What would a libertarian society be like? Since libertarian is clearly the most morally correct and rational political philosophy?
>>78225175
One lacking a collective delusion in which people think it's permissible to steal other people's property for their own ends.
>>78225175
Yeah it's really easy to be libertarian, everything is always someone else's problem/decision
>>78225352
>everything is always someone else's problem/decision
You want other people controlling your life, leaf?
>>78225175
It allows foie gras. It's not moral.
>What would a libertarian society be like?
It depends HOW libertarian. Would there be income taxes, or taxes of any kind?
Before you accuse me of conflating libertarianism with anarcho-capitalism consider that if you follow the NAP to its logical conclusion you end up with an ancap society.
>>78225566
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHPI1emZFVg
It would at least be cheaper w/o drug wars and drug related violence
>>78225175
It would likely be harder but more fulfilling.
Hard workers and entrepreneurs would do well. Poorfags would be worse off and hopefully die of starvation.
Essentially survival of the fittest vs what we have now which is parasites getting fat while the host dies.
>>78225175
trying saying all that when your getting raped
>>78225475
No, the only problem I have with libertarians is their (seemingly) wishy washy stance on law and shit like that. I remember watching an interview with Austin Peterson and he literally would not say that murder should be illegal, he just kept saying "Well it's a state thing who's the federal government to say something Is illegal"
Which I totally get on most issues but when it's something so cut and dry as murder a lot of libertarians just outright refuse to take a solid stance on things.
>>78225175
Right libertarianism was invented by rich people to cuck poor people into advocating for their interests.
You are fucking idiots.
>>78225928
Legality has absolutely nothing to do with morality.
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHPI1emZFVg
There are far sided libertarians just like any other political group, all humans have natural rights including life, taking a life is not acceptable
>>78225175
i dont think this is a good idea guys i mean im really worried about this i wish more people took this serious because im seriously terrified about this prospect right now
>>78226033
Looks like an interesting video, I'll definitely watch it at some point anon. Again I'm not exactly well versed on the subject so if you have any other info arguing for libertarianism then post it and I'll give it a look
Libertarianism sounds great until you look deeper than the dude weed stuff.
Governments need to exist to do government stuff namely police, fire, and infrastructure stuff.
Libertarianism is a meme
FUCK YOU, I GOT MINE!
>>78226461
If you want to know what "law" actually is in the Western world, this is the most prominent vein of what people think constitutes the essence of law - legal positivism.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/legal-positivism/
Reading that - which is just a brute presentation of the position - *should*, I would hope, help you displace value from human law to some kind of independent ethics.
they would look like this
Depends on how severe the libertarianism is. Could be complete anarchy, or a greater society as a whole.
Libertarianism can only thrive in an intelligent society, which we do not have.
>>78227297
Because government bureaucrats are obviously more intelligent than the general populace, and *totally* work in other people's interests and not their own.
Yeah.
Brilliant.
>>78227459
>Because government bureaucrats are obviously more intelligent than the general populace
Except they are.
>>78227509
The delusion is so real.
https://youtu.be/FHPI1emZFVg?t=14m21s
Timed right where you ought to hear it.
>>78227074
Came here to say this
>>78225175
Tattooed girls are ALWAYS SLUTS
>>78227587
And you call me delusional?
Do you really think Tyrone and Jamal adhere to the same moral code as you or I?
No shit no one should feel forced to do shit, but again, our society, collectively, is not intelligent enough for that. You're living in la-la land if you think everyone will be on board with Libertarian ideals.
>>78225175
>Megan, Unemployed
FTFY
>>78227912
If Tyrone and Jamal suicide-by-cop that's their own prerogative.
But back to bureaucrats and their "intelligence" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV7dDSgbaQ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T2i9-0PL1o
A libertarian society is one in which the government has a very limited role, and two basic functions.
1. To preserve civil liberties.
2. To stage mass public executions of communists.
I'm an Anarcho-fascist.
Remember, it only violates the nonaggression principal if it's force against a another libertarian. Killing a communist doesn't violate the NAP because it is a form of self defense.
>>78225175
a focus on economic investment and growth
a focus on rational ethics over mind-numbing religious ethics
thus prosperity in both the material and spiritual realms
>>78228242
>Remember, it only violates the nonaggression principal if it's force against a another libertarian. Killing a communist doesn't violate the NAP because it is a form of self defense
Because thoughts are violence. I think you'd fit in more comfortably with SJWs.
>>78225175
>>78226579
>libertarianism is anarchism
LET IT DIE LET IT DIE
>>78228340
Thoughts are not violence, avocation of violence is a threat. Being a communist isn't violence, advocating communism, is.
By advocating the destruction of private property they advocate the use of physical force and are thus signing their death warrant.
>>78225175
I have a hard time believing that libertarian society would ever work because, for starters, it would require most of us to be reason-loving, open-minded and logically moral people that don't get all up in each other's shit.
Sorry to be pessimistic, but that isn't going to happen any time soon.
>>78225175
>What would a libertarian society be like?
Somalia
>>78228564
>I have a hard time believing that libertarian society would ever work because, for starters, it would require most of us to be reason-loving, open-minded and logically moral people that don't get all up in each other's shit.
Sounds like we need Pinochet-minarchism.
>>78228502
Communism isn't necessarily violent. Read the "dirty filthy hippies" part of pic related.
Edgy 13 year old anarchists arent the same as normal libertarians. The government is a necessary evil but still shouldnt be abolished
>>78228877
Necessary for what, exactly?
