To all atheists.
I understand your views on religion, expecially organized religion. To an extent, I even share them.
But consider this: wether or not the fairytales are true, they inspired and produced excellence, and degeneracy. Visions of greatness, and powerhungry dreams. Heroism and bloodshed.
I like your pursuit of truth through reason, your faith in the simple power of the intellect.
But ultimately, it is dull and grey. It lacks a sense of greatness and the push to inspire and elevate the hearts of the populace to either a good, or evil ideal.
An existence without this very basic push, could only turn mankind into nihilistic machines.
With this mindset, you will never be able to build something like pic related. Even imagine something like pic related.
Please, aspire to greatness. I know many of you hold great hopes in the future and technology. But never forget the astounding power of that "push".
If you want to go "out there",
Build space cathedrals.
>>78323477
bump for interest
>>78323477
Agreed.
We are not ready to live in a world without religion.
I'm an atheist, but I'm still ready to DEUS VULT with you guys during the final crusade.
>gotta make my ancestors proud
>>78326831
Thank you Swebro.
Pic related is what I'm talking about. (I know many on /pol/ share the passion for W40k)
What atheism has to offer, if it denies the achievements of Christianity, and refuse to mimick or learn from them, I wonder.
Maybe it's something ingrained in their "pragmatic" views. No excesses. Utilitarianism. A lack of unearthly beauty or sacred terror.
>>78327483
I'm ready for the call.
This is my humble advice. And it's not only related to petty sci-fi fantasies. It could apply to everything you atheists try to build or do.
Does it cost more effort?
>yes
Is it more expensive?
>yes
Does it make the whole process more difficult?
>absolutely
But this already disillusioned world craves for a new renaissance. And senseless acts of pure, blazing glory.
>>78327483
>>78328260
would you give or risk your life for some backwards beliefs?
accept Islam, enjoy life and beat your wife!
>>78323477
I agree with you. Julius Evola.
Strongly agree. Yes it's fairy tails but it serves a useful function.
>>78323477
I argue that it's not reason and ration that is dull, rather the mind which uses it; it's akin to the imagination religion gives.
There is beauty in reason, and ugliness. It is up to you to find it, I personally feel. I see the beauty in understanding the reality around me, so that one day I may manipulate it.
I hope one day you find the same, and can enjoy your religion and your reason, equally.
>>78329224
Islam lacks what christianity offered to the world.
Instead, it has the alluring taste of mob rule, archaic and loose morals. But you know why it can't achieve the inspirational beauty of a church, or the Pietas?
Because they stripped the human factor off their religion. There is no glorification for the image of righteous men and women, in Islam. Their mosques exist only for Allah and his prophet.
Look at this. beautiful, isn't it? But it's only geometrical, abstract. Sterile to humanity.
>>78330380
What you said is very subjective .
>>78323477
I'm an atheist and I agree with you. Would rather live in a christian society than an atheistic one.
>>78323477
g8 post
>>78330011
fairy tale has a negative connotation
instead, remind people they are parables
>a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
this is effective in countering neckbeards that ignore it, and people that translate the bible too literally
>>78330676
Relegious Christian societies suck in general
I agree on the fact that religion prevents some form of degeneracy. But believing and promoting lies is the biggest form of degeneracy in my eyes. Therefore, we have to find another way to a non degenerate world while remaining atheists.
>>78330380
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWEyY0vl4-w
>>78331211
That is a meme tho the bible is very cler that all those stroies from adam and eve to moses and his stick did happen
>>78323477
>I like your pursuit of truth through reason, your faith in the simple power of the intellect.
>But ultimately, it is dull and grey.
I disagree.
It is very beautiful and inspirational.
SPAAAAACE
>An existence without this very basic push, could only turn mankind into nihilistic machines.
Actually, religion is turning us into machines.
Science is turning us into elves.
Satan is just the consumption of God.
And vice versa.
>>78331362
All societies suck in general.
>>78331673
You suck.
>But consider this: wether or not the fairytales are true, they inspired and produced excellence, and degeneracy. Visions of greatness, and powerhungry dreams. Heroism and bloodshed.
