Did PTSD exist in ancient times(middle age warfare, etc.) or is an illness that only affects modern soldiers?
>>79527905
Of course and it was much worse than it is now
They thought warriors were cursed actually
>>79527905
Yes, it was just part of life though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iMllnD3xnk
What a stupid question
>>79527905
It probably existed but people gave 0 fucks about some guy losing his shit since they had real issues to be concerned about.
No. PTSD is a modern invention that allows pussy betas cry like a little bitch about being shot at by third world sand niggers.
Reminder to PTSD fags: get the fuck over it you fucking pussies.
>>79527905
They did but they had deus vult,
Yes
>>>/his/
In my opinion this kind of warfare(pic related) were you had to be in first line of combat with a gun and pretty much expect to be shot was much more traumatic than modern warfare
>>79528048
>game of feminists
>>79528118
Also, it was probably extremely rare since humans were much more accustomed to violence than they are today.
If they had PTSD, then why did so many Crusaders stay and fight in the Holy Land
>>79527905
I think "ptsd" gives them "ptsd."
>>79527905
Of course. It's just that people didn't pay much attention to that shit. Ancient and medieval warfare was brutal as fuck.
>>79527905
I'd imagine ancient warfare being pretty traumatizing.
oh look this fucking thread again
>>79527905
Of course, but it's more common in modern warfare as it's more intense and constant.
Getting shelled for days on end fucks your head up real bad.
>>79528205
PTSD isn't a new thing, just the designation of what it is and it's name.
It has gone under many names, the biggest example being shell shock during WW1.
>>79528343
Dedication
Yeah, it was called alcoholism
>>79527905
In pre-gunpowder warfare you pretty much came from battle unhurt or you died.
Not like today where you can get blown up by an IED and be a ghoul the rest of your life.
So battle was a lot more glorious because the victors that returned returned without any horrific scars of war
There are very old journals mentioning some veterans freaking out over the sound of metal banging
>>79527905
Warriors madness..... sometimes they would after enough battles go progressively more mad....
>>79528048
>written by feminist
>author's was beta male all his life
>author fell in love with multiple different feminists
You can go kill yourself now.
>>79527905
Given how PTSD is less common in combat troops than non-deployed or fobbits, I'd say no. The only thing terrifying about modern warfare is CBRN's, artillery and airstrikes, killing a dude 300 yards out with a rifle is way less stressful than putting a blade in the gap of his ribs
>>79528401
Getting shelled is hardly more intense than several hundred of thesw guys charging at you in full gallop IMO. But war is hell, in every edition.
>>79528343
They had clerics you fuck
>>79528496
This, plus I'd imagine that war was a little bit more structured because of how military tactics were still in their infancy. You aren't having patrols roaming cities, or complex recon movements. You're either fighting in a battle or you're not. There was probably less time spent on the edge, compared to today where soldiers are fighting an unseen enemy.
>>79528205
It's so sad that fellow Americans think like this especially since those soliders have seen combat unlike you I assume?
>>79528613
Getting shelled for weeks is not comparable to facing a cavalry charge which only happens once per battle.
>>79527905
Watch this, OP.
https://youtu.be/FDNyU1TQUXg
>>79528613
War is hell indeed, but modern warfare is unlike anything ever seen before.
Being the victim of a cavalry charge was probably pants-shittingly terrifying, but it can't be compared to the continuous shelling over days, weeks, months that soldiers endured in WW1 and WW2. There's also the complete lack of control. You can fight a cavalry charge, you can stab it, you can bleed it. You cannot fight shelling. You can only take it and hope you don't get hit.
its always been around and they simply ate a weird mushroom to get over it
Ptsd isnt a new thing. People would get "visions" of ghosts and stuff. But here's the two things:
Everyday life was harsher on everyone, with a much higher mortality rate.
Warfare, ironically, wasnt quite as massive in the middle ages; the majority of troops on the losing side would just end up running away, which is easier to do against men or horseback than men with machine guns
>>79527905
>ywn be a teutonic knight
>>79528793
No one was ever shelled for weeks.
Week maybe, and only in some points of war, if we're talking about WW1.
90% of that war, as any war, was boring duties.
>>79528724
They're seen combat against subhumans who have inferior training, equipment, and nutrition, and technology. They're beta pussies. They volunteered for the job, they should have known what they'd be getting in to. If they can't handle it and only went in so they could get government welfare they shouldn't cry like little bitches when a malnourished sandnigger shoots in their direction. No one made them go to war, so suck it up and stop crying about PTSD.
>>79528607
IEDs can be a bitch too. Also not all fronts are equal.
What's interesting is that many sufferers of PTSD only are diagnosed after they've been home for a while, and many vets say they feel more at home in Iraq and Afghanistan than the United States now.
The thing is, back in the old days, communities of men would fight together and return together. You'd probably be with uncles, brothers, fathers etc. This meant that when you returned to the village, you weren't isolated and trying to adjust to civilian life because half the village was exactly like you and if men were battle scarred and war weary then that was the new normal
>>79527988
fpbp
>>79527905
Yes, but the resulting negative behavior were viewed as just a part of life, and not wrong or strange, or if it became a problem people were just treated like any other violent person, not as a "mentally ill veteran" or something.
>>79528205
Imagine being inside this thing when it blows up and spending the rest of the deployment knowing it can happen again at any moment. That hypervigilance becomes impossible to shut off and creates tremendous anxiety.
>>79528809
This
>>79528987
>what is siege
>>79528205
>I don't understand basic human psychology: the post
>>79529021
And in WW1 whole villages got wiped out, so that practice was eliminated.
>>79528863
You're right about second part. It's really a clash of meat and metal.
>>79529048
>Who are you calling "mentally ill"
>>79529000
True American patriot, I see. Respecting people who fight for his country.
Also, those 'beta cucks' are more alpha than (((You))), since they actually participated in a war instead of shitting their chair because they're too lazy to get up and stop shitposting.
