why is communism/marxism bad?
>>78442166
I don't know, Che
>>78442166
Rule Britannia
>>78443007
congrats m8, you deserve it
>>78442166
because it doesn't work and leads to massive destructive damn near apocalyptic famines and civil wars that make the mongol conquests look tame in comparison
>>78442166
The results
>>78442166
Because you can have the same thing even better while keeping individual freedom - if you have democratic institutions and competent leadership.
>>78442166
Good in theory, bad in practice.
/thread
>>78442166
It isn't.
>>78442166
Stealing from other people stops working when the other people run out of money.
>>78442166
Because it is an ideology for ants, not men. It makes as much sense as veganism for lions. We are not hive animals, and no amount of blaming our "evil, selfish, greedy, etc." nature will change this.
>>78442166
Because the guy who half asses his job is seen as the same as the one who is busting his ass and giving his best. The modern followers of communism are lazy degenerates who have never worked hard in their life for anything
>>78443962
thanks comrade lenin
>tfw voted Leave
Deal with it
>>78443690
>Good in theory
I wish this meme would fucking die already. Anyone who thinks it's good in theory has evidently never read the theory.
>>78442166
No one institution can run everything. Society needs a plurality of private groups in order to function.
>>78443962
Oh and friendly reminder that communism, socialism and, marxism isn't about "stealing other people's money and paying everyone the same no matter what work they do.
Socialism is democratic ownership of the means of production.
Communism is a classless, stateless, moneyless society, built by socialism.
Marxism is the study of history by examining class conflict, dialectical materialism, and class relations to private property.
Today is designated Leaveposting day. You can't post about other topics
>>78445051
>Socialism is democratic ownership of the means of production
Can already happen now. Co-ops are entirely legal, and are hindered by no more regulatory burdens than traditional capitalist enterprises. And yet, capitalist businesses dominate the market. So obviously those suffering proletariat (ie. the actual working class, not delusional ivory tower socialist college students) who supposedly yearn to be free of their capitalist oppressors don't actually give a flying fuck about owning the means of production, and would rather just show up to work and get paid. And instead of starting co-ops, socialists would rather whine about the evils of capitalism. Funny, that.
>moneyless society
Can only work in a post-scarcity society. Until then, money beats barter every single time.
>Marxism
It assumes labor theory of value (which, to be fair, was all the rage those days; even Spooner supported it), so it's fatally flawed right out of the gate.
>>78442166
Its because of >le jo0o0o0o0o0z XDDD
Are you seriously trying to find an intelligent response in a board filled with libertarian cuckolds and edgy nazis?
>>78445051
"democratic ownership of production" redpill me on this mate what happens when your company fails who bails you out. who is going to pitch in to start another company if they are all going to get the same shares as everyone else. Who facilitates the transfer of ownership when new workers come in. If you don't ultimately own the company why should people care about its long term prospects rather than squeezing out all the profits
>>78442166
read this
http://www.thegenocideofthesouls.org/public/english/the-pitesti-experiment/
>>78442166
It was created by Jews to replace the European Royals with Jewish Communists. Lots of lies of class warfare etc but the End result would have looked the same as before - just with different people on the top.
>>78442166
cuz aut-rightists say it is
>>78448737
ye mayyyn its le z0oz
As you can see, the Warsaw Pact was held together only by a military dictatorship, any country that had its freedoms, religion and economy slaughtered by the USSR (Hungary, for example), couldn't even hold protests without anxiety and fear, leading to intervention by the Communist leadership.
>>78442166
>why is communism/marxism bad?
btw there is only INTERNATIONAL communism/marxism. National identity and Independence is to be completely destroyed and no elections anymore because it's impossible on a global scale.
>>78449328
>National identity and Independence is to be completely destroyed
>what is the patriotic war
>what is nationalist socialism
>who is Mao
>>78442166
It's collectivist focusing on group rights over individual rights and giving insane amounts of power to the government. It's also badly thought out and can only exist as long as other capitalist systems do, why would you choose an inferior system where you have less rights?
>>78446959
Rosa Luxemburg destroyed the co-ops argument a century ago
>>78442166
Watch this http://youtu.be/tezeW1uDXCs
And than watch "NWO: Communism by the Backdoor" from Dennis Wise. Producer of "The greatest Story never told - Adolf Hitler".
>>78442166
The impossibility of economic calculation in a socialist commonwealth.
Explanation of the ECP;
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxtYWx0aHVzc3RvcmFnZTJ8Z3g6MmY4NzRlNTAxY2UzZTEyZQ
>>78442166
It's inherently flawed. In nature there's slackers and humans are no different; trying to make an "equal" society is pointless.
>>78449027
>ye mayyyn its le z0oz
Ridicule instead of arguments is a good way to identify jews nowadays! It's current year, all your strategies are known schlomo.
>>78442166
Because it's jews and they hate white people and want to kill every white person on the planet simply for being white.
>>78449994
It also divides people into classes it's basically the religion of SJWs and you can see how they turned out.
>>78442166
It's too extreme. It did/does force capitalism into necessary reforms, though. Unions are a good thing.
>>78442166
It's failed 31 times already OP.
But wait, those weren't REAL communism am I right?
>>78442166
Because positions of power draw corruption, and it would only work on a small scale with a homogeneous society where everyone ages on everything. This would probably require conditioning since birth and not being aware of other possibilities. This has only occured in a few small tribal cultures and is always thrown to the wayside as they advance.
