saying marriage is bad, but rather that it shouldn't be mixed with religious vocations
>>80016024
The grass is always greener on the other side, my friend. The Orthodox Church has her own set of problems (e.g. horribly corrupt).
Just look at Benedict, our most recent pontiff, who is a very traditional Catholic. Hope is not lost.
Francis isn't a traditionalist like Benedict, but he's also not a heretic. He's never said anything that goes against the faith. Honestly, he doesn't know how to handle himself with the media. He's misquoted a lot and the media picks up on this.
You'll have to read between the lines, or his actual speeches to get the right idea.
God bless you.
>>80016362
Smug anime girl
>>80016663
The priesthood is not monastic. It never was, except in the West after the 400s.
>>80016362
Wojak
>>80016698
>Pardoning the current pope in any sense
Sad
>>80012293
Canada is shit
>>80016698
>The Orthodox Church has her own set of problems (e.g. horribly corrupt).
Nice meme, next you'll tell us how all our clergy are KGB agents.
>>80016408
If you want priests without families, you should choose them from monasteries (as we generally do with bishops). You shouldn't says men who desire to be priests should spend their youth single in hope of realizing that ambition.
>>80016752
A priest should be rightfully married to the Church. That should be his only focus in life. How else is he supposed to live out his vocation if he has more than one (a wife and the priesthood)?
We should be careful not to insult the church, as it serves the important role of bringing people to Christ. For those of us who have already accepted Him, it often seems useless. I haven't attended church for years yet my faith in God is much stronger than when I did, not because of the church so much as changes within myself. When I seek fellowship as we as Christians are naturally inclined to do I prefer the internet now.
Anyone have any theories on why Catholics tend to be cucked more than any other denomination?
![2445555-url[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2NubeYK.jpg "2445555-url[1].jpg")
The papacy is something of an honor in Catholicism. The papacy contain positions of value in serving God with the Pope the highest position and is considered the head of church and the biggest mouth piece for God. By tradition, the first pope was St. Peter, one of the most devoted of Jesus' disciples. Being the Pope is a great honor, however it must be reminded that a man with so much power can lead to corruption to the church. Now in the modern age, one is not condemned for disagreeing with the Pope, but the fact that he has a huge title, people are likely to bandwagon to his ideas. This is obviously a problem because if the pope is corrupt, then he will lead many people to destroying the church.
I'm afraid this is more relevant than ever for Catholicism. The Pope has sided on many controversial issues, some of which are things a Pope should never believe in. (ex: Jesus's apostles = ISIS , European Catholicism was bad, ect.) The only people who like this new pope are progressives, lapsed Catholics, and priests that side with socialism. The true Catholics must unite to prevent/stop the papacy in committing and moral decay, and ensure that the church will have a brighter tomorrow.
>>80016940
I'd rather have some corrupt bishops who exercise their priesthood properly and don't change the faith, than manifest heretics like... Most of the RC bishops in Europe for starters.
>>80017034
Nice avoiding of the subject.
>Always
>Everywhere
>By All
>>80015533
I am visiting an Orthodox church this Sunday for the first time.
How the so-called religious authorities can compromise on non-negotiables is beyond my comprehension.
I come from a evangelical background though.
>>80017034
Marriage and Holy Orders are two different sacraments.
>>80016698
I'm afraid you underestimate Francis, my friend. He knows exactly how to handle the media. He is almost eighty years old and very smart, yea cunning. I think he's not misguided at all. I think he is a destroyer.
>>80016752
So you're saying that the early church was infallible? You realize they made tons of changes and additions over the years to unify and harmonize all the doctrine of the faith? They realized pretty early on that priests having wives and being otherwise concerned with worldly matters was a bad idea and very easily corrupting, which is why the Orthodox church has traditionally been, and still is, a cesspool of hypocrisy and frivolity
>>80016855
I may not like him, but he hasn't done anything heretical. I can only pray for another traditional pontiff.
>>80016940
I didn't mean to offend you, I simply meant that neither of our Churches are perfect (since imperfect humans were entrusted with them). I view members of the Orthodox Church as our brothers and sisters, so God bless you. :)
>>80017578
We Orthodox hold all dogma to be infallible and present since Christ; dogma is exclusively what Christ taught the Apostles directly. For us, this cannot change in "understanding". It doesn't improve, it is perfect already.
You can add and remove *canons*, but these are not doctrine.
Our Church has never had any equivalent to the Borgias, yours is far more corrupt.
Reminders that:
Antioch and Jerusalem have excommunicated each other over > muh canonical territory
The Great Council has ecumenical-ized all the anti-Western synods post-Nikaea II and thus "Ecumenism of Return" is a go again (as it should be).
>>80015533
Reminder that ROCOR has forced its Western Rite bodies to switch completely to the Byzantine Rite.
>>80017132
>I haven't attended church for years yet my faith in God is much stronger than when I did
Receiving our Lord Jesus Christ in the Eucharist will allow you to grow in your faith even more.
>Catholics tend to be cucked
/pol/ memes
If you're serious, then it's due the secularization of historically Catholic countries/areas; the fruits of Satan.
