> most of /pol/ is working class
> for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor
> /pol/ votes for the business owners to have less taxes on their stolen money
explain!
>>79660568
>for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor
That's marxist bullshit kill yourself redditor frogposter
SAGE
The vast majority of /pol/ is on the opposite ends of society: either NEET or high income.
>labor = profit
By that logic, if I spent the entire day digging holes in the ground, I'd be the richest man in the universe, right?
>>79660568
I run a bricklaying outfit and everyone gets paid a livable wage, even the laborers.
Leftists would rather tax and regulate the shit out of me forcing me to downsize my crew to the point where it would be more profitable and less hassle to just work by myself.
>stolen money
Yeah. Talk to me when you're the guy who owns the truck, the tools, the forklift, negotiates contracts with local developers and builders, spends evenings out quoting jobs to make sure we stay busy all year. You expect to just show up to a private business and basically become a partner? You must be the stupidest nigga alive.
>>79661685
> owns the truck, the tools, the forklift, negotiates contracts with local developers and builders, spends evenings out quoting jobs to make sure we stay busy all year
under a socialist government the peple would own all the tools and the workers would negotiate contracts and find jobs
that way the workers would get paid the fair vale of their labor
having a boss is a outdated and useless idea
>>79662152
>implying a laborer without degrees knows how to manage industrial assets and HR
>implying a multitude of laborers doing something they know nothing about would be efficient
>implying scale economies do not exist
>implying hierarchy is optional in corporate environment
You badly need a reality check
>>79662152
It's not the labour which is valuable, but the products of that labour.
One hour negotiating a contract in a comfortable setting is more valuable than 12 hours of digging holes in the sun.
Labour theory of value is a nice thought, but frankly, I don't care if someone spends a week making a pair of shoes; if they're shit, they're shit.
>>79660568
you'd vote for Lucifer himself if you got 20 more dollars on your paycheck from Denny's
>>79662152
did your bk manager ride your ass today or something
>>79660568
The problem is, the left no longer care about the working class, all they care about is faggots, trannies and black people.
>>79660568
>m-muh economic self-interests
occupy memeorcrats please go
I'd rather be middle class in a white country than upper class in Africa
>>79662657
>>79662723
is this the hottest new maymay? i've seen it posted 10 times today.
How does it have anything to do with what i said
Conservatives are mice electing cats because the cats convince them they're mice, just like them.
>>79660568
>most of /pol/ is working class
Actually, like every other board, most of /pol/ are in education.
>>79662370
>>79662451
This is what socialists will never understand.
>>79662152
>dude like why doesn't everyone just be in charge
>>79660568
gr8 b8 mr. Marx
>>79662370
>>79662451
>>79662499
>>79663013
then explain why workers cooperatives have proven to be successful in america? makes you think huh?
Damn
>>79663229
Boy, I don't know about the US but cooperatives, which are typical in Italy since forever, are inefficient, lobbying, sneaky asses.
All they want is MUH PROTECTION and MUH SUBSIDY, as they are not able to withstand competiton.
I think they didn't actually work in the US. Gimme sources.
>>79660568
>explain!
conservitards are very stupid, and very very gullible.
>>79660568
>Vote for the left
>Flood country with immigrants
>Wages go down
>Working class neighborhoods get culturally enriched while the middle and upper classes are unaffected
>>79662152
What if I don't want to work for the glorious proletariat? Why is work a good thing? What happens to people who don't want to participate in socialism?
>paid less than the value of your labor
But the trade off is that I have a constant steady purchaser of my labor.
Also, kill your self Marxist cuck
>>79660568
wtf I hate finances now.
>>79660568
Was just fapping to some /gif/ stuff.
Why does autocorrect correct fapping ?
Get with it, Ivanka, Black gay nigger dudes run the interwebs.
>>79660568
why would i vote for more of my money being taken from me so jamal can sling dope and collect welfare?
>>79662152
>the peple would own all the tools
Do you want to hand over $10k or whatever of your own savings to buy a stake in a business when you're hired on.
Because you do realize that's basically what you're saying, right?
You commies either have no fucking idea what you think you want really means. Or you don't really want to own the means of production and still want other people to put up all the capital and take all the risks, but then give you the profits even though you risked nothing and have no skin in the game.
Oh please. The working class shouldn't even have the vote, they have proven themselves to be inferior by staying in poverty. I was born into poverty and now I have an income over £60,000 a year throgh hard work, determination and skill.
I am sick of hearing you dreggs of society constantly whinging, we already have to subsidise your wages, healthcare, schooling etc.. with our taxes and you still just want more and more handouts.
