If you get in a conversation with a Libetard and want to prove that there are only 2 genders and the rest are mental disorders, how do you back it up?
Are there any reliable articles or scientific papers out there about this issue?
Bumping
Every cell in the body has either an xx or an xy chromosome. There are very rare chromosomal disorders but those also usually accompany some form of slight disfigurement.
>>78174122
That's not enough to convince a brainwashed Liberal.
Show me a solid source to back the premise.
>>78174464
Basic biology.
>>78175115
>>78173538
OP confirmed for idiot
> believes something without scientific evidence
>>78173538
>>78173538
You can't reason with an irrational person. Just punch them and walk away.
>>78174464
Maybe the reason you can't convince your brainwashed liberals is because you fail to understand they all they want is for everyone to to be happy. If defining more genders makes people more comfortable in their skin, why not do it?
There are thousands of people trying to fit into their birth gender and failing. If they were given the chance to choose one for themselves they'd be much happier and productive members of society.
>>78173538
I seriously cant debate people on this. I just get instantly triggered. There's only 2 things that triggers me ; flat earther and this.
It's simply so fucking overly retarded i discard anyone from my life who unironically thinks there's more than 2 genders. To even consider that progressively more gender pops out of existence is completely demented
>>78173538
Common sense ain't so common anymore. Damn shame.
>>78176019
in 50 years silly people like you will be gone and the world will be a better place :)
>>78173538
If you want to piss off a SJW, just say you're an ally.
There's nothing they hate more than allies.
>>78175824
>>78175926
Good point. While we are at it, I'd like to chose my own laws of Physics. I feel constrained by the accepted ones.
>>78174464
The problem with arguing with a brainwashed individual is that their brain doesn't work correctly. What you're trying to accomplish is beyond an uphill battle. You're trying to escape a black hole at sub-light speeds.
>>78173538
It's basic biology. There are two types of gamates used for sexual reproduction, sprem and eggs, male and female. Anything else has no biological basis and is therefore mentall illness.
>>78176084
That sounds like a final solution. Tell us more about your support for Adolf Hitler.
P.S. unrepentant fags go to hell.
>If you get in a conversation with a Libetard and want to prove
Stop right there, turn 360 degrees and moonwalk away. Don't fucking argue with libs if you can't even hold your own or speak properly, you'll get diced.
Explain chromosomes
>>78173538
sexual dimorphism is a thing
even when they talk about spectrums, they're force to admit it's a spectrum between 'male' and 'female'
to destroy the spectrum argument, you need to argue from the standpoint of what contributes to a healthy, functioning society. use Kant's categorical imperative: "does having 31+ genders that children pick from a restaurant menu seem like a good idea for a healthy society? should everyone behave this way?"
>>78175599
There is this thing called common-sense. It's useful.
>>78175926
I have absolutely no problem with any of these people. Don't get me wrong. I'm all about acceptance, and I think people who show hatred towards the LGBT community are also mentally sick.
All I'm saying is Liberals are doing way more harm than good by going one giant step further and ignore the mental disorders that cause this gender identity crisis in people.
You can be loving and accepting, and at the same time recognize the root cause of the problem.
>>78176263
>Stop right there, turn 360 degrees and moonwalk away.
gave me nostalgia feels for the old days of /b/
>>78173538
What is this shit?
Honestly this is the sort of stuff that makes me want to give up on life
It's cool how our the Unown from Pokémon now all represent a gender orientation
>>78175926
>If they were given the chance to choose one for themselves they'd be much happier and productive members of society.
nah. nah, senpai.
>>78175926
Maybe the reason you can't convince your brainwashed liberals is because you fail to understand they all they want is for everyone to to be happy
Unless you're a Christian bakery that doesn't want to bake a dildo- & buttplug-themed wedding cake for a gay couple.
Then they want you to feel pain. They want your business to be shut down. They want to sue you. They want you dead for going against the 'social justice' doctrine.
