alright /pol/, I want a fair discussion here. Let's settle this once and for all. Did Atlantis exist? Also, I would like everyone to understand firstly that Archeology is not a 'science;' it is not 'stem;' it is a social science, and the theories are based on pre-existing knowledge. Archeology was originally created to discover the truth behind the bible, so that was the original hypothesis. Because of this, we are greatly hindered in our efforts towards truth.
Keep in mind, Atlantis is not pop culture Atlantis. Atlantis is the name for the pre-flood maritime civilization that spanned a large portion of earth, and existed alongside Greek and Egyptian civilizations. I will be providing the evidence for this place.
We will be talking about the heritage and culture of all peoples of the northern hemisphere going back thousands of years, and what caused particular declines.
pic related is Haplogroup X. I believe that 'Atlantis' existed who knows how long ago, up until 11,400 years ago, when there was a cataclysmic flood that destroyed it and brought everyone back into basic survival mode. I don't think we have to discuss the truth behind the flood, it is literally in every single old cultures "myths." That means to me that it is NOT an "archetype," but a true story. In fact, Greeks, Egyptians, Chinese, and some Native Americans, all have the date of the flood at the EXACT same time. ~11,000 years ago.
I hope we can have a fair discussion over this, because I want it settled. Humans at that time were more intelligent on average than we are now, but there was a lower gross number of geniuses, due to population. The rise of agriculture has led to dysgenics in terms of intelligence and physical fitness. This completely follows a normal theory of evolution. When survival becomes agricultural, the alphas no longer get all the chicks. That is my opinion.
>>79628405
Geology, though, IS a science. Geology is based on actual instruments calculating actual times. According to them, the sphinx is wayyyyy older than we think (because it is worn down by rain and flooding.. so it must have been a time when egypt was tropical)
pic related is a map of the world in the last ice age. The oceans were 400 feet lower.
Now, keep in mind, there were large swathes of humans at the time of atlantis that were wild. Why? Same reason there are now. There are places where people have no civilization, to this day, so it's not a surprise that "look at this grave they aren't a civilization"
The ocean levels being 400 feet lower poses a problem: Most of this ancient civilization is probably now under water. Why? Because humans, ESPECIALLY civilized humans, tend to live near coastal areas, because the oceans are highways of trade, and because this is the only way for a larger civilization to bloom during those times. It is much easier to travel from Greece to Sicily by boat than by horseback, even back then.
>>79628405
bump
>>79628860
pic related is a picture of Gobekli Tepe. I am building to something here. Ok so, Gobekli Tepe is probably around 15,000 years old, at least. The current (((theory))) is that there were nomadic tribes of savages everywhere on earth at this time, then one day, they just decided to build a HUGE temple, to the stars
Since they wanted to build this huge complex, they also at the same time developed: agriculture (to supply their workers), government (to enlist the help of workers, who get their pay in food/ goods from farmers), engineering (nomads don't need engineering so they invented it to make this temple), and I mean, the list goes fuckin ON. Does that make sense?
Oh and another thing. The current (((theory))) would have you believe that "asians crossed the berring land bridge about 50,000 years ago and settled the americas. Then one day, they decided to build pyramids, just like the egyptians, chinese, bosnians, north africans, malaysians, indians etc etc all at the same time. Yes they were separated for 42,000 years, but they just all 'decided' to build pyramids at RELATIVELY THE EXACT SAME TIME'
My theory: why are there no european pyramids? because europe was under ice. Also, the ice could have stretched lower, depending on how the earth was at the time. What happened on "December 21, 2012" with the mayan calendar was we hit a maximum with the earth's wobble. The earth wobbles over 26,000 years. We hit one of it's maximums. When was the last? ~13,000 years. Coincidence? annywwaayy,, Depending on how the earth was tilted, the ice sheets could have been in different places than what we would today predict.
now, back to gobekli tepe. Check the sculpture here and I will come through with an impressive and startling bit of information.
(oh, and also, why do south americans and central americans have a god who is the 'bringer of civilization' who came from the east on a ship, and is a white man with a beard? they dont have beards)
>>79629129
this next post is going to take a little bit because I am putting together a collage image
in the mean time, I want anyone monitoring this thread to remember that archeology is NOT a science.
Say I build a pyramid 5,000 years ago. Meteorite crash, my people die, WHATEVER. wildmen come along 3,000 years later, and they see this pyramid, so what do they do?
they do their religion in there.
They sacrifice people.
Well, present day, we find the pyramid. We are archeologists. Well. We determine that the pyramid is 2,000 years old! Because that is how old the bones in the pyramid are! That is not the truth, but that is all archeologists can do. Test organic matter, and make theories. That's why Gobekli Tepe BTFO them. Because they were all holdfast to the theory that civilization was at most 9,000 years old or whatever. Gobekli Tepe was BURIED. So the organic matter there had to be from the exact time that the people buried it. And it was 15,000 years old. So we know that it was buried at least 15,000 years ago. Many people think it is older.
I also want people to realize one other thing.
The modern archeology paradigm is corrupted. For one thing, they are not evolutionary biologists. So they think that "humans having civilization tens of thousands of years ago that eventually collapsed, does not go along with evolution." I mean, at least that's what I think they think. That in order for evolution to be true, we as modern humans in current year must be the pinnacle of humans, the most intelligent, etc.
anyway, next post will take a minute.
pic related are all totally unrelated and these people decided to build them because "building pyramids is easy" oh and also they all built them at the exact same time with absolutely zero contact between eachother because they all decided it would probably be kinda cool and stuff so they dedicated hundreds of thousands/ millions of man hours per pyramid so it would be like, a cool building you know?
t. archeologist
>>79628405
bump
Bump 4 interest, currently reading
>>79628405
Wonder if OP will talk about Antartica ?
Atlantis was a thought experiment. It's common knowledge that the place has never existed. There was never a debate or a search for Atlantis, because it's just a hypothetical place in a book.
Kill yourself.
>>79631575
^
Atlantis was literally made up by Plato as part of an allegory and anyone who believes it was real should be euthanized.
>>79631217
>>79631370
OP here. I just got finished spending 9000 years in paint on pic related. This is the "mysterious man bag," that people have realize sculptures all over the world (especially the middle east, and the americas, aka every old civilization) have.
In every instance, the person depicted is the bringer of civilization, the bringer of light, their "gods" if you would like.
I ask you this
If there were a tribe of savages, and suddenly a man appeared who taught them mathematics, logic, writing, engineering, etc, would they not depict him?
so guys, I ask you. what is in the bag? I believe it must be a book of some sort. Who knows really. The world is full of mysteries.
>>79631575
Atlantis is not a hypothetical place in a book. Actually, Plato even says that it exists "9,000 years before the time of Solon" You know what date that was? ~11,500 years ago.
In future posts I will be providing clear evidence that the oceans were once 400 feet lower, and other proofs that there was a worldwide civilization that was destroyed because of a flood/ series of floods.
What would happen if there was a cataclysm right now? I'll tell you what wouldn't happen. People would not retain the ability to read after 3 generations. More important things to do, like survive day to day.
>>79631448
Yes, many people believe that Atlantis is actually antarctica, due to that one map (also, thanks, I will post that map next picture)
seriously guys, if you want, you guys can be posting images of sunken cities, or other ancient archeology, because I can only post one picture per post, and I am trying to type out as much info as possible. I will be returning to my other computer
>>79628405
Bumping
>>79632090
>>79631575
"haha yea bro! guys who figured out how to make boats that can make a one month journey!? you'd have to be a retard to think that they could do that x time ago. its so obvious that they could only do it y time ago, and noone om earth was capable before that, even though separate civilizations thousands of miles away have done it at different stages in their development. heh, sorry kid, but what my books said in high school are 100% the truth"
>>79628405
>archaeology is not a science
What is processual archaeology? What is radio-carbon dating? What is thermoluminescence dating? What is geophysics?
Marxists like Ian Hodder railed against the focus on the scientific method in processual archaeology because it didn't allow them to focus on gender and class. It gave hard facts, that was it.
>>79632244
Wonderful ! What about Japan/Asia in general ?
pic related is Yonaguni ruins. (((experts))) say it's a natural structure.
>>79632601
>>79632283
There are over 200 known sunken cities in the mediterranean. The mediterranean was a perfect location for maritime civilizations to pop up, on account of the ease at which trade could be carried out.
My posts will be a little shorter now, so I can provide more pictures. Thank you guys for standing by and for the support.
Whether you call it Atlantis, or anything else, the fact is, there was a civilization that spanned vast oceanic distances, that utilized stone calendars and the stars/ sun/ moon, probably as a way to keep track of trade deadlines, and once you build one of those giant stone sundials and calendars, you can easily teach the locals how to plant crops, when to plant crops, etc, and suddenly, you have successfully created a trade partner whom is beholden to you.
>>79628405
What's your opinion on Doggerbank and the Garten of Eden being located in Persian Gulf.
>>79632244
Pls continue im enjoying your theories
>Inb4 it was Aliens
Btw u guys hear of the theory thst humana are like 3% pig?
>>79630354
If you were an actual archaeologist you'd know that dating methods are not entirely accurate. Just because bones were found in a site does not mean whoever that person was built that site. The site itself could, and probably is, much older. I have no doubt that civilised societies
existed before writing, Gobekli Tepe is good evidence towards it. Hell, the Gobekli people could have had writing and record of it has just been lost. We will never build a true picture of human history, and as we find more sites like Gobekli Tepe, the timeline will just get blurrier.
