The small marginalized left in America seems to be imploding. Chomsky and a few followers is calling for Bernie voters to hold their nose and vote for Queen Hillary, the hard left (Jeffrey St.Clair, Patrick Cockburn) are blasting him (quite justifiably IMO) that she's on many issues far to the right of Trump (far more militaristic) and only very marginally different on other issues. I personally don't know how you could justify a vote for Hillary.
>>79279245
she's a woman
>>79279245
also if you don't care about corruption (many blacks and hispanics and women don't, they expect it as a way for them to continue to be able to manipulate the white males in power in hopes of overthrowing them), then hillary seems like a sensible mainstream moderate where bernie is too far to the left, and trump is too far to the right.
Also, she is trying to remind voters of how much people liked her husband, and he was beloved by many.
>>79279481
How is she a "moderate"?
>>79279749
well she's functionally a neocon but marginally prochoice and prolgbt (even though she was against lgbt stuff for most of her career). Not saying its real, but thats the image she promotes is that she's not radical and won't remove the welfare system that women, blacks, and hispanics love so much or raise their taxes.
Socialism cannot spread in modern America. It is a relic of the 20th century.
AnCap is the future.
>>79279903
But in power she voted overwhelmingly to remove the welfare state and her husband was very much responsible for handing the economy over to the Goldman Sach's crowd. Are people literally that ignorant that they don't look past her rhetoric? These people would be the most harmed by a Clinton presidency.
>>79279245
>Chomsky
Can't this faggot bite the dust already? He's the archtypical leftist "intellectual". An educated, privileged, rich, white dude talking outside of his expertise, but held aloft as the font of wisdom himself.
He's a fucking linguist. His opinion on politics is just as valid as mine, or yours, or any other non-expert.
>>79280779
He criticizes the term "intellectual" and the highly politicized field of experts and says their opinions are as valid as yours and mine. You listen to someone because you feel they raise valid points and you question everything they say. If it holds up against what you find and empirical truth than they are worth listening to. The whole field of political and economic "experts" are highly politicized and most of simply uphold the dominant state ideology (overwhelmingly), most of them disregard empirical truths.
>>79279245
It doesn't matter. Shillary will get meme'd into office becasue of gibs me dats and muh stronk wimminz. We'll then see a situation similar to Germany here in the US but on a much worse level.
The left is marginalized? The last I checked they have every demographic except stupid white guys. And minorities are spewing out babies at a rate that deserves an ovation. A generation from now the right will be a political curiosity like the Whigs.
Sorry, dumb white guys you're in the process of being politically neutered.
>>79280079
It's so cute that they see it as a line
A straight forward easily attainable path
>>79280779
>white
He's the Jew-iest Jew to ever Jew
>>79281156
He literally just says what people want to here
If I truly cared I could pool all of the times he has been hypocritical
He argues like how the nazis describe jewish arguers
>>79281432
The left if we take it to mean those who truly represent the party of political change and even if we take it to mean the egalitarian party. The Democrats are very much for reinforcing the state corporate nexus and increasing the wealth and power of the few. In my opinion viewing the primary elections they're the more anti-democratic party also. They threw out the more popular candidate with the aid of the establishment media.
>>79281648
How so? Most people want to hear that things are fine and that they don't have to do anything to change things other than vote for some corporate backed politician who promises them nice things.
>>79281432
Most socialist/communist parties get barely any votes. The big "left wing" parties are just full of liberals and reformist social democrats like Sanders. Useless.
>>79280079
>democratic socialism
>people can devote their lives to fulfilling kinds of activities
I just got back from Cuba and I can you that this statement perfectly sums it up. Obviously not in the way democratic socialists think though.
Also, in regards to welfare-state capitalism, isn't a freer society one where people can own property instead of the government taxing it all away? I think these leeches should just move to or make their own socialist country instead of trying to bring capitalist nations down.
>>79282086
Learn the differences between personal property and private property.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property#Personal_versus_private_property
Socialism is still a bullshit lefty utopian nightmare, but it's important to be versed in the terminology if you're going to argue against them.
>>79281892
No they don't
Most people want to hear why their life is shit and how to fix it
Chomsky speaks to college kids and caters his views to them
>>79281759
so the left is inherently democratic?
