>subscribing to any ideology or school of thought
>believing in nothing
That's pretty retarded m8
A group of people who believe in something can easily kill a single person who believes in nothing
>>79609107
>>79609160
believing in nothing is still a belief
Stirner teaches you to grab any opportunity you have, joining and leaving various groups whenever necessary
>>79609107
Stop projecting onto Stirner when you don't understand his beliefs you syrup nigger.
>>79609259
>Stirner
>beliefs
>>79609239
collective action always triumphs over autistic individual action
Subscribing to an ideology doesn't mean you agree 100% with it and can't criticize it when you believe it's going in the wrong way. It's also not a sect, you can leave it whenever you want when you realize your values/beliefs have changed.
Now fearing confrontation so much that you'll change your beliefs whenever convenient is an ideology worse than faggotery because fags actually hold their beliefs high.
>>79609340
nothing wrong as long as you can profit on it
not the ideal outcome but these rarely exist
>>79609467
holding one's beliefs high is hardly a virtue
people get killed for that
>>79609021
Stirner is for 14 years olds.
>>79609468
That's pretty much meaningless from a social perspective
nations need laws, morality, etc to function
>>79609021
>Implying you actually read Stirner
Not being a slave to a certain ideology or idea doesn't mean not believing in anything. It just means understanding the inherent subjectivity of all belief systems.
>>79609535
people also get killed by autistic loner psychopaths
>>79609643
individuals don't, though
>>79609535
Having a belief or ideal or even country to die for is what moves society and a people forward. Some must make sacrifices in order to protect a belief.
>>79609107
Repeat with me:
I am a weak individual, unable to decide the course of my life based on circumstance and need without the guiding hand of a patriarchal figure (as in, father/hard/strict. not as in reee mysoggyne).
done?
Now say: I always need someone to guide me, im unable or unwilling to take responsibility over my existence and life and its outcome.
That said, this is true to 90% of /pol/ considering its affinity to far right. which is a male daddy issues club.
>>79609687
why?
>>79609467
>french intellectuals
>>79609535
It is a virtue though. But being virtuous isn't always positively rewarded when you're surrounded with malignant two faced people who will betray their beliefs whenever convenient.
Treason is often more efficient for self preservation than sticking to your beliefs no matter what but virtue isn't about being efficient
>>79609754
virtue is what I find virtuous and what's virtuous to me is what serves me and myself only
>having strong opinions one way or the other
>not being an elightened moderate
Its like you want to be called an SJW or something.
>>79609680
individuals need nations to advance more efficiently. without centralized entities that facilitate governing and trade, profit doesn't exist in any decent fashion.
you're just degrading the system you rely on, which is very illogical.
>>79609850
moderate attitude stems from middle class morality instead of personal choice
>>79609711
Because that has been done for all of humanity and ever country that has been great has had men shed blood for its greatness. I suppose you won't get this because your a dumb Anarchist Polack.
Stirner was a spook
>>79609910
Sorry, I was just memeing I don't really care.
>>79609930
why would you share blood for something as vague as countries?
>>79609896
I'm degrading it to profit from it, getting at the back of it
>>79609680
individuals are part of a group
if they stop acting while believing in laws, morality, etc society collapses
>>79609659
This
Stirner realized that morality, law, etc were all created by humans. You can't bridge Hume's "is/ought gap."
The only law and order that you can instill in society is what you can preserve with force.
Stirner could never act on any of his desires specifically because there was a government that would kill him if he did.
However if we adopt the autistic ancap model with no government or monopoly on force people like Stirner will be able to do effectively whatever they want
>>79609994
Nothing is vague about a country. Especially one that protects and represents your people. It is clear as the sky is blue.
>>79610087
it does not protect me personally nor does it interest my sole interests, though
it's a vague promise
>>79610133
stop paying taxes then and see what happens
>>79610208
oh so I'm forced to be a part of some group and my money is being extorted from me
hardly a choice now is it
>>79610133
You choose to be an outsider to your own people. Sometimes there are things greater than one individual, whether it's god or a collective people. You need this collective effort if one wishes to achieve great things and there are multiple examples of this throughout history. I would challenge you to find a successful example of what you are advocating.
>>79610264
No it's not a choice
It hasn't been a choice for the last 6000 years since the rise of state societies over non state societies.