>>79633019
>>79631448
regarding Antarctica.
The Piri Reis map is a well known map, or set of maps, that was created before the americas was colonized. It was created in 1513. While it is unimpressive that the map depicts North America, what IS impressive is that it depicts antarctica!
Also, sailors were supposed to have not "discovered" antarctica by that time!
but the weirdest part?
antarctica is seemingly drawn all wrong.
In fact, antarctica is not drawn "wrong" on the map, antarctica is drawn almost perfectly. But it is only perfect, if you use modern technology to map antarctica's shape under the ice. Yes, that's right, this map depicts antarctica without ice on it.
Now. The Piri Reis map is known to have been copied from other maps, which are now destroyed. How did they get this shape of antarctica then?
Either
A. Antarctica's ice is a million years old in some spots, like mountain tops, but it is much much younger at other spots. This would make alot of sense because when the oceans were 400 feet lower, the ice at antactica you would expect would be more, so the map was made from maps that are older than that.
B. they got lucky! Yes, this is the current theory put forth by archeology (if they even touch this map at all). The mapmakers guessed there was a continent there, and they guessed it's shape under the ice! Makes much more sense.
>>79633481
you do realize that they just made the whole western part one huge continent because they had no idea what is there? Maps back there were notorious for their "here be dragons" approach about unknown lands. The map does not depict antartica but a continued land mass of america. And it has snakes in place where only glaciers should be.
>>79632777
geophysics is a sciene. archeology is a social science it is not a hard science.
>The National Science Foundation classifies archaeology as a social science in some ways. The Archaeology program is part of the Directorate of Social, Behavioral, and Economic Sciences, but it is NOT part of the Division of Social and Economic Sciences with the other major social sciences. Instead, we are part of the Division of Behavioral and Cognitive Sciences, which includes psychology, geography, and "Anthropological Sciences," which in turn includes archaeology
>>79633214
I hate the aliens guys. Because it is unnecessary. Even the "elongated skulls" of people could be completely natural. And I don't mean by head binding. I mean if a culture selected for head shape, in 10 generations heads would be shaped that way. Also I find it reallyyy interesting that those elongated skull people typically don't have big heads in the sense of how we think grey aliens do, but they are elongated. If they were simply bigger, the mother would be unable to birth them, but the elongated shape, a mother could still birth that child.
>>79633278
>>79633023
>>79632818
>>79632601
>>79632283
If you guys want, you can check out this documentary, keep an open mind about it. Also, remember, if even one thing that this man is showing is true, then we would have to completely rewrite our origins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHwKmHfdo8
but please, don't get too sucked into it, because I myself have more information and theories to put forth.
>>79633950
Was the world more fertile during the Ice Age? Also, what exactly was going on in East Asia? And does Southeast Asia have their own flood myth, considering they weren't an island during this time....
>>79633950
Archaeology uses the scientific method and uses a lot of specialised technology for dating objects. Look at osteoarchaeology, for example. You need scientific knowledge of the human body to draw conclusions.
So someone on the internet found atlantis! Neat job! Narnia next? Westeros? Coruscant? Enlighten me op i cannot wait
Top notch RPing, OP.
>>79633944
that's not the whole map, there are many parts to it.
I understand your criticism though, I am glad you are keeping an open mind. I was equally as skeptical for a long long time, and let me tell you, you can't truly be trusted unless you are that skeptical. It's not that I just believe anything I read/ hear, it's that I have been looking at this stuff for years, and once you do that, there is way too much information to ignore.
Also, the theory is not crazy, in the least bit. I mean, come on, is it that hard to believe that humans could have a civilization older than what we think?
Think about it, we were horse and buggy 200 years ago, and since then look where we are? It's not that hard to believe that peoples could have advanced significantly further than hunter gatherer in the past, only to be killed by plague, by war, anything. And our advancement is from a culture of captialism. Not dogging capitalism, but I'm saying, consider a free trade society that valued science/ invention as it's highest achievement? Kind of like enlightment and renaissance era europe, a culture that values science and discovery advances farrr quicker than one that is purely based on supply and demand.
>>79633328
>>79633278
Thank you for your contribution. You know, I don't have many theories about the garden of eden, but I do believe that the bible is based off of true stories for the most part, whether copied from others or recorded at the time it was written.
as a person who loves learning, I feel an extreme burning anger/ sadness at the thought of the Library of Alexandria being burned, as well as the Mayan Codices. One of the biggest tragedies of history. Perhaps had they survived we would have a much clearer picture of the past.
Do you believe that ancient man could potentially have been smarter on average than we are, and that his culture degenerated him? I believe civilization rises, immigrants come in, and it degenerates.
>>79634674
Adam and Eve is an allegory for human evolution. We were first animals happy in the garden of eden. Then we disobeyed God and gained sentience through the "tree of knowledge." And thus, we were cast out and into this miserable world. It's a very anti-civilization take on mankind, but considering the time it was written in, it makes sense that such memories would be considered.
>>79630354
arent bosnian pyramids a hoax?
>>79634185
>>79634332
yes, I know what it uses, but it can not date stone.
you see absolutely no problem with an entire field operating under one grand theory, and those whom go against that grand theory both lose their tenure and become ostracized by the archeological community at large?
nothing at all wrong with that?
the truth is that if you are an archeologist, there are very very few people who will give you funding, and if you come back to them with information and a theory that doesn't fit with the current theory, your information will be repressed as a mistake that doesn't fit with the grand theory and you will never get funding again. You know that, right?
archeology is damaged, damaged by it's historical baggage. Archeologists used to believe that dinosaurs lived alongside humans, because it was initially a christian enterprise. Now they refuse to believe civilization is older. If you had a theory that civilizations dated back 15,000 years ago, up until the discovery of gobekli tepe, you would never get another job in the field again. That is not hard science. Yes they use many scientific methods, but that doesn't mean that the field as a whole operates on a purely theoretical and hypothesis-proof basis.
Archeologists all have to fit their discoveries with current theories. Again, read my post on gobekli tepe. even with the dating, archeologists refuse to believe it is that old, and if they do, they maintain that it was built by "a group of peoples whom were previously simply nomads" that, upon the decision to build this site, completely changed their way of life and invented civilization amongst themselves?
civilization does not HAVE to spread you know. It can pop up independently in places, and be destroyed, with other people none the wiser.
I don't know why people get so butthurt at this fact. I don't know why people have to try to character assassinate me. It's the truth. From a purely objective standpoint, the theory of humanity would differ.
To anyone who is wondering, OP is basically stating the theories of Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson. They appear on a 3 hour podcast on the Joe Rogan Experience and discuss literally everything OP has stated to this point. If anyone is interested in hearing the theories from the men themselves, here is the youtube link - I recommend everyone to watch it if you have time because these theories are honestly very interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8
>>79635011
I see it as an allegory for the neolithic revolution.
It's funny how Genesis is all about farming,
even the conflict between Kain and Abel goes down to a conflict between settled people and nomads.
>>79635626
Yeah. That makes more sense. Humans lived in perfection as hunter-gatherers, but then moved onto agricultural civilization. IDK if we will ever know the true intent though.
>>79628405
Yes, Atlantis did exist albeit not as fancy as everone suspects. The city was located on an island not far from Donana national park in andalusia and sank after an earthquake in antiquity much like the Indonesian Tsunami of 2005. Because the island was somewhat marshy like Venice most if not all was swept off the topside land.
Secondly, the famous mythical orichalcum of atlantis is actually a basic alloy of copper and gold similar to electrum but the percentages are unknown since the formula has been lost to time.
>>79635435
oh! I love the bosnian pyramids. I don't believe they are a hoax.
This is a PERFECT example of my point about archeology.
The bosnian pyramids don't fit into the archeology narrative. They are far too large (makes egyptologists butthurt) and far too old:
>One of the greatest findings of 2012 came in the month of June, during the first volunteer shift: the team led by Italian archaeologists, Dr. Riccardo Brett and Niccolo Bisconti, discovered a fossilized leaf on top of one of the concrete blocks covering the Pyramid of the Sun.
>This organic material was sent to the radiocarbon dating lab in Kiev, Ukraine; lab results showed that the leaf is 24,800 years old (+/- 200 years). This date potentially shows the earliest age of the pyramidal structure.
>When the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun was first discovered in 2005, researchers estimated the age of the pyramid by measuring the age of the topsoil covering it. The radiocarbon measurements showed that the topsoil is up to 12,000 years old. The carbon dating of the fossilized leaf sheds new light onto what may be the true age of this Pyramid.
>If the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun is 25,000+ years old, this fact implies that the Pyramid was built by the oldest civilization known to mankind. As it currently stands in the books, the oldest human civilizations are the Sumerian and the Babylonian civilizations, who are approximately 5,000 years old.
But pic related. You tell me. Is this man made? No, it musnt be. Why? Because that wouldn't go along with our current theory!
Again, I believe that a misunderstanding of evolution is one of the pillars of this folly. They think that if humans had advanced civilization in the past, that fell, then evolution must somehow "not be true." Evolution is not an endgame, though, we are not the species that is "meant" to continuously evolve towards higher and higher intelligence.
Anyway, I'm sure you guys know this.
