Why is it that communism is praised every single time by college liberals in the west, but everybody in ex-ussr countries who loved under it say it was complete and utter dogshit?
>>79930913
Lived*
>>79930913
It seems like you just answered your own question and are looking for other people to confirm what you said rather than have a meaningful discussion.
>>79930913
>>79930913
Because college liberals are coddled, idealistic idoits who never have had to wait in line for basic neccesities or been executed for thought crime.
>>79930913
......ed under it say it was complete and utter dogshit?
there you go, since you wanted an echo chamber
>>79930989
This
>>79931143
>>79930989
>>79931190
hes not wrong. if you think he is please explain why instead of complaining that no one else is explaining. communism is shit for anyone who isnt a professional bank robber
Reminder that communism has failed every time and ended up collapsing or becoming state capitalist
Reminder the free market economies work and are some of the most richest in the world (hong kong, singapore and switzerland)
Thank you and good night statishits
Lenin didn't do so badly.
Sides, "college liberals" praise "leftism" which is considered to be pretty much just liberal societal values. Communism is an economic and political system.
but true communism have never been tried.
When will you reactionary idiots learn?
When the revolutions come you better change your mind
Because communism is a cool idea on paper (well , socialism is, communism less so), but it needs perfect society with no corruption to function. Since such a society doesn't and won't exist, it can not work. They just don't understand that last part probably.
>>79931257
Reminder that you can offer evidence on that basis for capitalism too.
Reminder that heavily socialist economies are some of the most richest in the world (Norway, Denmark)
>>79931284
>Lenin didn't do so badly.
>EU flag
cant crash this union soon enough
>>79931407
>sweden
>defending communism
>cuck levels off the charts
>>79931470
Those countries are social democratic you idiot. Not socialist.
They operate within a capitalist framework. 90% of companies in Sweden are privately owned.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Sweden
Do you think capitalist welfare states are socialist? Kek
>>79931487
Lenin improved the situation of Russia and started on a good path.
Unfortunately communism is doomed by definition, because it relies on perfect leadership, which will always eventually fail.
>>79930913
Those college proffs who are brainwashing the youth do so deliberately to undermine the system. Why? I dont know. Bezmenov would say they were planted by KGB.
And yeah commie system is bad in theory and even more so in practice - it's ineffective at best and totalitarian terror at worst. You cant have maximum equality and civil liberties at the same time. It always ends up with plebs killing the rich and the new rich emerging - who use violence to keep the power. Thats human nature to you.
You can have a semibalance of capitalim and socialism at best (what many Europe countires already have).
The only right answer:
Because it is a great and just concept in theory (inb4 it isn't), but 100% doomed to fail in practice due to human nature and it just ends up creating a living hellhole.
It seems like some countries enjoyed it
90% of the KGB budget went towards cultural and psychological warfare
they infiltrated universities instead of military related organizations and art communities instead of political communities and spent decades changing the opinion of the intellectual elite in america and western europe
these methods only have an effect on the next generation, and it takes 20-30 years because the kids that get indoctrinated have to go through school, college and then get a powerful position within government before their brainwashing has any significant influence. a good example of such an individual is hillary clinton. if the soviet union had survived 20 or 30 years longer the entire world would be a singular oppressive 1984 communist galactic empire
this is why all your friends that went to trade school or iraq are all ron paul or trump worshippers and all your hipster cuck friends that studied "art" or "gender studies" are all literally mentally unstable shillary drones
>>79931605
>The Swedish government has announced that it will privatise a number of wholly and partly state owned companies. "The income from these sales will be used to pay off the government debt and reduce the burden of debt for future generations. The Government's ambition is to sell companies to a value of SEK 200 billion during 2007–2010.
Kek nice socialism there pham
>Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy,
>within the framework of a capitalist econony
This is what sweden, denmark, and norgay is.
>>79931605
So what's your point, precisely? Switzerland also has a fuckload of things that aren't compatible with pure capitalism.
I can use semantics too.
>>79930913
because you're oversimplifying, especially with that dogshit meme image
the ideal is that in a magical world where everyone had the best intentions and only made the correct actions, socialism or communism would be nice systems to live under.
the fact of the matter is that in history, all such attempts have either been small scale and died out or were shitty state socialism turned authoritarian shitholes.
college liberal obsession with communism is part of the idealism of youth. eventually, like all young idealists, they get bitter and cynical
>>79931641
>commie system is bad in theory
Another Russia-hating Russian who just does it to appear cool.
Communism is disastrous in practice, but its wonderful in theory.
Stop dreaming about how cool the western world is and trying to be part of it, it isn't and you won't be.
>>79931284
How do you get that fucking flag
>>79931868
That social democracy isn't really socialism necause it works within a capitalist economy.
>>79930989
I suspect he is looking for western 'communists' to come in and justify themselves.
inb4 not real socialism
>>79931914
You cant even distinguish USSR and Russia, and you want to talk about communism or Russian history? what an ignorant baiter.
>>79931914
>wonderful in theory
Yeah, never being able to own private property or choose my own job sound fucking fantastic.
No chance of becoming rich and successful, I just work in a tractor factory until I fucking die. Wonderful.
>>79932021
Congratulations, you read a politics textbook or wikipedia.
It's all heavily subjective. I can post a dozen examples of why norway is socialist, you can post a dozen examples it isn't.
In the end, the one who gets less bored wins.
So if you want to argue, get back to the original point.
>>79931939
you have to sell your soul to satan
>>79932155
Ok.
Communism has failed every time.
>>79931470
And yet lefties say that welfare capitalism isn't socialism.
>>79932155
Also see >>79931855
Nice "socialism" you got there
>>79932109
I can distinguish things perfectly my friend, нe coмнeвaюcь. I also know you people and how you think.
So skip it.
Go organize a maidan and then pray to the EU to get accepted because you think we're so cool and the west is so much better.
