>be Italy
>be the seventh bmost developed nation once (before joining EU)
>be the third EU contriubtor
>only give shit in return
Italexit when? Who's going to pull that off? Grillo has already said no (he flip flopped when the polls give remain in advantage as I suspected), Salvini maybe? Renzi (AHAHAHAAHAHAH)?
>>78534011
Renzi got fucking destroyed this week, he's probably contemplating suicide as we write
>>78534011
What do you want in return? Compliments for having made a couple of reforms the rest of the world already made 20 years ago??
>>78534011
>implying we can afford to exit EU with our shit government
That would be suicide, fellow spaghettifag. We aren't prepared as a country to sustain ourselves without Europe's laws and rules. Most of them suck and fuck us in the ass, it's true, but if EU left us alone we would probably destroy ourselves from within.
We must change our politicians first. Then we can exit and flip off everyone.
>>78534468
maybe a bit of flexibility, because, you know, I don't want to become like Greece8and this is exactly where we're leading up to?) what does the EU give? It doesn't even protect our food anymore since it lets tunisi oil in.
>>78534546
Don't loose your hope anon, we were gerat once, divided, returned great against all odds, destroyed, returned great again. We can do it, we have already done this in the past. We need to put our shit togheter and fight like we always do.
next ITAEXIT
>>78534011
Better do it fast fampai, you're already tanking faster than the UK
It's called Italeave, not Itaexit or Italexit
>>78535632
like we always do oon a crisis time: the markets love doing this with us, at this point I just want to exit EU, declare bankruptcy, put down Germany with us and start again. shock>slow bleed.
>>78534011
Renzi is already on suicide watch. PD is destroying itself. Maybe in a few years it will happen
>>78534011
how about qt3.14 raggi
God speed, Italia
also fuck Conte for not bringing Bonaventura to Euro
>>78534011
>lazy, corrupted, uneducated
Sure m8 you will do great on your own
>>78536370
Id fuck her desu, love shitskins :^)
>>78536522
A
FUCKING
MEDIKIT
>>78535632
>ftse
>-1.8
Its not even that bad
>>78535217
I admire your hope and optimism, but we aren't absolutely ready for a move like this [spoiler]just like UK wasn't[/spoiler].
We talked about this in another thread and two things could happen if Italy left EU:
>Italy finally realizes we must not bend over to shit countries like Romania and China and finally gives itself good rules, kicking gypsies and corrupted politicians out, cutting all the lifelong pensions and revenues those bastards have and using the money for health care, school system, and turism. Also closing borders and letting in only a specific number and kind of immigrants, basically flipping off EU and its stupid "muh human rights" "muh fees"
>Italy literally cannot survive without Merkel telling us what to do and sells itself to the slavs and chinese more than it's already doing, making stupid commercial pacts with them and letting even more immigrants come in because they can be used as labor. The lira isn't worth shit and our rich culture and food are soiled by our partners.
>>78534011
Imperium Romanum when?
>>78534011
You mean Italeave, right?
>>78535217
we already spend more than 50% of our GDP in public expenditure, having at the same a government debt at 133%. Flexibility is impossible for us.
>>78534011
We can't, it's impossible thanks to our constitution.
>>78537054
It will be a mix of the 2
We won't kick out the politicians, we'll kick out the gypsies, we'll close the borders and start murdering our own currency with a giant spiral of debt
Inflation will rise, foreign products become insanely expensive while italian products thrive
Eventually it'll be good for us overall, with the only catch being that imports will plummet and we'll probably fucking destroy the EU if we do it this year, alongside crippling a ton of foreign industries while our own grow like food, fashion and automobile industries
>>78538011
Yup, we could become China 2.0 and be right next to Europe
>>78534011
No italy, you must vote in conservative leader and push germany to go nazi again.
It's something only you can do.
>>78534011
>italexit
>not QUITALY
http://www.strawpoll.me/10575627
lets put it to a vote, then
>>78538187
>we could become China 2.0 and be right next to Europe
You guys aren't disciplined and hard-working enough to do that
>>78539166
so speak the soon to be caliphate. Don't understiate us.
>>78538187
Basically, only our products would be higher quality and with obviously less shipping fees and with much bigger local control
It'd be really great, we'd have a huge industry boom because of this, with tons of new companies opening up
If our currency loses value, industries are more inclined to open up shop here and not move to asia or eastern europe, and with our own expertise and tradition we'd be unstoppable
Corruption would obviously still be rampant, crime wouldn't disappear but in a growing economy and thriving nation they wouldn't be a serious issue
>>78539166
We wouldn't become sweatshop workers obviously but Italy never favored quantity, we were always a quality focused nation
USCITALIA 2017!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>78534546
What has EU law done other than make laws which u have no vote in? Everyone these days believes propaganda
>>78539655
That sounds wrong
Italia Nostra is probably a better name
>>78534011
there are only two possible scenarios:
#1 you collectively decide to fuck off out of this prison of nations
#2 you reach bankruptcy and ask for an impossible bailout by the ECB, taking DB, BNP et al into insolvency, mercy killing the Euro
I see both options as viable and welcome
>>78539166
Wrong, the south (at this moment) isn't. North Italy is not perfect, but if we have the possibility to gain from working we'll do. I mean, our industries can work and corruption is just a political thing. If there is an employee that doesn't work they'll just kick him out
>>78535965
I cant believe that u anti-exit people have submitted 2 German rule when yur Grandparent or Great Grandparents layed down their lives 2 keep u from being ruled by Germany. U modern Italians cant say yur joining Germany again, can u?
>>78540372
>Italia Nostra
[Scacciapensieri intensify]
>>78539421
Only because the niggers aren't dumb enough to travel all the way to Europe just to end up in Italy.
>>78537054
You're never going to be fully ready ever (/spoiler). You have to just do it.
Yeah, no.