Don't pretend your movement is about loving everyone. It isn't.
>>78173538
Pokemon's Unown warned us about this
we didn't listen
>>78176138
It's not like that, male and female still exist its just that we are developing more terms for everything inbetween (and below, above sideways etc..) so that we can have a richer conversation about gender.
>>78176010
Im curious for those who debate those people :
what do you even say ? It's like denying that the sky is blue. What can you even say to these people ?
>>78176898
>richer conversation about gender.
Gibberish does not enrich conversations.
>>78176750
Ok that was rude.
But getting kicked out of your parents house at 18 because you are gay or trans? Constantly feeling your parents hate you because you don't fit in with thckingeir vision for your gender? That is fucking brutal and not comparable. This is the shit that creates meth addicts.
>>78176402
>All I'm saying is Liberals are doing way more harm than good by going one giant step further and ignore the mental disorders that cause this gender identity crisis in people.
I'm a liberal, and I don't really disagree, but you have to recognize what's driven LGBT+ types to this kind of rhetoric: exactly the kinds of people who post here.
The average poster on here has so many opinions about trans people, all of which are negative, most of which are actually contradictory, yet still he manages to hold them all at once. "It's a mental illness," "it's a choice," "it's just a sexual fetish," whichever one lets him be the biggest dick possible and at all costs avoid treating trans people humanely, because it's never actually been about truth: it's that most of the people on here are viscerally disgusted by trans people and will do anything to rationalize shitting on them. It's never been about truth for either side, but one side flaunts the truth in an effort to treat people with kindness and acceptance and one side flaunts the truth in order to degrade them.
And before somebody posts
>falling for the /pol/ is a single person meme
Fuck you, I've had innumerable discussions about this on here and with very few exceptions y'all behave exactly the same. The poster I quoted is one of those very few exceptions.
>>78176402
The leaf gets it
>>78175926
so... why are they all commiting suicide if they are happy with their made up gender?
>>78177418
Go vote for Hillary you fucking faggot, then LGBT can actually have something to complain about from the Muslims throwing them off buildings in San Francisco and then media brushing over it as "cultural misunderstandings"
>>78177629
Got any statistics about this? I'd assume its because they got pretty fucked up by parents and society and still couldn't get through that pain.
>>78177418
>>78177418
And which side started flaunting? I could not give a shit about your sexual identity, no one fucking does, stop makig it fucking news, stop all this fucking nonsense, NO ONE FUCKING CARES, when they stop trying to shove the "pls accept me for me:)" bullshit, il stop criticizing them.
>>78177820
haha you basically admitted you were wrong by not addressing the counter argument
>>78177999
There are no sides... You might become a parent to one of these people, then it'll be your problem as well.
>>78178316
>There are no sides.
There are my sides when I read this crazy shit.
>>78177418
>truth
how much proof do you need to have other than chromosome and the dick to understand that trans-female are males ?
How much proof do you need to understand that a male who thinks he's a woman is mentally ill ? If a black man thinks he's chinese or if a girl think she's a cat, is it a choice too ? How about if im 6' but I think im 5', is it normal too ?
Oh and yes trans are disgusting to look at so what ? They look like abominations or creatures straight up from a silent hill game. Im not sure how thats relevent to anything. You think im gonna pretend like they look just fine ?
>If you get in a conversation with a Libetard
These people are brainwashed, facts and logic won't change their opinion because their entire ideology is an appeal to emotion.
They're not liberals, they're not LGBT, they're not SJWs, they're kids that have been brainwashed. They deserve pity if anything.
The only thing we can do is halt the brainwashing process by providing as much access to information as we can for children of the future. Do not pressure them into this information, don't trying to push them into it, just make sure it is and always will be available and not hidden from the public eye.
They are trying to teach fake science, fake math, fake economics, fake religion, fake everything. We must simply make sure that logic and reason do not die.
