>be me
>be on rooftop bar in Manhattan with gf and friends
>one of her fiends is a fat liberal feminist who's #withher
>starts discussing how we should have stricter gun control (no more AR-15's)
>decide to argue back without revealing my power level
>"legal gun owners aren't the problem, criminals are"
>"Orlando shooter was a legal gun owner!!"
>"yes, but he was also a terrorist. Paris has some of the strictest gun laws in the world and Muslim terrorists were able to get black market guns and do a mass shooting"
>"well if he didn't have a gun, then it would never have happend!"
>"he would have found a way to get a gun illegally. There are millions of illegal firearms that pour into this country over our borders. In fact, most shootings are done by gang members with illegal guns"
>"that's not true!! I took a class on criminal justice and most of the guns used in homicides are legal!!!"
>"that's not true, do you think gang members and other criminals go to a gun store where they have to pass a background check to get a traceable gun that has serial numbers on it?"
>"No they get them from their dads and uncles!"
>at this point I am fed up with this and a little drunk, so I ended up slipping and revealing my power level slightly
>"they don't have dads or uncles!"
>"YOU SOUND SO RACIST HOLY SHIT!!!!$&&'"
Never argue with liberals. It's utterly pointless
Seems somebody got BTFO and came cry in /pol/.
>>79055661
If calling someone racist constitutes a BTFOing then BREXIT would have failed. Go back to your favela
>>79055267
Have you checked if there are statistics available which show where the illegal guns used in homicides and other crimes come from? Maybe she is right.
>>79055267
You know why it is a waste of time to argue with leftists? Because if they accepted facts they wouldn't be leftists.
>>79055267
Bumping for self interest.
Can we get more green text stories of arguing with liberals?
>>79056344
This desu. Report back when you've educated yourself on the matter objectively. Both you and her made bad arguments void of facts.
>>79055267
She is more racist than you, since she autommatically assumed you are talking about blacks.
>>79056344
If they are legally purchased guns used by someone that is not the owner to commit a crime, that makes them illegal guns.
Also while I'm here
> be me
> claim brexit could be the most significant event of our lifetime.
> liberal idiot responds with "but what about Trump!" Because they don't have anything of value to add.
> this happened twice in one day in two different conversations
> ugh, armchair politics in normieville, kill me
>>79057234
I tried to find facts backing up the illegal gun claim. It's very difficult but common sense tells me it's true. I think google is run by Jews and suppressing this info.
Just googling "Percentage of illegal firearms used in homicides in the United States" doesn't find you anything
>>79055946
>If calling someone racist constitutes a BTFOing
If you get triggered like in the case so yes.
The legality question isn't something that's published but it seems common sense that illegal guns are used in the majority of shooting deaths
However, the mass shooters are using legally obtained firearms. This is why that thought is so hard to argue against.
Just cite the number of gang related deaths and say that none of those guns are legally owned. That's a big enough percentage to at least........really make you think.....
I don't argue with liberals because it's like having a discussion with kids.
>>79057503
But isn't that exactly a strong argument against gun ownership? If owners give away their legally purchased guns to people with a criminal background (like the opponent of OP claimed) you get exactly the loophole that liberals fear. They will demand more firm background checks, weapons locked away all the time etc.
Of course it's really dumb of owners to lend or give away their weapons but a background check cannot guarantee you, that this will not happen
>>79058214
What you want is to say: Guns are bad, there are too many variables that would result in deaths, so it's better to ban them all together.
Some things cannot be regulated, you can make a law saying that a gun owner cannot give their guns to another person without a background check, but it's impossible to enforce this.
>never said a single thing about race
>get called a racist
>>79057293
This.
This just proves that they already know the truth and are in denial, in which case no amount of facts will convince them otherwise.
>>79058102
Maybe you could argue against the mass-shooting thing that those occur a lot more frequently in the recent years. The 2nd Amendment is much older though. So other factors have to be taken into account to answer the question how to stop/reduce mass shootings
>>79058214
The point of the whole story is that the guns which are being used to commit the majority of gun related crimes in the US (I believe) are illegal guns. If they are not illegal guns, then gang bangers are getting the guns from the male father figures in their life (there are no older male father-like figures in their life hence joining a gang)
Pointing out the obvious makes me racist
>>79058469
I share your opinion on this. Liberals however do not. They wilI probably argue that you could easily reduce the amount of illegals guns available to criminals by imposing stricter gun laws/banning gun ownership.