I love C.S. Lewis so much.
If he was alive I'd suck his dick but not in a gay way.
>>80017972
>banjo is satanic
I fucking called it
>>80018126
It's a lute
>>80017578
The Latin _innovation_ of having monastic priests stems from the fall of Rome. The church survived in the monasteries, and this fundamentally affected the development of clerical discipline and even liturgy. It's not from some super enlightened state of higher understanding.
The early church is not the standard for every detail but it must be consistent. If you are saying clerical celibacy is the only way, why was this not received by the entire church?
Again, call up your pope and tell him to laicize all the married priests who are in communion to the Vatican, if it's so bad. You will only drive more of them home to the Orthodox Church, like St. Alexis Toth.
>>80017864
Cuckoolic
>>80017851
Oh you had the "Equal-to-the-Apostles" and "Emperor-of-the-Romans" Justinian, who had the habit of locking away orthodox bishops, bribing the pliable with the metropolias of the African and Italian provinces and lying in an Ecumenical council and forcing all those present to canonize that lie.
>>80018271
But don't forget this >>80017864
As for me, I don't care and wanna lose my virginity now
>>80018327
Touche.
>>80018389
>the Nicene Creed is a lie
Show me any sentence from it that is not backed by scripture.
>>80017864
The representatives for more than half the Orthodox Church refused to agree with the council, it's invalid.
Ratification of a council as ecumenical only happens when recognition of it is incorporated into Divine Liturgy (thus it is taught by the Church). If this doesn't happen, it's not officially taught by the Church
The Patriarch of Jerusalem is in the wrong (but better than the last one, who was defrocked for selling Church property to Israel). No one cares what he says, both still take communion with each other, and all other Patriarchs say his decree is invalid.
>>80017388
>I think he is a destroyer
Perhaps.
You point out something great, though:
>He is almost eighty years old
He will most likely step in a few years (as he mentioned at the beginning of his pontificate) and chances are that we will get a rightfully traditional pontiff in these increasingly dark times.
I'm very thankful that Pope Benedict has maybe started a trend, where older pontiffs will step down so that they can't be taken advantage of.
We have gone through times where the pontiffs were martyred. Times where the papacy was sold. Times where the Vatican was used in hedonistic actions.
Evil has not prevailed before and it will not.
We should pray for the Mother Church, brother. :)
>>80018455
Enjoy licking rapefugee feet. Bring back the Tridentine mass and I might consider returning
>>80018389
Yeah, iirc, he locked away the Pope because the Pope refused to agree to the Fifth Ecumenical Council, and the Pope said, "You cannot silence Saint Peter's Throne by prison!"
The Pope came around eventually, of course.
>>80017851
Your clergy works directly with the local secular governments and mafias.
The pot calling the kettle black.
>>80018507
> Ibas was declared orthodox by Chalcedon
> Ibas' letter is >heretical
> therefore Ibas couldn't have written it
Justinian, not even once.
>>80018747
We work directly with governments, sure.
Mafias, no.
>>80018023
I've heard a lot of Catholics talk about his work, but I never got to choosing a good book.
Any recommendations?
>>80018899
He wasn't even a Catholic, he was Anglican. J.R.R. Tolkien tried to convert him, but to no avail.
>>80018654
And all his patriarchate except for Suburbicarian Italy rightly broke communion with him, at least until Justinian have martyred the rightful bishops of Roman Africa and installed corrupt ones in their place.
Spain didn't even "receive" Constantinople II until it was imposed on them during the Reconquista.
>>80018899
Mere Christianity is a good start. I'm reading one for myself right now.
>>80018899
Start with Mere Christianity, and then check out Abolition of Man and The Screwtape Letters
>>80018980
This.
>>80018612
The Tridentine mass was never "removed."
Masses are offered in vernacular and Latin all over the world, there's probably parishes/churches near you that offer it.
>>80018980
But he's Anglo-catholic
>>80019012
They didn't like him because he was working to reconcile with the Oriental Orthodox. While he didn't achieve that, he did have their Christological formula recognized as valid in the Fifth Ecumenical Council (which is why the Pope was so against the council).
>>80019135
It is thanks to Vatican 2. I am ashamed but at least I get to fap all I want now.
>>80019169
No, not really (if you mean accepting theology like Purgatory and the Hail Mary). T.S. Eliot absolutely was though, and incorporates the theology heavily into his most famous poem, The Waste Land.
>>80019135
There's more to Tridentine Mass than it being in Latin. We have a very similar mass in Western Rite Orthodoxy called the Liturgy of Saint Tikhon, which is tweaked to accord to Orthodox standards. We have it in Latin and in English. The English version is very different from the Latin Novus Ordo Mass
>>80019227
>which is why the Pope was so against the council
The fact that Justinian outright had to lie in order to "show" that Constantinople II did not contradict Chalcedon (and force his lackey bishops-in-council to accept the lie, imprisoning all else) speaks volumes.
If you're convinced that what you hold is the True Faith, why lie?
>>80012112
I mean you no harm or offense and am just trying to help.
>>80019279
>It is thanks to Vatican 2.
