Here's my idea of why nationalism exists in the first place.
From birth, no matter what ancestry we have, we are being told to respect it, to value it and cherish it.
I'm sure that in 99% of the world at least some people died for their country. I'm sure many of them died for the right cause, not knowing any better.
Take this into perspective. What is a country? A large group of people controlled by a small group of people occupying a certain territory. How do you die for that? Sure, died for revenge, avenge, glory, freedom... of what?
We are being thought that national pride is important just so we could be there when our government needs us. That's how wars get started.
Out of that, conclude that there is no greater power than large groups of people devoted to the same goal.
The before mentioned small group of people that run the Land know that as a fact. The ones in charge of the social structure of our Lands keep separating us into small and big groups, depending on what we're to be used for.
You and I are nothing but manpower.
When introduced to many ideologies, religions, identities, hierarchies, norms, ideas, idols and leaders, people will eventually split amongst eachother and blindly follow what their 'leaders' and 'idols' tell them is true.
The people who own us know that we cannot come together and bring them down. That has happened in the past, revolutions were powerful enough to overthrow instituted governments.
Can you imagine that happening today? There are 76 genders, how do you put them in the same room and explain we are being fucked in the same way by the same people when they believe they are anteaters in sexual life or whatever?
Nationalism is segregation.
You cannot just go with "My land is to love, other lands are to hate".
I will never die for a country. If it was worth dying for, we'd be much better off. We wouldn't have to be told to die for it, we would know it by heart.
Cont. 2/2
I would know I'm living a perfect life if my government was indeed providing that much for me, but they never have. I had to build my life alone and now I'm expected to see value and respect my Land? No, fuck right off.
Nationalism isn't supposed to teach you to value and respect your Land, it is just supposed to teach just unlabeled respect and unlabeled value.
>hurdur cuck
No, I'm a bigot. It's more justifiable and based on experience, rather than second-hand information.
I hate plenty of nations and their people, even though I grew up judging everyone on individual basis. Sometimes you can see patterns and realize that some stereotypes apply.
>>78972648
Its just an extension of natural human tribalism. Its literally no different from having pride or basing your identity on any of the thousands of other entities we create in our heads
Some people like having a national identity.
>>78972958
Ye well some people like skull-fucking newborn babies, but that's not alright.
tldr:
>me me me me, me me! ME ME, me me me? me me
>>78972805
The question is how to overcome it.
>>78973239
And if I was quoting others you'd call me an unoriginal cunt, right?
>>78973322
Change human nature? Or bury it beneath a more inclusive identity
>>78972648
>nationalism is problematic
>we should accept the globalist oligarchy world government instead.
Nationalism allows decentralization of power, the end result of your ideology is a united world government. The more power a government has, the more oppressive it becomes. Hence, what your ideology leads to is oppression, not salvation.
>>78973706
Well, both.
Is it human nature work a half of our lives just for a bit of privacy and luxury?
Is it human nature to kill in the name of an imaginary being?
It is now, it wasn't in the beginning before religions.
Nationalsm didn't exist when fire was first 'invented'.
You can change human nature with the right information.
You can explain to masses of dumb people in simple words how they're being viciously raped by their governments.
You can in theory. There are people preaching about how the world is flat and even they have followers, imagine if you could just be in a position to adress a vast amount of the general public and be sure they'll hear you out due to your reputation. You could just flip everyone from the far left to the far right with the right choice of words.
But people who promote this kind of anti-government coups usually end up getting lynched.
>>78974611
>Is it human nature work a half of our lives just for a bit of privacy and luxury?
>Is it human nature to kill in the name of an imaginary being?
Yes, these both stem from fundamental human nature
>Nationalsm didn't exist when fire was first 'invented'.
Tribalism certainly existed, nationalism is the same thing on a bigger scale
>You can change human nature with the right information.
No you cant, its physically built into our biological machinery
>You can explain to masses of dumb people in simple words how they're being viciously raped by their governments.
Everybody thinks anyone who disagrees with them is dumb
I have no idea what your point is
>>78972648
shills are trying to get introspective and deep now
Here's my idea:
sage
>>78972648
Nationalism is a strategy with which to fight internationalism. It's quite simple. From nationalism - assuming it can destroy internationalism - can we further decentralize government and cede control to local governments and communities.
