The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun.
Can we please stop pretending that the Second Amendment contains an unfettered right for everyone to buy a gun? It doesn’t, and it never has.
The Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution doesn’t just say Congress shall not infringe the right to “keep and bear arms.” It specifically says that right exists in order to maintain “a well-regulated militia.” Even the late conservative Supreme Court Associate Justice Antonin Scalia admitted those words weren’t in there by accident. Oh, and the Constitution doesn’t just say a “militia.” It says a “well-regulated” militia.
What did the Founding Fathers mean by that? We don’t have to guess because they told us. In Federalist No. 29 of the Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton explained at great length precisely what a “well-regulated militia” was, why the Founding Fathers thought we needed one, and why they wanted to protect it from being disarmed by the federal government.
>>79962297
Nope. 2nd Amendment says that because we need a well regulated militia, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
End of discussion. Thanks for losing again, I get a free yogurt every time I humiliate a gungrabber.
>>79962297
>Shall
1 - fuck off
2- get better at English grammar. Commas are there for a reason
>>79962297
>lets write down this list of rights
>ok
>"hey i'm one guy, here's what I think about the list"
>DON'T LOOK AT THE LIST EVERYONE ONE GUY SAID SOMETHING SO THAT MATTERS
Everyone man in america is part of the militia
>>79962604
That proves there already is a "well-regulated milita" and you don't need AR-15s.
>>79962297
>be gypsynigger
>try to explain the us constitution to americans
kek
Why are you wasting bandwidth with this garbage, when your sisters/mother need it to whore themselves out on webcams?
>>79962297
English isn't your first language, is it.
>>79962297
"Every citizen has the right to own weapons at home and use them, either for common defense, his own defense, against any illegal agression which would put in jeopardy the life, members or freedom of one or several citizens"
Article X of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, 1789.
That article was discarded in the final draft for the following reasons :
"The right declared in discarded article X was obvious in its nature, and one of the main guarantors of political and civil freedom, that no other institution can replace."
The writers of the declaration outlined that owning weapons was a natural right, existing everywhere since the dawn of time, making it "a superior and unyielding principle, which forces itself not only upon the authority of a determined state, but to the authorities of all states."
Try to argue the wording of this, gypsy.
>>79962472
first post, best post
>>79962297
gypsy
>>79962707
>>79962710
Nice ad hom you're proving my argument
>>79962716
Not second amendament
>>79962297
What the fuck business is it of yours you worthless gypsy?
>>79962297
>gypsy intellectual's wise interpretation
The First Amendment doesn't grant an individual right to free speech either, if we are being logically consistent here.
>>79962297
Go back to your day job picking copper from cadavers and houses you break into being a shill ain't your call
>>79962297
>Third worlder trying to tell me what my rights are
lmao, call me when your house finally has a working toilet installed
>>79962995
>Not second amendament
The American constitution applies only to the US, as such you have no reason to care about it. The declration of the rights of man and of the citizen is universal, it gives rights to all people all over the world. And it clearly states that all citizens have the right to own weapons and use them for their defense. Which includes American citizens.
Now try to argue this or fuck off.
Prove me wrong.
Back then the word regulated meant "organized". Today it means "controlled" with an implication of the control being federal. A standing army was actually against what the founding fathers had imagined.
Any able bodied man is part of the militia and has an unalienable right to bear arms equal to that of the government. It's really not that hard to understand. How did you even get Internet in your trailer?
>>79962297
A well regulated militia is any citizen over the age of 18 that has signed up for selective services. We do have the right to own guns because the Constitution states that should our government overstep its boundaries, it is the DUTY of the American people to overthrow it.
Get fucked, gun grabber.
>>79962704
>you don't need AR-15s
We also don't need faggots on this board yet here you are.
>>79962297
Here you go faggot.
>>79963335
>The American constitution applies only to the US, as such you have no reason to care about it.
>you have no reason to care about it
>but I do
There's your problem.
>>79963337
2/10 Ms paint
"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
>>79963550
It's an improvement out of a 1/10 jpg artifact
>>79962297
your opinions of what is or is not a right in my country are irrelevant. stay small kid
How would the militia be well-regulated if people didn't have guns? Please look up what the fuck well-regulated meant in an 18th century context
Shall. Not. Be. Infringed.
>>79963550
Yeah, basically you are admitting that you are a retarded faggot pathetically attempting to troll Americans over subjects that have nothing to do with you or your shithole.
Kill yourself.
And to everyone else, stop replying to that son of a whore. Let that worthless thread sink.
>>79963491
>polish intellectuals
Back to cleaning shit
>>79963592
Your point?
>>79962472
I can't even handle when shills get BTFO this hard. Makes me giggle!
>>79963685
You are not living in the 18th century tho
>>79963706
>muslim flips out
Color me surprised, intelligent discussions are not for you
>>79962297
>AIDS isn't harmful
>>79962297
>The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun.
yes it does, buttfucker.
This is just more leftist "interpretation" of rights to have everyone else's rights revolve around leftist OPINIONS of what the rest of us can or can't do.
Now go back to being a gypsy who robs the paleskins
>>79962297
>he's never read the Federalist papers
You are showing just how stupid you really are
Sage
>>79962297
>Euroshit armed with plastic knives tries to explain American gun laws meme
>>79963708
>Back to cleaning shit
I'm an American on vacation my gypsy friend. What fucking Polak knows about the US constitution?
>>79963292
kek
>>79962472
>>79962507
It's a conditional statement, even Scalia said that the prefatory clause (need for well-regulated militia) is the clear reason for the objective clause (right to bear arms).
>>79963850
It doesn't, it only specifically says that it exists in order to maintain “a well-regulated militia.”