>>79058214
>If owners give away their legally purchased guns to people with a criminal background
Raise the penalties on doing so instead of taking away everyone's guns.
>>79055267
>"they don't have dads or uncles!"
>"YOU SOUND SO RACIST HOLY SHIT!!!!$&&'"
Next question should have been "why is it racist?" and watch how spaghetti spilling.
By the way mass shooting have only gone up because they've recently defined a mass shooting as 5 or more people killed, meaning gang shootings now count. Without it they would be at an all time low, and with it they're
still at an all time low! Wow!
>>79055267
at least you didn't just nod and say nothing, and fat lib friend got butthurt, so it was worth it
>>79055267
>there are millions of illegal firearms that pour into this country over our borders.
That's just factually incorrect.
>>79059183
She actually followed up with
>"I DON'T HAVE A DAD HE DIED WHEN I WAS 9 AND IM NOT A GANGBANGER!!!!"
That's when I said fuck it
>>79059265
Well there we have a good counterargument. Do you have a source available? Thanks
>>79059103
There's no obligation for an individual to check the backgrounds if they are selling their personal firearm, only if they are a gun dealer. And yes, there is a difference and it's very important.
>>79059427
To be fair I think I said thousands at the time. I was just hastily greentexting this story I remembered
>>79058953
Like >>79057503 said: If one gives away his legally purchased gun to anyone (without paperwork i guess) this gun is automatically seen as "illegal", isn't it?
>>79056344
most gun homicides are committed by gang members with past felonies
they aren't getting guns legally
>>79059460
Should have just said that her not having a dad caused her to become a fat feminist pig.
All these people have daddy issues, whether it's a gangbanger or a trigger banger.
>>79059427
[[citation needed]]
>>79055267
being absolutist about is stupid. its about looking at the general trends (ie statistics) you cant prevent every bad event through legislation but you CAN reduce them hugely
>>79060828
That's not how this works. OP made the claim, he would have to back it up.
>>79060407
Yes, of course. But every illegal weapon was once purchased legally and due to lax gun laws got sooner or later in the hands of criminals. That's what liberals will tell you. No legal guns --> no or at least less illegal guns available for criminals.
>>79057293
THIS THIS THIS
You can push a liberal to go full White Man's Burden if you debate them long enough
You're a faggot, OP.
When you argue with these people you don't go on the defensive. The reason they bring up guns is because they know they can win a lot of ground in that area and get the most credibility when arguing with you.
Instead of talking about guns you should immediately go on the offensive. Ask her why she thinks people owning guns is bad, but supporting a candidate who got hundreds of thousands of muslims killed is good.
You put her on the defensive. Just say fuck the guns, how about she explains her shitty opinions. Make her squirm as she's struggling to come up for reasons to support Hillary Clinton. Don't say you support gun owners or that you support Trump. Just go on the offensive.
Have you learned nothing? Why the fuck are you even hear? I bet you think you're '''''''red pilled'''''''' yet you don't even know how to win an argument against a leftie. They're smarter than you.
>>79060828
he is kind of right kind of wrong
most people think about guns coming from mexico but most of the time we give guns to mexico
however we did have an issue with a senator smuggling in guns from over seas. it was someplace like the phillipines iirc
>>79061065
yeah but that is a stupid argument because guns can be bought more than once and selling to a felon is illegal no matter how it is done, buying a gun to sell it right away is illegal, going across state lines to buy a handgun is illegal unless it gets sent back to a gun store in your original state, and stealing guns is already a very serious offense.
liberals are just retarded and don't know the laws
>>79059549
FBI statistics and police response, but showing either to a liberal will just trigger them and say the police are racist.
>>79061065
oh and if you want evidence of more guns /= more deaths you can look at the gun homicide rate of california compared to nevada. pretty similar rate but Nevada has some of the most lax gun laws while California has some of the strictest
they say California could just go to Nevada to buy guns but again that is illegal.
Why do people post shit like this? Who gives a fuck? Do you expect us to praise or cheer for you?
