Should alcoholics get the same priority for liver transplants as non-alcoholics?
>>79672677
Probably not. I think as it currently stands they do not. I am not 100% on that though. I mean they fucked things up for themselves rather than someone else that maybe had some misfortune outside of their control.
>>79672677
Personally I don't think they should, but I need to argue otherwise for an assignment, any ideas?
>>79672677
alcoholism is a disease. the alcoholic didn't choose to destroy his liver!
>>79672677
Only if they pass a comprehensive test.
>>79673203
this
>>79673203
Thats BS alcoholics choose to drink in excess therefore choosing to get the disease.
>>79673203
but couldn't you argue that the alcoholic is responsible for seeking treatment for his alcoholism?
There are resources such as alcoholics anonymous that help him fight his addiction.
>>79673603
and you choose to be a faggot and suck dicks, yet i'm pretty sure you're not doing it voluntarily
>>79673659
gee anon, wouldn't you seek treatment for a disease?
The #1 reason for needing a liver transplant is hepatitis, yet everyone hates on alcoholics for "doing it to themselves"..
Really makes me think
>>79673769
and drinking alcohol makes you vulnerable to hepatitis
wow, it's fucking nothing
>>79672677
Should overweight people get the same priority for liver transplants as non-overweight?
...just some backstory, apparently not only alcoholics get fatty liver disease, and overweight people can get it and like alcoholic fatty liver it leads to cirrohsis. Come to think of it should people with hepatitis get the same priority?
>>79673882
I'm just saying there are lots of degenerates on that list that deserve the same hate as the alcoholics.
>>79673754
Homosexuality is a conscious choice actually. There's no fag gene.
>>79673769
Hepatitis is just inflammation of the liver, hepa- is the root for liver -itis is the root for inflammation.
>>79673203
>alcoholics shifting blame from their pathetic selves
I remember a speaker came in to tell us about his "battle against the disease known as alcoholism" and I got ISSP for saying "Why don't you just stop drinking? I wasn't born with an addiction to television."
>>79674144
Unless you're a pedant, hepatitis implies one of the viruses.
>>79673603
There supposedly is a noticeable mutation in the brain of people susceptible to developing the addiction, and it's usually in people who come from a family of alcoholics.
It also has been shown that long-term alcohol abuse does alter the shape of the brain, so it's not so far fetched.
First ask who the other people that are getting the transplant have lost it to. There are other diseases, STDs, poor lifestyle, other drugs, and more that could have lead to their weakened liver.
Secondly, eliminate the alcoholics that don't know that binge drinking causes liver damage. A lot don't. Maybe they heard about it somewhere, but don't think they're drinking enough to cause it. What if someone drinks half what they see other alcoholics drinking and still end up needing a liver transplant?
Then ask, what if they're legit alcoholics and contribute more to society and create greater moral good than someone that took care of just their own body? If I donate 10x more and help the community 10x more than someone that just takes care of their own body, wouldn't it make more sense that the person giving more gets back more? In this case a liver?
Finally, it's really hard to judge one individual against another. Genetics, hard life, and a lack of a support structure could have lead them into it. They've been denied a healthy environment growing up, have no one to fall back on for support, alcohol their only short relief from misery, and now we'll deny them even more support by saying they don't get to live? That's not our place to judge.
>>79674129
I do think it is a mental problem in some, and an emotional problem in others. That's why some people can go through a phase or be pressured into being a homosexual, and realise down the line that they are not actually attracted to the same sex, (emotional) and then there are others that people can see are most likely going to be homosexual even when they are very young, (mental).
And some people are honestly just degenerate slots who place sex itself above sexual orientation, ( but that may be another aspect of the emotional problem reason).
Speaking as someone who has a fucked up liver for no reason and may need a transplant:
NO.
>>79673659
>responsible
what if you're in a car crash and now you need a new liver: did you really need to drive wherever the fuck? surely you could have walked there, that have been the healthier choice.
i'm an alcoholic and i didn't choose this disease, it chose me. when i need a new liver i expect to be viewed just as worthy of one as anyone else.
>>79673769
Auto Immuine Hepatitis, retard?
>>79672677
No. They'd end up wasting a liver that could have gone to someone else.
>>79673203
By this logic he should be even less eligible for a liver as he posses an unstoppable disease which will make his liver go to waste anyway.
>>79675242
>waste
you don't know what i contribute to society with my liver.
>>79675485
Getting shit faced and pissing in the street? Getting fired from the most rudimentary of jobs?
Should I give new lungs to the 40 year pack a day smoker or the guy in a car crash?
>>79672677
As someone who could be described as a high functioning alcoholic, I still say no. There is no reason I can see as to why I should have priority over someone who actually tries to take care of their liver. I workout regularly, but still, I know that I have knowingly done damage to my organs through drinking, and I think people who have problems that are not self-inflicted should have priority.
>>79672677
No, you make your bed.
>>79672677
OP is an idiot because you are not even eligible for surgery if you've had alcohol in the last six months
>>79676051
What? Nobody would be allowed to have surgery then
>>79672845
Go with the 'we must do what we can, where we can, when we can'. Their transgressions against themselves shouldn't disqualify them from an opportunity to change. Chances on the list are low for everyone maybe you could jew some math to make it seem like they wouldn't have a large impact on the likelihood of others getting livers- they have to be at the top when a match for them rolls around - so adding them to the list doesn't absolutely mean little stacy isn't going to get a liver, since they wouldn't be in consideration for the same one.
That's probably your best bet- make it kids vs adults. Frame your argument as if most people with liver failure as adults are alcoholics. Blur that line until it seems like all adults with liver failure are alcoholics. Then it will be easier to argue that they aren't bumping kids and innocents off the list by being on it because kids don't get grown up livers in transplants.
Then blur the rest over with kind thoughts and good intentions. People like feeling gracious over logic so that part should be the easiest to hammer home.
Hell of an assignment, good luck with it. Try channeling your inner jew. Remember if you can't argue the facts frame them differently until you can. Make your window so small they can't disagree with you without being the bad people.
>>79676051
no need for name calling, you can still be an alcoholic without drinking for six months.
Actually I think you just saved my ass. The paper I have to respond to only mentions the recidivism rate for alcoholics who have abstained for 6 months. If this abstinence was only done in preparation for surgery, then that would mean that they haven't completed the full twelve steps bullshit yet right? Therefore, this statistic that the author gives is invalid right?
>>79676372
>their transgressions against themselves shouldn't disqualify them from an opportunity to change
I like that, I think I'll use that in my paper if you don't mind.
>>79676346
he meant for liver transplants.
>>79672677
The solution is to 1) convince churches, synagogues and mosques to allow organ donations and 2) create a private organ transplant list that caters to anyone cash.
>>79672677
No, and they don't, unless they're 6 months sober.
In my country an actively using alcoholic isn't even allowed to get a transplant from a family member.
t. Recovering alcoholic
>>79672677
>organ transplants
Just fucking die already!
>>79672677
I don't know how it is in the UK but in the US regular alcoholics are not eligible for liver transplants. The rich and powerful are exempt from that restriction though because of course they are.
I have to stop drinking now. The idea of the party ending just makes me want to kill myself with a rope instead of the bottle.
>>79678362
You're probably not as bad as I was. Thank fuck I quit.
Not to mention it was $52 for a cheap handle of whiskey at the time.
>>79674129
Did you choose to be heterosexual?
>>79675839
they're your lungs goy. if you want to become spare parts when you die you shouldn't be so self righteous.