>>79932120
You get given a house to own by the state, you can also get inherited property. It's about as much yours as it is in capitalism.
You get to choose your job.
You can become successful, if you're ambitious and want to reach upwards you join the party and climb from there.
So, all false.
>>79932120
I like how he saved us the trouble of giving him a (((jewish))) tattoo.
>>79931868
That you can't hold up the good aspects of the Nordic model in praise of socialism then write of the social decline in Sweden as not socialism.
>>79932155
>It's all heavily subjective.
It really isn't that subjective you're just ignorant of the most basic terminology on the subject.
>but everybody in ex-ussr countries who loved under it say it was complete and utter dogshit?
Yeah. As if. Maybe in eastern Europe. But a lot of russian middle agers and eldery ate that shit up and will defend it even today.
You haven't heard shit if you never had an argument with a person who thinks that Stalin was great because he made soviet union "stronger" by working people to death.
Communism is gay lol
>>79932224
Did not dispute that at all.
Although I will say that Lenin went on the right path before he got a stroke.
>>79932239
Don't give a fuck what cucks say.
>>79932368
>if you're ambitious and want to reach upwards you join the party and climb from there.
kek
>>79932428
>Don't give a fuck what cucks say.
kek
>>79931459
>>79931641
>>79931815
Well said.
>>79931868
You use lot of words to say nothing
>>79932368
>defending communism
Who could be this retarded?
>EUSSR flag
Thank Fuck for the UK.
>>79932385
When did I do that?
>>79932387
I thought this wasn't a class in politics, I'm sorry. I should have gotten stuck in theory and ignored reality.
>>79932457
What's the issue with that? How is joining the party and climbing up any different from joining a corporation and climbing up? For that matter, how is building your own career as a party member different than building it up as a business owner?
>>79932495
But I didn't defend communism. I said it's fine in theory, disastrous in practice.
Learn to read please.
>>79932495
>>79932397
>You haven't heard shit if you never had an argument with a person who thinks that Stalin was great because he made soviet union "stronger" by working people to death.
Jesus.
>lenin
What a dumb pic. Anyone who knows anything knows lenin did all the hard work then stalin killed him and took over before lenin could do anything. Not even arguing for commemeism, this is just history
>>79932368
Yet you spew bullshit and baits in every post.
>maidan
There you go, another cheap bait hohlosrach that has zero relevance to discussion, you are not very good at this.
>>79932368
>You get given a house to own by the state, you can also get inherited property. It's about as much yours as it is in capitalism.
So no competition to build the best home for me? It's no wonder those commie blocks turned out so fantastic eh? VA healthcare and the DMV are fucking awesome government services, I cannot wait to also be given a great house.
>You get to choose your job.
Really nigga? When the govt owns all the means of production, that also means they own labor, which means they own YOU. Which means they have 3 factory available comrade you are given choice of your choosing see how wonderful being is communist society? Choice of 3 career!
>You can become successful, if you're ambitious and want to reach upwards you join the party and climb from there.
LMAO
>So, all false.
History says otherwise you colossal faggot.
>>79932397
I've had arguments with those people. They're no more stupid than the opposites, who think communism is still a threat and you should focus all your efforts on fighting it.
The fact of the matter is, Maidan people are no more or less stupid than the middle agers or elderly who defend Stalin.
Both are utterly fucking retarded.
>>79932518
The reality is that Norway is not socialist and neither are other Scandinavian countries.
>>79932665
>So no competition to build the best home for me?
If you want to improve your home, go ahead.
> It's no wonder those commie blocks turned out so fantastic eh?
I am arguing about the theory, I said it turned out bad in practice, learn to read please.
>Really nigga? When the govt owns all the means of production, that also means they own labor, which means they own YOU. Which means they have 3 factory available comrade you are given choice of your choosing see how wonderful being is communist society? Choice of 3 career!
I am arguing about the theory, I said it turned out bad in practice, learn to read please.
>History says otherwise you colossal faggot.
I am arguing about the theory, I said it turned out bad in practice, learn to read please.
>>79932587
>How is joining the party and climbing up any different from joining a corporation and climbing up?
There's more than one corporation. You fall out with the guy directly above you, and things are FUBAR then you've always got another shot with another company. Another party, not so much.
>>79932587
>I said it's fine in theory
Defending communism.
It's terrible in theory. If something is consistently terrible in practice, then it is also terrible in theory.
>>79931284
Jon Worth pls go
>>79932665
>>79932765
Also about the career choice -
In theory and in some socialist states you were free to choose what to study, so long as you managed to pass the exams (which were obviously harder the fewer positions there were) and were willing to go for it.
You then received a position working that, no matter what.
Which means that you had a bigger freedom of career than in capitalism, in which you can choose what to study and what career to follow, but you're shit out of luck if you chose something that has no jobs available.
It obviously failed spectacularly, because the economy got fucked and couldn't sustain a diverse array of people so a lot of them had to be redirected to factories and shit, but the idea was there and there was even some examples of it being put to practice.
>>79932818
>You fall out with the guy directly above you, and things are FUBAR then you've always got another shot with another company. Another party, not so much.
Move to another wing of the party or another town.
>>79932829
>If something is consistently terrible in practice, then it is also terrible in theory.
Right, so space flight is terrible in theory?
>>79932518
>When did I do that?
Maybe not yourself. Maybe not this thread. But you and I know fine well this is the common retort from leftists these days.
>>79932829
it means the theory is wrong and at some point they have to stop trying to inflict it on people
>>79932974
>Maybe not yourself. Maybe not this thread. But you and I know fine well this is the common retort from leftists these days.
So you're bashing me on the basis of what some other people say in other threads?
>>79931616
TY Angela
Pls post your beautiful Kraut snatch for the boys
>>79932959
'The Party' though depends on a large degree of centralisation. How the hell do you plan your economy otherwise? You know fine well that you'd be blackballed if you spoke against the party and that mark would never come off.
