Did Japan have any right to attack Pearl Harbor?
Not really.
In fact during that time gooks were considered the crazy sandniggers of that time. (Although sandniggers are 100 times worse).
>>79315809
>>79315923
>cut off oil supply to Japan
Totally had the right
I guess cause they wanted to.
they were entitled to attack
>>79315809
Japan in WWII was a faux threat propped up by the Germans to help them buy time to deal with the Russians.
>>79315809
They were allowed to attack us just like we were allowed to nuke them
>>79315809
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_leading_to_the_attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
>the United States to embargo all oil exports, leading the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) to estimate it had less than two years of bunker oil remaining
Yup they literally forced Japan into war.
>>79316063
>sanction japan because they are forcefully taking other people's colonies
>bad
pick one Mai Waifu
>>79316063
This,
FDR trolled the shit out of Japan and the whole 'sneak attack' was used to get US pissed off...
The Japanese embassy had sent representatives to the US State Department to deliver the official 'Fuck you, you give us no alternative' declaration but were in turn parked and told to wait.
>>79315809
No, that's why they got nuked.
>>79315809
Roosevelt let it happen, just like Bush, to get the people on his side.
>Right
>Attack
>>79315809
>do non-white nations have any right to attack white nations?
The answer is obviously no
>>79316423
This
Talking about right and wrong in war is stupid.
>>79315809
You forced their hand.
>>79315809
Not really. But they weren't committing any crimes by doing so either. There is nothing wrong with attacking a military target with your own military.
Although in this case exceptionally stupid since Yamamoto was absolutely right about what would happen.
>>79316063
>>79316268
>>79316351
a trade embargo is not justification for a war.
no matter how much FDR intended to drag us into a war, the japs were the ones dumb enough to give him what he wanted.
>>79315809
Right has nothing to do with it. They attacked and suffered the consequences.
>>79316299
>taking people's land is bad
Cry me a river, cuckboy.
Japs and Italy lost Germany a war.Retards.
>>79316616
>a trade embargo is not justification for a war
Are you retarded? The reliance of oil for your war machine is extremely important. The US knew exactly what it was getting into.
>>79315809
Yes. Rosenfeldt was counting on it and moved anything not garbage from the harbour.
>America has an obligation to sell Japan oil
Get the fuck out of here with that utter nonsense. That's like saying we can bomb Dusseldorf if Germany stops selling us Mercedes.
>>79315809
They had the best carrier fleet in the world at the time and it just so happened that the entire US fleet (minus the carries) was at Pearl Harbor, so why not attack?
>>79316522
>>79316423
A right is not the same thing as morality you fucking morons.
>>79316063
>sanctioning a country gives them the right to commit a war crime against you
Kill yourself leafboy
>>79316739
US: We will no longer give you supplies to wage a war that we do not agree with. We will continue negotiations to try t improve the situation.
Japan: Fuck you! That's an act of war.
No. It isn't. Embargo is not an act of war and has never been considered one, Japan had their own imperialistic reasons to want to attack the US but do not try to justify it with bullshit like that.
>>79315809
Who cares? It's not about what they had a 'right' to do. They did it because it was the best/only way to fight the USA.
>>79316595
It was a gamble that cost the US Fleet WWI relic Nevada class Battleships, now could you imagine had the USS Nevada been sunk in the Pearl Harbor channel? That would've fucked up Pacific Operations for quite some time, the USS Oklahoma (the one that capsized almost completely) wasn't salvaged/cleared til late 42' and it was relatively intact, if the Nevada was in the harbor channel (Pearl is really, really, really shallow to get the USS Missouri in they had to take just about everything that wasn't bolted down off to clear the entrance).
Imagine that clusterfuck... (Navy uses term Charlie Fox)
>>79316888
> Embargo is not an act of war and has never been considered one
Trade wars were always a thing.In conditions of world war this is equal to delayed war declaration
>>79315809
even if they were in the right to attack Pearl Harbor, they were pretty dumb to attack pearl harbor.
if they attacked Russia from the East, do you know what would have happened? crucial reinforcements wouldn't arrive in Moscow from the East, they would have to stay there. this could have meant Moscow would have fallen to the Germans, the Germans would have beaten the USSR and that we'd all be speaking German rite now.
crazy how it all works out
>>79316739
So if I live next to you, and I armored my car and use it to drive into people's houses across the street and rape and murder them, and I'm running low on gas, you're absolutely ok with me murdering you for the gas in your car if I run low?
Are you fucking retarded?
>>79316656
I guess we should expect a nuclear retaliation from russia any second now for the crimean sanctions right slanty.
Everyone knew what they were doing in China and in response we politely told them to fuck off.
>USA is evil for not supplying Japan's genocidal conquests in Asia
liberals everybody
>>79316770
>oil is the same thing as luxury cars
This board is full of goddamn half-wits.
>>79316887
Again, cry me a fucking river and fuck off with your war crimes. You still have many to answer for during WWII and nobody gives two shits when greatest ally commits any.
The UN is a joke and you're a joke. Let's see the US sit idly by with 90% less oil.
>>79316888
Wasted trips.
>>79316788
Everything in the harbour including the crewman were expendable to Rosenfeldt. Even the local papers knew it was coming days beforehand.
>>79317027
kek
>>79317009
lol no, you don't understand that Germany and Japan never ever had a chance, if Japan had tried to focus their effort on Siberia it would have been over even faster
>>79317027
This is a direct comparison, you got me there.
>>79317029
No, because the Russians have every right to take land if they can. Anyone does, it's a natural right under natural law.
>>79315809
Yes, the oil embargo was an act of war by a communist president
>>79316616
the cold war was all about america trying to enforce an embargo.what if europe tryed to stop teh oil from russia to britain, businse would grind to a halt so we would have to use any force nesscerry, russia... might side with europe, or play a neutral party... europe are a bigger customer, but that would be europe enforcing an enbargo on britain
>>79317064
It's a commodity like any other. Value, as always, is subjective, you disgusting communist. Do you deny subjective value, Bolshevik?
The idea that a foreign nation, much less a slanty eyed yellow monkey nation, can control our trade affairs from abroad and demand that we sell them our goods or else they will inflict violence on us is nothing short of suggesting that America is not a sovereign nation, but a vassal of Japan.
Stupid and wrong. Go fuck yourself you greasy snow nigger.
>>79315809
It didn't even make sense to attack Pearl Harbor.
