>sanders wants a $15 minimum wage
>Elizabeth warren wants a $22 minimum wage
When will the madness end? Do the Democrats and their backers realize that they will be pricing a ton of humans out of jobs because it won't be worth it to have them anymore?
Why dont we just make it a million an hour? There's obviously nothing bad that can come from it. My liberal friend told me so.
how about we abolish money. if you work, you eat.you don't, you die
>>78932969
>we can't survive on $8.25/hr
maybe those lazy niggers should work towards higher paying jobs instead of being stuck at McDonalds their whole lives
If we end illegal immigration and wages go up how is that different than the government raising them?
>>78933074
Pretty much liberal logic in a nutshell.
>>78933192
I like being able to get smartphones and TVs instead of just trading work for a chicken.
>>78933219
Reducing the number of people in a workforce means that portion of the workforce will have to adjust rather than the whole economy. If we end illegal immigration and get rid of illegal labor in areas where it is much cheaper than legal labor, those areas will have to raise the wage in order to attract proper talent. However, it will not be a mandate on the entirety of the economy in all positions to pay a certain wage. This would vastly reduce the impact, and instead let the free market work.
>>78932969
At this rate you should abolish money altogether
Good goy, you should stay at the same minimum wage forever
The wealth will trickle down
>>78934488
Income inequality is a problem and the minimum wage has not risen as quickly as in the past but the reality is that many jobs are not worth what they used to be worth, especially with automation or better products/services. Changing the minimum wage to be some arbitrarily higher number will not change that, it will increase the prices of goods and services and outprice a lot of people to not be worth employing in the first place.
Increasing amounts and the lowering price of automation create problems without a minimum wage hike, but a minimum wage hike exacerbates the issue. In the end we probably will need a real minimum alternative income, but that's an entirely different debate.
>>78934488
>You should work a minimum wage job
>ever
What the fuck is wrong with you faggots? Why do you think minimum wage is a "starting point"
People who make less than a living wage get the money they need to live from welfare, otherwise they'd die. No one seems to realize this or at the least talk about it.
If you gave people a living wage, they wouldn't need welfare (your tax money) to live, and it would come out of the capitalist owner's pocket.
>>78932969
Neither could I. Why don't you make something of yourself and stop working shitty dead-end jobs?
>minimum wage jobs are for starters
except there are more low wage jobs than there are people who are starting out in the workplace
it's a 100% guarantee that millions of adults who aren't starting out must fill these jobs
>we can't survive
>uses luxury goods like smartphones
>>78935842
Phones are cheap now lad
>>78935673
>abolish welfare except for the disabled
>hike the minimum wage
y/n
>>78935673
>If you gave people a living wage, they wouldn't need welfare (your tax money) to live, and it would come out of the capitalist owner's pocket.
Defining a "living wage" is difficult, but not everyone works to live. Some teenagers work minimum wage jobs to get some extra money for a video game or sunglasses or an iPhone. Some people supplement the income of their spouse.
In any event, declaring the "minimum wage" by law is not something that makes a job worth the price listed, it just raises the minimum cost of labor to fill a position, whether or not that's appropriate. There are plenty of McDonalds with people working for $8.25/hr (or more or less) depending on the area, they aren't starving for employees who say "that isn't enough". Raising the minimum wage doesn't make their labor any more productive to the business; in fact, doing so would make labor more than half of the cost of business in most markets, eradicating margin. The only solution would be to raise prices.
Even that is not the worst of it though, we already have $15 minimum wage movements getting traction. In seattle they have a $15 minimum wage starting in 2017 for the largest businesses and 2021 for the smallest. This was passed in 2015 and McDonalds immediately started installing kiosks to replace almost all of the cashiers, with a button to page an employee. Eventually loading a basket of fries and dumping it and filling a fry container, etc. will be easier for the business owner, will be cheaper to have a $30,000 robot arm flipping the burgers instead of a human that gets sick, isn't always available, etc...
>>78932969
It's worse than that, inflation will balloon greatly with the minimum wage leaps while subsidiaries (401k, Medicare, etc) will not which will tank the market even faster.
>>78932969
>Do the Democrats and their backers realize that they will be pricing a ton of humans out of jobs because it won't be worth it to have them anymore?
If the choice is between working for meager wages and not working at all, create circumstances that change that.
The big issue is wage stagnation. Theoretically companies should be paying their employees 10 dollars minimum or so.
>>78932969
I want 100 bucks a hour minimum wage. Vote for me
I made minimum wage for 3 months of my life before I got a job that was minimum wage plus commission. I averaged about $12 an hour. Then I moved out of my parents' house and got a better job where I got paid a solid hourly, commission, and benefits. I was making 50k per year by the time I was 20 because I worked hard and got good at what I did. That was a decade ago. Now I own a business. There is literally no reason to depend solely on minimum wage for an extended period of time as an adult.
Demanding more and virtue signaling should not be a substitute for taking your situation into your own hands through actual effort. How am I supposed to take these kids with 600 dollar smartphones seriously when all they do is look for handouts?
>>78936393 here
The road to hell is always paved with good intentions. Look at Obamacare's mandate that employers of more than 50 people must offer health insurance to employees that are full time. What happened? Employers cut a lot of people's hours by 20% or more so they could not rack up more than 32 hours a week, classifying them as part time, and then hired more people. The end result was reduced income opportunities and still no healthcare.
Raising the minimum wage is not the answer. And whether or not the minimum wage is raised, automation will continue to threaten the jobs of millions of americans. Driverless cars and trucks threaten truck drivers, taxi, limo, bus drivers, etc... millions of jobs. Tolling has been electronic in many areas for more than two decades, some are finally getting rid of the last manual toll collectors and going all electronic. Restaurants are replacing 5-6 servers per shift with 1 server and tablets. And this is at the EXISTING minimum wage. Doubling the minimum wage gives you twice the incentive to look to put humans out of a job ASAP.
>>78936561
The big issue is people pulling numbers out of their butt
>>78936614
Wow Bill Gates here ppl.. Parent let him live with them till Johnny got a big boy job and they sent him off in there old accord...
people who are against raising the minimum wage and indexing it to inflation should be hung
>We can't survive on 8.25
The problem is that stupid niggers like this will blow all their money regardless of how much money they have or make. Just look at all the rappers and athletes who get a lot of money, they blow it all instantly and end up with backtaxes that puts them in debt.
Having a higher salary won't matter since they don't balance their budgets. If they have money today it'll be gone tomorrow.
Higher minimum wage won't solve the problem that people live paycheck by paycheck without saving money.
lets just abolish all division of labor and return to isolated communal tribes of hunter gatherers
>>78936182
Doesn't change the fact that it is a luxury good. They say they are lacking money for survival, they shouldn't be buying luxury goods.
>>78936556
>If the choice is between working for meager wages and not working at all, create circumstances that change that.
What is your proposal for that? Even the Germans are hard at work on a manufacturing front to reduce that. I went to a factory in Western Germany this winter and saw a couple machines that had to be operated manually, the rest were all computerized and they had a couple people per shift walking around occasionally moving the bins when they filled so the parts could dump into empty bins. Fewer people were needed in QA because the machines were able to do more automated checking that the parts met quality control. This removes skilled labor from the pool. What do we have these people do instead?