>>79932765
>I have no argument as to why Communism is shit, the shitpost
>I'm too fucking retarded to realize he's poking holes in my theory with practical effects to my commie pipedream
I can say we should form a society where everyone grows pot and ingests it daily and we get rid of money n shiet
sounds great in theory but it'll never fucking work, just like Communism. So stop shilling for it you blithering chuff
>>79931459
>Because communism is a cool idea on paper
It is not even good on paper as build over false foundation of labor theory of value.
>>79932959
What the fuck are you on about now? Space flight has worked much, much better than communism.
Jesus fuck I am done with this idiot.
>>79932665
>b-but the means are seized by the workers! We a-are all da bosses!
>>79933108
And you wouldn't be blackballed if you spoke against your corporation and fucked it?
Sure, you might get a post in a bitter rival.
So if you were heavily against russian communism you might get a post in romania, to build links with the US so Ceaucescu can get more dollars.
>>79933110
Except communism has a lot of the aspects thought out and it has shown that with solid leadership it is capable of functioning.
The only hole in its theory is that it requires PERFECT leadership ALL the time and that is impossible.
>be child in communism land
>want to be doctor when grow up
>work hard for 5 more years than most anyone else
>make the same amount of money as bin man
who the fuck would ever want a difficult job in commietopia. Khrist
>>79933023
Just the typical leftist retort. Had this been another thread, I'd have no way of knowing if you were you. But generally it goes something like this
/pol/: If socialism is so great then why is Sweden heading towards third world country ststus
left/pol/:
>Welfare capitalism
>Not capitalsim
pick one
You can't have it both ways. Tony Blair tried and see what's going to happen to that cunt.
>>79933186
Space flight is very expensive, hard and dangerous. It has not yet achieved it's goal of allowing us to expand past earth.
Therefore your idea that a theory that's been bad in practice is bad in theory is wrong.
First example that came to mind.
>>79933206
>Y-you can improve your own house!
>lol idk where you'll get the time, disposable income, skills, labor or material though lmfao dude weed communism man SO GOOD IN THEORY
>>79930913
Because utopistic communism, yesh thats the name, is a complete different thing than what was in the ussr. That was basically fascism with a bit of red sprinkled on.
Also college liberals love idealisms and they're lefties, so...
>>79933366
>incapable of an argument
>resort to impersonating me with silly words and not even responding to my post
Nice one, sure showed me
>>79933358
>It has not yet achieved it's goal of allowing us to expand past earth.
Nigger we landed on the moon in 1969.
No, sorry, we don't have a fucking star colony network yet. We haven't had a reason to.
end your life man.
>>79933269
Well, I kind of didn't even list Sweden...
>>79933149
The basic premise of socialism is "everyone works as much as they can and get payed proportionally to the work they do". Basically people are no longer underpayed for some jobs (teachers is a good example) and no longer overpayed for others (bank ceo's and the like). Everything else was added later.
>>79933358
>the only goal of spaceflight is to allow humans to expand past earth
How fucking retarded do you get. Do the fumes from all the refugees mess with your mind or something.
>>79933487
So when Henry Ford founded his first five companies that failed, surely that showed that his idea of making a company was wrong?
>>79933501
Fine, want me to use a less abstract example of why what he said is fucking stupid?
![98003894b248b2f9e715c9d9c9d3a507[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6ILXNSF.jpg "98003894b248b2f9e715c9d9c9d3a507[1].jpg")
>>79932397
On a related note, this statue was installed about a year ago in Lipetsk. Even as a part of the general 70-th anniversary hysteria this shit was surreal to me.
>>79933434
Already responded to you asspained faggot.
Besides, you have fuck all to say about how I pointed out how fucking stupid you sound when you say I can just improve my own home in a communist society. As if a Home Depot is going to exist and I will have any disposable income or knowledge of how to DO ANYTHING TO A HOUSE.
Fucking idiot trying to sound like the intellectual here
>ugh dude I just cant even with you you just dont understand how good it is in theory Im going to act incredulous at how foolish you are. You'll never become a party leader like *I* would.
>>79933576
Communism is a terrible idea in theory unless you earn minimum wage and are too stupid to ever learn a practical skill. It would just breed resentment and hate.
>>79933488
...
my bad. BUt I stand by my point, you can't claim all the successes of a state as the successes of socialism then write off all the failures of the same state as not socialism.
But anyway, reading back over your posts I see you're not making the case for IRL communism. I think there are flaws more than just imperfect leaders but essentially this is the key to it. Communism is entirely utopic.
>>79933545
The only difference is the death toll
>>79931284
PISS OFF JUNCKER!
>>79933640
*70-th anniversary of the WW2 victory, for our American friends
>>79933576
You're the one coming up with stupid fucking examples to defend your claim.
I don't like Marx but capitalism will start to fall apart once all jobs are automated by robots and some kind of robo socialism becomes inevitable.
>>79933806
We wouldn't need communism either in a singularity.
>>79930913
I guess thats what happens when you raise multiple generations of complete idiots from a garbage education system.
>>79933806
>implying a robot uprising will be for the good of anyone
>It'll be like the 1% of now but without the 99% being able to do anything at all
>>79933545
>investment in start-up company is comparable to shambling wreck of a government system that affected and killed millions.
I understand you were speaking about the principle of the matter, but it's still a stupid fucking argument.
>You're 6 years old learning how to ice skate, you fall 5 times in 2 minutes. But eventually you learn! Communism is seriously just like that.
>>79933737
Heeey we reached a point where it becomes an argument
Well, I'd say it has a few advantages to capitalism, in theory. Capitalism focuses on the market and trade, which puts things like culture, sports and the advancement of humanity to the side. Communism as an idea removes the market as a driving force of society, so it opens up a LOT more room for things like music, art, sports and all the other values of the human spirit.
I think that's kinda neat.