>>79316994
i think people were a bit more pissed at 3k americans being killed rather than losing a ship
>>79317170
You can't predict such larg scale events.Most likely USSR would fall but Jap would get backstabbed by USA.They considered this option and that's why they chose to attack US.
>>79316063
>selling zipperheads oil they use to invade china and rape the women while oppressing their own people with rationing of OH WOW, OIL, YOU DON'T SAY
they made their choice.
>>79317057
>some genocidal conquests are okay, others are baaaaaaaaaad
>>79317282
>still trying to compare luxury cars to oil
>>79316739
you are literally retarded leaf.
no nation has a right to US exports and if japan wanted our oil they could have stopped invading china. instead they attacked a nation that had supplied them oil and was at peace with them.
japan had zero justification for bombing a neutral nation that used to trade with.
>>79317057
They will do anything to take a cheap shot at the US.
>>79317104
This is the only thing that makes sense. Why the fuck they put the whole fleet at one place at a very tense time?
>>79317174
>might makes right
I'm glad you're resorting to meme tier arguments to show how retarded you are
>>79317368
I'll compare it to anything I want, you fucking ice gook. A commodity is a commodity is a commodity. Value is subjective, now and always. Our goods are our goods, and no country, or assembly of countries, has any right to them whatsoever if we decide for ourselves to cease trading with them. And that's a fact.
To deny this fact is to deny American sovereignty.
>>79317009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria
and they would've gotten their asses kicked. the red army did more damage to japan in 2 weeks than the rest of the allies did in 10 years.
>>79317424
>no nation has a right to US exports and if japan wanted our oil they could have stopped invading china.
Yeah because that's what I'm saying, burger. Fuck, you're not too bright, are ya?
>neutral nation
Top kek.
>>79317003
trade wars aren't actual wars.
they're just embargoes and tariffs that go back and forth.
It's war, you stupid faggots who think that there are rules that need to be followed are delusional. Of course they had the right.
Justification might be another thing.
>>79316268
>"we only have enough oil for 2 years"
>"let's open up another front against a superior force with more resources"
Nips are retarded
>>79315809
No, it hurt them more though as it just dragged America into the war, which Hitler could have done without.
>>79317508
How is that a meme tier argument? Are you going to cede to the fact that you have no legal claim on your household?
>>79317536
>I'll compare it to anything I want, you fucking ice gook.
Go ahead, it doesn't do anything for your argument.
Luxury cars matter to a select few people, whereas nearly every person on this planet relies on oil for their very lives.
>>79317027
lol, this
>>79317170
idk senpai the loss of Moscow would have been a huge moral/legitamacy blow to the USSR and could have sent them into a downward spiral into confusion and discoordination.
plus, remember that even though the US was doing all it could economically to shore up Britain and Russia, it couldn't enter the war militarily because the public was so against it. pearl harbor provided the one thing that the President needed to enter WW2 as a military force. so if Japan attacked Russia instead of Pearl harbor, that's like two major things; Russia has to fight Japan in the East instead of helping fend off the Germans in the west, and that the US wouldn't have formally entered the war.
daily reminder that the Germans were literally only miles away from Moscow and the soviets experienced defeat after defeat at the hands of the Germans up until Stalingrad and Moscow
>>79317625
they were able to invade the philippines (a us territory) and other countries in southeast asia and exploit their resources as a result of pearl harbor.
>>79315809
>Rights
>Warfare
I don't think you understand sovereignty, fampai.
>>79315809
Sure they did, they were a sovereign nation and it was their business who they attacked or not.
Just as I firmly believe America had all the right in the world to nuke them after the fact. And I'll be the first to admit it could only lead to the Japanese getting a well deserved shoeing.
>>79317027
Despite the fact that in this situation you're just seemingly poor and can't afford gasoline to power your car, you don't have the right to murder and rape people.
Jesus fucking Christ, can you try and make a sound argument next time?
>>79316616
>a trade embargo is not justification for a war.
You know that Japan was something like ~ 95% reliant on imports for oil and that their entire infrastructure was going to collapse causing mass starvation.
So what would be a justification for war in your opinion?
>>79317746
Once more, you can keep pushing your communist theory of value, but it's not going to be accepted by me or this republic. We don't believe in it here. Got a problem with that? Invade. Short of that, you're just going to have to deal with the fact that the most powerful nation on earth does not subscribe to your left-wing definition of value.
And it wouldn't matter anyway. Every single soul in Japan depended on our (emphasis on "our") oil to survive or else their entire peoplehood would perish, and we decided not to sell it to them, it would STILL be our right as a sovereign nation.
People like you are why Canada is not taken seriously as a nation.
>>79317424
Your country waited till Japan attacks Russia, sinks into Siberia to backtab it.Japs did what they could to prevent it.It wasnt HUEHUE random attack, it was taken after thinking of every possible outcome.Japan was fucked in any scenario unless it took US by surprise like this.Didn't work out.
>>79317559
There were wars over trade interests and embargos, that's what I am telling you.And then it wasn't even a world war happening like in US-Japan scenario.
>>79316994
Had the Nevada gone down in the channel it would have taken months to cut her apart and free the entrance. Thankfully her captain realized what was happening and ran her aground.
I had a relative on the West Virginia and she would have suffered the same fate as the Oklahoma if the decision wasn't made to flood the other side of the ship to sink her upright. While it killed some men in the process, it saved more and save the ship allowing it to be re-floated and modernized later.
>>79317316
Oh absolutely, but if the Nevada sank where she was it would have cut off an entrance to the harbor and left is unusable. And at the time Battleships were still seen as that main weapon for naval war and what the US focused on, so losing numerous of them would be like losing a large portion of our nuclear arsenal today.
>>79317545
the invasion of manchuria involved experienced, battle hardened soviet troops from the western front, not to mention that Japan was getting its shit pushed in by America in naval warfare and the bombing of the mainland, so they couldn't really focus their nation on the invasion of manchuria.
impossible to say how it would have played out, Japan really was at a technologically disadvantage compared to the Russians, but it still could have been just enough to tip Moscow into the German's hands
>>79316595
You want mirrion dorrar?
Do you guys really think US wouldn't wait for Japan to sink into Siberia and backstabbed them?Delusional.
>>79317926
How is it our problem that a bunch of yellow monkeys in a far away land built an economy dependent on imports? How does that magically give this foreign country a right to access our goods that we own and control?