The real problem is that you would have a hard time getting a law passed that you have to use humans to do a job even though they are less efficient/more costly than a machine, and if you can't do that then at a certain point it becomes cheaper to eliminate the job with a machine and then the "real minimum wage" is $0 when that person is jobless.
>>78935569
there simply aren't enough high paying jobs for everyone to get by. Yes it is a starting point, but some people can't get out of that point.
>>78936916
Did you not read my post, you faggot? I clearly said I moved out of my parents house before I was 20. I was actually 18. Would you have liked for me to move out while I was in high school?
>>78936863
You want to talk numbers?
Cost of living and wage increases are going in different direction. As an anecdote even my parents who make 100k + each have seen zero increase in salaries over 3 years when they should be receiving increases to compensate for costs of living where I am.
>>78937139
So they should have a house phone at 45$ a month? Good luck getting a job without a phone number to put down..
>>78935842
A smartphone is like 70 bucks. You don't need an iPhone 6.
>>78932969
If you can't survive then I guess you will have to die
>>78932969
I hate protesters like these.
Huur duur 8.25 an hour is too little
>Wearing expensive clothing
>having iphone
>living beyond our means in general
>>78937225
The amount of value generated by a job has nothing to do with the cost of living
>>78937147
Marxism would be the only solution to make sure people can feed themselves, despite these production models.
I am not memeing.
>>78937294
>A smartphone is like 70 bucks.
Smartphones are only that cheap when you make monthly payments to the phone provider that covers the cost of the phone. Did you think your "two year contract" deal included a $500 discount on the device?
You should research the actual costs associated with the things you pay for.
the companies that can't afford it fail and deserve to fail, sell their assets at firesale prices to their competitors who can manage it, increasing the rate of return for those who can innovate to preserve or widen the margin in such an event. every single time some reform has been introduced management and their boot lickers hail it as potentially disastrous, and it never is, because capitalism never stops
if we raise it to $15 and index it to inflation we'll literally never have to fight about this again
>>78937344
If cost of living goes up wages should proportionately go up if you want a stable middle class and keep people out of welfare programs.
>>78936182
Phones are very cheap if you get an obamaphone or even cheaper if you get an Obama's son's phone which is just like a regular phone except stolen
>>78932969
>we can't survive on $8.25 an hour
Then explain how I'm living comfortably on $7.25.
>>78932969
jesus youre a fucking imbecile.
to say nothing of this braintrust:
>>78937312
>>78937523
Some questions. Do you live alone or with others/your family? Are you on food stamps? Are you in a housing program? Where do you live?
>>78937267
I have a cellphone with a 35$ prepaid plan with unlimited calls, texts and two gigglebytes of data. There is no excuse.
We should just put the minimum wage at something outrageous like 25 bucks and progress automation to its logical endpoint
It's gonna happen either way
>The year 2500
>"We can't survive on $300/hr!"
>>78937464
Ummmm go to wal mart and get a android smart phone for 125$ you stupid bitch
>>78937523
Because you probably live with your parents with them providing for you and you providing for no one.
>>78937667
>>78937523
anecdotal fallacies
>>78937149
Work at a warehouse
>>78937667
Argument was cell phone are a luxury you cunt
>>78937267
Trac fones are dirt cheap, there's also super subsidized phones for people with low income. You can get a $25 month unlimited talk and text/2GB data full speed (throttled thereafter). You don't need a $400 smartphone to make calls or texts.
>>78937464
Nah, a lot of the prepaid carriers will give you a free Android phone (not a high end one) for free or less than $100, you can also buy used on eBay, Craigslist, etc. or buy a phone that is deliberately low price new at retail without contract (e.g. 2nd Gen Motorola G is $160 on amazon, and cheaper when on sale).
>>78936393
This economy isn't a good example of minimum wage laws because it's crippled by regulations allowing corporate power to serve its own interest rather than its employee's interests.
If you define a minimum wage as one which allows one person a semi-comfortable lifestyle where they can afford health insurance, food, some electronics, and a small house, then 20 dollars per hour is the minimum in most places. The problem is that without a minimum wage, companies can employee desperate people for less than they require to live. This is already becoming a reality for many people because the minimum wage hasn't increased with inflation.
yes, teenagers don't need the wage an adult does, but they aren't the people crying for a minimum wage increase.
A coming issue is that job costs won't be worth what it costs to employ people due to technological innovation and markets can't keep up by providing new niches.
In regards to your last point, yes, minimum wage hikes mirroring inflation and living costs are gaining traction but they won't be instantiated because corporations won't give up their absurd wealth. We will have to hit a full blown super depression or revolt before wealth is more evenly distributed.
>>78937791
Lol, just lol
Anyone can buy the exact same fucking cell phone I did right now and get the same plan and everything. That's hardly anecdotal
>>78937821
>cellphones
>luxury
nope, having 24/7 (or at least 7AM-6PM) access to contacting people / them contacting you is a necessity in the modern world, especially during job hunts
>>78937464
I bought a S5 for $250 and use it with a prepaid plan for $5 a month
>>78937791
Well, it's takes anecdotal evidence to build a consensus. And the consensus has been and always will be that minimum wage jobs are transitional positions for high school students and the elderly.
Anyone attempting to make a career out of a McJob is a fool after their own tail.
The truth hurts.
>I currently survive on $10, no benefits other than what I purchase myself
Kids are so spolied, when they see that they can't have the awesome party life with a nice house and no responsibilities that they have at home or in college (from loans) on minimum wage they flip out and scream oppression.
I sometimes feel like I would like to see a system where all employees receive an equal share of profits, but I understand that then there would be no motivation to move up in a career, to be more educated, or to work harder
>>78932969
>only read the title
>ITT 4chan becomes an economic expert
>>78937964
A Smartphone is a luxury.
You can buy a flip phone
>>78937707
Do you realize that by 2500, just because the natural inflation those "$300" probably won't worth $10 actual dollars?
>>78932969
>Minimum wage goes to $15 an hour
>implying I wouldn't want my wage increased accordingly above minimum
>The field my business is in isn't affected by a sudden increase in spending money for poor people
>Meanwhile our costs go up out of nowhere
>implying my business wouldn't cut costs by cutting those that aren't directly involved in sales and increasing profits
>implying this wouldn't overnight destroy the IT industry in the US in particular
>implying I wouldn't hire some hajeed to fix my printer instead of paying the current guy $14 to babysit the server and surf the internet all day and occasionally fix the printer
>>78937727
You are American. How do you not know to put the dollar sign before the number?
But clearly, I'm the "stupid bitch." Not the guy telling me that people who make minimum wage should go spend half of their paycheck, if that, on a luxury electronic.
Not that the people complaining tend to buy the cheaper devices anyway. No, they have to have what they perceive to be a status symbol. Most young black liberals, ala OP's pic, are not using TracFones. Go outside.
I have a small business which is currently a part time venture.
I hope to grow it year by year.
I could never afford to hire help at 15 per hour.
That means I will never officially hire anyone.
Morale of the story; McDonalds and Walmart are easy targets.
The dude with the small landscape business? He can't hire/fire some goofy high school kids for some pocket money?