>>78225175
The person with the most force would take over.
Libertarian society can't exist for long because it's self defeating.
>>78227214
Anarchy is not libertarian.
Libertarians want individual rights but not to infringe the rights of others.
A judicial system and police force are necessary to a libertarian state to ensure individual rights are protected.
>>78228847
>Communism isn't necessarily violent. Read the "dirty filthy hippies" part of pic related.
Dirty filthy hippies have to get that property to share from somewhere, and we all know they are not going to work for it, because if they wanted to do that they are on the wrong end of the political spectrum.
>>78228835
>This is bait.
The fact you think I'm joking saddens me.
>>78228847
>statism isn't necessarily violence
>>78225175
The problem with libertarians is that they are jealous and envious that Trump is doing what they wish they could do. If they would just know their role and shut their mouths this election year, Trump could really pave the way for them.
>>78229031
>and we all know they are not going to work for it
That's not knowledge. They can very well want to produce value themselves. I can't stand collectivism either but that doesn't mean you can erect faulty arguments and have them fly.
>>78225175
Don't step on snek
>>78229089
You can have no state and "share wealth and property" voluntarily. It's not impossible - just not my cup of tea.
>>78225175
>libertarian
>moral
>rational
Chose one pothead!
Sage this Hillary superpac shill thread!
>>78225175
>Libertarians
>Morally correct
... One of the major flaws of the philosophy is that it puts no checks on moral degeneracy.
>>78225566
Learn the anatomy of ducks dumbass.
Ducks breathe through their tongues and their throats are designed by blocked up by large fish, so they don't feel pain. They can breathe and they aren't in pain during the feedings for foie gras production.
Fucking liberals.
What I find funny is the Anarcho-communists who use the definition of anarchism "A system in which only legitimate hierarchies may exist.
To me they are saying. I am an anarchist, but I do believe in some hierarchies, but only the legitimate ones.
Is just like saying, I am an atheist, but I do believe in some Gods, but only the legitimate ones.
I like this definition of anarchy, I just don't like the word, I feel like minarchism is more appropriate as hierarchies are just a natural consequence of existence and are unavoidable.
>>78229380
https://youtu.be/FHPI1emZFVg?t=14m21s
>>78228900
law
prisons
closed borders
national defense
management of shared facilities
enforcement of contracts
>>78229084
>he believes in a literal oxymoron
>not sarcastic
>>78229249
>You can have no state and "share wealth and property" voluntarily.
It's not theoretically impossible, but it is practically impossible on a universal scale
>>78229380
It's degenerate to tell someone what they can and can't do with their own body on their own property.
>>78229089
>That picture of Stefan paired with that comment
Top kek.
>>78225668
you forget that libertarians push for tariffs
Everyone thinks that libertarians society would be almost anarchy.
Its really just what America is supposed to be
"for the people, by the people"
but a fucking leaf would never understand that perspective
The freedom to fail:
as a person
as a tribe
as a nation
>>78229524
Objectively that's not true on all counts.
http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf
>>78225175
>Morally correct
Lol what?
>Libertarians excel in an attribute that is based in collectivism and altruism
Stupid leftists.
Most peaceful cities on Earth are Tokyo, Osaka and Singapore; 2 have deep-rooted history of Confucian philosophy, while the other one was literally created by a guy who based his country off of Confucian teachings. While they're butchering a lot of his teachings, because of modern day globalism and capitalism, they're still standing as world leaders in peace.
Analetics:
[2:3] The Master said: “If you govern the people legalistically and control them by punishment,
they will avoid crime, but have no personal sense of shame. If you govern them by means of virtue and control them with propriety, they will gain their own sense of shame, and thus
correct themselves.”
Confucius taught "practicing honour". Most of his teachings are foreign to us, even national socialists, but chivalry back then would understand. The "west" as you think it is, isn't really what people say it is, and it's not falling; the west has already fallen. It fell when it absolved the monarchies and aristocracies, and replaced it with papers and laws created by men elected and voted in by people with money. We're a product of greed, and people are greedy today; they don't work for the sake of benefiting themselves and society, but they work to get money; such isn't a life worth preserving. You're all faggots, the left, the right; they're all classically leftist anyway. The real rightwing died long ago.
>>78225175
>Since libertarian is clearly the most morally correct and rational political philosophy
There isn't a libertardian country on the planet, and for good reason. I take that back, there are some, but those countries are run by warlords.
>>78229535
>you forget that libertarians push for tariffs
>>78225959
Please elaborate Mr. Leaf
In all sincerity
Tell me how the true upper or ruling class benefits from libertarianism
How does citizenship and personal sovereignty aid the globalist agenda
>>78229524
>literal oxymoron
Tell me where what I'm advocating violates the NAP.
The existence of a state that may not use Aggressive physical force.
A state which may impose tariffs on nations which have armies as reparations for their aggression by even having said armies.
Taxes on employers due to the coercive nature of employment.
Voluntarily funded concentration camps for anyone who disagrees with the NAP.
>>78229883
https://youtu.be/FHPI1emZFVg?t=14m21s
>>78229603
Do you have any original thoughts, or do you just spam ancap links?
>>78229920
>?
Tariffs on nations that have standing armies do not violate the NAP because that nation is being the aggressor by even having an army.
>>78230048
It's easier to point someone to a resource than it is explicitly enumerating how exactly they're wrong on every count. I'm making D&D characters right now.
