cont from >>79157262
Ignoring production and based simply on technical innovation and piloting skill, what country was the best at air warfare in WW2?
First for Bubi did nothing wrong.
>>79180730
It's not really a matter of debate if you reduce it by that many variables: Japan. They had the best pilots in the world in 1941. Most hours in the air. They all dieded by 1943 though.
One of the reasons people think the axis had better pilots is that there were fewer axis planes by the time they were fighting the West. It's hard to shoot down planes when there aren't any in the sky and it's easier when there are 100s of bombers and fighter escorts to pick your battle and score a hit. That's not my interpretation, that's from the mouth of a German ace. I forget his name though.
The winners.
>>79180730
Erich Hartmann, Germany, yes!
>>79180730
Germany, just take a look at Pulkzerstoerer and Schwalbe
i dont know if this was the one i was thinking about, but its pretty fucking ugly
![He_112_2015[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XxZ99a1.jpg "He_112_2015[1].jpg")
Does anyone know more about this, and why it got passed ?
I did some light reading, and from what I recall bot on tests and is Spain it outperformed BF109 in basically every category, but Willy had considerable political pull, and whispered some sweet words to Hitlers ears.
It was decided that with new idea of standarization, Heinkell was to produce only bombers, Messershmitt fighters, and so BF109 won the competition.
>>79181188
This is the more retarded thing I've ever heard.
>>79181188
>They had the best pilots in the world in 1941.
The German pilots were also very good in 1941. The main difference is that the Germans still had the best pilots in 1945, unlike the Japanese.
>>79181417
Bf 109 was easier to produce and He-112 had complicated wings, which made tipped the scales on Willy favour.
>>79181417
As far as I know it was about flight characteristics and being unable to operate 20mm cannon in it's current version.
>>79181449
You should read more. You'll learn lots of retarded shit.
>>79181625
Um but the He-112 was first that mounted 20mm and it fired through prop.
Flight characteristics of He-112 were better due lower wing loading. Bf-109 was harder to fly but cheaper to bulid.
>>79181346
Not bad. There is also this American thing
>>79181602
>>79181820
I had a feeling you would respond, thnx
>>79181776
>top scoring Japanese ace: 36 kills
>top scoring German ace: 352 kills
>top scoring American ace: 40
>top scoring Russian ace: 64
>top scoring British ace: 40+ (total unkown)
Next you'll tell me that the HE 113 was the best fighter.
>>79182367
>He-113
What is that
Nice numbers but you know that these numbers doesn't tell anything? USA had rotation system and German pilots were simply smaller group and they had possibility to rack up kills on them B-17's and IL-2's.
Japan pilots flown on A6M which had zero protection so they died easily. Add to that retarded Kamikaze attacks, which completely wiped out these experienced pilots and air battles weren't so intensive as in Europe
>>79182367
Not sure if bait or just falling for the ace meme.
>>79181346
Makes me think of the B-24 I took a ride in recently.
>Crawling under the pilot past the nose gear
>Nose gear has a zero-lock door
>10,000 foot drop to ground is a foot away from me
>crawl into glass nose to look about
My ass clench levels are pretty fucking high. Seeing that thing just makes me pop out a diamond.
>>79183150
Should I post more? (Plenty will just be stills from video I captured.)
>>79183136
He is probably retarded and have no clue how pilots operated.
>>79182345
No prob, WW2 is so far the only thing that made me interested for such long time.
>>79183150
Cool story. Sounds spooky. What is a zero-lock door? Does that mean if the pilot didn't fully raise the gear your weight could push the door open and out you go?
>>79183313
>>79183150
Post more if you have more
>>79183313
Make some album and just post link.
Air-to-air combat during continuation war
>Finland lost 85 planes
>Soviets lost 1600
>Pic related had 128 air victories
>>79183544
>juutilainen
some finn told me that means jew, was he joking?
Finland by far.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_aces_from_Finland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Air_Force#Winter_War_1939.E2.80.9340
>>79183313
Is that a bomb sight? Did you peak into it?
My grandpa used to train people to use those but in a B-25 which is a light bomber. He spooked gooks with it in Rabaul!
>>79183313
Post video?
>>79183644
No, it only sounds similar. Juutalainen means jew.
>>79180730
I'll go straight, I say USA.
The germans didn't have an operative heavy bomber and that lack of it compromised their bombing capacity compared to the allies.
The B29 is the representation of US superiority.
>>79183150
>>79183313
Did you pay or do you know somebody that took you along.