I don't see it
The left rules all aspects of america
The Republicans have been controlled opposition for awhile
The left LIKES globalism at it's core and believes in an open bordered multicultural shithole
The only thing the left dislikes is corporations but then you can see them be completely hypocritical about that as well (see the left's reaction to brexit)
I just find it surprising that the left is surprised by the rising nationalist movements desu
It's like they're truly oblivious to the plight of the working class
>>79282086
>responsible for bringing capitalist nations down
You mean the people who run the society who've been eroding the social welfare system and robbing from social security programs, increasing taxes on the poor while cutting them for the rich?
>>79282420
I would personally mean them and the welfare queens
>>79282269
I appreciate the heads up, I was unaware of the distinction.
>>79279245
> falling for le chomsky meme
This guy has always been a crack pot. He thinks Western Civilization is the worst thing to ever exist and the third-world is peace-loving and honorable. It's like he's purposefully contrarian just to be an annoying kike.
>>79282420
You mean Hillary Clinton?
>>79282971
He just says what college kids want to hear
Thank the public school education system
>>79282420
If you're talking about bureaucrats and people who abuse the government's power/generosity, then yes.
The rich add much more value to society and pay much, much more in taxes. I agree taxes on the poor are much too high but I also think taxes on everyone else are. Government is huge and bloated - they are the enemy, not the citizenry.
>>79279245
Chomsky doesn't even vote.
>>79283374
> bloated government
I think a lot of that has to deal with bloated budgets with no independent auditing or accountability. If government departments need tax dollars for reasons, that's fine, but I expect itemized contracts, cost/benefit analysis, and a bidding process to be performed so that tax dollars are spent fairly.
Of all the blue team voters I know, only one even knows what the hell he's talking about enough to count as a lefty, and he's a pretty moderate and sensible one. All the rest vote team blue because they're on the blue team and everybody on the red team is evil.
>>79283785
The most bloated part of your government is the military, please pressure your government to SUBSTANTIALLY cut your governments military spending.
t. the rest of the world.
>>79279245
>Chomsky and a few followers is calling for Bernie voters to hold their nose and vote for Queen Hillary
Chomsky voting for the war candidate over the peace candidate is nothing new.
>>79284077
Is any candidate talking about seriously cutting the military budget?
>>79283374
>The rich add value to society
>The rich pay more in taxes
MMT disagrees. The rich are black holes of money. That's why they're called rich, and not "socially conscious investors."
>>79284220
Alas no. But I can understand that it's not exactly the top priority at the moment compared to other things, and also that reforming the existing spending would be more important at this juncture as we face an incumbent WWIII.
>>79284077
Fuck off.
We're spending $585 billion on our military this year. The only thing I'm in favor for is auditing the pentagon so we make sure we actually get $585 billion worth of shit instead of $300 billion of shit with $285 for executives and lobbyists.
>>79284077
I should say the military-state security apparatus which has been increasing rapidly despite no major global competitor since the Soviet Union collapsed (and actually the policy makers never viewed the Soviet Union as a threat if you read the internal documents).
>>79284576
What is the south china sea
>>79284525
>585 billion dollars
What the fuck is wrong with you people? You global enemies are two nations that have decaying equipment and armies who are still are stuck in the 1950's in terms of tech, one of which can't even hold it's state together and durka durkas who can only hit soft targets.
>>79285064
Well we spent $27T bailing out European banks, and the Clintons have a pretty good track record of giving away technology and supplies to our enemies, so maybe we should get our priorities straight.
>>79285064
We're compesnating for weaker allies. Who else is capable of discouraging aggression on the Korean peninsula?
Who else is capable of discouraging Chinese expansion in the south China sea? (they literally create islands by dumping earth on top of coral reefs)?
Who else is capable of leading the fight against ISIS?
Who else can be anywhere in the world in less than 24 hours to assist in military and/or humanitarian aid?
>>79285404
Not to mention she openly told everyone how many nukes we have despite literally nobody else on the planet doing the same
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/International/hillary-clinton-reveal-size-us-nuclear-arsenal/story?id=10539450
She needs to keep her mouth shut
>>79285404
Maybe they realize that those official enemies aren't even remotely a threat and that it's profitable to sell them equipment as a way of offloading a bit of the bloated amount instead of just destroying it.
>>79285840
Russia and China are not remotely a threat? Arming nutjob Islamic fanatics with MANPADs and then flooding them into the western world isn't a threat?
We're offloading F35s pretty good on our "NATO allies" which at least is not a threat even it might be graft.