No. He cannot. They must be able to raise a family of four all year round.
The fuck?
>>78938106
What if they cost the same?
>>78938224
>blacks make poor buying decisions based on cred
>not their fault
>>78932969
It's not madness. Just like the "truth" campaign was funded by tobacco companies, these lefties are servants of the banksters who enable the banks to control and exploit the left-wing grass roots.
>>78938227
>I could never afford to hire help at 15 per hour.
Then your business is poorly run and generates little profit.
>>78938249
You can buy a normal non-smartphone for between 5 and 20 dollars at a grocery store. They don't cost the same.
>mfw living off a 9 dollar an hour job, in a comfortable hotel room, with enough money left over for anime figures and books
>used to live in shithole socialist venezuela and legally moved to us and now living in fucking oppulence in a capitalist wonderland where there are jobs everywhere and food isn't scarce
Maybe they should just budget themselves better and not have kids.
>>78937149
Then why not reduce taxes, slow down immigration, reduce regulation, support small businesses etc instead of waving your magic money-materializing stick at the minimum wage and pretending to fix it?
>>78937916
>This economy isn't a good example of minimum wage laws because it's crippled by regulations allowing corporate power to serve its own interest rather than its employee's interests.
Corporations and businesses have to succeed in order for the employees to remain employed. If the business fails then the jobs are gone.
>If you define a minimum wage as one which allows one person a semi-comfortable lifestyle where they can afford health insurance, food, some electronics, and a small house, then 20 dollars per hour is the minimum in most places. The problem is that without a minimum wage, companies can employee desperate people for less than they require to live. This is already becoming a reality for many people because the minimum wage hasn't increased with inflation.
The problem is the minimum wage and minimum living wage are two different things. The wage at which a job exists may not be enough for one person to support themselves in a financially independent fashion in a semi-comfortable lifestyle. If you argue that you want the minimum wage to be equal to the minimum livable wage than you cause a variety of problems:
1) A number of jobs are just no longer worth offering at the increased wage because people are not willing to pay the price that is required to offer the good/service with the increased labor cost.
2) Automation becomes cheaper faster in comparison making it easier to displace these jobs entirely.
3) Inflation to the prices of goods/services devaluing savings/investments vs. cost of living, plus lack of adjustment of government benefit programs to meet pace (or increased cost of these programs to provide the benefits at the new level).
4) Anyone that was making close to the minimum wage (people in IT careers, EMS often makes ~$13 for a skilled job, etc.) is going to expect a proportional increase. At $22/hr you can make ~$45K/yr. A lot of airline pilots make less than that!
>>78932969
>we can't survive on $8.25/hr
I fucking WISH I was paid $8.25/hr. Lazy fucking niggers.
>>78937801
Surprisingly, every small company I've worked for offered better pay than larger companies.
>Be 16
>make $10/hr working for local candy company or make $5.75/hr selling shoes to idiots at the mall
>Be 18
>Make $7.25/hr in crappy retail job or make $12/hr prefabricating sheds for a local company
>Be 21
>Make $65k/yr doing 5% more work than if I worked for a larger company for half the pay.
Don't suckle the corporate teat and you'll be fine. Even if the benefits aren't comparable, pay compensation is definitely a possibility, especially if you prove yourself.
>>78938343
I didn't say it wasn't their fault. I'm pointing out that they do not take the cheaper option, even though it's obvious they should. The intelligent idea would be to pick up a cheap prepaid non-smartphone for 15 bucks and use it to answer calls for interviews. But nogs gonna nog.
>>78938360
>business is poorly run because the government forced wage prices to double regardless of cost of living issues or any other metric a person with half a brain understands
Yeah, he's the bad businessman.
>>78934488
If people don't put efforts into changing their shitty situation and has no attandence at improving himself, yes he is fuckihg right that he's gonna be stuck at min wage forever
And he deserves it
>>78938527
That's the beauty of price competition
>>78938360
That's right, retard.
It is, by definition, "small".
Holy fucking dog shit, I should get gilded by finding the thickest bastard on 4chan.
>>78932969
How did they survive up to this point? Is this why they murder each other over chicken and shoes?
>>78938495 (continued)
On point #4: This means that the wages of skilled jobs are going to have to go up as well, further driving up the costs of goods and services - negating any benefit the wage increase would have had.
>yes, teenagers don't need the wage an adult does, but they aren't the people crying for a minimum wage increase.
Mostly agreed (I know teens who have complained).
>A coming issue is that job costs won't be worth what it costs to employ people due to technological innovation and markets can't keep up by providing new niches.
This comes regardless; a minimum wage hike just increases how rapidly this occurs. Basic minimum income is going to have to become a reality with current trends, because there will be people that have no skill worth paying more than a small amount for (or at all) in society.
Technically you're not supposed to survive on min wage. Working min wage is the employer saying they'd pay you less if legal and the job is most likely non essential and a luxury service. Even if the luxury is a 2 dollar hamburger.
Fortunately if that is the only job you can work the govt generally subsidizes your life. You qualify for foodstamps housing assistance and possibly a few others. The govt has both section 8 and private sector apartments that get checks from the federal govt for basing the tenants rent on how much they make.
And if that fails there's always the private prison industry. Just commit a small crime and go to prison where you'll be clothed sheltered fed and provided with some basic health care all on the tax payers ticket. Private prisons make profits on inmates and are always happy to overfill their facilities with non violent offenders for a few years.
>>78937916
>crippled by regulations allowing corporate power to serve its own interest
Except that America has better wages than rest of the world dumbass.
Mexico: $3.5 per day
Ukraine: 50 Euros per month
Russia: Around 60 Euros per month
China; $1 Dollar (or even less) per day.
So how come "those corporate powers" still pay you a shit ton of money per hour?
>>78937149
Now that's a load of bullshit if I've ever heard one. I moved past minimum wage when I was 16 with warehouse jobs. Hell the USPS center I worked at for summers in college is perpetually understaffed with $12/hr and you are guaranteed 50+ hours per week
>>78938415
hotel room? Is it affordable? Is it some kind of special offer for poor brown barefoot immigrants? Can you post a pic of your feet?
>>78937521
Based nip speaks the truth
>>78937521
>Obama's son's phone
lol
>>78938563
>>78938655
Plenty of other small business can afford it because they're properly run by intelligent people who know how to get the biggest bang for your buck. 15 dollars an hour skilled laborers will work better than 10 dollars an hour highschoolers who just want weed money.
>>78937916
The corporations who's employee base are primarily minimum wage aren't mega wealthy. There have been a few studies and figures that show a hike in min wage without an equal hike in prices would break them.
It makes sense when you look at it. You can't sell a cheeseburger for 2 dollars or 10 nuggets for 1.50 without paying min wage to the people selling these products.
>>78938249
Do you go out you liberal fuckihg shit student?
I bought a $25 phone at store and it worked just fine. It's even color screen. These niggers consider $50 internet on Twitter as "living expenses" >>78938249
$8.25 an hour is actually A LOT for your cheap realestate and low living prices.
>>78937306
quality bantz
>>78932969
You can't step in the same river twice.
Acting in the world, changes the world.
All narratives act as if they are static, but they are just narrating the state of a recursion. Whether the recursion is in equillibrium doesn't depend on the narrative, but on the world it describes.