>>79317811
Yes, but doubling the size of your enemies to stretch the war out was foolish. Should've focused on snatching oil producing parts of Russia and China
>>79317549
no you are saying they were justified in attacking us because we stopped trading with them. that is literally retarded.
no nation is obligated to trade with another and just because one nation stop trading does not justify another attacking said nation.
and the US was neutral with allied leanings until the japs attacked pearl harbor.
>>79316616
>a trade embargo is not justification for a war.
When Japan refused to trade with the USA in the 19th century, you sent a fleet under Commodore Perry and threatened to bombard every port in Japan unless they agreed to let your merchants into their country.
So, by American tradition, a trade embargo *is* a reason for war, especially where Japan is concerned.
>>79317356
They had given up on that idea after Zhukov had BTFO them at Khalkhin-Gol.
>>79317951
>you can keep pushing your communist theory of value
Are you serious? I shouldn't have to explain to anyone that luxury cars and oil aren't comparable.
>it's our right to reject oil and watch millions perish
It is your right
>it's not the right for a sovereign nation to attack another after supporting Japan's enemies and trying to ruin their war machine and projecting power
Fuck off.
>>79317424
>neutral nation
Saying they had a right to attack is silly, but so is calling the US neutral to Japan. 1st AVG was in China before Pearl Harbor, even if they didn't see combat until a few days later.
Most bizarre thing ever was reading a Chinese r/Asianmasculintiy poster arguing that the USA was racist and genocidal against the Japs for not selling them oil so they couldn't roll their tanks over Chinese villagers and rape women to death.
>>79318214
link?
>>79318128
Reason and Justification are different. Forcing open the harbors of Japan wasn't justified. It was smart though
>>79318158
There's nothing for you to explain, son. Value is subjective, and you're trying to impose an objective value on a commodity. It's straight communism. Japan valued our oil imports more than we valued the price on offer for them. So we shut down trade. Subjective. Value. Now run along little snow nigger and go push your Marxist horseshit elsewhere.
>>79318071
We were allied to the Republican Chinese and the Ruskies so it was a matter of time. If we could we would do the same to Japan what they did to us.
>>79318110
The US was not neutral, neutral entities don't support a certain side with arms and military support.
>you are saying they were justified in attacking us because we stopped trading with them
That's exactly what I'm saying, because it's true.
>>79318137
>Khalkhin-Gol
situation changed drastically since than, admit it.
>>79317926
If Japan was so reliant on imports then maybe they shouldn't have started invading all their neighbors and previous trading partners and wasting what little resources they had. Japan at that time was a mix of new technology and old ideas. Ideas that the Japanese were superior and deserved to take over Asia.
>>79318071
Japan never had plans to attack the USSR. Hitler never wanted them involved in the fight because he believed it was his fight against Communism. Japan didn't want to fight a war they would gain nothing from.
>>79318320
>Value is subjective
Not in this case you wishy washy post modern faggot. In this case Oil is MORE valuable than a type of car and still is. Fuck off, you're a complete moron.
>>79317545
>the red army did more damage to japan in 2 weeks than the rest of the allies did in 10 years.
>the US literally firebombed homeland japan leaving cities as nothing but smoldering ruins
>cut off all their access to the outside world
>sunk every ship that had a Japanese flag
>japs literally starving to death
>hurr the soviets did more damage to the japs
this is how retarded you sound.
the soviets attacked japs that had been effectively cut off for the better part of a year. they did fuck all in the pacific theater except give land to communist china.
>>79318110
are you KIDDING ME
the US was giving so much shit to Russia and Britain. the reason Britain didn't fall to the Germans was because of how much economic aid and military materiel the Americans were giving them
>>79318382
>>79318382
>Hitler never wanted them involved in the fight because he believed it was his fight against Communism
This is anime-tier argument.If Hitler could call Japan to arms stayed it neutral and he was losing war-he would.He wouldn't sacrifice german nation because of ''its german, not japaneese fight''.Japan actually claimed some asian colonies and soviet territories, what do you mean by ''gain nothing?''
>attacked Pearl Harbor
To destroy the US fleet, but some werent there.
Americans were lucky as fuck even in following battles.
>>79318450
No, wrong. The value of that oil was what we said it was. Period. It was our oil, we set the price. The price we demanded was Japanese ceasefire in China. Japan believed that price was too high. Therefore, no agreement could be sustained and trade ended. It's that simple, commie. We set a price, and Japan refused to meet the price for OUR GOODS.
Are you suggesting that America can't even negotiate its own trade deals now? Every country on earth can decide on our behalf how much our goods need to be sold for on the open market, or else they will commit acts of violence against us?
You will never, ever sell the American people on this idea. Guess we just have to agree to disagree. This nation will never adopt your theory of value. If you want to change that, invade you little snow pussy.
>>79317963
I had to drive from Barbers Point NAS to Pearl almost daily, I often think how crippled things would've been had the fuel depots also got fragged, transporting everything to Kaneohe, and trying to operate out of a port 1/4th the size of Pearl...
That would've been an absolute disaster.
fun fact, the USN killed more civilians than the Japanese did, they were shooting at IJN planes and the shells were landing in downtown Honolulu and Pearl City!
>>79318137
should have allied with Gul-Dukat
>>79318262
was several months ago but I doubt the level of crazy has subsided much
The latest theory they had was that all inter Asian conflict is the result of "white treachery."
I asked if they blamed white people for Chinese trawlers ignoring national boundaries and taking 50 tons of fish from Thailand and putting local fishermen out of business.
They've devolved into crazy conspiracy theories and just hating white people. I don't visit anymore because they banned me twice and it's literally the most insane people I've ever converced with.
Also americans at that time were acting as colonizers and hade phillipines and a big part of pacific under its control.
>>79318541
>the US was giving so much shit to Russia and Britain.
Everything you "gave" to Britain was paid for in gold. After Lend Lease, we were allowed to run a tab but it still had to be paid in full. This was a deliberate strategy to weaken postwar Britain.
As for Russia, I don't think giving them trucks makes you heroic. Fighting the Germans makes you heroic. And you never did that, did you?
I wouldn't say they had a right but they had plenty of reasons. The US embargoed Oil imports to them. So they need Oil but to get it they have to invade south. They know this will probably get the US involved in the war. Attacking their main naval base in the pacific seems like a good idea. I wouldn't be surprised if the US received Intel on the pending attack and that's why a good number of their fleet wasn't there.