>>79963816
What is even your intelligent discussion? your entire premise is misunderstanding the quote and then responding to the laziest posts, ignoring everything else.
Thats not very master-race like
Guys, can we talk about something here? I think it's really important.
>The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun.
This is where OP's post should have ended, because he's exactly right. Anyone disagreeing with this is a fucking retard that needs to go back to school
Because the 2nd amendment DOESN'T give you the right to own a gun.
It PROTECTS that right, and prevents the government from taking that right away from you. And that is a right that
SHALL
NOT
BE
INFRINGED
>>79963292
Nice
>>79962297
Oh look everyone, a Romanian scholar of the American constitution.
>Opinion discarded
>>79962297
How does someone say "shall not be infringed" in gypsy?
You typed your post in English, so we can rule out the language barrier. Maybe youre just retarded?
>Very harmful
It's not even fucking loaded.
>>79962297
your not american so shut your gypo faggot suck hole. nobody cares what you think about our constitution
>>79964025
Mostly ignoring ad hom which most posts are, see>>79964132
>>79963974
Exactly. This the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Glad you agree.
Saged because unlike some people, I don't actually get paid for this bullshit.
>>79964037
FUCKING THIS.
Rights are not "given" to you. You are born with them.
>>79964210
Once more, not even providing arguments, just lazily baiting.
Your country deserves its reputation.
>>79964152
Again, it clearly says it only exists in order to maintain a well regulated milita.
>You typed your post in English, so we can rule out the language barrier. Maybe youre just retarded?
>youre
>>79964210
>accuses others of ad hominem
>half of their own posts consist of just that
>>79963951
Who the fuck goes on vacation in Poland?
What a sad place to go on "vacation".
>>79964018
Yea, well regulated as in "in working order" and militia as in "citizens of that country capable of fighting"
>>79964361
Why is the reason for it's existence relevant? It exists... If the first part had been 'We fucking like pie, that's why...' the right of the people to keep and bear arms STILL would not be allowed to be infringed.
>>79964361
Exactly, see
>>79964465
>>79962297
Kill yourself, commie.
>>79964361
You are
Youre
Youre welcome.
Read it again
>>79964361
You are
Youre
Youre welcome.
Read it again....slower this time.
>>79964465
That doesn't make sense historically. There has always been a distinction between the regular army and militia.
Balkanization was a mistake.
>>79962297
Well regulated means well armed and in proper working order, ready to go to war. A militia is a self-armed army that is formed on an as needed basis, as opposed to a REGULAR army, which is one that is kept in a state of readiness and equipped by the state.
So in the most strict interpretation, the 2nd ensures that the citizens can own and have weapons of war so that they can create a fighting force, that is self-armed, if ever needed.
>>79962297
My right to bear arms in a state militia has been violated because I'm a disabled trans-canine who literally cannot qualify for any branch of the military.
Checkmate liberals
>>79964628
>>79964684
You're getting off track. It's you're. " ' " replaces the letter "a". Learn some grammar bro
>>79962297
>Very harmful
I don't see what the problem is..... Gun does not have a mag inserted.I The flag is more dangerous since the AR-15 is essentially a plastic bat when without ammo and bayonet.
>>79962472
FPBP. Well done.
>>79962297
seems like this is really none of your business.
>>79964694
>There has always been a distinction between the regular army and militia.
Yes. In the sense that the militia consists of the people who'se right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and the army consists of government employees that are issued weapons by said government.
Are you intentionally trying not to understand it or something?
>>79964694
You're right.
The military is controlled by the government, and the militia is controlled by the people.
The army / military doesn't need to have their right to bear arms protected, because they're being given those armaments by the government itself. The populace, the militia, do though, because they own those armaments.
>>79962297
romania
have we bombed you niggers yet
you on the list now nignog
>>79962297
>2nd Amendment doesn't give you the right to own a gun
You can't be given a right. You can only be guaranteed it. That's what the 2nd Amendment does. Guarantee your right to own a weapon, and no this is not limited to just guns or knives or sticks, to defend your life and property, and your nation if the government is tyrannical or a foreign force invades.
Now shoo.
RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE not RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE IN THE MILITIA
>>79964726
The second paragraph is partially correct. However, armies are composed of citizens too if we were to think like that.
>>79964832
You can't kill people with a flag, can you?
>>79963974
No shit m8
The well regulated militia serves two purposes
1. Scares the fuck out of invaders, because you can't just walk into a town and run around raping the women since every house could have guns in it
2. Scares the fuck out of the government, because they can't oppress a people that can fight back
>>79962297
In context of 2A well regulated means "well armed & trained". Militia refers to men between the ages of 18-45. So if you want to get all literal, 2A DEMANDS that all men in that age group own a military rifle and be trained in it's use. But courts have interpreted it to mean that civilians can own anything short of a full auto weapon, and we can own those if we pay the ATF a $200 tax.
Stupid fucking fags.
>>79965028
You can:
>impale them
>beat them to death with the pole
>suffocate them with the flag
>sharpen the pole and use as a spear
Well regulated in the context of the time that it was written essentially meant "functional"
The militia was all fighting age males
When a militia was called, all members were required to bring their own firearms
Therefore to be well regulated or functional, all fighting age males had to own their own firearms
Therefore...
SHALL
NOT
BE
INFRINGED
Just gonna leave this here
>>79964892
>>79964897
>Yes. In the sense that the militia consists of the people who'se right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and the army consists of government employees that are issued weapons by said government.
>You're right. The military is controlled by the government, and the militia is controlled by the people.
And ultimately the government is controlled by the people, that's how democracy works. You can refer to the army as to "a well-regulated milita".
>>79965124
Full auto and foreign weapon ban lift when?