>>79528809
Man I really want to like Lindybeige but once or twice an episode he just throws in a personal "well obviously it's like this, I learned it from LARPing" while actually telling you what he's got evidence for.
I recall reading a passage from the memoirs of a Roman General that said "I'll never forget the sight of a Macedonian Phalanx as our horses charged into their lines."
Sounded like a mild case of PTSD to me.
>>79529000
t. 4chan shitposter
>>79529000
>If they can't handle it
How can they know beforehand you dingbat?
I wish you were this cop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-ycSkoYfc
>>79528048
this and battle of the bastards were great battle scenes for a tv show
>>79527905
Shell shock.
>>79529340
I'll never forget the sight of my raw dick going to the cunt of a 6 year old. Do i have ptsd?
>>79527905
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDNyU1TQUXg
>>79529164
The only thing you understand is the biology of niggers
>>79527905
I'm sure that ptsd existed way back then, but obviously they didn't give a shit.
I think warfare back in ww1/ww2 was the worst in terms of gruesomeness. Think about all the artillery shells, and how the soldiers had no idea which shell would hit them. Also D day comes to mind.
>>79529235
Based Poland, bro
>>79529000
>allowing your racism to blind you
>underestimating hardened insurgencies that have been fighting for decades
I'm not saying those fucks are even close to as capable of our soldiers, but they are more than capable to effectively carry out unconventional warfare, which can be a bitch to deal with.
>>79529072
PTSD is kind of wierd. Yes there is anxiety that can cause fucky behavior, but it takes a lot to trigger it. The biggest problem with PTSD is that you accept you can die at any moment. You just stop giving a fuck.
It's hard to live again in the world when you just don't give a fuck. Also, for me stupidity and incompetence send you into a rage. Not a red face screaming rage, just a sudden rage that boils up inside me for a couple of seconds until I shove it back down. That happens probably happens 20 or 30 times a day. The end result is that I hate being around people and I drink a lot.
>>79529450
>>79527905
It existed but it wasn't as bad as it is now.
It only really started to get bad with the advent of artillery. The reason is because what is traumatizing about modern war is not knowing when you are going to die, being in a prolonged state of being on edge.
Before this, you knew you could die in a battle but that was it. You made your peace the night before and went off to the battle. While traumatizing it doesn't compare to the mental damage of walking around some shitty town in Afghanistan day in day out just knowing one day the car next to you is gonna explode,
>>79527905
it existed.
but soldiers in the pre-modern era actually saw a lot less battle time. since logistics mostly consisted of walking. modern soldiers have constant pressure with is more taxing on the human mind.
but i imagine if you participate in one large battle in those times, people dying around you in the most gruesome ways... nobody left that battlefield completely mentally sound.
on the other hand, as a levy (a peasant called/forced to arms) you were fighting among your friends/family/people from the same village.
so when you got back home, you weren't alone with your experience, that might have helped.
also consider this: death was far more entrenched in everyday life: women died in childbirth, men died in war, babies died because god wanted to keep them.. so maybe, since suffering was common, it was less of a shock to see it on the battlefield.
>>79527905
no, PTSD is mostly caused by shitty integration into society once the soldiers get back from duty
they basically think:
"the fuck, this is what my friends die for?? and get depressed"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGZMSmcuiXM
>>79529000
>Imagine you're in some shit hole half the world away
>You and the best friends you've ever had have to walk down this sandy track every single day
>You're about to go on patrol while joking with your mates about the girls back home
>you start your patrol
>your blasting 5 second music clips down your PRR and playing guess the song
>BANG
>the man who helped you bull your boots in training because you where behind on ironing is now missing his entire lower end
>he's screaming in pain
>you can't reach him because of secondary IEDs
>one of the closest lads starts searching and clearing a safe path to your comrade
>30 minutes of screaming and searching later he gets to the casualty
>your wounded friend slightly shifts his weight
>BANG
>your friend is dead
>now the man who went to save him, the man who offered you a bed and a hot meal if you ever happen to be in his neck of the woods is now missing his chest cavity
>it's still 6 minutes until a casevac can make it
>the platoon commander tells you to secure an LZ
>10 minutes later both of your friends are on that helicopter and you will never see them again
>tomorrow you carry on as normal
>>79529859
This guy fucking gets it. Modern war is a 24/7 thing. Ancient war was more about getting to the battle than it was fighting it.
>>79528613
War, war never changes.
>>79529156
Different intensity of shelling.
In any case this thread is dumb as fuck. PTSD always existed, it's just that people paid less attention to such things.
>>79527905
PTSD has been around as long as war has.
>>79529000
t. Patton
Post traumatic stress is a condition that occurs after the event. No time to process in the moment.
Think of a deer "freeze" in the headlights. Which is why most soldiers will have a thousand year stare.
>>79529881
That's not how PTSD works, lad. PTSD is an anxiety issue.
>>79529848
>not knowing when you are going to die
It wasn't really different in past either. Arrow could hit you in the head, even if you were armored you still had weak spots.
Formation might break and someone could stab you from behind.
I mean I understand what you're saying but people today have this really weird idea medieval and ancient warfare was more ''humane''.
It was special kind of hell, considering the nature of weapons, the level of medicine at that time, and life in general.
And not just battles. Disease was biggest killer before WW1. Dying from diarrhea isn't fun you know.
Today soldiers at least have some support, even though new challenges arise.
>>79529952
This is why you should join SOF these days. Yes, their missions are generally more dangerous, but they're also more prepared to handle that heightened level of danger. Plus, the government is also not stupid enough to waste highly trained soldiers on IED patrols or frontal assaults.
>>79528081
He's a stupid summer kid.
>Hurr I bet /pol/ will agree that PTSD is just some made up shit so cry baby soldiers can get free money.