Your kind doesn't deserve the vote or any civil rights whatsoever. We are the ones responsible for the greatness of our countries, always have been and always will be. The only reason it is shit now is because of """"""workers rights"""""""""" and """""""equal representation""""""".
>>79660568
>OH BOY, I CAN'T WAIT TO BE MORE TAXED.
Literally (you)
>>79660568
Republican vs Democrat in the US is a meme.
Neither address the most important issue.
>>79663229
>then explain why workers cooperatives have proven to be successful in america?
>workers coops
>successful
I own 1/2 of a gift shop/coffee shop and my own flooring store that I work with my wife and my wife's son. If you think taxing me above 50% is going to do anything other than convince me to lay off the gift shop workers and do that job myself you're pretty naive. Fuck doing installations myself if I'm only getting half
>>79665204
>Neither address the most important issue.
the demographics?
>>79663925
>making some arguments agaisnt Republicans
>BUH-BUH-BUT MUH DEMOCRATS!!!!!!!111!!
Never change
>>79663949
What happens to people who don't want to work for a capitalist boss? What happens to people who don't want to participate in capitalism?
Well, here is the answer you want
>They get sent to Gulags xD
>>79665204
WEED
>>79660568
Explain how working my ass off and then giving away a large portion to people who don't work is actually the non-cuck way.
Give up, we the people still have the vote. Even if The Donald is a con man, at least electing him will say fuck you to existing con men of our political elite.
>>79664854
>Do you want to hand over $10k or whatever of your own saving
>implying most workers can put down 10k for bad investments
>Because you do realize that's basically what you're saying, right?
No it's not.
labor theory of value?
how does this ancient meme keep cropping up
>>79665304
>>workers coops
>I own 1/2 of a gift shop/coffee shop
HAHAHAHAHA, americans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
>>79665402
working class needs
>>79665562
How else do you propose workers "own the means of production" if they don't purchase stocks/a stake in the business?
If those "evil" capitalists did not exist as would be the case in your socialist utopia, who else but the workers would provide the capital to allow the business to function?
>>79665435
>Explain how working my ass off and then giving away a large portion to people who don't work is actually
that is exactly capitalism you mong
ITT temporarily embarrassed millionaires
>>79665304
Lol that didn't rebute what he said
>>79665518
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
It does not mean that the retard respnsible to clean the machines will suddenly be the one negotiating the selling of company stock
>>79665426
>What happens to people who don't want to work for a capitalist boss? What happens to people who don't want to participate in capitalism?
They get welfare and NEETbux generally. Whereas in socialism you're told to work or you starve (Lenin's words).
>>79665562
So in your situation you'd have a worker join a 'group' and immediately be given 10k worth of tools/materials?
Some explanation is needed
>>79660568
> most of /pol/ is working class
Is there any reason at all why you assume this?
so I still get paid the same but I'm not being taxed as much either? ok, great, thanks conservatism
>>79660568
Transferring wealth to non-whites is far less cucked.
>>79665754
wait, are you trolling? You can't be that dumb.
>>79665696
Workers owning the means of production is a big meme
When it's going well, it's socialism (Venezuela pre-2014)
When it's going badly, it's state capitalism (Venezuela right now)
You'll never win, they just weasel out of it
>>79665435
This, it's all about who is the bigger cuck, and right now, OP is
>>79665696
>How else do you propose workers "own the means of production" if they don't purchase stocks/a stake in the business?
I don't know nor i care. But that is not what he was saying. I would guess direct control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Socialism is not a utopia.
>>79665795
>b-b-b-but my ANECDOTE say I am r-right!
Man, there are tens of thousands of cooperatives in Italy. They drag public finances and don't pay their fair share of taxes. I know what I'm talking about.
>>79660733
I doubt ppl with high income would have time to waste on an fucking Chinese cartoon board.
>>79660568
>Implying Neet's are working class
>>79665807
>They get welfare and NEETbux generally.
Then possibly the same would happen in a socialist society.
>Lenin's words
So?
>>79660568
>I don't know what the word conservative means
>>79666034
>people stop coming to 4chan when <condition> xDDDD
>>79665828
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative
This is somewhat close to how it would work
>>79665860
put NEETs in working class and its true
>>79666136
Face it ppl have potential to climb won't have time to waste here, mostly.
>>79665675
I was assuming you meant a coop where the workers own the means of production. Yes the terminology wasn't very good but please explain how you propose workers would go about owning the means of production
>>79665907
>What is welfare
>What is capitalist income
>>79665907
>What is rent seeking?