I want to own a fucking 2 burst AN-94, which is too new (and largely only made outside the US)
>>79965028
>However, armies are composed of citizens too if we were to think like that.
Armies are not militias, and the Second Amendmend of the United States Constitution does not state that armies are necessary to the security of a free state. Militia are.
>>79962297
can you fags stop replying to shit threads like this? this thread pops up every few fucking days
sage
>>79965328
The people don't control the government retard, we just elect the government
Also, it's a republic, not a democracy you dumbass.
A well regulated bowel being necessary to the sanctity of the bodily humours, the right of the people to shit in the street shall not be infringed.
Now tell me that Pajeet is not allowed to shit in the street because his bowels are playing up.
>It specifically says that right exists in order to maintain “a well-regulated militia.”
That's right, the amendment exists for a reason.
>>79965028
Would you expect them to be made of aliens? Citizens being in a regular army is irrelevant to the definition of militia. A militia is still armed with personally owned weapons and formed when needed.
>>79962297
SHALL
>>79965028
>The second paragraph is partially correct.
So is the first paragraph.
Cry more.
>>79965353
>Full auto and foreign weapon ban lift when?
Literally never... Maybe you can have the Hughes amendmend scrapped but the gun lobby (such ironing) will never allow you lads to import cheap(er) firearms from Europe and Asia... Why don't you just buy Ruger, goy?
>>79965502
NOT
>>79962297
Something something about my cold dead hands
>>79962297
The bit about the "well-regulated militia" isn't even part of the rights outlined in the 2nd amendment, it's just the reason for them. Whether you think this reasoning is flawed or not is irrelevant, as the message of it is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
Fucking gypo can't into basic comprehension
>>79965502
NOT
>>79965500
Nice numbers, burger bro
>>79965328
>And ultimately the government is controlled by the people, that's how democracy works.
We're a republic you dumb fuck.
>You can refer to the army as to "a well-regulated milita".
No you can't. Standing militaries and militias and are entirely different concepts.
Why is every conversation about the 2A devolve into leftists attempting to obfuscate the simple meaning of clearly defined words?
>>79962704
An AR-15 is a rifle platform that looks scary but is functionally identical to any other semi-auto rifle.
Every time you pull the trigger, it fires.
If it was made illegal, do you think the anti-gun stuff would only concern the evil black rifle, the AR-15? Hell no, it'd be ALL military surplus semi-auto rifles.
Then ALL semi auto rifles.
Then ALL semi-auto pistols.
Then revolvers
Then bolt actions.
Then fucking nothing.
I don't even like the AR that much, but people actually do USE them in this country for coyote and varmint control, hog hunting (albeit usually in a higher caliber than .223) and even deer hunting.
And if it goes away, it's just the first step.
Also, it's really fucking disgusting that these pieces of shit are trying to pin Islamic terror on American gun ownership. FUCK YOURSELVES, shills.
>>79965365
>Constitution does not state that armies are necessary to the security of a free state. Militia are.
Where? I want to read that.
>>79965472
A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them”. The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws (and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority vote. Some lawmaking is done this way, on the state and local levels, but it’s only a tiny fraction of all lawmaking. But you are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy.
>>79962297
Should have thrown in a blm flag under harmful to faggots
>>79962704
You can't have a well regulated militia without having the means of fighting back. Since every man is in the militia, we should all have the capability(with ease) an AR15. By not doing so, that eliminates a well-regulated militia.
>>79962472
Keep 'em swallowing anon
>>79965672
>Why is every conversation about the 2A devolve into leftists attempting to obfuscate the simple meaning of clearly defined words?
Because that's how they "win".
They make words the reason for bigotry, and weapons the reason for violence.
>>79965672
>Why is every conversation about the 2A devolve into leftists attempting to obfuscate the simple meaning of clearly defined words?
Because if you have to take the amendmend at face value, you can't really reach a conclusion other than that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
They don't start these debates to reach that conclusion, anon.
>>79965527
>gun lobby
Doesn't exist.
The meager donations the NRA gives to politicians don't constitute any sort of established lobby on par with shit like the pharmaceutical lobby or the military-industrial lobby. Bloomberg outspent a decades worth of contributions by the NRA in one year, by tens of millions of dollars.
>>79964380
It's not that bad. The mountains in the south are comfy and there's a ton of qts in the north by the sea.
>>79965672
>We're a republic you dumb fuck
See>>79965752
>>79965752
>“A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them
Exactly
We elect officials that are now responsible for us.
We elect the people that control us for x years. If we don't like how they control us for x years then we pick someone else next time around.
The GOVERNMENT however, is not controlled by the people. The people are controlled by the government, they just change in up every now and then.
>>79962297
>Romania
Oh I'm sorry for a second I thought your opinion actually mattered, gypsy.
>>79965752
>But you are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy.
Called a Republic, which is still different than a direct democracy.
Stop intentionally obfuscating topics you disingenuous profligate.
>>79963708
I also love how you replied to my insult comment but haven't refuted the factual claim I presented you with >>79963450
Get fucked gypsy
>>79965942
See.
>>79966013
You dumb fuck.
>>79962297
=SAYS THE FAG FROM ROMANIA.
YOU DONT GET AN OPINION NIG
>>79965888
desu I think it'd be even more hilarious if after shall not be infringed they wrote something like "ever, so stop arguing about it, this right is extremely important for a free people"
But in all honesty, that's why they wrote shall not be infringed. It was their way of KNOWING this debate would come up, and telling the gun grabbers to fuck off.
>>79965752
>Where? I want to read that.
>"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
>Militia being necessary to the security of a free state
Note it doens't say army. Also, how did you miss that it says that?
>>79965859
>Doesn't exist.
