>The EU is democratic
Yes/No?
>>79329225
???
????
No. No you mongoloid. It's explicitly anti-democratic to stop Europe's evil, evil population from doing something like electing another Hitler.
>hold referendum
>don't respect its results
What do you think?
>>79329225
>EU
>democratic
>democratically undemocratic
> falling for the democracy jew
>>79330095
Came here to post this
>>79329225
>>79329225
Yes. Every member gets a vote, therefore it's democratic.
>>79330176
Very funny isn't it?
>>79329225
Nee.
>>79330327
I'm still laughing my ass off over here...
wew
>>79329225
It's a dictatorship run by a small group of people so it looks democratic... But it's not
>>79329225
NO. the people you vote for in EU elections cannot make laws. Only approve/disprove them.
Kind of like our Eerste Kamer.
>>79330590
>disprove
not what I meant to say btu you know hat I mean
All its power stems from the erosion of authority from democratic, sovereign nation states without consent, periodically over a long time so nobody really noticed when it was all gone
No, its not democratic. You don't vote for the individual, you vote for the party when it comes to the EU, parties which can simply reappoint to the slot without by-elections.
No power of impeachment until Lisbon in 2007.
>>79330590
Yeah, it's the same in countries. Government proposes law, parliament approves.
>>79329225
Nope, it hates democracy.
>>79329225
>british referendum happens
>threatens and bullies uk, says it will turn a blind eye to migrants going through the channel tunnel, blocking trade deals etc
>this is somehow democratic
>>79329225
Yes.
Salty nationalists just pretend it's unelected bureaucracy is somehow more unelected than the unelected bureaucracies in their own countries, and conveniently forget that they elect MEP's democratically and that the EU has even introduced direct democratic systems like the European Citizens Initiative;
>http://ec.europa.eu/citizens-initiative/public/welcome
Not that it matters, I don't think even the most optimistic Europhile would give it more than 50/50 odds of surviving the next two decades unless there's radical reform, particularly in immigration, which the current leadership seems unwilling to consider.
I doubt the UK is the last nation to break away.
>>79330946
It is democratic. The majority of the people are in the Continent.
>>79330946
>the channel tunnel
why don't you guys just blow it up already
>>79330946
>Ur not democratic if ur a meany
Jesus fucking Christ.
States are never nice to their rivals, the UK just set itself up as a direct threat to the EU's stability, I can't comprehend the childish world view that would be required to actually expect them to treat us fairly.
>>79330767
But the people have no say when it comes to the people who propose the law. How is that even remotely democratic.
>>79330969
It doesn't really matter how "democratic" the process is (or looks to be), the simple fact is that the EU as a whole fails to properly represent the people from each particular country.
For instance France and Netherlands voted against the constitution but they still ended up being subjected to it. Perhaps you can say it's democratic because the other twenty something countries said "ok", but it doesn't make it less unfair.
EU it's just too damn big and its members are too damn different.
F
>>79329225
Iraq, Egypt, Turkey, Iran, Russia, North Korea, China, Afghanistan, Malaysia, the UK -- these all are real democracies
The EU is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship obviously.
>mfw that's what /polfront/ believes
>>79331306
The people who propose the law are the European Commission. The head of which, is elected by the European Parliament. The Commissioners are appointed by the Head guy (Junker) in cooperation with national governments. The Immigration Commissioner is a Greek former minister. Every country gets something.
>>79330767
And, by a complete and unrelated coincidence, government is formed by a majority in parliament.
>>79331850
So I literally didn't vote for a single member of the supreme legislative body of the European Union. K, seems legit.
>>79331364
I'd say any government representing hundreds of millions is going to let down a lot of them.
Doesn't change the fact it is democratic. An unpopular democracy is still a democracy.
There's plenty of reasons to dislike the EU, 'hurr non-democratic' is just an objectively false but vote-winning talking point used to sway people who haven't actually got a clue about the organisation. You heard it constantly prior to Brexit, swiftly followed by Googling of 'What is EU?'.
For example; Scotland is horribly represented by Westminster, it's a far-left country that hasn't seen a non-centrist left-wing government in decades, it doesn't mean the UK has suddenly become something other than a democratic nation.
>>79331850
Commissioners can't be appointed without being voted by the EU parliament. If they fail even the parliament committee hearing, they are rejected.
>>79332009
It's technically the executive party. Did you vote for George Osbourne?
>>79329225
It's not important.
>>79329225
Yes.
They make you believe what they decide is good because all they want for you is good.
>>79332134
Nope, but a fellow citizen did. I can though however have him removed by office if the people will it, I cannot with a single EU commissioner.
>>79332009
You voted for your member of the EU parliament. Every country has a number of MEPs.
The EU parliament then votes the Commission, including all the Commissioners. The EU parl also has the last word on the budget.
So all the EU officials that have any real power have been elected either directly or by the parliament.
The only one who is not elected is the head of the Council, but that guy doesn't really have much power.
No.
We elect MEPs but they have no power.
They can't make laws and can't disapprove laws, only approve them.
They asked for a trade union, and got a political farse instead.
>>79332009
The supreme legislative body of the UK is the PM and his Cabinet, and you don't get a vote on any of them, the PM is chosen by his party and the Cabinet by him/the party.