>>79318158
It's the right of Japan to attack the USA to try to convince them to keep supporting invasions in allied colonies.
It is also Japan's right to be thoroughly dicksmacked in the Pacific and then nuked when they realise the USA and Japan in a war is like Anne frank hiding from the SS
>Tl;dr fuck off worst colony, the invaded in the Pacific, the USA was threatened, and then they lost the war
>>79318680
Again, you're a moron but try and have a good day.
>This nation will never adopt your theory of value.
It already has since your country has already went to war numerous times over oil as opposed to what shitty cars are being imported into your country.
You're literally retarded if you're trying to compare iPhones and cars to crude oil, absolutely retarded.
>>79319017
I think we can thank the Brits, Canadians, Polish, Czechs and the Belgians for holding out against the Luftwaffe while the US still had it's thumb nursing it's arsehole.
Friendly reminder our great grandpas fought in World War Two only to watch you vote/allow socialism and communism into the country because you didn't want to get called names on facebook
>>79319168
I can compare any commodity to any other commodity because that is what subjective value inheres. It is built into the very nature of subjective value, which is economically axiomatic. Unless you're a communist.
And no, you're wrong again, gook. We will never adopt that position. We will never allow a foreign nation to threaten us with war if we don't sell our goods to them, whatever those goods may be or however that foreign nation may value them. To allow that would be to undo our entire Republic, all 240 years of it. It was be the complete and of the United States. It will never happen.
You're going to have to learn to deal with that, slope.
>>79319434
Your fighting against a slain enemy
You need to step the fuck up against our internal communists/globalist
>>79319434
>We will never allow a foreign nation to threaten us with war if we don't sell our goods to them
You would also not allow a single nation to cut 90% of your oil supply, rendering you a pathetic nation on life support.
Again, fuck off. You're a moron.
>>79315809
Yes, but they should have done it after the fall of russia
The United States was jew'd into WWII. Before the Pearl Harbor attack the majority of the US populace wanted to stay away from the war. Seeing as Hitler was raping the brits and churchill lobbying the US congress to get involved, FDR let his inner jew overcome him and began to supply the allies while cutting off oil to japan. His plan was to bait japan into attacking the US (We're the good guys THEY started it, we dindu nuffin!) to take advantage of the emotional Americans and levy war. Kind of like what the republicans did in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks.
>>79319017
>Everything you "gave" to Britain was paid for in gold
yeah I know this? I shouldn't have said 'gave' but whatever the idea I was trying to communicate was that the US was helping out Britain
> Fighting the Germans makes you heroic. And you never did that, did you?
the fuck is this shit. lmao and that image, I just hope you realise that the image you posted exaggerates everything the British did and passes off the American actions as completely insignificant. propoganda is propoganda, I just hope you have the intellectual honesty to realize that
reminder that if the US didnt enter the land war against Germany in Europe, a lot more of Europe would have fallen under the yoke of soviet communism
>>79319576
We would never allow ourselves to grow that dependent on a single foreign market. That alone makes Japan worthy of the loss they received, for being that damn stupid.
>>79317926
germany had more justification invading poland than japan did invading literally any of the people they attacked.
the jap rationale was basically "fuck you, all belongs to japan"
if they didn't want their entire economy to collapse, than maybe they should have stopped invading china like we asked.
>>79317957
>Your country waited till Japan attacks Russia
japan never attacked russia. there were only a few border skirmishes before 1939.
>Japan was fucked in any scenario unless it took US by surprise like this.
or they could have, you know, stopped invading everyone around them.
>There were wars over trade interests and embargos
im not denying that trade conflicts have escalated to war. im just saying that trade embargoes don't justify wars.
>>79318128
doesn't mean we were justified in doing so.
and by all accounts, everybody had a great time when commodore Perry arrived in japan.
>>79318343
trade embargoes=/=war justification
if i refuse to lend my neighbor my lawnmower, that doesn't give him the right to molotov my fucking garage.
>>79319434
Also, one commodity is inherently more valuable than the other when it accounts of a good chunk of your GDP, it runs your entire industry and the fact it's a commodity that millions of people died for.
Ring me when the Mercedes World War breaks out, I want to be prepared.
>>79317926
Why didn't the japs just attack Russia from the east and win a front?
>>79319168
Value is value is value. The object of which we attach value is irrelevant. People depend on vehicles as much as they depend on Oil, because without any automobiles there would be substantially less demand for Oil, so our value on Oil would drop. If Japan didn't use oil to fuel their warmachine we disagreed with, we probably never would have stopped.
iPhones and cars can easily be compared to crude oil. People these days rely on their smartphones to the point they're lost without them. In those days, Oil was a need because everyone needed vehicles, and still do to this day. Oil's value is based on consumption as is any consumer product of which Oil belongs.
>>79319744
That was the plan
But oh well next time
>>79319168
>the US still had its thumb nursing its arsehole
>the US poured military materiel into Britain and Russia
choose one you fucking leaf
>>79319716
>We would never allow ourselves to grow that dependent on a single foreign market.
Yet IF you were in that situation you would have responded the exact same way.
>>79318078
>How is it our problem
It wasn't and the US played both Guomindang, CPC and Japan against oneanother to pick up the pieces afterwards. Also as you are oblivious to the meaning of an embargo the oil was never property of the US who set up a blockade and forced the entire world short of the Axis to no longer supply Japan under threat of war. This was before war was declared by/against Japan.
>>79318382
>maybe they shouldn't have started invading all their neighbors
They didn't pre embargo. They had siezed Tsing Tao from the Germans in WW1 and the Allies had granted them sovereignty over it to Chinas horror. The Chinese in turn boycotted Japanese products and cut food supplies which short of letting everyone starve forced Japan to invade Korea, Manchuria and the fertile east coast of China. Guess what they still had to ration heavily and embark on their admittedly pre meditated dutch-eastindia campaign.
>>79319719
>if i refuse to lend my neighbor my lawnmower, that doesn't give him the right to molotov my fucking garage.
You fuckers are horrible at comparisons.
>>79318541
thats why i said allied leaning
its pretty easy to justify trading with one side when the other is doing all the blatant invading.
>>79319017
>Rommel
>Good General
>Montgomery
>Good General
Holy shit that picture is nothing but British fanwank that totally downplays American involvement in North Africa and the Battle of the Atlantic.
>>79315809
Who has the right to do anything?
People just do what they think they can get away with.
