Without religious morality, what's the incentive of living a life of good conduct? I mean if you can get away with everything that benefits you regardless morality, what's the point of exclusively following the 'right' spectrum?
>>78119361
>>78119361
You could argue that by helping others you help them improve their lives which helps to improve society which directly benefits you
I live in a weird place where helping others is the norm, atheist or no. It just feels kinda warm and fuzzy inside knowing that you helped someone out and seeing a stranger smile at you just feels good.
Why do i need a reward just for living? You a commie OP?
Well, I love Christianity as a great centerpiece of western culture and values, and the bible as a wonderful and fascinating piece of history and literature.
What I believe is literally true of the natural world and what I think would be nice or ideal are two completely different things.
>>78119361
>Without religious morality, what's the incentive of living a life of good conduct?
To live a life of good moral conduct.
Why do you need to be treated like a child and be coaxed into good behavior at the threat of a switch?
>>78119406
>Lists Einstien as an atheist when he was a theist.
>>78119361
Why do you need a reward for not being a cunt?
If we're all cunts we'd end up like australia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
>>78119361
The consequences of believing or not believing something are not too important, if you think there it's true then you're forced to believe it. If I show you evidence that I'm 6"2 tall and then offer you a million bucks for believing I'm a midget no matter how hard you try you won't be able to make yourself believe it because you already know the truth.
>>78119616
Einstien was if anything a pantheist you cuck he didn't subscribe to any religion and he fucking hated it when people tried to "claim" him as being in their group.
>>78119704
I offered your mum 6 shekels for her to believe that I'm godly in bed and she actually did it, the absolute madwoman
>>78119361
>can get away with anything
Oh, you mean like being able to repent for literally anything you do?
It's all the same, you live by morality because it's good, not because something happens after you die.
>>78119704
>implying you aren't a manlet
>>78119361
Living a life of good conduct is for cucks, tbqhwy familia.
>>78119873
I have strong mizrahi russian genes, I'm a big hairy monkey.
utilitarianism such as not going to jail and having a good reputation
If you're doing it for the reward then you're doing it wrong.
>>78119786
Einstein openly professed that he knew there was a god of sorts.
And I don't mean that dice quote, like he literally said, all things considered god probably exists but we'll never come close to him.
Said this after hubble proved him wrong his theory of an eternal universe.
>>78119983
What if you can get away without repercussion doing an immoral act that can make your life better?
The White Light, or First Bardo energy, may be interpreted as God the Creator. The Spreader of the Seed. The Power which makes all shapes visible. Seed of all that is. Sovereign Power. The All-Powerful. The Central Sun. The One Truth. The Source of all Organic Life. The Divine Mother. The Female Creative Principle. Mother of the Space of Heaven. Radiant Father-Mother. Magnificent revelations, both spiritual and philosophic, can occur at this point making the highest union of experience and intellect. But, because of bad karma (usually religious beliefs of a monotheistic or punitive nature), the glorious light of the seed wisdom it can produce awe and terror. The person will wish to flee and will beget a fondness for the dull white light symbolizing stupidity.
Persons from a Judaeo-Christian background conceive of an enormous gulf between divinity (which is "up there") and the self ("down here"). Christian mystics' claims to unity with divine radiance has always posed problems for theologians who are committed to the cosmological subject-object distinction. Most Westerners, therefore, find it difficult to attain unity with the source-light.
>>78119361
See this is what christfags project onto atheists because of the fedoralords hijacking the word.
For them there is literally no point to being good because everyone hates them anyway for being autists.
>>78120167
>drivel
Humans evolved from plants in the garden of eden.
>>78120101
Yes but his concept of god wasn't something along the lines of omnipotent omniscient omnibenevolent being, he used god to mean something like "laws of physics" like many other physicists he believed that the laws of physics are inherently symmetrical and beautiful and that it's not by accident.