>>78229603
communism doesn't work on a massive scale because people need price incentives to give a shit about others outside their tribal group
if you actually believe marxist concepts like the labor theory of value and surplus value then you might as well go back to reading a book on economics
>>78229959
>Tell me where what I'm advocating violates the NAP.
The fact that you're a fascist? That's what I'm saying you're so retarded you believe you can have a stateless fascist society
>>78229920
how the fuck do you pay for society without taxes?
There was a time in American history before the income tax
>>78229725
Because Confucian philosophy results in such great countries.
Its all a mish mash now. There's no perfect system, there's no 'pure' system, there is only marketing and buying. We live in a system capitalism that extends even to the ideas on which we live.
We are all traditionalists, We all sell and buy traditions everyday. Libertarians will not escape this until the next age of humanity, but then maybe it may become more relevant.
Libertarian in the original socialist meaning, yes.
>>78225175
Is the libertarian party being co-opted by (((you know who)))?
>>78230107
Do you know what a tariff is? Individuals aren't nations.
http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/pensees/pensees-SECTION-5.html
>>78229525
Capitalism and other flavors of "Free Market" philosophy LACK any form of humanity and morality.
BTW ... Not every interaction takes place on private property. The West is a degenerate cesspool because capitalism had destroyed barriers that morality provided. Now we have men becoming women and this is accepted.
Libertarian philosophy is not possible because the populace cannot be trusted to be moral agents and act to the same degree as an educated libertarian.
Also... simply limiting the size of a government does nothing but place a temporary hold on it's cancerous growth. Eventually it will grow again.
The lack of morality in a libertarian philosophy is it's absolute downfall.
>>78230171
>people need price incentives to give a shit
Not everyone.
>>78230153
Some people will follow the links and find things they've never seen before, others have already seen them and find the ancap answer to "What about the military?" severely lacking. When you just provide links you never get to have an actual discussion, you just give links to some shit that reinforces your own world view. It's a similar problem to only every discussing topics in an echo chamber.
>>78225175
Libertarianism fails for the same reason that communism fails:
What if people aren't cooperative, no matter what incentive they have?
You have to violate the spirit of the endeavour by either compromising your position, or using force.
>>78230171
My definition of anarchy is not a stateless society.
It is a society in which all hierarchies are legitimate.
And a hierarchy in which the state destroys all degenerates who violate the NAP: does not violate the NAP.
So long as the state does not violate the NAP it is not an illegitimate hierarchy as the only illegitimate hierarchies are those that require the initiation of physical force.
>>78230228
Define society for me, and tell me what exactly people are existentially incapable of paying for unless someone threatens them with violence to fork over for.
>>78230403
> "What about the military?" severely lacking
Lacking in which way?
I don't know in what world people are existentially incapable of paying for something they want without being forced by violence to do so.
>>78225175
I'm so tired of this goddammed cardboard-sign activism. When will this douchebag meme die?
>>78230296
Yes, individuals are not nations, however, when that business funds that nation with their taxes, they become intertwined with the state.
You could possibly make the argument that the business isn't there or paying taxes by choice, but that does not make it any less true that the army that the opposing nation has is funded through taxation of those businesses.
>>78230758
>when that business funds that nation with their taxes
When you buy and sell goods with other people, what they do with that money has nothing to do with you. You don't fund the mafia when you buy bread from a baker and the mafia afterwards extorts that baker.
>>78225175
Libertarianism without conservatism is a dangerous, rotten ideology. Paleoconservatism is the only way to go.
>>78228577
>>libertarianism is anarchism
That image is from south sudan.
>>78225175
Not whatever the fuck that dumb bitch is talking about.
Libertarianism isn't about cooperation. It's about leaving everyone the fuck a lone to do as they please and suffer the consequences or reap the rewards of their own actions.
>>78228577
Somalia was a failed socialist state. Don't know why this became a meme.
>>78225175
>>78230460
society-the aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community.
community-a group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common.
ok I think you used some words incorrectly but I understand I think. lemme answer.
I think your asking about supply and demand of resources between societies.
I have something you want,
you have something I want,
we both are incapable to steal from each other,
so each respective society will attempt to acquire resources with peaceful means
Its called like trade or something I think
>>78225175
there would be no roads
>>78230897
>You don't fund the mafia when you buy bread from a baker and the mafia afterwards extorts that baker.
You most certainly do, albeit inadvertently. Besides in most cases such businesses only exist because of the state, corporations are a legal fiction, thus they are an extension of the state. So I suppose I should be more specific.
A tariff on all imported goods being sent by corporations based in countries that have standing armies.
>>78229380
Because it's no one's right to put checks on others' "moral degeneracy". Consult religion about it, not the state.
>>78225175
>>78230358
My reply to you was tongue-in-cheek because degeneracy is subjective.
I'll work with the example you give of degeneracy: men becoming women. What we're looking at society becoming is one in which government actively supports this kind of behaviour. One in which government takes tax money from people and uses it to subsidize sex change operations. If you think a libertarian government is a bad idea because it won't stop degeneracy, then take a look around, because most governments in western countries actively encourage it.
Libertarianism's relationship with morality is different than whether it allows it or disallows it. Libertarianism instead views government as an entity that should itself be limited to only doing moral things.