>>79315809
>Did Japan have any right to attack Pearl Harbor?
Nope
>Did America have the right to side with the Allies instead of the Axis and oil embargo Japan?
Noper
>>79319733
That is subjective value. If said commodity comprises x% of country Y's GDP, that is their subjective valuation of the commodity. We did not share Japan's valuation of the oil, don't you see? We set a price: Withdraw from China. Japan felt that price was too steep. Get it yet? Two different valuations of the same commodity. What you're suggesting is that America, a sovereign nation, should have its Constitution torn to shreds by a foreign nation whenever that foreign nation places a value on our commodities that conflict with the value we hold for them. The notion is utterly absurd.
>>79319827
I'm sorry, nursing your thumbs with your arseholes while at the same time throwing a bone over to a few hungry dogs.
Good on you.
>>79319434
Wew lad.
To be honest, if I got cut off nearly all the things I need to live, I would commit a crime against those people. You fucking can't tell me I would have no right.
>>79319719
See >>79319875 and wallow in shame for being so fucking ignorant of your history pleb.
>>79316063
>>79316351
>Japan is entitled to American oil
wtf i hate america now
>>79319930
you said "neutral with allied leanings," so I misunderstood you
>>79320006
lmao fucking butthurt leaf. everyone tries to pass off the Americans as an 'insignificant factor' in WW2 because they're jealous of our superiority, so if WE are insignifcant in WW2, what the fuck does that make Canada in ww2?
>>79319688
Starting to think more and more i would rather have a nazi Europe versus a communist Europe
>>79315809
Why are you muricans still crying over 3000 sailors and a couple of dated battleships anyhow?
>>79319744
That was literally what Hitler was banking on when he allied with them. He even declared war on the US under the mistaken belief that doing so would convince the Japs to do the same to Russia. If it weren't for that the US still might not have gotten directly involved with the European war
>>79320122
ya rite? made me think. and I'm a burger so thinking is difficult and that makes me angree
>>79320005
The US should have its Constitution torn to shreds when it gets beaten down by a superior force.
Again your postmodern outlook on this situation still isn't helping your argument when one commodity is necessary for the health and well-being of millions of people and a luxury car is really only good for driving around like some pompous douchebag.
>>79319842
Here's an idea. If America became oil dependent on a single foreign market, and decided to wage war despite this unsustainable dependency, instead of suing for peace so we can continue peaceful trade, I would suggest that the leaders responsible for this are fuckwits and should be thrown out of office.
It's not like we said we won't sell to Japan because they're slanty eyed fuckers (which, too, would have been our right). We told them we would sell if they met a condition. A price.
They refused the price we set. So we refused to sell OUR commodity. It was ours after all. Do you understand the notion of ownership at all? Are you that far gone, commie?
>>79319889
maybe you're just retarded
refusing to trade with someone does not give someone the right to respond with force
>>79319744
Zhukov blew the absolute fuck out of the Japanese whenever they tried that and they were scared to go back
>>79320082
>Japan has a natural right under natural law to strike back against a crushing move by the US
FTFY. The ammount of cucks in here saying embargo /=/ justification for war is asountanding. Let's see a country have it's water and food supply cut by 90% and have them not want to retaliate in any way.
>>79320147
I'm not saying you're an insignificant factor, I'm saying you could have showed up a few years earlier.
>>79320221
The well being of foreign peoples are absolutely, unequivocally not our responsibility, problem, or concern, unless we decide to make it such. We decided not to make the well being of the Japanese people our concern. And that's that. It is our sovereign right. To rob us of that is to rob us of sovereignty, and that will never happen without bloodshed.
>>79320425
The embargo would have literally been lifted if they would have just stopped invading nearby countries for no reason.
If you want to get goods from another country you have to pay for them. This is the cost, Japan refused to pay.
>>79319017
ghey shit
Britain would have lost in Asia if not for the US completely destroying the IJN single-handedly.
The limeys got their teeth kicked in by the Japanese:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_Prince_of_Wales_and_Repulse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_raid
>>79320425
>I'm saying you could have showed up a few years earlier.
sorry that the US had a massive national precendent and reverance of isolationism?
even with the US public very much against getting involed in a European war, the leaders of the US still did as much as they could, with the trade, like Ive been saying
>>79315809
Dunno how you can count any unprovoked attack as a right familia but to answer your question no.
It was literally the result of a power struggle between the air force and the army to get a massive grant from the government and the air force needed something bigger than taking the entire south Pacific to have even chance of beating the army for the money.
So naturally they fucked up the most powerful navy in the world in their own turf
>>79315809
They were bullied by USA, so yes.
>>79320269
You're so far up your own ass you literally think I'm talking about entitlement. You morons have such a poor grasp on the English language you'll just read a word and already have 3 different meanings in your head lined up ready to go.
I'm not talking about entitlement to good, I'm talking about justification for war when said goods are your entire livelihood.
>>79320324
duuuuuuuuuuuur read above.
>>79320464
>still literally has no idea what anyone is talking about
>>79320515
And the US would literally have not been attacked if you didn't cut 90% of their oil :^)
See how that works?
>>79320515
>pay for them using Jew money
>>79319875
>>79320051
the US embargo on japan involved the US only. hardly anyone else was exporting oil at the time.
did FDR expect japan to attack the US? yes, and he was an asshole for intentionally dragging us into a war we didn't want to fight.
but the japs could have avoided all of this mess by stopping their invasion of china.
Would a Nazi Europe be better than our current communist Europe?
>>79320852
The embargo wasn't an ultimatum and everyone at the time and everyone that knows a lick about WW2 knows that now.
>>79320803
Your justification for it is nonsensical. It's just sheer nonsense. It's premised on an absurd, unamerican idea that the United States is morally obligated to surrender its sovereignty to foreign nations whenever foreign nations demand that our goods be sold to them on certain terms that we are not allowed to negotiate. It's asinine and our nation was not founded on it. It's as simple as that, you communist gook.
If you had just said, "war is war, and Japan invaded because they were desperate and gambled on a theory of war that didn't pan out" we wouldn't be in this discussion. That would be fine. But no, you have to try and justify it under some vague, unreasonable standard of morality that just doesn't apply here, or anywhere really. It's silliness, and you look like a fool. And a communist.
>>79320803
>Not funding their war machine is justification for being attacked
Leaf, you're fucking retarded.