We should have been raising the minimum wage all along. We should have had high taxes on the rich.
This has nothing to do with people or their morals or what they need, and everything to do with economic equilibrium.
But the other side of that is that the economy doesn't exist. It is a narrative of agreements of how we are going to behave. It is a tool we use to get along.
If the tool no longer works, why do you continue to use it?
Fix it, or find another tool.... Find another story. Find another agreement.
>>78932969
They don't understand economics. By their logic, the 1940s must have been dreadful because the minimum wage was less than $5.00 in today's money. They don't realize how few people work for minimum.
But this is all a side topic. The underlying reason wages haven't kept up with inflation is that the federal reserve has been inflating the currency at a very fast pace.
>>78938712
>and the job is most likely non essential
Yeah because burguers cook themselves and food are magically placed from kitchen to tables
>>78937521
Chinese smartphones are extremly cheap I've seen some of then as low as $40 with the same specs as a "luxury phone", but even brand smartphones (Motorola, LG, Smasung...) has some "basic smartphones" as low as $60, but instead of 4GB of RAM you have 1GB, instead of octa/quadcore, you have a dual core, and probably a 4" screen, etc....
People complaining about "expensive smatphones" ae just kiddy millenials that want the last Iphone or Galaxy Ssomething
>>78939024
Nah m8, I just researched and went into a cheap hotel run by two elderly folks.
Paying 470 a month with free internet and cable. Plus I live in florida where the living cost is dirt cheap. Literally saving 500 dollars a month and can probably save up enough money to get a van and buy some land in a year or two.
America is fucking beautiful, man, land of opportunity. I'm white as snow venezuelan, I don't get government benefits like cubans do. And those fuckers ruined my country. So nope, no gibsmedats, just being a responsible ass resident and working for a living and not falling for the college meme. Feels fucking eggsclent.
>work in low skill jobs
>demand high skill pay
shiggy
>>78938495
I'm on a phone so I can't make a detailed response, so here goes.
I think your view is too corporation-centric. Corporations do need to exist, but they exist because they satisfy a need of their customer. They exist in the context of a market where they serve the needs of a consumer.
Know that I'm not disagreeing with you on several things.
Indeed, there is a difference between a minimum living wage and a minimum "comfy" wage. I support a minimum "comfy" wage because it's better at keeping revolts from happening. It also spurns economic advancement because there are consumers available to market toward.
It is also true that nowadays, jobs exist that aren't necessary or the market does not command a living wage for such a job. Automation is taking us into brave new world where we don't have to work to survive, much like the agricultural revolution freed us to specialize and think.
I don't have an answer for people making close to minimum wage being angered by a rise in the minimum wage.
>>78932969
That's like almost 1600$ a month provided you work 8 hours a day 6 day a week.
If you can't live with that then the problem isn't your wage it's the overinflation of everything else.
I worked a minimum wage job for years..
Still do.
Would never survive if not living at parents home.
How the fk do you escape a low paying job without fkin up your life?
>>78932969
>I can't survive on a student job salary
What's next? Protesting about the fact that fire is hot?
>>78939765
But it's pretty hot mate, try throwing a frikandel or two in it and you'll see.
$22 an hour? Is she fucking out of her mind? So now a McDonalds burger will cost like 15$ and a real burger will cost like $35. All changing the minimum wage does in drive inflation.
>>78939574
>Yeah because burguers cook themselves
They don't but we have machines now. A robot that can flip burgers is $30,000 or so and getting cheaper. Now when you have a guy in Mexico, if he worked for $3.50/day every day, he costs $1,277.50, or payback time of 24 years if the robot doesn't break down. Now if you have a person in the US working for $15/hr, 32 hour weeks (usually the limit to not have to offer health insurance), 50 weeks a year, that's $24,000, not including payroll taxes (and the robot can work every hour the store is open, doesn't get sick, doesn't take vacation, etc.), then your breakeven is VERY different on whether or not the robot is worth it.
>food are magically placed from kitchen to tables
In future years robots may do this, but if you eliminate all other duties except for one person to be a food runner, it's a lot cheaper than employing an entire kitchen. US restaurants are already doing this with servers, replacing 5-6 servers per shift with one and moving the ordering/payment to a tablet at each table.
>>78939684
Put more effort into finding something than walking into your favorite fast food restaurant. I don't know Bongland much, but I would be surprised if there aren't decent paying warehouse jobs you could go to instead
>>78932969
It will end when only two castes are left.
>the intellectual liberal rich caste
>the poor
>>78939925
If they would pay 22/h
They could start demanding a college degree and a professional standard, which will basically exclude the niggers who work there now.
>>78939289
So the 15 bucks is the tipping point?
>>78939925
>All changing the minimum wage does in drive inflation.
Except inflation rose when minimum wage stayed the same. 15 dollars an hour would roughly equal what minimum wage was in the 70s, adjusted for inflation.
By your own thinking, you are for 15 bucks an hour, and capping min wage to inflation.
>>78939174
Dumb shit.
Here is some math and mechanics.
I try to structure my service where about 30-50 dollars per hour is generated. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less.
How do I get this work?
Personal networking and sales techniques among people with disposable income. The dues I paid were years in the making where I learned how to present myself as credible and professional.
It would be handy to have someone around to take care of a few mindless tasks to save me some time. It's chimp-tier work, but it's time.
If some random kid wanted to mill around and be my gopher for a little money, cool.
If the government thinks that kid deserves half my revenue for standing around doing mostly nothing, then said person will simply not be hired. Ever.
I can do it. It's no problem.
A barber can sweep his own hair, but back in the day my dad would stop by and earn a few juvenile bucks from the nice man who had a few to spare.
Nigs at McDonalds think the world begins and ends with their circumstances, and want the friendly government to help enforce the gibs mentality.
The retards at General Motors thought some line worker could smoke pot at lunch and earn 85 bucks per hour forever and ever.
Lol.
Viva Mexico!
>>78932969
Fucking nigger-burgers incapable even to understand what 'survive' means.
8$/hour is 3 times larger than mine own pay.
So I own a computer, pay for internet, pay for my flat and can get semi-decent food (though you need to know where to buy it).
>>78939938
Severs in the US make sub $2/hr. The payback period for a substantial investment in autonomous servers would be considerable.
>>78940417
in the 70's the housing pricing weren't artificially fucked up to the point they are now.
It's what this guy said
>>78939670
>If you can't live with that then the problem isn't your wage it's the overinflation of everything else.
>>78939684
Learn or use a skill
Here in California the minimum wage is $10 per hour.
Data entry tends to pay $12 per hour.
All one needs to do is type quicker than 45wpm for over 40 hours.
>>78932969
Maybe if they cut corporate income tax in half and eliminated the employers obligation to pay benefits.
>>78933477
>15 = 1,000,000
Pretty much conservative logic in a nutshell.
>>78939938
>replacing waitresses and waiters
I don't see the point honestly. They already essentially work "for free" and live on tips. I don't see how they're a resource drain. Yeah I get replacing shanaynay at McDonald's or grandpa Steve at target cuts costs but not wait staff.
>>78940703
And take evening classes to make something more of yourself
I could never work full time with no outlook on something better or developing myself.