>>79061307
Millions of guns is certainly inaccurate. Most of the guns that come from over seas may end up in the black market, but they don't start out that way.
And yea, by far most the guns go down to Mexico, the ones that come up are probably accidentally left in the vehicles, kind of like when they find drugs being smuggled into Mexico on occasion, it's usually someone's fuck up. Drugs come up, money and guns go down.
>>79055267
>rooftop bar in Manhattan
>gf
>friends
You are the cancer, please kill yourself
PS; shouldn't you be posting this on normiebook?
>>79061653
well I don't know the exact number of guns being smuggled it but yeah its likely not millions
I was just commenting that guns do get smuggled in and the rate would go up if guns were banned since it becomes more profitable to do so
>>79061478
You are right:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
Thanks for pointing that out
>>79060924
What legislation would you suggest?
>>79055267
noice
>>79061821
>rate would go up if guns were banned since it becomes more profitable to do so
That's an actual argument you should be using. You have to be smart about it.
Put them on the spot.
Instead of going full pro-gun just ask her what she thinks about the war on drugs. Probe her what she thinks about it. Then you drop the bombshell by comparing drugs to weapons. They will not be able to defend themselves without coming off as hypocrites.
>>79057744
He's not triggered, he's just annoyed
>>79061143
I could easily go on the offensive if I wanted to but that would risk alienating a lot of the people who are friends with me. These were my gf's friends but still
>>79055267
Here, say something to this retard.
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/who-remembers-good-old-days.464938/page-18#post-14351606
"Very very true.
Lexington, where I live, is not really your typical lily white suburb, but we have relatively few Black families living here. (We do have many Asian and Indian families though.) It helps that we have a METCO program, which by most accounts has been successful for 50 years, and has exposed both inner city and surburban kids of different ethnic and economic backgrounds to each other.
Even though we are not a religious family, I have been considering taking my daughter into Roxbury or Dorchester on a Sunday to attend a church service, so that she can get some firsthand, direct exposure to the beauty of African-American culture (and to likely hear some of the most intense, heartfelt music on this planet)."
>>79062386
Sure except progressives don't know about economics
they would just say you are wrong and they aren't the same because they want drugs legal and guns illegal
>>79059806
If they knowingly transfer a gun to someone they know to be unable to own a gun that is a very serious offense in the united states. So are straw purchases.
>>79062159
also on that chart DC is the highest murders and gun murders
also the lowest gun ownership in the country
>>79062663
You've got it completely backwards.
If she attacks your views and you have to justify them that makes people think of you as the odd one with weird views.
If you go on the offensive and point out the bad shit Hillary has done you will not be alienated. You have to put them on the stop and when they can't answer the questions you simply turn to someone else and go ''can you BELIEVE THIS???''. Boom. You just made everyone alienate this person. They will back down.
>>79059806
you don't have to but it is still very illegal to sell a firearm to a felon
and you have to check their drivers license because selling a handgun to a person from another state and giving it to them at the time of transaction is also very illegal
>>79055267
>be you, a conservative
>be dating the fat ugly girl of the bunch
>lose argument when confronted with statistics
>write unconvincing vague thread on /pol
>>79062805
Who is talking about economics? Stop thinking like you're talking to right wingers, retards.
These people don't care about numbers, statistics or anything as boring as facts.
Here's a question that is far more effective than anything your peanut brain can come up with
>Weed, heroin and cocaine are illegal. Does that stop people from buying them? If I wanted to score some heroin right now how hard do you think it would be?
Done. They can't answer.
>>79055661
first post best post
>>79055267
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/06/zero-correlation-between-state-homicide-rate-and-state-gun-laws/
Good article related to this from a source the left will accept.
>>79062948
Must be because of all those dads and uncles giving their guns to their kids
>>79055267
based Bismark knew this
>>79063347
The reason it gets more expensive and becomes profitable is because of basic supply and demand.
which is economics.
again they want drugs to be legal and guns to be illegal they will find a way to warp reality to fit their point
>>79063608
>DC
>fathers and uncles
>>79055946
spbp
>>79062931
Yes, but they are under no obligation to check their background. Obviously selling (or transferring ownership by some other means) to someone you know is a felon is against the law.