>>79280779
>He's a fucking linguist.
actually that allows him to scientifically criticize and take apart the media propagandizing, rather than just appeal to SJW emotions
>>79285797
North Korea is like that little dog that is beaten and looks like Brendan Fraser but who growls and makes a lot of noise because they're JUST but realizes their shit would get fucked up beyond belief even by South Korea and Japan alone. You literally just reinforce the ruling faction of North Korea by hostility. It's insane that China wants to protect itself when being totally surrounded by hostile military bases with an expansion of the nuclear arsenal and a government which has committed itself to the development and USE of smaller nuclear weapons in conflicts. Could you imagine if the show was on the other foot?
>>79279245
>Patrick Cockburn
He is hard left? And American?
>>79281922
This. The Democrats as a whole don't even reach the social democracy level.
>>79279245
Chomsky is calling for a Hillary vote.
Holy shit...
>>79286010
I see Russia FIGHTING the Islamist allies you arm.
>>79286240
dubs the bomb stays in /po/
>>79286504
Indeed, it's a fucked up situation, and I for one thank them for doing some of the dirty business we're not supposed to be allowed to get away with publicly, along with whoever it was on our side that negotiated that situation for our mutual self-interest.
>>79286341
>You literally just reinforce the ruling faction of North Korea by hostility.
We're not doing jack shit. We would leave if Kim and Fat boy weren't into a ballistic missile and nuke program.
> Could you imagine if the show was on the other foot?
The reason why things are the way they are today took centuries to get this way.
>>79279245
Cockburn lol.
>>79282971
>le anti civilization contrarian leftist meme
>>79286554
close one pablo
>>79285064
Our country is dependent on using our military to prop up our global empire. We'd be shut out of africa, middle east, eastern europe, oceania and asia without a military presence there. Would Japan be our satellite state without military presence? South Korea? Saudi Arabia? etc etc.
Not saying I support this dynamic but it's the way it is until the US overextends and gets fucked up or hits a recession that devastates its ability to support its network of bases etc.
>>79286240
Bomb /g/
>>79286692
You're government is refusing to destroy it's nuclear arsenal and is in fact increasing it's arsenal and has committed to building smaller nukes for smaller regional conflicts any rational government would be arming to the teeth to defend itself against you. If I was North Korea or Iran I certainly would be, you'd be insane not to.
>>79279245
Chomsky is saying vote for Hillary? I knew he was a gate-keeping neoliberal. It's undeniable now.
>confirmed war criminal versus loud businessman who says he wants to be more isolationist
>LOL war criminal please, so anarchist XDDD
the left has been bankrupt for half a century at this point. i almost think the recent bizarre peacenik nigh-suicidal roll-over-and-die tendencies were a plot by the capitalists to destroy the threats to their power.
consider how militant, dangerous and tooth-and-claw the 19th and early 20th century leftists were, and just look at them now. they've voluntarily surrendered all of their power and now merely whine from the sidelines about made-up horseshit instead of rising up and smashing things.
regardless of your views on the righteousness of their cause, anyone that actually looks at the left can't help but feel sorry for how pathetic they've become in recent years.
>SHE'S A SHE
>SHE'S OLD
>SHE'S A BABY BOOMER
etc
>>79285840
They're a threat because sooner or later when the US tries some regime change bullshit they're going to run into shitskins with chinese or russian tech that fuck them up and draw the US into a catastrophe.
At least that's how I imagine it will go.
>wahhhhhh le fukkin trump
This is not in response to OP, but who are all of these anti-Trump faggots on /pol/? It's so obnoxious. And watch
>WOW UHHH, ALT RIGHT NERD, DO U NEED A SAFE SPACE
Yeah. It's pure irony. I didn't coin the term, did I?
>>79286984
It's not like they're going to say
>oh gee look the US is destroying it's arsenal, let's forget about this silly nuclear program
Now, I agree with you that it would be better not to spend so much and to have this constant escalation of tensions, but you have to have a realistic solution.
>>79279245
>I personally don't know how you could justify a vote for Hillary.
OMG! It's 2016, shitlord!
Get with the times!
College kids in the prime of their lives to be edgy, "smart", cynical, and contrarian.
Chomsky gives them those themes in spades.
Durrrrr.
I might as well go to a crossfit and tell them how awesome it is to be paleo and get sweaty.
>>79286984
>You're government is refusing to destroy it's nuclear arsenal
Gee I can't imagine why.
>>79281472
And yet he's the worst Jew possible: self-hating Israel bashing subhuman.
>>79286984
Fucking hell you're ignorant to geopolitical news.