Every significant religious movement did. Hell, the most influential ones were the ones that we hear almost nothing about. Mesopotamian polytheism can almost single handedly be credited with the invention of civilization, same with the ancient religions around the Indus Valley, the Nile, and the Yellow River.
If you don't like the reductionism and urge to discard in new atheism, you should first examine yourself, because that urge to discard religion to reach a scientific utopia is practically the same urge as the Christian urge to discard all forms of polytheism and paganism to reach the City of God
When you boil it down to its essence, Bonifatius differs surprisingly little from Christopher Hitchens
>>78331673
Living in vermont is much better than living in Mississippi t b h
>>78331947
Not an arguement
>>78332034
Is there a point somewhere in there?
>>78330329
It's a good point.
But
>I see the beauty in understanding the reality around me, so that one day I may manipulate it.
it's something that only affects yourself.
Replacing religion with this mindset isn't enough to truly succeed as an intelligent species. It's trading a common, unifying vision with the constrained sight range of the individual.
>>78330628
Maybe. After all, I see this as a borderline christian westerner. But it's true that Islamic faith denies the human factor in their traditional art and architecture.
>>78331362
The west doesn't live anymore in one.
But can still keep the best from it.
>>78331562
>SPAAAAACE
And what then, humans someday will live up there (I hope). Hard lives, which need an easing with beauty and a greater purpose. Better if it's something they could feel touch or experience.
>>78331516
I'm not arguing christianity itself as a cult, but its useful byproduct.
>>78332004
Interesting point of view. But these religions also shared the same sense of "greatness".
>>78323477
>implying I don't support Christianity for this reason
I actually used to be an antitheist. I was vehemently opposed to religion and thought it destroyed societies.
I've now seen what happens when you take it out of American society. There is nothing to replace it with. This allows far leftists to rise, which gives way to open borders and communism.
I eventually realized that an atheistic society, where everyone is just magically rational and normal, is a delusion. Just because I don't need religion, doesn't mean millions of others are the same. Churches are a great sense of community as well. I passed by a Christian school and it was all white kids in a nice and clean neighborhood.
Ultimately, a Christian society, as opposed to leftist atheistic society, is the best. And that's why I no longer hate Christians (even if some are cunts). I don't care if I'm a minority as long as our country and society are great again. I want the mudslimes and communist traitors out.
>>78331539
It's not a meme.
Matthew 13:34
>Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.
It's story-telling to teach morals.
>>78323477
It's not a trait exclusive to religion, but yes, you're right. Lots of religions have given us a good amount of great culture and things to strive for. Religion is the prime vehicle for people accepting a life philosophy, because I've learned that fucking nobody aside from a small percent of the population will ponder ethics and philosophical concepts without religion.
Not everyone needs religion, but a lot of fucking people do because they will never live their potential otherwise. We'll never agree about if god exists or supernatural bullshit, but I've come to admire the way the peacefully religious try to live their lives in Virtue. That's enough for me.
>>78332492
this
>>78323477
Religion has always been the driving factor for human existence, it touches all aspects of our lives atheist or not. Therefore you have nothibg to compare this religious world to, so your claims that we would lose core expression is baseless.
>pic unrelated
>>78332443
>something that only affects yourself.
Replacing religion with this mindset isn't enough to truly succeed as an intelligent species. It's trading a common, unifying vision with the constrained sight range of the individual.
Every individual perceives religion differently, why would people finding their own unique beauty in reality hinder the species? With regards to the "unifying vision" there's nothing in Christian doctrine that regulates things like architecture in your original picture so how exactly could that have been a product of religion?
>>78332860
Agreed. Basically the same position as Stefan.
>>78327483
I'm in the same boat as you.
>>78323477
I'm an agnostic, but I am glad that Christianity existed. Without it, we would be devoid of culture. Johnanne Sebastian Bach for example, was fully devoted to honouring Christ with his music.
In the past, religion was one of the few sources of creativity and art in a society.
In the modern world, there are many outlets for creativity and many people have dreamed of many different worlds.
If anything, society has gone too far in that direction.