>>79063083
>and you have to check their drivers license because selling a handgun to a person from another state and giving it to them at the time of transaction is also very illegal
It is illegal to sell to sell to someone who lives out of state without going through an FFL holder, but you do not have to check their driver's license, not on a federal level anyways, I couldn't say on a state by state basis.
>>79062948
Yeah, i noticed that, too. What are the reasons? It just can't be the high proportion of blacks in the demographic alone
>>79063252
Not that you will believe me but my girlfriend is 23 white 5'10" 125 lbs and a straight dime, but care to mention what statistics were listed in that story?
>>79063587
guns used in homocides in cities with strict gun laws are easily carried in from gun-friendly states next door.
>>79064060
>knows how much his girlfriends weighs
Lol
>>79063874
>It is illegal to sell to sell to someone who lives out of state without going through an FFL holder, but you do not have to check their driver's license, not on a federal level anyways, I couldn't say on a state by state basis.
you are right I should have said you SHOULD because it is against the law if you accidentally sell to someone who is a resident of another state
then the atf shoot your dog and butt fuck you.
its the same as selling to a felon. You don't have to make sure but if they are a felon you are going to prison
>>79064114
what you are describing is illegal
>>79055267
>talking about orlando shooting with liberal noguns, Antiguns, comeandtakeyourguns coworker
>she says the nra is a terrorist organization
>ask her if I'm a terrorist
>she says no
>tell her I'm an nra member
>therefore I am a terrorist
>she says I'm different because I'm not a crazy person
>wow just like the 300 million other gun owners
>she says that Noone needs an assault rifle
>tell her I own a gun that would be classified as an assault rifle if a ban were to happen
>tell her it's not an assault weapon because assault rifle/weapon is a made up term and assault rifle implies that it's sole use is to assault people which isn't the case because I use my rifle to defend myself
>tell her the 2nd isn't about hunting and fishing, it's about the right to bear arms and a gun ban is unconstitutional
>>79059806
>>79059103
>>79058214
Selling, or giving guns to illegal immigrates or felons is against the law and punishable in the court of law.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
Section D.1 of 18, 922g
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) is a fugitive from justice;
(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
>>79061065
I had an argument about this and brought up both the fact you can 3D print unregistered fire arms now or even ghetto rig a shotgun using nails, tubing and a welding glove. I forget the name for them now but the point still stands outlawing weapons was not the correct way to stop gun violence given the ubiquitous distribution of not just weapons but the ability to make new weapons and ammo without any state oversight. The guy wouldn't coincide his point, but did agree with me that a attacking the culture that promotes gun violence would be an effective means of reducing mass shootings.
And yes, he had never shot a gun in his life.
>>79064275
I hate when faggots tell me semi-auto guns aren't used for hunting
"assault rifles" can be used for small game with great effect
I also used a semi-auto .300 win mag to hunt elk
semi-auto rifles are pretty much objectively better for short ranges where you don't need the marginal advantages of a bolt action
>>79060924
that's rich coming from a country which doesn't classify murders as murders unless someone is convicted.
>>79057293
She might have had scouter pre-installed, since she wasn't that far off though.
>>79064231
>it is against the law if you accidentally sell to someone who is a resident of another state
>its the same as selling to a felon
Honestly, I think you'd be surprised. If you read the laws there's a lot of "knowingly"s in there. IE it's basically one of those few laws you can get away with breaking by pleading ignorant.
>>79064565
Once again, "knowing" is very much a key word.
>>79063882
niggers plus federal agents are either corrupt or extremely retarded so criminals take their guns
>>79064707
you might be right but at the same time the ATF are going to shoot you and your dog whenever possible
I wouldn't risk it and if they truly want the knowingly part won't matter if you don't try to check their license
>>79064887
>I wouldn't risk it
Yea me neither.
>>79064820
Also, the >"reasonable cause to believe that such person" pretty much makes it so you're fucked either way.
>>79058115
That's because most liberals are kids.
>>79064114
Then the left should be asking the gun free cities to enforce their laws. Make inspection points prior to entering the city and you'll keep the guns out.
Or are you just interested in restricting the freedom of law abiding citizens?
>>79065107
>"reasonable cause to believe that such person"
Nah man, that's some very cushy wording. Any half ass lawyer could work around that.