>>78534546
>bla bla bla we can't do it
Shut up you fucking mandolino. If you're chronically pessimist get help from a psychiatrist you retard.
Italy can very well do it, the only thing in its way is people like you
>>78536779
>slavs
>>78537054
>>78538011
The actual truth:
>elect someone who wants to leave the EU
>he leaves the EU
>turns out it was all for his personal gain
>he gets massively rich
>the country starts plummetting
>elect someone who vows to fix it radically
>turns out it was all for his personal gain
>he gets massively rich
>the country keeps plummetting
>at some point one of the politicians finds a way to make money out of promoting North African immigration
>you're overwhelmed with niggers
You have glorious potential, but your mentality would never allow anything like that.
The EU is only good for you, because checks on the sovereignty that is embodied in your POLITICIANS (not the people, your politicians don't represent them) are good. And having the massive competition that is single market means motivation.
All you have to do is go for small victories like Renzi's senate thing and keep it relatively calm. Your economy won't crash, so maybe in 30-40 years, with a generation change as well, you can actually start making massive gains.
>>78534011
>>78534313
>>78534468
But what's the problem, Dagos?
You basically created the EU.
You have a big say in it.
EU is funding all your fucking Italian scientific research because your politicians are too corrupted to allocate a decent amount of GDP to Education.
Europe is also the only force capable of forcing countries to comply with rules about CO2 reduction.
Europe is ALSO needed as a third party... it's basically your only chance to:
>matter internationally
>fight off Russia without having to lick the American ass
Basically, without Europe, Italy is:
>a declining aging economy
>no international relevance
>not even a regional power
>just a hub for American troops
>no chance to fight off both American interests and Putin's interests
>no chance of getting out of the corruption spiral Italy has always had
So, frankly, why the fuck would you leave?
>muh duh Europe is so hard to make it work
Well, pull up your sleeves and make it fucking work.
You don't like your politicians, don't you? Europe is a chance to fuck them from behind.
Moreover, on the plus side, Europe has a chance of:
>allowing regional autonomies
>allowing regional cultures, etc.
>but at the same time allows alll those small regions to matter internationally.
A country with 5 millions inhabitants (like Scotland) or even 10-11 millions like Belgium is irrelevant from a military point of view without a strong coalition of the willing who create a major army.
If you dissolve the EU, Europe will be pulled apart by the fight between Russia, China, America, and all the fucking Muslims.
Why the fuck would you EVER leave? Just so that you can be more and more corrupted.
>>78544339
>EU is funding all your fucking Italian scientific research because your politicians are too corrupted to allocate a decent amount of GDP to Education.
I remember reading this phrase word by word some days ago so i'm pretty sure i already insulted you last time
>>78544339
You're forgetting the fact that Italy has corrupt as fuck politicians and checks on sovereignty might turn out to not be so bad for them.
But hey, we're all caught up in BREXIT FREXIT ITEXIT FUCK YEH, so just ignore it for a while.
Italeave now!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>78544339
>A country with 5 millions inhabitants (like Scotland) or even 10-11 millions like Belgium is irrelevant from a military point of view without a strong coalition of the willing who create a major army.
Should have been more specific:
1. I'm aware that Italy is unified, but I also consider its macro-regions (North-West, North-East, Centre, South, etc.) to have their own individual features.
2. Italy has 65 millions inhabitants, and you must consider that similar countries like France and GB struggle to maintain hegemony all by themselves. In fact they joined the EU for the purpose of competing with super-powers
3. Considering how hard it is for such big countries to compete with super-power, you can figure out how hard it might be for Italy, especially when pulled apart by internal struggles between its regions.
So I was arguing Europe might allow for such regions to exist and thrive with relative autonomy, but without being cucked by foreign powers.
>>78544664
>I remember reading this phrase word by word some days ago so i'm pretty sure i already insulted you last time
EU is LITERALLY helping Italian academia and industry with intravenous feeding.
It is also protecting all your squeamish rules about how good food products must be.
Italy has absolutely no chance of avoiding becoming the new Greece if it leaves.
As far as I know, as soon as you will leave the EU, you will become an American colony... AGAIN.
>>78544205
Renzi's senate reform is garbage
And he's a fucking moron for suggesting it since as the recent local elections just demonstrated he'll get fucking wrecked at general elections
Actually anyone except 5 star movement will get wrecked at elections since the final showdown will have everyone who didn't make it there vote them to fuck over the opposition
Besides the economy in Italy was doing much better in the 90s than nowadays
>>78544668
>>78544668
https://youtu.be/pjihW2gtDTE
The last time a major political scandal happened it literally destroyed politics in the whole country
>>78534011
LET'S TAKE BACK OUR SOVEREIGNITY
#ITALEXIT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1JkhNOcXGo
>>78544668
>You're forgetting the fact that Italy has corrupt as fuck politicians and checks on sovereignty might turn out to not be so bad for them.
Man, that's exactly my point.
Other thing is many Italians know that, and are willing to join a bigger project just to get enough external checks on what Italian press (Which is not free) and Italian politics (which is corrupt) is doing.
Europe is the hope for Italians to get their mafia ways crushed once for all.
But Italians don't like because Europe is the kind of institution that says:
>if you granted funds for Education, you have to spend them on Education -- not industries
And many people don't like to be forced to comply with the plans they have signed.
Withou Europe, Italy is just another rogue state. Will be surpassed by Iran in terms of decency and economic growth in less than 50 years.
>>78544339
>>78544668
>being this much of a cuck
If love Italy so much why did you leave huh? :^)
>>78544664
Yeah this is the same retard from a couple days ago. Just ignore him he shows that he knows nothing
>>78545234
It doesn't seem like last time you got it so i will repeat it again, we pay more to the EU than what we receive, whatever imaginary contribution you think we get it's just a part of our money going back to us
The EU doesn't protect our interests on food either since they let food from everywhere in the world in
>>78545714
>If love Italy so much why did you leave huh? :^)
Hi Kraut. I have the kind of job that requires me to travel.