>$22
people are going fucking mental. this is nowhere near sustainable and you're BECKONING total automation by demanding such things.
fuck dude did i pick the right career with that in mind, even spoke on the exact matter during recent schooling.
those kids with the placards seem mostly content with multiple layers of clothing, earbuds, and the latest generation of iphone with accompanying case.
i can hardly wait to have a robotic burger.
Higher minimum wage means employers will need to raise their cost to consumers to maintain profitability. That in turn reduces the buying power of the dollar, and essentially we're right back to people who feel entitled to a higher minimum wage because they can't afford to buy everything they want right now.
>>78932969
You know this will accelerates the automation right? So, isn't it good to raise minimum wage?
>>78940417
>15 dollars an hour would roughly equal what minimum wage was in the 70s, adjusted for inflation.
No it would not. The highest historical minimum wage correlates to $11 per hour in 2013 dollars.
>>78939420
>>78932969
>$22 minimum wage
That's almost what I make as an engineer with a degree...wtf
>>78940578
>Severs in the US make sub $2/hr. The payback period for a substantial investment in autonomous servers would be considerable.
Wages of servers in the US varies, some states disallow use of the tip credit. Anyhow, even in states where the tip credit is allowed, the Ziosk tablet and the ilk are around $500 a pop, or 225 hours of one server, and they offer upsells, and you don't have to pay payroll taxes on them, etc...
It'll be a while before robots actually deliver the meals to the table jetsons style, but cheap computers now are already replacing most of the servers at a lot of more affordable American restaurants. Olive Garden is going to give them to all their stores.
Increasing the minimum wage either increases the amount of money an employer has to contribute if the employee cannot make enough in tips to reach the minimum wage, and you also have the employees in the back who are going to expect wage increases too if everyone up front is now making way more then them plus tips.
>>78933074
Works well.
> Your inflation will rise and everyone is poor.
>>78932969
Why do these fucking niggers complain
Us third worlders survive $15 a fucking day.
He should go back to fucking Africa if he wants low cost of living since white people oppresses them anyway.
$22 an hour would be like a nuclear bomb on black employment and small businesses. Ghettos everywhere, welfare expenditure grows wildly, rising crime levels. I know it's a cliché but it doesn't cease being true, the minimum wage is not $8.25 an hour, it's always $0.
But, of course, no one cares. They just want to see those numbers going up and then they'll complain that they can't find a job anymore and ask the government for more gibs. Also whitey is raycis!
You know what, I welcome it. Bring on the robots and we'll figure it out from there.
>>78936614
Dude that's nothing. I was making less than minimum wage before my hard work was finally noticed and I was given a job as a chef at Wendy's. Now I make around $75k/year.
>>78932969
lol, soon robots are gonna take over anyway, so even if they get 15/22$ an hour, it ain't gonna mean jack shit.
>>78940563
can you buy nice shoes though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZeAG0H0dIg
Stop buying an ounce of weed every week and a pack of cigarettes every day or two.
>>78941098
Once robots take over capitalism is dead.
>>78939938
But when all the companies build all the machines and fires all the workers, where will the customers get the money to buy the burgers?
People in the US used to get paid a dollar a day. Why hasn't the economy collapsed when the minimum wage was raised to $8.25?
You are confusing the static for the dynamic. You are looking at the river as if the water doesn't flow....
The equilibrium of the economy between supply and demand is gone. The economies of the world are in recession: that means the dynamics are slowing down and less stuff is being traded.
People who argue against the minimum wage do not have a narrative of economics that is either consistent, or reflects the world.
The Chicago school has been clearly proven wrong. Without wealth distribution, the system will stall. You can choose between taxes or wages, but the demand side has to be bolstered or you will tank the whole thing.
The option of the wealthy and their delusional self interest is to shrink the economy so only they can participate. This is suicide.
>>78941195
Not really, the big wigs will just move to the robotics industry.
>>78932969
>Do the Democrats and their backers realize that they will be pricing a ton of humans out of jobs because it won't be worth it to have them anymore?
That never happens in real life. That's because the workers have more money to spend, they buy more stuff, the sellers sell more stuff, but a little more goes to employees rather than shareholders.
The net result is fewer people in poverty, more people paying taxes, people can afford health care coverage, etc.
Can anyone explain the pro $15/$22 an hour arguments?
As someone that makes far more than that why would that benefit me?
>>78941412
I like how liberals always spew this theoretical autism even when it's proven wrong time and again
Seriously all 15/22$ minimal wage is gonna do is cause inflation, which then they'll ask for 30/50$ an hour.
And also MINIMAL WAGE SHOULD BE FUCKING BANNED, because it is a racist concept.
>>78937149
then die.
>>78941105
Surprisingly yes. After all this shit with EU and sanctions our own industries started to get out of the woodwork.
Tula now has probably one of the best shoes price/quality ratio. Around 60$. That's not a small investment for me but they do cost it and work for 3 years at least.
>>78940798
We don't need the Jetsons style robots to replace servers, just a tablet at the table. Chilis is doing this, Olive Garden is going to expand it to all restaurants, etc... a tablet is $500. So lets do some math.
We'll ignore that some states like California require the real minimum wage to be paid up front and don't allow use of the tip credit (e.g. employers can't pay $2/hr to servers). We'll also assume (generously) that the employees will all still make at least $22/hr after tips, meaning we can still pay them $2.13/hr with the tip credit.
Lets say a restaurant has sixty tables, and four people wait those tables (15 tables per person). Four servers at $2.13/hr times eight hours restaurant open time, times 365 days a year. This puts the cost of keeping four people (or more, some combination of people but point being four people at a given time every day for eight hours per day) = $24,878.40. This ignores payroll taxes, uniforms, etc.
Now let's say I buy a $500 tablet per table that takes payments and handles food ordering. $500 * 60 tables = $30,000. We also have to have at least one server, to actually bring the food to the table - but they no longer need to go checking on people for orders, refills, etc. table to table, the tablet does this for us. This puts us at $4,138 for the single server, or $34,138 for year one. This puts the year one cost at about $10,000 higher vs. the humans.
However, the $30,000 is a fixed expense. In year 2 we just have the $4,138 for the one employee again, or about $39,000, versus the $48000+ for year 2 with four servers. The tablets also offer upsells (e.g. make the margarita 50% larger for $3) and combos (this red wine would be great to go with your pasta).
Thus the economics aren't that simple, and casual sit down restaurants have figured out these make a lot of sense.
>>78941558
There is literally nothing more autistic than the alternative """solutions""" though.
>supermarket raises wages by 20%
>starts bullying staff into leaving
>starts firing people for trivial reasons
>have half the staff we had before with the same workload
>just work harder goy eheheh
>>78940991
It's already beginning. I don't disagree that this will happen. I was simply reaffirming this is a long-term project and not an overnight situation.
>>78941726
Such as?
my dudes, I just realized I can live an entire two days with just 8.25 USD, given the lifestyle I lead
would you like to donate a single hour of your work and help me reach Wednesday?
>>78941726
What alternative? You mean the one where you get a skillset in demand with a market value higher than minimum wage? Or the alternative where you whine like a retarded piece of shit to get paid more for a job any schmuck can do
>>78932969
lel min wage here is $7.25
>>78941245
Most people aren't working for minimum wage.
