>implying minarchism isn't the real red-pill
Syndicalism isn't forcing equality, forcing anything isn't anarchy. Anything anarchy is necessarily a bad, naive idea.
That graphic is dumb.
Also, national syndicalism is the real red pill. The first stepping stone is libertarianism, which BTW isn't ancap.
>>78167293
Anarchy is unnatural and unsustainable. Hierarchy is inherent to human behavior.
>>78167293
>Is anarcho-primitivism the ultimate redpill?
It's the best foundation for a personal philosophy. It will make your life amazing within the shit system we have.
On a practical level, though, widespread implementation of the ideal is impossible and will never happen.
>>78167293
>muh nature
fucking gay, burn all trees, slaughter all animals!
>>78168094
t. eternal autistic krautz
>>78167293
No, but primitivism is a good outlook, most of what gives a society the means and excuse to degenerate morally and mentally is technology.
I'd say the redpill is feudalism, or extreme balkanization, with an emphasis on technological setback and abolishment of technologies which are not essential, like transportation and communication. The fact is that those technologies give the means to globalization, restriction of freedoms and mental deconstruction.
The only problem being, it's simply too late.
>>78168281
How did you know?
>>78167849
yeah i have similar feelings. I personally think some form of neotribalism would be redpilled
>People think any form of Anarchy works
AHhAhahSHHSAHSHAHAHAHHAHA
AHBAHAHHAHAHHAA
AAHHAHAHAHA
AHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA
AHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAAHHAA
AHHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHHAHAHAA
AHHAHAHHAHAAAHHHHHAHHAHAHA
How's it like being 12 years old again.
>>78169319
>leaf
>>78167293
Ancap and Anprim look fucking retarded. I r8 14/88 m8.
>>78171334
But ansyn dosen't?
>>78167293
National Anarchy is the best.
>>78170117
thats the abyss calling the kettle black
>>78167293
>Man is part of the earth.
Yes. We are products of nature. Everything we do and build is natural. I don't understand what his point is. You wouldn't call a beaver dam """""fake""""" because some creature made it, would you?
I don't understand why people somehow think we're separate from nature. We are products of nature, our brains and our hands are just as natural as anything else, so are the things we do with them.
>>78167293
Anarcho primitivism sucks, you wouldn't be posting on /pol/ without the modern technology you have, so go move out to a no wifi zone and live in the woods if modern society is so "bad"
>>78175752
This. I want technological progress. Luddites are a bunch of retards.
>the spook of Naytshure
>>78167293
Yes. Yes it is.
>>78167293
Middle one is like Varg.
I would be an anarcho-syndicalist, but far-leftists are fucking ultra-normies.
Pretty sure I'd be gulaged for failing to socialise, despite being working class.
>>78175909
You do realize posting that is against the rules of /pol/ right? Please try to refrain from doing that. And why does posting a picture of a women showing her vagina shill anarcho primitivism at all?
>>78167293
Anarcho-whatever reeks of retarded teenager edgyness.
>>78176331
shut up faggot
>>78175501
You're talking about philosophical aspects, he's about governing a people. I'm not anarcho anything but technology can be claimed to be "unnatural" because it creates systems in which humans are not naturally fit to function.
Mass media designed to reduce pressure from office work, less freedom of movement due to mandatory advanced transportation, lack of human contact due to mandatory advanced communication, children sitting throughout their childhood in rooms with AC, stuffing their brains with technical knowledge that is designed to maintain said system, and the spread of mental disfunction we see today as a result - extreme boredom, demoralization, lack of control over one's well being, depression and anxiety, and so on.
All technological advancement slowly chips away freedoms that humans were designed to have, and the natural state humans have evolved in.
>>78167293
No theology is but it's a good stepping stone
>>78175752
It's a sacrifice worth for the greater good
>>78176301
Delusional communists are the absolute WORST. You cannot accept that communism just does not work. It will never work.
>>78167849
>Anarchy is unnatural
How?
>>78167551
Minarchism is impossible to maintain
The state will always balloon if it is not eradicated
>>78176494
>it creates systems in which humans are not naturally fit to function
I immediately take issue with the entire premise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U2pZo_RrH0
>>78176470
I'm not gay lol. You just can't prove a point for shit because you're not really smart. Also you don't even know how to capitalize words and put a period at the end of a sentence so I doubt you have an iq above 10.
>>78176736
No it isn't. Tell me what we have to gain from reverting all of the progress humanity has made so far. If we did that we probably wouldn't live to see 2200. scratch that 2150.
Anarcho-primitivism is completely retarded on the scale of an entire society, it's just something individuals can try to do. Also that's not what syndicalism is, it's more of an idealistic ancap scenario where the workers hold shares. The ones who try to force stuff are the edgy teenage "anarcho-communists"
>>78177010
>Tell me what we have to gain from reverting all of the progress humanity has made so
What this jew wrote:
>>78176494
>>78177010
>i must be smarter than you because i capitalize and put the period
shut up faggot
>>78176820
He litteraly said how in the next fucking sentence
>>78176939
without modern technology we wouldn't have all the modern degeneracy. People would care more about their community then how many facebook likes they get
>>78177760
I think that people being petty has been something that's always happened. It's true that if you give someone more tools to be petty with, they're going to use them, but I don't think we should step backwards to solve the problem.
>>78167293
>anime
>sweden
I hate both these things for the soul reason that one must be an idiot to represent themselves with these things.
I'm finding more and more that i dislike an cap for the exact same reason.
>>78177234
He says in that huge block of text that mass media reduces our freedom? And he put little reason? How does knowing what's happening in the world reduce your freedom? Makes no sense. Also knowing technological knowledge does not chip away at your freedom, kids chose to stay in their house all day. It's all their choice to become stupid and play games all day. What I just said also disproves the lack of communication argument as well so don't bring that up. And next he says extreme boredom? How do you get bored when you have a gaming console/pc to keep you stimulated all day? You can watch YouTube, play vidya, watch anime etc. . . What this Jew said is backed up with no evidence or argument at all, you guys are just trying to act edgy and cool by thinking you're reverting back to the old days, while posting on your computer in your air conditioned house.
>>78176939
I assumed that you would, that's why I wrote down some examples for you to read.
Here's another.