>>79529764
>i get angry 20-30 times a day over minor inconveniences
so what youre a normal fucking person? If that is PTSD i guess everyone i know has it.
There are records of soldiers going mad or having mental issues or sudden physical issues like blindness without being hurt.
But you'd think that there'd be less of it. With the lack of explosions and the limited amount of time in the field.
>>79530527
My cousin pulled burning bodies out of a helicopter. He once had an episode because his wife was cooking ham and it smelled like human.
>>79530594
It was more personal though. Spilling mans guts with your sword or slashing his throat is more intense than shooting someone you don't even see properly.
>>79527905
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4Pd527GN48
There was nothing like this before the Great War.
>>79530091
Does this look like a fucking frozen deer to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Jll9_EiyA
Also it's the thousand yard stare:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand-yard_stare
Just in case it wasn't a typo.
>>79530914
Plot twist: she was cooking an actual human meat
>>79527905
Without a doubt. It wasnt even recognized until WW1, but theres a lot written about people who fought in the civil war becoming drunks, and going crazy ect after the war to the point where the government had to build special facilities for them to live in.
And when you consider how fucking brutal medieval warfare was, especially for some clueless fucks whos only knowledge of war is fairytales of le brave valient hero saving the princess from the dragon. Then this idealistic and chipper kid has to go bash some anglo-saxon dudes head in with a big metal stick in a giant mosh pit of mud, blood and shit to the sounds of a thousand people screaming out in agony and hatred and accompanied with the horrifying sounds of horses swan songs.
>>79527905
To be honest, I think PTSD is what drove the entire suicidal culture of knights in the middle ages.
Im pretty sure watching everyone around you get slaughtered with large knives would mess you up pretty bad
>>79530387
It was different.
You knew that you could die that day, the day of the battle.
Thats the whole point.
>>79527905
There are many more articles like this
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/weapons-and-tactics-change-ptsd-goes-back-millennia-002613
So I guess it existed. But like many pointed out, people were unable/unwillig to identify or cure PTSD, so it was considered to be a curse or insanity. Also, many more soldiers died during the battle while in today's asymetric wars, deaths are less common- you have more wounded. Therefore, there was not much people in the past who survived the battle and suffered from PTSD. Plus, battles in the past were much shorter, guerilla warfare or terror tactics were not common.
>>79531184
You still have a certain level of control, though. And you know where is the danger coming from.
Entire different experience is deadly gas and bombs dropping around you.
>>79527905
it existed probably all the time,
i have strong social anxiety and before i god meds i had flashbacks from situation that stressed me out all the time, i didnt know that this wasnt normal.
i didnt know i had social anxiety either, i just thought im a human failure scared of life.
>>79528496
This is probably true. If you were injured greatly in a battle in the old days you would probably die of infection before you could have the privilege of having PTSD
>>79530929
>It was more personal though. Spilling mans guts with your sword or slashing his throat is more intense than shooting someone you don't even see properly.
Untrue actually.
Saw a study from some university on /his/ showing that people who had killed up close were less likely to suffer negative effects than those that killed at a distance.
When your life is at stake and you defend yourself close up your mind reasons it better.
Drone operators can have higher stress levels than on the ground trigger pullers.
>>79529952
yeah see beta pussies man /s
>>79530929
Well you'd think most men wouldnt actually kill anyone. If you wherent on the front like, you'd be just marching or be sitting in a camp.
And even if there was to be a pitched battle, you'd most likely stand far behind the actual fighting, sourrounded by friends. If you where losing, the line would break and you'd run away unharmed.
Doesnt seem that personal
Or
PTSD is for >faggots right guys?
>>79531532
Interesting, thanks.
Hear that drone operators often get fucked up before.
>>79528333
Becuse no one went mad
>>79528699
+4 heal rolls duh
>>79528205
Kys
>>79528973
kek
>>79529996
did you take valentine with you to far harbor? he has a lot of good exposition there
>>79531061
>An actual human meat
Kek
>>79527905
It has always been around in one form or another. It wasn't as prevalent because
1) Life was harsh enough
2) It was expected to bury that emotion deep down
Now, the problem with modern warfare is that soldiers have to be on high alert whenever they leave the base because there is no defined enemy. That pile of rubbish is just as likely to blow you up as it is not to. That woman on the road is just as likely to snackbar herself as she is just chilling on the road. Being in that environment 24/7 will do a number.
>>79527905
#1 cause for PTSD is Car crashes
>no joke
>>79530002
you sound like an SJW pushing hte goal posts.
>>79527905
Saw a theory somewhere that said modern weapons were the cause of PTSD.
The closer you are to combat- meaning swords and axes- the closer you are to your enemy. When you're up close and personal to your enemy and you see he is trying to kill you, you don't feel bad about killing/maiming/defeating him.
However, when you're shooting guns, and launching missiles, you're largely removed from that personal experience of someone in your face trying to kill you.
And this supposedly explains why drone pilots experience ptsd much more frequently than, say a rifleman who can see his enemy shooting back at him.
Sounds interesting, dunno if true though. There may be something about the surge of emotions that happens during hand to hand/ close combat situation that prevents the brain from creating ptsd neural paths. Being removed from that intense physical exertion and overwhelming emotions of hand to hand combat may lead to the brain forming neural pathways that lead to ptsd. I think that i also saw taking LSD prevents/cures PTSD in soldiers returning home.
>>79531128
>
>To be honest, I think PTSD is what drove the entire suicidal culture of knights in the middle ages.
I'd be very curious to see if that actually has any merit.
no shit.
LindyBeige covers this quite nicely. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDNyU1TQUXg
>>79528205
Constant, time-unknown guerilla fighting is more likely to cause ptsd
Ancient soldiers did not get as much ptsd because warfare often had defined times, expected encounters, even thought the actual combat was more disturbing than today's.