Stop trolling now.
>>78544339
>Basically, without Europe, Italy is:
Are all things that anyway we are NOW with the Europe.
The Italian problem is a too strong currency EURO which leads to very high level of unemployment and poverty.
BRING BACK THE EMPIRE MOTHERFUCKERS!
YOU NEED A NEW EMPEROR!
HAIL PIRLO! HAIL PIRLO!
>>78545771
Fucking this
The EU doesn't protect us, it damages us by limiting our production
For a country that focuses on production and exports, having laws dictated by bureaucrats and a strong currency is poison
>>78546116
>Pirlo
>not Antonio "Agghiacciande" Conde
NAPOLITANO: ITALY CAN'T ASK FOR A REFERENDUM ABOUT THE EU
>Good Goym won't out.
SALVINI SVEGLIA COGLIONAZZO
>mfw Padania leaves an creates a alpine confederation with Switzerland
>>78534011
I hate western civilization and hope to see you all collapse, and the Brexit really angered me. But visiting Italy, the history, aesthetic architecture, people and culture really caught my heart.
Can anybody tell me what's going on? Is there a chance for an uncuckening?
>>78545771
>we pay more to the EU than what we receive, whatever imaginary contribution you think we get it's just a part of our money going back to us
>The EU doesn't protect our interests on food either since they let food from everywhere in the world in
And this surplus payment is not wasted. It is your ticket to make decisions together with other countries.
What you stop spending on Europe, you will start spending on international agreements.
Or do you unironically believe that if you stop giving funds to Europe all those funds will be returned to the people?
Fuck no. If you stop spending shit on Europe, all the "unlocked" funds will go straight into the pockets of corrupt politicians, or into foreign agreements that will cuck Italy even more than usual.
(cont.)
>>78545565
>Renzi's senate reform is garbage
Yes, there is nothing wrong with your political system.
>>78545714
>If love Italy so much why did you leave huh?
Who the fuck says I'm Italian?
I'm giving you an objective point of view - the EU is good for Italy.
(cont. from >>78547084 )
P.S.: For those of you who don't know Italians, let me explain. Dagos and Wogs are completely disillusioned about their political system. They also love to complain and never move a finger to change things because they are just lazy Mediterranean retards. They don't fight for their rights, but they are happy to complain when such rights are taken away.
The other thing is that many keep thinking things work like 30-40 years ago. For example, suppose an average Dago needs a permit to open an activity. He will go: "muh duh, all that bureaucracy, all those taxes, etc." So he gives up even before trying. The few who actually try have it super-easy... why? Because 2016 Italy is not 1946 Italy, and things have changed. Better streamlined procedures, less bureaucracy, etc. But Italians love so much to complain they don't want to get out of their comfort zone and realize that maybe their country is getting better and better. They love the idea of being unable to make the difference because this quenches their anxiety and relieves them of their responsibilities.
If Italians leave the EU, it is not because EU doesn't work. It is actually because it *does work*, and this makes Italians unahappy because they suddenly cannot complain any more about a system that works.
I suggest Italians start reading shit about how the EU work and they will discover how fucking better it is compared to their own country.
>>78545601
>LET'S TAKE BACK OUR SOVEREIGNITY
So when are you kicking out the Americans from your clay?
Top kek your sovereignty died in 1943.
>>78547206
Italians are basically Balkan slavs with some national pride.
It is known.
>>78545890
>Hi Kraut. I have the kind of job that requires me to travel.
Why don't you get back to it then instead of shitposting on /pol/?
>Stop trolling now.
>Stop trolling now.
>>78547064
Yes the only problem is selfhating Italians who leave the country and talk about how they want the "best interests" for it. Like the retard in this thread. They stand in the way and are probably liberals
>>78547206
Cuck
>>78547084
>It is your ticket to make decisions together with other countries
It is our ticket to get 9% of the votes, big fucking deal
>If you stop spending shit on Europe, all the "unlocked" funds will go straight into the pockets of corrupt politicians
Nice logic, might as well stop collecting taxes, they all go to corrupt politicians anyway, let's just give some unelected old fart in Bruxelles complete control over our economy, we are too dumb to manage it ourselves anyway
Very fitting that you chose an image of a carnival mask for your post since you are a buffoon yourself
>>78546343
>by limiting our production
Man, sorry for the late wake up call.
But life is not all about production, you know?
You can also export services and shit.
So when are you going to fix your tourism industry, for example?
##Without Europe ##
>crappy tourist services
>who fucking cares about quality?
>who fucking cares about maintaining our cultural heritage?
>doesn't need to care because Lira is crap so people will come anyway to eat pizza and pasta at the seaside
## With Europe ##
>OMG low exchange rate will not help us any more
>tfw you realize you have to actually provide GOOD services to get cash out of tourists
>tfw you realize there are many other countries who have already surpassed you in terms of tourist intake and quality of heritage
>tfw all of your museums and historical sites are falling apart
>tfw devaluing your currency doesn't help any more
>tfw you realize you don't sit on a gold chest any more and will actually have to WORK once in your lifetime to make a living
Aw yeah. Europe makes life harder for Italians.
Would you believe that?
It forces them to WORK and be COMPETITIVE!
Isn't this horrible?
>pic related
What Italy kept doing when Lira was weak and tourists were pouring money on it.
>>78547173
>Yes, there is nothing wrong with your political system.
But according to Dagos on this board, leaving EU will save Italy! Could you believe that?
My sides are elsewehere.
>>78548209
>Why don't you get back to it then instead of shitposting on /pol/?
It's Friday night, Kraut.
Aw, sorry Hans. I didn't realize you Krauts work all night long.