You'd agree that humans naturally, originally, walked the earth. Their natural state is a 360 range of direction from which they can choose one and walk in their desired speed, and usually they needed to get to places that are within walking distance.
When humans invented cars, it was undoubtedly an idea that no one could oppose -- a way to travel at very high speeds, it would save time, money, has military potential and so on.
And at first it was, people were free to buy a car if they wished to, and use it as they wished.
Over time more and more people bought cars, and businesses and the governmental systems adjusted to the new technology to maximise efficiency -- also undoubtedly a positive thing.
But what happened by now, is that all people, with no exception, are in the following two conditions:
A. They all have to use a vehicle. Society adjusted in such a way in which workers live far away from their employers, surely not a walking distance, and the same for shops, bars and so on. Nowadays to get somewhere you have to use a vehicle, if not a car then a bus.
This is a restriction on freedom.
B. They no longer have the 360 range that they evolved with. They can only choose roads, and have no ability to travel the way they always did. Not that they prefer it, they have no option.
This is a sway from the natural condition, as well as an another restriction on freedom.
You might argue that what I described is mild and trivial, but it has happened with most technologies, from mass media to communication and medicine, and it'll happen with genetic manipulation and cyber humanism - society will have to change the nature of man to be able to survive the technological system, or man will break.
You can support this, but know that you don't support a natural thing, even if it is of this earth.
>>78176787
I'm not a communist. Just pointing out how they annoy me
>>78177700
>Hierarchy is natural
>Therefore the state is natural
>>78167293
not when you have to draw a gay ass cartoon character to go with it
>>78178018
We shouldn't step "backwards" but neither should we be "progressive".
Degeneracy is increasingly becoming more and more accepted especially with the mass media outlets(Owned by Jews) shapes public opinion around the idea that: Homosexuality, Race-mixing, transgenders. bestiality, pedophilia and other sorts of vile fetish is normal and healthy.
When it is clearly isn't.
I'm a traditionalist at some points but also a futurist.
Passing the torch, and not worshipping the ashes.
Maintaining old traditions is useless if the essence behind them is gone.
>>78167676
Libertarianism is an amorphous pile of mostly wishy washy bullshit, of which anarcho capitalism is most definitely part. Fucking loon supreme Rothbard himself did most to popularize the term.
Anarcho capitalism is simply insanity, which hilariously pretends to have the most logical underpinning of all.
>>78178340
This kike gets it
Our government exists in its current form today solely to create more consumers to participate in their little charade and sign the paychecks of the political elite. They need us more than we could ever need them, they let beaners and shitskins pour into all our countries and demand we pay for their health insurance when they murder our people and spill our blood.
In 10000 BC, who your people were was well defined. You fuckin stabbed them motherfuckers in the throat with your spear if they killed one of your women. Today we take it like cucks in our multiculti progressive world. The only way to revert it at this point is agricultural or economic failure. And all current factory farms in Usa have 20 years at best left in the topsoil they continuously rape the shit out of with tilling and chemical fertilizers, you may as well be growing your food in a petri dish because the soil is turned to sand
>>78178743
You do not get it do you?
Total anarchy soon develops into hierarchy, the strong will assert themselves and punish those who oppose them, again, restricting one's actions.
Which mean that anarchy = unnatural
We should all accept our place in the natural order and perform our duties.
(Ofcourse only if that society/hierarchy obeys natural law).
>>78178340
>Their natural state is a 360 range of direction from which they can choose one and walk in their desired speed, and usually they needed to get to places that are within walking distance.
Our natural state includes a big, fatty brain with lots of neural connections and processing power that constantly strives to make neat shit to make life easier.
A car is no less natural than a beaver's dam or a spider's web. Just as they have made those things with the tools nature has provided, we make what we can with what we can.
>>78178853
I agree, but when I think anarcho primitivism I think (and I may be wrong) a unabomber type character in a cabin in the woods with no access to healthcare, utilities or much else in the way of modern innovations.
That'd be a downgrade to me, but I may be way off base.
>>78179439
Again how does it mean that the state is natural? There can be hierarchy without a goverment. This is very obvious in a group of friends. Only an autist could conclude that hierarchy=state
>>78167676
Yeah because that shit worked out real well for France.
Kant is always right and mixed government a best with strong traditions.Basically England before they fucked it up by limiting the influence and powers of the Lords and monarch and gave it all to the House of Commies.
>>78179540
You didn't address any of my points of except the second paragraph, and even for that point you didn't present a counter argument but just mentioned another thing we have naturally.
So I'll assume you have nothing to say, it was nice 'talking' to you.
>>78179540
>downgrade
Implying you cant meet your basic needs by producing them yourself
I have 10 acres in northerncalifornia and raise all my own meat, vegetables, fruit, bread, dope, beer, wine, the only thing i ever commonly buy is 22lr or 223. Your iphone7 is not worth miscegenation on a national scale due to air travel and massively powerful autocrats in control of the white house
>>78178853
It clearly isn't normal, but I do think that in the private sphere it should be tolerated by law (for what reason people want to discriminate other should be up to them of course).
Jews don't actually preach tolerance. As you say, they attack the very concept of normalcy, nothing is allowed to be defined deviant. Simply live and let live is not allowed. The only thing which can never be normal is whites wanting to be among whites of course.
This is why massively degenerate cultures like the Japs can do just fine (apart from birthrate). Degeneracy in an ethnically homogeneous society is self limiting, it takes Jews to push it to a point where it can destroy a nation.
>>78179849
I'm a big fan of industry and modern medicine and shit. I'm not saying you can't survive with what you have, but things are a lot easier and fruitful utilizing technology that people have put together in the last millennia
>>78179836
Are you on the electromagnetism spectrum?
>>78168635
Industrial society and its future by Theodore Kaczynski PhD
- using the Unabomber Manifesto as source
>>78180204
I understand that theyre easier and that it requires both less energy and time to simply buy all the things you need from a store with money earned at your job or business, i lived this way for many years as well. The advances our society has made have been immense, i.e. nukes, surgery, etc. However you must ask yourself if government is able to issue food stamps, guaranteeing people money to buy food, they are essentially centralizing the american food supply by becoming the largest client of the US food industry, and have them by the balls. The same concept is true of healthcare with obamacare.