>>79660568
>> for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor
objectively false. Kill yourself
>>79660568
Shouldnt the excess money go to the people who actually built the machines then not the factory workers ?
>>79660568
Socialism is the result of survivorship bias. People only see the successful businesses and don't think of the many failed business.
>>79666329
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Marx%2c%20Karl%2c%201818-1883
>>79660568
>Not being the owner of your tools, your workshop, your material and your funding.
T O P C U C K
>>79666555
Why are the portuguese so dumb?
>>79666098
>Then possibly the same would happen in a socialist society.
I doubt it. Everyone is given a job and anyone slacking usually got exiled, shot or starved
>So?
He created the only lasting socialist state and his writings have been a cornerstone of Marxism for a century now.
>>79660568
voting liberal means flooding the country with sand niggers
>>79666273
Productive people work 100% of the time, of course.
>>79665402
Monetary issues and corruption in the financial system.
>>79666210
So you want to make it so that only people who own a share of the coop can work and those who cannot afford to buy in can't work? There's nothing wrong with hiring people who want to work
>>79666555
Marx doesn't explain it either which is why you're struggling to answer
>>79666636
>Everyone is given a job and anyone slacking usually got exiled, shot or starved
>USSR was a perfect example of socialism and everything that USSR did can be expected in the future
>everything i need to know about socialism i learned it with USSR by Fox News
If you vote dem this year, you're voting for the biggest crony capitalist thus far. Things change anon.
>>79660568
>for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor
Still working on outdated 19th century economics I see. Value is subjective.
>>79666273
The thing is that 4chan is old. Most of us are shitposing for more than 10 years on here.
10 years is a long time.
>>79666436
Its actually true, but in the sense that your labor is nothing without the means of production, research and development, and marketing.
This is why minimum wage should be abolished, it gives no incentive for the market to offer better wages (or adapt to lower wages = prices match them) as low skill labor is always in supply.
If anything is outdated its socialist concepts that served people during the industrial era but stifle innovation and progress now.
>>79666875
It was the only successful and lasting socialist state. The libertarian attempts like the Paris Commune and Catalonia ended in bloodshed, because they were unable to survive. The reality is authoritarian Soviet style socialism is the only way you'll ever maintain a socialist society, with brute force.
>>79661132
No its surplus labor. There's a certain point where you've given the owner more in labor than he has given you in compensation.
>>79666864
>So you want to make it so that only people who own a share of the coop can work and those who cannot afford to buy in can't work?
I'm a social democrat, so a capitalist still. I'm not a socialist intelectual
>Marx doesn't explain it either which is why you're struggling to answer
Have you read him?
>>79667069
How do you measure that?
>>79666273
This is my spending money for the month (and I probably won't spend it and end up making more). Fuck off.
>>79667053
>The reality is authoritarian Soviet style socialism is the only way you'll ever maintain a socialist society, with brute force.
So you claim. But let's see in the future
>>79667226
Oh I thought you were saying you were socialist. I read something by him back in college when my younger brother was going through a Marxist phase
labour cost isnt a set value
a man with a shovel does less labour than a man with a digger
>>79667405
If there is a socialist society where people are genuinely free and can be left alone without some overbearing authority relocating them and employing them, that sounds good to me. I'm just sceptical, seems too utopian.
>>79660568
>Misusing the picture of kek the almighty
Do you WANT to be crucified?
>>79665304
>wife's son
Cuck'd. Raising another man's spawn is the literal definition of bluepill.
> for the owner of your business to profit he must pay you less than the value of your labor
Stop. The value of anything is determined by how much someone is willing to pay for it.
sage
>>79660568
>Voting progressive/liberal/socialist/democrat/cancer
>You need to pay more taxes for the unemployed niggers
>More welfare to prop lazy nigger leeches up
>More regulations
>More immigration=less jobs and less money
>More inflation and higher cost of living
If you work and vote democrat you might as well blow your brains out (oh wait guns are also banned)
In this day and age, most western countries will not have a socialist party rise to power.
Most 1st world countries have these options:
Rich are taxed very slightly more, high immigration and diversity.
Rich are taxed slightly less, tighter grip on immigration.
Most of the economics won't bother the every man. There are no more extremes. It's just boring centrism until we die now.
>>79668363
>The market can't be distorted
>>79668712
We will see terrible things in our lives.
I can assure you of that.
>tfw about 21k in assets
>23k in liabilities (student loan + car)
>>79667336
>16k
>Successful