>>79933755
That doesn't disprove the fact that if a theory is bad in practice it isn't necessarily bad in theory.
>>79933869
If we reach a point where robots do everything for free from start to finish and this process is collectively owned it's basically communism by definition.
>>79933969
>I understand you were speaking about the principle of the matter, but it's still a stupid fucking argument.
I'm only defending the theory.
You are, yet again, saying that it may be so in theory but not in practice.
Which is what I also said.
>>79933986
You're right, but it does disprove your analogy having any significance to your argument. You're the one who came up with the claim, so burden of proof is on you famalam
>>79933986
The whole point is that the market drives people to innovate new culture and advance humanity so that they can profit from it. Communism is just: everyone gets the same thing so your only motivation for innovation is getting a pat on the back.
>>79934122
>You're the one who came up with the claim
Erm, no, the dude said "theory that is bad in practice is bad in theory".
>>79934049
Why defend a theory that is shit in practice?
>>79934170
>the market drives people to innovate new culture and advance humanity so that they can profit from it
Does it?
Really?
I agree that it might in theory and that's what's relevant in this argument, but you're also missing a very critical point - there is nothing to actually point you towards culture and the advancement of humanity. It is only an expected and hoped for side-effect.
>Communism is just: everyone gets the same thing so your only motivation for innovation is getting a pat on the back.
That is entirely untrue. It's easy to think so, considering you live in a world where your motivation is largely financial. I mean, what else motivation could there be?
But communism is supposed to free you of that motivation, so you are left to pursue other things - leaving your name in history, achieving something of note, excelling in your field, building a good family, helping your country.
>>79932397
Capitalism can be pretty abusive too.
And they always say: look, we are better than gommunism thus we are good.
>>79934231
I don't understand the question.
Why post on /pol/?
Cause we got time to kill and want to talk about topics we know about.
>>79933640
>>79932397
Furthermore, people that argue that there were some great things about the 60-s and 70-s might have a point. Culturally Russia has really suffered from the fall of the Union. But supporting Stalinism is reserved for the bat shit crazy, no doubt about that.
>>79934210
Holy fuck, have you never heard of Inductive/Socratic reasoning?
It's this simple:
To work, Communism depends on a perfect society
Society, being human, is never perfect
Therefore, Communism can never work.
>>79934170
But see, in a liberal society the only thing that is needed is a pat on the back. Most of these college kids don't care about money for innovation, they just want recognition. In other words, the youngest generation to experience the birth of communism in a society (if they support said society) would most likely benefit/agree with the government the most about the decision
>>79934210
And you claimed that the theory was good in theory, but bad in practice. I know what you're saying though, and I appreciate you playing "devil's advocate" for the sake of the argument, brings quality to a place with little of it
>>79934001
No, because if everyone has everything, there is no wealth sharing. It's something completely different.
>>79930913
But anon, that wasn't """"""real communism""""""
>>79934476
>Communism depends on a perfect society
It depends only on perfect leadership.
Perfect leadership happens.
It just doesn't last.
>>79934341
>there is nothing to actually point you towards culture and the advancement of humanity. It is only an expected and hoped for side-effect.
that's correct. And yet, it works. Because it works, and because it works in theory, the theory is good
all those other motivations you mentioned are still motivations in capitalist societies, and yet they have the promise of material gains as well. It can only be more rewarding to succeed in a capitalist society.
>>79934576
So then by that logic, communism by extension does not last
>>79934415
And I don't understand your belief of it's a good theory. Theories that are bad in practice get dropped or revised because shitty theory otherwise it would have worked. Why do you defend shit and think it good?
>>79934580
>And yet, it works
Does it though, anon?
Isn't half the shit we do things that have nothing to do with the advancement of culture and humanity? How does fast food do that? How does mass entertainment?
And yes, the other motivations are also part of a capitalist society, but they are heavily dwarfed by the financial motivation.
It's the other way in communism - working a good job and doing it well gives you financial security. Also joining the party can lead to riches and an awesome life.
It's just not as strong.
>>79934490
then when the kiddywinks get thrown into the real world they'll realise that a pat on the back is nice and all, but it doesn't put bread on the table.
>>79933256
wait, we have it literally here
> work very hard in academia
> get fired or glass ceilled because fuck you
> earn like a waiter or cashier
> kick a ball
> show you boobs on tv and have a romp
> spew bullshit in magazines
> earn gazzilions
>>79934673
He's playing the role of the devil's advocate to provoke thought, meaning he may or may not actually believe in what he is defending. It's all for the sake of the discussion
>>79934735
But in their preferred society, it would put bread on the table, making them even more inclined to pursue it
>>79934673
Because it's not a bad theory and we need to recognize that, senpai. It's stupid to have the failures of communism serve as motivation for unchecked capitalism. It's stupid to discredit some solid ideas like a perfect link between education and the labour market. It's stupid to not consider the value of focusing on culture, sports and other such things.
Basically, it's stupid to not look at communism objectively and accept that it's impractical and largely impossible in practice, but holds its own value, much like capitalism has sort of worked in practice, but has lots of flaws.
>>79934627
Pretty much.
>>79934839
>meaning he may or may not actually believe in what he is defending
I don't believe in communism, but I think it has values and should be looked at objectively, rather emotionally as it is.
Anyway, gotta go for lunch.
Was fun getting insulted by you lads.
>>79934911
You take care, and keep up the good work.
>>79934780
that's true to a degree. But that's also true with democracy. It's a horrible system. I'm pretty sure every faggot on /pol/ knows what Mr. Churchill said about that. We do it because it's the best we can do, not because it's perfect.
>>79934468
What's wrong with supporting a man who turned dead empire into world superpower?
>>79934839
You are giving him too much credit
>>79934853
Again lot of words to say nothing. Bunch of empty assumptions.
>>79934468
stalin was as good as communism gets
>>79934476
and liberalism depends on a rational society
society, being human, is seldom rationa
therefore....
wait maybe subhumans are not rational and you are?