Much of what's wrong with the economy is wasted talent. People with the potential to earn more, and thus spend more, aren't moving up. HR doesn't understand how to hire or retain good people. Few business wants to train anyone. The only way to get a raise is by leaving and going elsewhere. Entry level jobs don't match the number of people coming out of colleges and universities. The educated labor gets pushed down into areas where they can't hope to pay back their student loans.
/pol/ fails to realize that wages have been stagnant for everybody besides upper class for a long time now. Wages should be increased across the board.
>>78939947
LOL I worked warehouse, loved it too..
Went on holiday with the next shift the day I got back from holiday..
Packing for holiday, they ring up and say it's been moved forward a week.
>poor life decision follows
...ain't nothing like a road trip went your driving
>>78940417
look at australia and the prices for a burger over there. and look here too, I'm trying to buy a recorder instrument online from the cuck central of Canada where minimum wage is 15. Recorder here costs 7.68, in usa it costs 3.50.
>>78942117
The free market rewards only those who have relevant skills. If you aren't being paid much you aren't worth much. Deal with it.
>>78932969
Raise minimum wage to $15
Prices for everything increase by 30-40%
People on minimum wage are still in the same limitation of buying power.
Middle class suffers more from the spike of minimum wage.
Are liberals really this retarded to think increasing the amount of money in the economy will fix everything, and rent won't spike up, or cost for food?
>>78932969
Automation is coming anyways, with or without a minimum wage people can actually live on. Stop using this shit as an excuse.
>>78939420
>>78940983
You do realize that people living on minimum wage used to actually be able to live alone, or even raise kids, right? Try that shit on minimum wage today and see how far it gets you.
Shit thinking like this is why I'm glad libertarians are a laughing stock.
>>78941585
> all 15/22$ minimal wage is gonna do is cause inflation
Raising wages doesn't cause inflation. Inflation causes wages to rise. You've been cucked so hard by cuckservatism that you fail to understand this simple concept. Keep fighting for the man, goy.
>>78941883
>you can fund a white argie /pol/ock for $4 a day
in the arms of an angeelllll
>>78935569
you used to be able to raise a family on minimum wage
>>78942212
minimum wage job should be a temporary job, NOT a full time job
>>78941618
You seem like a man who knows zen
>One japanese zen monk once said to a man:
>- You don't get paid enough for a living? Than die. Do you live to work or work to live?
>>78942256
I have kids now. It ain't bad.. I buy new clothes for Christmas.
>>78935092
> Oh no, I can't buy 5 burgers for X ameridollars, only 4 now. Damned minimum wage!
>>78941699 here
Our earlier assumptions ignore that in certain states the costs are far higher. California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Montana, and Minnesota all require that the federal or state minimum wage (whichever is higher) must be paid - even to tipped employees. A lot of others have a higher non-tipped credit or a higher tip credit than $2.35, starting at $5-$7 tipped, throwing off the calculations even further.
>but I hate robots and job loss
Most of america will care about the burger being $5 cheaper at their restaurant then they will about humans having jobs. About a third of the country goes to Walmart every week even though they're horrible to their employees and abusive to their suppliers.
>>78942032
>Most people aren't working for minimum wage.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/archive/characteristics-of-minimum-wage-workers-2014.pdf
>In 2014, 77.2 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.7 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 1.3 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 3.0 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 3.9 percent of all hourly paid workers.
Still, the federal minimum wage is a $1-$2 lower than most state minimum wages, which greatly reduces this figure, and then the increase from more than doubling the federal minimum wage (well past all state minimum wages) would greatly distort this too.
>>78939011
>b-but that sounds like hard work!
>>78942373
>nigger on minimum wage has ps4, pc a bed and is fat in the ass
I need more monies Mann Dez white cracks nigga
>>78942440
>Most of america will care about the burger being $5 cheaper at their restaurant then they will about humans having jobs
This is the fact.
People like to front like they care about the human cost of things.
If we did, we wouldn't have a perpetual war machine as our biggest export.
>>78932969
>I want to live in "the city" but I don't want to do any training or improve my skills. I should be provided for because I don't want to leave the city.
>>78937149
Boo-hoo I have to compete with other people for a better job, I can't just sit here and wait for money to magically fall on my lap, what a tragedy.
>>78932969
You're not worth a fucking dollar an hour, you fucking thug.
I just don't understand, there's no 16.50 an hour jobs where i can spend the whole day inside in air conditioning and playing on my phone for half the day this is bullshit. I went to a community college for 2 years where the fuck are all the jobs I was promised?
>>78942440
Your source proves my point exactly, most people aren't working for minimum wage.
3.9% of wage workers is in no way most people.
>>78932969
>Implying blacks works
Nice one
>minimum wage has now so depreciated in value compared to what it was that Americans living on it can't even afford a tiny one bedroom apartment anymore
>wages across the board are depreciating, in large parts thanks to immigration, both legal (H-1Bs) and illegal
>automation is gradually swallowing up so many of the jobs that once were working class, and that people once could raise families one
What's the libertarian reply to this? Pull yourself up by your bootstraps! Live frugally! Just make do with so little compensation for your time you can't even afford to live on your own while GDP is at record highs!
Sooner or later, you have to fucking face the fact that your ideas are being tried, and they're impoverishing everyone, you fucking cucks.
>>78942373
The real world impact of a price increase gets contributed to by everyone that touches it, from the person who farms to the person who cooks it and serves it.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422049/study-showing-15-dollar-hour-fast-food-wages-would-raise-prices-only-4-percent-very
>Labor accounts for a quarter to a third of the average fast-food restaurant’s costs. Currently, wages in the fast-food industry run around $9 an hour. Going to $15 an hour means increasing pay by over 50 percent. Prices would have to rise by at least one-sixth (50 percent multiplied by one third) to cover the base-wage increases. Of course, those price increases would drive some customers away, so restaurants would need to raise prices again. But as a baseline, prices would have to rise by at least one-sixth.
>Most Americans eat fast food because it is fast and cheap. When prices rise, sales fall — a lot. Studies find a 10 percent increase in fast-food prices cuts sales by 9.5 percent. So fast-food restaurants will need further price increases to cover fixed costs such as rent. In equilibrium, prices rise by about double the amount needed to initially cover the higher wages.
>>78942757
And that was my point, but a couple things to make the point that it isn't quite 4%.
1) The OP image complains of a minimum wage of $8.25 not being liveable. That is a state minimum wage in certain states. The federal BLS doesn't include them in that 3.9% statistic, since they're making more than the federal minimum wage of $7.25
2) This would likely become much higher of a percentage if minimum wage were increased federally to $15 or $22.
>>78932969
how bought we all be millionaires? million dollars an hour
>>78937707
there is nothing wrong with more wages to workers stupid kike,
>>78932969
Most people on this planet survive on less than $8.25/DAY.
>>78942117
Lel do you think the free market actually exists? The market is manipulated by those who control it.
In 30 years, GDP has increased 9-fold, population hasn't quite doubled, and yet wages are nearly the same.
???