See the shining example of all those hippie communes started in the 60s...Oh wait, there's none left
>>78447991
The idea behind workers collectively owning the means of production isn't driven by capital, and financial accumulation as it is in the capitalist method of production. Rather the workers choose what to produce, and how they produce it.
This is why >>78446959 point on Co-ops is somewhat straying the line as to whether it is socialism or not. Yes the workers do have more say over how they conduct their labor, but ultimately they aren't making large strides to advance their class interest. From co-ops, the dialectical confrontation between classes is not, solved, but rather soothed, granted concessions.
Another point to remember that also ties into >>78446959 argument, is post-scarcity societies. At the rate of which labor is becoming automated, it isn't far out of the question that fairly soon, most jobs in almost every industry will be performed mostly by machines. This creates a massive problem in our current capitalist economy. The better part of people, do not own private property, (read as means of production), their options are to sell their labour for a wage to someone who does, or to actively resist and try not to participate in the world economy (something that is near impossible to do unless they are some sort of diehard survivalist). So, if the better part of people, who must work to earn wages, are replaced by robotics and AI, how do they earn the currency needed to by necessities? Furthermore, how do they buy luxuries and other goods and services that keep the economic gears turning? The government cannot provide for these people, they cannot collect taxes from 99% of the population, and trying to establish a welfare state in those conditions would fail horribly.
So assuming that labor does become more and more automated, almost 99% of the world population will be forced to either fight and seize these means of productions so that they can provided for everyone, or starve.
>>78449816
>>what is the patriotic war
>>what is nationalist socialism
>>who is Mao
All created by goyim and hated for it by jews, because it was not "real communism". It's Trotsky (international) vs Stalin.
Your Points are the reason why communists say that there was no "real communism" in the past, "this time it will work"...
>>78450036
>yeah man just watch those fake propaganda films i swear they are real
>>78450122
>i looooove child labour
>>78450170
>i am the same thing as a hairful ape
>>78450191
You dont bring an argument yourself.It is like trying to debunk a fairytale,it is just not true
>>78450376
not an argument
>>78450590
it wasnt communism you political apathist
removing communist scum since 1918
>>78442166
Because it groups power in the hands of the party elites and the economic model cannot respond to the needs of the market and consumer adequately.
Because it assumes that everyone is fundamentally equally, therefore everyone should be fundamentally equal.
The truth is that people are not fundamentally equal and there must always be stronger people on top to direct lesser people on the bottom (not saying our current system exactly reflects this however).
Please list all of the successful and prosperous communist nations, without including ones that are notorious human rights violators.
>>78449994
>>78450407
What's funny is that all these criticism are more fitting when examining capitalist societies.
>>78450941
[citation needed]
>>78451084
quite edgy my 500 pound m8
>>78451221
>i dont know what marxism is
>>78451269
>what is the USSR
>>78442166
communism is the hypothesis that you can give all power, resources and accountability to a small group of people and they will share it fairly
you don't have to be a fucking brain rocket to know that politicians never share power by choice
>>78442166
1 post by this ID
>>78450031
>Rosa Luxemburg destroyed the co-ops argument
>Producers’ co-operatives can survive within capitalist economy only if they manage to suppress, by means of some detour, the capitalist controlled contradictions between the mode of production and the mode of exchange. And they can accomplish this only by removing themselves artificially from the influence of the laws of free competition. And they can succeed in doing the last only when they assure themselves beforehand of a constant circle of consumers, that is, when they assure themselves of a constant market.
Capitalists on suicide watch, amirite? Fuck freedom and competition!
>Smart? go to jail
>>78451031
>i'm i brainless broke retard
piss off faggot.
>>78451491
>this is your brain on capitalism
>>78451645
the USSR was literally a superpower you stupid chink
>>78451478
>USSR
>Successful
Should I post the supermarket video?
>>78451031
>It is like trying to debunk a fairytale
Unable to debunk a fairytale? I feel really sorry for you dude...
>>78442166
It isn't. It's fucking awesome.
>>78450590
Yeah. Totalitarianism has failed 31 times.
>>78442166
Ask our friends in Venezuela how they are doing it my """""""""""""""white"""""""""""""""" friend :^)
>>78451478
Facepalm overload
>UK leaves the EU
>EU will get fucked up
i hope russia annex the baltics, ukraine and moldovia haha
It doesn't works. Just accept it. There is no free shit.
>>78452341
t. liberashka scum
>>78451478
>>without including ones that are notorious human rights violators.
>>what is the USSR
Dude how jew are you?
> what is the NKVD?
>>78442166
Because we must rule the animals, not become them.
>>78442166
It presumes all the people are equal, we arent, social classes are the result of natural divisions, not artificial constructs.
>>78447455
>He's a literal communist.
Haha wow.
>>78442166
communism was conquered by its own retarded policy's and fascism required a world war to defeat.
>>78443690
thats like saying islam is the religion of peace
>>78451478
failed in all countries and russia could barely feed its people during the afghan war and this was in 1979 for fuck sakes. not to mention they owned fucking Ukraine(once a bread basket eastern europe like Poland was to western europe) which was liberated from the rich man and made public property just like all businesses
>>78451031
Not an argument. The ECP clearly lays out the impossibility of rational resource allocation in a socialist economy. It has never been rebutted, only ignored or strawmanned.
So, yeah, your ideology is worthless luddite garbage and it hurt and is hurting billions of people.
Time to grow up.