Im posting from a computer using the internet, so obviously i enjoy the benefits of modern life as well; but at the end of the day, our needs are fulfilled just the same, yet I am not reliant on the 1. Trucking industry 2. Shipping industry 3. Globalized manufactoring 4. The centralized american food supply 5. The centralized energy supply 6. The centralized water supply or 7. The centralized sewer supply.
If the lights go off for me, its because I fucked up. If they go off for you, theres virtually nothing you can do about it except use gasoline to power generators, and refined gas doesnt grow on trees. My lifestyle is more resiliant to famine drought conflict etc
I use water and wind turbines i built myself to power my home in case you were wondering, simple physical machines that can be repaired with homemade parts
>>78180204
What mate?
:isten, I agree with you that philosophically it is natural, sure.
But the fact is that no matter what our brain can invent, we are designed to walk in a certain way - we don't do it that way anymore. We were designed to communicate a certain way - we don't communicate this way anymore. We were designed for certain childhoods we no longer experience and for certain ways of life that are deprived from us.
Those things are not arbitrary, they are what the environment in which we evolved required of us, and what the environment molded us into. it is the very essence of what it is to be human, if you believe in evolution.
So yes, those things are not natural by definition, even if they are constructed from and by natural things -- or rather the way we use those technologies is not natural, as in, not the condition we need to be in.
Lastly, not everything that is natural is healthy, for the record.
>>78180369
Did you even read it? What do you care about the personal life of authors?
And I'm not "using the Unabomber Manifesto as source", I'm talking about things he talked about. It's not a source as much as it's a book recommendation for further reading.
Also people use Himmler as a source on here frigg off
>>78181211
Pretty neat, I wish I could afford to do the desu senpai
>>78176494
>>78168635
>>78178340
>>78179836
Pretty impressive worldview I must say. I admire you.
>>78179540
I'm no anarcho-primitvism I would much more prefere National-Anarchy.
But I would must rather live in my own cabin in the woods than be exposed to the deliberately destruction of my people to what is Happening in Europe and America today.
Your modern innovations is nothing more than "satisfaction" material goods to keep you quiet and busy, while they plunder and suck the life out of you, there's so much more to a human than a single innovation, the most precious belonging you have is your folk.
>>78179673
If something is natural it will sustain itself just like the Air we breath, the water we drink and the food we eat is natural because of the fact that it is sustainable.
The idea of total-anarchy is that it will not grow into a hierarchy where the one atop decides the rules and if you break those rules you will be punishment just like a state or government that dictates the rules and laws and have a certain amount of authority.
>>78179951
Jews have been promoting these things since before the civil rights movement.
You can look into the frankfurt-school manifesto and you will see everything that we regard is degeneracy is what they pushed for into white european culture.
This is no joke and they will admit it themself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jl-OJJVAEg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycAnu1GIYGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzIRG525l6s
Japan is actually not doing good. It is because of the degeneracy they are doing this bad. They have a unmasculine male population due to anime and their large industry of porn, and female culture more centered around work and career then getting child. It is obviously affecting them and if they don't do something about it they will HAVE to import people from other places or their population will shrink.
>>78167293
>religion
>red pill
>>78179673
Government is basically the heirarchy you have with your friends after thousands of years and hundreds of generations.
Strong fuck up the weak and make rules for the weak to follow.
Strong continue to do this until you have a state that allows a certain group of the Strong to defend their territory from other groups of Strong.
Government is a natural formation. It may suck for you, but do realize by overthrowing the government all you are doing is making room for another one.
>>78181251
Yes, I have read it and indeed he does raise a lot of very valid points but you can't completely disregard the mindset of an author. Theodore Kaczynski is deeply Disturbed and that does have significant bearing on both his arguments and conclusions. Also Heinrich Himmler was a chicken farmer why would anyone use him as a source for anything?
>>78167293
Implying anarcho-authoritarian-zionist-lgbt-fyrryfaggot-national-communism is not the real red pill.
>>78168635
At least you freely admit that "degenerate" is just code word for "look at all the fun shit we can do now that we don't have to plow a field 16 hours a day to survive!"
>>78181678
Exactly. Do you think the fact that independent nations without any contact with each other throughout history all spawned governments due to some conspiracy? Government whether you label it private or public is an inevitability of human society. If you burn down one another that could be much worse comes in and takes its place.
>>78181338
The resources are all there, my total cost for complete self sufficency was around 1000 dollars over 2 years. Most of that cost being animals, fruit trees and seeds. I bought raw land and a used mill to process 4 acres of lumber or so to build my house and insulated it with sheep pelts. I use permaculture food forestry to feed myself, my animals (mostly pork goat and poultry) and my fruit trees. I have Perch (fish) 6 months out of the year using a 10000 gallon 5 pond system i dug myself and replenish with snowmelt runoff each year. Wasnt hard desu my total cost was approx 25000 dollars. I saved up a bit extra to pay for my property taxes for a couple years and make my money for ammo emergencies and property tax by selling herbal salves teas breads and pastas at a local farmers market because you dont need a commercial kitchen. Google the cottage food act in your state
>>78168635
Limiting Communication and exploration.
You're a fuckin faggot dude. crawl into your cave and get fucked by the bear inside. remember your candle to learn from your shadow on the wall.
>>78181352
My country moving was moving towards female education and allowing them independent (economic) power in high positions long before Jews became relevant. Europeans invented classical liberalism before Jews became relevant in political philosophy as well.
Jews might accelerate degeneracy, but tolerance and progressiveness is our own invention. Lets not throw the baby out with the kikes.
A shrinking population is not a problem in the near term. By the time it does become relevant we need to have artificial wombs and robot nannies, problem solved.
Anarchism is gay and for retarded faggots
>>78182300
Yeah dude god forbid we limit communication and transportation its not like were having terrorist attackers from syria 12000 miles away or anything getting here easier than riding a bus
>>78181716
That can be said about a whole lot of great writers. I honestly don't care as long as he is logically consistent and has strong arguments. I think he does, and the fact that he is deeply disturbed is not bothering me seeing how he writes about what deeply disturbs society.
>>78181760
Oh no, "degenerate" is just code word for "look at all the distracting shit we have to indulge in when we live in an unnatural state of being" and for "look how deep we can ascend because of an abusive system"
>>78182300
Technology is not inherently bad, but it needs to be adjusted to people and not the opposite. Also nice counter argument retard.