>>78547206
>For example, suppose an average Dago needs a permit to open an activity. He will go: "muh duh, all that bureaucracy, all those taxes, etc." So he gives up even before trying. The few who actually try have it super-easy... why? Because 2016 Italy is not 1946 Italy, and things have changed. Better streamlined procedures, less bureaucracy, etc.
But the main complain of investors about italy IS the nightmarish and chaotic bureaucracy.
>>78547206
>2016
>less bureaucracy
>>78548495
So Europe is holding us back to make other European countries seem better?
Why would we be gimped?
Yeah, we have a fantastic tourist intake, and being free from European rule would allow us to fully utilize that
Devaluing our currency only harms OTHER COUNTRIES, because our competition is unbeatable at the low prices we could offer if we were free from the shackles
But according to your twisted mentality we'd have to work more for the same profit? You're a complete idiot if you actually believe that
>>78548495
>It forces them to WORK and be COMPETITIVE!
>COMPETITIVE
>protectionism forces you to be competitive
I can't deal with your stupidity...
>>78548495
>be italian
>"i hate italians and their way grrrrrr >:(("
>"let's be as much of an anti-italian as possible and shill for the eu that'll show them >:)"
>"yeahhh italy go against your selfinterests you are too shit yeahh eu is good for you yeah get cucked it's really good"
>get raped by a kangaroo
>>78540372
please no
>>78548973
>But the main complain of investors about italy IS the nightmarish and chaotic bureaucracy.
Still better than 20 years ago. Still better.
Believe me man, it is slowly getting better. I'm not saying it will turn upside down overnight. I am not promising you a revolution. But it IS getting better. You can notice.
Of course there are still crappy initiatives like the PEC, etc.
I'll stop arguing Europe and make a real life example:
>be me
>in Australia from Italy
>Australians complain about their bureaucracy
>I have to do a couple of things
>top kek I've done everything online in 3 hours
>top kek when all my tax returns are pre-filled. I just need to open a website and confirm
>top kek when basically I can do anything on-line
>what I cannot do on-line, I get it done over the phone
Now, I am well aware Italy is not like that.
And I am also aware that Australia is not as awesome as people think.
But, bureaucratically speaking:
> Australia > Italy [AUS superior to Italy]
However, over the past years I noticed Italy is moving towards a digitalized and streamlined system. And I believe this is not because of all the laws or the reforms or the shitty inventions of Brunetta.
It is a slow transition, I agree. But it is fucking happening. What it takes now is also for Italians to make it work (by using the tools they are given, for example) and also for Italians to elect politicians who will fund those changes. Because there are many who have the skills to make a dramatic overhaul of bureaucracy... but they don't have funds to hire good IT technicians, managers, and planners...
Problem is, the best things accomplished in Italy are done under the table by people who work extra hours just because they believe in what they are doing. Problem is: you cannot believe forever. You also need to feed your family at some point.
>>78550142
TL;DR =
I'm offering no solution, but at least I rejoice to see this slow change in the right direction.
In my opinion, there is nothing to *dismantle*. Things need just to be:
>used
>made easier
>funded
Change will not happen overnight, but it will slowly occur.
>>78549286
Competitive within the Union, you faggot.
>>78549479
Angela, your pic is basically a critique of you making a fool out of me because I speak the truth.
>>78534011
It's not constitutional man, you can't have a referendum over a international organization
>>78550142
Reread what have you wrote in that post and maybe you'll understand why you are an idiot.
>>78550142
>top kek I've done everything online in 3 hours
Unless you are a business owner that's not impressive, it takes me like 20 minutes to do my taxes
>>78550305
>>78550142
But it sure as shit isn't thanks to the EU
All these things are not happening because of them
It's happening because people who know how to use digital equipment and are tired of enormous bureaucracy are replacing the older generation
It was inevitable
>>78550553
Protectionism makes you competitive by default
If your currency is shit, you have no choice but to use local products and you'll attract tons of foreign attention because of your cheap exports
Right now we're gimped by an overly strong currency that doesn't fit us at all
>>78541082
kek
>>78550986
>Calling other idiots
>Making a compelling argument
Pick one.
This should explain how many problems Italians do have.
>>78551014
>everything in 3 hours
With everything I meant my working day. Not my tax return.
>>78534011
>Outaly
>>78551524
>Quitaly
>Italeave
>>78551248
You first called us whiny imbeciles then you backpedalled and admitted our bureaucracy is a complete mess who isn't near being functional.
>>78551075
>It's happening because people who know how to use digital equipment and are tired of enormous bureaucracy are replacing the older generation
>It was inevitable
I agree it is not happening because of Europe.
But in that post I was responding to anon who said Italy's problem is bureaucracy.
So I responded:
>well, I can prove you things are changing.
Now you tell me:
>not because of Europe, but because of broader cultural changes
And I'm okay with that. In fact I said:
>I will stop arguing Europe
So what's your point anyway? My post was about the fact Italy is not as nightmarish as it used to be. Full stop.
If you agree, anon agrees, and I agree... we are all cool.
>be italian
>flee to australia because selfhating
>"i hate italians and their way grrrrrr >:(("
>"let's be as much of an anti-italian as possible and shill for the eu that'll show them >:)"
>"yeahhh italy go against your selfinterests you are too shit yeahh eu is good for you yeah get cucked it's really good"
>get raped by a koala
>>78551756
Yeah things are improving, they'd improve more if we were free though
>>78551075
>If your currency is shit, you have no choice but to use local products and you'll attract tons of foreign attention because of your cheap exports
Okay, but that's China-tier competitiveness.
European Union forces you to have a Germany-tier competitiveness.
Let me explain.
>China-tier competitive = currency is crap, everything cheap as fuck; so we're gonna sell
>Germany-tier competitive = currency is kinda average; everything is expensive; BUT PEOPLE STILL BUY because of quality
So my argument here >>78548495 is basically that the main reasons Italians want to leave the EU is because they prefer *easy* China-tier strategies over *hard* (but solid and with long-term benefits) Germany-style strategies.