>>79320425
If i'm a farmer that refuses to sell my goods to a starving person that does not give the starving person the right to attack me and steal my property, they could try but then I would be obligated to defend myself and my goods from murder and theft.
>>79319842
>IF
>WHAT IF
We won't, because we are 100% capable of being self sufficient if need be. However, we currently open trade with foreign countries due to the fact that it's cheaper and keeps our resources high. So there is no IF here.
>>79319889
No, it's the same thing just on a level you can understand. Or, maybe it isn't, since you guys have shit taste in lawnmowers and beer.
A better example would be:
>If I refuse to lend my neighbor my maple syrup, that doesn't give him the right to send his refugees to my cuckshed. That is my cuckshed, and I value my maple syrup more than his ability to use it.
Considering tower in charge at the time in the states allowed it to happen in order to galvanize the American people into fighting the war, I don't think it gets any more right than that.
>>79320425
Oil embargo to stop them from bringing war to the entirety of s.e. Asia and pacific. This is a good thing. Are you legit retarded or are you a fucking weab?
>>79320803
>I'm not talking about entitlement to good, I'm talking about justification for war when said goods are your entire livelihood.
Japan was buying oil and persuing their own imperialistic ambitions.
He just said that the condition America gave Japan to purchase oil was that it ceased its imperialism.
It refused.
So America stopped selling it oil. Yes Japan has fuck all natural resources, but its still one of the worlds largest economies today and it does that without invading other countries.
America was well within its right to refuse to sell to Japan.
>>79320852
China was a backwater shithole, and still is. They are eternally butt blasted at the Japanese for being a nation formed by their incompetence in the first place. Japanese forces worked hand in hand with the emperor of China, where as a bunch of retarded peasants overthrew the government and thousands of years of tradition in the name of communism and further butt blastment.
I suppose you are the type of person who thinks America belongs to native American savages as well.
>>79316063
>American oil is Japanese oil
Except it's not, you fucking Nip. Not to mention, they literally sank a US merchant ship in the Yangtze and we let them get away with a warning and the stupid slant eyes went and did Pearl Harbor.
Two bombs wasn't enough. We should have glassed the whole fucking island back into the stone age.
>>79320425
just because someone can do something doesn't mean they have a right to do it
by your logic, the US has every right in the world to wipe your pathetic excuse for a "nation" off the map.
>>79320803
>I'm not talking about entitlement to good, I'm talking about justification for war when said goods are your entire livelihood.
if you rely on imports from other nations, then maybe you shouldn't piss off those nations.
don't bite the hand that feeds you.
>>79321087
>your industry collapsing and your people starving to death isn't a justification for war
Whatever you say, dumb dumb.
>>79321090
It's justification for them to attack whoever put them in the spot, I don't know how you don't understand this.
>>79321158
Except that comparison is retarded because you don't rely on maple syrup to live.
>>79320961
yes. the only thing I really truly want from the future of the world is for the white race to survive, but I guess even that is too much to ask for from our globalist overlords
Nope.
>But muh oil cutoffs
Sellers have the right to refuse sale for any reason. (At least then they did)
the existence of weebs in America was the second Pearl Harbor
>>79317762
Yeah Russian death role was horrificly immense. Basically using the "drown them in your blood" strategy. Germans probably started running out bullets.
>>79321371
Fucking retarded burgers, I don't know how many times I have to say I'm not talking about ENTITLEMENT.
I'm nearly done with this board, since its infiltration by NSA and CIA a few weeks ago it's been non stop shilling and non stop liberal cocksuckers who pretend to not know what language is.
>>79321456
And you don't rely on Oil to live, you rely on Oil to make a livelihood, but Oil does not create food nor water.
>>79321456
The Japanese didn't rely on oil to live. They relied on it to to meep their war machine going so they can keep raping and pillaging Southeast Asia.
>>79321456
Maybe they should've thought about that before angering the US with their wars of conquest
>>79321456
It's not a justification of war. It may be the catalyst for war, but you're trying to place this scenario in a bubble and you can't do that. If a string of policies leads to such a disastrous result as waging a foreign war while dependent on an oil market belonging to a sovereign that is against that war, then the people to blame are the fucking idiotic leaders who created that bind, not the nation who refuses permit the sale of the commodities under their regulation. They are responsible, and the policies they established that led to this position need to be repealed. This is doubly true if the nation threatening to cease trade has given us an easy out: stop waging a war we can't afford.
Japan was offered that easy out.
>>79321727
Fuck me, this place is hopeless.
>>79316063
>>79316656
>>79316739
>>79316834
Leaf ban when? Seriously this dense fucker is giving me cancer.
>>79321604
Stop pretending you're right-wing and go back to fucking tumblr you silly communist shitskin. You're sitting here advocating literal Marxist-Leninism and laughable notions of internationalist moral obligations to foreign countries whilst pretending to be right-wing, though you haven't said a single solitary right-wing thing in this entire thread.
Canada is a shit tier nation because of clowns like you.
>>79321825
You're welcome to get the fuck out.
>>79321456
leafs like you will be the end of our nation. You're so dense you're nearly on par with a black hole
>>79321131
Seeing as though you have a natural right to food if there is no food available to forage, it's well within that man's natural rights to steal that food from you.
You have a natural right to your existence, you realize this right? You do realize that you have a natural right to respond when your natural right to existence is threatened, right?
>>79321577
anime is why God put the japanese on this earth
we invaded Japan just so we could force them to make anime for us
>>79317104
Bullshit. The battleships were still the top dog of the seas at the time. The only reason carriers started to dominate the USN doctrines at the time was because the USN didn't really have any other capital ships afloat. This train of thought, that Battleships were top dog, was so pervasive that even in the era of the nuclear carriers the USN still went ahead with upgrading the Iowas. Granted that was as much a statement of 'Hey Ivan guess how fucking RICH we are? Yeah that's right, rich enough to afford to upgrade these here dinosaurs into something halfway useful even though we could have like, five more effective ships for the same prices'.
Of course during the war in the pacific the USN (and with them the rest of the world) started to realize that hang on, carriers are fucking awesome. The rest is history.
>>79317496
Because no one in their right minds would try and attack the most important naval base of the biggest economy in the world. See what happened to Japan as to why this train of thought was vindicated (the Japanese at the time were in fact not in their right minds).