>>78932969
My rent is around 850 a month with utility, I've got a fairly big two bedroom townhome. My roommate cuts that down to about $425 a month. With my various other bills and cost of food I'm looking at about $600 a month and I have a lot of money left over. We both make $9.50 an hour. Just stop being bad with your money you fucking liberal shits.
>>78943116
you are being intentionally retarded, there is sufficient profits from their work to have higher pay, if the workers weren't cock blocked and literally strangled by immigration they could enforce their rightful pay.
>>78943116
see
>>78940787
At least conservative "logic" is consistent.
>>78943350
you are literally a cuck.
And once they're unemployed, they'll push for universal basic income. It's a grand strategy
>>78942842
>wages across the board are depreciating, in large parts thanks to immigration, both legal (H-1Bs) and illegal
B O R D E R
C O N T R O L
>automation is gradually swallowing up so many of the jobs that once were working class
This is going to happen overnight if you raise the minimum wage to $22. By all means, go ahead and do it because I can barely wait for it to happen already.
Major recession inbound, colossal government collapse, away with the welfare system and hello to negative income tax. We'll get this show on the road yet and have our small government. Do it, bitch.
>>78942842
Thinking that more than doubling the federal minimum wage is a bad idea and the "bootstraps" reply are not ideas that have to be held hand in hand. Cost of living changes are going to displace people, but knee-jerk drastically hiking the minimum wage so a lot of people go from $8.25/hr to the real minimum wage ($0) when their job doesn't exist anymore is not the solution either. Basic minimum income will likely be a better answer.
>>78943272
The cost of living in the United states, especially many parts of it, is well higher than many parts of the world. The fact that the cost of living is so much lower in many other territories is one of the reasons globalization has lead to so much outsourcing.
By the way, H1-B visas are often devaluing much higher than minimum wage jobs - really jobs that make $80K-$120K - since once you get a worker to $60K you have to provide basically no proof that they aren't displacing an American. H1-Bs are not really destroying the jobs of people with minimum wage. Illegal immigrant labor does hurt lower end jobs.
>>78942236
Wages haven't even adjusted for inflation for a long time and now you think higher wages will lead to more inflation?
>>78943350
Where?
After living in Hawaii a couple years I'd like to move some where efficiencies aren't $1000+/month
>>78943437
until the country in bankrupt. The US isn't doing so great in that department as it is.
Get a better job. Don't saddle yourself with debt. Do you really *need* that iPhone, how much did that cost?
>>78943507
>Basic minimum income will likely be a better answer.
What does that solve?
>>78932969
minimum wage simply isn't enough for an adult to survive on, even alone.
But I doubt the gobment is going to jack up minimum wage because a bunch of failures failed to make anything of themselves. What they need to do is take out a loan, go to trade school, and get a job that earns them decent money.
>>78942318
This argument is retarded, it assumes the economy HAS enough well paying low skill jobs for the majority of average non-college educated adults. But it fucking doesn't, which is why like 60% of my coworkers at my minimum wage retail job are full-time adults with kids. They can't just go get a "real job" because all the lumber mills and factories around here closed decades ago and there aren't that many "real jobs" for people without postsecondary education left.
Like honestly every time this conversation comes up and somebody says "well minimum wage jobs are just for teenagers making summer cash, they don't have to be REAL jobs" I instantly know that that person has put 0 thought into their viewpoint and knows nothing about the real world
>>78932969
Still they have money for some sort of smartphone and medium quality clothes.
I don't understand how you could be dumb enough to think increasing minimum wage and doing nothing about the immigration problem is a good thing i don't understand what logic the Liberal brain works on it's just this is the nice thing to do lets do this as if the world was a movie where just doing the nice thing is always best and makes everything work out for the better. They'er so disconnected for reality it's scary.
>>78941455
unless you're over 75k-100k a year or more you'll likely see a raise as well. When the 7.50 earners get 15 the 15 earners will get 20 then the 20 earners will get 22-23. Much higher than that and you get low salary earners like min wage job managers or district managers. They'll be getting an increase as well.
>>78943711
In the end there will be people that have no skill to society that is worth offering, we won't have to euthanize them and they won't starve to death. It won't be an extremely comfortable lifestyle but they'll get to live. A basic safety net for society for those who can't provide skills of economic worth to society so they don't die.
Providing guaranteed minimum income means a basic safety net for society - not one that would be the level most people would want - and would be a lot more efficient to give than current social programs since everyone would get it.
>>78943801
>take out a loan
Good goyim.
>>78943917
>When the 7.50 earners get 15 the 15 earners will get 20 then the 20 earners will get 22-23.
Why will they?
Can you show me an example of this happening in the past?
>>78943928
>In the end there will be people that have no skill to society that is worth offering
Maybe in the distant future. But how does that solve any problems for people today?
>>78943917
>you'll likely see a raise as well
But with the price of goods increasing will that benefit me? Best case it stays the same
>unless you're over 75k-100k a year or more you'll likely see a raise as well.
I am right at that threshold and will be advancing here shortly
>>78943522
Profits generated by the workers increases, the value of the worker decreases as the worker population is being inflated.
>>78943917
Why the fuck would you get a raise?
>>78943802
They could have seriously gone to school and learned how to weld or work on cars or something. Not everyone needs to go to college to make a decent living. A lot of those jobs are in demand anyway. There's not enough machinists and car techs and welders that actually know what they're doing rn, at least in my part of Texas.
>>78943916
It's just propaganda for gaining votes.But who knows...anyway we will find out.
>>78932969
>we want 10 kids and we want you to pay for them, why can't i have 10 kids while working a 15 hour a week $8.25 job! This infringes on my rights!
>we can't live on $8.25 an hour
Maybe you should have thought of that when you decided to settle for a shit job rather than making yourself more valuable through a good education or skill.
I make $7.25 an hour, and put as much of it as I can into an education. 3 years from now I will have a degree in plant science and will be making far more than $7.25, with no debt.
Why devalue everyone's pay just because some idiots can't better themselves k
>>78944214
Same reason they make more money to begin with? They need to draw in talent.
>>78943711
A negative income tax can be used to negate all other forms of welfare. It reduces the size of government spectacularly and in government lies the waste. The simple redistribution of money, while a hindrance, would be a thousandfold more effective if not bogged down by incomprehensible layers of bureaucracy that make it so the money they take from the "givers" is less than a tenth of what reaches the "takers."
It would be an implementable solution even today. Guarantee you you'd pay less taxes and be better off, the (now former) "poor" would live better and have a chance to improve their lives if they so chose and government would decrease in size in record levels.
>>78944178
A smaller population of workers forces their bosses to be instead parts of the whole instead of a separate entity dominated the laborers, as the boss is at the mercy of the workers.
>>78944253
Fuck off with your white privilage.
>>78944319
>Same reason they make more money to begin with?
Why would they make more money?
>>78943917
How would those companies survive?
Why the fuck are unskilled laborers getting more than skilled laborers? In what world does that make sense?
>>78944393
Why does money exist?
>>78935092
Why can't we just sterilize all male niglets at birth?
No more dirty black bucks running around dropping loads and taking off on their responsibilities.
Problem solved.
Why should we have to shell out to take care of niggers?
>>78944451
It's an effective medium of exchange. It exists because barter economies are inefficient.