>>79183425
The doors have no locking pins. They're spring loaded. Not an official term just what I called it. IE: If you have to manually drop the gear, the doors won't "stop" it... so if you crawl onto those doors - out you go .
>>79183468
>>79183461
I grabbed a webm maker for Premiere Pro, Ill try to get some clips out.
>>79183062
propaganda aircraft made up by the Germans
>>79183062
>>79183136
OP also included technical innovation, which the Japanese had very little of.
>>79183813
B17 was the backbone, I know it, still, we are comparing top of the class aircafts regardless of the production/service history.
>>79183903
Nice how did those engines roar tho? It must have been sweet sound.
>>79183150
you flew in Witchcraft? How much did it cost?
I've been in Memphis Belle, it was pretty cool. Absolutely loud as fuck though.
USA hands down. Not only could the US manufacture good planes, but they could mass produce them. In my opinion, the Germans had better planes, but the US outnumbered them just like they outnumbered them on the ground.
The Brits deserve an honorable mention, but that is mainly due to the UK's geographical hegemony at the time.
>>79184018
You mean the He-100 that was supposed to be it.
Some Ki-61 tested gyroscope that took into account also speed, automatic flaps on N1K.
But yeah, Germans were most innovative.
Germany
Landing, loud audio:
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJEeWG2g_Z8
>>79183711
>>79184043
I'm probably going to regret linking my videos to /pol/ somehow. Here is one of the ones I uploaded. I never got around to editing them all because I cancelled my home Premiere subscription. I'm currently at work.
>>79183866
>>79184233
Birthday gift. I know some friendly people. Was like a $400 ticket I think? Worth it... my one regret was I focused to much on trying to get video for sharing that I really didn't get to enjoy it as much as I should. I plan to go back up next time they roll through. They also have 2 seater mustang that they will let you fly...for like $1200 or 2500, I forgot.
Mustang:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWgbwwh1AzM
>>79183468
>>79183461
I'll post what I can. Problem is, as I said, I never fully logged or edited all my video. So Ill try to get clips uploaded where I find them real quick. I took to few photos inside, was to busy doing video and trying to fuck around with a GoPro.
>Regret
>>79184727
Nice vids, especially that B-24 sounds nice.
>>79184727
I'm jelly
I toured Texas raiders a couple of weeks ago and Thunderbird years ago, no rides yet though.
USA air doctrine won the war. Air force command was able to recognize their assets and what was working, something the Germans made a mess of.
While not super flashy, innovations in flying farther, higher, carrying more ordnance, and bombing accurately are huge innovations none the less. Notice how the entirety of German production switched to interceptors post 1943.
>>79183150
>>79183313
>>79183903
>>79184727
That looks amazing, anon. Im a pilot and the one thing i want to do before i die is learn how to fly a ww2 era aircraft. B17 preferred.
But those sort of things are very uncommon. I saw a ad for a class and a ride on a B25 but never a B17
>>79184310
>"Germans were most innovative."
>Couldn't make higher than 100 octane aviation fuel, mostly used 87 octane
>Could only increase aircraft engine power by using water injection
>70% of logistics on the Eastern Front was horse-drawn
>Keep their best pilots on the front (and getting them killed) instead of sending them back home to train new pilots
>Couldn't make proper transmissions for their tanks
>>79185211
It is 100% better in person, less mic distortion.
>Didn't wear ear protection
>Spent days going "What?"
>>79185221
Texas Raiders are based too. Ride when you can, these historical planes won't be around forever. One day the FAA will just say "No, you can't. To old, to risky to give public rides."
I took a lunch break, editing a highlight reel for you guys on work Premiere.
>>79180730
Even ignoring production. This is still an extremely open ended and unsolvable question. You would have to restrict the question to time period and a specific theater of operations as well as mission circumstances.
For example, I can say the USAAF trumps Luftwaffe. But that certainly wasn't true in 1938 as compared to 1945. What exactly are we talking about here? The USN air wing trumps any of the European air forces including the USAAF when it came to anti-ship operations. The Germans are really experienced early in the war at close air support against ground targets. The RAF during the Battle of Britain was skilled in interception.
Planes are built for specific roles. You want high altitude fighters, tactical bombing, strategic bombing? We can spout about jets all day but it doesn't amount to anything in terms of the overall effectiveness of a country's air force given how late and non-proliferate they were.
Not even in counting doctrine differences and changes here over time periods.
Either way, the thread is an impossible question. Narrow the circumstances OP.