>>79935145
He stated his intentions already, which was to achieve an objective look at the theory rather than an emotional one. He already said he does not believe in communism.
>>79930913
Because of the same reasons worked for Thomas Morus on his Uthopy: it's the vision of the paradise on earth, where central planification is exempt of failure and all the people are in a moral plane above the humans.
That ivory castle can only exist in the paper; on the mind, not in the mortal realm.
>>79933358
so to complete the comparison, communism is like forcing everyone in a nation into unreliable/expensive/dangerous spacecraft and shooting them into space
full communism now
>>79935146
come visit the pyramids, you'll love 'em
>>79935397
only finishing what lenin started senpai
>>79935028
Bruh, I honestly believe that the course of history is not decided by the will of individuals but by much more complex processes within the population. The Soviet people, inspired by the revolution, worked their asses off and put the country back on the map. This would have happened with Stalin in charge or without him.
t. Lev Tolstoi
>>79931470
>Welfare state = socialism
Hello i am EU and i have no fucking clue what i am talking about but i'm gonna talk about it anyway. Because i'm a complete imbecile and that's what imbeciles do.
>>79930913
Jews
>commucuck comes into thread to defend his failed nanny state
>gets absolutely, unequivocally BTFO
Every single time. When will these faggots learn.
>>79935340
Objectively it is a shit theory. No emotions needed to see that.
>>79930913
It's not.
First of all, millions of former Soviets and Yugoslavs are nostalgic for the old days.
Second of all, most leftist students aren't Soviet-tier communists/socialists.
Thirdly, your image is an irrelevant ebin meme that has little to no semblance to a coherent argument, and you know it.
>>79935774
If they can't learn from a mountain of corpses that what caused the mountian doesn't work, they'll never learn this.
>>79930989
Can someone make this into a banner?
>>79931284
you actually made me get off my phone and turn on my computer just to get your flag
>>79935837
And I agree with you, but you wouldn't have the opportunity to prove it was a shit theory without him arguing like it was a good one.
>>79931687
Shhh...
>>79932368
Go back to Chyna
>>79931815
Nice meme.
>>79936010
It has been proven already to be a shit theory how many times in history so far? Having no opportunity to prove it again on /pol/ using words will be no great loss I think.
Please, someone make a meme of Ramsey and Sansa talking for the last time about ''You kill me, but there is still part of me in you now'' with USSR and US flags over their faces.
>>79932224
Define this. Is it different from the trajectory of dozens of other countries and movements? Yugoslavia, for example, was unstable and increasingly repressive after 1980 or so, but from 1948 to 1980 it was (generally) a good place to be, unless you were a nationalist rebel.
>>79933149
It's hard to say but ruski is right.
>>79933108
Many far left movements oppose centralization. Look at Rojava or Tito's Yugoslavia.
>>79936249
You'd be losing the discussion, which is valuable in a society that genuinely believes that it's a good idea. You're kinda going all tumblr here,
>in my mind, communism has been disproven therefore no one need to speak about it
>in my mind, gender dysphoria has been disproven, therefore no one needs to speak about it
>>79933206
hahahaha le epic meme le XDDDD so le funny wew lad le XDDD great 10/8 argument le master trole ruseman fugging ebin XDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!111!1!1!1!1!111!!!!!!111!!!!!11!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>79933366
Nice strawman
>>79933969
>corporations dindu nuffin wrong
Tell that to Haitians whose economy was destroyed by replacing hardy native pigs and rice with Iowan pigs and rice.
>>79936964
>Haiti
Irrelevant. No system can work in a majority black country.
>>79931470
>Let me tell you about how your country is socialist
Leftist American with a proxy confirmed. Socialism means a central-planned economy. Capitalism means market economy. None of the Nordic countries have a central-planned economy, therefore none of them are socialist.
We have the same exact government programs that every other Western country, including America, has. The reason why it works better here is because of cultural and ethnic homogeneity.
>>79934170
>market always drives innovation
All too often it leads to bland consumerism while neglecting serious art and work. Many (possibly most) people innovate because they feel an innate attachment to their field, not because it'll theoretically get them some money. Look at how many inventors and artists died in modest or destitute circumstances.
>>79934397
This. There's a huge fucking double standard. The people who bitch about how a tax increase makes you literally Stalin don't have an iota of sympathy for the millions of innocents killed by anti-communist despots, or the dozens of millions of peasants and workers driven into destitution by capitalism or globalism.
>>79936600
Very good point, you are right about that
>>79930913
Because people do not realize what "true" equality really means.
Equality can only be estabilshed by violently removing everyone else
>>79937142
>le nigger meme
>implying anything makes global economics irrelevant
>>79937757
You haven't posted an argument. There have been extreme communist, extreme capitalist, and everything in between type nations in Sub-Saharan Africa, and every single one is a destitute hole with the exception of South Africa and former South Rhodesia, both of which are now destitute holes after their white ruling class was expunged.
>>79930913
As a Cambodian, I have had the privilege of learning about how the entire communist bubble expanded and collapsed in just 4 years in Cambodia.
In 4 years of rule, they:
- Killed all fascists, racists, nationalists, etc. and policed the survivors with Antifa
- Implemented equality by dragging everyone down to the level of farmer
- Gave everyone free houses (stick and straw huts shared with 20 people) and food (hot water with a teaspoon of rice)
- Killed all concern trolls in The Party who doubted the communist utopia
- Destroyed the family structure because traditional family morals are backwards
- Removed all money and taxes, but you have to do hard labor for 14 hours a day
Every time I see some pseudo-commie shit happen today, I can relate it to the Khmer Rouge within seconds.
>>79931284
RARE
>>79938065
fkn saved.
>>79938065
>Every time I see some pseudo-commie shit happen today, I can relate it to the Khmer Rouge within seconds.
That is totally wrong though, anon.