They do though. That's how Clinton passed the assault weapons ban the first time.. With the support of Bill Ruger and some other domestic firearms manufacturers that LOVED the idea of banning 'assault' weapons, only so they could sell more semi-autos without banned features..
IIRC he even pushed for magazine capacity limits, but only on new production magazines. While he had countless 30rnd mini-14 magazines on shelf.
>NRA
Lmao, I'm not talking about the meme-lobby you hear about in liberal media.. I'm talking about the actual manufacturers lobby that don't give a shit about your rights, but only about their profits. Why do you think you're not allowed to import an AK-pattern rifle from China or former Soviet states, while American manufacturers ARE allowed to import them as parts kits, modify them slightly to meet 922 compliance, only to sell the exact same gun with the exact same function at a higher price?
For safety reasons? Because they like your rights? Or perhaps something else is going on....
>>79966029
I've addressed that a few times ITT, I see you bothered reading all the thread.
>>79966013
The American form of government has been called a “democracy” by leading American statesmen and legal commentators from the Framing on. It’s true that some Framing-era commentators made arguments that distinguished “democracy” and “republic”; though even that first draws the distinction between “pure democracy” and a “republic,” only later just saying “democracy.” But even in that era, “representative democracy” was understood as a form of democracy, alongside “pure democracy”, see Noah Webster, you will then understand.
Guys. Let's stop being retards. The only people that should be allowed to have guns are the government. Citizens don't need guns when the government has them. We can trust them. They wouldn't do anything to hurt us if we just let them have all the weapons and we have 0 means of defending ourselves from them. Not that we'd need to because the government is good.
>>79966370
>That's how Clinton passed the assault weapons ban the first time
You do realize that was 20 years ago, yes?
>Or perhaps something else is going on....
There's a political party dedicated to making gun ownership as complicated and cost prohibitive as possible since they can't outright ban them?
>>79966601
>You do realize that was 20 years ago, yes?
You do realize that Ruger still exists and still has profit margins as their main concern, yes?
>There's a political party dedicated to making gun ownership as complicated and cost prohibitive as possible since they can't outright ban them?
Lmao, you're the best goy.
They're about to get rid of Jerry Brown over this kek
>>https://www.change.org/p/the-people-of-california-recall-governor-jerry-brown-d7bfe5d7-0f16-4462-9047-895aafd776bd
>>79966370
Thanks.
>>79966537
You lost yourself through contradictions but I'll pretend I didn't see that. You can't trust the government which YOU have chosen, what makes you think you can trust yourself after all if it was to use your logic.
>>79962297
>Antonia Scalia is a source
>Trusting a SHITSKIN who only got his job to due MUH RACISM
Topest of keks
>>79966462
>I've addressed that a few times ITT
And were immediatley refuted.
>The American form of government has been called a “democracy” by leading American statesmen and legal commentators from the Framing on.
And it's still a Republic.
>see Noah Webster, you will then understand.
See that intentionally obfuscating definitions hasn't been working for any of the posts you made in this thread, you will then understand that you're a dumb fuck.
>>79962297
>The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun.
Stopped reading there.
>>79962297
>Page 1
>110 replies
>60 Posters
Use the email field you fuckheads.
Also low blow Belgium- most of burgers work the day shift.
>The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun.
"The right to keep and bear arms"
>Can we please stop pretending that the Second Amendment contains an unfettered right
For ordinances? Arguably no. For arms of the common usage? Arguably yes.
Combined with the 14th Amendment incorporation doctrine, this also applies to state and local restrictions.
>for everyone to buy a gun?
Rights and privileges may be stripped in certain circumstances when it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Until then, innocence is presumed before guilt, and people are allowed all liberties until due process is undertaken to take them away.
>It doesn’t
Citation needed
>and it never has.
the 2a affirmed a right that already exist, and was used by groups private, state, and continental to fight off the British and defend themselves.
>The Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution doesn’t just say Congress shall not infringe the right to “keep and bear arms.”
>It specifically says that right exists in order to maintain “a well-regulated militia.”
A [X], being necessary for the [Y], [Z] shall not be infringed.
Z=right of the people to keep and bear arms.
The draft history of the amendment should clarify this for you.
>well-regulated” militia.
Proper working order or operation, group of free able bodied armed males.
See:Athens, Georgia.
>Romania telling America what their freedoms are
Fuck off lmao
>>79966680
>You do realize that Ruger still exists and still has profit margins as their main concern, yes?
You do realize this doesn't change that you're pointing to 20 year old history to suggest a current theme, yes?
>Lmao, you're the best goy.
Thanks, Netherlands, you would know.
>>79966690
CALIFORNIA DO IT
>>79962995
Neither are Hamilton's scribbles.
>>79962297
The US Supreme Court disagrees with you, Romania. Furthermore, the intent was to have an armed population so that you could form a well regulated militia. It makes it a lot easier if you have a population that you do not have to teach how to use arms.
A well feed army, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to buy and eat food shall not be infringed.
Now who had the right to eat food? Just the army or the people?
>>79966998
>>79966985
>>79966943
>>79966932
>>79966926
>>79966899
>>79966830
>>79966818
Fuck off. You should stopped reading once you realized the Poster was Romanian AKA Gypsy or he was talking about Scalia AKA Shitskin
>>79962297
Fuck off Romania.
>>79962297
I don't give a fuck because I find it irrelevant what a group of 200 year old men found important. I'll own a gun whether the government says I can or not.
>>79962507
>Not
>>79966899
>You do realize this doesn't change that you're pointing to 20 year old history to suggest a current theme, yes?
History tends to repeat itself... If you honestly believe that US gun manufacturers don't love the 922(r) compliance rules, you're quite naive.
>>79963550
Then why don't you come over here and try to take our guns, you dumb faggot. What? You don't own any? I guess you'll get BTFO if you try.
