Hitler gets a lot of shit for marching east. But I don't think his plan was all that bad. Most people say he s foolish for starting a two front war. But that is not where the problem for the Nazis was it was more or less about the British targeting Hitlers synthetic oil fields. Which was then again the Nazis fault for targeting British civilians. Due to the fact that Germany is basically land locked due to the British blockade, all the resources the Nazis stored was depleting and depleting fast. So to solve this problem Hitler did what he did best and invade. His target was none other than the soviet union. The power of the soviet union was not as reconcilable as it is today but to the Germans they were little more than a poor baby country that has a ton of land and raw materials to aid the war effort. Basically like every country Hitler invaded, which went very well with little losses and lots of territorial gains.
i'm interested in what other people put in the same position would do being that everyone discredits Hitler as a military leader due to his decisions regarding the soviet union.
>>79977351
Stalin would have made it, if hitler didn't
>>79977351
Barbarossa was stupid.
>>79977565
I would like to know why you think that
>>79977565
It really was. IDK why Hitler fucked with Russia. Nothing would of happened between them.
Hitler could of cleansed ALL of Europe, not just Poland and Germany.
>>79977351
I'd add in that's basically correct and that soviet bessarabia gave the ussr a base to attack the oilfields in romania. Given more time and purge recovery, germany would have faced a much stronger oponent.
>>79977351
if hitla didn't invade when the russians occupants of poland were minimal Germany would've been invaded by 5 times there numbers from 2 additional fronts assuming Finland fell.
What killed all efforts was arrogantly storming Russia with no food in dead winter. Remember Stalin was akrwady fleeing to his little island East of the mainland.
>>79977351
FACT: Hitler did nothing wrong.
https://youtu.be/ft-dYaZKxwU
From his point of view russia was easy game.
>>79977351
The issue wasn't the invasion itself, it was decisions made during and before it. He expected it to be over by winter, so didn't supply winter equipment until it was too late, even though they had it in storage. They also paused to hold a few times when they should have just kept pushing. Also too heavy a focus on certain "iconic" wins instead of going for more strategic goals.
>>79977442
Really,i feel like the Russians would not want to stat shit with Germany. and why would they. they have everything that they could need in terms of resource
Hitler should have went for the caucasus' instead of going for moscow
>>79977637
Because
>two front war
>fucking with the US of A at the same time
>your allies are shit
>you already suffered heavy casulties during the previous invasions
>it's fucking Russia
>the Axis were losing North Africa
>>79977856
>even though they had it in storage
They didn't though, one of the main reasons why they didn't send winter clothing other than morale was to save resources.
>>79977351
They fucked up when then didn't design and make long range strategic bombers to bomb soviet manufacturing when they based it in Ural mountains. Which resulted in the soviets amassing a large number of tanks and aircraft once the Germans were delayed by the winter.
The germans also fucked up with the bf-109s only having enough range to have 15 minutes of flight time over England which resulted in massive losses of medium bombers like the He-111.
>>79977900
that is what Stalingrad was about a secure location to pivit to the oil fields
>>79977900
Uh that's what he did, most historians say that he should have focused on moscow..
>>79977565
>>79977738
I remember when I was in 8th grade, too... it took me a while to let go of the "hitler should have left russia alone" meme.
>>79977351
Reich was planned to fail earlier, than it started.
You cant seriously discuss the strategy of this war.
>>79978064
The soviet tanks and aircraft were built before the war after they didn't succeed with the Polish invasion in 1920.
To be honest operation Barbarossa was inevitable with Hitler at the realm. The national socialists absolutely despised communism, seeing it as dominated by Jewry (it was till Stalin purged most of them). Hitler only struck deals with Russia to give him free reign to pursue his policy of bringing old German lands back into the reich without the looming threat of Russian intervention. Lebensraum was a reason for the invasion as well as defeating Bolshevikism, you only have to look at nazi propaganda to see how much they hated it, and I can't blame them. So essentially it was a result of wanting to kill two birds with one stone and an undervaluation of Russia's military abilities.
>>79977351
>Hitler gets a lot of shit for marching east. But I don't think his plan was all that bad.
The plan wasn't bad, Germans are master planners by nature, they prepare, plan for multiple contingencies and flawlessly execute. The problem with Germans is that planning can only get you so far, introduce too many variables over a too big time span, and any plan ceases to work. Then you need to improvise, and one thing Germans suck at is improvising. So their approach to war worked great with countries that could be defeated relatively quickly, and the opening months of Barbarossa went magnificently too, but then it all started to fall apart.