>>79609021
>being a stirnerite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-OLTOEp8Cc
>>79610349
may there are such things indeed and I'm glad to take part in anything that brings me profit
>>79610359
then why idealise it? pointless mental gymnastics
>>79610057
Exactly. The issue isn't Stirners ideas of acting in your self interest, the issue is that he seemed to have a narrow view of self interest. But sure , go ahead and try to kill people for their property but don't get upset when nonsociopaths don't want you as part of their community.
>>79610208
I don't and I'm fine. now that being said I'm a complete loser and trade work/time for physical goods as opposed to cash. That's the best part of dual working households and mgtow BS. Everyone is too busy to do basic landscaping or cleaning. So in short I'm a Mexican by trade "Whiteman" by ethnicity.
>>79610419
So you are willing to take advantage of society's gains and advancements, but you do not support the state/society?
>>79610419
Because autistic individualism is not a viable future for society.
>>79610527
the thing is ancaps/individualists do get upset when anyone violates whatever retarded ideals "they" believe in
>>79610536
you get what I mean
If you break the law blatantly enough you have to go to jail/pay a fine.
Even in Mexico where 40% of the population is employed outside of the legal economy they still have prisons and a justice system, albeit a very corrupt one.
>>79610536
I think 40% of Mexico is employed outside the syste
>>79610676
yeah pretty much
>>79610917
good luck enforcing your individual whims on a collective of other people
>>79610985
I don't intend to inform them
>>79610917
Than I do not see the point of your beliefs, or lack thereof. You are useless and garbage.
>>79611069
the point is my own advancement and comfort
stirner is a meme for retards. simplistic and childish as fuck, no wonder it appeals to teenage lolbertarians mad at daddy and school telling them what to do.
>>79609021
>hahahaha look at all these people choosing sides and making decisions, I don't need to do that I'll just not pick a side and call both of them stupid hahahaha
>>79611043
>>79611124
in other words you're doing exactly what I predicted
you're some sociopath being forced to behave by the government and society, but secretly you wish you could fuck people up for fun.
>>79611124
I understand that is all you have said. Without society or the state your own personal comfort and advancement would be impossible. Don't you see that?
>>79611283
you pick the side that grants you the most net profit
>>79611312
sure as long as its fun
>>79611379
Fuck society, kill and rape XD.
>>79610985
What is nap?
What are spooks?
Also that image is moot when the homeowner detonates the tnt under his lawn
>>79611482
it's stupid and brings you too much attention
low profile = god mode
>>79609160
The one believing that form is none other than emptiness would forgive them, 'for they know not what they do'. Ever seen shroomers fight? Madness. Also to the enlightened morality is an abstraction. Technically a cultural institution or social convention iirc, it is not phenomenologically real.
No reason not to skin them. It feels like an apple fell off the tree, nothing special.
>>79609160
>>79609160
>>79611626
NAP=non aggression principle, the god of libertarians
>homeowner detonates the tnt under his lawn
I'm sure that's a libertarian fantasy, but life doesn't usually play out like your animes
>>79609896
>individuals need nations to advance more efficiently. without centralized entities that facilitate governing and trade, profit doesn't exist in any decent fashion.
Profit is enterily seen within the context of the individual. A slave state may well be more productive in output than a free one but theres no reason for a perosn to remain a slave for the sake of this.
>you're just degrading the system you rely on, which is very illogical.
Thats akin to saying you degreade your car by not holding its interest above your own.
>>79611283
ITs more like Treebeards "im on no bodies side because no one is on my side"
>>79609021
Stirner is literally the most autistic philsopher in history. No wonder /pol/ likes him. That dumb fuck couldn't even run a successful MILK BAR. Utter failure at life, just like his friends Marx and Engels.
>>79612130
>Stirner
*tips /lit/dora*
>>79609338
(((Stirner)))
>>79612099
Ah.
Then what the fuck are the spooks thing?
Also who is to say the homeowner doesn't have guns and a large family to use them?
In an anarchy, you generally wouldn't go around shooting people because they might just shoot back
>>79612550
>Then what the fuck are the spooks thing?
Those ideas or concepts which we hold above ourselves and which only have life to the extent we act in accordance to what we perceive their interests to be.
Think of the idea of logic and the person who believes that acting like a spock like autist is how they must act regardless of how they feel out of an obligation to it
>>79609021
>>79609239
>Beliving in "Ego".
How can you tell if your choices are own, that they are not spooks?