What if I said I have seen homeless people on the streets of my town, so whenever I see them I can relate capitalism with them within seconds?
>>79937243
>Leftist American with a proxy confirmed
Unworthy person to reply to confirmed.
>>79935837
Is it senpai?
Explain why the theory of communism is objectively bad, please.
>>79931470
How did you even get that flag?
>>79938360
>anecdotal evidence
>worth as proof of your argument
Why don't you instead try and reason with good arguments?
Only that way you would ensure that people don't get the idea of trying communism again.
>>79938426
I'm Juncker, clearly :^)
>>79938426
if a non-australian shitposts hard enough. they evolve into an EU flag.
>>79938424
Fuck off (((EU)))
>>79938593
Okay, boss.
Just don't dock my pay, I promise I'll "integrate" more "refugees" for you.
>>79938745
Gexit NOW!
>>79938935
B-but how can you exit your own country
I don't understand
>>79939164
Easy.
We divide Germany in East and West Germany again.
West Germany are the cucks of Germany so they get all their beloved "Fachkräfte".
we wuz soviets'n'shiet
>>79939275
Its hilarious that all the communist hero's are white men
>>79939387
Communism had no heroes, but yes, it's hilarious how black people and gays defend a system where they were ostracized/lined up against a wall and shot
>>79939275
Communists do not stand with Blacks or LBGTBBQ. In fact those people will be the first send to Gulags because they are different and therefore cannot be "equalized".
>>79939275
>>79939484
>>79939512
Pretty much this.
Gypsies in socialist countries were told to work or fuck off. If you did shit you were beat up, if you did it again you had something broken, if you did it a third time you were either shot or sent to prison.
>>79938509
Are you saying anything he said was false? How about you point out one socialism didn't soon fall to hard authoritarianism and general fuckery.
Flipside. You explain what your communism will look like, how we get there and why I should support it. I'll wait.
>>79939387
Lenin and Marx were both Jews, not white.
>>79939484
At the risk of sounding like a commie, the "communism" on campus isn't real communism.
Then again, I'd rather face pussified faggots than patriotic vodkaniggers
>>79939607
>soon
What is soon?
>why I should support it
It's a horrible thing in practice and never works, at least not for long.
The fuck would I advise you to support something I think doesn't work?
>79939574
My mother lived in Romania in communist times so I can confirm
(not immigrant, just on vacation)
>>79931470
The only reason we are rich is because of ridiculous taxation of people(upwards of 40-60%) which is to pay off the welfare state. This way poor people save money but the businesses and rich people get offshore accounts or flee the country all together. Socialism is dead here and nobody takes it serious because we experienced it. Breadlines, strikes, hungry population and slow economy. Now though, Norway is probably the best coubtry in the world with based population and so on.
>t. Snowmonkey pillaging this horrible shithole
>>79939993
Are you saying you have socialism but its dead?
I genuinely didn't get your point.
>>79939688
Soon? Lets say the course of a decade.
>The fuck would I advise you to support something I think doesn't work?
You wouldn't. I just hoped you'd give it a shot as I've asked this question many a place and never once got even a semi-decent answer.
![quote-the-goal-of-socialism-is-communism-vladimir-lenin-17-25-00[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WR5kJoa.jpg "quote-the-goal-of-socialism-is-communism-vladimir-lenin-17-25-00[1].jpg")
>>79931284
Ok.
>>79932368
>Work your way up to party leader position
Confirmed euroNEET dreaming of becoming powerful communist leader so that Stacy from school will finally like you maybe.
>>79940233
And you're not going to, because communism has failed in every one of its instances so far and there is no reason to believe it will actually ever work.
However, it has its own objective advantages and as a theory it has a lot of merit. Just the same as capitalism has lots of objective disadvantages and such.
I'll argue to death its not a black or white picture, but I will also probably try to death to stop communism from ever happening again,
>>79940065
The only socialist stuff left here is the tax- and hospital system. If we continue with the nanny state shit we will go under in a few generations.
Yes. Socialism kinda worked its way into people's minds and culture. And that is the only place it really works, in people's minds.
>>79940353
>Confirmed euroNEET dreaming of becoming powerful communist leader so that Stacy from school will finally like you maybe.
Confirmed not worth taking the time to write proper replies.
this eurofag is really making me think
>>79940737
That's good for you family, certainly better than swallowing all the shit you're served that presents the world in a black or white light.
>>79940406
Then what the hell is the modern, non-SJW left clinging to? They don't seem retarded (at least to the extent they're well read). What is their major malfunction?
>>79940979
You must understand that this developed over decades. Its old Soviet propaganda showing its effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4
>>79940979
I dunno senpai, you gotta point me to the people you're talking about.
But from my colleagues, I can tell you that most of them are well read and educated, but incapable of critical, independent thought. Here it's literally looked down upon if you don't follow the general line. Doesn't matter your party or country.
Most of them are people from upper middle class families and they live horribly boring, empty lives so they invent constructs to fill their lives. It's mostly the result of comfort.
They cling to communism because its interesting, it gives them a purpose and it represents a world in which their boring, empty existence is given meaning.
>>79930913
>innocents
These people were fucking up the country they live in big time.
>>79941178
>MUH CONSPIRACY
You should know, Hans Pasha.
>>79941224
No, communism is bad, it's the root of all evil and you should dedicate your life to fighting for it, vote for us because we are anti-communist and prepare to pay for the next bank, because its democratic and anti-communist.
Else you're filthy red trash and you probably smell.
>>79941240
>Soviet propaganda
>conspiracy
r u stupid?
>>79941189
>>>/leftypol/
>They cling to communism because its interesting, it gives them a purpose and it represents a world in which their boring, empty existence is given meaning.
I've always suspected the the obsessing over 'theory' is some kind of intellectual masturbation.
>>79941449
I dunno, like I said, most of my colleagues are exactly like that.