When you always feeling like you are in danger for months at a time, your brain chemistry changes. That's why modern warfare against guerilla fighters causes ptsd
>>79527905
professional soldiers never tended to live too long until about 100-200 years ago so they couldn't really tell about it
>>79533770
FYI, riflemen rarely see the person they're fighting nowadays. It's not like CS, if you see them they're a tiny pin on the horizon.
Otherwise everything else you said makes a lot of sense
>>79528205
>grrrr look at me guys I'm so masculine
>>79528285
I honestly don't know how they held rank.
>>79528343
People with panic disorder as a result of war tend to settle into whatever routine caused the panic in the first place.
>ITT: Myths and Misinformation
>>79528496
What? If anything, gunpowder turned war into more of an "all or nothing" fight.
In melee combat you're very likely to be cut or maimed even if you're winning.
There's a saying that goes somewhat like this:
The loser of a knife fight dies in the street, the winner in the ambulance
>>79533770
Don't know what you're on about
nothing feels as good as firing a Carl Gustav
>>79528205
Kek. I got you anon.
>>79527905
It has existed since the beginning of time, but under different names
E.g, being a milk-drinking coward.
Nobody knew what it actually was, they just thought people with it were cowards and deserters who were scared of fighting.
native americans returning from battle suffered from PTSD. Its not a new thing.
>>79535328
This is actually bullshit. Even a 4x scope makes it evident that you are killing a person at 600m. Generally a rifleman would not be engaging at targets over 300m away anyway.
Pussy
That
Should
Die
>>79527905
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30957719
>Evidence of post-traumatic stress disorder can be traced back to 1300BC - much earlier than previously thought - say researchers.
>The team at Anglia Ruskin University analysed translations from ancient Iraq or Mesopotamia.
>Accounts of soldiers being visited by "ghosts they faced in battle" fitted with a modern diagnosis of PTSD.
>>79529952
Fuck...
>>79529417
>Complimenting GoT on 4chan
Blasphemy
>>79529952
yes, but
>you get to shoot people, unpunished!
win in my book
in my opinion I feel like PTSD is a mixture of repressed emotions due to either being killed or killing someone, hence why they usually have random fits of rage or zone out completely deep in their thoughts replaying the incident in their mind.
Imagine: you're almost killed on the battlefield and comrades around you are dying, you probably freeze up and fail to do your job of protecting your battlebuddy and you're seconds away from death. by the grace of god you leave the situation either maimed or unscathed but you still failed your objective; yet you come back and hailed a hero...
imagine what that would do someone's physche, knowing deep down that you have failed in the heat of combat; something you've trained the past years for and hyped yourself up for, yet your mind prevented you from going through with it. with that comes a inner demon of constantly trying to find out if what you did was right or wrong. hearing thingd that can send you back to the battlefield (fireworks, gunfire) can trigger these repressed emotions.
I feel like knights who've failed back in the day who've witnessed their armies slaughtered lived the rest of their lives a shell of what they were; because they failed their objective in life and know that no matter what, they are a failure.
if someone has "PTSD" from killing someone, that's just guilt and depression overtaking their brain.
>>79527905
You'll find out if it exists after your people are sent back where they came from and put to work building the wall.
>>79528613
Concussion from hundreds of shell explosions over time can cause tons of minor injuries all over the brain. So while medieval warfare was probably more traumatizing psychologically, there is a physical component to the damage as well.
>>79528205
I guess we are alone on here anon. I agree with you though.
>>79527905
Soldier PTSD is what happens when someone distances himself from what he is doing, or he hasn't fully comprehended what he is supposed to do.
If you lie to yourself that you are killing for the greater good, the guilt will come back to eat you up sooner or later.
If you are not fully ackowledging that you are terminating lifes, the guilt will come back to you subconciously.
But if you acknowledge that you are ending lifes of people just like you and making their families suffer, you have nothing to fear because you are honest to yourself.
In other words, PTSD is the result of recruiting people who are not mentally strong enough to kill.
>>79538056
oh, i forgot to speak about passive PTSD, the triggering of war memories under stressful situations.
it's called being a pussy.
>>79533770
>>79535328
From what I've heard the main issue with drone pilots and PTSD is less the fact that they get a better view of their target than the fact that they usually observe their targets for an extended period before actually pulling the trigger.
Drone pilots often have to sit there and watch their target for hours before they get the green light to blow them up, since they have to make sure they have the right target, analyze collateral damage, get approval for a strike from command, etc. In the meantime, you're basically watching whoever who you have to kill just go about his business unawares, watch him scratch his balls or eat his lunch or whatever, it humanizes your enemy. There's a similar phenomena with snipers as well, I believe. I would think that this combined with the fact that you're at a control station maybe hundred of miles away in no danger yourself can really fuck with a pilot's head.
On Killing by Dave Grossman is a great look at the psychology of this kind of thing if anyone's interested.
>>79527905
Never go full retard dude.
>>79527905
Real ptsd yes. Not "twitter gave me ptsd"
>>79527905
Yeah it was called "cowardice"
Too bad whites don't have the balls to say it anymore.
>>79529235
>since they actually participated in a war
Bit of a stretch eh m8?
>>79529952
>This is what we volunteered for
Seems like a bunch of dumb cunts if you ask me, and for what? Furthering the agenda of people like the Clintons?
Being a soldier would be honorable if there were honorable things to soldier against.
>>79528401
My grandfather was in the Battle of the Bulge and remembered trees exploding constantly all around him. He hated snow.
>>79527905
There's a theory essentially everyone developed ptsd at some point up until relatively recent times and it is one of the reasons people in the pased seemed a lot more brutal/weird to us.
Why did not one get PTSD from WW2 but everyone got PTSD from Vietnam?
>>79529164
>sweden yes, the post
>>79528205
>>79537624
i'm with you
>>79527905
The tenor of living has become much less than it used to be. Meaning, if you didn't farm, soldier, or clergy, you just starved to death. Unless you were aristocracy of course. But more peasants never had a shot in hell of that.