>>79636017
Evolution is not a linear path that all life follows. Evolution is like water; it adapts to the most efficient form for the current enviornment.
Human sentience, on the other hand, is a different matter. Read the short story 'Blindsight' by Peter Watts for more on that.
My point is, I dont think evolution and human intelligence are necessararily relevant to each other in this topic. Of course it's possible, and I agree with the idea that there are lost civilizations that are much, MUCH older than what we know. That doesn't mean that they were more or less advanced than us genetically.
>>79636017
>we are not the species that is "meant" to continuously evolve towards higher and higher intelligence.
What do you mean by this? I'll stick around the thread and try to provide some of my own input, because the theories really could change EVERYTHING if they are proven correct.
interesting stuff OP
makes sense
also archaeology is a shit-tier 'science', theyre just people who do groundwork by excavating. the theories they propose are dubious at best
pic related is an elongated skull person. How many generations would have to be selected for to get this far?
How many Germanic 7 foot talls would you have to breed to get a race of giants?
>>79635604
yes, I am. also check the video I posted. I like this guy better than graham hancock and randall carlson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHwKmHfdo8
>>79635947
yea, the problem is popular culture has made it into a flying cars and underwater deep sea bubble cities type idea.
maybe check the video I just posted.
>>79635626
>>79635435
>>79635011
I think it is also in modern global government's best interest for us to not know that older civilizations existed. "Sure there were egyptians, and mayans, but they were basically primitives."
I think in their opinions, if we knew that we had grand civilizations 50,000 years ago, we would become restless and wonder what has happened, or if we knew that humans were more intelligent in the past, there may be movements that seek to incentivize eugenics to return us there, and the problem is that global "elites" want to dysgenics us into 2 separate races; them the hyper intelligent overlord race that selectively breeds for intelligence, and us the 90 IQ worker race.
Adam and eve is definitely an allegory, but who knows if it originally included "humans angering god"
in my opinion it initially would have been an allegory, and the writers of the old testament wanted to say "well this story shows that god was this" and "this happened because god felt this way," etc.
When you realize what would be left of us 1,000 years from now if a meteor hit earth now, it would be in our interest to write our own modern white man's holy book. The jews had a jump on us; they were coming out of a failed civilization, but came out of it with a book that had rules to follow with the nature of power. So we were just learning finance, law, etc, they had been passing down this book and the ability to read and write since the last time.
>>79636017
Every post you've made is absolutely fascinating.
Outside of dinosaurs, I never really bought in to the present theories Archaeologists put forth. Especially about the age of human "civilization." If we, indeed, crossed the Hunter-Gatherer to Agriculture boundary as far back as 25,000 years ago.. how many other civilizations are we missing from history? What if.. what IF they manufactured everything from wood? And put all their records in some kind of paper? A good fire or rotting from age and.. poof. No trace. A cut timber found underground by some farmer centuries later might only be used in his barn, with no thought to where it came from.
Anyway.. Go on..
>tfw I had ancestors that lived in Atlantis
To add to the OP, i'll talk about the Great Sphinx in Egypt.
Geology tells us there has been virtually no heavy rainfalls on Giza for more than 5,000 years; the last period of heavy rains being centered around 10,000 years ago - following ending of Ice Age, possibly linked to a comet/meteorite impact. This is important because the Sphinx has undergone the type of erosion that only occurs from prolonged and extensive rainfall.
Archeologists tell us the sphinx was built in 2500 B.C, which is strange because geology tells us that is completely false. Something to think about.
>>79637161
>A cut timber found underground by some farmer centuries later might only be used in his barn, with no thought to where it came from.
Good example ! Reminds me of the stone from ancient Rome ruins which were used to build cathedral and other structures during the Middle Age.
>>79636577
sois mine, but the great thing about mine, is all you need is 'proof' of one of these things, and it would shatter everything we know. I believe that proof is the underwater cities in the mediterranean. Because they HAVE to have been built when the sea level was hundreds of feet lower. Boom.
And if it could happen there, it could happen anywhere (especially with politically correct ideas that "everyone is equal")
My OP picture is my favorite part. I think that haplogroup X is the sea-jew gene. And the fact that the native americans in northeastern america weren't as intelligent as italians, greeks, or jews, shows the inherent dysgenics that occurred (in terms of IQ) which...
>>79636539
what I mean is that every generation does not necessarily get more intelligent. What I was saying with my theory is that coming out of Neanderthal times, and the ice age, humans would be smarter than today, just simply because the environment would incentivize planning and cunningness.
Now, bare with me here.
In my opinion, the longer a group is within a civilization, the more "robot" or "knowledge based" their thought patterns become. What do I mean? I mean that when you are in a city, instead of surviving harsh winters, hunting, planning for the future, it is more important to have KNOWLEDGE than UNDERSTANDING.
evolution does not work on a purely linear fashion. We are not guaranteed to have higher and higher IQs. It works like the qualities that make you most likely to survive mold the next generations
As humans, we have the innate ability to culturally create these environmental factors. Instead, we are rewarding people who are too dumb to support themselves (welfare) with MORE welfare for having kids. This would be like if during the ice age, women fucked you because you DIDN'T have food storage. If that were the case, europeans would not have gone anywhere with civilization.
Up Next: Neanderthals, Cro-Magnon man, and the case for Euros being a mix of the two.
>>79637524
the sphinx was built before that, just because they say something does not make it true
I even thought we had accepted that the Egyptians inherited the sphinx from the KANGZ that were there before them, not that they were kangs, but there was a civ there before them
>>79637161
The found some old Brit village in a peat bog the other day. which has a 3,000 year old wooden wheel
it's not a 25,000 year old stone pyramid but it's better than what the Africans manged up until people went there a few hundred years ago
>>79629579
Gobekli Tepe is fascinating, its so fucking old. Theres a possiblity it was a temple or a communal house given the ancient debris pits found near it. A fragment of a time all but lost
>>79638156
>just because they say something does not make it true
"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself." - Joseph Goebbels
Thats the thing, they're blatantly spreading disinformation and the masses gobble it up because they know nothing else.
>>79637524
This! Exactly my point. Geology is a harder science than archeology.
>>79637235
I wouldn't put too much stake in it; I myself believe that there were many civilizations before atlantis.
>>79637161
In my past posts I have provided evidence for this very same case.
If a meteor hit tomorrow, what of us would survive? Not much, I'll tell you that much.
>>79638048
Neanderthals. Every person on earth has their DNA, except for the Sub-Saharan African. What does this tell us?
Welllll, some would have you believe that essentially, Neanderthals spanned the entire earth, then one day a small group of sub-saharan africans migrate through the sahara, and they basically BLACK the entire planet.
Now, some people will draw criticism to this, which I welcome.
Modern humans have what, 0%<Me<5% Neanderthal DNA?
>The bonobo (Pan paniscus), which is the close cousin of chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes), differs from humans to the same degree. The DNA difference with gorillas, another of the African apes, is about 1.6%. Most importantly, chimpanzees, bonobos, and humans all show this same amount of difference from gorillas.
So. We share all except for 98.4% DNA with these creatures. The only difference between us is 1.6%. Anyway, say you have the genetic sequence of one of these greater apes, and the genetic sequence of humans, but? big mistake, you only have the 98.4% DNA that is similar
Well, you would not be able to tell the difference.
Essentially what I am saying, is that despite us coming from africa, some people could be indistinguishable from Neanderthals, because contained in their 0%<ME<5% Neanderthal genetic sequence, could potentially be every difference between the two.
Theory that humans have pig ancestors incase anybody wants to know:
http://www.macroevolution.net/human-origins.html#.Upmw19K-18F
WE WUZ PIGZ IN SHIEET
>>79638048
Humans were larger and healthier before agriculture it seems, i think they traded in quality for quantity with agriculture which made humans dumber
Very much enjoying this thread btw
>>79638911
why do you think that is?
As stated before, I believe it's because the people "at the top" seek to make us all breed into one giant underclass race, whom they systematically separate from technology, until they can live as gods on earth.
What's your opinion?
Just a Daily Mail article but you can look into this phenomenon yourself. And yes, they corrected for race in many cases. (maybe not this one)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2730791/Are-STUPID-Britons-people-IQ-decline.html
The fact of the matter is, our IQ is not static. If our environment makes it so stupid people breed (as I said before, like if during the ice age the women only fucked the guy who didn't have food storage or a house, that is what is currently happening to an extent because of welfare incentivization) then we as a whole get dumber and dumber.
As stated before, this is one of my reasons for creating a religion. So that I can bring back incentivizing intelligence. In our modern non-life or death competitive society, if we sit aside and do nothing, more and more brown people will become breeding stock because they are getting promoted to do so by our elites. It is on purpose
Anyway:
Why Neanderthals are the origin of Autism.
>http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm
what do autistic people do? They sit in the basement (cave) for long periods of time, and don't much care for socialization.
Well, Neanderthals during the long ice age had to do the very same. They had to plan extremely well (for winter), they lived in small familial groups of 10-30 (I have an autistic cousin who socializes with my extended family but not much of anyone else)
Autistic tendencies are much much more desirable in northern climates.
whats the opposite of autism? Highly Social, low IQ, bad at planning. (black people)
It probably existed when the black sea re-flooded, killing entire civilizations that lived in its basin. Or maybe when the Mediterranean did.