>>78451793
your argument is a plain
>poor XD
If capitalism is SO great then why arent i rich then?I have 2 jobs btw
>>78451880
>OMG LOOK AT THIS SUPERMARKET IN CAPITALIST CANADA!!! :'( THEY MUST BE SO POOR
>>78452141
>lets use ironic posting so he can clearly see that i am triggered
>>78452341
>NO GUYS SERIOUSLY.WHAT IS SOCIALISM?
>>78452590
>capitalist countries dont have secret police
in my country alone you can get arrested for saying something insulting to a police officer
>>78452965
its 2016 and we shouldnt have other opinions amirite?
>>78452799
What about hunter gatherer societies? They were/are mostly free of classes, in fact more and more evidence is suggesting that classes started appearing in human societies around the time agriculture came around. With individuals laying claim on more farms, they acquired more power and therefore a superior class standing over those who did not own farms.
>>78453198
>ommunism was conquered by its own retarded policy's
>what is the worldwide red scare and the countless fascist coups of America
>failed in all countries and russia could barely feed its people during the afghan war and this was in 1979 for fuck sakes. not to mention they owned fucking Ukraine(once a bread basket eastern europe like Poland was to western europe) which was liberated from the rich man and made public property just like all businesses
[citation needed]
>>78453299
>pic related
>>78453348
Capitalism raises the standard of living for everyone who participates. The people considered poor now are most certainly not as destitute as those considered poor decades ago.
No one gives a fuck how much you work, you greaseball shit. Greece is infamous for its inefficiency so all your "work" is worthless trash.
>>78453348
>>capitalist countries dont have secret police
>in my country alone you can get arrested for saying something insulting to a police officer
In what western capitalist country will you be thrown into prison for having a different political opinion, or directly killed the nkvd way?
Throwing rocks, bottles,... doesn't fall into the "different opinion" category btw...
>>78453865
>Cults of personality
>Genocide and slavery apologia
>Any criticism is discarded as reactionary
>Brain drain
>No True Scotsman arguments when a failed state is mentioned
>>78453865
>pic related
Is this supposed to be a bad thing?
>>78442166
>>78453348
your baseline poorness is richer than the baseline poorness in motherfucking USSR for fuck sake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWTGsUyv8IE
what a happy and rich place to live in you fucking welfare queen
>>78453573
>They were/are mostly free of classes,
Wrong! They had strict hierarchies based on physical,... achievement == natural order.
Communism = artificial order to force "equality"
>>78454692
>thinking that leftists are liberals
everytime
>>78453865
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LtQhIQ2AE
what a wonderful place
>>78443690
>>78455009
They failed to distance themselves from the movement. They are the same now.
>>78454097
>Capitalism raises the standard of living for everyone who participates.
Living standards imporved under slavery,living standards improved under stalinism.Could i use your ''living standards argument'' too?
I couldnt give less of a fuck what the world thinks about my shitty ass country.I individually work my ass off everyday you retarded NEET.Why arent I atleast middle class like big poppa Adam Smith promised me?
>>78454616
>>78454595
[pic related]
you guys are the funniest cuckold ever
>>78454694
Like i said,i have two jobs you stupid redneck.There is no welfare granted in this shithole since the crisis started.Thats why i have to bust my ass to provide food even for my grandma
>>78455159
>lets judge a 12 mil kilometre country by how a supermarket looks like
>>78456015
>I individually work my ass off everyday you retarded NEET.Why arent I atleast middle class like big poppa Adam Smith promised me?
Because, you stupid communist faggot, working long and/or hard does not equate to wealth. In a society where men trade freely and voluntarily, your labor is only as valuable as someone else thinks it is. If you build a table out of your own shit, don't expect to be a millionaire just because you had to push really hard.
When will you retards get it through your heads that the labor theory of value is wrong?
but communism saved russia though
>>78456956
>lets dictate our lives by how the market wants us to be
you call THAT innovation?
Because strong Adam will offer to dig a ditch in exchange for goods and services from Bob, and when you punish Adam for thise you become a caricature. Trade is a fundamental human right.
Thank you guys for all the info.
I was in my class, when my teacher saw my book "Mein Kampf". So, he started harrasing me, about why I read that.
He also said that he's a lover of the communist manifesto.
I went full power, but he just said that hitler put bombs in some coffee or hall in munich square to generate fear and took the power using terrorism, that hitler was racist and that jews were persecuted and exterminated.
>but teacher, winners write the history.
"no" It was all he said.
So, ill watch all of that info later guys. Ty so much.
>>78457680
>now i can be retarded with the help of every single one of you guys :)
>>78457314
>killed more people than the Nazis could ever hope to
>enslaved hundreds of millions for decades
>but communism saved russia though
Funny definition of "saved".
>>78457375
Market doesn't dictate shit, the market is just people exchanging things they desire voluntarily.
You can live your life however you want. Just don't expect others to serve you if you have nothing to offer them.
>>78458139
>>killed more people than the Nazis could ever hope to
this meme needs to die
>>78458259
>gulags didn't exist
>people didn't "disappear"
>mass starvation due to centrally planned shitshows didn't happen
Tovarisch please.
>>78458139
is this why one of the most important inventions in the world (the computer and the internet werent invented from the private sector?
>>78457992
oh im so trigggggggggerwscfwecvkwjvep you troll me dude.