>>78167293
>anarchy
>primitive
>isms
kek
>>78182156
How bad was the permit process for building your house? Around here in Southwest Florida it's pretty expensive
>>78181352
>The idea of total-anarchy is that it will not grow into a hierarchy where the one atop decides the rules and if you break those rules you will be punishment just like a state or government that dictates the rules and laws and have a certain amount of authority.
Humanity started without goverments and it lasted way longer. Anarchy is sustainable,another matter is if it is efficient
>>78181678
>Government is basically the heirarchy you have with your friends after thousands of years and hundreds of generations.
No
> Strong fuck up the weak and make rules for the weak to follow.
No.
> Strong continue to do this until you have a state that allows a certain group of the Strong to defend their territory from other groups of Strong.
You are just making this up arent you?
> Government is a natural formation.
No its a social contruct,and I am not against it.
>>78181885
Most societies never created a goverment/state in the western way.
>>78182354
>tolerance and progressiveness
Is fine is a cohesive white society with traditional values. Of course "progress" is going to occur as time goes by as otherwise we would be as bad as fucking Muslims for all their conservatism.
The difference is when natural evolution of society is hijacked and corrupted by kikes who force the "correct" future outcome far before its time in an attempt to destroy nations and feed on its corpse before moving on to another one.
Progress is fine when its tempered with conservatism and not allowed to run rampant for the sake of living in a hypothetical future.
For the same reason I see post-scarcity, agnosticism, and universal income as an inevitability I realise that these things are not ready for us now and will only destabilize things further and ruin it for everyone if jammed into the CURRENT YEAR before its appropriate.
>>78182300
Also I can't go crawl inside a cave because you people will need it for some bullshit power plant. I said it's too late, didn't I? There is no escape but an apocalypse, basically
>>78181678
>>78181885
You're both making a blatantly incorrect assumption about what constitutes a state within the libertarian philosophy.
Social organization and hierarchies can and obviously, per >>78181885 , will still exist in an anarcho-capitalist society. Ancaps only gripe is with the involuntary nature of current social structures.
>>78182446
You're on the right track, better ban guns while we're at it so those evil terrorists can't shoot anybody.
>>78182500
Yes, that's exactly what I said. "Degenerate" is just the pet-phrase of luddites who's jimmies are rustled because people have free time.
If we were living in the Neolithic period you'd be bitching about the evils of agriculture and how humans are meant to be hunter-gatherers.
>>78182687
>humanity started without governments
You mean the neanderthals living in caves?
The moment agriculture was invented government shortly followed to keep order as population increased due to more plentiful food.
>Anarchy is sustainable
Joe and his friends form a gang, his gang decides to fuck up the villagers of his town for resources. The villagers of his town, while not outnumbered, don't individually want to fight Joe's gang due to the fact that unlike Joe, they are not trained for combat as they are farmers and other providers.
Joe becomes the defacto warlord of his town. In a few generations time, people don't just fear, but respect his family's rule as tradition has given it legitimacy.
>>78182925
So you're saying humans are inherently not greedy/self-interested?
If you say they are, then you are admitting the Strong will enrich themselves with the labor of the Weak, as that is in the Strong's best interest.
You are denying human nature. Go outside for once.
Some of these arguments are great but the fact remains that we can't significantly change our society i.e. going backwards technologically without massive societal upheaval and turmoil. And that never happens without large-scale death.
I just don't see any feasible way to go backwards knowing that a lot of people wouldn't want to and/or couldn't survive even if we did there would be a lot of resistance a lot of starvation and a lot of violence
>>78167551
This
>2016
>Not being an ancom out of pure self-interest rather than ideological motivations.
You know it's the way with the most to offer.
>>78182620
Well in california its basically a fucking nightmare if youre trying to do things the normal way, so you need to get creative to circumvent their draconian libshit thinking. If your structure is 10 by 10 or smaller you dont need a permit, as such, i basically built a 3 story building plus attic that is 10ft wide and 10 ft long and roughly 35 feet tall. The first floor has an icebox, little living room and dining area, second floor is my bathroom which uses a regular flush toilet that take the feces and puts it into a worm composting system that uses 10s of thousands of worms to eat through all mine and my wifes shit and turns it into 100% sterile worm shit i sell for 5 dollars a pound. The third floor is my bedroom and i use the attic as a solar oven with glass panes and mirrors reflecting heat into a small oven to bake breads with year round to circumvent firewood for basic baking. My kitchen and workspaces for making crafts to sell, butchery, food storage, etc are all done in 9x9 separate structures i insulate with cob which is basically just clay and straw that stay a balmy 60 degrees inside when its 105 out in the summer
>>78182354
Classical liberalism is an entirely different thing than it's modern counterpart liberals and progressives.
Yes Jews became relevant in political phlosophy aka Marxism and it's quite easy to see what is has done to our society.
>>>78182500
>artificial wombs and robot nannies
That would destroy the family unit and instead of faggots and dykes to have children and promote more material wealth, plus remove the idea of a man and a woman procreating to get a child is the natural way.
females being "independent" was a scam by the feminist movement created by jews so corporations could 2 slaves for 1.
Wages in countries as the USA dropped because of corporations and big business could now hire females for lower pay.
>>78182687
If it's not efficient that it's clearly not sustainable and probably also the indication why civilization based on hierarchy such as Mesopotamian, Egypt, Indus valley, became far more advanced and sufficient.
>>78167293
why are scandis so afraid of the free market? I just imagine scandis being brainwashed into thinking that profit is EVIL.
>>78183531
>And that never happens without large-scale death.
the end justifies the means
>>78183441
I would like to add that in a hunter society, where everyone is trained in combat from hunting, everyone can hold their own and heirarchies are a lot less permanent and great.
However, when you have an agricultural society with specialists that work the land and artisans/engineers that create technology, most people are too preoccupied to have the training to defend themselves and their fellow countrymen, and thus lose the ability to not be put in a heirarchy by a military force.
>>78183704
Because the free market is just a nice way phrasing "I want the bourgeoisie to cuck me".
>>78183318
>better ban guns
Banning guns removes our ability to defend ourselves from chimpouts. Banning air travel from the middle east and africa for non whites lessens illegal immigration and White genocide. Youre a moron if you really think the planes should keep comin loaded with beaners and niggers to live in our cities drain our infrastructure and be prioritized by our cuckold fetishist government over us white americans.