The US constitution is a deeply flawed document that allows for the oppression of minorities and women. Want to trample on the rights of GLBTQ individuals? You're protected by the first amendment. Want to shoot a POC on his way home with a hoodie and a bag of skittles? Sure, lie and say he attacked you. Hell, you fought like hell to keep your military grade high capacity assault weapons even though the second amendment was written when there was only muskets.
That document was written by bigoted, misogynistic, racist slave owners 200 years ago. It has no business acting as a governing document in modern times.
>>79967251
(You)
>>79966462
It is a republic with democratic elements.
A republic first- built by legal entities (states) themselves incorporated under their own constitutions, whose delegates- voted in by a limited electorate pool- went to incorporate into a larger union under a constitution.
It is a democracy second:
>The franchise of voting was slowly expanded after the ratification of the individual state constitutions and the US Constitution
>Voting is limited in various ways:
>>A majority nor supermajority cannot vote away presumption of innocence until proven guilt beyond a reasonable doubt
>>A majority nor supermajority of individuals alone can amend the constitution
>>A majority nor supermajority of individuals alone need be require to elect a president
>>Even in legislation, the representatives of a state (the Senate) and the representatives of a majority (the House) are both required for it to pass
>>79967464
Nigger
>>79967464
leave troll
>>79967251
Wasn't one of the founding fathers LGBTQ+? One was asexual he never got married I forget which one tho.
>>79967251
>high capacity assault weapons even though the second amendment was written when there was only muskets.
i love when people say this because it just proves what a fucking retard you are
you know that galileo and da vinci had devised plans for flying objects centuries before it ever actually happened right? thinking that you know more now then the framers knew then is a classic fallacy. oh and check your flag faggot
>>79967115
>If you read your enemy's post, they win.
>>79962297
Except where it does.
>>79962472
is this really how dense these rednecks are? damn
>>79962472
FPBP
P
B
P
>>79967563
>>79967251
Leaves fuck off
>>79967503
In addition to being a representative democracy, the United States is also a constitutional democracy, in which courts restrain in some measure the democratic will. And the United States is therefore also a constitutional republic. Indeed, the United States might be labeled a constitutional federal representative democracy. But where one word is used, with all the oversimplification that this necessary entails, “democracy” and “republic” both work. Indeed, since direct democracy, again, a government in which all or most laws are made by direct popular vote, would be impractical given the number and complexity of laws that pretty much any state or national government is expected to enact, it’s unsurprising that the qualifier “representative” would often be omitted. Practically speaking, representative democracy is the only democracy that’s around at any state or national level.
You can't say with certain that you're a republic. Now one can certainly argue that some aspects of U.S. government should become less direct, and filtered through more layers of representation. One can argue, for instance, that the 17th Amendment should be repealed, and that U.S. senators should no longer be elected directly by the people, but should return to being elected by state legislators who are elected by the people.
He Supreme Court held in District of Columbia v. Heller that
>The Second Amendment guarantees an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
the Supreme Court is the final interpreter of federal constitutional law.
Not a gypsy.
>>79962297
Guns don't intentionally spread HIV- but OP does
> BAN ASSAULT HOMOS
>>79967503
Also most of your point apply to both.
>>79967251
nice leaf
>>79962297
A well regulated malitia being necessary to the freedoms and protection of a free state, (that is a comma btw) the right of the people (not th malitia) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
If you read any of the writings of the founding fathers on this subject you will understand how very much they intended the American people to have guns.
>>79962297
>>79967563
>"Wasn't one of the founding fathers LGBTQ+? One was asexual he never got married I forget which one tho."
No. We had no lesbians and no trannies. If one of them were gay or bi, or whatever they knew better and didn't act on their deviance.
Also just because he didn't marry doesn't make him Asexual.
>>79968032
>if you read any
liberals aren't really known for that. they read up until something fits their argument and then they disregard the rest. for freedom and progress, you know
>>79968032
I read them all. You can interpret that wrongly. In a democratic state, milita can be defined by the armies of the given state.
>>79968139
Rednecks don't read them at all, most of them don't even know anything about your country, after you prove them wrong they just disappear mumble "MUH DICK". See this>>79967503, claims you're not a bit of a democratic state when in fact, you are. “Democracy” and “republic” aren’t just words that a speaker can arbitrarily define to mean something (e.g., defining democracy as “a form of government in which all laws are made directly by the people”). They are terms that have been given meaning by English speakers more broadly. And both today and in the Framing era, “democracy” has been generally understood to include representative democracy as well as direct democracy.
>>79964018
nope it says that a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state. and it says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
nowhere does it say that people can only have the right to keep and bear arms if it is within the confines of a well regulated militia.
not to mention, even if it was it would only solidify the need for "assault rifles" and MORE because well regulated does not mean well goverened.. it means in "good working order" as in a "well oiled machine" which would really necessitate even stronger weapons. quit applying your feelings to my constitution
>>79968803
>And both today and in the Framing era, “democracy” has been generally understood to include representative democracy as well as direct democracy.
i am still not sure how you feel this strengthens your argument... which is what exactly?
before you attempt to beat a dead horse i believe in constitutional carry as an unalienable right which my own state infringes upon.
>>79962297
It would be harmful if it had space for a magazine
Traditionally, folks who advocate a "government-maintained list" of people who can't do stuff (e.g. buy guns, fly on airplanes, etc)... are really enthusiastic about that until they realize that THEY might wind up on said list, with no recourse or appeal process.
Then suddenly it doesn't seem like such a good idea after all.
Also, if you're not from the USA, you really have no place in this discussion. If you don't like our constitution, don't come here, don't move here, and don't live here.
>>79962297
Liberals love to say this but every current law, supreme court ruling, and historical document from the founding fathers disagrees with them.