>>79539725
WW2 had a uniformed enemy that you were for the most part fighting or not fighting.
Vietnam was the months and months of on-edge jungle crawling where your next step could be in a punji trap
>>79528712
>guards didn't exist before gunpowder
Are you retarded?
>>79539725
>Why did not one get PTSD from WW2
m8 i'm pretty sure many civilians got it
>>79527905
>viking berserks were mostly alcoholic
>all they did was literally dismembering people in close combat while under the effect of the most potent drugs available
Damn.
>>79528205
Go back to your pizza box and League of Legends, Mr. Edgy Fatass who guaranteed never leaves the house and is scared to go outside during the bright daylight and cross the street without mommy holding his hand lmao.
>>79530929
Youre acting like the kill is the only thing that determines the severity of ptsd, friendofampai
>>79529000
>They volunteered for the job, they should have known what they'd be getting in to.
A good deal of them only chose it over being starving and homeless.
>>79527905
people didn't live long enough to suffer from ptsd back in the days. they also had bigger problems than people in modern times.
>>79527905
In the old days, young boys were beaten and worked like dogs from the time they were very young.
Because of this, they were naturally ferocious, natural killers.
These days men are raised soft. Throwing a modern 20 year old into a warzone is like throwing a kitten to the hyenas
Also in the old days, men who fought in war came home as heroes.
For wars such as Vietnam or the war in Iraq, there is no national spirit supporting them. There is no heroes welcome, there are no parades. Instead they are derided as evil monsters
>>79527905
Warfare has changed dramatically.
>>79527905
PTSD comes from your brain being in a constant hyper vigilant sate. Like in WW1 you would sit for months in a trench and not know if a shell would land on you any second. In antiquity where battles were decided very quickly, the hyper vigilance would only last a day or two at most. I would say it definitely occurred but it was probably more stressful being in a trench in WW1 or doing day after day of patrols in Vietnam. I had a roommate who had legit PTSD and I feel genuinely bad for him, I have also met 10 or 15 people who claim to have it, including a dude in my class that mentions it at least once every time I see him. Or every time we have a new class with new people he tells a stupid antidote about how he had play a party game and mentioned he killed someone, people like that just do it for attention.
>>79528205
Good goy! Continue to alienate our own fucking soldiers you fat fuck baby boomer!
>>79527905
War... war never changes.
>Though many of these texts have been thoroughly analyzed already, Heeboll-Holm was the first to look between the lines through the lens of modern military psychology. And while it's hard to ever completely understand a culture that was so very different (and far more religious) than our own, Heeboll-Holm found a number of examples that would suggest at least the potential for trauma in medieval knights.
>Among his writings, for example, Charny wrote:
>"In this profession one has to endure heat, hunger and hard work, to sleep little and often to keep watch. And to be exhausted and to sleep uncomfortably on the ground only to be abruptly awakened. And you will be powerless to change the situation. You will often be afraid when you see your enemies coming towards you with lowered lances to run you through and with drawn swords to cut you down. Bolts and arrows come at you and you do not know how best to protect yourself. You see people killing each other, fleeing, dying and being taken prisoner and you see the bodies of your dead friends lying before you. But your horse is not dead, and by its vigorous speed you can escape in dishonour. But if you stay, you will win eternal honour. Is he not a great martyr, who puts himself to such work?"
http://www.seeker.com/medieval-knights-may-have-had-ptsd-1765567422.html
>>79527905
From what I understand, modern PTSD is the result of enduring too many explosive sounds during battle. Constantly dealing with loud explosions fucks up your nervous system.
>>79528699
underrated
>>79541636
What about seiges and long campaigns?
>>79528343
Religious dedication is probably the most powerful mental "crutch" that exists to allow people to commit acts they never would. In the Crusades (and today's Jihadists) people literally thought they were carrying out Gods will.
>>79527905
It's called CTE, Chronic traumatic encephalopathy. It's caused by long periods of or repeated minor shocks to the brain. This can be from falls, from small strikes to the head, to concussive blasts from ordinance, to fighting in basic training.
It's the same thing that destroys football players. It's been proven that even minor tackles cause CTE, not just concussions and head-to-head impacts. The symptoms are virtually identical.
But we need wars to secure the resources to keep our economies going, and football makes a shitload of money, so i don't see anything changing.
I think that the people who go to war with the thinking and acceptance that death is imminent would be able to escape PTSD. If you can accept that, then there's nothing to worry about. If you don't accept that and are in a constant state of panic, then of course the stress is going to take its toll on your mental health.
I'd be interested to see PTSD statistics for Japanese since I believe this is/was heavily ingrained in their culture.
Dated up to mid 17th century (but replacing even older persona), commedia dell'arte had a character named "Scaramouche". He was a braggard soldier bragging about his war achievements and countless battles he was in - BUT he's fiercely afraid of a cannon shot. People considered it to be damn hilarious.
>>79535488
I'm pretty sure they were promised a worse fate if they ever turned back
>>79528712
>no patrols
>war
Oh looks it's the if you weren't born in the last 100 years you are a worthless stupid human meme
>>79542724
>I think that the people who go to war with the thinking and acceptance that death is imminent would be able to escape PTSD
I thought that too before I joined. You become human during your deployment watching others die.
You will not escape PTSD if you see combat
>>79538440
The abstract point I was trying to make was the flood of chemicals your brain releases in close combat and physical exhaustion could be different in various combat circumstances- and that difference contributes to neural pathways being formed which leads to ptsd.
What's going on when two swordsmen are in a fight to the death is neurologically and physiologically different than when some FC2 on a sub launches a Tomahawk into Syria.
I think that neurological difference is what needs to be looked at to discover what factors "cause" ptsd.
It's doubtful humanizing enemies leads to ptsd- since most of our military already understand that they're taking human lives.