There's a reason why you don't hear about more people being brought up on these types of charges, even though, lets face it, it happens all the time.
>>79064565
Shall not be infringed kinda predates that and hasnt been amended in the Constitution. The last two generations of Americans laid the ground work to allow the government to do whatever the fuck they want to now.
Not to mention all the very seriously inhumane shit they've also done.
>>79065385
you have proofs that it happens often?
I haven't even heard a single case about people getting off because of the wording
>>79064275
"Assault rifle" is not a made up term, it comes from German "sturmgewehr", which is what the Germans chose to call the very first assault rifle which they invented during WW2.
>>79065668
They don't even get charged in the first place.
And yea it happens often, how do you think the criminals are getting their guns?
>>79055267
The answer is to enact something like the Cohen Act, but only enforce it on non-whites.
Also legalize crack, but only for non-whites and give them a years worth of the shit for every thug they turn in.
Anytime a white is killed by a non-white, we exterminate the entire community it came from, no exceptions.
Anytime a white woman is sexually assaulted by a nonwhite, the female population from it's community will be decimated.
Anytime a white child is killed/harmed/violated by a non-white, the entire child population from it's community will be purged.
The above policies are only temporary. They will exist to keep the subhumans at bay until such a time as they can be efficiently purged.
>>79065811
stealing or illegal purchases
I'm not saying they aren't breaking the law but the reason the charges aren't brought up is because its fucking unenforceable not because of the wording
>>79066019
It's unenforceable because it's not against the law. The gun show loophole has been a thing for awhile now. Libs are starting to catch on just now.
So what I'm getting at here is that if guns are taken away the crime rates would stay the same and nothing would change?
>>79066142
the "gun show loophole" is a private sale
even if you wanted background checks there how would that stop people from still making illegal sales that are unenforceable?
>>79055267
you fell for the black market meme:
http://www.renaudbrothers.com/#!arming-the-mexican-cartels/c1lc3
but that bit about niggers not having dads was top-kek bantz m8
>>79066304
I've been talking about private sales the entire time.
>even if you wanted background checks there how would that stop people from still making illegal sales that are unenforceable?
I don't know man, I'm just talking about what's legal and what's not.
My left wing friends are usually pretty open to listening to what I have to say at least. I think I'm pretty lucky.
Often our discussions end up with them agreeing my logic is right, but they fall back on feelings as their reason for their beliefs. That's just human nature.
>>79066457
I know we have and what I am saying is all these things that criminals get guns from is fucking illegal
my entire point is that liberals don't know these things are illegal when they are because they don't understand gun laws
>>79057693
I think you're an enormous faggot with little education, poor rhetorical skills, poor argumentative skills, and a propensity for whining like a massive baby to other anons on imageboards. You're exactly the kind of person who leans toward wanting guns to make up for how shitty your are with women and how inadequate your penis is. This is now officially a cringe thread.
>>79055267
>being in Manhattan
found your problem
>>79059460
>yes, you are, you have just been brainwashed extremely well to not realize it.
>>79064060
>my girlfriend is 23 white 5'10" 125 lbs and a straight dime
Congratulations, would you like medal?
>Live in shitcongo
>At bonfire with ex's dumb friends
>One blabbing about how schools in some southern state are shitty for one reason or another and how dumb conservatives are
>Quietly look up school statics, Illinois ranks 20 states lower than whatever state she was complaining about
>Go ahead and let her know
>Her: "Whatever I don't care anymore."
>Hold my tongue
>Her: "Well at least we don't have Republicans here"
>Me: "I suppose, but you know city liberals are the only people who vote the same for 60 years and watch their home decay then go to the polls and vote for the same people again."
At this point in time my ex gives me her passive aggressive nudge of disapproval so I cool down. The dumb whore didn't bring up politics again though.
>>79055267
>arguing with liberals
Don't bother. The second they pull out the "muh feels" I just tell them to fuck off. It's a waste of time having a conversation with someone when they have their head up their ass.
Libs will say the same about the right, but at least the right has logic on their side.
>>79055267
>Arguing with liberals
not going to work
Late night D level comedy shows tell them what to think.
How to trigger a liberal
Step 1 - Facts
No other steps needed