Basically those of you who want to leave Europe do so because they don't want to work their arse off. So they prefer to be the new Made in Vietnam rather than the new Made in EU.
>>78551730
>You first called us whiny imbeciles then you backpedalled and admitted our bureaucracy is a complete mess who isn't near being functional.
I said exactly the contrary.
I said:
>Italian bureaucracy is still hard to deal with
>BUT it is getting better
>problem is even when it gets better...
>...many Italians still refuse to believe it is getting better
>so they don't make good use of the tools they are given
>and they slow the process of betterment
I think you should take some reading comprehension classes.
>>78552562
>. For example, suppose an average Dago needs a permit to open an activity. He will go: "muh duh, all that bureaucracy, all those taxes, etc." So he gives up even before trying. The few who actually try have it super-easy... why? Because 2016 Italy is not 1946 Italy, and things have changed. Better streamlined procedures, less bureaucracy, etc.
>>78546029
>by the end of this decade only Germany is going to remain in the EU
>>78552254
>they'd improve more if we were free though
Would they?
Are you really really sure?
If you were finally free... would you get rid of mafia, imbecile and corrupt politicians, etc.? Is that what you are saying?
I don't fucking believe a word of that.
Some of the best things that are protecting Italian consumers come from Europe.
European Union is the only thing that is forcing Italy to respect human rights in many respect.
If it wasn't for Europe, Italian politicians would be free to exploit all the fucking loopholes of your huge legal system and cuck you to the bone. Of course they already do so.
But as soon as you get out of Europe, they will finish selling away the country.
>>78552264
you understand jack shit about economics and politics
ITALEAVE
t. bocconi
>>78552653
TL;DR:
>because your are just lazy motherfuckers
>>78553253
>t. bocconi
>implying it's a good university
Ma quanto ritardati siete per sperare nel crollo dell'Unione? In teoria 4chan non è così popolare in Italia quindi dovrebbe esserci un certo livello di istruzione su questa board (anche visto l'obbligo di conoscere bene la lingua inglese).
Poi vabbe se in realtà state solo trollando i coglioni anglofoni, mi aggiungo a voi
Renzi is dying, we are going to leave sooner than you think :^)
>>78534011
Italeave when?
>>78552653
Basically, I am referring to things like these:
>>78544660
You Italians always complain. The idea you cannot fix your own shit is really part of your culture. And nobody wants to move an inch to make things better.
>>78553460
arguably the best in Italy along with Cattolica (law only), Politecnico di Milano, Politecnico di Torino and Normale
and easily in the top 5 of European University
the second best for economics in Italy is Trento, and even then it's a distant second.
but yeah, I know you'll go
>MUH PRIVATE UNIVERSITY PRIVILEGED FUCK
because you seem to be a socialist cuck
get raped by a koala
>>78552264
But our products are good
However we also need to protect our own market from shitty imports, hence the weak currency
We're more similar to Japan than China
Imagine if with a weak currency we could offer a Ferrari at a BMW price range, nobody would buy BMW and obviously buy the clearly superior Italian product
That's what we should do
The EU doesn't like it because they couldn't handle competition like that
Who in their right mind would go to if Rome costed half of that?
Who would buy wine from France if Italian wine was not only better but much cheaper?
Who would buy tomatoes or wheat from other countries if Italian food is higher quality and less expensive
>>78553390
>YOU'RE BAD GOYIM.JPG
>>78553803
>You Italians always complain.
I wonder why, it's a real mistery.
>>78553849
>arguably the best in Italy along with Cattolica (law only), Politecnico di Milano, Politecnico di Torino and Normale
>and easily in the top 5 of European University
What is Pavia.
>because you seem to be a socialist cuck
Please keep projecting your stereotypes on me.
Please keep labelling me in ways that make it easier for you to dismiss my opinions.
I'll tell all my /k/ friends you called me socialist so we will all have a chuckle and toss a shrimp on the barbie while drinking VB.
Why should I be a socialist?
I have basically derailed this thread by saying:
>Italy is doing better than Italians think
>Europe forces Italy to follow rules
>Italians don't like that. They prefer China-tier economic practices
>Anyway, the problem of Italians is they are fucking lazy
>They have the tools to both make Italy and Europe work...
>...but since they are fucking lazy, they would rather vote out
>Italians are being cucked by Americans and Europe is their only way to be relevant in the world without standing between hammer and anvil.
So if asking you to stand up and work rather than whine and complain makes a socialist out of me... well... maybe I'm a socialist.
>>78553854
some of what you say is right, but you don't understand brand value. high prices also lead to a higher perceived value of the product, necessary to keep the brand value (and the very profitable pricing of luxury goods), think the snake eating itself but in a good way.
Ferrari at BMW price level? are you serious?
Maserati going that path destroyed the perception of the brand and the brand value to the point that there are rumours of building a new LaFerrari based MC12 and selling it at a slight loss (Veyron style) to get people excited about the brand again.
t. worked for them
>>78554455
So the problem is that italians don't want to work and do not want to fix their problems? If that's your argument then you must really be retarded or just shitposting like usual.
>>78554455
PAVIA
AHAHAH
are you serious?
man, I don't care if you are a /k/ommando or whatnot, what you say fits very well with the socialist clusterfuck that is the EU, surrendering sovereignty to get soda in return, when with sovereignty you could have fine wine. that's why I call you a socialist, not because I'm projecting. if one of us is projecting stereotypes, that's you, calling Italians lazy just because.
>>78553854
>But our products are good
*Were good
They were good. But the world is learning fast, you know? Now many spots in Eastern Europe are offering you top-tier tourist services that most Italian venues are unable to provide because the mindset is: tourists will come here anyway.