>>78458139
>>78458436
>killing anti-revolutionaries isnt justifiable unless we do it
>implying famines didnt happen under the Tzar
>implying famines were created due to planned economies
>>78442166
''the people'' are nowhere near self-aware enough to rule themselves, and of course
>what is human nature
>>78458973
human nature changes whenever we change our environment
>>78442166
m8 if you don't get by now then I can't help you.
I will try to help you with this: A lawyer is a best president that a motherfucking bus driver.
i will say it again....since the UK left the EU, i hope the baltics get annexed again by russia
Because it promises 100% equality, which is illogical and impossible. Treating an Abo shitter cleaner the exact same as an Icelandic doctor is ridiculous
>>78459287
but the people will still never change from being mere cattle
>>78459469
> A lawyer is a best president that a motherfucking bus driver.
What did he mean by this
>>78459571
This, done.
>>78458506
No, it's why other most important inventions in the world, like the steam engine, or the internal combustion engine, or the printing press, or modern chemistry, or the scientific method, or antibiotics, or thousands of other inventions and discoveries of that nature, came from the private sector.
Nobody is saying the government can't accomplish anything. I'm saying the private sector will accomplish it with less violence. Also, it's funny that you mention the internet and the computer. I don't recall; they were invented in Cuba, or the Soviet Union, or China, or some other communist nation, right?
>>78459571
the UK will never be yours...you will be more weaker everyday :0)
>>78459647
That Marx and Engels were evil.
Because equality is a lie. Equality is injustice to the more intelligent and ambitious.
>>78459571
no it doesnt
>>78459726
it was produced in the public sector,you know,by the ebil gommie machine?
>>78459946
not an argument
>>78460164
equality is a lie
>>78460572
what kind of equality are we talking about
>>78460164
>the public sector
The public sector, yes. The public sector in your beloved communist paradise, no.
Firstly, the public sector is not the same as communism. Secondly, the public sector is not able to achieve things without a gun to someone's head, nor is it able to do things the private sector cannot ultimately do as well, for less money and effort.
>>78460793
there aren't multiple types of equality my dude
>>78442166
It's not.
(Lies about the Soviet Union)
https://gowans.wordpress.com/2013/12/23/seven-myths-about-the-ussr/
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/furr_katyn_preprint_0813.pdf (Katyn)
https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-nmIGAXUrq0OJ87zK/Khrushchev%20Lied_djvu.txt (Secret speech)
(Stalin wanted Democracy)
http://clogic.eserver.org/2005/furr.html
http://clogic.eserver.org/2005/furr2.html
Statistically it was a huge success in both the USSR and China while it lasted (Life expectancy, quality of life, manufactured goods).
Cuba is one of the best countries in South and Latin-America, despite being a relatively poor island in terms of natural resources and a target of blockades and US sabotage.
North-Korea was ahead of South-Korea for a long time, before it turned feudalistic. So no, it's not at all Communism.
Western history books are filled with literally "CIA"-propaganda and even Nazi-propaganda (furthered by Western "historians"). Western historians today use books by people like Robert Conquest (Historian paid and promoted by the CIA and the likes) as sources, while the material by Robert Conquest do not have proper sources.
The best example of how the history of Communism in the Soviet union are manipulated, and how brilliantly it is done, is all the estimates on deaths. 10 million, 15 million, 20 million, 30 million, 40-50 million, 50-60 million etc - all these various "historians" with different estimates make people think that 10 million is the conservative number, while 60 million is the exaggerated number. People will think that it's somewhere in the middle - while in fact, even a million people dying because of the Soviet government and policies (and not "indirect" causes like sabotage, draught and war).
And the US did another thing - they made being anti-communistic a nationalist thing. So American nationalists think that they are doing their duty. Just look in this thread.
(Leninism/Stalinism/Maoism is nationalist)
>>78460807
I know the public sector isnt something socialist,i was just making fun of right wingers who do believe that.
>nor is it able to do things the private sector cannot ultimately do as well, for less money and effort.
Then why isnt is doing it?Where is the innovation?Where are the new inventions?If the market was so innovative then we should see something groundbreaking everything 10-5 years.
>>78451339
Maybe because Marxism is actually really good at highlighting the flaws in Capitalism, but absolutely dogshit at creating a sustainable and concrete framework in which society can function and prosper?
>>78461256
NOOOO why did you posted all that....i was enjoying those posters who spread CIA meme lies
>>78460164
You want me to make it simple for you, retard? You don't want a butcher operating your heart, you want a surgeon. In the same way "the workers" are not going to be the best way to manage a company or a country.
Simple as that. That's why all commie countries always end up like corrupt shitholes.
Something curious: You guys know about "La Cosa Nostra" (the italian mob gang)? They started as fucking labor unions.
So yeah, fuck off.
>>78460986
ok so,gommiez dont believe that we should be biologically equal.
They believe that we should have equal opportunities in order to succeed.
>>78461256
>while it lasted
Off to the gulags you go :^)
>>78461696
why give opportunity to those who nearly guarantee failure
>>78461674
[citation needed] nigger supply a source as to why it cant happen.Making retarded analogies dont prove SHIT
>>78461373
>Where is the innovation?Where are the new inventions?
The private sector is producing better and faster electronics components all the time. It is producing amazing drugs and medical breakthroughs. It is producing more efficient industrial processes and equipment. It produced the fucking website we are using right now, as well as the hardware we're using to access it. And the clothes you're wearing, and the chair you're sitting in, and the car you drive. What the fuck more do you want?
And where are those innovations from the public sector, exactly?
>>78461256
>Cuba is one of the best countries in South and Latin-America
Yeah, fuck off.