>>79639153
Thank you
>>79638911
>>79638156
if nothing else I would at least like for people to realize that civilization is much older than we are told. I believe that to be intentional. I would also like for us to explore things that we can learn from the fact that civilization has risen and fallen many times in the past. Governments must in some capacity know these things, so why are we the people uninformed? Let's brainstorm things that we can ensure that our civilization stays alive in some capacity, or at least the knowledge we amassed in these passed 5,000 years of writing continues to exist. Also, if you would like, we can talk about ways to ensure that if there was a civilization wide collapse, we europeans could survive and thrive.
I would like people to notice that the environmental factors that initially made it so only the smart survived are gone, and have been (this is my opinion) purposefully replaced with ones that promote a lack of intelligence and ability to plan (so, a smaller prefrontal cortex essentially, which is both known as "one of the seats of the soul," "the planning and judgement center," and "where the Will resides."
Perhaps we can discuss ways for us to circumvent this new artificial environment that is tailor-made to dumb us down. Billions of years of evolution have led us to this point; where we now have the ability to manipulate environmental factors involved in our own evolution, to make ourselves smarter and smarter, yet we neglect to do so, and instead hand the reins over to basically foreign elements that have our enslavement in mind.
I will go back to discussing archeology, but maybe we can talk about that as well.
Again, required viewing for this class is this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHwKmHfdo8 if you would like to know more. I highly recommend it.
Next I will be discussing what do the Incan heads mean about our ancient civilizations? Plus bonus Phoenicians
>>79639843
I believe that is a very well thought out theory, i'm inclined to agree with you.
It explains why people like Soros push the experiment of multiculturalism so heavily, it would be most successful in creating a true goyim underclass that the globalists and zionists would be able to rule over with ease.
Your posts are blowing my mind btw, keep on my man, i'll look into those links you posted in a bit.
>>79628405
>Did Atlantis exists
Yes, that's where Germanic people and the Trojans came from
The earth is only about 6000 years old, faggots
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3CzFcPkop84
>>79640947
Let's look at how unbelievably obtuse "The Eternal Archeologist" really is.
I understand this source is not the best source, but please, if you want to, look into this yourself, because it is well known, and I have been posting for a while now and don't feel like finding the "most reputable" sources
in reality, the very nature of archeology is that the most profound discoveries are never going to be mainstream until they have made the rounds on lesser sources anyway.
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/did-ancient-egyptians-trade-nicotine-and-cocaine-new-world-001025
This article is about trace amounts of Nicotine in the form of Tobacco and Cocaine in the form of Coca leaves was discovered within the tomb of an egyptian pharaoh.
wow! you say. This is clear evidence then that the pharaoh traded with mayans, and even more so, that the Mayans had a trade empire within the americas from where Tobacco was grown down to where Coca Plants were grown!
well, you would be wrong
because what an archeologist would tell you is: nothing. They wouldn't tell you anything about this. Why? because they claim that since this discovery is so unbelievable (I know; egyptians having ships large enough to carry some men on a month long journey!? impossible! How could the ever do that?) that the scientific evidence must be because of contamination
Yes, the archeologist will tell you that the evidence of cocaine and tobacco was because the lab guys had just gotten finished snorting lines off of their microscope and smoking cigarettes in the lab.
this is, of course, because in their own theories the vikings were the first old worlders to make it to americas
OH! yea that's another example. Guess what? the history books in schools STILL say that Christopher Columbus discovered America. Even though it is literally proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that them old viking sagas were actually true; it doesn't matter.
>>79640947
Whats that a pic of?
>>79639843
I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to call introvert behavior full blown autism.
This is off topic, but I am very curious and you seem to be very knowledgeable albeit unorthodox to your audience: What's your opinion on the origin of Albanians, seeing how haplogroup X, Albania is there.
You don't have to answer if you don't care/know.
>>79642047
>history books in schools STILL say that Christopher Columbus discovered America.
Yeah, books still say the universe came into existens by a big explosion of nothing and everybody believes it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5322894.stm
>>79641389
This is not the thread to discuss this in, but I feel that we must take an active approach to counteract this imbalance. I believe that we can persevere through this and make sure we maintain our sovereignty as a peoples. but again, we must utilize the agency we have to do so before it's too late. It does not take many generations of the smartest people refusing to breed and the dumbest people breeding the most to make a sub-par underclass.
You can email me at TheDataPagan @ gmail if you want (anyone can; it's my throwaway account) and we can discuss in a group how to do this. In my opinion the only hope is a new religion.
Back to the phoenicians.
>Phoenicia was an ancient Semitic thalassocratic civilization situated on the western, coastal part of the Fertile Crescent and centred on the coastline of what is now Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, and Syria, though some colonies reached the Western Mediterranean and even the Atlantic Ocean. It was an enterprising sea-based civilisation and spread across the Mediterranean from 1500 BC to 300 BC.
>A thalassocracy, meaning "to rule", giving θαλασσοkρατία (thalassokratia), "rule of the sea") is a state with primarily maritime realms—an empire at sea (such as the Phoenician network of merchant cities) or a sea-borne empire.
http://ageofex.marinersmuseum.org/index.php?type=shiptype&id=14
>A broad, oar-like blade, used as a rudder, was attached on the port (left) side of the ship near the stern. Also near the stern was a quarterdeck where supplies were stored, the crew was sheltered and cooking was done. The crew was usually no more than 20 men including the captain-owner and pilot.
more in the next post
>>79642579
it had to come from something
best just leave it as the big bang because if you get past that you'd need another beginning and another and another.......
>>79642904
Really great posts, very fascinating. What do you suggest we do though, go live in the woods and become hunter gatherers again rather than seek out knowledge?
Please continue OP
>>79642579
exactly. schoolbooks make it seem like the supreme authority coming straight from the ministry of truth.
>>79642139
That, Britain, whom also was nearly a thalassocracy in of itself, is known as Phoenician Purple. It's a kind of Kush. Haha just kidding. It is an ancient dye that made the Phoenicians super rich. I think that it came from a snail
google: Tyrian purple (Latin: purpura), also known as royal purple, imperial purple or imperial dye, is a purple-red dye, which is extracted from sea snails, and which was first produced by the ancient Phoenicians.
So they had the monopoly on basically the color that all the royals wanted. Isn't there a bible story about that? or Maybe some other ancient myth. Where the guy has a cloak from his father that has beautiful dyes and his brothers want it all for themselves?
>>79642561
I've replied to too many posts already so I'll just answer yours and continue on with Phoenicians after. I believe the peoples whom are most similar to the Haplogroup X are pic related. I think that Greeks and Albanians and Sicilians and some italians come from the like.
I mean, basically the stereotype of a good looking greek/ jew/ italian: super pale skin, real dark hair, maybe curly, and perhaps light eyes
We know that blue eyes would be a highly desirable trait in the past (more so than today; the science has taken the spiritual mystic out of it), and we also know that the earth was colder then. So perhaps more people on average had lighter eyes because of these factors
I think Albanians, like all peoples but ESPECIALLY mediterraneans, have within their genes the Phoenician group. That's what I think Haplogroup X essentially is. Phoenicians or proto phoenicians. I have been focusing on them because they are a maritime civilization, much like atlantis, so that I could explore what capabilities they had
see next post for more about albanians
>>79643105
Lol no. We need to take control of society and steer it toward the positive development of the human species.
You seem like a smart lad, I'm curious; tell me about my country and people.
What are the origins and your thoughts on Bulgaria and it's people?
>>79644090
I appreciate the reply. I will be reading.
>>79644090
>>79642561
I think that these groups fell victim to one of the classic follys of civilization. The very folly that we have now. Another thought experiment:
Imagine if our civilization collapsed (or was engineered to collapse). There may survive isolated pockets of really white people a thousand years from now maybe in iceland, maybe some parts of america that were isolated
Europeans may become more swarthy from interbreeding, especially because europeans have nothing to hold onto, while the arabs there have the koran, the jews the torah, etc, so civilization collapses and many more muslims and jews ratin their ability to read and their civilizational structure, while the europeans would most likely slowly become muslims (you have to admit, muslims may have many advantages over europeans, if civilization collapsed right now and europeans refused to immediately convert to christianity)
most would lose the ability to read in a few generations, because in those scenarios those who continue literacy do so because it is the word of god.
later, more of europe would be "we wuz white when we had civilization in 2000's!" and icelanders and others would often dubt them.
I believe this is one of the classic follys of civilizations. The romans (although they were invaded from the north by germanics, regardless, invaded), the greeks, i believe all civilizations that don't have protections from this put in place eventually get genetically replaced by peoples whom never originally built that civilization in the first place.
>>79643105
No, I would suggest that we create an active living religion, that followers must read the holy book at least once in their life, and the holy book has the skeleton of a civilization (of course, us europeans must remain individualized, so the religion would be more of a religion of the self that ties us together with the common intent to achieve self-actualization). Post too long. To be Continued
>>79644090
One of the first stories in the old testament of joseph and his brothers, his father makes a multicoloured coat for him and his brothers are jealous and banishes him to Egypt and he ends up in Egypt as a wealthy advisor to the pharoah who has the great idea of storing food because he can see phrophecies and famine and shit.
Also Phoenicians were sea faring but in they end they lived on the coast do you suggest they sailed far beyond the mediterranean and settled there? They certainly sailed beyond but there's not much evidence they settled.