The European Commission is elected by the European Parliament, who you can elect MEPs into.
There's zero functional difference.
>>79332183
parliamentarism =/= democracy
>>79332039
It only means that the UK is not as democratic as it should and the EU is just an even bigger clusterfuck.
You're an idiot if you think that the system of representative democracy itself is democratic at all, because it's basically an aristocracy that 100% of the time goes wrong and becomes an oligarchy.
>>79332183
The European parliament can't propose laws. The UK House of Commons can.
>>79332354
Not true. The parliament can amend laws. The Commission or the Council can't ignore the parliament's amendments.
>>79332294
Do you believe that only MPs should become Ministers? That's not the case in many Western countries, dunno about UK. Are they all elected?
Still, it was David Cameron who chose him for this position.
>>79332353
So my MEP's get to vote on Hitler, Mussolini or Franco. Great.
The European Commission are the closest thing to an illuminati we have, they must have been passed off when we btfo their plans
>>79332632
He can only be in this position if he is an Elected Member or parliament and he can be removed at any point by the people.
>>79329225
I think you mean
Yes/Yes
>>79332353
The Council of Europe?
>>79332551
But all the laws of the EU go through the parliament where they are amended. The parliament can pretty much change the law as it wants to.
Also, the parliament has the last vote on two things:
- electing the Commission and all the commissioners
- the EU budget
The Commission can't do shit if the Parliament votes the budget in a way which they don't like.
>>79332359
>They asked for a trade union, and got a political farse instead.
this meme must die
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JelNnIlgCHc
http://www.vernoncoleman.com/howthebritishmedia.htm
http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm
>>79332354
>Parliament has the power to amend or block proposals from the Commission for new EU legislation or changes to existing legislation.
>Through votes in Parliament or Parliamentary Committees, MEPs can also ask the Commission to bring forward proposals for new legislation.
>>79332183
>in 4 cherrypicked ways it is an improvement on the UK parliamentary system
>this means its fundamentally democratic
come on, m8
Democracy is the illusion of power. Basically a dictator you vote for. Pic related
>>79329225
the president of the EU is not chosen by the people.
So, NO!
This is all based on democratic centralism, which was Lenin's ideology for the Soviets btw.
>>79332519
Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.
>>79329225
Well just ask yourself, is it democratic that one person just decided to go through with a trade agreement without asking other members?
>>79332911
Finish your GCSE in history and come back kid.
>>79332551
The European Parliament has control over the Legislative Commission, whilst they can't propose laws directly, the Commission has to listen to them in the same way MEP's have the listen to their constituants.
If you don't think that's democratic, then the USA, UK and pretty much every western democracy isn't democratic by your standards either.
>>79331257
We're allies, that's why.
>>79332880
The Prime Minister of the UK isn't chosen by the people either.
Pretty sure we're still classified as a democracy.
This entire thread is retards unable to differenciate between liberal democracy and absolute direct democracies.
>>79329225
Almost all power is in the hands of unelected bureaucrats. MEPs don't rule the EU, they can't do jackshit but decide what lightbulbs and televisions you can use.
>NO!
>>79332796
No, the Council of the EUropean Union, which is that institution which prepares the EU summits. The guy who is the president of this CEU has no power whatsoever.
Then there is the European Council, which has a collective presidency. Every EU member gets to hold its presidency for a few months. But it's basically a council of ministers. So, it's usually your prime minister who leads this institution. Since he was elected by a parliament, he is appointed by a democratically elected assembly.
>>79333140
The fact you don't recognise the quote would suggest it's you who missed a few classes there.
>>79333311
It's funny that many of those would call you a leftist shill if you advocated for absolute democracy.
>>79330767
>Yeah, it's the same in countries. Government proposes law, parliament approves.
No it fucking isn't. Name me a country where the people that MAKE THE LAWS are NOT voted in.
>>79333200
So are the USA and Britain. Doesn't stop them fucking with us or acting against our interests if it benefits them.
>>79332880
The president of the EU, you mean the president of the Council of the EU? That guy really doesn't do anything, he has no power. He just organises the EU summits, he has no portfolio whatsoever.
>>79330327
ISNT IT FUNNY
The EU is democratic because you get to vote for the people that vote for the guys who select the leaders.
You all just trying to divide the people with your hate, in case you didn't know, that's exactly what the populists want.
>>79333527
I'm talking about the EU Commission. They are the ones with the real power.
>>79333396
The fact you have to quote the most cliché remark in regards to the failures of democracy shows you haven't even started this ride into hell.
>>79333549
>The EU is democratic
then, where are the referendums? Where the popular sovereignty?
>>79331257
>power playing when its in the global interest to calmly negotiate
Both sides are guilty
But the EU is literally risking the collapse of the German banking system whereas the UK is only risking its dead industry.
>>79333143
EU bureaucrats can overrule laws passed in France, Germany, the UK, or elsewhere in the EU when they have an underlying statute. That is not undemocratic.
If they cannot overrule a particular law they don't like because they lack an underlying statute, they threaten financial penalties. In that way, they're a lot like the bureaucrats in Washington DC. That is undemocratic.
>>79333549
The EU is a needless level of bureaucracy that should be destroyed
>>79333623
The EU commission is entirely appointed by the EU parliament by vote. Both its president and its commissioners are voted by the European parliament. There were a few cases when some commissioners were rejected by the parliament, I think. So, it's not all that rosy.