But tourism is just an example. We can talk of FIAT, Bialetti, and other companies if you want.
>However we also need to protect our own market from shitty imports, hence the weak currency
You can do the same as Germany does.
Germans have also a cultural mindset... they will always prefer German stuff over foreign stuff.
Same goes for Americans.
Even here in Australia... do you reckon how many shopkeepers told me: "and it's Australian made." As if it was a badge of honour?
What is the last time an Italian shopkeeper insisted I purchase a product made in Italy? Possibly clothers shop. And not even all of them.
Anyway, if Italian pride is not a thing... if you are afraid of foreign dumping, you can basically keep prices low by helping your own companies rather than cuck them. And this has nothing to do with the EU, but with your own politicians.
>We're more similar to Japan than China
I agree. 100% agree, but last time I said it on /pol/ I got 3 Italian flags attacking me.
My point is that if you really get independent from Europe you might end up like -- maybe not China -- but Vietnam. So you will stop being the Japan of Europe anyway. Better unite then; the alternative is being like Viet Nam.
(cont.)
>>78536989
Oi u cheeki cunt dont tred on muh non EU buvva or i'll bottle u like perrioni
>>78554291
>I wonder why, it's a real mistery.
Jokes aside, I'd love to know why.
Everywhere in the world people complain. Mind me. It's the national sport of many countries.
But Italians... Geez.
>>78555311
don't you have some emus to exact revenge on tho
>>78554845
Legit question.
Is Pavia a bad university?
>>78554476
Perceived brand value will not damage anything because Italy as a whole would lower prices and the entire world loves Italian products for being super high-quality stuff
Obviously Ferrari at BMW prices was an exaggeration but you get the picture
It's insane to believe that there's only one way to have a successful economy
Apple makes overpriced status symbols, Samsung makes cheaper high-end phones, and Huawei makes cheap phones, and they all make money
(cont. from >>78555189 )
>Imagine if with a weak currency we could offer a Ferrari at a BMW price range, nobody would buy BMW and obviously buy the clearly superior Italian product
I'm not sure about the Ferrari example. I'm not really into cars, so I don't know if it is a good example.
Don't you already offer Alfa Romeo at a BMW price range?
>That's what we should do
Then do it. Don't say it.
>The EU doesn't like it because they couldn't handle competition like that
That's bullshit. They simply don't want competition deriving from deception and trickery.
>Who in their right mind would go to if Rome costed half of that?
?
>Who would buy wine from France if Italian wine was not only better but much cheaper?
Yeah man, but you also need to balance the things. If Italian wine is cheaper it means you sell a lot of it and get a lot of Lire for it... and this makes you a rich man in Italy... but you can kiss goodbye to your airfare to Mombasa and other benefits of a decent currency. Currency needs to be decent, not shit-tier.
>Who would buy tomatoes or wheat from other countries if Italian food is higher quality and less expensiv
Man, I'm sorry to dispel the myth... but Italy IS the major exporter of tomatoes in the world.
In Australia you find Italian tomatoes in a can. For sale. Cheaper than Australian products.
I'm not joking. Here is fucking full of Italian products. 16,000 km for a can of tomatoes... now tell me if the world isn't cucked.
All of them cheap as fuck.
The problem of Europe is that Europe realizes this shit is cheap as fuck because you keep negroes in semi-Slavery in Puglia and Calabria.
I don't have anything to add other than good luck Italibros and good luck all of my other European brothers. Make no mistake that most of the UK still want a strong relationship with all of you. We can do this together. Fuck the globalists.
we're better in the eu and probably would benefit more from a stronger integration as well.
anything else is just full retard.
like sovereignty is a value by itself, if you're for sure getting governed by self absorbed fuckers.
>>78555604
meh, I'm no expert in Medicine faculties but Pavia seems to be alright in that field. I'd argue San Raffaele and some others are fairly better (more difficult to get in though, based on what I hear).
Engineering is fucking garbage. If that's your field, it's either Politecnico di Milano or Politecnico di Torino, you won't regret it.
>>78554681
>So the problem is that italians don't want to work and do not want to fix their problems? If that's your argument then you must really be retarded or just shitposting like usual.
Well, that's what I get from you shilling to leave the EU
LEAVE EU = WE DON'T WANT TO WORK TO FIX PROBLEMS. WE JUST WANT TO GO AWAY
This is as laziest as it gets.
>>78556439
>LEAVE EU= WE WANT TO BE IN CHARGE OF FIXING OUR PROBLEMS.
ftfy
>>78555827
The dude in australia explained it - competition is catching up.
What does Italy offer that is high quality and has a solid brand?
>Tourism
Croatia is totally destroying you. Ski resorts in France are on top in quality. Slovenia offers lower prices for nearly the same quality. Rome is holding, but, let's be honest, do you honestly expect Raggi to be good for that? Even if she is, it's not enough.
>Cars
Fiat is holding, but imagine what's gonna happen pro-brexit - Germany takes ALL the English market and you can barely compete. Not to mention you've lost your total dominance of the supercar market - german lambos are dominating the middle east, which is the big one.
>Foodstuffs
This is the era of synethtic foods and biological science. Traditional food products will be at a loss.
And let's face it, most of your economy is in the Alps. The Alps are slowly becoming a state of their own. How do you think they'll react if you exit the EU?
>cosplay as an aussie shitposter
>posts read like a cucknadian rant
Sad!
You're complaining about italians missing their national pride and then you act all mighty trying to distance yourself from your nationality as badly as you can.
In complaining about italians complaining about Italy you're just confirming you're as bad as everyone of us Dagos.
>>78556924
as far as I know Italians are fixing slowly there problems. addressing them.
Not like nothing happens.
I think italy will balkanize soon, they were never united in the first place. It doesn't work.
>>78555604
It's not favelas-tier like the UniBA/PoliBA.