>>78333425
Stop Shill! You can't ruin this thread!
>>78327483
>entirely this feeling
I went from edgy autistic-level atheist to hopeful agnostic who will start going to church and profess belief, even though in private I will never believe in Christ again. It's for the betterment and continuity of the West
>>78323477
Maybe. But I can't put my faith in religion, just seems like a load of bullshit to me. I'm close to ending it anyway.
>>78333580
Eh? I was checking to see who got the get.
>dont you see how great religion is? *spends millions on fancy building while own people starve in the streets*
>>78332492
you took the words out of my mind and put it into a post. Being an unbeliever but recognising the absolute necessity for Western nations to be majority Christian. I'm mulling over going thru the motions of Christianity once again, including services, and simply being content that my unbelief is secondary to the progression of Western civilisation.
>>78333756
Sorry, there have been a lot of shills lately linking unrelated posts/links to random threads to get attention
>>78333983
Glad to see others feel the same way.
>>78333999
Nah. Just checking.
ALSO GODDAMN DOUBLE TRIPLES.
>>78332492
>>78332873
I've come to hypothesize that it's something ingrained into human beings as a whole. I don't know if it's genetically carved by millenia of "believing" or scripted into the societies we built until now.
And I also feel we're losing it. This is why I made this OP.
Maybe atheists can go past that by denying their humanity as a whole and go full cyborg. Who knows. Maybe that'll do the trick.
>>78333345
It was the ideals and the push of religions to give new life, concepts and resources to architecture. Also, a precise, mathematical and artistic "vision".
>>78333682
I'm not shilling for the church, any church. I want to discuss their achievements and wat is salvageable to drive the society out of nihilistic stagnation.
>>78332443
>And what then
We create new stories to teach our children the true way anon.
While at the same time giving the hard evidence.
Put it this way I have a pantheistic point of view of the universe and beyond.
Humans are, in my mind, going to have to learn to be mediator between "god" and "satan"
We discover the universe, while at the same time prepare to stop our consumptive ways to an extent. We may indeed need to learn about things around us for our own existence.
I want all things to exist as much as possible.
The way we teach children this is to share stories.
I like this, it's the exploration of memes.
And I personally find a need in reflecting on the past memes too.
>>78332843
>It's story-telling to teach morals.
Anon..
Story telling to teach morals are memes.
We do the same thing today.
We interpret things through art and philosophy.
It's for the experience and the conservation of things.
>>78323477
Yeah, cucktianity is great and all (gotta love and worship god's chosen people, amirite?), but non-ironic fantasy shitposting belongs in >>>/x/
Go worship Joseph's wife's son somewhere else.
>>78333971
That's not true. The church provided free healthcare, free soup for the poor etc. It was needed to create grand buildings in name of a grand god, but the church definitely cared for its people.
They also wanted to heal their souls (you can say mentality), by making them think they'll be great after death, to not fear it, etc... and therefore enjoy life properly.
It's simple but really good. To me, what's important are the moral values that the religion gives and the fact that it preserves your culture through the ages (except for the last couple of popes). I think it is a poor man's philosophy and liberal arts education. When you don't have the time or the will or smartness to digest that western legacy by yourself (that's most of the people), a suitable western religion does the job efficiently enough and ensures some form of societal homogeneity.
>>78323477
>it is dull and grey
Nihilism isn't living in a world of greyscale mate
The sooner you realize that the better.
Religion takes away any and all credit to man and his ingenuity, it is literally anti-human and the opposite of loving our species
Grow a pair
>>78334403
>Humans are, in my mind, going to have to learn to be mediator between "god" and "satan"
I'd like to hear more about this. Do you simply mean a balance in the arbitrary concepts of good/evil duality?
Also:
>>78334403
>>78334628
>memes
Yes, it comes to that.
Take the KEK meme.
>>78334916
>I didn't unterstand a thing about all the thread so far
have a (you)
>>78335029
How does nihilism go past the individualistic drive?
>>78323477
>intellect lacks a sense of greatness
I have no need to motivate the people to any kind of good or evil. Calling intellect a simple power is ludicrous - we have only come this far because of our intellect.