>>79978130
Vienna was an international city Lenin and Trotsky went there since they were in exile and traveled a lot, Hitler and Freud were both Austrian/German citizens. Don't know about Tito. Not to mention that Vienna was a cheap place to print stuff.
There are audios of hitler with the finnish pm (i think) where he says he did not know the soviets had so many tanks and industrial capacity.
I think you are partly right op, he did what anyone in his position would find sensible.
>>79978240
Nah mate. They had relics that were destroyed. When the eastern front opened up, the soviet air-force was all but wiped out. They had to rely on US and British planes like the P-40 and spitfire that were being shipped until they could start making the Yaks, Migs, and Il-2s that could stand toe to toe with the Germans. As for the tanks they were old and out classed just as their planes, which were replaced after the manufacturing was shifted.
>>79977899
the soviet union was going to become a superpower within years regardless of whether they had aggressive intentions toward europe or not (they did) so hitler wanted to get a premptive strike in.
in reality the entire war and prewar situation (communism, nazism, anschlusses, revolutions) was about this dynamic between russia and germany. one of them had to fall just by nature of geopolitic
>>79978741
They didn't have industrial capacity, they were able to build so many tanks because they focused more on military and state than any other aspect. Most of the money to build up their pre war military came from exporting out all the food in Ukraine to the point of starvation.
>>79978741
i think his biggest flaw was not pulling out of Russia when winter hit and it was clear to see that the Russians were a worthy opponent
>>79977637
The whole war was stupid, Hitler simply lacked the industry and resources to compete with the West. Unless the US supported him in some way he had zero chance to win. The US could outproduce him alone let alone with the UK and USSR, Africa was a doomed front due to the dominance of the Royal Navy and the US produced liberty ships faster than the U-boats could sink them meaning that Britain would never be starved. The end result is that by 1941 Hitler was doomed he could attack the USSR and be ground into oblivion or wait for Britain and inevitably the US to attack him with the USSR invading when he was distracted.
>>79977847
Can't you be arrested for posting this kind of stuff? Genuine question
>>79978889
They had to rely on foreign planes because their own plane organization was struck by the effects of the purge. And their tanks were some of the best during WW2 especially the T-34.
>>79978927
>>79978990
now what really screwed Germany was declaring war on America
>>79978889
They had to rely on foreign planes because their own plane organization was struck by the effects of the purge. And their tanks were the the best heavy armored tanks during WW2 especially the T-34.
>"to: frontline commander
>no more inquiries will be made about winter equipment"
>from: OKH
what did they mean by this
>>79979268
i was about to say Muh freedom of speech but i just noticed he was a kraut
>>79977351
It's downright impossible to decently occupy all that land with enough speed to decapitate the enemy. The continent is a giant wide plain after the Carpathes so you have to go real slow without leaving pockets of resistance that will fuck your already trash supply lines
>>79979346
germany entered the war because of pearl harbor though, didn't you?
>>79979268
they guy is german himself, or do you mean the pepe?
In both cases: no.
>>79977565
Splitting your forces was even more stupid. Krauts could have made it to Moscow and annihilated the Soviet spirit.
Better luck next time, Bruder.
>>79979298
I'm not saying they had shitty tanks at the latter part of the war, I agree they had some of the best designs. What I'm saying is that when the front opened up, they had shit. As for reason their air force was shit is secondary to the fact that it was shit and ineffective when the Germans started their push. It wasn't until later they had the capacity and experiences to design and build their own combat worthy aircraft.
>>79979607
japan bombed pear harbor which caused the US and Japan to go to war and after that Hitler backed up the japs and declared war on America
>>79979268
Not anymore it seems, if they start doing this shit the mask will fall even for the most ignorant person.
>>79979784
The US forced Japan's hand by cutting their oil. Conflict was inevitable.
>>79979763
>I'm not saying they had shitty tanks at the latter part of the war, I agree they had some of the best designs.
Huh? But the T-34 was an early design, their later tanks were basically the same but with harder armour since the Germans were working on building tanks which could pierce the T-34. Even then the T-34 was the main tank to be produced by the Soviets.
>>79980013
i don't disagree with that im just stating facts
>>79980186
I just like to point that out, wasn't anything against your point.
>>79977738
oh that build up of the biggest airborne and transport planes on the soviet-german border was nothing and was just friendly bantz.
>>79980110
They didn't build many of them early on due to the Soviets shifting their manufacturing to the Ural Mountains.