I attended a Latin mass this Sunday. What area do you live in? I will find a parish that offers it near you.
> I get to fap all I want now.
Christian or not, masturbation isn't healthy, brother.
>>80019367
Oh, Ash Wednesday is also another poem of his that is very Anglo-Catholic
What is meant by the phrase "and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"
At what point can you say this disqualifyer has been met for a church?
>>80019576
It didn't.
Bishops who continue to dissent after an ecumenical council is accepted were always imprisoned or exiled, because they are by definition heretics.
>>80019785
If a Church changes any dogma, either by adding to it, taking away from it, or "improving the understanding" of it, then the gates of hell prevailed over it, because they have cut themselves off from the assembly (Church) of Christ, and Christ is life (hell here is a translation of HADES--the Greek term for Sheol--not Gehenna, the fiery pit).
>>80019367
The guy prays for the dead, believes in Purgatory and has a high view of the sacraments. But he's Anglican so those aren't really a novelty for them
credit is essential to healthy economic growth
le usury is dumb. god doesnt understand corporate finance
>>80019829
Nope. They were imprisoned before the council. Look up Victor of Tonnena and St. Dacius of Mediolanum. Justinian stacked the Western delegation to the council with his bribed picks (e.g. Primosus of Carthage) and imprisoned those who would have objected in council.
And you still haven't addressed Justinian's lie regarding Ibas.
>>80019550
>Liturgy of Saint Tikhon
That's pretty cool, anon, I'm going to look into it.
I'd love to observe a mass at an Orthodox Church, but I don't know if I'd be allowed in.
>>80019984
>If a Church changes any dogma, either by adding to it, taking away from it, or "improving the understanding" of it, then the gates of hell prevailed over it, because they have cut themselves off from the assembly (Church) of Christ, and Christ is life (hell here is a translation of HADES--the Greek term for Sheol--not Gehenna, the fiery pit).
How do you come to this answer by what reasoning/grounds?
Doesnt the high standard you set mean that the Church fathers and pretty much every church since Christs death and resurrection breach this standard?
>>80019576
Is Justinian the emperor involved in the whole Monothelite controversy? Can I date you and make you my Catholic waifu?
>>80019587
Look at my flag ;__;
>>80020290
That was Heraclius.
And no, I'm already spoken for, my apologies, anon.
>>80012293
>>80012417
Russia spawned the biggest Communist state, so I'm gonna say Orthodox church is pretty corrupt
>>80020212
All parishes allow anyone for Liturgy (some still say "Catechumens depart" before the Nicene Creed and Communion, though, this is an ancient practice from the early Church, where those not initiated were not privy to the the confession that Christ is God himself--the Nicene Creed is just the final version of that confession--and ceremony of communion, because they did not want them to snitch--to this day, the priest still says, "Guard the doors!" beforehand, because we used to say that to ensure no Pharisees were coming by or whatever. But most parishes allow to be present throughout the whole thing).
>>80015409
aww, didn't bait any replies.
Don't worry, I have this just for you!
>>80020202
Don't know enough about it.
The main issue with the Fifth Council is that it declared anathemas against criticism of Saint Cyril of Alexandria's Twelve Anathemas. Do you think this is an error?
>>80020384
Oh no ;___; guess I'll be a cultural Catholic until the cuck pope brings back the Tritendine mass and stop the whole
Novus Ordo bullshit
I hope catholics and orthodox can be cool with each other more. Cuck pope ain't great but to undermine all the catholics who know to not be little bit cheaper Boys isn't fair. Also what are old believers, heard there orthodox little cousins.
>>80020285
"Dogma" comes from the Greek word for "teaching". For us, it is a term meaning "that which Christ taught".
Obviously, no one but Christ can change that.
Church Fathers, or least the teachings accepted by them (they sometimes erred), did not innovate, they simply witnessed Christ's teachings and defended them. They also taught about the implications of Christ's teachings and how to apply them in our day-to-day lives.
I fasted and prayed so much over whether or not to remain the Catholic Church that I had to be hospitalized for a day or two.
I'm becoming Orthodox, brothers.
>>80020285
What that cuckodox probably meant was the whole "development of doctrine" belief of Catholicism. If he's gonna mean those words as they are, Orthodoxy is guilty of such acts as well given how the councils and church Fathers would tidy up as to speak, the dogmas received against heresy.
>>80020891
>Novus Ordo
It can be nice if done correctly by the priest, but the TLM is better.
I realize you live in a 60% Muslim country, but there must be some parishes near you. There must be Tridentine masses.
God bless.
>>80021429
There's none. And I am sort of NEET now since it's summer break
>>80020944
*know not to be little bitch boys
>>80020501
>Grand Duchess Elisabeth of Russia (Russian: Eлизaвeтa Фëдopoвнa Poмaнoвa, Yelizaveta Fyodorovna Romanova; canonized as Holy Martyr Yelizaveta Fyodorovna; 1 November 1864 – 18 July 1918) was a German princess of the House of Hesse-Darmstadt, and the wife of Grand Duke Sergei Alexandrovich of Russia, fifth son of Emperor Alexander II of Russia and Princess Marie of Hesse and the Rhine. She was also a maternal great-aunt of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, the consort of Elizabeth II.