>>79333431
The far-right and the far-left both love the idea of direct democracy because it allows a focused minority or a slim majority to remove or over-rule the rights of the rest of society. It's mob rule with a coat of legitimacy.
But then I'm a disgusting centrist fence-sitter so I'm used to be alternately called a fascist and a leftie cuck.
>>79333811
No referendums for you because Hitler.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663863/Now-Far-Right-demands-Dexit-poll-Deutschland-referendums-banned-HITLER-abused-polls-claimed-Jews-supported-Dachau.html
>>79333311
Completely missed the point it's not that difficult.
Imagine if your House of Lords were the only one that could make laws but the House of commons can approve them. THAT is what the E.U. is.
>>79333459
The Netherlands. Finance minister, who may or may not be elected, decides to bail-out Greece, he drafts a law that allows him to do so, and sends it to Parliament for approval. Doesn't help my case, does it?
>>79333853
Why cant they be elected by the people? Is there an actual reason?
>>79333853
>The EU commission is entirely appointed by the EU parliament by vote
Wrong. It's elected by a majority of the 28 member states governments.
No. The officials the people elect have no say over what laws are passed.
>>79332353
>The EU parliament then votes the Commission,
It isn't, learn how the EU works gypsi
The EU Commission president is recommended by the EU council, the parliament can only say yes or no to that candidate, if it says no the Council has to purpose a new one.
The commissioners are purposed by the different member states, the Commission president decides which one gets which position also has a quasi saying who he wants a commissioner (though not on paper but practice looks different).
The EU parliament does a hearing on this Commission, which the president has set up. But the only thing it can do is decline the whole commission and the only thing that leads to is a reshuffle of the composition of the Commission. aka the vote as often as the commission is passed through.
>>79333820
All bankers must die a horrible death. Capitalism has become a monster with no natural enemy.
>>79329225
Its a dictatorship
The people you vote for cannot legislate and the people who can are hand picked for the position and you cannot disregard what they pass
>>79333904
holy shit, its real
>>79329225
HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHA HAHAHAHAHA HEH HEH OH BOY HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
>>79329225
even appointed politicians are already one layer of disconnection. EU just accumulates them until there is no longer any responsibility
Technically it is but it's so ridden with multilayer voting, appointments and votes of confidence that it might as well not be.
The executive body really isn't elected at all because there's no election held. They're appointed and then given a vote of confidence by the parliament.
>>79333956
What is your point?
>>79333956
>who may or may not be elected,
Well, is he?
In a democracy the elected officials are the ones who propose laws.
In an oligarchy the laws are proposed by an unelected elite. Sometimes with a show parliament like in the EU.
>>79332353
>The EU parliament then votes the Commission
lol you are a fucking idiot
>>79333635
Ok, great. Get back to me if you've got something other than ad hominems about my age/level of education/child-like world view to add to this discussion.
Vague implications that I've yet to take the red pill and will lose my naivety when I do, aren't really something I can discuss without resorting to similar pointless insults.
>>79334349
I don't know why this gypsy can think he can make shit up and not get called out on it.
>>79333989
No they're not.
The candidates are picked after backroom negotiations.
basically "I will support your candidate if you support mine"
Then the EU parliament gets a simple yes/no vote for the entire crew.
If they vote no the whole card house falls down so all the negotiating has to be done over again.
>>79332417
>The European Commission is elected by the European Parliament
Thats completely false in every single way
>>79333904
Hitler came to power by parliamentary means, not by a referendum. After he was in power he rigged all referendums, so what?
>>79334422
He's probably one of the many ''students of EU law'' (=shills) that've been plaguing us lately.
Guys, instead of technicalities, focus on this reality: The current Commissioner on immigration (the hottest European issue) is a meme Greek politician that you haven't even heard of. Doesn't that say it all really?
>>79334402
Not even the Dead Sea is this salty.
>>79329225
Democracy is EU kryptonite. It dissolves the EU on contact.
>>79332353
>thee EU parliament then votes the Commission, including all the Commissioners
STOP RIGHT THERE GYPSY
>>79332648
They don't. What he said wasn't even true. All EU member states seperate governments decide who becomes the President. This ONE person then chooses the other commissioners. The ONLY people with power.
And don't think someone is going to get in not approved by Angela Merkel. She can easily pressure the other governments.
>>79334566
Did you even read the article?
>>79330095
ditto
>>79333143
>the Commission has to listen to them
Hahahahahaha Yeah I'm sure they will listen to them! Otherwise Juncker might not get voted in again! OH WAIT.
>>79334566
So they're still illegal for that very reason.
Might as well ban party politics because Hitler was democratically elected.
>>79334693
I know, I was just trying to appeal to rationality in his reality.
>>79333985
Well it would be very complicated to elect both the parliament and the EU government by vote. Imagine how could a guy run for the president of the commission and lead a campaign throughout the entire Europe. The costs would be huge for anyone to manage an electoral campaign in 28 states. So, like in any parliamentary democracy, the EU government is appointed by vote by the parliament. And it can also be dismissed by the Parliament by a motion of censure.