What is this commie crap?
Get it off my computer screen!
>>78183318
That's not what you said, you describe it as if it is something humans always wanted to do but didn't have the time due to other responsibilities - I claim it's acts of a desperate attempt to fill the holes of boredom and demoralization left by modern society, and not a matter of choice at all.
And if agriculture would have fundamentally changed human society to an extent in which all of it's subjects would have been forced to act unnaturally, I would.
Maintaining a field and a barn around your hut doesn't do it, the industrial revolution did it and computing multiplied it.
>>78183882
A regulated market eventually becomes "I want the bourgeoisie to cuck me with the support of my country."
Would you rather be cucked by 1 entity or 2?
>>78183970
>providing for yourself
>communism
>>78183704
Seeing as how fucked your country is I would also be afraid of the "free" market too. Corporations and Jews literally run your country as a company and money making machine.
>>78183882
Literally this.
>>78183704
the free market is the tool of the globalist elites.
>>78184021
Neither.
No bourgeoisie, no state either.
>>78183441
>You mean the neanderthals living in caves?
No. From sapiens to agricultural societies,didnt have a state
>The moment agriculture was invented government shortly followed to keep order as population increased due to more plentiful food
False.
> Joe and his friends form a gang, his gang decides to fuck up the villagers of his town for resources. The villagers of his town, while not outnumbered, don't individually want to fight Joe's gang due to the fact that unlike Joe, they are not trained for combat as they are farmers and other providers.
Joe becomes the defacto warlord of his town. In a few generations time, people don't just fear, but respect his family's rule as tradition has given it legitimacy.
A strawman. With no hard evidenc e backing it up. If you just go to the earliest legal codes you can see,that most of the laws are pretty consensual,and are not impositions of warlords.
> So you're saying humans are inherently not greedy/self-interested?
When did I say this?
>If you say they are, then you are admitting the Strong will enrich themselves with the labor of the Weak, as that is in the Strong's best interest.
Again,your autistic logic are not facts. Most laws weren't just warlords imposing them. Most primitive laws are pretty consensual,like killing is wrong,and stealing is bad.
>You are denying human nature. Go outside for once.
I am not the one mading up autistic stories to justifying a point.
>>78167551
Never thought I'd say this, but
>FPBP
>>78183658
>If it's not efficient that it's clearly not sustainable
No. Hunting gathering was more sustainable than a consumerist society,and the latter is way more efficient
> indication why civilization based on hierarchy such as Mesopotamian, Egypt, Indus valley, became far more advanced and sufficient.
When did I say otherwise?
>>78184195
How do you achieve monetary equality without redistributing wealth?
And how do you redistribute wealth without organization and control?
You might theoretically be able to have one of those, but not both at the same time.
>>78184195
Anarcho Socialism isn't real. Literal contradiction in terms.
>>78183704
They, like the rest of Europe, were just the first to be infected by the Natsoc jew once it was forced into hiding after WWII.
>>78183948
You're the single most retarded faggot on /pol/ (quite the achievement by the way) if you think a libertarian supports any of the programs or laws that actually make illegal immigration viable for the immigrants. But you probably know that, and you're so afraid of immigration because you know your labor will never be worth more than someone fresh off the boat who can't even speak the local language, and without a social welfare net, you and lazy fucks like you will all starve in a gutter.
>>78184003
You just keep rephrasing exactly what I'm saying in prettier words to make it sound like a good thing.
>>78184495
With a revolution to abolish the state as well as private property with it. As private property is a construct of the state.
It's not about taking money and giving it equally to everyone. It's about destroying the state that enforces the property of the bourgeoisie, thus allowing the workers to manage their own affairs as well as everyone else to manage their own.
>>78184542
Oh yeah dude im a retarded faggot who is scared of immigrants
AHAHAHAHA this guy defending mohammed and juan coming to our country to get on our welfare initally intended for WHITE americans. I aint scared of shit fuckboy send your beaners and niggers to my doorstep and ill dump some pmags it would quite literally make my day.
>>78167293
I never really understood anarcho capitalism
Could an ANCAP goy please clear my doubts for me?
Alright so if large scale corporations will supposedly be a thing of the past and if small businesses are left to freely compete amongst themselves as they please, wouldn't that create an atmosphere where small businesses can grow further and expand by a large margin? What's to say that these small businesses can't grow into large corporations? Wouldn't that take it back to square one?
Sorry if its a stupid question, its just bothered me ever since I came across the concept of Anarcho capitalism
>>78179836
all I hear is jewjewjewjew, just as the post you're defaming - another addition to discourse- it appears your only intent is to immediately shit on what another has to offer. You're a rat for needing people to follow your specific plan of discussion and moreso for attempting to control when this end of discussion is. get fucked, I already said it once.
>didn't address any
>except, then acknowledges
>person says
>I jewsume you have nothing to say and openly discredit your equally free opinion
why? why do you insist on being this type of asshole?
>>78184542
I'm really not, what we said is different. You said "fun things" and "can do", those are the central points I disagree on. Hedonism is not the same as fun, and the time to do something is not the same as the need to do it out of psychological deficiencies.
But I know you'll just say >lmao you rephrased me again, so fuck off
>>78184517
Okay.
How is that?
>>78184825
>get on our welfare
>libertarian
yep, completely goddamned retarded.
>>78184828
>Alright so if large scale corporations will supposedly be a thing of the past and if small businesses are left to freely compete amongst themselves as they please, wouldn't that create an atmosphere where small businesses can grow further and expand by a large margin? What's to say that these small businesses can't grow into large corporations? Wouldn't that take it back to square one?
Ancaps arent oppose to big bussines
>>78183615
That takes real commitment. Although I think I might have to go with an existing house. I used to have a house and a little land being forced into this little apartment feels like living in a hotel room
>>78167293
>ankh
hipster faggot
WE
>>78184042
Stealing from people more successful than you? And forcing people who make an extra 2$ more than you to fix societal problems that you yourself helped create... isn't self reliance.
>>78184963
Show me where i said i am a libertarian
And show me where i said i support welfare
It already exists dumbass, and nonwhites are already on snap and vouchers and osamacare.