>Charming and with a very accommodating personality, Elisabeth was considered by many historians and contemporaries to be one of the most beautiful women in Europe at that time
>But it was a Russian Grand Duke who ultimately won Elisabeth's heart. Elisabeth's great-aunt, Empress Maria Alexandrovna of Russia, was a frequent visitor to Hesse. During these visits, she was usually accompanied by her youngest sons, Sergei and Paul. Elisabeth had known the boys since they were children, and she initially viewed them as haughty and reserved. Sergei, especially, was a very serious young man, intensely religious, and he found himself attracted to Elisabeth after seeing her as a young woman for the first time in several years.
>On 18 February 1905, Sergei was assassinated in the Kremlin by the Socialist-Revolutionary, Ivan Kalyayev.
cont
>>80021663
>"Elizabeth spent all the days before the burial in ceaseless prayer. On her husband's tombstone she wrote: 'Father, release them, they know not what they do.' She understood the words of the Gospels heart and soul, and on the eve of the funeral she demanded to be taken to the prison where Kalyayev was being held. Brought into his cell, she asked, 'Why did you kill my husband?' 'I killed Sergei Alexandrovich because he was a weapon of tyranny. I was taking revenge for the people.' 'Do not listen to your pride. Repent... and I will beg the Sovereign to give you your life. I will ask him for you. I myself have already forgiven you.' On the eve of revolution, she had already found a way out; forgiveness! Forgive through the impossible pain and blood -- and thereby stop it then, at the beginning, this bloody wheel. By her example, poor Ella appealed to society, calling upon the people to live in Christian faith. 'No!" replied Kalyayev. 'I do not repent. I must die for my deed and I will... My death will be more useful to my cause than Sergei Alexandrovich's death.' Kalyayev was sentenced to death. 'I am pleased with your sentence,' he told the judges. 'I hope that you will carry it out just as openly and publicly as I carried out the sentence of the Socialist Revolutionary Party. Learn to look the advancing revolution right in the face.'"[3]
cont
>>80021708
>After Sergei’s death, Elisabeth wore mourning clothes and became a vegetarian. In 1909, she sold off her magnificent collection of jewels and sold her other luxurious possessions; even her wedding ring was not spared. With the proceeds she opened the Convent of Saints Martha and Mary and became its abbess.
>She soon opened a hospital, a chapel, a pharmacy and an orphanage on its grounds. Elisabeth and her nuns worked tirelessly among the poor and the sick of Moscow. She often visited Moscow’s worst slums and did all she could to help alleviate the suffering of the poor.
>In 1918, Lenin ordered the Cheka to arrest Elisabeth.
>>80021792
>At noon on 17 July, Cheka officer Pyotr Startsev and a few Bolshevik workers came to the school. They took from the prisoners whatever money they had left and announced that they would be transferred that night to the Upper Siniachikhensky factory compound. The Red Army guards were told to leave and Cheka men replaced them. That night the prisoners were awakened and driven in carts on a road leading to the village of Siniachikha, some 18 kilometres (11 miles) from Alapayevsk where there was an abandoned iron mine with a pit 20 metres (66 feet) deep. Here they halted. The Cheka beat all the prisoners before throwing their victims into this pit, Elisabeth being the first. Hand grenades were then hurled down the shaft, but only one victim, Fyodor Remez, died as a result of the grenades.
>According to the personal account of Vasily Ryabov, one of the killers, Elisabeth and the others survived the initial fall into the mine, prompting Ryabov to toss in a grenade after them. Following the explosion, he claimed to have heard Elisabeth and the others singing an Orthodox hymn from the bottom of the shaft.[5] Unnerved, Ryabov threw down a second grenade, but the singing continued. Finally a large quantity of brushwood was shoved into the opening and set alight, upon which Ryabov posted a guard over the site and departed.
>On 8 October 1918, White Army soldiers discovered the remains of Elisabeth and her companions, still within the shaft where they had been murdered. Despite having lain there for almost three months, the bodies were in relatively good condition. Most were thought to have died slowly from injuries or starvation, rather than the subsequent fire. Elisabeth had died of wounds sustained in her fall into the mine, but before her death had still found strength to bandage the head of the dying Prince Ioann with her wimple.
>>80019576
And on another note, I have Price's English edition of the acta of Constantinople II, and the excuses he makes for Justinian and the council in his foreword are sad to see.
> Sometimes, you know, such methods (e.g. lies, duress, creative reinterpretation) are necessary to "safeguard the ancient faith" and to "come to a better understanding"
>>80020813
You do know that Blessed Theodoret of Cyrrus (who wrote those criticisms) was adjudged orthodox at Chalcedon, and that the language of the Twelve Anathemas are tinged with Apollinarianism right?
Oh, and before anyone says language doesn't matter so long as it can be interpreted in an orthodox manner, let the Orthodox Churches remove the anathemas to the "Who was crucified for us" addition to the Trisagion of the Copts and the Armenians.