Atheism is not nihilism and it is certainly not equivalent to a lack of purpose. Perhaps if you believe purpose can only come from the divine, but that's entirely on you.
>>78335909
>purpose can only come from the divine
No. But the concept is helpful.
And you'll agree with me that not everyone is fit to be an "intellectual". Or even a smart man.
And these people are still useful parts of a society that can't be simply left behind in a hypothetical atheistic world. They will become miserable. And thus unproductive.
>>78334310
To your first point: Once again you have no base for saying losing religion means losing humanity, it's scientifically proven that religion is euphoric that's why we're drawn to it, but at what cost?
To your second point: religion gave them the artistic vision? A claim that has no proof. Also, does that mean that every artist does what they do because of god? i.e. No free will?
>>78336748
>And these people are still useful parts of a society that can't be simply left behind in a hypothetical atheistic world. They will become miserable. And thus unproductive.
No, I don't think so. It's not necessary to reference the divine if you want to communicate a moral or an ethic to somebody.
The human mind is already set up to process morals and ethics as important things to live up to. It's not true that you need to reference god.
You're conflating atheism with absence of ideology.
get your feelings tf out of here
>>78337368
>Also, does that mean that every artist does what they do because of god? i.e. No free will?
They were given concepts by whoever commisioned them the work. Precise symbolism (in form of numbers and imagery, everything crafted with a purpose: strike at the heart of the commoner who saw it) And the idea of "you're doing it for God" was a great incentive to the artists, who eventually pushed past their limits and gave us universally recognized masterpieces.
>but at what cost?
And what gains?
>>78338711
>No, I don't think so. It's not necessary to reference the divine if you want to communicate a moral or an ethic to somebody.
It's not working well until now.
But it's just the beginning of an era with less religion, (or more, if you count the steady growth of muslims in the world) so time will tell.
>>78323477
There's other things to believe in. I'm atheist but I believe in many things, everything but dull and grey. To me having a religion would just be an unnecessary baggage. I already have enough to think about.
>>78323477
>Religion is fake but the goyim need to believe in it anyway
>>78339714
That's not exactly what I was arguing for, but it's fine I guess, connazionale.
I'm acknowlede that my view is far from perfect.
>>78340020
>believe in it
exploit and imitate its qualities and imagery.
>>78335465
>Do you simply mean a balance in the arbitrary concepts of good/evil duality?
Sort of.
But also working to become an "observer" ourselves while distinctly letting things run on it's own course to an extent.
More of a nurturer of 2 trees, but when either blocks the light and rain from the other - pruning it carefully.
But then a rationalization that this position in itself is potentially dangerous, though for reasons yet unknown.
It in itself is another tree too as we understand how to do this.
It's a way of both breaking out of meme restrictions carefully, while observing the consequences and either pruning them right back or trimming them.
Take "transgender rights"
There is potentially something there, but the method we use to "obtain it" is a hindrance to society and the person themselves.
Homosexuality is probably wrong altogether (for it's danger to people) and is not necessarily real (for people have sexual feelings for anything) but the brotherhood mentality is distinctly very important and something that may be retouched upon.
I think we will revert memes first.
Another thing, both trees seem, in one way to consume.
One consumes man.
One consumes god.
So we need to find the balance.
It's a bit like sex the relationship with god and man. Ying and yang.
>>78340417
So basically like LARPing?
>>78340516
Interesting and inspiring explanation.
Thank you ausbro.
>>78340740
Religion itself is considered LARPing by many. Though, it doesn't hinder the power of its "memes".
Doesn't nietzche say about the same about religion? I got 'thus spoke zarathustra' as a gift and some parts of it are really good. It tells you to make your own path, and strive to be an ubermensch.
It's certainly good for atheists who have gone into nihilism to read a bit on his philosophy
>>78323477
Normies need religion. We don't need more ''free thinkers'' than we already have.
>>78339575
>But it's just the beginning of an era with less religion, (or more, if you count the steady growth of muslims in the world) so time will tell.