China has a nuclear program. China has a space program (this means they are ballistic missile capable). Their nuclear program is extremely secretive. We're building our stockpile as a deterrent to whatever it is they've got. Its not unreasonable to believe that they are going to be a nuclear weapons capable world power in the next few decades. Thus, building our stockpile is a deterrent because mutually assured destruction.
>>79287177
Actually that was what they were saying in the wake of the Soviet Union collapsing and even before that. Iran was literally begging the US to make the middle east a nuclear free zone and agreeing to halt it's civilian nuclear energy program to get such a thing in place. It's why you have disarmament agreements and external/neutral monitoring agencies. The US has neutered such a program and has committing to increasing it's arsenal and in turn forcing it's opponents to do the same.
>>79279245
I wish that this guy would just stick to linguistics.
>>79287411
You do know China has had nuclear weapons for a long time now, right? They tested their nuclear weapons in the 60s.
>>79284164
He never endorsed Ho, Castro, or Mao. He pointed out dishonest reporting about the Khmer Rouge, and despite the fact that he has repeatedly voiced disapproval of the regime, propaganda outlets have for decades been pushing a narrative that he supports Pol Pot, and people like you have been eating it up.
>>79287696
read >>79287411
> China has a nuclear program.
>>79287549
I'm OK with working toward a nuclear free zone in the ME. Mrs. Clinton, among others, has hardly been a positive force in that regard. But it has to start with some kind of useful agreements as you point out, not from us just disarming ourselves to engender global chaos by pulling out of American Primacy without stable alternative.
>>79287696
So does Israel which is committed to external aggression and you've given nukes to Islamist Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
>>79287965
We've also basically given them to Iran. Not to mention part of this stupid Iran deal was to make sure they'd have the water supplies needed to run their nuclear program.
It's all kinds of fucked up, but fixing that doesn't start with us chopping off our own balls.
>>79287808
read:
>Its not unreasonable to believe that they are going to be a nuclear weapons capable world power in the next few decades.
A "nuclear program" doesn't necessarily mean the atom bomb since nuclear reactors are used for energy. China has been "nuclear weapons capable" for decades.
>>79287965
You've given nukes to Saudi Arabia, just digest that for a moment, this is a batshit insane Wahhabist government, engaged in military aggression on it's borders, and the biggest sponsor of fundamentalism world wide. That is batshit insanity.
>>79288152
Okay, let me rephrase what I said, but differently.
We know China has nuclear weapons and the ability to create ballistic missles (because they have a space program). That means their nukes have to be taken seriously because while they tested nukes in the 1960s they had very little, if any means of a delivery system to get those warheads from point A to point B (that would mean ICBMS).
China is very secretive about their nuclear weapons. We know very little about their tech or their stockpile. Thus it is not unreasonable to believe that as they emerge as a world power (especially with a developing navy) that they are also strengthening their nuclear and ballistics program.
>>79288071
Chopping off your balls =/= decreasing the military industrial state that has only served to further increased the threat against you. It's only a matter of time before a biological or nuclear weapon is used against a soft target in your country and there is almost nothing you could to stop it outside from instituting total police state. If I was Iran or North Korea with small nukes on my borders and a nation which has committed to using them I would be working to developing such a capability and planting agents in your country to carry out such a mission.
>>79280079
Not all Fascism is Nazism.
Fascism is to Christianity as Nazism is to Baptist. Nazism is just a school of Fascism.
>>79279245
I'm voting for Bernie.
Hitler was right.
>>79288617
Same goes for China or Russia. Especially Russia which is increasing being targeted by the neocon military state. Russia needs to develop such a capability in the wake of hostile actions against it.
>>79288617
Oh, indeed. From what I've heard, it wouldn't even cost that much to do a better job of securing our electric grid, which is catastrophically vulnerable at present.
I think we really very much agree on the nature of the problem. One of my favorite Trump themes, for instance, is getting our protectorates to pay for the protection, and the general notion of not spending money where it doesn't count. How he might be able to deliver on those ideas remains to be seen, but I think that's very much in line with your general suggestion that we ought not to spend so much money on something so counterproductive.
>>79286240
/lgbt/
>>79286240
/lit
>>79279245
Chomsky is actually pretty aware and sane, the difference between him and me is that he is not a nihilist whereas I am, and he believes in doing what is best for the greatest number of people which I do not. (I get what I can for me and mine)
I go for quality over quantity in people, Chomsky believes in going for quality only after everyone's survival is assured.
I think he choked on the Nihilism Pill, and stipulates that there is a purpose to all this human cheese/yeast/whatever.
It makes him a yeast farmer.