>>78184898
your entire argument is just painting things people do because we no longer need to spend our every waking moment struggling to feed ourselves in a negative light.
>>78184223
>No. From sapiens to agricultural societies,didnt have a state
False, all early agricultural societies I can think of were ruled by an elite. For most of them, that elite drew legitimacy from religion, but they still held authority over their farmer counterparts.
>A strawman. With no hard evidenc e backing it up. If you just go to the earliest legal codes you can see,that most of the laws are pretty consensual,and are not impositions of warlords.
False again. Most laws are either passed by a theocracy or a monarchy. Both of which are just warlords with a bit more dignity.
>When did I say this?
When you said that humans can stay without a hierarchy.
>I am not the one mading up autistic stories to justifying a point.
They're called hypothetical stories. You're supposed to point out where I went wrong or realize the fact that your ideas can't stop that story from happening.
You're the one saying a stateless existence can happen with any success in modern times.
>>78184844
I gave basis to my opinion, he didn't address my arguments with counter arguments, so it's not really a discussion, just throwing claims at each other. It's pretty basic.
>>78185153
I'm a libertarian you inbred hillibilly
>>78184965
>Ancaps arent oppose to big bussines
Then what's their end game?
If big businesses turn into monopolies, won't it be very difficult for the small businesses to compete?
I'd like to know, please explain
Thanks
>>78176787
As anti communist as I am I hate the 'it doesn't work in practice' argument. Same goes for socialism as a whole. It's not about whether it works or not, it's the fact that it's destructive, tyrannical and immoral.
>>78185327
>immoral
Top spook.
>>78184793
And what happens when the workers eventually have different outcomes?
You'll soon find yourself with people having more money than others, and most likely use that money to make more money, and gain control, etc.
The state also enforces the property of the proletariat. How are you going to stop burglary?
Or does burglary not exist anymore?
An-prims are a bunch of delusional cucks who think hunter-gatherer societies are a bunch of saints living in a Garden of Eden.
Based Unabomber blew them the fuck out:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ted-kaczynski-the-truth-about-primitive-life-a-critique-of-anarchoprimitivism
>>78185279
Ancaps are religious. The invisible hand is omnibenevolent.
why has nobody ever been able to explain anarcho-syndaclism to me?
how can you maintain a collective without forcing your will on others
you either
1) provide for those who do not provide and fall to leeches
2) do not provide for those who do not provide and are therefore not anarchy
>>78185268
So youre simultaneously cool with letting hundreds of millions of shitskins move into our country, and with them getting on welfare and sitting on their fat nigger asses? They want to be on welfare instead of working at Panera bread thats why theyre already on welfare. The solution is to keep them from coming here and smelling up our country. If you really think multiculturalism is a good thing for america i implore you to watch the crime blotter in los angeles, the most diverse city in the USA, for just one afternoon and see how many rapes murders and shootings happen vs my 99.9% white 1200 population mountain town
>>78185501
Because there's no money either
>The state also enforces the property of the proletariat. How are you going to stop burglary?
With guns, and community militias.
>>78185228
>all early agricultural societies I can think of were ruled by an elite.
That is not a state m8.
> Most laws are either passed by a theocracy or a monarchy. Both of which are just warlords with a bit more dignity.
No. Most laws are based upon tradition not imposition. Monarchies or theocracies later legilated new rules. And their origin doesnt have to be through imposition. Monarchs can be crown by some kind of consensus.
> When you said that humans can stay without a hierarchy.
Never said this. Just said that hierarchy=state. There are stateless hierarchies.
> They're called hypothetical stories.
No evidence. I cant prove your mental masturbation to be right,just debate baseless abstractions.
> existence can happen with any success in modern times.
When did I say this?
>>78185475
>Spook
Congrats, you can parrot one shit buzzword. What a unique, interesting opinion. I too have been on reddit once.
>>78184442
Hunter-gatherers had superior warriors but inferior numbers due to low population. Which would mean that hunters gathers would only be able to sustain themself in a low populated "community" or anarchistic societies.
Hunter gathers would eventually lose wars due to being heavily outnumbered due to their low population and because of this not being able to sustain them self compared to their farming counterpart.
It was because of this that hunter gathers eventually resorted to farming as the only option to survive and sustain themself which why they had to resort to hierarchy eventually aswell because that always develops in a society.
It was thanks to farming that we got the population boom in areas as the Nile and Levant and modern day Iran(Indo) that the first early civilization sprung, if people had remained hunter-gathers we would not be sitting here chatting on 4chan.
I am not for a consumerist or materialistic society but I am neither for an "uncivilized" society.
>>78185852
>>78185852
>What a unique
Me too, thanks.
>>78185218
Did you consider that the struggle to survive might be something we psychologically need?
And in any case, my argument is not that the deficiencies exist because we don't struggle to obtain food.
It's because society has been shaped in a way that doesn't require us to almost ever struggle for a goal we ourselves autonomically came up with, thus leaving us with a lack of control over our own lives.
Many people use this need for fulfillment in their academic life(in which they still study a topics picked by others) and career(in which they are still listening to their superiors) or businesses(in which they still comply with mountains of red tape and regulations).
Some people survive it, some don't - most need a constant psychological relief to survive, and that is the origin of the deficiencies that lead to hedonism and so on.
>>78185279
>Then what's their end game?
Capitalism with no goverment
> If big businesses turn into monopolies, won't it be very difficult for the small businesses to compete?
Yes. Some markets,the more capitalized ones, tend to have less competition. Some markets tend to be easier to access than others ,for example it is easier to open a bussiness in the food sector than the aerospace one.
>>78185279
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdLBzfFGFQU
You have no idea how monopolies function.
>>78185631
In national syndicalist Falangist spain they had a middle class of bureaucrats that oversaw if people were leeches or not and appropriated their government assistance accordingly. If youre a loyal steel mill worker for 35 years and your wife gets both her legs smashed in a car crash which will cost you more than you could afford, the govt would help you out. If youre laqueesha trying to claim disability so you can smoke crack all day these bureaucrats would deny your request
>>78182446
You are so utterly disconnected from ALL of that it pains me to see you could attempt to fathom it. You are, if not a proxy, demographically unable to visit a fraction of your homeland you sloth! The idea of murikah is why go outside, why doesn't outside have xbox, god! what's this natural air stuff it smells like cowshit.