>t. UniBa pro
>>78554845
>>78555604
>>78556406
Here's the general Censis report.
ALL RANKINGS: http://www.censismaster.it/ViewDocument.aspx?lang=it&docid=48dc85768b6d4e07b652f99070d17b17
RESEARCH RANKINGS: http://www.censismaster.it/document/it/Classifica_Censis_ricerca_scientifica_universita_2015_2016/Classifiche
### PAVIA ###
## Research ##
Top3
>History, Philosophy, Education, and Psychology
Top4
>Civil engineering
>Economics and Business
>Politics and Social Science
Top5
>Maths and IT
Top6
>Law
>Antiquity, Philology, Literature
Top7
>Industrial engineering
Top9
>Chemistry
Top15
>Medicine
Bretty Gud.
>>78556738
>tourism
that is fucking due to the too strong currency. exactly the problem us leaving would fix.
>cars
you actually fell for the Lambo meme? those cars hold no value. even their big ones, like the recent Centenario, won't find buyers because the value proposition is ridiculous. trust me, I worked in the sector. Lambo is a bubble waiting to burst (also, why the fuck would you want to release two different Huracans in a 2 year span). McLaren will be more of a force to be reckoned with once they adjust their pricing, release schedule and family feeling. trust me, I worked in the sector.
>foodstuffs
yeah, if the EU signs that disgusting deal with the US we're fucked. I wonder whose fault is that?
>>78557489
the rankings are bonkers. medicine is by far their best faculty.
>>78555189
They still are good
People all over the world love Italian stuff because they say it's high quality, and it is
Weak currency is the only way to properly protect national products because Italians aren't rich enough to be nationalistic about purchases, so they'll just buy the cheapest stuff regardless, further damaging the economy
I have no idea why anyone would be angry at being called the Japan of Europe, and we won't end up like Vietnam, before the EU we were pretty strong economically even with a weak currency and exports loved by everyone and hailed as the best of the best, sounds like Japan to me
>>78556168
Alfa Romeo is actually lower than BMW but BMW has much more aggressive marketing tactics
I wasn't sure what Euro city to put there and ended up not putting anything, just put Paris or something
Protectionism isn't about going outside to spend your money, it's about taking money from the outside and pumping into your own country so, it's good that tons of Lire stay here
And of course we have africans working in the fields, what the fuck are they supposed to do? At least they have a job
>>78556738
The Balkans are destroying us because our currency is too strong
And we have Sicily, Tuscany, Naples, Pompeii, Milan, Turin we can get tourism everywhere
We don't only have cars, we have Lancia and Alfa Romeo as well, and again, with weaker currency our products are much more competitive
And we're much better off without the EU regarding foodstuff, especially with the US trying to force their shit down our throat
>>78557957
Damn,
We don't only have Fiat and supercars
>>78534011
>Who's going to pull that off?
I guess that Salvini is the best we got... Fuck, I wish we had an even remotely serious right-wing party, but people here don't really give a shit about politics anymore.
>>78557761
>medicine is by far their best faculty.
That's whay everybody said about Pavia... in 2005. So maybe your views are a bit old fashioned.
Have a look
## PAVIA CENSIS RANKING ##
# BACHELOR COURSES #
Categories:
>Science (general)
TOP 1
>Chemistry-pharmacy
TOP 5
>Social Sciences-Politics
>Psychology
TOP 6
>Geology-Biology
>Engineering
>Economics-Stistics
TOP 7
>Sports
TOP 11
>Literature-Humanities
TOP 12
>Medicine-Healthcare
Anyway I'm not shilling for Pavia only.
Best Universities in Italy are, to my experience:
>Udine
>Camerino
>Trento
>Pavia
>Politecnico
And of course:
>Sant'Anna
>Normale
Then there are others with specialties. But Bocconi is fucking overrated. That's my argument.
>>78558383
we need a charismatic goofball with funny hair of our own
who /poliba/ here?
>>78558313
we pretty much do if Sergio doesn't pull off the fucking Alfa Romeo revival.
we also got trucks, but they mostly serve the internal market as the goddamned Agnelli family halted the train development in Italy to make transportation of goods dependant on their fucking trucks.
>>78558383
>people here don't really give a shit about politics anymore
some of us do. but most of our new generation is so cucked we'll need a really charismatic leader with sound, tough policies to make them productive members of society.
>>78558383
We have an unlikely alliance of 5 star movement, Lega, Forza Italia, and SEL all pushing for bailing out of the EU
And PD and NCD are the only ones who want to remain
>>78558667
What you don't like his hair?
>>78558667
No hair best hair
>>78535632
What website is that ameribro
>>78559095
Not only is he not best hair, he's not even best Duce
>>78558613
>Bocconi is fucking overrated. That's my argument.
that is not an argument. how come all the important managers studied there? and don't tell me it's networking, because that is the over-rated part of the university; in the US it would be considered sub-par. LUISS is the private university which is overrated as fuck.
>>78559325
Well this duce is best girl, there's no denying that.
>>78534011
Can Italians can rule a country?
Do Italians want be independent?
>>78559464
>>78559325
>>78559008
Don't forget Berlusconi had a "girlfriend" he called Anchovy
>25/06/2016
>not eating Italian grissinis in Australia
>not realizing this is not enough to keep an economy afloat
>tfw Italians say no EU will boost sales
Yes... but then welcome to the 3rd world again.
Cannot wait for Italy to leave so I'll fet $ 2.00 grissini instead of $ 4.00... and Italians will stop coming here because:
>Italian currency with no Euro is cheap again. Cannot travel
>>78556332
>we're better in the eu and probably would benefit more from a stronger integration as well.
>anything else is just full retard.
>like sovereignty is a value by itself, if you're for sure getting governed by self absorbed fuckers.
100% this.