But one thing you'll find with libertarianism, is that as much as other individuals are allowed to act degenerate, you as an individual are allowed to reject their degeneracy from your own life. Transexuals are quickly becoming a protected class of people in our society. You can pick and choose who comes into your home, but that's about it. I can't speak for all libertarians, but I do believe that most of us think that businesses and private organizations should be allowed to decide who they do and don't associate with, just like an individual can with their private home. Rejecting degeneracy is currently legally forbidden, you can get sued for not wanting a homosexual in your place of business. Under libertarianism you would have the freedom to reject degeneracy both as an individual, and organizations of like-minded people.
>>78230457
You are either very confused or not very smart. "Yes, let the state destroy degenerates."... So you want an entity that violates the NAP by its existence to decide who and who isn't destroyed by being labeled a degenerate. Our current state cannot even manage to keep social security going.
>>78231273
Define "order". I live next to a few hundred people and I never even interact with them - is that "order"?
I didn't use any words incorrectly - if you think I did point out where.
I'm not asking about supply and demand - I'm asking you to name a single good or service people are incapable of paying for without being taxed. Because in order for it to be impossible for people to "pay for society >>78230228 " without taxes, you need to come up with something they *CAN'T* pay for without taxes.
>>78231421
>there would be no roads.
In an "anarcho"capitalist, we don't need roads, because the dictator takes us for rides in his helicopter and lets us push out the communists.
>>78231510
>You most certainly do
No you don't. You have nothing to do with the mafia - after you exchange property, what you payed is no longer yours. It's none of your business.
>>78231625
"So you want an entity that violates the NAP by its existence "
How does the state violate the NAP by merely existing?
>>78230457
no one cares about your special snowflake definition, anarchy is anarchy, you don't just redefine common terms and use them expecting others to understand your hidden nuances
>>78231111
Voluntary association is a component of libertarian philosophy.
>>78225175
>spontaneous order
Am I being trolled softly?
>>78231545
If that is your belief I'm going to buy the house across the street from you. And every time you, your wife and/or your children are outside of your house I will walk to the VERY edge of my private property completely naked and masturbate while looking at them.
And you will approve of this action. And your wife will like it also, though she won't admit it. ;)
>>78231839
>How does the state violate the NAP by merely existing?
Taxation is necessarily coercive.
>>78230950
paleolibertarianism naturally emerges from libertarianism, lucky you, now stop fighting the people who are on your side and start fighting the real enemies
>>78231753
The money that was once mine is now in the hands of the mafia, that is inadvertently funding the mafia. With that being said, I should only be punished if I do so willfully. In the case of the baker you gave he would not be held accountable, just as a company getting taxed shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of the state that rules over it, However; some companies; corporations, are violent by their very existence as they are legal fictions. And because they are an extension of the government they can thus be justly taxed.
>>78231839
What funds the states existence
>>78225175
Drugs. Rape. Murder. Mayhem.
Like now.
Just more of it.
>>78231839
The state MUST use force to implement it's goals. And the state must claim a monopoly on force in a particular area. A state that cannot use force is impotent.
>>78230541
You're fooling yourself if you think that everyone that benefits from the existence of a military is going to voluntarily chip in their share. Most people wouldn't.
It's a nice idea, but it wouldn't work. I can accept that a lot of things currently handled by the government could easily be handled by the private sector, in fact, most things could. But the military? No way.
>>78232223
What happens with shit you have nothing to do with, as a matter of fact, has nothing to do with you. And you have nothing to do with property that's neither yours nor that you're borrowing.
>>78232075
>Haha, well I'm going to [hypothetical scenario of looney toon plausibility] to show you you're wrong.
Nah.
>>78231624
Great post, libertarianism leans more toward amorality which is a step in the right direction from where we are now
>>78231854
>no one cares about your special snowflake definition, anarchy is anarchy, you don't just redefine common terms and use them expecting others to understand your hidden nuances
My definition of Anarchy is the same one anarcho-communists use.
What does anarchy mean if it doesn't mean no legitimate hierarchies.
Do you think it means No hierarchies at all?
If so, then "Anarcho" capitalism is an oxymoron because class systems are inherently hierarchical.
What's your interpretation of "anarchism" then.
By my definition meritocracy is anarchy, but by yours, Meritocracy would violate the definition of anarchy because it is a hierarchy, regardless of the fact that it is a perfectly legitimate hierarchy.
>>78232075
NO! NO! I refuse to believe that's a real "person."
>>78232144
>Taxation is necessarily coercive.
The existence of a state does not necessitate taxation which violates the NAP.
For example.
Public roads funded by license plates which are voluntarily purchased does not violate the NAP.
The benefits received principal of taxation does not violate the NAP as there is a contract involved.
>>78232381
Then that's their prerogative. I prefer volunteer forces myself. Worst case scenario is still better than statism.
>>78231657
but lets use everyone's favorite example, roads
turnpike
private school
wait,wait you have some double negatives here
"service people are (capable) of paying for (with) being taxed"
and
"something they (can) pay for (with) taxes"
is this what you mean?
because there are many things you can pa for with taxes, there are many ways to fund everything.
But this is skipping the point, the point is the source of wealth
This is why libertarians are classically against federal funding
but I'm not trying to be a shit, I'm seriously confused by your language
>>78232075
>because of this hypothetical scenario, we should have a big mafia called the state which threatens people for not hiring non whites ad infinitum
>>78232248
>What funds the states existence
In an Anarcho-fascist/pinochet minarchist society, voluntary contributions to the state and taxation based on the benefits received principal of taxation. (which involves a voluntary contract)
>>78232733
>The existence of a state does not necessitate taxation
If there's not a group that claims a monopoly on the use of legitimate (ha) aggressive force there's no state. Does your "state" claim the right to do things ordinary Joes aren't allowed to do?