>>78972648
Humans are social creatures. We need an identity. Just like you value your family, you should also value your ethnicity and countrymen, who are basically your extended family. With them you share customs, culture and beliefs. Its what makes us human.
It is literally autistic to think that people are just individuals. Everyone not on the autism spectrum understands that we have social bonds.
>We are being thought that national pride is important just so we could be there when our government needs us
we dont do it for the goverment Sven. The people may be controlled but they do it for the people. Their family and friends
>You cannot just go with "My land is to love, other lands are to hate".
Strike two, you can love your own land without hating others.
>Einstein
>>78975368
This
It doesn't even matter, we're all moving towards continental superstates anyway, then eventually a global one.
This has been the general trend all throughout history, the unification and expansion of identities via contact, time, and exchange. As the previous factors increase the individual identities of small groups collapses and reforms as a single entity.
Today you're english, the next you're british, the next you're european, someday you'll call yourself human as if it were natural.
>>78972648
Why does everything have to have a deep meaning to you retards?
It's nothing more than pride in who you are, and what your people were. That's all. It's a very simple concept.
Jews have pride in their people, niggers and spics have pride in their people, so do Asians.
But whites can't.
>>78972648
>>78972737
I'm not really sure what specific point you're trying to make other than general anti-nationalist sentiment.
>>78972648
Infantile and selfish view of nationalism.
At the end of the day, in a population level, ethnocentric communities tend to be more successful than others.
https://egtheory.wordpress.com/2013/06/30/how-ethnocentrics-rule/
>>78973322
Why overcome it, just make the countries smaller and democratic like Switzerland, so you have the best of nationalism without being able to fuck shit up too hard. What you don't like is probably imperialism, but tribalism is good, keeps cooperation and trust high, and a perimeter worth defending.
>>78975734
Whites are OP. We're not allowed to have pride in who we are because when we do we wreck shit.
Albert (((Einstein)))
>muh speshul snowflake induvidusalism
>>78972648
>Nationalism is segregation.
>You cannot just go with "My land is to love, other lands are to hate".
Here's where you're wrong, I don't hate other countries, i want them to be proud of themselves and prosper and be treated with dignity. Not be washed away and be told their culture and identity does not exist or does not matter, it does! I care for my fellow countrymen because i see them as extended family, we have a duty towards each other, our ancestors and our offspring to keep this nation unharmed and if possible improved.
>>78975222
Well, that's a good point.
>>78975368
You're a tool.
>>78975463
No, you're also a tool.
>>78975572
No, no.
>>78975734
America: nr 30 in education, nr 1 in confidence. Gtfo, stupid, confident moron.
>>78976176
>selfish
Don't think you know what that word means.
>>78976383
That's a good point, but only in theory.
>>78977236
That's what I mean, man.
Norway doesn't have the "respect your countrymen as extended family" mentality. We're too individual and it's blatantly obvious why.
I have that same point of view, but no one in my generation does. Only my 40+ friends do.
>>78972648
I can see how a European might not have any pride for their nation. If one looks to the social contract and various other documents that demonstrate that politicians are more expressions of the people than powerful in their own right. Take for example Trump, he is no more than a manifestation of belief's that American's have held for sometime and when one looks at the Republican electorate one could have seen such a development. Individual politicians are nothing but figure-heads for the will of the people. If Trump had not taken the mantle some other figurehead would have. To think that the few can influence the mob to perform any action they were not already set upon doing fails to understand that the people often already have their minds made up. Slow convincing is necessary to influence any trajectory of history.
You have a distinct lack in the critical thinking of human beings. I have taken note of what I would call "common sense" thought. My father for example wished for a return to a time when people followed common sense, what I take that to mean is people want a narrative that is simple to understand. Often times "leaders" become icons or a certain simplified ideal, however they coax the notion no more than any other individual in their stead would. Rather the ideology that wins favor is the one that can show its logic most simply. The idea is what wins never the individual bureaucrat.
Not to mention in America at least the average politician is viewed with large amount of suspect.
Irregardless, patriotism is a virtue, as it is an unconditional love of nation. It is not unconditional hate of foreign nations. It is a love of home that enables one to improve it for its own sake. Chesterton put it something like this:
>>78977896
Sorry didn't read everything and jumped to conclusions.