I don't really understand why people assume that if hitler took Moscow the war was instantly over, stalin was absolutely fucking nuts and power hungry, I can't imagine him considering surrendering
>>79977351
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClR9tcpKZec
just let the man speak!
All thanks to General Frost, Colonel Mud and the signature zerg rush tactics. :^)
>Battle on Ice
>Napoleon
>Adolf
When will the whities learn?
>>79980013
Well we didn't really like the part where they attacked our long time ally's and the atrocities they were pulling in China, can't blame them for not wanting to fuel Japan's war machine with our oil
>>79981017
oh no forget about unit 731 my good goy the nazis were way worse
>>79981345
Allow me to play devil's advocate but by now those guys saved many more lives than they took
>>79981345
Imagine today if we never stopped cutting oil, we'd be getting shit similar to us giving weapons in the Middle East
Also the fact that the leader of that unit got off Scot free still pisses me off
>>79981495
who are you referring to
>>79981017
Took you long enough to finally cut the oil.
>>79981671
The guys in unit 731 who got pardoned in exchange for their research
>>79981564
yeah its disgusting. He exchanged their "research" for his freedom
>>79981787
I think the findings are more or less to enhance the effectiveness of weapons. But i guess it in some way advanced Fields of medicine but none the less is inexcusable
>>79979943
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great
>>79980753
this is some awesome propaganda
>>79977351
Actually, it cost him the war by not listening to his generals.
- Germans were first to have jet planes, which would easily dominate the sky. But Hitler decided to use them as bombers (they were not precise enough cause of the speed).
Air superiority == dead Britain.
- Even though U boats had great success rate, somehow they didnt focus much on that part. They could have easily made dozens of these submarines to break the supply line for the British
>>79982387
They made ton of u boats the problem for the Germans is that the us discovered radar
>>79978589
> cheap place to print stuff
And the stuff is being printed right before ww2 is?
> just a (((coincidence)))
Yeah, right.
>>79983013
I meant.
> ww1
Of course.
Hitler should have slaughtered the anglo dogs at dunkirk instead of try to make peace.
His biggest mistake was thinking anglos were human.
>>79983177
He was in fact an anglo agent.
Just like bin laden was american agent. And they share the death-by-photoshop trait.
>>79982077
The unit was entirely focused around bacteria and biological warfare, there's videos online of the doctors recalling there experiences, one doctor told a story about how they did 6 experiments on a Chinese man which includes cutting one of his arms off. I'm left too assume in good old unit 731 style that he was alive for it all with not a single drop of morphine or pain killer
It's a damn shame they destroyed so much evidence of the unit when the soviets were advancing but I guess they never expected the doctors to speak out
>>79983472
Also chemical warfare research
get fucked, germany would lose even if they managed to get moscow and/or leningrad
>>79983805
1v1 it would have been over in just a couple of years m8.
>>79977351
>But I don't think his plan was all that bad
It was nothing short of terrible from the very beginning, and setup to fail, even without the help of the US
Once the first surprise passed, the Soviet started to laminate Nazis - and Japan on the other side.
Operation Bagration = The worst German rout EVER, after this Wermacht no longer existed as an organized army
Soviet invasion of Mandchuria = 1.000.000 Japanese to confront Russian, 910.000 dead, the wiped the entire Japanese army. This is the real cause of the Japan surrender. 3 weeks after you would have soviets in Tokyo.
>>79986458
forgot pic
>>79986493
I don't think there'd be such a great loss if russia was nuked, but what scares me is what the radiation will do to them, look at the babushkas of Chernobyl and what happened to japan. I really don't want to see the result of it.
>>79988867
> I don't think there'd be such a great loss if russia was nuked
Don't push your luck, rodrigo.
I like you, but I can reevaluate my points.
The plan wasn't all that bad, I mean the Wehrmacht successfully encircled whole russian armies who were ordered to stand their ground and thus not able to fall back to avoid encirclement.
The offensive started June 22, 41 and they even reached the outskirts of Moscow in early December and by then the Wehrmacht had captured millions of soldiers.
There are a lot of reasons why Barbarossa wasn't successful, I don't even know them all:
>the fact that even with millions of soldiers being captured, the red army still had more manpower and material (tanks, planes etc.) than the Wehrmacht
>a lot of russian industry was saved by relocating it far away, out of reach from any german advances, which allowed them to produce even more material
>the Japanese outright stated that they would not fight the Russians, thus not open a second front for them to deal with because they were focused on conquering China and Southeast Asia territorries. This allowed the Russians to relocate a lot of troops to the front lines which were eventually able to stop the offensive altogether
>the weather conditions turned to absolute shit in late October, turning the whole country into a pit of mud, streets turned into mud rivers. The offensive relied on quick movement for the blitzkrieg being effective which was not possible anymore, Tanks were lost in the mud, some sunk in so deep they couldn't move out without external help of some sort because of their weight and shit.