>>79612866
>>79612866
Ego is just a bad english translation for the german word Einzige which is closer to unique one, it has nothing to do with the Freudian concepts.
>How can you tell if your choices are own, that they are not spooks?
Ask yourself why you are doing these things. If its out of a duty or loyalty to some higher or sacred principle then chances are its a spook regardless of how individualistic or collectivist it is.
>>79612550
A spook is an incorporeal idea like "morality" or "private property". The idea is that these spooks scare us into acting against purely material interests.
>>79612740
That's basically shitting on the whole concept of loyalty
What a jewish thing to think
>>79609107
Well spooked, my property.
>>79613254
why would you be loyal to anyone but yourself
>>79609021
Not subscribing to an ideology is an ideology.
>Proof me wrong, fgts.
>>79613044
Still it doesn't explain anything. For example if you love someone and you want to her life by sacrificing your own life, so is it really your decision or spook (love) decision? The fact is "ego" is just autism-level spook.
>>79613254
>being faithful to external ideas because you're spooked rather than because it is what YOU choose
>loyal at all
>>79613377
You are either autistic or a sociopath, probably both.
>>79613254
Works both ways. Ideas like "racism" and "bigotry" are spooks if you can prove that either one disadvantages you materially (ie. accommodating races that are more predisposed to crime than others).
Stirner would be like "fuck this shit, I owe no kindness to anyone but those who can directly benefit me".
>>79613254
You are just as spooked as the Jews who are themselves a heavily spooked people. They are haunted by Zionism, the need to be materially successful and the need to be superior in addition to all those other minor ones.
>>79613460
if I find it entertaining to love someone I will as long as I profit from it
sacrificing one's life is hardly a profitable act
>>79613454
>Not subscribing to an ideology is an ideology.
I think the OP was more about making yourself subservient to ideology
>>79609021
>imblying nihilsm isn't anything but a ideological retreat for people who's true ideologies don't work in the real world
>>79613377
>>79613490
>>79613509
This >>79613481
>>79613533
>if I find it entertaining
And what if I told you, entertainment is just another spook?
>>79613663
>Pic related: The philosophy
>>79613737
just because something is abstract =/= spook
>>79613781
The individual a spooko. Hahahhahahha can't btfo me now can u?
>>79613773
You realise that Stiner absolutely BTFO'd atheists and liberals in his book for being just as haunted as those who were supposedly bellow them.
>>79613876
How can you place yourself above yourself?
>>79613951
Easy, I just did. Btfo spookie
>>79609021
>having no morals or principles
>takes moral high ground
>>79613899
He sounds like a teenager
>>79614011
If thats the case then all you have to do if you want to fly is pull hard on your boot straps.
>>79613781
The point is, a men cannot tell if his action are made by himself or if he just following spooks ideas. Stirner's egoism is just another spook that mask higer spooks.
>>79614107
U sound mad kid. U mad?
>>79614031
There being no moral highground or source of higher appeal is his point.
>>79614101
Quite the opposite he cuts through the usual hypocrisy you see in teenagers on both sides of the political spectrum.
Young people tend to make the mistake of viewing the spooks of their parents as illusory only to subsitute new ones of their own whether it be in individualism or collectivism.
>>79614127
if everything is a spook then nothing is also a spoof by laws of implication
![[Ureshii]Dennou_Coil_12_[E832C36E].avi_snapshot_10.27_[2016.06.05_08.24.13].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OqNvS5U.jpg "[Ureshii]Dennou_Coil_12_[E832C36E].avi_snapshot_10.27_[2016.06.05_08.24.13].jpg")
>>79609021
>he says, while subscribing to stirnerian egoism
top kek m8
>>79613899
You right, I remeber when I used to be a libertarian. I thought i was an egoist after reading Ayn Rand, but then I read Stirner book (I wonder who also read here the book, not just memes) and then I become a fully nihilist-egoist. Later I realised "the Ego or "me", "individual" is just another spook, and this whole thing is a autism. A man cannot reject ideas, it's impossible. If you try that you become a spook itself.
>>79614286
An edgy teenager then
>>79614127
>The point is, a men cannot tell if his action are made by himself or if he just following spooks ideas.
You kinda can -if you feel the need to justify any action of yours by appeal to something higher than the individual you are spooked.