>>79333989
Not really. Every country proposes their candidates for EU commissioners. THese are politically negotiated, yes. Because you want to make sure your government/commission will be voted. So, as a President of the commission you don't want candidates who will fail the vote.
Read more about the role of the Parliament in relation to the Commission here:
http://europa.eu/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-parliament/index_en.htm
>Supervisory Role
>Democratic scrutiny of all EU institutions
>Electing the Commission President and approving the Commission as a body. Possibility of voting a motion of censure, obliging the Commission to resign
>Granting discharge, i.e. approving the way EU budgets have been spent
>Examining citizens' petitions and setting up inquiries
>Discussing monetary policy with the European Central Bank
>Questioning Commission and Council
Election observations
>>79334757
yes its shit. plebiscites are not outlawed.
no referendum, no democcracy, its this easy.
also AfD is no far right party by any means.
>>79334509
It's not COMPLETELY false.
The parliament basically has veto power.
They can't pick the candidates, but they do cast a vote to install/reject the entire commission.
>>79332830
>>79332552
On paper, sure. Reality is that the commission will keep ramrodding a proposal until it gets what it wants. For example, the Lisbon treaty.
It's a democratic circus.
The EU is a Jewish plot to destroy the white race, also Hitlers was nota bad guy he was trying to save white western society.
>>79329848#
>>79334872
no they are not, basic law says Germans decide by elections and referendums. Its the ruling caste that blocks us from having any referendum.
>>79329225
It is undemocratic simply because it is big government and as such the people are marginalised by it.
The populations of the EU states vote for their MEPs, but they only vote by party, not by name. The party then chooses the MEPs. The very fact that UKIP is the majority for UK representatives shows that the UK never took European voting very seriously, and I doubt any of the other countries do either. They're much more concerned about their own governments and there's a very simple reason for that.
I am 2 steps removed from being able to have one of my concerns raised in the Houses of Parliament. I go to my MP, whose office is literally around the corner from me. If he so chooses, he could bring up my question in Parliament. That's it. That's our democracy.
How do I get a question raised in the EU Parliament? Would anyone care about 1 of 550 million? Even the MEPs represent whole areas of the country rather than individual cities, so even to them I'm a small fish in a big sea.
But still, lets say they bring my concerns to the European Parliament. Do I think that representatives from 27 other countries are going to give a fuck?
The EU is too big. All it needs to be is a trade bloc and the political union could end at a G7-style summit of the leaders of each state. Job done. Maintain peace, maintain free movement, maintain free trade.
The Euro was the beginning of the end though. It was obvious from that point that the goal was a superstate, and a superstate is never good. Even the US maintains some degree of local government with state's rights etc. The brass of the EU doesn't even really want that.
>>79334872
Christ, don't give the Europeans ideas.
>>79335058
This
>>79334942
Yeah but thats not an election in any sense of the word
>>79334478
Sounds to me like a massive bureaucracy set up with the express intent of preserving the power of a few individuals.
>>79333143
Oh fuck off, in the US you need to be a House Rep to propose legislation.
>>79332353
Nigel Farrage has claim a juicy EU salary for 17 years
He was (((elected))) because no one gives a shit about MEPs because we never wanted to be a part of the EUs political side.
>>79333985
>Why cant they be elected by the people? Is there an actual reason?
They want all member states to be represented.
Which is also why they created bullshit commissions after the EU expanded: there have to be 28 (soon 27).
It doesn't matter how many us say "no, the EU is undemocratic", the OP can just claim that we didn't understand the question, that we're answering based on false information, and that (legally speaking) this thread should never have happened in the first place.
Then he start a new thread claiming "after the disaster of the last thread, everyone now agrees that the EU is democratic"
That's #EUdemocracy
>>79335288
>Sounds to me like a massive bureaucracy set up with the express intent of preserving the power of a few individuals.
you don't say
>>79335288
I think it made sense back when the EU had 6 members.
>>79335329
*or a Senator
I think the EU make it up as they go along.
I just don't understand how people defend something so openly corrupt tbqh.
>>79334899
You said the Commission was entirely voted in by the EU parliament. That is categorically untrue.
The EU president chooses each commissioner and the EU president is decided by the majority of the 28 member states GOVERNMENTS. Meaning there is no vote, only the governments decide. All that is necessary is a majority of the 28 member states.
>>79329225
It has two options evidently. Stay or Go.
If you stay, you accept everything weather you like it or not, referendums are worth nothing unless you want to get out. If you go, you're subjected to a terrifying campaign, all of that "integration" where the EU has bought out your entire country traps you, leaving is certain financial ruin for all poorer countries and even italy/spain.
Even our country is suffering from it and we weren't well integrated. Between poverty or servitude you must pick poverty.
If you pick servitude it'll be the last choice you make.
>>79335453
>I think it made sense back when the EU had 6 members.
when it had 6 members it was not a political union in the first place.
>>79333853
Elected is completely the wrong word. They are appointed, and then are voted on as a whole. There is nothing democratic about the process particularly as its never been voted down on
>1 post by this ID
>>79329225
Yes and No.
It's democratic in the sense that it's parliamentary membership are all elected by member states.
It's not democratic in that it's ministers are actually selected because they choose the best qualified person for each position so they know they can do the job they are hired to do, rather than using career politicians to do important jobs.