Taken in combination with tests that show LSD is beneficial for PTSD sufferers, something about flooding the brain with serotonin or endogenous dmt may rewrite neural networks and cure ptsd.
>>79542592
Fuckin wow. The gray matter is almost nonexistent.
>>79543069
>he's trying to be reasonable and informed on /pol/
It's a bold move Cotton lets see how it works out for him
>>79527905
I work as a cop and I have never been shot at, but ive been in numerous fist fights. Never had any psychological problems with it. There is big difference between using ur own strengh and skills to dieing just because someone saw you 1sec earlier. What im trying to say is that that PTSD had to exist in ancient times as well but wasnt as common due to the way they fought battles
>inb4 what was archery
>>79528310
Only ther last few season are feminist like.
The early seasons are pretty redpilled on women
>>79543060
Fair enough. I can't comment since I've never experienced it and I'm sure it's unimaginable.
I'm sure plenty of soldiers became familiar with the way of the bottle in medieval times for example, or even before that.
But on the other hand, life was very different back then and people were actually accustomed to death. It's possible dying and killing didn't affect them as dramatically as it does people nowadays. The contrast is huge.
>>79543249
They can barely think and get hyper emotional extremely easy. It basically robs their humanity from them.
>>79527905
Yes. Gilgamesh was haunted by the death of Enkido. There are sources from the Greeks talking about soldiers who were haunted by battle. One man saw his friend die and instantly became blind, others had what we would call flashbacks. They mostly thought this was some supernatural thing tho, not that it was an impact of war.
>>79538302
Not memories, triggers.
When you're conditioned to watch out for minor environmental disturbances while maintaining constant vigilance as a survival mechanism days on end you can end up having adrenaline surges at the smallest things.
>>79540469
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBUGQkpk3RE
>>79541426
> that pic
>>79542592
Only in the most severe of cases. PTSD can stem from purely psychological, partially psychological and physiological or purely physiological changes to neural pathways.
CTE linked PTSD in service personnel is mostly linked (as of now) to blast exposure. This can range from the blast waves from one way door breaching charges or from rolling over an IED. Some guys get it, some guys don't. Even a single blast incident can trigger tissue degradation depending on the individual.
It's another problem that's being researched. From supplier side only a single corporation has been able to produce anything of note in this niche field. The difficulty in identifying CTE and the lack of comprehensive research is hindering understanding of the condition.
For PTSD it's only part of the equation, but compared to most other manifestations of the disorder, more CTE linked cases end in suicide.
>>79530409
SOF guys with ptsd seems to have more problem readjusting to civvie life, going from "hero to zero".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqVFyW8B7dw
>>79531073
>1000s of people screaming all around you.
Chivalry confirmed for 100% historically accurate video game.
>>79544967
Depending on the country of service the type of training that SOF personnel undergo may also be a contributing factor. Supposedly the interrogation resistance portion of our SASR selection program can be somewhat psychologically scarring on candidates.
>>79527905
Yes of course.
Only you can't read much about it, because back then those who went into the shit and fought were conscripted peasants so nobody cared what they felt and nobody had any need to write it down.
All these "brave, fearless knights" (like the one in your pic), who we read about in the poems and shit were safely in the back of the field. If their side lost, they ran away or surrendered, if they won, they charged out and killed some fleeing enemies to feel good. (see English knights in "Braveheart" for illustration)
>>79528048
I'm a bigger fucking feminist hater than 99% of the board. I have had several things in my life directly affected by feminist culture, which almost ruined me. But you fucking basement dwelling right wing numales who hate on GoT for being feminist are sperglevel over 9000.
Do us ALL a favor, regressives and new patriots alike, and KYS. Kek has no use for fucking imbeciles.
>>79540576
My sides
PTSD = LGBT
bunch of pussy-ass faggots spouting buzzwords with no actual meanings
>>79546055
The reason that the Hound was super shocked at that battle was also because he got half his fucking face melted off by his brother when they were children, because HE PICKED UP A TOY HORSE. Seeing all these fucked up adults, and I can't even begin to imagine having to live with the guy that melted your face for 10 more years or so. Like how do you reconcile that. I think that's why the Hound was scared of that battle and the fire.
>>79529164
>psychology
>implying it isn't a tool used by jews to promote and regularize degeneracy
>>79528613
shelling for weeks will cause damage to your systems, your equilibrium will get all fuckered for the rest of your life, migrains and shit. I'd rather be involved in defending against a cavalry charge than to live after having been shelled for a few months of my life
>>79527905
Somewhat, probably has to do with soldiers always having to be on edge 24/7 and while alot of medieval and ancient battlefields has similiar conditions, specifically in sieges, it most certainly wasn't as bad as how it is the last 100 years where everyone is contantly shooting artillery at each other and guerilla tactics became extremely prevalent because the western powers, primarily America, are too pussied out to brutally root guerillas and their supporters out
I heard PTSD is caused more by the amount of time spent in combat versus the experience itself.
>>79527988
>offcourse
>warriors were cursed
>french flag
is this why u guys always surrender , afraid of curses ?
Guts has ptsd
>>79527905
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDNyU1TQUXg
>>79531128
>suicidal culture of knights
dude what?
It was an socio-economic structure. also it was pretty global.
>>79528809
based lindy
>>79531184
Now think of executions, aztec ones for example. do you think the aztec empire suffered from PTSD?
I'm sure there was a kind of PTSD, but people were much much more accustomed to death than we are today.
>>79527988
>it was much worse than it is now
If you have never experienced a heavy artillery barrage you have no right to comment on that subject, frog. Considering your great grandparents probably did between the years 1914 and 1945, I figured you would be a little more understanding of the trails of a soldier in the industrially efficient killing machine that is modern warfare.