>>79642904
I'll shoot you an e-mail, i think if we can get enough anons together and discuss this thoroughly we could get to the bottom of something, you are sharing all of this fascinating info and yet you're just one man, imagine if there were 10 people like you, 50, 100..
OP, i am very curious as to your stance on psychedelics, there are theories that suggest psychedelics eaten by our ancestors helped the human brain develop complex thought.
The ancient greek oracles used to drink potions that brought on psychedelic episodes. Psilocybin mushrooms were a integral part of ancient baltic and slavic culture. Shamans in north and south america who trip on peyote, or ayahuasca, etc, etc. Perhaps this is why the government is so against psychs? If they keep the people from doing them they effectively sever the connection we have with our ancestors, thus making us dumber, complacent, etc.
>>79645064
Rome took prime position in the world from Carthage, a much older civilization. Maybe the old is always destined to overtake the new, like China/Russia becoming stronger than the US.
>>79628405
>all have the date of the flood at the EXACT same time. ~11,000 years ago.
hello where are the proofs
>>79644541
I will in a sec, trying to make my case for saving the white race and intelligence for a second
>>79645064
ONLY a religion will be able to tie us together along racial lines, to improve our intelligence over time, and to provide economic protectionism from government programs that seek to divide us. A religion can be eternal, depending on how it is framed.
Christianity was initially shitty in terms of knowledge and discovery, but it adopted a very important aspect of certain religions (coincidentally that jews have as well) and that is the living religion aspect.
Christian and Jews always had a mechanism to interpret their religion and add to it. That is what a religion that would save us would have to be. It would have to be the most basic possible system, that promoted self actualization, that would be able to be understood 1000 years ago, and 1000 years from now. That would be one book. Basically kind of like english constitutionalism. A framework, and then different things are added and taken away actively by the people within the religion over time.
This is what kept Europe as a coherent group, until Christianity basically has been character assassinated by the media.
I am not a christian, but please, try to realize the effectiveness of a religion at holding peoples together, and promoting them as a race.
Take a look at muslims. Islam allows (it kind of suggest to do so actually) for basically inbreeding and incest. As a result, Muslims are the most inbred group there is.
Take Jews. Jewish law and religion is basically that you are supposed to enshrine your life in gold. It also teaches them to be nepotistic. As a result, jewish women sought out jewish men that were money grubbers, and over time, you have a race of sneaky money grubbers through natural selection that has been manipulated by the religion.
When you really think about it, it is undoubtable that a religion can literally sculpt a new race from nothing. next
>>79632244
It's a bag of seeds.
Agriculture = civilization
>>79634674
You know, you're a real interesting guy. Honestly I wish I were able to really get into this, I try to keep up as much as I can with all of history, I mean just yesterday I was looking at ancient continents and this morning at extinct megafauna. I always find ancient civilizations interesting, but I've never heard someone go into such detail like this. Honestly thank you, it's great to see someone with this much of an interest in this as I like to think I do, if there were money in archeology I would take the opportunity
>>79645365
sorry man, I can't provide proofs for everything, you can take my word or look into it. There is sound geological data, anyway, that a meteor hit an ice shelf in canada that melted it rapidly.
>>79645304
this is true. I have been thinking about this a long time. How do we get around this? Again, I look to ethno-religions. Ethno-religions survive nations as viable groups because they don't rely on nations.
>>79645154
thanks, I'll be going to that account sometime today
Psychadelics are useful to a degree for modern man I think, especially because our amount of knowledge is way higher, without any real creative interpretation coming from our own selves, but I don't think continued use is beneficial, I think they are useful for basically breaking preconceptions, and then after that you should go on with your new broken preconceptions to rebuild your psyche actively the best way you can.
Nobody can deny that we have been brainwashed from a young age. I think they help break that. I don't think drugs should ever be used continuously, though, because I believe that the way to enlightenment is one tiny mental footstep at a time, where you are constantly combining new knowledge with your metaphysical understanding of the world. You can't build that inner castle and do any drugs your whole life, even serotonin receptor agonists.
>>79645113
I'm suggesting that Phoenicians had the capabilities to do so.
Also you can look into "the sea peoples" which were essentially hipster phoenicians; they were the phoenicians before phoenicians existed
the romans talk about them
>>79645805
>>79645805
About the religion thing, do you think concepts sort of like the Nietszchian Ubermench and Will To Power would be good for the religion? I think that a similar kind of philosophical "religion" would be good because atheists and people of other religions could follow the belief system amd read the future "holy book", and also because it wouldn't really require "faith" because it doesn't rely on a literal belief in angels and demons and what not
Btw ill shoot you an email I would like to contribute in anyway i can
>>79645805
Alright OP.
This a great thread, /pol/ needs more of these.
>>79646476
What ethno religions survived to today that haven't rapidly changed from their origins? The Jews are the best example of conservation, the orthodox jews and the real hardcore jews that follow all of the teachings set down. However the holy book was written many many years ago and times do change and religion has to change to adapt that, then again self actualization and the like is a fundamental belief that can't really change so I'd agree with you there. Christianity changed rapidly from it's origins however.
Do you really envisage a collapse in civilization in the near future? Surely science can preidct most of these events like a meteor hitting the planet.
>>79645920
thanks bud. It's actually mostly just a side interest of mine. I see myself as having an entrepreneurial spirit and I will most likely attempt to patent some inventions I have in the future and start some companies that I have ideas for.
Even though I told a different anon that "we shouldn't go live in the woods," this is my ultimate goal. Not to live far away from civilization, I would gladly live half an hour away from a city, but just so I have the ability to survive and shield my family from unhampered media influence.
Keep in mind, when /pol/ points out someone saying "europeans have no culture" and we try to rationalize that we do, we essentially are saying that we give the power of culture away to the people who are creating it. And they are creating it with malicious intent.
>>79645805
back to religion.
say there was a religion that said something like "The feet of the most divine are large"
well, given enough time, the people of that religion would eventually become their own ethnicity. They would become their own ethnicity because AT FIRST, they would be outbreeding, they would be breeding with the people with the biggest feet around them
as generations go on, only the people of that religion would have the largest feet, so they would eventually be breeding mostly with people of their own religion
This is the mechanism in which a religion literally creates a new race, over time.
We have the ability to do this, and I am trying to make the case that maybe we should at least make an attempt. People often talk about Christianity reuniting europeans under one ethnoreligion, but christianity isn't our ethno-religion anymore, and plus it doesn't have spiritual incentives to improve our race overtime. Also, europeans don't want to join christianity because it has been character assassinated. Think about the kind of reaction you feel when you read me talking about "we need to make a religion." Is it negative? Do you see religion as something bad?
I think the evidence is strong enough to say for sure that there was certainly an extraterrestrial impact around 11500 years ago.
Considering humans have been anatomically the same for ~200,000 years, it seems very plausible that there would have been other civilizations, possibly quite advanced.
I'm not sure if we will ever find strong evidence of lost civilizations considering the timescale and fragility of technological instruments, but I think it is a highly plausible hypothesis.
>>79646567
YES
>>79647026
also, check this article!
http://www.psypost.org/2015/10/scientists-reduce-belief-in-god-by-shutting-down-the-brains-medial-frontal-cortex-38516
what does it show? it shows the same region of the brain responsible for us having in-group preference (ie no race mixing) is the SAME center responsible for parts of spiritual belief!
literally "godless degenerates" has a place in science!
literally, you're thinking the exact same way I am.
based around will for sure, it makes things spiritual, if will is the force that causes everything, yet it allows for complete freedom. Also if the "holy book" had tools that improved people's lives, then they would be more apt to do it.
I don't really want to outline it all here because it may be too much for some people, I would rather email for people interested in helping or learning more, because it is kind of off topic from this thread and may start flame wars. TheDataPagan @ gmail
I have a plan, though, and we could discuss it. I have what I think the chapters should be to provide the framework for a religion that facilitates our intelligence evolution faster than the general population, and is able to provide safer lifestyles for people in the religion than out of the religion, which would incentivize people to join it.
>>79647351
so anyway, just imagine if we had a religion that did the large feet thing, but instead, it was for intelligence, aesthetics, and strength of will!
This is why many (((new philosophers))) will tell you that will actually doesn't exist! it's an illusion!
no seriously, I have heard this from many philosophers. they all have (((something in common)))
to round it out and bring it back, all these civilizations were lost and few ancient civilizations have survived yawning chasms of time. One of those is Hindus. Religion. Jews. Religion. ONLY people with a book that is required reading for a religion maintain their culture forever.
We could dawn a new age.
>>79628405
>In fact, Greeks, Egyptians, Chinese, and some Native Americans, all have the date of the flood at the EXACT same time. ~11,000 years ago.
[Citation needed]
>>79628860
>According to them, the sphinx is wayyyyy older than we think
No, according to one crackpot who has been thourougly debunked.
>>79629579
>developed: agriculture (to supply their workers), government (to enlist the help of workers, who get their pay in food/ goods from farmers).
No they didn't. Golbeki Tepe was pre-agriculture, pre-state.