>>78177994
I am not your secretary.
Google "suicide transsexual" and you will get 447.000 results.
And transition makes them even more suicidal.
> http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm
Your pro-LGBTQ propaganda it literally killing them.
>>78176402
Ok even if it is a mental illness people need to be able to feel comfortable being open about it. Imagine having autism and no one believing you and everyone just telling you to suck it up.
>>78177820
I'm a liberal, not a hypocrite. I'm never going to support bringing bigots from backwards, repressive countries into my country so that they can harass, rape, and murder my fellow citizens. I know what fundamentalist Islam is like. It's safe to say I vote accordingly.
Why is it that whenever somebody admits to being a liberal on here, you people have to invent a multiculturalist position and attack that instead? I don't hold all of you responsible for your politicians' disastrously irresponsible environmental policies.
>>78178585
That's called "enabling"
>>78178512
Woah shit I never said anything about transitioning. I would hope the medical professionals have done their research and are doing what is best of the patient.
Maybe they kill themselves because society doesn't accept their tranisition?
But lots of people want to identify as non-binary without transitioning too
>>78178585
> Imagine having autism and no one believing you and everyone just telling you to suck it up.
the debate isnt even ''do you believe in that mental illness''?
the debate is (for some unknown reasons) ''are you mentally ill or not''
we're not looking to treat them we're all fucking pretending like it's normal. Meanwhile they all kill themselves and live crippled lives
>>78178316
My child will be raised with traditional standards
>>78178512
You didn't actually read that article, did you? Like -- you literally didn't read it.
That's not what the study shows, at all, and its author (interviewed in the fucking link you just gave) has disavowed that interpretation of it. She has this to say:
"Of course trans medical and psychological care is efficacious. A 2010 meta-analysis confirmed by studies thereafter show that medical gender confirming interventions reduces gender dysphoria."
>>78178764
Because the loudest of your group dont care
>>78178991
The reason is that maybe their brains are actually completely fine, it's just they have found themselves in the incorrect body and set of chromosones. So it just becomes a physical problem, but society makes it a mental problem by not being accepting.
>>78178585
Instead of telling them
> “Everything is fine, you are not mentally ill. Go and do what you want. We will even cut off your penis and form a vagina if you want.”
we should help them.
They need the same psychological treatment as schizophrenic people.
>>78179206
The loudest conservative activists and politicians show your side in an extremely poor light too. Maybe it's a bad idea to let them represent millions of people with very diverse opinions?
>>78179296
We are still in the infancy of our knowledge when it comes to treating mental illness.
Some people can actualyl learn to live with schizophernia and it can work better for them than 'treatment'
( https://www.ted.com/talks/eleanor_longden_the_voices_in_my_head?language=en )
How would you help these people? Assuming you have tried and failed to convince them they are male or female.
>>78179077
>My child will be raised with traditional standards
Then you better lock him in the house, remove TV, the internet, and print media.
>>78179077
And so will feel a massive need to rebel against your bullshit!
>>78179171
>"Of course trans medical and psychological care is efficacious. A 2010 meta-analysis confirmed by studies thereafter show that medical gender confirming interventions reduces gender dysphoria."
You are cherry picking.
I said that that trans people are more suicidal. And that they get even more suicidal after the transition.
There are thousands of sites out there where you can read that — the study i linked is one of them.
>>78179227
>Maybe having a female brain in a 100% male body is fine
>maybe everything is wrong except that 1 organ
Their brain is fine... except for the fact that they believe to be something they're not. The skyzo brain is perfectly fine I mean he just hear voices but outside of that, all is good.
Otherkins are fine too. I mean they're dragons in the body of a human. Clearly the brain is perfectly fine they're just in the wrong body. FUS ROH DA
>>78179296
The reason that we treat trans people with hormone therapy, SRS, etc, is because both traditional therapy & medication of all sorts has proven completely ineffective in curing gender dysphoria. Completely fucking ineffective. There's no known way of "curing" or even treating the mental aspect of the condition. That's why we "treat" the physical aspect, yes, messily and very imperfectly. It is above all an attempt at pain reduction -- the best of a set of incredibly bad options.