>>78559811
That hair looks curled enough for me
meme magic at work
>>78556635
>>LEAVE EU= WE WANT TO BE IN CHARGE OF FIXING OUR PROBLEMS.
You've already tried for 150 years.
America got its shit together in less than 100 years.
Time is over, Mario. The Princess is in another Castle.
>>78557957
>>78557591
>muh currency
Slovenia is in Euros, so is France, how come one is destroying you by being cheaper and almost as good and the other by being better?
> those cars hold no value
You may know the sector, but do you understand long-term business strategies? Lambo is made by Audi, which has a buttfuckload of capital. It is just muscling you off the market. As soon as it succeeds, it'll start turning a profit.
>>foodstuffs
yeah, if the EU signs that disgusting deal with the US we're fucked. I wonder whose fault is that?
TTIP is a drop in the ocean that is the biotech foodstuffs sector. The Dutch are actually the leaders in the world in it and with or without TTIP that is going to take over, because they can produce cheaper, better food than you with less effort and they don't need your natural environment or methods.
>The Balkans are destroying us because our currency is too strong
That is simply not true. Slovenia is in the euro and they are raping you in terms of tourism. Croatia is basically in the euro (currency pegged to the euro) and they are raping you in terms of tourism. That mantra is a lie you're being told by people who want to abuse it and you're eating it up.
No non-EU country is forcing it on you.
>Sicily
Leaving the EU does not guarantee fixing the refugee problem with you taking them to your shores. Coincidentally, fixing the problem yourselves does not mandate leaving the EU.
>Tuscany
>Naples
>Pompeii
>Turin
France is better. They are becoming even better. Not for me, you don't have to convince me, I visit Italy every year, but you're lagging behind, hard.
>And we're much better off without the EU regarding foodstuff, especially with the US trying to force their shit down our throat
Look above.
>>78560295
Beautiful
>>78560653
I'm fairly sure this was before GuP, Nips probably took inspiration from this
>Berlusconi chose best girl before the Manga was even out
>>78544339
>Dagos
Not an italian name, twat.
>>78556738
>Croatia is totally destroying you. Ski resorts in France are on top in quality. Slovenia offers lower prices for nearly the same quality. Rome is holding, but, let's be honest, do you honestly expect Raggi to be good for that? Even if she is, it's not enough.
>Fiat is holding, but imagine what's gonna happen pro-brexit - Germany takes ALL the English market and you can barely compete. Not to mention you've lost your total dominance of the supercar market - german lambos are dominating the middle east, which is the big one.
All of this green text is the reason I wrote this: >>78548495
It's not the 90s any more, Fratellis. And I'm not making a "current year" argument. I am just saying: things have changed. Your primacy is being slightly taken away as we speak.
Except maybe:
>Raggi bad major
She's not gonna be bad. But you cannot think she will solve ALL problems in one term. That's nothing short of impossible.
>This is the era of synethtic foods and biological science. Traditional food products will be at a loss.
I also disagree with Belgianbro... but for a kek-tier reason: the only people keeping up the fight for traditional foods are the same libtards everybody hates her on /pol/. If it wasn't for hipsters who love bio shit, Italy would have been BTFO earlier.
Side issue is that hipsters still prefer local produce. So whatever. I was just making a point about how libtards may be helping Italy stay afloat with its food industry.
>And let's face it, most of your economy is in the Alps. The Alps are slowly becoming a state of their own. How do you think they'll react if you exit the EU?
Belgianbor means the North of Italy. The Alpine Range: all the area engulfing Switzerland:
>Rhone-Cote Azur
>Marseille
>Nice
>Piedmont
>Lombardy
>Switzerland
>Baden Wuttemberg
>Veneto
>Trentino
>South Tyrol
>Austria
>Fruili
>Slovenia
>Bavaria
That's one of the hearts of Europe.
>>78556924
>In complaining about italians complaining about Italy you're just confirming you're as bad as everyone of us Dagos.
This would be the ultimate shitposting.
Were it true.
>>78557272
>as far as I know Italians are fixing slowly there problems. addressing them.
And that's what I meant to say.
But of course if they leave EU, corruption will reset. Everything will reset.
So dude here >>78556924 is wrong.
I was complaining about Italians who shitpost to leave Europe.
And argued things are slowly getting better.
So I agree with the Kraut here.
>>78553583
sono d'accordo sul fatto che sperare nel crollo istantaneo dell'unione sia suicida, ma spero davvero tu non creda alle fiabe di renzie
>>78557591
>that is fucking due to the too strong currency. exactly the problem us leaving would fix.
No man. Read this again: >>78556738
Other countries are catching up.
So either you start working your arse off and accept that you have to have quality services.
Or you leave Europe, you become Thailand-tier again... and keep complaining because everything went ground zero again.
What Europe is doing is forcing you to be competitive not because of shitty currency but because of produce quality.
And I understand it's frustrating. It's like someone who always got things at your shop because they were cheap, who suddenly says:
>no as cheap as it used to be
>not good either
>can you do better?
>>78540599
>North Italy
is choking full of niggers, pakistanis and other shit.
>>78562524
In major cities, yes. Otherwise I'd say not really. [spoiler] niggers and pakis tend to go where there are more opportunities to better their lives. [/spoiler]
>>78561348
Man, you don't even know how your people are called.
It's not a proper name. It refers to all Italians.
Dagos = Dagger users
Fucking kek mate. Are you new on pol?
>>78563033
That's literally not true.
Small places like Varese and Busto Arsizio(also known as "La terra di merda") are shitholes full of foreigners...they would be shitholes anyway but that's not the point.
>>78546797
Add in Austria too and I'm in
Test.
Aussie banned IP ranges?
>>78564327
Apparently not. So WTF? CIA?
Do like the UK did with Boris Johnson: the mayor of your capital will lead the campaign and will become your next PM
>>78564681
She's no Duce but she'll do