The corruption/corporate lobbying mostly happens in the parliamentary, democratically elected part of the EU with notable exceptions.
>>79334942
>The parliament basically has veto power.
So does the Eerste Kamer. Who has the real power? Is this really so difficult? Also the voter turnout for the EU parliament is abysmal. One of the reasons could be that they can't do shit.
>>79335523
All the people I have talked to accept this being the last choice.
>>79334025
The Parliament, obviously does not propose candidates. In which country does a parliament propose candidates for a prime minister or ministers? These are political decisions, made by the parties which have a majority in the EU parliament. They decide who will be their candidate for the position of President of the commission. Then follow the political negotiations on individual portfolios.
The parliament conducts hearings of each candidate and can reject them.
For example:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/slovenias-eu-commissioner-alenka-bratusek-rejected-mps-171503710.html
The parliament is not forced to accept anything, it can reject the entire commission, if it wants to. But normally if they have a political majority and the candidates are professional, the commission gets elected. If they have controversial candidates, they may get rejected.
>>79335117
I wouldn't say that, but rather just a good concept executed POORLY.
>>79330095
This
>>79335698
>In which country does a parliament propose candidates for a prime minister or ministers?
In what country are the people that MAKE THE LAWS not elected by vote?
>>79334349
Read here, idiot:
http://europa.eu/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-parliament/index_en.htm
>Electing the Commission President and approving the Commission as a body. Possibility of voting a motion of censure, obliging the Commission to resign
>>79335712
Mostly this but, there is still the jew there somewhere.
>>79329225
It doesn't matter if it's democratic since it doesn't share a common demos
>>79335638
>Who has the real power?
Nobody.
That's one reason the EU is so dysfunctional: there is a complete lack of leadership.
>>79335685
Then they have won
You let them break your national pride down until you are just a generic EU citizen and not a Greek anymore
I will drink to your countries rich history and empty future as "free movement" steals your youth.
>>79335685
Then it's eternal poverty for them. It doesn't look like the EU cares much for you lot. At least the master is kind to most of its slaves, if incompetent. Not Greece though.
If anyone should get out it's them, what have they got left to lose?
So far under Germanys thumb it could lead to eternal debt, but what the hell is staying in going to achieve? Greece is practically a protectorate at this point. I just hope we can strengthen enough to help ex-EU countries.
If Rich counties leave at least it'll lead to possible disbanding as the few that stay can no longer foot the bill.
>>79329225
>NO
>>79329225
It´s not undemocratic. It´s just a mess.
>>79335502
You're either an idiot or a troll. I already linked to official pages of the EU parliament where they clearly state what the procedure is.
It's part of their remit to vote the Commission or to reject it. Not sure if you have reading comprehension problems. Post a link to an official document which support whatever bulshit you're saying.
http://europa.eu/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-parliament/index_en.htm
>Electing the Commission President and approving the Commission as a body. Possibility of voting a motion of censure, obliging the Commission to resign
To be fair, the President is elected by the Party who has the majority. In the future, those parties will be Europe-wide.
>>79335944
Learn to read dipshit.
You said the EU parliament has veto power. I responded with So does the Eerste Kamer but who has the real power?
It was a rhetorical question with the obvious answer being the TWEEDE KAMER because THEY make laws.
>Nobody.
Yes the EU commission does. They are the ones that make laws and are not even elected by a vote.
>>79329225
Meanwhile in the EUvory Tower
Transgender Princess Junker has a Niggermoment and tries to force CETA over us without asking National Parlaments.
http://www.krone.at/Welt/EU_will_bei_CETA_Landesparlamente_uebergehen-Abkommen_mit_Kanada-Story-517418
http://www.krone.at/Welt/CETA_Wuetende_Proteste_gegen_Junckers_Alleingang-Wirbel_um_EU-Diktat-Story-517564
>>79329848
>>79330176
>>79329225
the EU's lack of democracy is important to safeguard the sovereignty of the member states.
a european parlament that would be fully and incontestably democratic could use that legitimation to broden and widen it's competences and authority and hence take away sovereignity from the national parlaments.
the members wouldn't be able to chalenge that as the parlament would express the will of the people and that's the reason why we hat a powerless EU parlament and a powerfull undemocratic commission.
>>79336136
No party has the majority.
You mean either the biggest party, or a majority coalition.
>>79329225
no. if you vote against something they want they either make you revote or slide it in the backdoor
>>79335568
Who the fuck "elects" your government, if not your parliament? They hold a vote on a cabinet and either approve it or reject it. Same as with the EU.
http://www.dailystormer.com/the-genocidal-eu-plot-and-the-jews-behind-it/ https://youtu.be/zsUddHZBz8E
>>79329225
It's an oligarchy. So, no.
>>79335770
In the Netherlands. Your government can initiate laws but you never voted your government.
>>79336321
British ministers have to get elected into parliament in order to qualify.
It's retarded, I know, but Britain is weird like that.
I find it odd that people demand democracy from the EU in areas where they don't give a fuck about democracy back home.
I have no say in what trading terms my government dreams up. But hey, at least they can choose when to have a re-election, then they can field candidates of their choosing, and they can choose which roles they will have in government.
What about all the other organisations we are part of like the UN? Why are we not outraged by them?
>>79336278
all parliaments take away sovereignty away from us, the people.