Unless you take the whole hyper skepticism route "we could be brains in the jar/ die when we blink" there isnt much issue there/
>Stirner's egoism is just another spook that mask higer spooks.
Stirners life could become a spook but his ideas cant. How do you place yourself above yoruself?
>>79614199
>U sound mad kid. U mad?
Nah I enjoy these discussions a fair bit.
>>79613377
REEEEEEEEEEEE STOP USING THIS THREAD TO SPREAD YOUR RETARDED VIEWS OF INDIVIDUALISM. STOP MAKING THE REST OF US LOOK THIS AUTISTIC.
Not all of us are sociopaths who can't understand any "self interest" other than material wealth. You can accept almost everything Stirner said and still value loyalty, tradition, family/friends, community etc. not by holding them up as some higher authority but by realising their inherent value to both yourself and those you care about. Fuck objective morals if you want, from a purely biological perspective, these things should make you feel good and are good for the individual.
>>79613609
But again, haven't you made yourself subservient to an ideology by insisting that you aren't subservient to an ideology? This whole thing sounds like more untenable continental philosophy, I bet who ever came up with it was German, this almost nihilistic view was pretty popular in the 19th century German philosophy, personally I wish it had stayed there.
>>79614417
>An edgy teenager then
How many edgy teenagers have you encountered who dont enslave themselves to ideas such as being different or seperating themselves from the majority no matter the outcome? Emos and hipsters are more spooked than most.
>>79614377
I think the greatest mistake people have about him is that to despook yourself requires some kind of autistic abandonment of any form of idea or abstract principle which is the opposite of what he is about.
>>79614585
The whole philosophy is useless and trash. Man is inheritly drawn to order and collective society to an extent. Which is why governments exist in the first place.
>>79614585
>But again, haven't you made yourself subservient to an ideology by insisting that you aren't subservient to an ideology?
In the same way that baldness is a hair colour or not riding horses is a hobby.
>his whole thing sounds like more untenable continental philosophy, I bet who ever came up with it was German, this almost nihilistic view was pretty popular in the 19th century German philosophy, personally I wish it had stayed there.
I think you are reading too much into it.
>>79614811
>The whole philosophy is useless and trash. Man is inheritly drawn to order and collective society to an extent. Which is why governments exist in the first place.
The state and collective society are in no way hostile to Stirners philosophy.
>>79614935
Than perhaps I do not understand it. But this spook nonsense doesn't really make much sense to me.
>>79615035
>But this spook nonsense doesn't really make much sense to me.
Don't bow down to ideas and ideologies for the sake of a higher purpose. This is a "spook". Believe in things because you personally think they are good for you and those you care about, and never become a mind-slave to an idea you imposed on yourself.
>>79615035
Try looking at it as "a social construct you hold above yourself".
Think of the woman who longs to be a homemaker and a mother but feels like if she were to do so she would be betraying "femminism" or 'women"
>>79614724
>I think the greatest mistake people have about him is that to despook yourself requires some kind of autistic abandonment of any form of idea or abstract principle which is the opposite of what he is about.
It's not a mistake. I remeber when I thought I was above ideas. "I gave a beggar some money becouse I wanted to do so, not becouse of some other great idea" According to Stirner you can be everything. A noble man who cares about poor people or a scum who kills people as long as it fulfills YOUR desire. The point is Striner doesn't explain what is "ego" or "individual".
Spooked person
>why do you do this
>becouse it's a good thing to do
>how do you know that
>becouse i belive so
Egoist person
>why do you do this
>becouse I want to do this
>how do you know that
>becouse i belive so
>>79614873
That's such a specious and facile analogy. You've made the positive claim that an ideology is a "spook" (whatever that is), but that claim by it's very nature is an ideology and if you approach other ideology with that ideology then you have made yourself subservient to that ideology. Therefore the idea of a spook is itself a spook.
Either you've not understood what you're talking about, not explained it well enough, or the philosophy is trash (in much the same way as logical positivism was trash).
>>79615380
So love of one's country or god himself is a spook?
>>79615499
While I can agree with the example you provided, there are more worthy ideals than flith such as feminism.
>>79615553
I'm with Wittgenstein: it's the same damn thing, just in different words. "People do what they want to do" is tautologically true and utterly meaningless.
>>79615698
Only if you submit to the authority of said love, and put it above criticism and self-interest (both material and spiritual self-interest). If your country betrayed the reasons you love it, you should not keep loving it based on a higher purpose or idea, for example.