>>78119361
Being religious doesn't mean you have to give up good ethics. Most intellectuals can see the point of following an objectively consistent moral philosophy, it's because of it's potential in positive social longevity for our planet. Nothing's is stopping you from not doing the right thing if that's what you're asking.
>>78120329
Thank you, someone actually understands Einstein, any Christian that uses the appeal to authority "Einstein believed in God" is a massive retard who didn't understand Einstein. He was basically Agnostic.
>>78120268
If the undifferentiated light of the First Bardo or of the Source Energy is lost, luminous waves of differentiated forms can flood through the consciousness. The person's mind begins to identify these figures, that is, to label them and experience revelations about the life process. [Lama Govinda tells us that Qek represents "... the mysterious activity of spiritual forces, which work removed from the senses, invisible and imperceptible, with the aim of guiding the individual (or, more properly: all living beings) towards the maturity of knowledge and liberation. The yellow light of an (inner) sun invisible to human eyes... (in which the unfathomable space of the universe seems to open itself) for the serene mystic green of Qek... On the elementary plane this all-pervading power corresponds to the element of air - the principle of movement and extension, of life and breath (prana)."
>>78119361
god you're fucking stupid
>>78119361
I just don't want to be a dredge on society, I have never felt anything about religion and I don't need to fear it to live a moral life.
It's a period of probation.
A test.
To see if you're worthy to live in the presence of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
That's what the Great Day of Judgement is all about.
It's Graduation Day for some and Expulsion for others.
Good luck everyone on your test scores!!
>>78120511
That's not true, the conjunction of spheres account for most of what we call "ghosts" and "spirits" God is really just a powerful relict.
>>78119406
>Token black guy
>>78119361
>Without religious morality, what's the incentive of living a life of good conduct?
common sense?
I would like to think you don't need to be religious to have some common sense, that being the first guarantees the later
>>78119361
Other people, your family, friends and your superiors have way more influence on how morally you live your life than your imaginary sky god. When you avoid driving over the speed limit, are you thinking about what the bible says about obeying your rulers, or are you just afraid of a speeding ticket and the humiliation it causes?
>Romans 13:1: Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
I guess killing jews under Hitlers rule wasn't so bad after all now was it? God basically put Hitler into power, so rebelling against Hitler would be rebelling against God. Checkmate christian cucks.
>>78119406
The only confirmed atheist there is Richard Dawkins.
>>78120622
Life is a test but don't worry, in the end everyone passes!
>>78120853
>everyone passes
nope
>>78119361
there isn't one this is why kikes are behind it
they want more immoral subversive goys
christkuks are only slightly better and only if they basically make their own sect that explicitly says there are no jews, people who claim to be are the devil.
praise kek
>>78120772
*the first doesn't guarantee the later doe
>>78121033
It was a joke ;_;
It sounds cliche but for me it comes down to the phrase "Treat others how you would like to be treated" or some shit like that.
I mean sure, I could go out and commit crimes, but unless it's a victimless crime, it's at someones expense, and while no one is forcing you to respect other people, it's this society of trust we've developed that's gotten even you where you are today. I wouldn't kill someone, or steal from someone, or do anything that I wouldn't want to happen to me, unless I felt that particular person deserved it, which is a whole other matter.
The other thing is it's about trust. Sure you can be a petty little bitch ass thieve, but trust me, everyone and their mother will catch on and that's all you'll ever be. When you learn self-restraint and respect for others, their respect comes back to you and puts you in a better position.
people will b nice to me if im nice to them and when im nice i feel gud
also if ur nice, sometimes u get rewarded with the company of other good people u fckin fag
>>78119361
thats why we have laws, retard. you get punished for your bad actions in this life, not in some imaginary land after you die. i swear christfags are the dumbest faggots on this earth after muslims
>>78120776
John 19:11
Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me unless it were given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed Me over to you is guilty of greater sin."
>good luck in the next life
>>78121205
Laws have loopholes.
>>78119361
If you need to be held at gunpoint to act morally upright, you have some serious fucking problems.