>>79336429
Even fucking Brazil gets it.
Okay brexit is democratic.
Still Farage and Boris lied about the amount of UK contribution and where the contribution will go after brexit.
Where is it better for the people ?
The world is basically ruled by money and welthiest.
If Ruper Murdoch push for the brexit its not in the interest of the people, nothing is free.
The point is that the people is always screwed anyway.
Learn to live with that.
>>79329225
The commission is unelected.
The commission decides what subjects the assembly votes upon.
This is inherently undemocratic.
How about...
nobody cares, the EU is now going faster down the slippery slope that it was heading down before "brexit"
German fags are scared shitless that they'll lose their jobs if we don't get a trade deal, but the Angler Monkfish has already started threatening that we can't cherry pick and will have to accept free movement of kalashnikovs if we want a free trade deal...yeh OK, keep your trade deal and we'll sit here on our island watching your country go down the pan while we deal with the rest of the civilised world.
>>79336321
>Who the fuck "elects" your government
The people.
Each constituency elects one candidate. The party with the most elected candidates (members of parliament) then forms a government if it has a majority of seats in parliament. If not, it either forms a coalition with another party or attempts to run as a minority government.
>>79336530
>What about all the other organisations we are part of like the UN? Why are we not outraged by them?
Those organizations can't make legally binding laws.
No.
It's very undemocratic and it has a very undemocratic structure as well.
The people that we, the populations, elect for the European Parliament only have limited power! You'd think they would be in charge of everything since they're the ones we elected, right? Nope. That's not how it works. It's a very complicated organization and it needs to be either abolished or reformed completely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dranqFntNgo
>>79335998
the worrying thing is, right wing populism is rising fast over there. That isn't a worry in itself, but what happens when the EU has an army, and a populist government gets in and cuts ties with the EU, when the EU has troops on Greek soil, and Greece owes them this huge debt, which Germany has already profited greatly from?
There's a genuine chance if they wait too far down the line the EU might try to protect its financial, trade and (((democratic))) interests
They weren't too long ago saying they might have to force Greece to accept border guards to patrol against Syrian migrants. I don't believe for a second that the EU wants to stop migrants, they want them there to stop Greeks.
>>79336530
Because the UN, NATO, G7 etc. don't impose laws on their member states.
>>79336677
A Frenchman putting money and security before liberty and freedom, It truly is the end times.
>>79335831
>Electing the Commission President
you are a retard, read how the process actually works.
The Commission president candidate is determined by the EU council, the parliament can only say yes or no, meaning who will be candidate is done behind closed doors. Not a single "pleb" is involved in this.
>>79332874
>Democracy is the illusion of power. Basically a dictator you vote for.
Man , that was so deep man i never think about it that way man you totaly blew my mind , and i thought i was free...thatks for sharing such highlysophisticated thought with us anon.
>>79336677
Why are you posting?
Shouldn't you be on strike somewhere?
Consider that in the very end, the EU is a trade monopoly. It's a proto-empire. As such it can't be expected to conform to some idealistic notion of democracy. It is as democratic as a union between 28 states, rich and poor, made up from people, educated or not, can be. The only other real choice would be to say : I don't want such a union at all. I don't want the trade deals either.
>>79336853
Actually, I think we are the retards here.
We are trying to explain how democracy should work to a fucking gypsy.
>>79336874
kek!
>>79336278
this guy right here is the only one that gets it
>>79336843
I'm just realistic.
Plus I believe in God and the eternal live after the death.
This world is shity and mean nothing.
We just have to care that we pass through an acceptable life.
>>79331802
>Romanian intellectuals
>>79337230
seems like it.
Cant wait for the "haha i troll you"
>>79337322
because it hasn't been taking away sovereignty from national parliaments right?
>>79336689
Not all countries require a member of the government to be also a member of the parliament, as far as I know.
So neither are candidates for a commissioner position required to be members of the EU parliament.
Here's the procedure, in short:
>A new team of 28 Commissioners (one from each EU Member State) is appointed every five years.
>The candidate for President of the Commission is proposed to the European Parliament by the European Council that decides by qualified majority and taking into account the elections to the European Parliament.
>The Commission President is then elected by the European Parliament by a majority of its component members (which corresponds to at least 376 out of 751 votes).
>Following this election, the President-elect selects the 27 other members of the Commission, on the basis of the suggestions made by Member States. >The final list of Commissioners-designate has then to be agreed between the President-elect and the Council. The Commission as a whole needs the Parliament's consent. Prior to this, Commissioners-designate are assessed by the European Parliament committees.
Yes, there was a proposition a few years ago, by the former President of the EU parliament, that individual Commissioners should be elected in their countries, or something like that. Not sure what happened with that proposition or if it was practical at all. So they considered this possibility of giving a democratic mandate to a commissioner. But then, this might create problems for how the entire Commission is approved by the parliament later. What if they approve the candidate for president and some candidates for commissioners, but reject others who were democratically elected in their countries? Imagine that any populistic idiot could be voted as a candidate for a position in the Commission. The parliament can't approve any idiot to be part of the Commission, just because he won a popularity contest in his country.
>>79336874
Haha
>>79337516
>Not all countries require a member of the government to be also a member of the parliament, as far as I know.
Not all countries are democracies.