You have no backbone to get off your ass and do anything because you don't know how, no one's telling you hod to do it and no one's paying you to think about it. You are a disgusting mind-melted bag of organs, go take your shit and be happy there are game of thrones episodes you hadn't watched yet, G.
Hurr durr the post, demz terrorists(shits pants). Outside? no that's out there!!
>>78185279
Free markets are actually much more resistant to monopolization than the shills would have you think. If anything, most of the markets that have problems with monopoly-like conditions got that way because of government subsidies to the biggest corporations.
>>78185659
No, you retarded mong because I don't support the welfare state in the first place, because I'm a goddamned libertarian. Let me go all the way back and highlight this phrase for you again
>You're the single most retarded faggot on /pol/ (quite the achievement by the way) if you think a libertarian supports any of the programs or laws that actually make illegal immigration viable for the immigrants
There won't be "hundreds of millions of shitskins" flooding a libertarian society because there will be nothing to leech off of. Instead, you'd only get a scant handful, any one of which will be as much benefit to the nation as three of your lazy, fat, cousin-fucking ilk.
>>78185961
>It was because of this that hunter gathers eventually resorted to farming as the only option to survive and sustain themself which why they had to resort to hierarchy eventually aswell because that always develops in a society.
Not entirely true.
> It was thanks to farming that we got the population boom in areas as the Nile and Levant and modern day Iran(Indo) that the first early civilization sprung, if people had remained hunter-gathers we would not be sitting here chatting on 4chan.
True. Dont know how your post proves anything. Our current system would collapse without technological advancements,I dont see that as a more sustainable system
>>78185279
tbqh the mega corporations you see today can only exist because they lobby governments to give them bullshit legal protection/anti-competition laws/straight up bailouts if they still manage to fuck up
>>78184195
who are the other two guys apart from Marx?
>>78185789
>community militias
So you'll have militias with power? How are you going to guarantee they don't abuse their power?
Will everyone fit for combat be forced to serve?
Honestly, it sounds like these community militias will be the new defacto governments.
>>78185800
>That is not a state m8.
Theocracies are governments.
>No. Most laws are based upon tradition not imposition. Monarchies or theocracies later legilated new rules. And their origin doesnt have to be through imposition. Monarchs can be crown by some kind of consensus.
Tradition literally means it is based on precedent. Somehow they had to set that precedent. how did they not set that precedent without authority?
>Never said this. Just said that hierarchy=state. There are stateless hierarchies.
This is true, however, how do you guarantee that your non-state hierarchy does not become powerful enough to become a state hierarchy? It's really just a matter of scale.
>When did I say this?
>>78182687
>Anarchy is sustainable
Unless you're saying we need to go back in time to establish our anarchist utopia.
>>78186765
Max "Ghostbuster" Stirner and Murray "Sell your Children for Profit" Rothbard
>>78186765
The man who is a drawing is Max Stirner. He was essentially the 6th ranger of a group of philosophers (of which Marx was a part of) called the young Hegelians.
The really stereotypically Jewish looking fellow is Murray Rothbard who essentially invented Anarcho-Capitalism.
>>78186390
Or because of tariffs on foreign competition.
Or because they're literally *MANDATED* to be monopolies, such as most utility companies in the U.S.
>>78182500
Your smug stupid ass again?
Listen faggot, your consistent double speak should be visible to anyone with a half-retard brain.
Hurr - communication limits your mental growth
Durr - transportation restricts your freedoms
Honestly sheckleshill, Boss rat, or whatever your Kippah compadres like to fondle you to, your attempt at taking the intellectual higher ground must be crack fueled for anyone to get past them being laughable at best. Stop shitting in your hand, stop calling it soap.
>>78167293
Anarchy can never work because of human nature, and a minarchy will always turn back into a corrupt government. Fascism and monarchy are the real red pills.
>>78186134
Oh I see
>>78186137
>You have no idea how monopolies function.
I know, which is why I wished to know more
Thanks for linking the video, I'll watch it now
>>78186390
>>78186481
I see, so if suppose we could isolate capitalism from governmental influence, it would create an atmosphere which could prevent large businesses from turning into mega corporations?
Seems understandable enough, I suppose
Thanks
>>78182500
If you were going to have something relavent to say like
>Technology is not inherently bad, but it needs to be adjusted to people and not the opposite
you should have fucking said so from the beginning, not relying on the only pertinent thought you've had to be your attempt at saving face.
ash/10
>>78187151
>people will always create a corrupt government, so just make a corrupt government with even more power
I think you just went full retard.
>>78186937
>So you'll have militias with power? How are you going to guarantee they don't abuse their power?
No, being a militiaman wouldn't be a fulltime job like being a cop. It would be more of a kind of voluntary community service.
>Will everyone fit for combat be forced to serve?
Anyone who wants to could serve.
>Honestly, it sounds like these community militias will be the new defacto governments.
Not at all, it's just local people (all of which have guns anyway) volunteering to co-operate to keep their community safe out of mutual self-interest.
They don't have any special power that no one else has, they're basically neighbourhood watch with guns.
My product is inferior to other businesses. Instead of fixing my failing business... I'll blame hundreds of other companies of having a monopoly over mine. Anarcho-I_eat_lead_paintism
Our lives have become meaningless and unfulfilled. Instead of making myself into a man... I'll be into Anarcho-DrunkAndSmokingCrackism
I'm a woman who needs the government to take care of me and my twelve kids. I'll force everyone else to pay absurd amounts of money to pay for social programs and my boyfriend's drugs. Anarcho-WhereIsMyWelfareCheckism
>>78183615
Sounds nice
>>78178238
>soul
>SOUL
>SOUL REASON
SOUL
O
U
L
>>78186937
>Theocracies are governments.
Theocracies are,but priests could hold soft power,instead of hard one,so the idea of state is not a given.
> Tradition literally means it is based on precedent.
And?
>Somehow they had to set that precedent. how did they not set that precedent without authority?
Consensus.
>This is true, however, how do you guarantee that your non-state hierarchy does not become powerful enough to become a state hierarchy?
I am not an anarchist.
> Anarchy is sustainable
Sustainable=/=success
>>78186424
>Our current system would collapse without technological advancements
No Humans have actually increasingly become weaker thanks to technological advancements.