People like you are despicable. You really think people were escaping from Soviet Union for fun? Or Cuba?
Fuck off.
>>78442166
>>78461256
And of course the classic.
>MUH NO REAL COMMUNISM
>>78462116
NOT TRUE SOCIALISM
>>78461256
>Cuba
lol.
Cuba is a dysgenic nightmare. Look at how quickly its gone to majority nigger.
Everywhere you go, when evolutionary pressure is removed from the people, it slides back into promoting maladaptive genetic shit instead.
A free market is painful yes, but that breeds hard people.
>>78462000
I just gave you two. I don't care if you're too retarded to understand.
>>78462025
>>78462167
t. capriles
>>78462116
Pretty much.
>>78462502
Fuck off. Go and practice your wall building skills.
there are real life examples
cuba for instance won't allow a business to use the latest technology unless all the same business's are able to acquire it because one business can't have an advantage.
>>78462892
While that happens: The Castro and friends live as kings.
>>78462167
And of course the classic citizen of a corrupt regime calling itself socialist, thinking that he lives in a Socialist country.
>>78462025
Cuba has less corruption than most of Latin and South-America. Better quality of life too. Obviously some doctors and other highly educated people leave if they hear that they will get good paying jobs on the other side. Also there will always be unhappy people in any country for various of reasons (which media is very good at giving showtime).
And;
People that came with banana boats did not escape ;-)
>>78442166
Because it treats everyone equally
>>78461373
Are you reading this on a machine that didn't exist 40 years ago?
Or a phone that didn't exist 10 years ago?
>>78462359
Still better than most of South America AND the world.
>>78444122
>>78444122
Underrated
>B-B-BUT IT WUSNT REAL SOCIALISM FRIEND!
>WE NEED MOAR MONEIS FOR MOAR FREE LUNCHES!
>DIDN DU NUFIN IT WUZ THE USA FUGGING US D:::
>>78463751
you can correlate HDI in south America pretty much perfectly by white percentage population...
You have Argentina, Chile, and Puerto Rico at the top, and then it goes downhill from there.
>>78442166
Well, it's only bad if you don't happen to make it to the top of the dictatorship of the proletariat. Or, in other words, "It's good to be the king."
For everybody else... well, a hundred million murdered or starved to death is just collateral damage, right?
Finally, the theory of all labor being equal is just stupid--and the idea that some people can be trusted to hold absolute power for the "benefit" of everybody else is even more foolish.
This is why I spend most of my time on /leftypol/
Keep drinking the capitalism kool-aid.
Zombies
>>78463309
>Cuba has less corruption than most of Latin and South-America. Better quality of life too.
>Better
>Quality
>Of
>Life
>>78446959
Wow, a leaf being based. Fuck year
>>78465185
capriles shills want neocon whores to rule their country :0)
>>78442166
It's the same thing with the (Crony) Capitalism today. Both Capitalism and Communism work on paper but it doesn't account for human beings. Human are inherently selfish and can not work in a communist world. Communism has already fallen and capitalism is only a matter of time.
>>78465309
I aint no capriles shill you taco, and we had perez jimenez but he was born too early
>>78464443
>capitalism kool-aid
It's only because of capitalism that leftypol even exists, you clown.
>>78464234
I am not afraid of saying that black people have lower IQ, and that IQ plays a large role in development of a country.
I have read that more black people have the "Warrior gene" too.
But still, Cuba is statistically a decent country, if not a good country. If Cuba is more black than the rest, that would be an argument pro Cuban socialism.
But also, defending Cuban socialism, or Stalin or Mao or whatever is a bit like Capitalists/Republicans today would have to defend Napoleon. It's not like they were or is perfect - it was a step in the right direction.
>>78464703
Look up statistics my friend ;)
>>78465714
>>78465934
>>78464241
>well, a hundred million murdered or starved to death is just collateral damage, right?
Hello CIA
>>78465548
Humans are biologically family/tribal orientated. Most human tribes, historically, have lived with Communist social structures.
>>78465859
>Look up statistics my friend ;)
Explain this then, bjorn
>>78466975
>>78466379
Communism is not a familial or even tribal ideology, it is a global one. And in that end, it has failed and will continue to fail every time.
>>78466975
#notallcubans
>>78442166
Its like a fortuneteller explaining that in the future you will receive some money, so you decide to grasp the future yourself, you rob a bank, the police cap your ass.
In your dying moments, you find a nickel on the floor.
The end
>>78443962
Thanks comrade Lenin!
>>78468018
without him russia could've been like afghanistan(a peasant shithole occupied by the west)
t. mexican intellectual
>>78468211
Memes aside, it ain't my nigga.
From Victory to Victory lead us on!
>>78467223
They all deep inside crave the miami jetset lifestyle, thats why they desert so much, not all of em have the balls to go rafting tho.
>>78468466
"""cultural marxists"" in the UK supported the brexit campaign
>>78443374
This
>>78467411
With globalism, you mean some centers controls the rest of the world? That's the nature of Capitalism, and its search for new markets.
Both early Soviet and Mao's China intended to have a much more decentralized power and more autonomy for the various regions and nations within (but pressure and threats from the outside forced them to centralize).
>>78468589
Yes, they think that they will get to live the Miami jetset lifestyle, but instead end up working for the Cuban Mafia or low-tier shitty job.
>>78444122
this
>>78468784
Of course any Marxist/Communist would be pro Brexit. Anyone that supports the EU can not be said to belong to the left. "Leftists" today with their SJWism is lost.