>>78978026
Rational optimism leads to stagnation: it is irrational optimism that leads to reform. Let me explain by using once more the parallel of patriotism. The man who is most likely to ruin the place he loves is exactly the man who loves it with a reason. The man who will improve the place is the man who loves it without a reason. If a man loves some feature of Pimlico (which seems unlikely), he may find himself defending that feature against Pimlico itself. But if he simply loves Pimlico itself, he may lay it waste and turn it into the New Jerusalem. I do not deny that reform may be excessive; I only say that it is the mystic patriot who reforms.
>>78977896
Fuck off, retard.
>its a yuropeon has no grasp of patriotism or pride episode
I bet he also believe in the education will improve and equalize everyone regardless of race and class meme.
>>78978170
>>78978026
While I see what point of view you're thinking from, I think you misunderstood me in the long run.
I explained exactly what you did, or at least I think so, but in other words.
>>78978648
>it's an american bringing up education episode
Don't go down that route
>>78979147
Keep laboring away at the leftist altar of """education"""
>Surely if we just educate those migrants they will become doctors and scientists.
>>78978987
I would claim we have overarching groups, but humans have always factionalized issues, take for example Irish and Italians being considered non-white in America but were eventually integrated.
Furthermore, dying for one's country is a paramount virtue.
>>78972648
you are an idiot
nations exist because they are superior to non-nations
we all originated from them and over time non-nations literally went extinct yet you idolize it as our destiny
>>78979394
You're just taking pride in someone else's work
>>78972648
Einstein only said that cuz he was jewish
>>>78974611
>Change human nature and/or bury it beneath a more inclusive identity
this is largely the difference between right and left. some of us are narcissistic enough to believe we can put aside our DNA/human programming and become more than human.
the rest of us understand that while circumstances change, human nature itself never does. go back and read some of the shit the ancient greeks were writing and you'll see perfect parallels today. you faggots always think you'll be the ones, the generation, the implementation to get it right but it always ends a bloody mess.
>>78972648
Ignore cuck threads
>>78973322
We accept it. We can't overcome it. Every race has racial preference down to the subconscious level. We're even less likely to be able to decipher facial characteristics of other races from on another.
Honestly, multicultural society is a lie. We need to end it, and redivide people. Anyone who thinks otherwise is retarded.
>>78980006
>>78974611
For instance, before fire and "nations" as we know them, tribalism existed. We congregated/banded together/mated into our own groups based on geography and likeness and often battled other groups or individuals for resources because ourselves and our group are always the priority.
i don't know how you think you can make the whole world one big happy group without destroying individual identity and interbreeding to the point we all look the same and have similar IQ levels. and it's beyond narcissistic to believe everyone in the world can be made to get along and want the same exact things. fuck collectivism and equality of outcome.
>>78972737
Yes, you are a stupid bigot shill.
You're a bourgeois that benefit from the european natives misery because it siphon their wealth toward you.
Die.
>>78973322
You're not meant to overcome it. That's like saying we must all overcome lust or gluttony. You control it and use it in a healthy balance. Trying rid something that's part of human nature never leads to any success.
>>78972648
we live in time when communism is viewed favorably and nationalism is literally hitler, ww3 when
>>78972648
Riddle me this.
If nationalism is infantile, isn't ANY sense of community?
The end point of any globalist agenda is in no way more altruistic than the end point of nationalism. Lets take every message to it's end point.
Should I stop loving my family because of our genetic similarity, our shared customs? If not, why must I stop loving my countrymen for the same? I won't. I'll continue to perpetuate this mutually beneficial agreement which offers nothing but to seek assistance when I'm struggling, and to help others when they're struggling.
Should I stop caring about my community, and become solely self serving and self centred? Should I treat my neighbour with no more and no less kindness than any of the other 7 billion humans on this earth, rather than try to foster a sense of community? Should I ignore his plight when he falls in favour of sending help to some other human because proximity is apparently no reason for preferential treatment.
The end result of globalism isn't going to unite us, and a part of me doesn't think it's meant to. The end result of globalism is having everyone a self centred, self serving cretin who's loyalty is to nothing but that green god, money. A world where politicians no longer rule, but corporations, and the people who fight for them do so not out of desire to create a better future for their family and their countrymen, but because they offered them the most lucrative deal.
Nationalism encourages people to follow the same "morally righteous" activities that socialism does, except out of the kindness of their heart rather than fear of reprisal.
If you think when nationalists fight, they do it for their politicians, you have no understanding. They do it for their neighbours, their parents, their siblings and their children. They do it for the people and the culture they care about.