>>79321361
china being full of retarded chinks has very little to do with japan wanting their land and america not wanting to trade with japan.
none of what you said here has anything to do with the point i was making
>I suppose you are the type of person who thinks America belongs to native American savages as well.
no, fuck the natives, they attacked us first after we settled land that nobody lived on.
>>79322035
Except that the Japanese weren't naturally existing. They were fucking conquering Southeast Asia.
>>79321131
Do you see how I'm not denying your right to kill that fuckers ass if he tries to steal your food?
>>79319744
Well, Japan's main force was Naval power, the IJA wasn't that large and most of it's shit was in Manchuria and Korea, the glue that held the East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was the IJN, and invading the largely empty far eastern Russia would've bled the IJA dry. There was no real point to occupy Vladivostok or invade huge vacant steppes when not even the Russians wanted to be there.
>>79317625
Your reply is exactly what I was thinking.
>nearly out of oil, critical resource for war
>speed use of resource by lashing out because of sanctions on this resource
>establish multiple fronts all of which need logistical supply of increasingly scarce oil
Sounds like they neglected to read "The Art of War", because goddamn they made a stupid move.
>>79322123
>conquering is bad when certain people do it
Conquering land is a part of humanities natural instinct to migrate to other lands. We exist on land that we have a natural right to exist on, because we conquered it and took it. Natives be damned.
>>79322035
Are you trolling or just fucking retarded? You literally implied you were right wing while advocating Marxism.
Go fuck yourself.
>>79315809
they had every right, but read us the wrong way. japan thought wiping out our carriers would force the us to make a treaty. japan didnt want a real war and always knew they would lose if they fought for real. but all they really did is shake the bee's nest
>>79322035
You can't have a natural right to have something, you fucking moron. They had the right to try, but that's just because natural rights are just what you are physically capable of doing, and are not a justification
>>79322073
>invaded japan.
We didnt invade shit. We nuked em so that didn't have to invade
Daily Reminder that the two bombs weren't enough
>>79322260
>Natives be damned.
Sweet. We'll be up there for your moose meat and syrup shortly. Got a problem with that? Fuck you.
>>79322097
Typical dutch cuck, knows more about united states navy than his own country
>>79322123
So if the Japanese weren't existing, what were they? Were they spooky specters?
>>79322292
I'm not advocating Marxism you fucking insane moron. I'm saying we all have NATURAL RIGHTS.
>>79322317
You have a natural right to try and obtain that something, that's what I'm saying.
>>79322364
If you can do it, go ahead. That's what I've been saying this whole time kek.
>>79321998
I think at the time, Japan was the most anti-Jew force of the east, so basically anything they asked for should have been supported. To my understanding, America, being the Jew loving black cock sucking faggots that we are, played to our Jewish interests.
We do have a moral obligation to stomp out a race of liars and usurpers from out banking institutions and government, as American constitutionalists, as it represents a threat to freedom, the love of whites, and what the founding fathers intended.
>>79320852
60% of the oil came from the US by 41 and that doesn't make it property of the US government.
Their "invasion" of China was as I explained forced. The Chinese were starving the Japanese out and the Soviets were aggressively buying up all the food they could while restructuring their agricultual production.
Sure Japan invaded and to be fair they had planned it but they were forced into it too early leaving them no option.
I mean are you seriously saying the Japanese had no right to ensure the population doesn't starve?
Also the Chian invasion story is bullshit as every ally of the US was holding on to colonial territory in China.
Why pretend any of this were about morals? Non of the participants ever had any and everyone knows it was about denying the emerging empires their growth so why cling to this cheap idea ones country were the moral arbiter?
>>79322260
and it's also natural to want to deprive people of the means of doing things you don't like, does that mean USA was justified in depriving Japan of it's oil?
>>79322460
You have natural right to someone else's resources? Because that's what this boils down to
Of course they had the right. Might and conquest is human nature. They have the right to attack anyone they want. They also have the right to get blown the fuck out by whoever they attack if they aren't strong enough to win.
They rightfully attacked us, and we rightfully fucked their navy and then nuked their nation in response.
>>79322460
>NATURAL RIGHTS
To other people's shit? You've got to be kidding me. There is no way you're this dense.
>>79322035
>Seeing as though you have a natural right to food
no you don't fuckface. nobody has a right to jackshit unless they make it themselves or buy it.
>>79322530
>does that mean USA was justified in depriving Japan of it's oil?
Of course they are retard, I've never said they weren't. I'm merely defending Japan's natural right to retaliate, but of course this to the average American means "Hey what the fuck, the US DINDU NUFFIN."
Stop taking things so personal.
>>79322491
That's a different question. I have nothing nice to say about FDR and the New Deal era Democrats. We chose the wrong side, and frankly, China was none of our business.
But the Canadian is pushing an idea that should be intolerable to all Americans -- that our Congress via the Commerce Clause can be overridden by foreign governments when foreign governments deem it necessary. It's akin to saying America is not a sovereign nation, but a virtual warehouse for the world. It's nonsense.
>>79322115
Natives fought and killed the fuck out of each other long before anyone came. They were 2000 years behind the Europeans technologically and fought a war they could not win so partnerships between tribes ended up forming.This then lead to less infighting and ultimately peace between several tribes. The smart ones ended up becoming trade partners with the French and English. Colonization was the best thing to happen to them.
>>79322355
ur right senpai I was memeing
>>79322565
this
>>79322555
You have a natural right to try and get those resources.
>>79322575
Fucking Christ, kill yourself. It's no wonder Americans are like 37 on the list of reading ability.
>>79319889
You have a better one?
>>79322647
>natural rights don't exist
kek
>>79320375
This.
>>79322743
>if I refuse to sell someone a loaf of bread who appears hungry that's well within my rights to do so, but it's his natural right under natural law to try and obtain that food from me.
Not to mention that man would have the big J on his side, but that's absolutely irrelevant.
>>79322737
I guess. You have the ability to try, but that doesn't make it a right.
>>79322526
im saying if the japs didn't want to get cut off from trade, maybe they shouldn't have been dicks to everyone around them.
>>79322999
It makes it a natural right, you just don't understand or agree with natural rights.
>>79322260
>implying the Jap gooks were just conquering to acquire land and not committing MASSIVE war crimes against the Chinese and Koreans, perhaps crimes not repeated since in the scope of human history.
>comfort women
>rape of nanking
>human vivisection
All confirmed events. Keep pretending Japs are sane human beings. They're quite fucked in the head.
>>79322794
you have a right to pursue things, you don't have a right to just take them you retarded leaf.