>>78232835
You're really inarticulate. Is English not your native language?
>>78225175
That's hard to say, but we know it will be based on private property and private property with no central state.
>>78232477
And my point is proven. Libertarians have no answer for such degeneracy. Not you, not any of you. It is a fantasy belief that does more harm than good.
Maybe you want your kids to see me rubbing my cock at them every morning before they go to school? Maybe you are that degenerate? But you certainly cannot find fault in my actions as I am exercising my will on my private property.
But of course in a Libertarian society such people would NEVER exist and such things would never happy.. Everyone would follow the NAP and be considerate of others... Suuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrreeeee they would... See how insufficient your philosophy actually is.
>>78232356
>A state that cannot use force is impotent.
Precisely.
I advocate a state which is a transition from the current system into an anarcho-capitalist one.
I am literally the right wing version of marx.
>>78232558
>stateless authoritarianism
>stateless statism
You failed logic
Again, your definitions are retarded, there are already common definitions for these terms. Anarchy is the absence of government and law if you use it in a political context. That's why what you are saying makes no sense to me or anyone you debate politics with.
>>78232921
>Does your "state" claim the right to do things ordinary Joes aren't allowed to do?
No, it's literally a corporation in which you elect the CEOs.
>>78231624
>I'll work with the example you give of degeneracy: men becoming women. What we're looking at society becoming is one in which government actively supports this kind of behaviour. One in which government takes tax money from people and uses it to subsidize sex change operations. If you think a libertarian government is a bad idea because it won't stop degeneracy, then take a look around, because most governments in western countries actively encourage it.
My lack of support for a libertarian society does not preclude my disdain for the current government/society.
The government won't limit itself. And it will inevitably grow.
... Libertarianism is an incomplete system of beliefs.
>>78233253
So it's not a state at all, unless it binds people who never agreed to be bound by whatever it decides and forces itself on them.
>>78233308
>and it will inevitably grow
If it will "inevitably" grow, it will also "inevitably" collapse. Your point?
>>78232588
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oY13Tqt9Dg
See attached video for proof that this uber degenerate cluster lives.
>>78233205
>Again, your definitions are retarded, there are already common definitions for these terms. Anarchy is the absence of government and law if you use it in a political context. That's why what you are saying makes no sense to me or anyone you debate politics with.
Very well then, I guess I'm not an anarchist, Just someone who believes all hierarchies should be legitimate, that the initiation of physical force is immoral, and that the preservation of a libertarian society necessitates a fascist single party state in which all dissenting opinions are muffled by the sound of Pinochet's whirling helicopter blades.
>>78231657
oh and the point of order
the arrangement or disposition of people or things in relation to each other according to a particular sequence, pattern, or method.
so yes, there are many layers of order in your societal experience as well as with nature, but thats another subject
Realization of interaction from a higher dimension or perspective is not relevant for a structure to be valid
ex:
in a coma in a hospital
or
in a theoretically perfect solitary confinement cell inside of a cell block of multiple solitary confinement cells
btw no pics are related, I just roll the dice
>teach the NAP and other philosophy to all children
>when they grow up all spanking is gon and strong anti government sentiment spreads
>after a generation or two the state is abolished and a true an-cap society is established
>everyone has at least a 105+ ìIQ and can be self sufficient and will ostracize the violent and deceitful individuals
Just try to prove to me how this won't work I dare you
>>78233359
Yes. I've been trying to explain this but yes.
My state is not a state.
Just a fascist corporation which provides voluntary services over an indigenous geographical location.
>>78232838
No you silly billy goat.. why do you assume I support the state.
I am pointing out a major flaw in your philosophical belief system.
>>78233584
What's "fascist" about it, exactly? If it has actual "fascist" elements, it *WOULD* be a state. All authoritarianism is anti-libertarian.
>>78233530
uhhh uhhhh
shut up LOLbertarian
I mean liBERGtarian
is /pol/ divided yet, can I get my check
>>78225959
>>78229947
It's been 40 minutes leaf. I too am curious.
>>78233012
Do you think you will have a place in said state?
Capitalism promotes degeneracy because "everyone is a customer". The dollar is worshiped like a God and the market decides what is good. All sense of morality is absent.
>>78225175
Spontaneous order isn't likely to happen.
>>78232948
I believe you are the one using multiple double negatives and misusing the word existentially
" having being in time and space"
I believe you meant to say external
but thats probably above 3rd grade vocabulary
oh and you ended 3 sentences with prepositions
thats not making america great
>>78233439
The point is it is a waste of time. A speed bump on the road to state dominance.
>mfw people still conflate libertarianism with anarchism
this meme must die
>>78233823
>inb4 evolution meme
>>78233923
libertarianism, the ultimate meme ideology, needs to die
>>78233689
>>78233496
>Just someone who believes all hierarchies should be legitimate, that the initiation of physical force is immoral
Hierarchies are naturally enforced through physical force in anarchy, so there exists a conundrum there.
>preservation of a libertarian society necessitates a fascist single party state
I don't see how this is true. Most single-party states are authoritarian societies which maintains policies antithetical to libertarian precedents. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I believe there needs to be a balance, checks & balances in politics to limit human political greed and abuse because the state has a special privilege of coercion.