As for the Twelve Anathemas I accept the Formula of Reunion between John of Antioch and St Cyril of Alexandria in 433 (which Miaphysites of then and now have been extremely reluctant to accept as coming from the hand of St Cyril).
>>80021876
Pic related, an Orthodox icon
>>80021405
What're your reasons?
>>80021585
Which state? If you're close enough (e.g. Johor), Singapore has a weekly TLM at Sunday 3pm.
>>80021981
>and that the language of the Twelve Anathemas are tinged with Apollinarianism right?
I've read them, and I don't see this
>>80021585
You could always try Novus Ordo, then. :) The Eucharist is what matters most.
I will pray for you, my friend.
>>80021981
>Blessed Theodoret of Cyrrus (who wrote those criticisms) was adjudged orthodox at Chalcedon
Yes, only his criticism's were anathematized, not the man himself
Even saints make mistakes. Saint Augustine was a Nestorian, for instance.
>>80022061
It's not an icon. It just a story telling picture that describes execution of the royal family during the 1917 revolution in Russia
>>80022091
Sarawak. I've been to a lot of Catholic Churches, no TLM in sight. Oodly enough, there's an Anglican Cathedral that offers "Solemn liturgy" on Sundays. I assume based on my experience with Anglo-Catholicism, there'll be incense and more Tridentine-esque ritual actions
>>80022161
I did for years in ignorance, until I discovered the Tridentine mass one day and felt ashamed the church easily let go or replaced something beautiful
>>80022087
Modernism. I could write paragraphs and paragraphs, but it all comes down to modernism. The Catholic Church is in love with the world. They've succumbed to the third temptation Christ had in the wilderness.
>>80022442
It's of her
>>80021663
Not the Romanovs.
>>80022654
All Orthodox parishes use incense for every service.
>>80022273
> Nestorian
Nope. You do know that he would have been one of the Fathers of Ephesus (and was specifically invited to it) had he not died during the Vandal siege of Hippo Regius, right?
> even saints make mistakes
And the common witness of the North African Fathers (St. Cyprian's intellectual heirs) is that he was heterodox in insisting that heretical baptism is invalid (an important point, which g), yet no one would have thought then of anathematizing his person after he died (which, incidentally, Justinian got the council to do in posthumously anathematizing the person of Theodore, who had been held to be one of the luminaries of the Church in the Diocese of Oriens, and died in peace and communion with the Church at large).
American Eastern Orthodox here. I do like some of the reforms of the Episcopals and even Catholics, but I still support my church.
>>80012417
I've heard disturbing stories about priests and bishops in Greece siding with right wing neo-Nazis just because they hate foreigners and gays.
>>80020501
Well the Russian Church was put under the heel of the communists and now they're lapdogs of the former communist turn capitalist big government of Putin.
>>80023236
* (an important point, which refutes the Cyprianic model of sacramental validity which the Orthodox nowadays holds on to)
immigration is retarded cuz places are happier and better off with people of their own kind . doesnt mean you have to hate all black people but you prefer whites to be your friends you spend time with cuz theyre more similar
and usury is bullshit the entire modern way of life and monetary system is broken there needs to be large families again that have true wealth and land without debt that can sustain human beings without having to pay someone
>>80022273
>>80023236
Or maybe you're thinking of St. Leo of Rome and Romanides' slanders against him.
>>80023164
Did you read your source? It says Romanova right there
>>80022812
Have you tried the Traditional Latin Mass?
The Orthodox Church is not much different from us.
>>80023223
I know that. I love catgirls too
>>80023236
>Nope.
Yep
'She was the mother, then, of His flesh, of His humanity, of the weakness which for our sakes He took upon Him[. ..]Now as she was not the mother of His divine nature, while it was by His divinity the miracle she asked for would be wrought, therefore He answered her, Woman, what have I to do with you?'
-Tractates on the Gospel of John [Tractate 8]
>>80023549
And to add:
> Romanides
> rigorous historical scholarship
Pick one and only one.
>>80012112
based as fuck
I think I really might become a Christian
>>80023747
Yes. The pontiff backhandedly throwing a bone to traditionalists in no way negates the modernism that has infested the church.
>>80022768
It should be mandatory for >at least< one priest in each diocese to be able to celebrate the TLM.
>>80024091
deathtotheworld.com
>>80023809
The whole Nestorian controversy was a big clusterfuck and even reading through Mcguckin's book on it makes my head spin. Nestorius never actually admitted or believed that Christ was two persons but such is entailed by the thought of Nestorius himself.
>>80023809
> Now as she was not the mother of His divine nature
> Nature
Is the operative word here. Nestorianism insists on a union on the level of prosopon, not hypostasis. The burden of proof is on you to show that St Augustine believed in Christ having two hypostases united in one prosopon.
And you still haven't addressed the fact that St. Augustine was requested by name to attend Ephesus. And from Constantinople II (granted it got it right):
"We further declare that we hold fast to the decrees of the four Councils, and in every way follow the holy Fathers, Athanasius, Hilary, Basil, Gregory the Theologian, Gregory of Nyssa, Ambrose, Theophilus, John of Constantinople, Cyril, Augustine, Proclus, Leo and their writings on the true faith."