The problem is that the ethics being taught to people today, by the boomers, is that you just have to be nice to people. That not being an asshole is the most important thing.
These ethics are dysfunctional and lead to the society we see today. The growth of atheism is a result of the bad ethics being taught in the name of christianity. People see that what they're being told doesn't work in reality; thus they rebel against the culture of their parents.
You've got the problem backwards.
>>78334310
>I don't know if it's genetically carved by millenia of "believing" or scripted into the societies we built until now.
Religion goes back tens of thousands of years. So yeah. It's basically ingrained by now.
>>78342232
Mh. Good point.
But I'm not entirely convinced that it's simply the fault of the previous generation. It's also relies on the modern culture our generation has been fed, and has constructed on its own.
On that matter, I think that the generalized fall of arts and morals (for various reasons and ideologies, during different periods of time) could be due to an overreaction to these "wrong ethics".
A great swing of the pendulum?
>>78341394
Mate don't underestimate boongs,
I'm beginning to understand why they saw the world the way they did. I just did the same but with the universe.
Take what you observe micro-cosmically, apply it macro-cosmically.
Although they were pretty bad at it smhtbhfam.
>>78341788
>Normies need religion. We don't need more ''free thinkers'' than we already have.
hehe
kek agrees.
It might not be fun if they actually understood things right now.
They need ubermensch brains first.
>>78332492
This
>>78327483
>>78323477
Here's the problem
Religion is a lifestyle and a philosophy
People are eager to do away with religion, but not all of the sudden start picking up philosophy books.
They lose their moral system and become impulsive animals
>>78323477
>But ultimately, it is dull and grey
>But ultimately, it is dull and grey
>But ultimately, it is dull and grey
>But ultimately, it is dull and grey
Nigga atheism is why shit gets done in the modern age. Modern science and exploration isn't through the grace of god, but through human curiosity and ingenuity.
We have BECOME Gods.
>>78323477
>With this mindset, you will never be able to build something like pic related.
So? Looks like shit, is probably expensive to build and difficult to maintain.
Your entire argument revolves around 'muh feels'.
>>78345898
>Looks like shit
>>78344400
The meme religion blesses you.
I don't know shit about abo beliefs, care to elaborate?
>>78345348
This is a good point
>>78345370
See
>>78336748
I should have added "for the commoners" in the OP.
I agree that many people are beyond this need.
>>78345898
manipulating feels is what keeps this society working.
Also:
>shit
no u
>>78323477
It's no coincidence that such a religious empire as Rome became Rome, and that all this degeneracy, miscegenation, Cultural Marxism, etc. is in a time of humanism, atheism, and general godlessness.
Vid related
https://youtu.be/kDKGvg6HeyY
>>78346591
Based Yuri.
I wish there was more material about his lectures online.
>>78323477
Fuck this shit, I never asked for being an atheist.
I'd be way happier if I'd be able to believe in something, but I can't, my brain is too logical to do it. And I've tried many times, but I simply can't feel a thing while praying or going to church.
>>78344088
>On that matter, I think that the generalized fall of arts and morals (for various reasons and ideologies, during different periods of time) could be due to an overreaction to these "wrong ethics".
>A great swing of the pendulum?
Yea, exactly. I think the relationship to religion is tangential.
I think we lost our way with the free love stuff, and society is trying to rebuild a moral foundation.
>>78323477
in the time of post-modern cynicism there is no place for religion.
>>78323477
>religion,
>expecially organized religion
I think you are mixing faith with religion mate
>>78323477
Powerful words, bro. Thank you.
>>78347245
If you don't want to, don't do it. I'm not arguing for the individual. I want to discuss about the usefulness.
>>78347531
>rebuild a moral foundation.
By giving transgender rights and pandering to pseudosocialists
It's not going well, my friend.
>>78347603
That's part of the problem, imho.
>>78348129
Faith unchecked is like libertarianism. Religion is like the organized State.
Both usually coexist to an extent. When it comes to beliefs and dogmas, there are no clear borders.
>>78332492
>I've now seen what happens when you take it out of American society. There is nothing to replace it with. This allows far leftists to rise, which gives way to open borders and communism.