>>78226579
>Libertarianism sounds great until you look deeper than the dude weed stuff.
who cares if some 420 fag is a libertarian, that doesn't remove the entire ideology from being logical
>>78232075
I'll live in a neighbourhood with a Home Owner's Association that doesn't allow this kind of behaviour.
And you are perfectly welcome to move into a neighbourhood of like-minded individuals that do allow that kind of behaviour, and you can all stand on your front lawns and masturbate at each other. Good luck!
>>78233703
It's fascist in that it is single party.
Think of stefans "Against me" argument.
If someone advocates a state they are advocating violence, therefore you have the right to defend yourself. Killing a communist thus does not violate the NAP because the communist wants you to be shot if you do not comply with his demands. He thinks the state can kill you for not paying taxes. Killing them is self defense.
It's single party in that anyone who disagrees is literally advocating violence.
We believe in the NAP.
They don't.
Because they don't they are threatening us and are thus signing their own warrant to be either imprisoned or executed depending on the level of violence they advocate.
Democrats, republicans and normies get prison.
Communists get death.
>>78233587
>hypothetical scenarios are major flaws
I'll take the political ideology that best advocates for macro prosperity in all avenues.
>>78233923
I'm with ya
>inb4 1 post by this fucking leaf
>>78233806
>Do you think you will have a place in said state?
I'd love to be the one that pushes communists out of helicopters.
"Capitalism promotes degeneracy because "everyone is a customer". The dollar is worshiped like a God and the market decides what is good."
Is it not a good thing that the market decides? After all, the market is controlled by consumers, and is thus a form of nonviolent democracy.
>>78232075
>tfw when this faggot fuck can grow a full beard and I can't
>>78234219
Good luck...you can run but you can't hide from me corrupting your family.
>>78233823
spontaneous order has already happened in biological and evolutionary contexts, what makes you think that politics or economics are special? We are a literal product of spontaneous order built from non-living to living molecules which make up our current physiology...
>>78233999
nice trips, statist
>>78233599
I'll check you dubs as a victory lap
I don't think you deserved it but its KEK's will
Maybe you should watch a nice Osho video to calm down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otGQqO2TYMI
>>78225175
>what would a libertarian society be like
Hard to say. Could be more like Mogadishu or Afghanistan, both are pretty much libertarian Utopias at this point
>>78234092
"I don't see how this is true. Most single-party states are authoritarian societies which maintains policies antithetical to libertarian precedents. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I believe there needs to be a balance, checks & balances in politics to limit human political greed and abuse because the state has a special privilege of coercion."
I guess you could say it's a privately owned, democratically elected, confederated republic of nation states which may not violate the NAP.
I don't know how to explain it other than a massive corporation which is held accountable by the fact that taxes are voluntary and if the state steps out of line people stop funding it as a fail safe.
There has to be a central authority for diplomacy and national defense, everything else is left up to local governments, and I mean REALLY local. Like each county or congressional district is a nationstate.
And dual federalism is Strictly enforced.
Markets would provide all services.
>>78234451
Take Europe as an example. The West embraced capitalism and is now on a path to suicide. The East was communist and still holds to tradition and keeps its population native. Capitalism has done more damage to the West than Communism did to the East. And communism was very harmful.
>>78234219
You live on a real private title property right? Not some kind of strata or community title or something?
If people own their own land how can anyone other than governments (eg local councils, state/province govt etc) tell you what you can and can't do on your own land?
Great. A society of autistic sociopaths.
>>78227074
That's actually pretty tame for Florida.
>>78225175
>What would a libertarian society be like?
Somewhere in between the America of the founding fathers. (No income tax, no gun laws, etc) and Switzerland or Monaco today.
>>78225175
It'd be a free for all, near anarchy, until someone amassed enough power to force everyone to toe the line as they desire.
Libertarianism is just about as stupid as communism.
>>78235018
There is a reason for that. Russia is based alt right because of communism. What you are seeing now is the pendulum swinging back in the other direction as a direct result of communism. What's happening in america and europe is the infiltration of communism, more specifically, cultural marxism.
Libertarians are anarchists without no balls or conviction
>government is bad and there should be no government
>why do people keep stealing from me?
>sure are a lot of pot holes, who's supposed to fix these roads?
>>78229195
This. Come on, fags, try to make up all the shit you want to deny that pic, go on, I'm reading.
>>78234641
start taking hormones?....
I can grow a better beard than this faggot degenerate ... You are lucky because you save time and money on shaving supplies.
>>78227639
Nice try though..
>>78225175
Libertarianism is just inverted socialism
Socialists believe the government will make perfect decisions of the stupid regular people would just quit interfering
Libertarians believe the regular people will make perfect decisions if the stupid government would just quit interfering
Both are just overly ambitious intellectual exercises that don't take the complexities of lived human experience into account. This is why libertarianism is the inevitable ideology of all introverted college freshmen and socialism of all extroverted college freshman.
In both cases all the hard work and tough choices and imperfect solutions are wished away by one child like simplifying mental gesture pretending to be a world view.
Sometimes it's good to have people in power with authority making decisions and sometimes it's not. Or rather sometimes it's better on some things for some people... Until it isn't.
Libertarianism is especially unworkable In a diverse society where minorities will take any freedom they have as an excuse to start raping you. One consistent set of simple rules can't apply to everyone
>>78235422
>sure are a lot of pot holes, who's supposed to fix these roads?