>>79962297
>The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun.
only god can do that silly
>>79969508
>Also, if you're not from the USA, you really have no place in this discussion. If you don't like our constitution, don't come here, don't move here, and don't live here.
This is the typical redneck mentality, assuming people want to come there, but they don't. It's just a few tips on how to "not be" the laughing stock of the world".
>>79969661
not sure how "well regulated" is hard to understand.
well. regulated.
>>79968003
That fucking image is seriously the funniest fucking thing I've seen in a long time. Canadians truly must feel total spite at such an image
>>79962297
Fucking gypsey OP, get your nose out of US domestic policies that you have absolutely no say in since you yourself are NOT an American. And no ones gonna take our fucking guns away, nigger.
>>79962297
If you had a basic grasp on English you would understand that it means that because the country in general needs a well-regulated militia to defend the country (and this wasn't written in but generally understood, to overthrow tyranny), the people's right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
The reason doesn't matter, it could be because George Washington like to open beer bottles with a musket, the plain fact of the matter is that the sentence clearly states the people have the right to keep and bear arms and it shall not be infringed, for the reason of blah blah blah.
regardless if you want to nitpick at the reason, which literally changes nothing in relation to the right, "well-regulated" back in those days is in relation to the weapons, meaning that they fucking work. A militia with weapons that work is necessary to the defense of the state/freedom/the people against tyranny.
>>79964210
Ha!Ha! you didn't ignore it, instead you pointed it out, it must have hit close to home eh failed scholar?
You're a bigger idiot than you give yourself credit for, loser.
>>79970698
Dog cum got to your brain lmao
>>79969726
>gypsy calls another country laughing stock of the world
>>79962297
This must be bait.
I'd advise you to read this supreme court decision:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
>>79962297
someone edit that pic to point out the rampant aids epidemic with gay males. that and how much worse it is for black gay males.
>>79967749
see: >>79970935
Also, Washington, Jefferson, and Hamilton - all founding fathers, never had any qualms about citizens owning guns when they were President.
So basically, the entire point about civilian gun ownership being something the Founding Fathers didn't intend is entirely false.
>>79967193
>Be
>>79962472
Holy shit. You owned that nigger so bad it's in violation of the 13th amendment.
>>79962297
>Oh, and the Constitution doesn’t just say a “militia.” It says a “well-regulated” militia.
.. keep going
It says "a well regulated militia, made up by the People."
Which people did they mean? Only a libtard could be confused about it.
Gun rights: 541486
Gun grabbers: -8
>>79962297
>Romanian
>Talking about Merican laws.
plz go
Every American male between the ages of 18-45 is considered to be part of the militia. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. My right to bear arms is necessary to maintain a well regulated militia. A well regulated militia being necessary for a free state.
>>79969726
>redneck
I see that you missed the point --- specifically, that we don't want to get lectures on how to run our country from people who don't live here. Likewise, if someone from the USA came to Romania and tried to lecture you about how to run your country, you should tell them to go take a hike. To put it another way, best leave the Making of America's Greatness to those who are actually American.
Believe me, if Romania actually had superior government, society and laws, we'd be flocking there the way Mexicans are flocking here.
>>79969726
Or to put it another way, since you clearly don't understand our laws, and you don't like the way we adhere to our own laws, then your solution is obvious (wait for it).... don't come here!
Who do you gun grabbers think should regulate this militia then?
It cannot be a part of the government, because it is phrased an a way that heavily implies that the people may need it to fight the government.
Trusting the government with such a militia would make as much sense as trusting the keys to the prison to one of the prisoners.
So I'll ask again, because you guys don't seem very intelligent and probably already forgot, who should be in charge of this well regulated militia?
>>79962297
the constitution doesn't give anything
the PEOPLE give THEMSELVES rights and defend them THEMSELVES with GUNS
>>79962297
The Constitution does not give people anything, it guarantees it and that can not be infringed upon.
>>79962297
>implying Romanians have a Second Amendment
You're right, I have a natural right to own a gun. The second amendment protects that right.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BHIg9l4hh5J/
>>79962297
Who was the militia?
In 1776, the militia was any able bodied male with a rifle.
>>79973892
>who should regulate it?
This. A thousand times, this.
Basically, who is going to determine who's on the "OK to buy guns" list, and who's on the "cannot buy guns" list? What group / association or even government agency do you actually trust to maintain & update such a list?
>>79974567
This has been extended to ALL able bodied citizens above the age of 18.
>>79973892
>He thinks he can overthrow the government
Government can regulate it faggot. Sorry your Red Dawn fantasies won't come true.
>>79973892
This x1000 finally someone who can actually think
>>79974907
SOME THOUGHTS ON MASS SHOOTINGS
If we are to divide our time here: LET US identify three time frames: the early period between 1960-1980; the middle period between 1981-1998; the most recent period between 1999-2016.
I shall now speak of the middle period (1981 - 1998)
The growth of civilian-initiated massacres as public events began to find prominence between 1981-1998, a time of growing elite dominance over everyday life and the retreat of collective expression.
The elites, let by President Regan, established the culture of the "lone wolf", vindicating grievances with his 'righteous rifle.' The conflation of the 2nd amendment of the Constitution with the worship of the long vigilante helped to demonize the 2nd amendment and create the contemporary mass killer.
The political culture of organized resistance was replaced by the pathology of resentment. The political-cultural elites deliberately and systematically discredited the social context of mass popular protest, ridiculing popular discontent and suppressing dissent while enhancing the image of the power of the individual. (MSM covered Occupy Wall Street similarly). The state-enforced notion of "individual over the collective" morphed into a deranged Ayn Rand-ian Atlas with his semi-auto 9mm.