>>79322794
you have the Natural right to craft a fishing pole and catch some fish to eat, and you have the right to plant and harvest crops so you do not starve, you don't have the right to rob your neighbor because you are hungry and he refused to sell you his leftovers.
>>79322737
Might makes right. "Natural Rights" is just some retarded definition you came up with yourself that in no way reflects the international communities sentiments on the matter. You're a fucking retard.
You're welcome to try and take shit but when you get BTFO, you obviously had the right to sit down and shut the fuck up.
The USA was jewing Hitler so most Honorable Japs attempted to fuck them up.
>>79322980
1) natural law is bullshit
2) nobody has a right to steal shit regardless of the circumstances.
>>79322980
Shit tier comparison. Stupid fucking gook.
The Japs had other options. A) We weren't the only ones with oil. B) Japan could have met the price we demanded. They were capable of meeting it, and simply chose not to. They wanted to have their bread and they wanted to punch our neighbor in the face over and over even though we told them we'd sell them the bread if they stopped punching our neighbor.
You gooks have ruined Canada. Sad. Sad and subversive.
>>79320213
Why would we cry? We won?
Also, your nation surrounded two hours after German invasion.
>>79316887
>warcrime
Are you fucking retard? It was a perfect attack against a total military target.
The japs should have invaded Hawaii islands immediatly after Pearl Harbor.
>>79321588
Human Wave doctrine of combat vs Spearhead doctrine.
>>79322697
>a virtual warehouse for the world
"Commerce with all nations, alliance with none. That should be our motto" - Thomas Jefferson
>>79315809
No, they attacked British and American colony assats which resulted in embargo. They are Lucky the United States and Britain didn't declare war in the first place.
>>79321727
I don't know what to say.
My fucking god, you americans are really dumb as fuck.
We may be cucks, but at least we are not severely brain damaged.
>>79323047
you have incredibly bad taste and I should hope a bear eats you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpEGTSed1lI
What a war!
Everybody was invited, Only a couple of faggots didn't want to throw in.
>>79317625
>our oil reserves have been cut off while fighting a tough enemy
>it will result in defeat and a crippled economy
Their choices were
A. Lose the war and with that lots of land and colonies, get your economy FUCKED up resulting in famines and shit (100% chance of happening)
B. Try to attack those who hold up the embargo (50% chance of getting nuked twice and occupied 50% chance of winning and gaining total control over southeast Asia and the pacific and with that needed natural resources )
While you didn't directly force them you did indirectly force them. Backed them in a corner.
And if you believe that the government didn't know of the attack you're a top goy
>>79323738
Yeah, but he also imposed an embargo on the British and the French.
>>79320425
a country that is totally dependent for 90% of food and water 1. wont have a military and 2. should kneel whenever their masters ask them to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ0emX5RgZQ
>>79323787
You can live without Oil. You do not -need- oil to survive. It is not necessary for the human body to remain alive.
I could survive without it easily, as could everyone else in the world.
Are you trying to say that Oil is a necessity to life?
>>79323021
Well I guess you aren't gonna read what I write anyway so there is no use in defuting you again.
>>79324134
>refuting
>>79323938
How would halting the war of conquest in mainland Asia and corresponding mass genocide of Chinese women and children lead to famine of their homeland?
They were the fucking aggressor for fucks sake.
>>79323290
S T E A L T H
T
E
A
L
T
H
R A R E
A
R
E
>>79320425
Don't worry, buddy, I'm with you.
Bunch of retards in this thread.
>>79322980
I understand that comparison and I think your logic makes sense. But you're ignoring the reason as to why that person refused to sell the bread in the first place.
>>79323400
Agreed. Bush league tactics but legitimate Molitary strategy nonetheless
>>79323787
And his whole point was saying that the acquisition of oil through any means necessary is a natural right - because it's needed to live.
This is incorrect. Oil is not needed to sustain life. It's use is to make life easier.
>>79324061
See, that's exactly why almost every country of this world think you americans are stupid.
>>79323938
C. Stop butt fucking Southeast Asia, meet America's relatively reasonable demands, and get the oil.
>>79324692
Oh no, foreign monkeys think some shit. Whatever will we do?
>>79315809
FDR started the war. Treason.
treason.jpg
>>79323787
Well Krauts like you would be the type to support a genocidal, mass murdering regime like Imperial Japan. The argument in favor of Japan is basically equivalent to saying a felon has the right to assault a police officer because he is no longer able to buy guns.
>>79324437
Because it's his, I understand that completely don't worry.
>>79324361
Many thanks, I'm sorry you have to share a country with these people. At least you're not in Canada though, that's a plus.
>>79324692
Oil is essential to maintain a nation's power and quality of life in 2016. USA has fought a few wars over oil. We're relatively more aware than the world gives us credit for
>>79315809
"allowed"
lol
>>79324855
>>79324942
Jesus fucking christ, you are disgustingly stupid.
All you stupid dipshits are just good for one thing: Voting Trump.
But I guess you even can't get that thing managed.
>>79315809
A nation has the right to declare war and attack whoever it pleases. They have to deal with the consequences of their actions.
Also
>murrica
>questioning whether a nation has the right to have their military roll up and assail another nation
Pot calling the kettle black don't you think?
>>79321727
Until we find a better commodity to run....well, EVERYTHING, oil makes the world go 'round.
>>79325315
Go be asshurt somewhere else. Shouldn't you be more focused on your crumbling EU project or the ongoing invasion of Turkey in your "country"?
>>79324855
Well you are the one who have a monkey for president friendo
>>79325437
Don't bother, he tried to compare maple syrup to oil.
>>79324692
I don't think you get it.
Oil makes modern human life easier, but it is not necessary for survival. Yes, you need oil to drive your automobile from A to B, so you can work tirelessly and pay your taxes to get your goods. You need it for power, etc.
You are reliant on these little things, but you do not need them to live.
Yes, I get that to sustain the modern population, you need oil to harvest the crops to feed everyone or we will suffer from famine.
Well, my point is that life isn't all lovey dovey, and you don't need oil to live. You don't need electricity to live. You don't need automobiles to live. You don't need the government to live.
If you can't rely on yourself, then you have lost your humanity, and therefore you are worthless as a human being. Sure, you can contribute to a consensus of ideas to take an ideal currency. Sure, the general consensus of a community will crumble.
But humanity will live on. Because we do not need such things to live.