>Then one day, they decided to build pyramids, just like the egyptians, chinese, bosnians, north africans, malaysians, indians etc etc all at the same time. Yes they were separated for 42,000 years, but they just all 'decided' to build pyramids at RELATIVELY THE EXACT SAME TIME'
Well, first of all
>Bosnians
Top fucking kek, MUH BOSNIAN PYRAMIDS
But, more importantly, the reason so many cultures built pyramidical structures is because they were an intuitive design that could be made relatively easily, and built to heights greater than any other architectural design. It's like flipping your shit over similarities between Indian and Viking longhouses.
And they were not built at the same time.
>>79647737
i believe they will be found underwater, but the problem is, I don't know how much manipulation is afoot.
Who knows if the smithsonian or other worldwide archeological institutes have their own motivations for manipulating our opinion (I think they do, I think they are often used as branches of letter agencies to manipulate the public)
for example, there is evidence that the smithsonian confiscated and buried in their archives many native american artifacts that would have humanized them too much to the americans settling there, perhaps make them feel uncomfortable
Everything but a truly honest man can be manipulated, with enough power and intent. (it's not a star wars quote I made it but it kind of sounds like one and I found this when I was still on googled hinuism)
>>79635468
Seems like you've just been near too many Christian archaeologists.
>>79647737
Nearly all religions share a story of a cataclysmic flood that nearly wiped out everyone in the past.
The extraterrestrial impact that happened 11500 years ago as you stated did infact cause a massive flood, perhaps we will never find concrete evidence of past civilizations, but it could be possible that our religions and holy texts that we have are the link between our civilization and the ones that preceded us.
>>79633481
Piri Reis map does not depict Ant-fucking-Arctica, glaciers or no, at all.
https://youtu.be/590Jsz5ZQNs?t=4m55s
>>79648530
>for example, there is evidence that the smithsonian confiscated and buried in their archives many native american artifacts that would have humanized them too much to the americans settling there, perhaps make them feel uncomfortable
[Citation needed]
>>79648229
i already debunked what you're saying, you are just cherry picking things and then trying to debunk them with rules-for-radicals like techniques
>>79637524
The stone shows signs of rainfall. Remember, the stone existed before the monument. Just because the monument was build in 2,500 BC does not mean the stone is far older, and was previously exposed to rain. Geology would agree with me.
>>79644090
That girl in the pic looks like she could be my aunt.
t. Albanian diaspora
>>79649126
Apparently she's Chinese tho lol
>>79648567
haha I was saying that archeology started out because christians wanted to prove the bible. So, in the same way that we have a "grand theory of archeology" today, the field itself started with that theory. the grand theory we have now is just the bible being true theory, but cycled back for every finding that absolutely can not be denied to be true
not real science, real science wouldn't have a preconception
>>79648725
hey man, if you need it, go ahead and find it
>>79648674
that's just like, your opinion, man
>>79648651
they actually think it was essentially two impacts. I THINK people are coming to the conclusion lately that it's the "Taurid" meteor cluster right? it's called that because when we can see it it is near the constellation Taurus?
and basically, to my understanding they think that the meteor cluster hit an ice shelf in northern canada, and then came back around on it's next revolution around the sun and hit us again to a lesser extent. I don't know though.
Have you noticed that people here are trying to debunk my information, as if I've stated they are facts?
I'm simply suggesting that there are mountains of evidence showing that the current theory is completely wrong. That doesn't mean my evidence is wrong, nor other evidence is wrong.
The great thing about a civilization existing 20,000 years ago or whatever, is that it changes nothing about more modern civilizations, except maybe some of the cites may be misdated
>>79649126
>>79649390
whatever, It's hard to find a greek looking person who has that skin I was talking about. Like the pale skin, not pink though like some white people, and then dark hair
I mean, how do I google that?
anyway, my point was I think that greeks and balkan guys come from the haplogroup X closely
check out pic related; it's a native american girl. She looks like she has genetic influence from the map I posted in the OP, so I would assume she would be one of the haplogroup X mixes
Approaching word salad levels here.
I get it OP you dont feel comfortable with the "Boring" conventional accepted history so you've branched out into the pseudo history realm. The problem is conventional history has millions of man hours invested in it and you the alt-history movement started in the mid 20th century and was designed to peddle books. It relies on "woah peep this weird shit" yellow journalism
If there was a theoretical lost landmass, and it existed 11k years ago, that would be during the last ice age. During ice ages, water is trapped as ice at the poles, and the sea level is actually lower. This is, for example, how mongols traveled to north america.
So what you want to do is see if there's a model of ice age earth that shows what the coastlines of the continents looked like and see if there was an island that existed back then.
Anyway guys, this has been great, I am going to go anonymous surfing now. I feel that I accomplished what I was looking for in this thread; to at least get some people thinking about our origins as people being completely different than simply monkeys>Neanderthals>BLACKED>egypt/ mayans> europe> rocket to the moon
It is much more varied, rises and falls, struggles, etc.
also, one of the most interesting vids I've watched on the subject of alternative archeological narratives is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHwKmHfdo8
Later on, we got into what we could do with this knowledge, why empires rise and fall, why italians spanish and portugese are WE WUZ WHITES, why that will happen to us soon if we do nothing
we then discussed how probably our only viable option that could last through time is an ethno-religion.
I am working on this religion, I am in preliminary stages, input would be appreciated
TheDataPagan @ gmail dot com
Thanks Guys! Great Thread!
>>79649430
I too have noticed many people trying to debunk you and your info, imo it only goes to show how effective the prussian educational system really is.
It fits in exactly with Aristotle's allegory of The Cave, people go their whole lives observing the "shadows on the wall", and when someone comes around and tells them there is more, they react violently.
Which leads me to another point, those men such as Aristole and Plato, were way, waaaay ahead of their time, OP do you think these men had access to some sort of information that has been now lost? Truly mind-boggling to think about all the knowledge that humanity lost just in the destruction of the Library of Alexandria
>>79648755
>i already debunked what you're saying, you are just cherry picking things and then trying to debunk them with rules-for-radicals like techniques
Then it should be easy for you to repeat your debunkings.
>>79649430
>hey man, if you need it, go ahead and find it
Not an argument
>that's just like, your opinion, man
Not an argument
>/x/ please go
>>79650462
>Which leads me to another point, those men such as Aristole and Plato, were way, waaaay ahead of their time
Plato was a full of shit mystic, Aristotle was a reasonably smart man but all of his insights were just through rationality.
>>79649924
>I can't be bothered to read the thread so it's word salad
OP BTFO my mind and if one of the things he said is true then he's right
Or that Youtube videos pretty good I only watched a bit of it though
>>79650114
A landmass could probably be washed away in 11,000 years, but he said Atlantis isn't even necessarily a yuge lost landmass he just said it's a term for an old civ of course Egyptians 9,000 years later would have slightly embellished tales
>>79628860
See that big chunk of land between India and Australia there? That was Atlantis. Right on the middle of Egypt, China (and surrounding lands) and South America, who were all the guys building pyramids. There are huge cities underwater off the coast of Indonesia and there are documentaries of people diving into them. All the civilizations that popped up afterwards were living in the wreckage of their empire,which is why (for example) the great pyramids in giza are awesome and still standing and the pyramids that came after are piles of shit covered in graffiti about how awesome some dickhead Pharoah was.
>>79650584
>le I'm smarter than Plato memester man
>>79650462
Well I think their knowledge came from hermeticism
This is just a semi modern version; the kybalion, but hey, it's compiled from hermetic wisdom
And yea, people are reacting violently huh? They are so eager to disprove the whole tread that they say Aristotle and Plato were trash hahahahaha
>>79650584
>Plato was full of mystic shit
Full of what mystic shit? Socrates, Plato and Aristotle are literally the fathers of Western philosophy, science and thought, have you ever thought about the idea that perhaps they knew more than you do? Maybe they had access to information that we do not?
>>79628405
bamp
>>79651508
>hermeticism
I've never heard of this before but the image you posted is very interesting, are you able to point me to a book or article that explains this? Or is "the kybalion" the text i should read?
>>79650527
We're so lucky you smarter than Aristotle memesters grace us with your presence
Why are you begging OP to repeat what he said you fuckin Autist? You know everything isn't a logical argument between two individuals right? Are you one of those people who yells at TVs because you're so spectrum'd that you think the news is supposed to be a rationale argument between you and the reporter?
Shitposter a wreck everything, this is why we can't have nice things. Go elsewhere or read what he said pkease, whatever you do stop sliding threads because you think it makes you cool (it's anonymous)
This was one interesting thread.
Would you allow me into your new civilization if I'm sub 100 IQ ?
>>79652108
The kybalion is the text you should read and it's very short. I think the kybalion is the perfect epistemological text, and the will to power is the perfect metaphysics or maybe vice versa
Either way, these philosophies in combination with Anglo-sax constitutional common law and Christian ethics (when they are placed below the will to power) is the perfect toolkit for the European man out of time.
It's crazy how much truth even those 7 principles ring true, isn't it? They go along with modern physics, but they are true in a broader spiritual sense as well.
You can listen to a podcast of the kybalion too
>>79653103
You'd have to email him, I feel like he talked about that but I don't know
He left when all the autists smarter than Plato got here to enlighten us with recycled memes
I have to go eat but this thread is interesting af. Have a bump, OP, and keep dropping truth bombs.
>inb4 fatass Burger
>>79648755
sounds like he schooled your ass and your fucking made up bullshit historicity
>>79630354
you are a fucking nut job and should be commited to an insane asylum
>>79653378
Did you read the thread?