>>79527905
>trying to find out whether a psychological illness existed centuries ago based on literary sources from people who (mostly) could't write, didn't express their emotional feelings, and didn't even know what psychology or PTSD was
No, just stop
>>79527905
I think it has a lot to do with "decompression" time. A past-soldier spent months marching to the battlefield, maybe he could hitch a ride on some wagon or maybe take a train/truck the closer you come to WWI. When war was over or you were gravely wounded, it again took you months of train, truck, boat, march, horse etc. to get back to your family.
All this times gives you time to process your experiences and talking to people with similar ones before coming back to your normie life.
An American soldier for example that goes home steps on a plane and with a short pitstop in germany is back home in his house in 24h. Instant sensory overload.
>>79532335
This nigga knows what's up.
>>79529497
>no one replies
This literally answers all your questions.
Was gonna link it myself.
>>79527905
Here's a secret no psychologist will tell you OP.... There's a class of people who ENJOY violence.
Today you would be labeled as mentally ill, or just stick as a adrenaline junkie, but back then commoners knew their place.
You'd have these warriors as your regular fighting team, and the rabble as filler if the War ever got too large.
Today's modern military, 70% don't belong there, and 20% are just sociopathic bastards. It's that 10%, that makes the fight.
>>79527905
it's biological, of course it affected ancient warriors
>>79528205
Dude you are a fucking idiot?
Have you seen death? Like every day for months on end? That was a deployment in a nutshell. Sheer terror of mortar round dopping every day on a shithole FOB surrounded by mountains with Towelheads waiting to come out and kill you.
Fucking hate people like you
I'm not sure if soldiers would develop ptsd, since death and violence were such common parts of daily life back then. PTSD only happens when something occurs that is drastically out of the bounds of previous experiences and worldview.
>>79528205
t. Edgy basement dwelling manchild
>>79530063
That's so not an insult.
>>79546817
Direct combat didn't use to be so lethal before rifles and artillery became a thing. WWI was probably the shittiest experience in terms of difference between peacetime conditions and compared to wartime.
>>79528205
Can't tell if bait or stupid burger
Look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4Pd527GN48
I remember reading somewhere a report about the psychological status of soldiers after WWI, which was perhaps the most horrific conflict ever for individual soldiers on foot. They tested them for various things like depression, body disphoria, ...
Turned out soldiers just out of the war were on the whole about as sane as civilians now.
"Psychological problems" really did rise in the last century as far as tests can prove it.
>>79547899
Muh warrior gene. I remember reading somethimg saying that most people purposely miss their shots in ww1/2 and its only a small % of people who really have the ability to kill. Also in the 90s the US figured out if you just drill the shooting to kill so hard it becomes a reaction, then the kill % skyrockets and you have a bunch of murders who shouldnt ever have been able to do it.
>>79527905
Also the typical soldier prior to the 20th century would only actually battle for a few days in his life.
Many field tests have proved that prepared men are able to sustain a few days of complete horror.
The average US infantryman in WWII served something like 45 days of actual combat (don't remember the number but you should be able to find it). In Vietnam it had doubled. In Iraq it had still more than doubled compared to Vietnam.
>>79548987
How much weight do you think there is to that theory? Just imagine how much higher the rate of casualties would have been if everyone in the world wars shot to kill if it's true.
>>79528205
Articles are pointing to it being several thousand years old, actually.
>>79549146
Why is it doubling? Are they really able to transport troops into battle that much faster than before? Or are we not bothering to rotate men in and out of combat anymore?
>>79535696
Not that fun to do fire and movement/urban combat/trench raids tough, had to make my own carl gustav strap so i can take it off from me piss easy
>>79548902
That's nonsense though, there was massive research done (which later fed into MKULTRA) on basically Manchurianning the shell-shocked back to the front. What you're referencing is the fact that not everyone was affected the same way.
>>79527905
ptsd is not even that horrible to have for yourself. but for your surroundings it is a bit dangerous
>>79548987
Also, in combat, you rarely "snipe." There is no way to be "accurate" with suppressing fire or when you do not clearly see your target. Was this sort of firing counted as "deliberately missing"? If so, the research can be totally dismissed.
>>79549273
If you think about what percentage of the population gets in action the smaller numbers are probably compensated by more hours.
I still have PTSD from the Iraq war, I was part of a sweep team and our greatest fear was that they could hit us from anywhere, that fear never passed.
It's not easy to describe but I can't walk around outside without automatically checking everything around me for nearby hostiles, I also cant meet up with any of my veteran friends without bursting into tears.
I remember killing people pretty welll too, it was easy once the civilized man is trained out of you and you're on the field hoping to shoot something, it's when you go home and you meet your family and you realize you feel more connected to the muslims that you killed on the battlefield than your family that you really lost something on the battlefield.
>>79547973
I've seen two people die in front of my eyes. One from a back stabbing, the other from a gsw to the abdomen. Nothing in the world can prepare you for death or hearing the horrifying screams a human emits in their last moment.
I couldn't imagine war before the 100 years war. When it was sword cutting into flesh, blood everywhere, and those taken as prisoners were tortured more heavily. Hardly anyone can watch an ISIS video today, and back then that was all over a battle field.
>>79527905
Yes it existed, but since e.g. knights/warriors and many guards and footsoldiers were trained and drilled from an early age on, even encouraged to imagine their own death in different ways and killing enemies when laying down at night most of them were not that strongly affected by PTSD.
It existed but usually it was not that worse for them like it was for a normal guy who becomes a soldier at the age of 18 (not prepared from early childhood on) and gets PTSD during a war.
There are some tales or private chronics which tell the stroy of knights who went to pilgrimage, wandering for some time. In almost solitude they dealt with it. Some overcompensated and went from war to war as mercenaries until someone killed them since they did not want to kill themselves.
Of course some never recovered, couldn't fight anymore and were thought to be bewitched, cursed, or forsaken by god/the gods.
Rates of PTSD probably haven't increased significantly but diagnostic tools have improved and a less severe symptoms are now called PTSD.