>>79337610
That's a nuclear burn.
>>79337516
>Imagine that any populistic idiot could be voted as a candidate for a position in the Commission.
>populistic as insult
are you some kind of leftist... in gypsy land? Whaaaaa
>>79337610
Well, for example right now we have a technocratic government in Romania, because most people distrust mainstream parties. And this technocratic government proved at least to be less corrupt and incompetent than the previous politically appointed governments. So, there is this piece of evidence. Not all governments which are appointed by democratically elected parliaments are also the best at governing.
>>79337516
>The candidate for President of the Commission is proposed to the European Parliament by the European Council that decides by qualified majority and taking into account the elections to the European Parliament.
kek so what you are saying now you fucker, you posted exactly what have been brought up the whole time.
>>79337875
>less corrupt
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.
>>79336278
This guy gets it.
>>79337875
>Well, for example right now we have a technocratic government in Romania
Just because subhuman gypsy's can't handle democracy doesn't mean you can go ahead and take ours away too.
The world is Governed From the money, and the nations most 'important
always been on the same side , for better or worse people are relatively well in the G7 countries .
and as I read over democracy it is somewhat an illusion .
many British people have the illusion of being free with this vote, but in reality they will not be in the long run and will also have worsened their situational and for sure if things go well in a few years will no longer be ' the fifth world power
>>79337823
Well, imagine that there's a guy who owns a football club who is very popular in that country. And people are fed up with mainstream politicians. And of course, this guy says anything the masses want to hear, like: vote for me, they are all corrupt politicians, I only want the best for you, etc etc.
And people could vote this guy as a candidate for the position of commissioner. A democratically elected populist idiot who provides entertainment for the masses, basically bribing them with entertainment.
>>79330289
Yeah how did that vote help you guys not get assraped by Merkel
>>79338038
no, he doesn't not for one time he acknowledged the fact parliamentary sovereignty is no popular sovereignty thus no democracy. All you guys do is debating several ways of organizing parliamentarism.
>>79336603
yes... and where is the problem... ?
i have no interest or time to handle every tedious bit of our society and thats why i love delegation.
that said i have nothing against more plebiscites... but not about every shity detail.
>>79338075
Shut the fuck up, You are a nation of homosexuals. You were the first who legalised drugs and gay marriage in Europe. You, Dutch people, are the worst degenerates who brought the homosexual plague in Europe. You should off yourselves, you cocksuckers.
>>79338182
and if he accomplishes nothing, he will be gone next election.
>>79338181
Me joining my local party and trying to be an elected official for my constituency to have my voice heard in the house of commons is an illusion? Right, read some more on democracy mate.
>>79338181
Exactly
>>79336278
>a lack of democracy is important to safeguard sovereignty.
Man I bet they wish they'd thought of that one back in the colonial times when we were fighting the yanks and destroying darkies
>>79336774
I doubt it can be reformed. How do you reform it when you can't elect it? Unless loads of right wing populists got in, but the cuck countries would never allow that.
>>79338339
Listen, you made the point that the EU is just democratic as any other democracy. Just admit that you were wrong.
With all honesty if I were living in a corrupt country like Romania I wouldn't want democracy either. That's not the case where I live.
>>79338339
He's lost the ability to argue guys because his position is untenable, now he resorts to ad hominems. shrekt.
>>79338232
>yes... and where is the problem... ?
the problem is the lack of democracy. We're lied, cheated and betrayed on a permanent basis without having a say.
>i have no interest or time to handle every tedious bit of our society and thats why i love delegation.
so you love to be just a piece of taxcattle that likes to be ruled by others?
>that said i have nothing against more plebiscites... but not about every shity detail.
why not every detail? Also, decentralization of power leads to less rather than more regulations.
>>79338232
> more plebiscites
has there ever been one in the EU except for ours?
As far as I am aware they have ignored every single one they don't like.
>>79330095
Second post best post this time.
>>79338339
congratulations you reached rock bottom.
>>79338677
Except the EU has never held a referendum.
>>79337932
And why are you ignoring that the President and its Commission are approved or rejected by vote in the parliament, when it clearly says so in their official documents?
>>79330095
If there is no law, that you have to abide a referendum then who cares? Next time vote for some else.
>>79338800
wishing your ancestors could have done this in 1936?
>>79337422
no national parlaiment was forced to join the EU you retard
>>79333549
The real power in a democracy is the fact that the representatives are accountable to the people. If someone fucks something up, they get voted out. The people who are not directly elected are protected from this because there is no effective way to get them out of power as an ordinary person. This is problematic in the EU where these people are the only ones who can suggest and repeal laws.
>>79336530
Because the majority of the plebiscite population in the UK are ignorant of the fact that the UK is a constitutional monarchy with a Westminster system of government and a democratic parliament (that operates a shady first past the post voting system rather than proportional representation).
They are even more ignorant of how this system of power even operates, and the weak minded (majority) are easily exploited by economic manipulation, state mandated propaganda and privately owned media with vested interests even in this information age when the facts are available to everyone.
And a lot of them are also racist. But that's neither here nor there. It just so happens that this is the easiest way to manipulate sentiment in whatever direction.
>>79330095
You imply the EU respects anything that's against its interests.