>>79652108
Are you gonna email OP? I'll see you in the group emails if you are
>>79630354
>archeology is NOT a science.
>any field of study that contradicts my fantasy is NOT REAL SCYUNCE
HURR DURR
>>79653545
yep. DataPagan doesnt know fuckall about history, archaeology or geology.
>>79653953
>>79653545
>>>/x/
sorry i made you cry when i called your magical beliefs stupid
>>79653472
t. (((historian)))
>>79653628
Archaeology is not a science you fat burger
They don't know shit and all their important theories are based on assumptions to maintain a false status quo. They have zero evidence, they translate ancient languages wrong, dating techniques are useless etc
I can safely say that %90 of the prehistory they tell us are LIES
t. archaeology student
What's up with people reacting to OP with such hostility? Brushing things off you don't understand as insane is fucking stupid. Give his thoughts a chance.
This thread is better than the memes and muh based Russia bullshit we see everyday.
>>79653138
I've looked into it very surface level but wikipedia is telling me hermeticism originated in the 3rd century A.D, many years after Plato and Aristotle died. Are you suggesting that this hermetic philosophy was known to Plato and Aristotle, but lost at some point only to re-emerge in 300 A.D?
Regardless i will definitely read up on hermeticism and the kybalion, thanks for your insights
>>79654123
why don't you just shitpost somewhere else?
>>79653545
And yes i've already e-mailed OP, i'm excited to discuss these ideas further and help OP flesh out some of his theories.
>>79654348
Yea that's one of the theories, but that theory is because they automatically assume it must be that age because it has information that is similar to what Greeks and Romans had, so it must be a combination of them
It also could be one of the origins of those lines of thought
Hermeticism comes from Hermes, a Greek god of knowledge who was copied from Thoth, an old Egyptian God
A lot of people think Hermes/ Thoth was a real person, canonized into Egyptian religion for his great contributions
We may never know, but hermeticism along with the emeral tablets my this and shit is wayyyy cooooll
>>79654266
Yea most of the 'evidence' is just using the older theories
Watch inb4 people don't believe you are an archeology student and or they shitpost about Turkey.
You as a Turk know firsthand gobekli Tepe huh? How outside influences denied the reality of it, while probably Turks all wanted to believ? Only to find out that it is true? Yet archeologists still don't bring it into their narrative?
>>79654268
It's that old adage; when faced with information contrary to one's beliefs, that person becomes more steadfast in their beliefs
>>79650394
Will you be making more threads like this? Also as a Spaniard, I can tell that we were never white, we are a mixture of very different types of people. whites as in /pol/ white are from Scandinavia
>>79651340
Atlantis is supposed to be the Atlantic Ocean. The clue is in the name nigger
just going to keep bumping until I can't no more
>>79654999
Fascinating shit, i'll definitely look into it further. If the theory you're proposing is correct, that would mean the fathers of western philosophy and science were not Socrates, Plato or Aristotle, it was a man named Hermes.
Which of course begs the question, where did HE learn his stuff? But like you said, we will probably never know.
>/pol/ is literally saying WE WUZ NATIVE AMERICANS N SHIT
>>79654999
Funny news, some european archaeologist smuggled "something" from Göbekli Tepe. No one knows what it is. Just like anglos looting every "unusual" artifact during the excavations of 1910s in egypt. All of these stuff are in vaults now, never to see daylight again.
They are teaching us in school that ancient people were just backwards retards and they didn't know shit. These so called intellectuals know nothing, only text book bullshit written by kikes. I never argue with them, it's completely useless.
It's impossible to study ancient history without esoteric knowledge and wisdom, materialist degenerates will never learn the truth about our history. It's also impossible to translate ancient languages because they have more abstract/mental/spiritual concepts and words for these, while our shallow materialist society has 782131763 words for "fucking".
I believe we had many other civilizations on earth before, also other races as ancients state in their myths. Think about the early egyptian myth. When the egyptian gods arrive at earth for the first time, they encounter a reptilian race ruling the world and they beat this race and claim this clay for themselves.
It's funny how people buy into this boring caveman bullshit and find it "fascinating", while the truth is probably 1000x more mindblowing.
>>79657205
>he doesn't believe genetics
Actually it's more like WE WUZ RECENT COMMON ANCESTOR WHO EXPLORED OCEANS
>>79656691
His name was apparently Thoth. It's really cool though
Eh, Hermes is a lot more how do I say this? Philosophical? Abstract? And you can't really say Plato Socrates and Aristotle are the fathers, there is like hundreds and hundreds of Greek philosophers and the big three flush it out the best
>>79655695
He's gone man. I'm gonna email him
>>79632988
>Thank you guys for standing by and for the support.
>support.
i keked, i'm here because i enjoy this kind of fantasy and non linear shenanigans. Keep it real anon
bamp
>>79639112
Looks like a frenchman
>>79637035
>I think it is also in modern global government's best interest for us to not know that older civilizations existed.
everything was fine until this, listen anon: even if the spooky gov conspiracy is some kind of apassionate thing the plain and sad truth (sustented in the modern history) is that there isn't nothing more to see, just the dumd greed of an economic elite that change his players every three generations. The cons hypotesis are just the mental gymnastics of bored white ppl; where do fit the climate damage, the enviromental crisis, the overpopulation crisis, the famine in your master plan? Is just the result of a non planed development. I know is hard to wake up every day to a non planed, chaotic and savage world, but here we are.
>>79655433
I'm aware, but the Greeks didn't have a perception of the Pacific Ocean. The Atlantic was the ocean that surrounded the entire world.
![gr_sat_aster_santorini[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dMBTiUj.jpg "gr_sat_aster_santorini[1].jpg")
>>79628405
Atlantis is modern Thera/Santorini
That is all. Mystery solved.
>>79645908
Good perspective anon
I hope someone sees this.
This has been a compelling discussion. On the note of needing a text to carry a new great success driven civilization. I think we can take a cue from the ancients. To broaden perspective and and take the burden from one. Of we had some sort of drop box, anons can create stories and teachings. Texts to carry us forward. They can be reviewed and added to our final notes, and ultimately our work will create itself from the pool of literature. As we cast our life into this structure and idea. The foundation for other seekers to build their temple within will be available. And so too in time seekers will turn into teachers building the temples without.
We can truly love forever brothers. Not out of selfishness. No, out of selflessness and a view of a greater civilization for our sons.
>>79645908
Wow that's actually a beautiful yet simple explanation. Amazing!
>>79660225
Whilst it is just cold logic, you don't think that cold logic includes manipulation of information for gain in power?
I don't know, it seemed somewhat plausible, but that's cause I don't do mental gymnastics with conspiracy theories. I try to see everything through different lenses, and one of those lenses is the nature of power. So I don't believe conspiracy theories that don't fit in with the nature of power, and how it works
That's why le aliums conspiracy never works for me, cause it doesn't fit in with the nature of power. In order to have the necessary power to get here, etc, they wouldn't have to manipulate us with shit like ancient aliums guys talk about
But covering up history is COMPLETELY believable. Everybody knows the Christian church did it to keep people in the fold, why wouldn't an organization of banksters even more powerful than the church ever could have dreamt of being not do the same? It would only take a stroke of the pen, and some money from X% of their slave labor lol
I mean, all I'm saying is that when you look at the nature of power as it pertains to central banks, it works like this. Every single bank note you have cost you money. You paid 1/4 of what the notes real value is.
Literally, these Jews get 1/4 of our time. Because we spend our time to get wealth, and we would have 1/4 more wealth without them
Check out this pic guys
>>79628405
The flood was caused by the Younger Dryas impact.
>>79662631
Read and understood.
>>79662631
Bruh, that's accounted for. One main text that is the skeleton text. Then on text that is contributed to as a free and open market of ideas
Basically the skeleton or "holy book" text is like a religious constitution, and the second book is like the ever changing law, but instead, it's the free and open market of stories, philosophy's, poetry, etc that promote our existence and growth through time. It's important to keep that part ever changing. That's one of the reasons the church has failed us, they no longer spiritually benefit us
TheDataPagan @ gmail dot com we could use your input ;)
>>79663251
Please, message the email. We will get things started
>>79663424
Already did m8y :^)
>>79628405
There's a theory that the first people in the Americas were Europeans who came by boat during the ice age. That could possibly explain the presence of halogroup-x and doesn't involve a continent suddenly dissapearing.
Report and sage these /x/-tier threads. /pol/ is for POLITICS you fucking loonies.
>>79662970
So the theme is blue eyes? Was there an importance attributed to eye colour in the past?
Also I hope this e-mail shit works out and we end up with a bunch of people communicating and contributing to this project, really interesting to consider what we could discover
>>79628860
Wasn't 400 feet lower, more like 50
>>79630354
Actually there are ways to date buildings themselves (estimating using the growth of rock varnish, for example)
>>79632244
Why would a "tribe of savages" give a damn about math, logic, etc. hell even today savages piss on modern civilisation and continue to cling to their mud huts. And you sure don't see Africans worshiping the British who brought them countless improvements to their way of life.
Also if you want your evidence to be taken seriously, cite your damn sources. A few pictures of pyramids does not constitute solid evidence.
we wuz
>>79665338
>hell even today savages piss on modern civilisation and continue to cling to their mud huts. And you sure don't see Africans worshiping the British who brought them countless improvements to their way of life.