If you bring up the fucking paper about pimozide I will personally fly to Austria and slap you. Bringing it up in this context is the fastest way to show you neither read nor made an attempt to understand the study.
>>78179600
>Some people can actualyl learn to live with schizophernia and it can work better for them than 'treatment'
Learning to live with it is part of their treatment.
And they can only live with it, if they accept that they are mentally ill.
Nobody of them tries to tell us that it's perfectly normal. They accept that THEY have to try to change and not the society.
>>78173538
It's all about eye-contact. You look them dead in the eye and tell them. No remorse, no regret
>>78179740
That's literally the opposite of what her study showed, you fucking nemchik. You didn't read her study, you didn't read the interview you linked, and you don't have enough of a knowledge base to put the information into context even if you did.
I'm not cherrypicking -- the point of the entire interview is the author of the study decrying how it's been misinterpreted by conservative activists. She supports transitioning (for those people who really do seem to need it.) Her contention is that it's not enough, because, well, of course it's not. I believe I already mentioned "messy" and "imperfect," because of course not all post-op trans people pass in society and their very existence is taboo. It's NOT A GOOD OPTION. It's merely the best one we have.
>>78178864
>Maybe they kill themselves because society doesn't accept their tranisition?
> Maybe
> Maybe
Yeah, maybe.
But:
Maybe not!
Not the hidden closet trans people are commiting suicide — the „Look at me, i am trans, accept me!!!“ people are doing it.
>>78180338
>That's literally the opposite of what her study showed
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
<- quote from the study
>>78179556
Im not a conservative mate
>>78180704
Are you seriously too thick to see where you're going wrong?
It's saying that post-op trans people have higher rates for suicide etc than the GENERAL POPULATION.
Not higher than pre-op trans people or trans people who do not seek treatment.
That quote (& the whole study) is basically saying, transitioning is not enough to dampen the trans suicide rate down to a "normal" level. And of course it's not.
There's no credible data on the suicide rate for pre-op trans people, because we do not know how many people who never seek treatment commit suicide because they're trans, and there's no easy way of obtaining that data. But the general consensus is that the suicide for pre-ops is even higher than the, yes, very scary rate for post-ops.
Do you understand now?
>>78179612
I didnt say i would raise a retarded kid.
>>78173538
Gender is distinct from, but drawing upon biological sex. (in this context)
Our society gives people gender roles according to their physical appearance. Like boys don't wear dresses or girls don't walk around topless.
In olden times this used to be distinct spheres that one did not cross. Women would not go fishing and men would not go in the kitchen, these were lines one did not cross as they where important to the structure of society.
After the industrial revolution these spheres started overlapping and the social structure adapted, making gender less relevant.
But the traits associated with the genders lingered, partly because of biological truths.
Men are stronger, women more protective of children etc.
Now some people feel that gender, and by extension gender roles should be defined by the individual and not society. This is of course insane as gender is by definition assigned by society.
Society will always see men as strong, women as motherly and anyone else as a fruit loop.
>>78181240
Then I'm sorry for assuming. But I hope you get my point, which is that taking the loudest activists (and the politicians we're stuck with) as representative of their entire ideological base is unreasonable. Especially in our country, with our two-party system; it doesn't allow for very nuanced positions to be fairly represented. If I vote for a politician who is against immigration, I'm effectively voting for climate change denial (amid a whole host of unpalatable conservative policies), and vice versa.
>>78175926
>>78176084
>Found the tranny
>>78182039
Yeah I understand, you made good points this thread
>>78182297
Thanks for the kind words. It's always nice when people respond courteously on here (doubly so because of how rare it is!)
>>78176506
I guess 2010 is old now?