Woops.
>>80012112
GTFOMB you hypocrite. WWJD - browse 4chan?
>>80024190
It should be mandatory for there to be weekly Tridentine mass at every parish
>>80021026
>Church Fathers, or least the teachings accepted by them (they sometimes erred), did not innovate, they simply witnessed Christ's teachings and defended them. They also taught about the implications of Christ's teachings and how to apply them in our day-to-day lives.
How do you know the difference between what was witnessed and what wasnt?
>>80021412
What inovations have the orthodox made dogma wise?
>2000+ plus years and he still hasn't come back
It's time to move on.
>>80024847
In all likelihood, yes. He would have also left the basement, but if Christ were here today he would absolutely preach to those who have lost hope and light here on 4chan.
>>80012112
Did you know Roman Catholicism is idolatry?
>>80025048
Did you know that protestants are only Christian through virtue of their baptism?
>>80024957
You wait. The antichrist isn't even here yet.
>also pic related
>>80024924
>How do you know the difference between what was witnessed and what wasnt?
Yep. Any doctrine that doesn't trace back continuously to the early Church is innovated.
>>80024674
Prosopon and hypostasis are synonymous in theology. Latin uses the former in all cases, that is why the Trinity is said in English to have three "persons", because of the Latin.
>>80024924
Probably none since the whole Theosis thing can be found in earlier church fathers and the whole essence-energies thing is in fact of Neoplatonic infleunce which many of the church fathers ascribe to.
>>80024674
The Orthodox consider Augustine a Church Father, but no Church Father is infallible. A Church Father is in the wrong where he conflicts with the consensus of Church Fathers.
>>80025048
Did you know I am a femboy?
>>80025637
>Yep. Any doctrine that doesn't trace back continuously to the early Church is innovated.
But isnt that circular in the sense that we only know early church doctrine from the church fathers and we know they are church fathers because of early church doctrine?
>>80025961
>>80026118
Early Church doctrine is almost entirely included in Scripture, at the least all of it is implied.
>>80026272
>Early Church doctrine is almost entirely included in Scripture, at the least all of it is implied.
Its that last part that creates the serious issue for me because thats all it takes to create those fundamental problems.
Furthermore theres the great risk that consensus often falls down to a majority opinion in these areas which means that if the wrong view predominated in those 2 centuries it effectly means that wrong view is permanently cemented forever.
>>80026609
You are correct, but since Christ told us the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church, we accept that his Church still persists. An assembly teaching other than what Christ's taught, would not be Christ's assembly (Church).
>>80026609
Also, don't forget that the teachers of doctrine in the Church come through Apostolic succession. The Apostles taught the doctrines to those they made teachers, and so on.
>implying you need to go to church to be a Christian
>Letting a Unitarian faggot tell you gays are okay in God's eyes because MUH COMMUNITY
>>80013797
>leaf
>not retarded
Catholic priests could marry until about 1000 years ago, fuck off
>>80025785
> Prosopon and hypostasis are synonymous in theology.
Or that Latin uses "persona" interchangeably to mean prosopon or hypostasis depending on context while recognizing that the two are distinct. Again, the burden of proof is up to you that St. Augustine held to a prosopic rather than a hypostatic union.
Nope. If there was a time that hypostasis was synonymous with something, it was with ousia.
>>80025876
Not an argument re: "St Augustine was a Nestorian".
>>80027828
> If there was a time that hypostasis was synonymous with something, it was with ousia.
Case in point, St. Athanasius.
>>80026775
>You are correct, but since Christ told us the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church, we accept that his Church still persists. An assembly teaching other than what Christ's taught, would not be Christ's assembly (Church)
Not entirely, whilst the truth is still capable of being known and preached the gates of hell haven't prevailed. Imagine if the Latin empire was successful in supplanting Orthodoxy by force and it took centuries for it to be overthrown would you really tell them that oh its no point struggling against the latins because the loss of our power means that Orthodoxy must be false.
>Also, don't forget that the teachers of doctrine in the Church come through Apostolic succession. The Apostles taught the doctrines to those they made teachers, and so on.
Look at the big difference between the views and characters of the Apostles this doesnt seem to be as monolithic and safe as it seems and would leave plenty of room for serious error
>>80025876
> consensus of the Church Fathers
Which in the Orthodox Churches de facto means looking at theology through Cappadocian / Constantinopolitan lenses to the complete exclusion as theologically suspect and/or heretical of all other theological systems, even those equally ancient if more so. I reject that, of course.
>>80027828
>Or that Latin uses "persona" interchangeably to mean prosopon or hypostasis depending on context while recognizing that the two are distinct.
Persona is a Latin translation of hypostasis. Hypostasis is a Greek word, distinct from prosopon. But because the Latins used "persona", which means the Greek prosopon more accurately, to translate hypostasis, Greek theologians said the terms are synonymous.
Ousia's Latin synonym is substance.
>>80028235
That was prior to formalization of Trinitarian terms.
>>80028283
>Imagine if the Latin empire was successful in supplanting Orthodoxy by force and it took centuries for it to be overthrown would you really tell them that oh its no point struggling against the latins because the loss of our power means that Orthodoxy must be false.