>>78466379
I want to believe that but everyday i observe the world news the less i think that humans are capable of out right charity.
I still believe that a mixture of both philosophies is the ultimate solution.
>>78444122
>A FUC... BASED LEAF?
>>78442166
its a really good idea in theory but it just doesn't work as history has shown
>>78442166
it isn't.
it's implementation has been subverted by capitalists and misunderstood by idiot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEVOIO4TbZs
>>78442166
The 100 million murdered people wasn't enough?
>>78443374
and yet famines and civil wars exist in capitalist societies... hmm...
>>78443616
>individual freedoms in a competent democracy
>capitalism
you can choose only one
it's against human nature
>>78469977
Nowhere close to pol pot or lolmao starvation levels nigga, are you even trying?
>>78444122
>we're not hive animals
who the fuck said communism is authoritarian? collectives are made up of individuals, you jackass. this is not the borg from star trek. get a fucking grip, leaf.
>>78449816
>hurr durr dictatorship and dictatorship of the proletariat are the same thing
have you tried "nuance" lately?
>>78450036
>complete eradication of private ownership
yeah man we want to steal your halitosis tooth brush and bedbug mattresses because that's so hygienic.
by the way you're retarded
>>78450122
of course! mises! the guy that said fascism saved europe. what were we thinking.
>>78469977
>Slicing my arms open leads to loss of blood and possible death
>But those things can also happen during accidents
>Better slice my arms open lol
Literally your line of reasoning
>>78469977
>>78461473
>i have never read Marx
>if there's no money how will we buy stuff?
>>78470869
t. pinochet
>>78470719
You're laughing, but in Venezuela you go to jail for hoarding toilet paper.
>>78469477
We live in a Capitalist society, where you compete with your neighbors, with your work mates. Humans are very adaptable. A different society, and people would act different too.
The hunger for social status will always be there though - but what if Social status = how much you helped your society? Like in most tribes in history. Not about how much money you have.
>>78468784
I'm a dirty commie sympathizer and I supported Brexit.
>>78461674
>workers are not going to be the best way
oh let me guess, you've never had a job in your life. everyone knows that they and their coworkers could get the job done without their bosses.
>>78469002
>That's the nature of Capitalism, and its search for new markets.
LF capitalism requires no centralization, and indeed it is less centralized than current mixed economies.
> early Soviet and Mao's China intended to have a much more decentralized power and more autonomy for the various regions and nations within
Citation fucking needed.
>>78469750
What is really good about it in theory?
>>78470381
>who the fuck said communism is authoritarian
How do you ensure compliance with communistic ideals in a communist society? Authoritarianism is not limited to dictatorships.
>collectives are made up of individuals
Communism requires that those individuals subordinate their individual desires for the sake of the collective. Do not confuse collectives with societies.
>>78471294
>everyone knows that they and their coworkers could get the job done without their bosses.
Many think this. And when they start their own businesses, they fail miserably, because they are fucking useless at managing their own affairs.
>>78471342
>Soviet Union
>Union of Soviets
>>78471294
>Be chavez
>Take over corn flour factory fuck the capitalist pig owners amirite?
>Give it to the ebin workers so they make a shitload corn flour
>Fuckers cant do shit right, commie price controls mean 0 profit, corn flour production comes to a complete halt
>People starve all over the country
Communist logic, ladies and gentlemen
>>78459571
>tfw icelandic doctor believes in equality
>>78461956
you mean the citizenry regularly give capitalists the opportunity to raise up a successful society with security and they guarantee failure by starting wars based on lies and stealing from us via bailouts since capitalists control the state?
great reasoning there, bubba.
>>78471231
And how do you measure how much you helped society? What is the worth of your labor?
Look into labor theory of value, understand why it's stupid, realize that the only sensible measurement of value is what others are willing to pay for it, and conclude that capitalism is the way. Which is the reason it has made its countries immensely prosperous while commie countries consistently suck dick.
because it only works if everyone agree with each other in everything and the country leaders are 100% incorruptible, neither of which are even slightly true
>>78462167
>corporatism isn't real capitalism
sure thing bro.
>>78451134
money isn't real. it is "created" from nothing.
>>78469956
not enough for capitalists, since right social hierarchies and wars for resources outweigh any fake gorillion number you pull out of you ass
>>78472747
>because it only works if everyone agree with each other in everything and the country leaders are 100% incorruptible, neither of which are even slightly true
>B-but it wasnt real commienismo!
>Everything has 2be perfect!
>Just like an utopia!
>>78470329
>>78470869
>>78471012
see pic here:
>>78469893
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gNXfrMR_Lw
>>78472463
>And how do you measure how much you helped society
People around you will recognize your contribution. Sure, some people will try to manipulate.
>Labor theory of value
Why is it stupid? :)
Most of the World live in a global Capitalist world. 1 billion people suffer from malnutrition, 2+ billion people live in extreme poverty.
>>78471151
that's hoarding in general that's illegal, and it's a good law. plenty of hoarders are mentally ill. hoarding destroys the surrounding property and can lead to illness. it's self harm if not also harm to others.
>>78471834
>DPRK
>it's a democratic republic, guys, why else would they call it that?
Great sauce, m80.
>>78473125
Fiat money, kind of. It's real in the sense that it has value (if you disagree, please send me all of yours). But yes, it is created and destroyed at the push of a button. That's more of a problem with fiat money specifically, not money in general.