>>78121248
at least they actually exist
>>78119361
>religion
>moral
Prove it.
>>78121253
Tell that to the politicians.
>>78121292
Laws are social constructs.
>>78121205
>gee---i wonder where laws come from
>>78119361
>I can/will only be a good person if someone threatens me with eternal damnation
Christcucks in a nutshell.
>>78121311
I don't need to. I have faith.
>>78119361
>what's the incentive of living a life of good conduct?
Getting to know jice people? Being seen as someone helpful and good to hang out with?
Do you really need a book to tell you not to be an ass?
>>78121400
Then I have faith atheism is moral.
>>78121490
>Then I have faith atheism is moral.
wat
There is no point to anything, nihilism is pretty logically bulletproof. However, unless you're literally a sociopath you can't reason yourself out of acting according to what you think is moral. Morality is in our biology. It doesn't manifest itself identically in all cultures and across all peoples, but we all have it in some form. Except, again, for actual sociopaths.
>>78121511
He's making fun of you love.
>>78119361
If you need religion to keep you from being an asshole you probably have other problems
>>78121331
Society is a social construct.
>>78119361
The incentive is because it brings me good things in this life to be "good" in this world. Plus, doing harm to others only brings harm to me in the end. If you kill a man, then you've got people wanting to kill you for instance.
>I mean if you can get away with everything that benefits you regardless morality, what's the point of exclusively following the 'right' spectrum?
Being responsible for one's own morality also makes you responsible for your bad deeds, which religion excuses usually. The notion of being a sinner and being forgiven. I think it incentives people to sin really. You can "get away with it" because God will forgive. That usually leads people behaving really badly and thinking it will be magically excused. Without that magical excuse, I now I have to control myself instead. And I do.
I have to face the consequences of acting badly, so I choose to act good instead.
>>78119630
Because it sucks when people don't give you credit for not being a cunt. I still think we should award or incentivize good behavior. All we do is punish bad behavior, while expecting good behavior to automatically just happen. This leads to people being as shitty as they can get away with without being punished. Incentivize good behavior and it will motivate people to be better since they feel they are getting something out of it.
I try to do this more hear, like telling posters they made a good post, instead of just shitposting when I disagree with. Encouraging what I want to see more off.
>implying religious people always do the right thing
this "atheists have no sense morality" has been refuted time and time again. Get good, Christfag
>>78119613
Because a lot of Humans have not undergone the mental shift required to break out of a risk vs reward system.
It's a slow psychological evolution.
>>78121359
people made them up. just like they made up god.
>>78121774
No it hasn't.
Atheism has no sense of morality, any morality Western atheists claim to possess is simply Christian morality with the serial number scratched off.
>>78121774
>implying religious people always do the right thing
I never implied that. I'm just asking if morality doesn't have an inherent quality in it why observe just one side of the spectrum.
I mean if you're doing good but bad things keep happening to you, why bother?
>>78119361
It feels good to be good, brother. You don't need religion to lead an honorable life. It's about the path you travel, not the books you carry.
>>78121867
10/uneducated serf
Good conduct = easier to advance career, find a partner, start a family and upkeep it, etc.
There are plenty of natural benefits to good conduct without taking religion into account at all. Effectively all life goals humans deem the most important require it.
>>78121931
>integrity
>>78119406
Please tell me this is satire
>>78121914
>Western atheists claim to possess is simply Christian morality with the serial number scratched off.
How self centered do you have to be to genuinely believe this? Morality can come from a wide array of places. While atheism in and of itself doesn't offer you some sort of code of morality, you can be simultaneously atheist and have a moral framework.
>>78119361
>>78121931
Because shit happens to everybody. Look. Nobody is going to remember either of us in 200 years, which is pretty much no time at all, in the scheme of things. What do you want to spend your life doing? I'd prefer to spend my life comfy, helping people, and bettering myself. That's just me though.