Secondly, during this transitional time period (1981-1998); political culture renewed and enhanced the role of state violence in resolving conflicts and extended the notion of social violence downward into the mass of society.
Under the guardianship and guide of the political and media elites, the 1908's and 1990's did not encourage or permit any effective mass cultural alternative to violence. (dissent will not be tolerated in this democracy).
>>79966724
Where you got this, son?
>>79971467
INFRINGED
>>79974958
>Retard
Ok when civil war breaks out I expect TONS of foreign powers to assist you cowfucking retards in overthrowing the evil US government.
This is so bad it could almost be bait
>>79962297
Fuck off Romania this doesn't concern you
>>79973892
>Who do you think should regulate this militia then?
Congress, as per Article 1 Section 8 of The US Constitution.
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
>>79973892
You demand that all persons have a regulator when in fact man was born free
>>79975435
The Congress shall have Power to*
Fuck me, always fucking leaving important shit out of posts.
>>79962297
And I understand that you're very ignorant on this issue and that's okay not everybody can be an expert. Do something for me 18th century English dictionary then open up the dictionary that pops up for Google books and I want you to do the same thing that I did about 6 months ago and search through that entire dictionary the definitions of each and every single word in the entire US Constitution to Define them and their context. Now go ahead and start off with just a second amendment that will address your post in this issue. Once you've completed this go ahead and look up letter of writ now you'll find there are plenty of letters of Rec that were written and provided to all sorts of citizens of the United States that were not members of any military force or Army they were private citizens and they requested clarification on what types of armaments they were allowed to have as per the Second Amendment now each and every one of those comes back saying that they can own essentially whatever the f*** they want because that is what the second amendment guarantees now this included pepperbox revolver garage type weapons cannons explosives rifles repeating rifles and pistols which did exist back then the list goes on. Many of these were far more lethal than an AR-15 today some of which are more lethal than a full automatic M60 machine gun. The general Spirit hear that I'm trying to convey to you is that your first amendment which you are utilizing to express this concern is protected by the Second Amendment which is then protected by all of the other amendments
>>79967749
>is this really how cucked swedes are
>>79962472
fpbp
>>79962297
Additionally in my search through the 18th century English dictionary that I found and the context of the Second Amendment and each word in it the definition of the Second Amendment in common English in contemporary common English is this
The right of every fighting age male in the US and every female who is a member of the reserve forces is a part of the militia automatically comma as such every citizen of the United States has a right to keep and bear any and all arms that will not be hampered infringed Stripped Away or restricted. Such a right is necessary to maintain the freedoms afforded by the United States Constitution.
>>79975038
Nice copypasta friendo
>>79967850
>You can't say with certain that you're a republic
You yourself stated we are a republic beforehand, just a democratic one.
I simply stated that the democratic aspects are underneath the republican aspects of the system.
>>79968803
>claims you're not a bit of a democratic state
I very evidently stated we are a republic with democratic elements.
>>79974534
>Cuckbrace on non SBR
>KUK industries blade on the other SBR
>feminine penis out of frame
what r u doin
>>79962704
Says who? It says a well regulated militia you cock sucking cuck, it doesn't enumerate the weapons allowed or not. Dipshit
>>79962472
FPBP. The founding fathers allowed people to own cannons and entire arsenals as well.
>>79976083
back then, soldiers with guns where the main fighting force, so you could easily arm your self.
and fight back (if England tried to start a war with you and take it land back)
Today tanks and aircraft's have taken over the role.
I would guess if that law was written to day, it would say something like: ''All men and woman could own tanks and aircraft's'' so they could anytime take back their country.
It's is an outdated law, but i understand why most people are against changing it, it is your second amendment after all
>>79962297
> a gypsy telling me about my country's laws, institutions, and history
>>79977186
It doesn't need to list specific weapons systems anon, 18th century English defines "arms" as any and all weapons. That includes firearms, explosives, artillery, armor, projectiles etc.
There is no need to rewrite or update it.
>>79963951
Kosciuszko?
>>79978382
okey thanks, I didn't think of that
>>79975435
To provide for doesn't equal to provide though, and the "governing such part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States" doesn't seem to give much of them total power over them, but thanks for that.
>>79979171
Np anon. English is a weird fucking language especially when compared to others.
>>79974907
Not so much completely overthrow as much as giving people the blatant means to freedom.
A government needs people to govern, and agents to carry out its orders, and if those people are armed it's a lot more risky for those agents to do anything overstepping their boundaries (such as busting down doors).
The clear reason for the first amendment is to prevent the government from banning political speech or ideas that are harmful to their power. It doesn't change the fact that it gives people the right to say whatever they want for whatever reason. Yes journalists can criticize the government, but people can also make videos of midgets eating each others shit.
Even if the sole purpose of the 2nd amendment is maintaining a militia, that doesn't change the fact that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
>>79962297
you are correct, the bill of rights does not grant rights. what is does, is set limits on what the government can do, preventing the government from attempting to deny it's citizens the rights that they are born with.
>>79976116
Someday I will have as much to contribute, for now I stand on the shoulders of giants
>>79962472
fpbp
cigan BTFO
>>79977186
>>79979171
If you have the money, you can own tanks and fighter jets and canons and shit
>>79962472
>I get a free yogurt every time I humiliate a gungrabber
We only get a punch card. You have to humiliate 10 gun grabbers then you get a yogurt.
>>79962297
"The Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."
DC v Heller, Supreme Court ruling
The Court has held that the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding, and that this Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States.
Caetano v Massachusetts, Supreme Court ruling (this year)
>>79962297
>The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun.
Correct. Everyone already has the right to own a gun. The 2nd Amendment prevents the Government from ever taking that right away.
Get fucked, gypsy.