>>78944534
And why do some people earn more than others?
>>78944489
This. It would be nice if we could make it illegal for people on welfare to reproduce. To be allowed to reproduce you need to prove you can support your children without being a drain on the state. Why not?
Assuming we get a $15 or $22 miminum wage, what will be the left's excuse when it fails?
>>78944575
They're more valuable to society; they make more money for their bosses
As someone who works min wage low skilled jobs and probably will the rest of his life if you have any modicum of work ethic and relaibility you can not work for min wage for more than 6 months.
Turnover in these places (at least in my area) is so fucking high that you'll be managing the place in about 6-8 months of employment.
My last job I started at 9 dollars an hour and by my 7th month they were pushing me really hard to go to management training and come back as assistant manager making about 12 an hour with the promise that by my 1 year anniversary of employment I'd be managing the store for about 40-45k a year. Granted that's not much money for the hours I'd be working but it's enough to live on comfortably and my workload would be mostly paper, schedules, and dealing with customers instead of stocking shelves and cleaning the store.
Same in fast food. I had a friend make shift manager at mcdonalds after 5 months working there. A guy I went to school with was working at a hardware store and ended up running the warehouse after 9 months. They even sent him to dirty houston and put him up at a fancy hotel for some manager training conference.
>>78932969
right now you may have company owners who are BILLIONAIRES and maybe 20 000 people working for them who are POOR
if 15/hour goes through people will have EQUAL opportunities to invest money
stop slavery and if you´re against 15/hour you´re driving the country towards chinese suicide factory direction
mfw living alone on 4.85€/h and I have a car.
>>78943996
It's common sense, I make $100k/yr and I went to college and work my brain and work my ass off to get what would be $48/hr equivalent for 52 weeks with 40hr weeks (I get four weeks paid vacation but also work well more than forty hours)
I might not get a proportional 5x increase on the minimum wage but there will be a huge one or fuck it, I can make half the money making coffee, why bother? A lot of semi skilled careers pay well less than that, and under $15/hr, these people are going to quit for easier jobs that pay the new minimum wage to spend the time and money getting qualifications or working harder.
>>78944575
At the best of times, they earn more because the contribute more value to society. There is some corruption of course, but largely people who earn more than others add more value to society than they get paid for. That's the entire basis of capitalism as a mechanism for wealth generation.
>>78944648
Exactly.
Why would that cease being a function if we raise the floor?
>>78944648
>>78944758
Because then unskilled laborers, or people who do jobs that don't generate a lot of money, are now making as much money as people who contribute more to society? idk
>>78944230
Because your part of Texas is indicative of all of North America right?
Fucking christ /pol/ These anecdotal arguments are garbage.
>>78944842
Why would people who contribute to society not get a bump to their earnings?
GDP has increased 9 times while population only increased 40% and wages remained the same.
So what op is saying that its the slaves fault for the greed of their masters? that economic punishment will be the consequence God forbid they have to part with a percentage of profits?
I understand money and the only way I would do what current CEO's are doing is if I couldnt give a fuck for the situation of other people unless I got paid in surplus plentifully.
>in b4 but anon X amount of billions/millions in salary isnt enough for these CEOs they provide jobs and work hard.
>in b4 flipping burgers isnt grueling because its simple
The majority of you are conditioned to be slaves and to break from contemporary programming may be difficult for some, I do not expect much serious rebuttal to my notion.
>>78944758
It wouldn't. But the amount of value people add to society won't raise by raising the minimum wage. Many of them will become more expensive to hire then they can provide in value.
>>78944963
I see your point
>>78932969
Wouldn't prices just adjust for the wage increase?
If there's more demand then supply , just increase the price
Am I missing something here?
>>78944963
And how much has technology progressed?
So if raising minimum wage increases costs/inflation. Why is there no argument for lowering the mimimum wage, let's say $3 an hour? Wouldn't that drive costs down across the board?
>>78944963
>Why would people who contribute to society not get a bump to their earnings?
why would they? They don't provide any extra value than they did before.
>GDP has increased 9 times while population only increased 40% and wages remained the same.
wage increases started to decouple from productively increases when the US left the gold standard and began a policy of juicing interest rates whenever the economy felt like it could be better. It basically results in more more going to rich people and less to the poorer.
Raising the minimum wage doesn;t somehow fix this. It makes things worse.
>>78945416
There is. Turns out people on minimum wage don't like the idea.
Germany didn't have any minimum wage until recently.
>>78945416
Yes it would. No minimum wage would mean they'd pay some worker left but also hire more people.
That's the irony of unions et al - they protect ONLY those who are currently working. Fuck increasing employment.
>>78941018
But everyone being poor works great in Africa. We can just leech off other countries.
>>78945365
Nope.
>>78945535
Any major/good sources that say this? I can never seem to find any that use this arguement.
>>78945010
Its the other way around. Their value is already higher than the minimum wage.
The problem is capital. In a capitalist society capital is the single most important thing, because your capital is what you leverage to make more capital. Like a massive game of poker, its very hard to beat a person with deep pockets, he can just double down every time he loses and eventually will wipe you out by winning just once. That is the power of capital, and it is inherently exploitative.
>We can't survive on $8.25/hr
Holy fucking niggers man, 8.25 dollars = 70 SEK, and i survived on 55 SEK for 2 years which is $6.42, and i worked hard, 9 hours a day.
Fucking niggers man, they always complain and when they get money they waste it on weed and blame the white people.
>>78945000
>>78945000
Nice trips but I guess not being a greedy piece of shit is not a valid argument to these people. They prefer the competing slave deal.
>>78945942
>Their value is already higher than the minimum wage.
How do you figure that exactly? There's a huge labour market for low skilled workers. Are you saying all employers in america are conspiring to keep wages low or something? If any company wanted low skill workers and offered minimum wage, and then couldn't find them, in order to stay in business they'd have to offer a higher wage to attract more labour. That doesn't happen though because people always work for the minimum wage and there's always enough people to fill the available jobs. That's how you know how much something is worth.
The value of something is only what people are willing to pay for it. No one cares what anything thinks it *should* be.
>>78945000
>>78946087
You realize there are ID's on this board right?
>we want high payment for work less hours
lol
>>78945416
no goy, deflation is the worst thing that can happen to you!
more purchasing power is totally bad for you, once prices start to fall everyone will stop consuming because they would wait for the prices to go lower and the ecenomy will implode so thats why we need constant inflation and rising prices, trust me goyim
>>78946346
No "rational" employer would hire a worker that didnt contribute more to the employer than he pays the worker.
The question is why should the worker accept this asymmetry, it is because he has no capital unlike the employer.
Marx was quite deluded about communism but he correctly identified capital as the core of the problem
>>78932969
They'll only make the money worth less
>>78946754
>The question is why should the worker accept this asymmetry
What asymmetry?
The employers parts with his money to receive the labour of the worker, which he finds more valuable then anything else he can spend the money on at that time.
The employee gives his labour and time to the employer in exchange for the money, which he finds more valuable than anything else he can spend his time and labour on at that time.
What's asymmetric about it? also, why is "rational" in quotes? Why would any employer hire someone who provided less value to the company than he cost in wages and other expenses?