>the russian winter was so damn cold and the operation basically came to a hold because of that as well. The Wehrmacht didn't have enough winter clothing to keep themselves warm and many casualties were attributed to freezing.
>there are still more reasons, but I can't remember
>>79977847
this video shows why from their perspective it didn't seem like a bad idea
but that doesn't mean it wasn't a bad idea
in comparison
it doesn't seem like a bad idea to drink bleach if you are a baby (because babies are stupid)
but that doesn't mean it isn't a bad idea to drink bleach
Bit off-topic, but I really would want to wake up in a parallel universe where a white, European USA, a white British Empre, a white Russia and a white Kaiserreich are united in the fight against leftism and ridding the world of degeneracy.
Unfortunately such a world will never be and the elite now work even on erasing a white, christian Europe from history. And they are taking our freedoms every day. Nothing will be left for us...
>>79989350
IVAN DONT LISTEN TO THAT MONKEY
What are some good books on the Eastern Front?
t. clueless
Already read Forgotten Soldier, but it was more of a memoir than an accurate account of the battles on the Eastern Front. Still based af though.
>>79977351
i fall into the category that his drug regiment was interfering with his judgement.
much like all of fascism - a complete disconnect from reality
and a false belief of unrealistic superiority.
>>79994619
>drug regiment
You mean the Black Watch?
>>79995057
lol i guess.
the same thing you guys were on in ww2
but intraveniously
LOL so great just remembering while typing it
hitler the addict.
perfetto!
fin
I heard that Hitler invaded Russia because one of his closest officials informed him that Russia was planning to invade Germany in 1942 so he wanted to get a head start while he could.
I think it would have been so much easier to take the eastern land without the USA supplying Russia through Lend-Lease.
>>79989350
Oh don't worry I don't think it'd be any loss if brazil was nuked either
>>79977351
>t. Alberto Barbarossa
>>79977351
>Which was then again the Nazis fault for targeting British civilians.
Actually it was the British that bombed civilians in night time raids first. One stray Axis bomber dropped its payload on London making the Allied total war bombings official publicly
>>79979298
jesus christ not another brainwashed t34 faggot
>>79980753
>1916
How'd that winter work out for you in WW1?
Not so good. :^)
>>79979666
>Krauts could have made it to Moscow and annihilated the Soviet spirit
This is not how it works with slavs
>>79977351
>>79977442
>>79977637
>>79977738
Operation barbarossa was not a choice stalin was preparing an invasion whihc would have taken place 14 days after hitler bumrushed his forces that stood at the border. This came out when documents were reveealed post stalins death.
>>79999425
>the French
There's your problem.
>>80000084
>implying French didn't fuck all Europe back then
>>79977899
WRONG
This Swiss bro here: >>79977442 is 100% Correct.
Proof you may ask? Here it is mother fuckers. Watch below. It is Hitler meeting with Mannerheim. Hitler indicates that the Soviets were building massive armaments with over 35,000 tanks. Soviets were planning a full on invasion to spread communism in the whole of Europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8raDPASvq0
>>80000713
In more ways than one.
Dunkirk was where Hitler threw the war away in the name of Political Correctness.
>>79991840
>>the Japanese outright stated that they would not fight the Russians, thus not open a second front for them to deal with because they were focused on conquering China and Southeast Asia territorries. This allowed the Russians to relocate a lot of troops to the front lines which were eventually able to stop the offensive altogether
They got BTFO when they tried to early on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol
>>79977899
why?
because as communists they weren't real successful with much, and needed to use expansionism to maintain power
>why did Hitler mess with the Soviet Union?
Keep in mind the Soviet Union STRUGGLED against Finland and LOST a war against fucking Poland.
The Germans would have fully expected a walk in the park.
>>80002159
because the world was at war...
people are greedy and want to capitalize.
very ironic that the socialist regime would want to CAPITALIZE ON AN OPPORTUNITY.
here you go
>>79977351
Then why did he go for Stalingrad instead of the oil down south?
>>79980110
He's saying the most common Soviet tank at the start of the war wasn't the T-34. It was the T-26 (11,000 produced) and the BT series (about 10,000 produced). You don't here anything about these tanks because they were basically all destroyed in the first six months of the war. And they were pretty terrible in comparison to the PZ III and IV used by the Germans.