The thing is, the ones who classify themselves as right-wing and are educated enough to know what it means literally advocate for communism.
It's because they think that's how they can influence the world and suit it to their own wishes.
>>79941311
>Vote for us because we are anti-communist and prepare to pay for the next bank, because its democratic and anti-communist.
>44 shills by this cuck
You're trying too hard.
>>79941731
I don't get it
Who am I shilling for?
>>79941535
>The thing is, the ones who classify themselves as right-wing and are educated enough to know what it means literally advocate for communism.
How'd you mean? Right wingers in the EU are the open commies where self described lefties are what, SocDem? my head hurts.
>>79941819
Right wingers are open commie, SocDem are more right-wing than them usually and also pretty much open commie, eurosceptics are also commie.
It's just a general line that people here pretty much think like that.
I mean, that's what you get from a supranational structure with no transparency or even observation from its people.
Honestly, the least commie are the official commies (GUE). Cause instead of wanting and pushing for communism, while being right, they push for socialism and put some limits while doing so.
>>79941972
Thank fuck we #Brexit now...
I've noticed for a while now that both left and right support globalisation and centraliation. I've always assumed though that they want such systems in place so that they can take control the use super-national institutions to their own ends. what you're saying is really confusing me.
Tell me more about the right wing commies of teh EU. Is there anyone in teh EU that isn't commie? And when you call them commie, are the full true commie? (abolish state, money and class, workers ownership of memes of production)
>>79942570
>I've always assumed though that they want such systems in place so that they can take control the use super-national institutions to their own ends
You hit the nail on the head perfectly anon.
When they come here they are faced with practically no supervision or control and actual institutional means. So they are free to figure out ways to force further influence for themselves.
>Is there anyone in teh EU that isn't commie?
There are a LOT of decent people here. They're just buried underneath the rubbish. They also don't have a majority or enough power.
The problem is with the majority, the powerful.
> And when you call them commie, are the full true commie?
No, not quite. See, the common eurocrat does want to abolish the state. He does want to regulate EVERYTHING. He wants to limit your freedom. He wants the institutions to reign supreme.
He doesn't actually want to spread the wealth or anything though.
Plus I was mostly talking about the mentality as well, not the means they work to. Most eurocrats don't really have the power to change anything anyway.
>>79930913
Because the Commies have taken over entertainment and universities, and they thoroughly ostracize anyone who doesn't share their cultist believes.
It's the old Soviet plan to undermine the capitalist world with the help of useful idiots.
It's actually ironic that the Empire that created this plan didn't survive long enough to see it coming to fruition.
>>79943689
>You hit the nail on the head perfectly anon.
And this is why I near blindly oppose globalisation and centraliason. Fuck I voted yes on Scottish indy and support Brexit for this very reasoning. Figure we keep them closer to home, they better check themselves in fear of a baying mob.
>No, not quite. See, the common eurocrat does want to abolish the state. He does want to regulate EVERYTHING. He wants to limit your freedom. He wants the institutions to reign supreme.
>He doesn't actually want to spread the wealth or anything though.
I still don't really get this mentality. Are they ideologues or is it just power for power's sake?
>>79932065
>he does this on /pol/
>>79944225
I try other /pol/ but they are literally incapable of giving a straight answer.
>>79944147
>I near blindly oppose globalisation and centraliason
You're as bad as the commies then, anon. Their political views aren't the sickness, they're a symptom. They're a symptom of a blind electorate and a political class that's separated from it. Blind opposition to the sickness is as bad as blind support.
>Are they ideologues or is it just power for power's sake?
Both, in a way. This place here, it indoctrinates you. We jokingly call it a bubble, but it actually is. When you're surrounded by these people 24/7 and you have lost contact with your nation, with the real people, you tend to think that way too. It takes a really open-minded, intelligent and objective person to retain their view on the world.
That, or a largely shut-in autist who doesn't really talk much with people and does his damn job by his own principles, like myself.
In that sense, it is also just power for power's sake. You have this ideology, it makes it easy to push to regulate somewhere, where there isn't regulation.
Not sure if I should bother discussing or just posting pasta.
>>79944837
Because really communism has proven to be much worse than fascism, so at the very least it should be treated as such.
>>79944525
I've seen 30 years of globalisation and see no real benefits to it for most people. And it is always the same people pushing for it with the same tired lines about GDP. I dgaf about GDP. Some things are more important. As I said above I've yet to see a single solid case in favour of centraliation or globalisation (as in closer global integration. Trade isn't inherently had)
>>79945028
>>79945081
Globalization is actively bad though, long story short it transfers money from the middle class to the poor and to the very rich, increasing inequality. And that's from a purely economic perspective, there are other effects both good and bad.
Communism always has brutality sprinkled in. And the new version is no different. Look at all the Bernie supporters, using physical violence to suppress political oponents (Trump). They also want to outlaw hate speech, which is defined as anything they disagree with. They think anybody who believes different then them should be imprisoned.
Nothing new here. The left always gets violent when they get their way. Every fucking time.
>>79945081
>>79945299
Your train of thought is the same train of thought that led to globalization.
Replace the words with nationalism and isolation and some other words.
>>79933488
where the fuck are you posting from?
>>79944837
Russians, as most slavs, tend to have this class of people who hate their own nation and people and tend to try to fit in heavily.
You will notice it by rabid, illogical hatred of anything to do with their country. They also tend to immigrate and then marry as quick as possible to escape their name.
I wouldn't really trust a Russians opinion on communism much more than I'd trust a jew. God knows, they both try to insert emotion and shill as hard as possible for their own cause.
>>79945557
There's one type of nationalism that needn't be like that...
And I don't follow?
>Replace the words with nationalism and isolation and some other words.