>>79609021
>Any opinion someone else shares with you is wrong
This is edgy contrarianism at its finest.
>>79616037
A country could never betray you, only the people in power. If they would betray me or the country's own ideals than that is rather believable.
>>79610057
>all those line breaks
go back to rebbit
please
thanks
Why are anarchists and communists such normies?
>>79615553
>The point is Striner doesn't explain what is "ego" or "individual".
You should probably reread "ownness" and "the owner". Not gonna argue against your position because I agree with you in part (only I think you can differentiate between being a "slave" to an idea or believing in said idea because you personally think it is the best for you), but this is just not true.
>>79615892
So how egoist people are diffrent from spooked people? All I try to say, a man cannot reject ideas, even if he thniks he is above them and he's just using them temporarily, it's still not true.
>>79609021
This actually
>>79614558
hahaha cuck
>>79616213
If this is how you define love for your country then your question was kind of meaningless wouldn't you agree? It's a kind of deist position of believing in something that is nothing. Define what makes you love your country and subject it to the previous definition of "spook".
>>79609021
Go back to /leftypol/ with this shit meme
>>79616694
Fair enuf
>>79609021
this
Just do whatever is best at the time. Ideology led to the fall off nazi germany in the first place.
>>79616368
So how Stirner describe "the only one" in a nutshell. As far as I remeber it was something like "do what you want to do as long it's your idea, not spook's idea". I may be wrong, I've read "The Ego and Its Own" a couple years ago.
>>79616694
why would it be nothing? If you stop thinking about time, you can appreciate what the nation was in the past even after it was changed/destroyed
>>79617532
He said his country could never betray him. This makes the question of why love your country kinda meaningless. It wasn't a statement against nationalism in general.
>>79616960
I'm no expert but I touched on it in earlier comments. Although I would just reread the chapters.
>>79617744
if he loves his country for its history and the people it produced, that cannot betray him.
>>79617968
But then it's an axiomatic position. "I love my country because my country is good". It also doesn't have any relevance to the concept of a spook since for him it's a base assumption. For me this view of love for a country is the textbook definition of a "spook" because I do not hold that axiom.
I see cripplechan's /leftypol/ is now having some fun in normal /pol/
>>79609021
nice to know you're autistic, OP
*GLUG* *SLURP*
>>79622656
UH BRO I HAVE TO INFORM YOU NOW THAT THE PICTURE YOU HAVE POSTED AND WHATEVER OPINION YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD THAT CAUSED YOU TO POST THIS IMAGE IS A SPOOK
YEAH WHAT NOW
Stirners entire lifework was pointless because egoism is already the default mindset of mankind, "spooked" people simply mask their egoism in ideas like morality.
Even ideas that seem totally spooked like patriotism or religion can actually be egoist.
>I'm ok with giving up my life for my country.
>Why?
>Because the idea of me doing that and other people respecting me for it makes me feel good.
>I prefer to tithe and give 10% of my earnings each week to the church.
>Why?
>Because I think a deity will appreciate it and that makes me feel good.
>>79624089
Then in this case, Stirner would have just been analyzing how things are, rather than how they should be. By no means pointless.
>>79622656
DELET THIS
>>79609021
What the hell, I thought the guy in OP's pic was some fucking anime villain.
Moot's law
Any idea, or ideology, discussed on 4chan, will eventually be ridiculed and dismissed as autism
>>79614724
>being spooked
explain to a retard pls
I consider myself as a somewhat less rigid Objectivist who falls somewhere along the line of centralist on the political spectrum.
>>79609021
Like you're doing?
>>79610985
This is one of the problem I have with Stirner. Even if you say that all there is is your ego and everything around you is simply obtaining property, with mostly everything being a spook, it doesn't mean the rest of society living in a spook will see it that way.
You have to fight the spook to dismantle it.
>>79631744
You're dumb, dude.
>>79631455
a person with a spastic disorder and a regular person are actually both the same mentally
you see, free will is a spook, so therefore when the spastic has a spasm he is just relenting to spooks just like when you ask a regular person to pretend to spasm
>>79632056
Intelligence is a spook.
>>79609021
Stirner wants us to be free, but also to be the Owner.
We control ideas, ideas do not control us.
>>79632539
>We control ideas, ideas do not control us.
>the world is controlled by meme.jpeg