>>79962297
What most people don't realize is that the second amendment exists so the citizens of this country can defend themselves from a potentially corrupt government.
....like, that's why it's there in the first place.
So in case the government gets power hungry and tries to fuck over its own people, the people can actually stand a chance.
...now you see why they're trying so hard to take away our guns =] =]
>>79986286
Fucking this. Politicians lobbying for gun control should all be arrested for treason
>>79962297
The second amendment doesn't give me the right to own guns, it merely lets the government know that it exists and that they have no authority over it.
>Shall not be infringed
>moet nie oortree word nie
>لا يجوز انتهاكه
>neće biti prekršena
>нe тpябвa дa бъдaт нapyшeни
>no serà infringit
>不得侵犯
>neće biti prekršena
>nesmí být porušena
>må ikke blive krænket
>zal niet worden geschonden.
>ei tohiks rikutud
>ei saa loukata
>ne sera pas transgressé
>dürfen nicht verletzt werden
>δεν πρέπει να παραβιάζεται
>dwe pa gen atteinte
>לא המפר
>उल्लंघन नहीं किया जाएगा
>yuav tsum tsis muaj num to taub
>nem sérti
>tidak boleh dilanggar
>non deve essere violato
>侵害してはなりません。
>Ndipo tena
>vaj wej infringed
>netiks pārkāpti
>tidak boleh dilanggar
>ma għandhom jiġu miksura
>Ma' u infringe
>skal ikke bli krenket
>hingi ar infringe
>نقض باید
>nie może być naruszona
>nu trebuie să fie încălcate
>нe дoлжны быть нapyшeны
>He cмe бити yгpoћeнo
>Ne sme biti ugroћeno
>nesmie byť porušená
>ne smejo biti kršene
>no se infringe
>skall inte får kränkas
>ต้องไม่ถูกละเมิด
>ihlal edilmez değil
>нe пoвиннo пopyшyвaтиcя
>انفرانگاد جائے گا نہیں
>sẽ không được vi phạm
>ni bydd yn torri'r
>>79962297
below. If you can help, send them in too. If you wish to print these, there is a printer friendly size also.
Quotes on the Second Amendment
The Founding Fathers on the Second Amendment
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.
"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."
"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights
Fucking Eurofag telling me about my rights.
>>79962297
>doesn't give you the right
That's true.
It serves to protect that right that is already inherent.
We've been keeping them from chipping away at it because those chipping away at it want to abolish it entirely. And they know they can't do it all at once because the blowback would be the end of them.
>>79962297
Saging, and I know this is bait, but vid related gypsy friend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW_noXjj6w8
>>79964825
you useful idiot.
> " ' " replaces the letter "a"
>replaces
no its added into compound words and letters are dropped. there is no rule for replacement,
dont correct native English speakers
>>79964380
Would you prefer to go to some fucking nigger country?
>>79962704
A militia works like a BYOG situation, so everyone should at least own a gun.
>>79967749
When all the sandnigger immigrants and refugees try to over throw your country and put in place Islamic ruling over you, you will realize that being able to go to your safe and pull out the means to protect your way of life isn't that bad of an idea.
Also
>SWEDEN YES
>>79967745
>>79967129
These two pictures together should just lock these threads. How many times do we have to help the mentally ill leftist read.
>A balanced breakfast being essential to the start of a new day, the right of the people to keep and bear grapefruit shall not be infringed
Who gets to have grapefruit?
A) A balanced breakfast
B) The people
C) I am a gigantic faggot, please rape my face
>>79962472
First post best post, op is anally destroyed.
>>79962472
Fpbp
>>79962297
>The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun
This is the only correct statement in your entire shitpost.
The second amendment recognizes a right that already exist and is derived from our humanity and legally protects it from any form of government infringement.
>>79962297
I actually thought this was going to be a sperg, but then you didn't sperg..
The right to bear arms implies the right to own arms and to use them.
This is now a gunfaggotry threade.
Considering romanian legislation might fuck up any chance of getting a gun designed after 1950 (other than certain guns that might fit under professional shooting or heck, if I pick it up, hunting), what should I shoot for?
Additionally, if any of you have ideas about the market in eastern europe (please no black market), can you tell me where I could get the weapon you suggest?
>>79994065
I've always liked the Mosin carbines, and the Finnish ones are known for great quality
Look at this website if you're interested in them
http://7.62x54r.net/
>>79962297
>The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun.
No, it doesn't.
The Second Amendment PROTECTS our right to own firearms.
That's why they're called Constitutionally PROTECTED Rights, not constitutionally granted rights.
>Can we please stop pretending that the Second Amendment contains an unfettered right for everyone to buy a gun?
No, because there's no pretending about it.
>It doesn’t, and it never has.
It always has, has and always will.
>The Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution doesn’t just say Congress shall not infringe the right to “keep and bear arms.”
But that's the qualifying statement of the second amendment.
>It specifically says that right exists in order to maintain “a well-regulated militia.”
Wrong/Lie.
It specifically says because the a militia is needed to protect the state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed by the state.
>Supreme Court Associate Justice Antonin Scalia admitted those words weren’t in there by accident.
They give the reason as to why the people should be armed.
>Oh, and the Constitution doesn’t just say a “militia.” It says a “well-regulated” militia.
Yet it doesn't say a "well regulated people".
>What did the Founding Fathers mean by that?
That the militia would be well maintained ie: well supplied.
>We don’t have to guess because they told us. In Federalist No. 29 of the Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton explained at great length precisely what a “well-regulated militia” was, why the Founding Fathers thought we needed one, and why they wanted to protect it from being disarmed by the federal government.
And yet that has no bearing on our firearm rights being infringed by you fucking piece of shit gungrabers.