>>79946052
>>79945081
>I've seen 30 years of nationalism and see no real benefits to it for most people. And it is always the same people pushing for it with the same tired lines about national pride. I dgaf about national pride. Some things are more important. As I said above I've yet to see a single solid case in favour of isolation or nationalism (as in closer national ties. Patriotism isn't inherently bad)
>>79945299
>Nationalism is actively bad though, long story short it transfers power from the middle class to the poor and to the very rich, increasing inequality. And that's from a purely political perspective, there are other effects both good and bad.
>>79930913
>everybody in ex-ussr countries who lived under it say it was complete and utter dogshit?
Funny how the older someone is here, the more likely are they to vote Communist. At least that was the way until Putin hijacked that electorate too.
>>79947700
La, my uncle despises communism because once, when he was crossing the border, they caught him with some Beatles records and the border guard broke them in half.
He is a shit alcoholic who beat the crap out of his wife until she left him and he basically steals money from my dad to survive.
Under communism he was a respected engineer and had a wonderful home and promising career.
He's always voted on the basis of which party is the most anti-communist and literally nothing else. He likes the man who scrapped the factory he used to work in, because he was "a democrat".
Why people still trust the word of ex-ussr country residents, I will never understand.
>>79931284
>lenin didn't do so badly
>>79948027
He objectively improved the situation of Russia and did a number of good things until he got a stroke.
You cannot call his rule "bad". It was a rule. With good and bad things.
>>79947892
Funny how everyone here seems to have an alcoholic uncle, I have one too.
>>79948121
Must be cause democracy is so undeniably great and communism was the only root of all our problems so now with everything solved they have nothing better to do than drink.
>>79948118
>He objectively improved the situation of Russia
Umm.
As a result of his actions Russia managed to lose a war while being on a winning side, and then there was Civil War with both Red and White terror, widespread famine, epidemics, etc, etc. It can be argued that in the long run communists did lots of valuable things for the country, but calling Lenin's rule an improvement is like calling the bombing of Hiroshima an improvement because it was rebuilt later.
>>79948446
And how was Russia pre-Lenin?
>>79931470
For the quintillionth time those countries are not socialist holy shit stop with this fuckin meme already.
>>79948680
>>79947505
yeah but we've not sat through 30 years of nationalism? I think smaller constituencies allow for more democratic accountability. So if things are shitty with your nationalist government, you go see them in person. The EU removed this as an option for most people.
your FTFY doesn't really work. Nationalsim doesn't preclude trade agreements or international treaties. It simply places the needs and will of teh public first.
>>79948680
In need of reform. Not in need of a violent coup and civil war.
I'm sympathetic towards USSR, but saying that 1917 (just like 1991 btw) was anything but a disaster for the country is an incredible stretch.
>>79930913
Russians (i.e. Great-Russians, White-Russians and Little-Russians) are against communism, because we payed for everything in USSR and did not get anything good for it. They even expelled all Russians from communist party in "Leningrad case" decision, so we wont have any political power even just formally under their dictatorship.
Literally: all the soviet "nations" in USSR had meat, when we where not even promised to get low-quality-spam-tier sausages with expired shelf life.
Others are against communism on public, because they want to blame their rule on Russians, as in "it`s Russian, because Russian slaves where forced to pay for us and our politics".
Really they do not give a fuck. Like when ukraine, priebaltics, poolacks and other welfare niggers are trying to hold on to EUSSR, while it went full socialism.
>>79948680
It was as good, as it could be. All the needed reforms, including liberalisation, where in progress, but (((liberals))) where not happy, that reforms did not implemented utopia right here right now.
>>79931616
Lenin fucked up beyond belief and destroyed any possibility of democracy with his stupid October revolution
>>79949852
Thank you, anglos, for sponsoring lenin and basically building commie terrorist organisation "bolsheviks" from scratch.
Soviets did some things all right.
They were industrious, and dedicated much of their public resources to educating their children science, math, philosophy, etc. They had summer camps where kids and teens learned friendship, comradery, love for their country, and the spirit of hard work.
Their programs and benefits for kids put America's "tater tots and chicken nuggets" school lunches to fucking shame.
All the brainwashing and censorship was shit tho. Not that it doesn't happen here, it's just a lot more subtle here. (arguably for the worse. at least in the USSR people realized they were being programmed)
>>79930913
Communism only works in theory because, in theory, human beings are selfless and would all work at acceptable rates even if given unconditional uniform pay, simply because the work they do benefits the country.
Liberals, being wide-eyed idealists seem to forget that humans are assholes and communism leads to no one working because "why put any effort into work when we all get the same pay regardless?"
>>79930913
>college liberals in the west
well there you have it
>>79948864
Solid example.
>>79948906
Many countries have sat through more than 30 years of nationalism with no positive results.
There are other countries besides the UK, anon.
I agree with your following argument, but it still doesn't make the case for blind hatred of globalism.
>>79949153
And what if a violent coup and civil war was the only way for reform?
To be fair, it largely has been for slavic states.
Besides, was this not an argument about COMMUNISM itself? What Lenin did, with the coup, that's not the system. What he did, when he was in power - that's the system.
I don't talk about how he came to power, I talk about what happened when he did.
>>79949832
>It was as good, as it could be
Sure...
>>79950492
Pretty much, not to mention sports, among other things.
>>79951142
Hit the nail on the head there, except its about the leadership, not the people. They're not selfless and are assholes when they're given power and therein lies its fault.
>>79930913
same reason why suburban white girls join BLM rallies. Grew up in a white neighbourhood with 1 middle class black family? Oh blacks are wonderful. Actually grew up in a black neighbourhood? Yeah, you know the truth.
>>79937243
>Socialism means a central-planned economy
And central-planned societal policies and infrastructures.
Welfare states are socialist by nature, Europe is a social-democracy, it lays on both socialism and capitalism.
So it isn't technically wrong to say it's socialist.
The way these things are intertwined in European societies are quite unique worldwide, so I don't mind when people abroad have troubles classifying it.
>>79934853
>unchecked capitalism