My Pa came back from WWII and rarely spoke at louder than a mutter for the rest of his life. Nowadays he would have PTSD, back then he was just 'a bit funny from the war'.
>>79547709
There is much more documentation and images and preparation of what is to come then 1000 years ago.
>>79549273
There was criminally inept rotation in the War On Terror, which led directly to fragging and violence outside of combat. Bush realized nobody wanted to fight his illegal war, so he just held on to the unlucky people he was stuck with, extending their service for several years.
>>79547709
Yea but there is help and therapy, and social behaviors we develop for treating people like that. Back in the glory days of Knights and shit they didn't have that. They probably expected you to keep fighting even when you were in complete shock.
>>79549617
thank you for your service anon
>>79549617
I hope you make it through dutch anon. Thanks for being a true /pol/lock fighting for something, at least.
>>79549883
I'd argue that 1000 years ago violence and death was so common in every day life it would eclipse modern media exposure.
>>79550095
Thanks fellow Ameribro, I'm sorry that I can't come back.
>>79528205
XD wow now that's what I call
E D G Y
>>79549617
Sounds tough, man.
I sincerely respect & acknowledge that, what you went through during your service.
Best wishes.
>>79547709
I believe that it is worse to crush or be crushed with an axe or sword to death than to instantly die by taking a bullet to your head or disappear in less than a second by a nuclear bomb
>>79549617
the jews thank you for doing their dirty work
>>79550183
I'm Dutch but American first, I didn't want to stay in America after my service but moved back to my parents in the Netherlands.
>>79550340
Thanks friend.
>>79532335
This
>>79549598
>>79549890
Man that war sounds more and more like a fucking horrid mess the more I hear about it. I was on a deployment (navy) to the Persian Gulf once, and I'll never forget the fucking heat and dust getting everywhere. I can't imagine what it was like to experience war in that hellhole.
>>79547745
This guy is right
>>79542592
This guy is also right
Another big thing that needs to be addressed is that the military breaks you down and builds you back up in training so that you can kill without hesitation or remorse in times of warfare. While your deployed this doesn't really weigh on you; the adreneline and justifications are all around you. But when you get back home you have a lot more time to "think" per se, and you start second guessing yourself.
Second-guessing decisions in combat are probably one of the most grueling factors that happens to soldiers after war. Any war. "Did I really need to kill him?" "If we we were 5 feet over that IED wouldn't have gone off and my buddy would still be here" "That fire mission I called in killed an innocent person as well as insurgents" etc. Thats why alot of vets sign up for numerous tours because they stay in their combat "status" when their overseas and don't have the time to think about what happens when they are constantly under fire, etc.
Modern warfare I would also argue has a good bit more of PTSD due to the instantanous nature of it. IEDs, shells, mortars, all will kill/maim you in less than a second, or your friends.
Can you listen to this without getting PTSD?
https://youtu.be/ldNSMnEeKio
>>79549617
screen shotted it
Stay brave, you fought for your country
Fossil records show that our ancestors' hands and feet were larger, in other words, they were biologically more equipped for the reality of violence. PTSD seems to be a sign of evolution taking mankind in a more pussy direction
>>79528205
Says the guy who didn't fight in a war
>>79550460
Goes without saying.
I wonder about the PTSD of ancient soldiers.
A WW1 German infantryman described hand to hand combat is gritty detail. Something exhausting and brutal.
-That was normal warfare before gunpowder.
-Roman soldiers were recorded in rioting until their general promised them new wars just to acquire rape and loot.
-Roman soldiers were responsible for crucifying the remainder of Spartacus' slave army along the via Apia. Hundreds to THOUSANDS of crucified men.
-Gauls regularly raided each other for rape and loot.
-Germans regularly raided Roman territory.
-A Greek army was led from Greece to India in a single war and ONLY MUTINIED at India.
Bros. Is getting shot at worse than stabbing a guy up close or what? I'm not saying modern soldier are pussies and shit, no way, you can get killed any fucking second, but ancient soldiers lived for war.
>>79549617
thanks for paving the way soldier
>>79550566
I'd like to add the fact that most do not support what we did in the middle east so those soldiers come home and just hear constant hate for what they did. During WW2 everyone was in support so those soldiers came home and thought to themselves that they did the right thing by going. Nowadays soldiers go to war and kill to accomplish nothing while everyone around them echos it causing them to second guess their actions and become traumatized.
>>79547709
I'd much rather get rekt in artillery barrage than get hit by arrow volley or get burning oil poured on me from fortress walls.
>>79550392
The largest emergence of PTSD was WW1 and WW2
Now I want you to find a book that goes into detail about those battles, an autobiography or something. Come back and tell me those people didn't die in some of the most agonizing, nauseating ways imaginable. You could have gotten stuck in a shellhole full of poisonous filthy water full of corpses and drowned in it. Maybe your foot got stuck in the mud at Ypres and you kept sinking for hours until you sucked fucking mud into your lungs. Maybe you screamed continuously, your legs blown from your body, waiting for your comrades who wont dare brave crossing no-man's-land to save you.
>>79547709
Modern warfare is about putting as much distance between you and your enemy and still killing them. It's why the fighting in Syria and Ukraine has lasted so long. They just sit miles from each other firing endlessly hoping to hit something.
In the world wars and middle ages men had to face each other and brutally kill each other. They saw the devastation that came to their enemies and allies, and knew it would eventually come for them. It sounds a lot worse than firing artillery into the sky and hope someone magically dies far away, or walking through a field hoping a shell doesn't land on your face from the sky.
I guess the difference is instant death, getting blown up immediately at any point of time is much harder tomget over than having the enemy charge in front of you
PTSD is for manchildren who like to cry like the little bitches they are to their therapists.
>>79549617
>>79550566
no matter how hard you train or how good your equipement is no matter how organized is your plan or how much you know about your enemy or the terrain
on an individual level not getting shot is just... a question of luck.