If no one was teaching our theology for centuries, it would be false, yes.
>Look at the big difference between the views and characters of the Apostles
The Apostles all taught Orthodoxy. The only real clash was the Incident of Antioch, and that was resolved right then.
I grew up in a strict evangelical house and now im a trap.
Is this bad?
>>80028856
>Persona is a Latin translation of hypostasis. Hypostasis is a Greek word, distinct from prosopon. But because the Latins used "persona", which means the Greek prosopon more accurately, to translate hypostasis, Greek theologians said the terms are synonymous.
Case in point of >>80028757
>>80029023
It doesn't matter if a theology is equally ancient if it doesn't have a continuous assembly of adherents from Christ to today.
>>80028979
Yes. Nothing that can't be solved with true conversion, true repentance, etc. but a problem nonetheless
>>80028979
You should stop watching anime, senpai
>>80028979
Show pics and it is all good.
>>80029109
I did that already. In fact I was always deeply religious but I just couldn't shake this even with many hours of christian counseling and being shamed by everyone around me.
Not really sure what to do besides blowing my brains out.
>>80029229
I dont watch anime
>>80028856
And to address
> Persona is a Latin translation of hypostasis
Or alternatively, the West (e.g. St. Hippolytus, Justin Martyr, early Tertullian) had a distinct theological language from the start, which survives until now.
>>80029097
See above.
>>80016872
It wouldn't be such a bad place if we just got rid of all the Canadians living in it
>>80028952
>If no one was teaching our theology for centuries, it would be false, yes.
How so? Are you saying that if people manged to overcome worldly oppression to practice it the same it would be gone?
>The Apostles all taught Orthodoxy The only real clash was the Incident of Antioch, and that was resolved right then.
Which we only know because of the Church Fathers which is how we know they are church fathers. It runs into the same problem. The Catholics say the same thing as the Orthodox when it comes tot eh Apostles except with their group in its place.
>>80029320
Join a real church. Protestantism is a farce.
>>80029320
>Not really sure what to do besides blowing my brains out.
Don't do that. That's never the answer.
Are you still a trap?
Also what are your hobbies, as well as your occupation?
>>80012112
Haha, Christcucks.
>>80029320
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVreSpJm7f0
Prayer and fasting. Try getting Orthodox icons and listening to Orthodox hymns
You have a heavy cross, a very heavy one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0J2eDPIjU
>>80029606
Spooks are a spook.
Now where is your Stirner?
>>80029477
So joining a Catholic church and praying to Mary fixes my problems?
>>80029533
yes I am still, I've spent many years dealing with this and im kind of reaching a breaking point after losing my job as a machinist.
my hobbies are shitposting on /pol/ right now
Dealing with this is like the ultimate form of torture. I hate myself, everyone hates me and no matter how many times I repent and try to move on I still cant change what I feel inside.
>>80029606
>stirner
Have a (You) for your stale meme
>>80029404
>Or alternatively, the West (e.g. St. Hippolytus, Justin Martyr, early Tertullian) had a distinct theological language from the start, which survives until now.
Theological language wasn't standardized yet. For instance, Tertullian probably introduced "Trinity" as a theological term, but it took a long time before it was standardized. A term becomes standardized in definition when it has a specific definition in Liturgy.
>>80012112
Teligion has to be keept out of politics.
I'm a confirmed Cathlolic, although have fallen from the Faith. I feel skeptical, but I'm attempting to rekindle faith.
I have to say I feel skeptical of the Catholic Church(or big power structures in general) Which is part of why I admire Protestant churches. I don't like protestant churches however because they're usually built out of mobile homes, commercial megachurches, etc.
I'm having trouble conjoining my Americanness, and Catholicism
I know this might sound like a troll but I'm serious.
Also, is having relics, and statures from other religions as just tokens of their aesthetic/historical value, or perhaps just as good luck or something sinful?
>>80029847
>So joining a Catholic church and praying to Mary fixes my problems?
It's a start, though confession and the Eucharist will certainly help you more. I'd recommend an Orthodox church over a Catholic one, but honestly either one is a thousand times better than protestantism.
>>80030101
Go Orthodox, brother.
>Also, is having relics, and statures from other religions as just tokens of their aesthetic/historical value
No
>perhaps just as good luck
IDOLATER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>80029905
And again, the Latin Church has its own theology and theological language which has a lineage equally as ancient as (if not more so than) the Cappadocian/Constantinopolitan one, and continually held through the ages.
Thus by your standards it has to be taken on its own terms and not through the lens of the latter.
>>80029847
>yes I am still, I've spent many years dealing with this and im kind of reaching a breaking point after losing my job as a machinist.
Well, first things first. You need to stop. Seek counseling. If you need a religious angle, go talk to a catholic priest.
>my hobbies are shitposting on /pol/ right now
I would recommend finding some more hobbies.
Adding some /k/, /fit/, /tg/, /v/, /lit/, /out/, etc. can help you have a more balanced and fulfilled life. A life spent only focusing on politics (which can be a very depressing subject) is not a fullfilled one. And don't forget prayer. It's not a substitute for counseling, but it works great along side it.