Nah you're just triggered because we laugh at your religion.
And Euro-studies have been done in cities which removed all traffic lights. Yeah accidents went down and traffic got better.
>>78234991
I know this is a shitpost
but it is the natural order
nature progresses and adapts without any outside control
>>78235253
Anarchy simply means "no ruler" an ... without arkos or arkon ... In ancient Greece it was a slave owner. ....
Look at Somalia and Haiti... the problem isn't Anarchy .. it is a genetic, BLACK... and religious problem MUSLIM...
Libertarians also promote diversity and neglect any notion that race may play a negative role. The fact is multicultural societies fail.
>>78228847
AnarchoCommunism is called that because the abolition of private property makes it both anarchist and communist.
I'm not an an/com, this isn't hard to understand though.
>>78235960
>Libertarians also promote diversity and neglect any notion that race may play a negative role. The fact is multicultural societies fail.
Wrong and stupid. The original libertarians, the founding fathers, were Natsoc or Racialist Libertarians. Unlimited freedom for white Christians only. (White Males technically) the whip or worse for any blacks that got ideas.
>>78235617
Naw, don't need hormones... I can grow a goatee just fine. When I grow a beard it's patchy. It's just genetics.
>>78232381
Dude you people shitting on libertarians are so tunnel visioned on your criticizing of them as people, instead of the ideology, that you have lost all objectivity.
You are not even talking about a libertarian society. You're talking about some anarchist-pacifist thing or something. Libertarianism only refers to the way in which governments MAKES laws, or more specifically, the core philosophy that is the sole blue print for how to morally deconstruct, construct, and create its laws.
Not the form of government (and thus, society).
A military could exist if that particular society wanted one just fine - and they could tax for it just like any other.
>>78234941
>taxes are voluntary
taxes are necessarily coercive, or else they are called donations
>localization of laws which induce competition between judicial entities
first good thing I've seen come out of your hands
anyways besides the fascism, what you're describing is analogous to the political precedents of the founding fathers whom i believe had the right idea
>>78235070
I can't tell if your questions are about my real life, or that hypothetical situation to the post I was replying to.
I probably shouldn't have replied to that guy, since I'm not actually an NAP libertarian, and I don't want to get stuck defending that position. But his hypothetical scenario is a pretty good monkey wrench to their way of thinking and the other replies to him were just brushing it off, so I wanted to put something out there that approached an actual solution. His reply was good though... a Home Owner's Association isn't going to stop people from being indecent everywhere. People that subscribe to the NAP should ask themselves whether indecency is a breach of the NAP. If so, why? Because they say so? Or can this immoral behaviour be prohibited morally through the power of democracy? And, if so, could democracy not also be used to make other things (like taxation) by the government a moral action?
>>78236256
Tax is a membership fee for society.
Localization of laws depends on the type of law and its effect. Some will work better nationally, others locally, and some in intermediate levels.
>>78236424
Just replying to the idea of a homeowners association deciding what you can do on your own land was a wierd one to me :)
>>78235825
>appeal to moderation
>Libertarianism is especially unworkable In a diverse society where minorities will take any freedom they have as an excuse to start raping you. One consistent set of simple rules can't apply to everyone
That's why we need to form our own nation state and implement selective immigration in our libertarian society
>>78235960
>Libertarians also promote diversity and neglect any notion that race may play a negative role. The fact is multicultural societies fail.
You're thinking of cultural marxism.
>>78236148
Wrong.. because they aren't like that any longer...
Your false claim is like saying "Hey the Democrats were the party of the South... They are still conservative today!"
>>78236769
>You're thinking of cultural marxism.
No, that does the same thing...libs don't have a moral code.
>>78236038
anarcho-capitalism is the only form of anarchy, because unbridled free market capitalism is the only economic system which naturally emerges during the period which anarchism prevails. All other forms of anarchy are pipe dreams proposed by people more concerned with fantasies and intellectual masturbation
Libertarianism is like conservatism on weed.
Many of the same basic tenets, but all happy and optimistic.
>>78236597
That's how it currently works. Whether those properties are freehold, or some kind of strata, I don't know off the top of my head.
Most libertarians probably don't currently live in HOAs, because HOAs right now are just a way to go above and beyond all the shitty rules we already have. But in the absence of ordinances by a local government people that want those kinds of rules that keep their neighbour from turning their yard into a junkyard or a pig farm or whatever, would turn to HOAs
>>78236256
>taxes are necessarily coercive, or else they are called donations
Are you familiar with the benefits received principal? Basicaly you pay taxes voluntarily for a government service, essentially turning the state into a business.
>first good thing I've seen come out of your hands
>anyways besides the fascism, what you're describing is analogous to the political precedents of the founding fathers whom i believe had the right idea
It's really a semantics argument. I can't think of how else to describe a system in which the state may not initiate force and where all dissenters are either executed, imprisoned, or deported. Preferably deported. Into the ocean. Via a helicopter.
I have a theory of taxation.
It's based off the idea of "trickle down economics doesn't work."
I believe the municipal local governments may only tax the incomes of businesses. This way, they will either A. (according to right wing economics raise their prices) or B. (according to liberals nothing will happen).
What this results in is a competitive system in which either A. Prices are high incentivising people to advocate smaller government, or B. nothing happens and everything works out just fine.
Either way this competition will drive taxes down substantially.