>>78472463
>human life has not meaning
>labor means nothing so slavery is okay
>rights don't exist
>capitalist countries are prosperous
have you ever considered that capitalist countries are "prosperous" because they invade and steal resources from weaker nations? ever heard of puppet dictators? proxy militias? you should know, Chile.
https://vimeo.com/16724719
>>78442166
>me poor and dumb
>me blame rich
>me steal shit
>all poor
>all equal
>>78474164
Literally the nigger of all ideologies
>>78473925
no form of money is real. it simply abbreviates the fallacies of commodity fetishism. the value of all objects change at the whims of subjective human desires which is unstable and leaves out the context of human labor. inflation exacerbates commodity fetishism and your splitting hairs.
>>78463309
>Cuba has less corruption than most of Latin and South-America. Better quality of life too.
Oh ok, you're literally retarded. No surprises, really.
>People that came with banana boats did not escape ;-)
Because you say so, I suppose.
>>78464443
>I'm saying this from USA from my tablet while drinking some good Starbucks btw
>>78463751
Go live there then, fuck head.
>>78463309
Also you, stupid fuck, know that Fidel and Chavez were like REALLY good buddies right? No, you don't this because you're a kid that likes being "AGAINST MUH SYSTEM XD"
Castro supports our governments to dead so if our government is bad, Cuba is the same. But again, you're just a retarded fag.
>>78471294
Sure...
>>78442166
>Breaks the individual
>fails if even the smallest group decides to be individualistic
>Must eliminate dissenters in order to maintain control
Ultimately fails it's people and the entire goal in which it had in the first place.
That is to make everyone economically equal, when of course, there need be someone or some people in power that will always want/take more.
>>78473007
Did I said that? No I didn't. Fuck off.
>>78474164
>>78474334
>me poor
>me fight others on market
>me stay poor
>me join military
>me retainer now
>me become foreign invader
>me rich from resources stolen from others
>capitalism good. i buy inflatable barbecue from china now
>>78471151
>>78473699
It aint illegal ya dumb fucks, unless you want to buy 80000 rolls for resale (ebin price controls).
>>78474379
t. sociology student
>>78471901
>bourgeoisie refuse to allow affordable college or teach administration because it would destroy their monopoly
>proletariat attempt to do it themselves and be self sufficient
>capitalists blame proletariat for not having the knowledge that they would have otherwise had if the bourgeoisie had simply followed through with their capitalist principles and allowed competition
>>78442166
It removes all individual incentive, thus removing any point to work. Without work, society collapses. It can only work if machines replace perhaps 90% of human labor.
>>78474920
>sociology
oh i'm sorry is hegelian dialectic too elitist for the elitist? or is not YOUR -kind- of elitism? are you triggered by logic?
>>78475019
http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100
"Initially, the Mincome program was conceived as a labour market experiment. The government wanted to know what would happen if everybody in town received a guaranteed income, and specifically, they wanted to know whether people would still work.
It turns out they did."
>>78473547
>Why is it stupid? :)
Because value is determined at the time of exchange. I can say my shit is worth a trillion dollars, but if I agree to sell it to someone for a dollar, its true value was one dollar, not a trillion.
Value of something, as a concept, only exists relative to some other thing. It does not exist in a vacuum, so nothing has inherent or fixed value.
>>78474379
> the value of all objects change at the whims of subjective human desires
Correct.
>leaves out the context of human labor
It most certainly doesn't. If someone wants me to dig them a hole, I'm going to charge them according to my expenses, including materials and labor. I do not consider my labor worthless, so you better believe that I'm going to include that in my price calculation.
Money allows the price mechanism to occur efficiently. Money is essentially barter with an intermediary good, one which has favorable and convenient attributes to facilitate exchange.
>>78474920
what's that fuckface?
economics is a social science?
>>78474612
nah goy, you get it wrong i tell you my father's story
>me poor
>me steal shit 4cash
>me go to school
>me study hard
>me learn law
>me trick other dumb and poor people
>me good business
>pleb make me more money than they make for themselves
>me family rich
>me hire assassin to kill local labor union leader
>me have many house
>me have many slave
>me and my son rich and shit
now cry me a river
>>78475015
>>>78471901 (You)
>>bourgeoisie refuse to allow affordable college or teach administration because it would destroy their monopoly
College education is free over here you dumb burger
>>proletariat attempt to do it themselves and be self sufficient
And miserably fail to do so
>>capitalists blame proletariat for not having the knowledge that they would have otherwise had if the bourgeoisie had simply followed through with their capitalist principles and allowed competition
Did you even read my post? Chavez took over all the corn flour factories except 1, holy shit 100 factories vs 1 yet socialism lost DIDN DU NUFIN BLAME THE BURGEOIS
>>78446959
>It assumes labor theory of value
What's wrong with the idea that, given supply and demand are reasonably matched, that the only reason people will pay over a certain amount of money for a given good is because it take a certain necessary amount of labor to produce more of it?
Clearly being able to magik something out of the air would reduce the cost of an object to nothing.
>>78475592
>Economics
>Talking about fetichisms
Sure commie freud
Because it makes people into a statistic and quota rather than giving merit to one's abilities and will.
>>78475557
> I do not consider my labor worthless, so you better believe that I'm going to include that in my price calculation.
your calculation doesn't mean shit if it can't be negotiated by a government or a union.