>>79185563
I'd argue that they are actually fairly safe, so long as the airframe is in good shape. The warbirds that tour around get crazy amounts of maintenance, and with the bombers, they're all multi engine. Also they only fly during good weather.
>>79185563
>>79185510
>>79185221
>>79185211
Shit I'm a retard. I forgot I had raw footage unlisted.
Take off and ascent, I had to be seated. We were seated ON THE FLOOR. No seats. Just sitting backwards on the floor in the back of the plane. The more elderly started their flight in the nose. Not many people wanted to walk the bomb-bay-cat-walk at 10,000 feet for some reason (pic related, but at 10,000 feet with doors closed.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVzbP3wV18M
Gunner Door shots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9QEmzVKGp0
Will see if I can't get a few more clips thrown together real quick like.
>>79185982
Oh for sure, but in 40 years? 60? Will the parts exist? Will the frames just become to fatigued? Yeah they get maintenance. Lots. I sat there and watched them do it for hours. Was worth it too.
>>79185525
>kommandogerat first primitive computer that handled setting of prop pitch and fuel settings
>minengeschoss rounds which carried more explosives then other nations produced rounds for aircraft weaponry
>MG-131 small and compact machine gun
>First mass produced jets
>Guided air to ground missiles
>Guided ground to air missiles
>Primitive radar guided AAA batteries defending cities
>First revolver cannon
>GM-1 increasing performance at high altitudes
Many more can be added.
>>79185563
>>79186150
Lucky bastard. Shame in my country there aren't such air shows and museums like in yours.
>>79186322
The B-17s will be flying for another hundred years. The engine they used was the same as the DC-3.
Those old engines all low compression as fuck, like 6:1, and fairly simple. I'm sure if something really went wrong it wouldn't be all that hard to make new parts, given that somebody was willing to pay for it.
Airframe is really the main concern, and also the topic I know the least about, unfortunately.
>>79186150
Also, holy shit. Those engines sounds really fucking brutal.
>>79186989
Fatigue is a bitch for any mechanical part as an engineer myself. Whether it be the frame or engine. There comes a time in which you just need to build the entire frame back again which is just building a new plane. No plane will ever fly for a hundred years.
>>79186456
On the A2G missiles...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_(guided_bomb)
This fucker was self-guided by radar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blohm_%26_Voss_BV_246
But this fucker was an ARM the Germans built but never operationally used. Homed in on RADAR emission.
I still love the German ASHM, Henschel Hs 293.
>>79187376
Yeah... and again I didn't take ear protection because "hur real experience!" Rang for bloody days.
>>79186989
Sorry man but, >>79187584 is right. Eventually the frame will just say "no more" and be grounded. So... really, save up, find out where they are, take a flight. Worth it if you truly love the experience.
Oh and Witchcraft saw action. She flew for the RAF in India against Japan. Then it went to India. Pajeet let it rot for a few years before restoring and flying it until the late 60s. Then ended up in the US and been flying since the 80s if I recall.
TLDR: She has a lot of flight hours on the frame. Its been patched and restored plenty... but I don't think it has another 20-40 years. Frame-wise.
>>79187691
Huh, didn't heard about this Bat bomb, that's something new, thanks.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_X
This one was guided by bombardier and it was actually used couple of times, until they found out it can be easily disrupted by shooting down bomber.
RIP your ears but at least you had unique possibility to fly in such legendary plane.
>>79188403
Dude, just read this while looking up the ROBIN - a TV guided bomb that USN developed.
http://bathead.com/asmbat.html
"However, Burrus Skinner convinced the US Navy that birds had great potential as a jam-proof missile-guidance system.
Pigeons were trained to peck at an image of a target projected by a lens onto a screen in the missile's nosecone – these signals then corrected missile's flight-path. Pigeons produced excellent results & were reliable under stressful conditions including extremes in cold, vibration, acceleration, pressure, & noise.
Due to no fault of Skinner’s (nor of his pigeons), the Navy cancelled the program early in 1945. "
>Pigeon guidance works
>Pigeon guided bombs
Oh fuck my sides. They hurt.
>>79189136
Oh yeah I heard about it, somewhere in TV they even showed footages of these pigeons.
Heard USA also tried cat bombs(but passed out because of G overloads) and bat bombs which would set on fire them paper homes in Japan cities which were very effective.
>>79189477
Bat bombs were fucking crazy, but pretty genius.. got canned because of Manhattan project.
>>79190638
Luckily for bats, less luckily for Japanese folks.