Just imagine if Texas wasn't subject to federal taxes. I mean for fucks sake that would be insane. States like New York and California would turn into failed states because they could no longer leach off productive people. But more importantly, red states would be left to prosper.
>>78237002
That sounds like what local councils are *for*.
I can get it happenning in strata or something since you don't really own the property, you own the right to occupy the property owned by strata, which sets the rules. But freehold...
But hey whatever works.
>>78236939
Do you have more than 5 real world examples conveying your claim there?
>>78236514
Almost all laws do better locally, because they are subject to competition for taxpayer coin. On the city level the degree of competition is overwhelming, on the state less-so and on the federal almost non-existent. This is due to practical factors such as relocation by the customers (taxpayers) of the local state. On the federal level, there must be a great reason to move out of the country. Moving between cities is natural and easy.
Crucially, laws should only be delegated at the federal level *when necessary*, and one must actively argue for its necessity else the laws would be delegated to the states or more local judicial entities. That is, laws should be delegated to the most local judicial entity unless there is a necessity for it to be delegated more broadly.
lol who tf wants a librarian society with books n shit
>>78236939
>All other forms of anarchy are pipe dreams proposed by people more concerned with fantasies and intellectual masturbation
kek
Questions for you all.
Name one person who has influenced your views the most.
UTOPIA
>>78233530
>Just try to prove to me how this won't work I dare you
Ok. Assuming everyone has at least a 105+ IQ, then that means also the violent and deceitful individuals have at least a 105+ IQ.
Assuming violent and deceitful individuals get ostracized, meaning excluded of social interaction with the general population, you end up with a sub-society consisting of violent and deceitful individuals with at least 105+ IQ who are forced to cooperate with each other since it's their only social group.
Can you see where I'm going with this?
>>78225175
Look at any failed state
>>78237176
>Are you familiar with the benefits received principal? Basicaly you pay taxes voluntarily for a government service, essentially turning the state into a business.
I don't see this practically working. People will opt-out of paying taxes, taxes would have to increase to unreasonable rates for the proportion of altruistic taxpayers, and the downward spiral would progress until the state lacked funds to operate. Since the state provides services that are very communally-oriented, absence of direct service isn't very conducive to non-coercion. Coercion is necessary for macro-communal services.
>I can't think of how else to describe a system in which the state may not initiate force and where all dissenters are either executed, imprisoned, or deported.
You won't be able to because execution for lack of obedience and the initiation of force are just a tad bit mutually incompatible.
>>78225175
SHE'S CUTE I'D FUCK HER
>>78225175
>tattoo
The trash man cometh!
>>78237578
Anarchism doesn't even get off its feet on a macro level, but you live in a nation in which libertarianism prospered and you lot are actively undermining its principles.
All of these meme economic systems like socialism and communism require coercion to function because they require redistribution of wealth and means of production. Communism can only succeed in small tribal societies with less than the population of dunbar's number. After that number, you can't care enough for others to ensure the trustful relationship necessary for shared resource distribution. This is where price signals come into play.
Contrary to what most people believe, Somalia wasn't actually anarchist, it implemented a form of polycentric law.
>>78239160
>I don't see this practically working. People will opt-out of paying taxes, taxes would have to increase to unreasonable rates for the proportion of altruistic taxpayers, and the downward spiral would progress until the state lacked funds to operate. Since the state provides services that are very communally-oriented, absence of direct service isn't very conducive to non-coercion. Coercion is necessary for macro-communal services.
I mainly advocate the abolishing of income taxes on individuals, not on businesses.
The point of having this "state" is as a fail safe.
I can almost garantee that the private services will always be cheaper, the state services merely exist as a back up should a company go bankrupt. If the private fire dept goes out of business and nobody has the capital in that local area to purchase it, then the state will need to run a fire dept so that people are not burning alive.
I do however have a problem with the idea of the privatization of roads. Call me a communist faggot but I think they would be too easily monopolized and people would get fucked over. Of course it could be that anyone who pays for the road would make the road owner sign a contract stating he would not inflate prices, and this could be a way around this problem. But I have a lack of real world examples of such a thing working and thus am not sufficiently convinced that we could trust people to be so conscious about such contracts and so a state apparatus may be needed to organize such arrangements, but Idk.
I certainly know there should be zoning laws as people who build ugly buildings next to residential homes are destroying property values which is an act of aggression.
I also have come to the conclusion that people are not capable of the organization requires to sue people for pollution, therefore, the state has a place taxing carbon emissions ect and using those funds on environmental protection voted on in local municipalities.
>>78240181
You misunderstand me - I am agreeing with you on pretty much everything. I was just asking to see if we're as right as we think we are.
>>78240650
even public roads contract for-profit private entities
states are privatizing their roads, their prisons, everything because with profit incentive those private contractors spend less resources and make a profit which they use to invest into more cost savings in the future
government wants to build a highway or some roads, contractors bid for the construction and management of the roads
or a private company wants to build a road, asks permission to build from the state, and runs it for-profit
the former is still funded through coerced taxpayer money, but at least is subject to competition for bidding of their service for a temporary period of time
the latter is not subject to taxpayer money, better have a good revenue model so you can fund the construction and management of the road
regardless, both are subject to governmental regulations which may or may not be a good thing
>>78236939
No, not really. During real anarchy, nobody gives a fuck about your property. The only kind of anarchy that would ever happen, if push came to shove, is individualist anarchism. When there's no state, nobody gives a fuck about your contract, your borders, your anything.
>>78238343
Korwin-Mikke