>allows price mechanism yadda yadda
it's abbreviates the inherent insecurity of a market system. the insecurity is still there, you've just found a way to ignore it and pass the responsibility on to a government that you hate that is also controlled by capitalists that will sell out the small business as quick as a bleed out from a cut to the femoral artery
>>78475015
>bourgeoisie refuse to allow affordable college or teach administration because it would destroy their monopoly
COLLEGE HERE IS FREE SINCE FUCKING DECADES YOU STUPID FUCK
AGAIN: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE YOU'RE AN EDGY KID
SO. SHUT. UP.
>>78475763
economics is a social science. got it.
>>78475218
>>78476092
there is a bottom line that has to be met in almost all endeavors, generally speaking. you do not have an argument. collectives are made up of individuals.
>>78447455
>tfw marx was a jew
>>78470329
Why don't people listen to this guy?
He lives in a socialist paradise
Also you can ask every Mexican, Mexican government is mostly left wing
>>78442166
it's not inherently bad if you know the history about why communism/Marxism was even an idea.
but of course people are corrupt. they've ruined democracy as well.
>>78476395
lol so how did they fail if they knew what they were doing?
wait let me guess, there was an embargo that made the economy difficult to contend with and the u.s. has done you the dirty like it did cuba?
or is it simply some rich people are buying shit up to thwart socialism yet again? no one can explain this shit but here you are saying it's because of socialism. what the fuck happened hombre?
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2013/sep/26/venezuela-food-shortages-rich-country-cia
It's disgusting knowing that commies use /pol/.
Because most communists didn't read Capital or anything else that Marx wrote. Lenin made shit up on his own and everyone who followed was crazier and less informed than him.
>>78477308
That article is from 2013
Wew lad
>>78442166
enforcing it requires authoritarian measures
>>78470151
edgy
>>78477349
>using a forum for free disgusts me
whoa kiwi. are you shit posting right now?
>>78477593
can you answer the question? why are there food shortages? be specific.
>>78477629
capitalism requires authoritarian measures once it has control of the state, as it is wont to do.
>>78475689
The only reason people will pay a certain amount of money for a given good is because they demand it more. Whether labor costs are higher is irrelevant to the consumer's decision to buy. All he cares about is the relative utility of the thing he's going to buy as compared to the money (and subsequently all the other goods he could purchase with it) he is exchanging for it. If I'm only willing to spend up to $5 for a cup of coffee, I'm not going to pay $6 even if all the coffee pickers unionized and blew the cost of coffee production through the roof.
Anyway, what you described is not LTV.
>>78476312
>abbreviates the inherent insecurity of a market system
What insecurity? What the fuck are you on about?
>>78477286
It's a bad idea m8. Even if the initial intentions were good (doubtful), doesn't make the idea less shit.
>>78477937
commodity fetishism:
1) imagine that 1 jacket = 20 yards of wool
well we've already got a propositional fallacy because that value could change arbitrarily AND it takes out the context of human labor
2) imagine now, that 1 jacket equals one bale of hay, and that 2 bales of hay equal one iron bar.
now imagine that this preliminary expression exists for ALL products on the planet. if ONE thing of value changes, then ALL expressions of comparison between commodities change. this means that the value of any good is completely unstable.
3) now add currency to the situation. yes it may be more convenient to use it, but all it has done is abbreviate the propositional fallacy, lack of context of human labor, and unstable value expressions. this doesn't solve the problem
4) inflation
5) currency exchange rate trading or speculative trading
as you can see, there are at least 5 layers of fallacious reasoning going on here that provide ample opportunity for graft.
>>78469977
Yes, and it's because Government tries to step on the rights of citizens. (i.e. The Civil War)
>>78477900
>capitalism requires authoritarian measures once it has control of the state, as it is wont to do.
explain
>>78477900
Honestly it seems like humans trend towards authoritarianism no matter what. How do you even stop this.
>>78459471
You must be from Oaxaca, amigo chairo
>>78477308
>let me guess
One more time: YOU DON'T KNOW S H I T
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BUT (YET) YOU RUN TO DEFEND YOUR STUPID UTOPIAN IDEA.
The stupid controls proper of any Marxist government fucked our economy and gave the fuckers in power a really good opportunity to steal A LOT.
There was no fucking embargo, fuck head, the government fucked our economy.
>>78477349
Yeah, it really is.
>>78478015
ah i see. so the price of oil has gone down, the economy of Venezuela took a hit, the price of corn went up to match inflation but normal people don't have the money to pay for the adjusted price and you're blaming the proletariat when rich people hoard the food.
have i got that right so far? what am i missing?
>>78478245
>propositional fallacy because that value could change arbitrarily
That's not a fucking propositional fallacy you mongoloid. If I say it's 20 degrees outside, that's not a fallacious statement if it actually is 20 degrees. It doesn't matter that the temperature could change in an hour, it's still 20 goddamn degrees at the time of the statement. That is what happens with prices. A given price is that value AT THAT TIME. The price is not invalidated just because somebody else has a different ordinal value list.
>context of human labor
What the fuck does this mean?
Everything you said pivots on your fist statement, which I've shown is fallacious and retarded. Kill yourself.
>>78462025
Venezuela! This is so cute, how are you doing Venezuela? Are you in vacations, in Mexico, or Spain? Poor you... How so? Are you angry because those filthy darkies got into have some vote? I get you, totally... Enjoy your vacations and remender Venezuela is juait!! Viva la guarimba! uga uga uga :3
>>78478420
He wouldn't cause he's full of shit.