>>79329225
I'm gonna go with no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q94syUDDhxA
>>79338960
Never said that you fuckwit. I'm fully aware our previous idiotic governments gave away their sovereignty so their buddies that nobody likes can get into office without a vote and they can create even more bureaucrats.
>>79338513
the leave was voted by a margin of 1.8% (especially from older people)
if between 5/6 years for the united kingdom should not be a bed of roses I do not exclude internal revolts
>>79338760
>approved or rejected
>not elected
Outline me the process to be a candidate for the EU commission bud.
>>79338760
>ignoring
I didn't you mongrel and it still not democratic.
The Council can purpose whoever it wants the people have no saying in who is nominated.
Also since nominations are usually done by parties when you select a socialist you instantly got 1/3 of the votes, make some admissions to the "people party" and you got your 2/3 to get your canidate through.
Its like you never watched or saw how parliaments work... oh well no surprise you are from Romania.
>>79338588
>corrupt country like Romania
I think we imprison more politicians per year than any other European country, including your own.
Does that mean your politicians are like Snow White, virgin and pristine? Or that their corruption goes away unpunished? I think it's the latter.
Sorry to burst your bubble but Romania has been making immense progress in combatting corruption, in the last 9 years. We are now used as an example or how to tackle corruption in many European countries.
Here you go:
http://www.handelsbevordering.nl/en/about-us/news/romanias-chief-anti-corruption-prosecutor-laura-kovesi-receives-european-the-year-award-2016/
>>79339070
And what are yhose interests? Aren't they the interest of the Dutch the German the French elite? How are you fighting those elites at home? You give them tax cuts and call them nation builders.
>>79338661
that's not a problem of the EU but of the national states...^^
if your gov. ignores the ref. it's not the fault of the EU it yours for votiong a shitty gov. into power and letting them follow through with something like that.
>>79339158
More older people voted to remain than 18-25 year olds did. That is how low the fucking turnout was with younger people. Just because the 30 something % that did vote voted majority stay just meant that the rest did not give a flying fuck.
it was about 48 to 52 meaning a 4% gap which was 2 million people. So fuck off.
>>79339207
NOminations are political, just like any nominations for a minister or prime minister. Who do you think is part of the Council? THe fucking Obamas and the Rothschilds? It's your fucking prime ministers and ministers, voted by your governments.
>>79339404
>>79339158
>More older people voted to remain
just to clarify with this I mean 65+ year olds
>>79339208
I am sure Kim Jong Un gets best Korean politician of the year award this year.
>>79330095
If you hold a vote to do something stupid, and a majority votes in favour of said stupid thing because they're too stupid to understand that it's stupid, does it stop being stupid?
No, it just borks the stupid political class who were stupid enough to let the stupid people vote on something so stupid in the first place.
Plebeians died in their millions under the banner of 'democracy'. It's an awful disingenuous system, it's just better than all the other systems people have devised.
>>79339281
It's not our fault you cheated your way in and your economy collapsed. We don't owe you anything.
>>79339518
The award was not given by any Romanian institution, it's some international institution which awarded it.
>>79339427
no one voted for our current chancellor, he has a 27% approval rating.
>>79339109
>so their buddies that nobody likes can get into office without a vote
what are you talking about?
>>79338230
the UK only has parliamentary democracy, not popular democracy. It's a fucking constitutional monarchy. God save the bladdy queen m8.
>>79338636
> We're lied, cheated and betrayed on a permanent basis without having a say.
more plebescites won't change that. springer would still lie to the people...
>so you love to be just a piece of taxcattle that likes to be ruled by others?
i am ruled by someone i voted into power. i have no problem with that. i he pursues policies i don't like i don't vote for him again.
>decentralization of power leads to less rather than more regulations.
that's just not true. decentralisation would lead to more regulation and to different rules about the same issue in different parts of the country...
federalism and subsidiarity are good ideas... but applied in the wrong areas it just makes life more complicated. (different syllabuses in different states...)
>>79329225
EU has proven itself not to be capable of furthering mankind. Let's get rid of it.
>>79339744
stop shitposting
>>79339873
>the UK only has parliamentary democracy, not popular democracy. It's a fucking constitutional monarchy. God save the bladdy queen m8.
do as you please, at least you have a referendum every then and now.
>>79339635
Forget about it and tell me: Do you have the same influence as the upper class in domestic politics? No. Why do you expect to have it on international politics? They choose to be in this union.
>>79339940
-no war between the EU-Memberstates since centurys
-no accomplishments
>>79329225
Question to Radio Yerevan: Is the EU democratic?
Answer: In principle yes. They repeat the referendum so many times until they get what they want
>>79339404
48.2+1.8 =50
1.8% =2.000.000 people
sincerely about 2 million people are not many in comparison as the country has a population of 64,597,000 so if things do not go well in the future for me little happen even internal revolts.
>>79339940
Easy there Belgium, drink another duvel and take one of those chill pills you're oh so enthusiastic about exporting.
>>79339070
What book is this?????
>>79339744
noone voted for faymann either
>>79340179
>no war between the EU-Memberstates since centurys
The EU in its current criticized form only exists since 2003
>>79340233
>I don't like democracy when it doesn't agree with me.
That is how democracy fucking works. Your logic applies in any fucking election. It's never going to be much more than a slight majority.