Look up "Cargo Cult" and you will find out that actually, a "tribe of savages" gives a huge damn about math and shit.
Imo when humans are confronted with something they cannot explain (weather before science existed, miracles, in this case its unexplainable technology), then the base reaction is to worship/revere it in some way.
>>79633214
I believe modern pigs are the descendants of humans who were cursed by the gods.
>>79629579
It's amazing how megalithic structures are the bedrock of civilization as we know it. It's completely sensible that we look on them with such reverence. They were the very first capstones of our way of life as human beings.
>>79666386
One exception does not constitute a rule. You are presenting the claim that "tribes of savages" all around the world all loved this new math and such and thus worshiped those who brought it.
Hunter-gathers and early farmers wouldn't care about maths and logic. It wouldn't improve their harvests or the hunts, it's irrelevant crap without countless other stuff. It would make far more sense for a gradual build-up of technology as a few intelligent freaks decide to screw around when they're not busy until eventually a practical application is developed that others will, over time, adopt.
"IMO" no, we don't care about your opinion, bring evidence, not opinions. The response depends on many scenarios, some savages today would be more likely to kill whitey on sight despite his advanced technology than listen to what he has to say.
>>79630354
Hey anon can you give me any insight on pic related?
>>79628405
What if it was spread by Vikings? What if they were simply outbred?
>>79667309
Optimal architecture shape, this is due to natural laws and mathematics
>>79667437
I was thinking that was the most likely explanation, but would it necessarily dictate 3 doors? I know the pyramid shape is simply the easiest the construct, that makes sense.
>>79639843
>mfw a Neanderthal
>tfw no feel
>>79667701
The jesus one is probably symbolism of the holy trinity
>>79667067
>Hunter-gathers and early farmers wouldn't care about maths and logic
>Implying an early farmer wouldn't care about irrigation and agricultural techniques
>Implying an early hunter using a stone spear wouldn't care about archery, or metallurgy for more effective weapons
Why do you think the fucking native americans traded everything they had for steel knives and shiny beads?
>>79628860
Coasts around northern Spain explain why basques are such an old group.
>>79629579
>My theory: why are there no european pyramids? because europe was under ice.
Hasn't doggerland been proven to have been populated during this time though?
No it didn't, the entire story of Atlantis was a work of fiction blown way out of proportion for hundreds of years.
>>79645304
China and Russia are old as fuck America is like 300 years old
>>79668804
United states of America is 240 years old today (gmt+1), happy 4th of july bro.
But America is older than 300 years old. His point was that history is hard to define, is it just a bunch of rises and falls of empires/civs or is it the ideas that lives on?
The biggest question is probably, how do WE define history.
https://grahamhancock.com/ancient-cataclysm-hancock/
This should be of interest to anyone in this bread. Also look up "pole shift" - Does the icelocked North America and ice-free Siberia in pic related look a bit off to you?
>>79667939
Because the steel tools were superior to their own and there have always been wealthy individuals who want exotic novelties. The native americans weren't just backwards imbeciles, there was trade between them and crude forms of government. Additionally the natives never worshiped the white man
>>79669444
Not necessarily, in order for glaciers to form the temperature has to be low enough and there has to be enough precipitation. Siberia wouldn't get nearly as much as most of North America would and thus the glaciers would expand significantly less.
>>79628405
The story of Atlantis was probably based on the destruction of the Minoan civilization on the island of Crete, which was caused by a volcanic eruption/earthquake/title wave
>>79650394
>we then discussed how probably our only viable option that could last through time is an ethno-religion.
I've thought about this for quite a while OP.
Something like the semitic religions would not work quite right at all.
Shinto would be the closest. A religion that is passed down by ethnicity, with a model look and descriptions of the phenotypical ranges of said people. Imagine if every white child had to carve a white face from stone, and these were lost through time? There would be no doubt if those people were ever ethnically displaced.
A religion that could only be practiced within the native land of said group, just as Shinto is.
If I'm a weeaboo, its from envy of their social structure.
Will this be a mailing list by the way? I'm interesting in seeing in the ideas brought up rather than contributing much, so I would like to see what everyone else is sending you as well.
>>79662970
>But covering up history is COMPLETELY believable. Everybody knows the Christian church did it to keep people in the fold, why wouldn't an organization of banksters even more powerful than the church ever could have dreamt of being not do the same?
in just cold logic, the NMO cons is just shenanigans; take in account the effort and energy the church had to invest in order to wipe out the human history in the dark ages, they need 500+ years just in europe; now imagine the effort to do that world wide, is a enterprise with none to zero return. Whilst welll written your hypotesis lack the factual evidence to support them, even if they start to shape the world since the end of WWII our current state of affairs, aka the overpopulation crisis and the enviromental melt down just talk of their blatany incompetence for manage and allocate money, resources and pollitical will
>>79670257
>the natives never worshiped the white man
Moctezuma II greeted Cortes as a god.
>>79672118
Because the spanish were making alliances with his enemies and he was trying to bring them to support him. Politics, not actual worship.
>>79666386
that beautifull painting leaf, you make my night; also, you have post some of the finnest art i ever seen in this board, can you make a trove with them and post it in mega?
>>79672750
Thank you my Colombian brother, i'm happy someone else appreciates the art i post as much as i do. Switched onto my desktop to get the rest of the paintings, unfortunately I don't have too many left so i'll just post the remainder in the thread and you can save them.
>>79672683
I did not know this, I will look into it though.
>>79671132
It doesn't take much energy, they had to wipe out written records, artifacts are easy
Also it's not wiped out, it's just not openly acknowledged by the ministry of truth. That's not hard to do at all
>>79675283
this x1000.
>>79672118
considered post-conquest spanish propaganda.
>>79675283
>It doesn't take much energy, they had to wipe out written records, artifacts are easy
Your're dismissing the oral tradition, the myths and legends, even the songs the mothers sing to their childrens, the games that said childrens play enter in account. Culture is a virus and the only way to erase it is wiping out entire populations. All this time, in this thread you have been talking about how different cultures converge in the same memes (see memetic theory).
>Also it's not wiped out, it's just not openly acknowledged by the ministry of truth. That's not hard to do at all
you make kek again paganon, your 'evil obscure ministry of truth' can be easiy explained by the cognitive emergence, is just a system trying to perpetuate itself, and as i stated before, that shit change every three generations; the systemic theori explain that.
>>79676771
Considered by whom? Your country uses it as propaganda then:
https://www.inside-mexico.com/the-legend-of-quetzalcoatl-by-chela-orozco/
>>79676559
again, ty leaf art is the only solace we have in the western world, this>>79638911 some how make me shiver, the way the light plays with the water... do you know the name of the artist?
>>79668451
That is correct, the Doggerland was free of glaciation, its northern edge was defined by a huge glacial morraine which marked the boundary of the ice pack.
It was the scandinavia, modern pomerania, the north half of britain, and the north half of ireland all along that axis and passing up through estonia/latvia etc that was covered by the ice.
Much of europe was ice free.
>>79677795
Unfortunately i don't have any artist names, all the photos have been saved from my years of lurking.
>art is the only solace we have in the western world
Ain't that the truth.. It is comforting in a way to know that someone thousands of km away from me feels how i do.
>>79677204
That is a very interesting link, specifically
>The god in human form taught them to cultivate corn seeds, to work with jade, gold and obsidian, how to dye cotton, the art of astronomy, he enriched their writing, promoted the worship of the gods and forbade human sacrifices
That is from their own mythology yet it sounds very similar to what an advanced civilization would teach to a more primitive one.
>>79679223
>It is comforting in a way to know that someone thousands of km away from me feels how i do.
that's the humanity in motion, the only thing that i share with the marxist cultural scum is the notion that the intrinsic value of art is to carry the sense of be human.
>>79680295
I agree completely. I hope you see many beautiful works of art in your lifetime my friend.
>>79682299
>nice digits, here's some politically incorrect comic
have you seen the paganon latelly? it seems that he forsaken us
>>79684775
He left awhile ago, however theres a few of us now in an e-mail group with him to discuss these ideas of his further, if you want to lurk more then just e-mail
TheDataPagan @ gmail dot com
>>79628405
Atlantis was in Spain. Investigate about Adolf Schulten and inform yourself on the most recent discoveries.
>>79633270
If he was an archeologist he would also know they don't test bones, that's paleontologist, archeologists test buildings and tools and compare to the ones already seen or make hypothesis if it's totally new.
Doesn't this entire thread BTFO the concept that global warming can somehow eradicate the human race? The levels of flooding "climate scientists" are calling catastrophic are completely dwarfed by the levels of flooding we saw 11,000 years ago.
>>79628405
You're very interested in this, so I'm sure you've already read it, but I highly recommend you check out "Atlantis: The Antediluvian World". It's even on Librivox for free.
>>79655226
Some of you are, some of you are not (Andalusia)
>>79648651
I doubt they all speak about the same flood, there were many floods that destroyed whole regions. E.g. the Black Sea wasn't always a sea, or the flooding which led to Gulf of Persia and so on.
But we can adherence that most of These floodings happened around the same time, at the end of the glacial period
>>79655226
>inb4 the real native Population in Spain was Protophoenician, Long before indoeuropeans arrived
Well one thing is for damn sure. Thousands of years in the future, archaeologists will know there was a global society thanks to all of our shit.