This is true but:
>I eventually realized that an atheistic society, where everyone is just magically rational and normal, is a delusion.
Actually, I think science will PROVE that religious memes are correct in how they are naturally selected to either: build society, or nowadays with luciferians - destroy society.
I can see new religions emerging in the next decade that epitomises the scientific interpretation of memes while beginning to reinvent Western Esotericism.
I think religions will emerge, or old ones will unite.
Abrahamic ones in particular. There are things right in all three sects - christianity, judaism and islam - and things wrong that are not in some.
Jihad in particular. It's not quite right yet, but there is something almost Machiavellian about it that simply admits the reality of the world we live in.
Christ was right about the Jews, but the Jews were right about Christ in some ways.
There's that battle between doing good and falling into vice.
We must do good so society does not fall to bits.
But we also must disobey when we must to create good (though frankly, there are issues with that too - because then it's a slippery slope of disobedience)
Authoritarianism is a short term solution for libertarian ways. And vice versa.
Because we fluctuate in chaos - the market shows this with it's highs and lows. There's momentum of doing good and disobeying that we need to really look at.
This could infact help us to harness the monetary system from being the ponzi scheme it is today. At the same time, there is a need to do this in circumstances - such as to speed up economies.
The god of chaos strikes again.
Fucking hell, this meme is a huge fucking deal.
>>78323477
>But ultimately, it is dull and grey. It lacks a sense of greatness and the push to inspire and elevate the hearts of the populace to either a good, or evil ideal.
We have other drives than gods, most of them end with -ism. Nationalism, imperialism, communism, liberalism, fascism, mysticism, romantism...
God was the dominant meme of Europe for more than millenium, but that does not mean we are not capable of pursuing greatness without it.
>>78349158
>>78346445
Basically how aboriginals perceived the land.
Giant snake gods carving the rivers like how they carve trails in the sand.
I think they always knew it was water, but this was the their reductionist method of understanding how it worked - how fluid dynamics worked.
It seemed stupid, but now I see it's importance when you don't know enough hard evidence.
Plus they never had paper here or proper ways of writing things down - the wood is hard and the environment so harsh they had no time to properly construct scientific methods.
Plus you can barely grow native trees, let alone farm crops, here.
I'm now properly understanding why they never got far.
>though frankly, they still do sweet fuck all around here
>let alone begin to see the grandeur and opportunity of trying to go into space or travelling seas.
Still doesn't explain niggers though. I don't get why they never went anywhere. Those soils are fertile and life easy.
>>78350186
When you're on a roll, you're on a roll senpai.
>>78349116
>By giving transgender rights and pandering to pseudosocialists
>It's not going well, my friend.
You're only looking at one part of it. There's a schism that developed. Half went down marxism, the other half are going back to their nationalistic roots. That's where the alt right is coming from.
The marxist half has more traction because its rhetoric is more in line with the hippie movement that came before it... But we're already seeing the end of their days on the horizon. They're crazy and everyone can see it.
>>78349158
Syncretism is actually useful as a renewal tool, or annexion tool for beliefs. (i.e. pagan festivities adopted in Christianity)
>reinvent Western Esotericism
I think I know where you're trying to go there...
>>78350087
>pursuing greatness
That's what I meant. That's the purpose. Religion is a useful tool for that, expecially because it tackles the moral sphere before working on society.
>>78350318
Oddly fascinating.
>Still doesn't explain niggers though. I don't get why they never went anywhere. Those soils are fertile and life easy.
The land was fertile, gave fruits naturally and the preys were abundant. They didn't need to go much beyond that.
>>78351444
>They're crazy and everyone can see it
memes are called "viral" for a reason. If their memes and concepts become stronger it doesn't matter how crazy they sound. They will infect more people.
>>78349116
But I want to, whay shall I do?
Bringingeth light unto me, padre.
>>78352755
Believe in KEK
No, seriously. Simply study religious philosophy and moral dissertations.
Hell, you could even go full Jew.
Well, good night fellow anons.
I have to get some sleep for another working day.
Thanks to you all for contributing.