Humans really do not need that. If you took a poll of any people you would they want homes, medicine, jobs schools.
Technologies advancement have only weakened us, for the past centuries. Now you can literally see in every new generations.
(If you do take out spiritual needs).
The real thing that is going to collapse our current system is the mass migration, low birthrates, unemployment, the economy(that will be crashed by the fucking globalists) etc.
And I can't wait for it to happen. The sooner the better.
>>78187148
I demonstrated how advanced transportation ultimately restrict your freedom - if you don't want to read my posts don't reply or debunk my jewish doublespeak
>>78187432
I never said that technology is inherently bad, I said the way we construct society around it is bad. I said this in my second post.
>>78187441
Nothing wrong with monarchy. Monarchy gave us everything we have. Monarchy allowed us to give into our innate imperialistic nature. Times started going to shit after we got rid of monarchy.
No, anarchism is a fucking joke.
>>78188068
Anarchism is the only non-joke form of society (also a joke tbqh).
>>78187771
No. The system would collapse without tech advancements due to the exponential increase of population due the large consumer base that is needed to sustain the system. Overpopulation is a bigger issue for sustainability than low birth rates.
>>78187076
>>78187012
Thanks, on that notice, what's the meme about Stirner and ghosts?
>>78186297
Youre fucking retarded man if you read my id youd know i live in the country
>>78187241
No problem. If you're interested in the moral facet of capitalistic/free market systems vs. more government controlled systems, this is a good video that distinguishes the thinking involved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHPI1emZFVg
>>78167293
any thing anarcho will never be the red pill but the retard pill
>>78188408
>what's the meme about Stirner and ghosts?
Stirner calls fixed ideas spooks.
Spooks=ghosts.
>>78183086
So in the end, all your speculation and all your theories just boil down to nihilism?
So what was the demand for this "argument" I never agreed to, and the pride to denounce other posters? Your demands for a discussion you have yet to start, and now it's meaningless?
ARE YOU 12? Am I talking to a summerfag?
>>78188376
I'd actually have to agree with this.
Less people is more sustainable than more people.
Honestly, I think the way things are going right now, we're going to have a war to thin the herd so our tech advancement can keep pace.
>>78187741
>Consensus
But not everyone agrees, and what happens to them?
Eventually you have a hierarchy of people who agree with majority opinion and outcasts.
>Theocracies are,but priests could hold soft power,instead of hard one,so the idea of state is not a given.
Pretty sure if you're leading the majority of a population, you're not holding just "soft" power.
>>78186390
Youre too illiterate to realize weve been in agreement this whole time, your point is true. I am not even talking about hypothetical society, im talking about current american society under Obama. Were 60% white and falling fast with senseless migration politics. But go ahead and keep inviting Jamal amd Mohammed to come and fuck you and your kids and your dog
>>78188408
A spook is a concept that motivates people to act against their own self interests, for the sake and well being of that concept, which does not actually exist.
He compared it to ghosts haunting your mind, hence spooks.
>>78167293
Only on an individual level, society wise it obviously wouldn't work since another nation would stroll in and enslave you and take your land like the Romans.
>>78188903
>But not everyone agrees, and what happens to them?
>Eventually you have a hierarchy of people who agree with majority opinion and outcasts.
Yes. Never denied this
> Pretty sure if you're leading the majority of a population, you're not holding just "soft" power
If people are very faithful,people could be ruled just by soft power.
>>78188408
A spook is a concept that you basically put above yourself for imaginary reasons. Rather than you running your ideas your ideas run you.
>>78167551
This. Holy shit, this.
>>78167293
Anarcho capitalists are onto something, insofar as government regulations and taxation are acidic to small biz whom should be the backbone of economy, although regulations, certain game rules are still needed, otherwise the game would fast turn into chaos. Primitives can always return to their nearest cave or even better just hang themselves, not to be a cancer on Earth.
>>78189356
Really? Are the French really going to invade and enslave us all if the UK were to become anarchist?
>>78188698
First of all, the cave comment was just a response to you calling me a faggot and telling me to crawl back into my cave with a candle.
Second, it doesn't boil down to nihilism at all.
The fact that every last cave will be used for the expansion of the technological system is not a nihilistic notion, nor the notion that only a war will stop the technological advancement. What else could stop it?
It's not a nihilistic thought of "it is meaningless by it's nature", but a demoralized thought of "it's too late" - the very same words that ended my first post ITT.
>>78189784
Yes.
Then the British militias fire one shot and the French surrender.
>>78167293
>>78190378
Always suspected ants were ancaps.
>>78167293
The state is needed to keep up the military, keep the border heavily secured and to limit immigration.
Why the fuck do libertarians fight for no borders? You are literally giving yourselves a bad name.
>>78189784
Currently it's more likely that non-anarchist societies based in the UK would invade and "enslave" the anarchist ones and would go back to an orderly way of life.
Perhaps an international peace keeping force would intervene to stop the (literally inevitable) civil wars and human rights abuses that would spring up.
>>78190466
Because I don't think immigrants are the source of all (or any) of my problems.
>>78190458
kek
>>78183048
And they ended up getting conquered by societies with governments, and now they have governments of their own.
>>78185240
Yes it's basic, this is not speech and debate. The idea is not to be right and put everyone in their place. This is a ball of information to be of determined importance by each and every individual brain. This isn't reddit or a sponsored vidya, no one gets a score. On the contrary, playing all sides just to tell someone they are wrong about some arbitrary details of some liquid theories is gay, totally gay. Take your honeypot back to honeyhovel where honeymoon bear honeyslathers your honeyhole in....... yes, honey and Timothy Treadwells you during an afternoon sticky situation.
Peace
>>78191411
Man, what the fuck are you even talking about.
I'm not trying to be right, I presented an argument, he addressed only the first line of my post, I expended in this argument, he didn't even respond to it, and then I gave up.
What, are you triggered that I'm not being nice to someone on /pol/?
Fuck off with your bullshit
>>78190538
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista_(Mexico)
Also crime statistics don't lie. More rapefugees mean more rapes to put it bluntly. Everyone visits America and look at what a powder keg it is. France has a high muslim population then these idiots act surprised when over 200 people are killed over a mohammed cartoon.
>>78168635
The kike is right, true redpill books by the way