>Dealing with this is like the ultimate form of torture. I hate myself, everyone hates me and no matter how many times I repent and try to move on I still cant change what I feel inside.
Nobody hates you or is judging you anon.
God loves you and only wants whats best for you. No matter what you do, he will always love you.
>>80029905
And
> Liturgy
This is what the Western church confesses and what I confess:
> It is truly meet and just, right and for our salvation, that we should at all times, and in all places, give thanks unto Thee, O holy Lord, Father almighty, everlasting God; Who, together with Thine only-begotten Son, and the Holy Ghost, art one God, one Lord: not in the oneness of a single Person, but in the Trinity of one substance. For what we believe by Thy revelation of Thy glory, the same do we believe of Thy Son, the same of the Holy Ghost, without difference or separation. So that in confessing the true and everlasting Godhead, distinction in persons, unity in essence, and equality in majesty may be adored.
>>80030101
>I'm a confirmed Cathlolic, although have fallen from the Faith. I feel skeptical, but I'm attempting to rekindle faith.
>I'm having trouble conjoining my Americanness, and Catholicism
I'm a classical liberal/ libertrian catholic, so I understand where your coming from. May I ask what exactly you mean when you say your skeptical about the massive entity? What about it exactly?
>>80030296
I havent checked, but I'm unsure if theres really a large Orthrodox movement in my Area of Texas.
Regardless I attended a Latin Mass thats literally just outside my neighborhood, I can walk to it. It was really nice, women wore veils as well. I felt out of place being there as an atheist being converted. I also don't speak latin, but the little booklets given out told us the prayers. I remember the dioceses(?) or priest talked about heresy and to defend against the mutations of the Faith.
Man it feels weird giving faith a chance now. It feels odd, but right.
>have a super strong urge to masturbate right now
Really don't want to guys, what can I do? Haven't done it in a while, when I do it, I feel like shit. I made a promise to God I wouldn't, and Everytime I touch it I know in my head i shouldn't, but I can't really stop.
>>80030647
There's not a large Orthodox movement anywhere in the states, senpai. But if you are going to remain Catholic, you're certainly going about it the right way.
>>80030804
St. Francis would throw himself into thorn bushes. Maybe give that a try.
>>80030345
Latin theology all has a standardized equivalence to Greek.
>>80030617
And the Orthodox Church fully agrees with that. "Person" here is equivalent to hypostasis, and "substance" is an equivalent to ousia.
>>80030631
>Classical liberal/libertarian Catholic
I feel thats where I stand currently, at least as a converting atheist. My skepticism perhaps comes from maybe a paranoia, or suspicion of large bureaucracies/entities and their influence. It may sound a bit out there, but I worry of corruption of the Church, and it being used for evil or injustice, or as a tool of those thirsty for power.
I know this sounds like tin-foil hattery, but it does make me weary.
>>80030132
Not sure what my family and friends would hate me more for, being a trap or going to catholic church. topkek
>>80030417
>You need to stop. Seek counseling.
I've "stopped" hundreds of times for as far back as I remember. It doesn't just stop like flipping the switch on a light. I've spent hundreds of hours in counseling over this. I pray everyday no matter how hopeless I feel. I have plenty of guns and have done gunsmithing in the past. I spend a lot of time outdoors and just got back from a trip to Arizona.
Well everyone hates me in my family and my area (which is a rural and kind of religious area) and I've sustained plenty of abuse.
I don't choose any of this, if I had a choice I would live a normal happy life or just die but I can't seem to bring myself to do that either.
>>80030804
getting away from the Internet is how. Cold showers, fun stuff, happy, fun music. Stay away from depictions of women/lewd stuff, The power of the visual wreaks havoc on men. I fall victim to it as well friend. I went an entire week without doing it recently, but I became bored and couldn't stop myself. I don't like the shame feeling. but I really want to stop.
>>80030897
And going back to the hypostasis - prosopon distinction it was standardized (and only with the neo-Chalcedonians) between Chalcedon and Constantinople II, so ex post facto insinuating that St Augustine was a Nestorian by the standards of neo-Chalcedonianism is wrong.
>>80030897
>>80031170
To add, ousia had two equivalent terms in Latin; beside substantia there was also essentia (also in the liturgical text I quoted). What I'm saying is that Latin <-> Greek terminology isn't always one-to-one.
>>80030889
Who?
>>80031125
I wasn't even on the internet desu. It was like my hands had a mind of their own. Luckily I walked around for a bit and now it's gone. Also, I thought like what if the topic of masturbation would come up with some non-Christian friends. If I tell them 'i don't do it and can't remember the last time I did' my testimony will be much stronger. Light of the world etc..
The frightening part is how little I cared about what God felt in the moment. Is this the power of Satan I wonder?
>>80031397
>Who
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Francis_of_Assisi
>>80031004
>Not sure what my family and friends would hate me more for, being a trap or going to catholic church. topkek
I know that feeling, brother. My family are all Southern Baptists.
>>80031530
>My family are all Southern Baptists.
yup thats what I was raised in too