>>78119361
Some argue that it is because of empathy but they can just as easily rationalize other behaviors because yolo
>>78122082
>That little girl that comes out at the end
>>78122028
I'm a Catholic, but I try to be neutral in this kind of arguments.
My take on this is what the mind thinks and sees, especially what the self doing, affects the predisposition of your actions and the perception of the consequences it may bring.
>>78122445
So you have faith of good actions resulting to a more comfy and better life?
>>78119361
>If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shit
>>78122264
>you can be simultaneously atheist and have a moral framework.
I'm going to assume you're talking about the Western positivist atheist materialist rather than people whose religion do not have a god figure and respond according to that premise.
No.
You cannot be simultaneously atheist and have a moral framework. If you think you can it's because you have not fully considered the philosophical ramifications of a meaningless universe.
A western atheist cannot have a moral framework he can only have personal preferences.
>>78121931
>I mean if you're doing good but bad things keep happening to you, why bother?
Because doing bad things feels bad and corrupts your character.
>>78122707
>I'm going to assume you're talking about the Western positivist atheist materialist rather than people whose religion do not have a god figure and respond according to that premise.
No.
The christian morality has no claim to objectivity. Their morality is no more solid than that of a common man or an atheist.
>1 Samuel 15:3: Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.
>6th commandment: Thou shalt not kill.
God changes his way of morality the same way a common man changes his when circumstances change enough for him to see things in a different light.
>>78122747
Well then in case you are correct an atheist can hypothetically have a moral framework but this thread isn't about Buddhism or other nontheists as they possess a sense of religious morality.
>>78122583
>My take on this is what the mind thinks and sees, especially what the self doing, affects the predisposition of your actions and the perception of the consequences it may bring.
I don't believe in karma, or any magic forces. I don't expect to get anything out of being a good person. I mean, I guess I don't understand needing a motive to not be an asshole.
>So you have faith of good actions resulting to a more comfy and better life?
I'm comfy because I've always worked on bettering myself, and now have a really good job doing what I enjoy. My grandfather told me that if you stand still, the world isn't going to wait for you.
>>78122680
I know I'll be rewarded one way or another. I'm just trying to understand people who don't have concept of that.
How can you justify righteousness without external factors such as a divine being or force.
Buddhists believe actions are like seeds, plant a good seed and it will yield a good fruit no matter what.
Please keep in mind the common western understanding of karma is pretty juvenile compared to the esoterics
>>78122707
I should add that even if we operate from a positivist materialist point of view, there is still great benefit to be had from morality, meaningless universe and all.
What about people that are religious and are still immoral? Or are you going to pull a "those aren't real Christians/whatever" like commies do with defending communism and Muslims with Islam?
>>78123016
>I mean, I guess I don't understand needing a motive to not be an asshole.
Then clearly you're oblivious to your own behavior and never really put much thought into the matter.
>science has exposed the vastness of the universe
>science has exposed the timeline and development of our universe
>retards literally still believe human morality is applicable in the grand scheme
>retards literally still believe that organized establishments geared toward social control are viable cosmological models
>>78122919
Buddhist morality is quite self serving, it's not 100% religious.
>>78123106
Normally it's that they are Christian but they don't act as one.
It can depend on the sect I think
>>78123016
>I don't believe in karma
I'm not referring to karma. I'm referring to the human unconscious psyche's ability to program its perception of reality based on the process and actions it undergoes. Think of 'artificial intelligence' like Tay.
>>78123060
>there is still great benefit to be had from morality, meaningless universe and all.
No there isn't.
The concept of benefit cannot be defined in a universe that is meaningless. Benefit is an emotional term that has no relationship to reality outside of a personal subjective context.
4 does not benefit from being the sum of 2 and 2.
> religion
> good morality
>>78123181
THIS FFS
>>78119361
honor
>>78122264
Right, a wide variety of sources, all of which western atheists can derive morality from are heavily influenced by centuries and centuries of Christianity. People generally don't sit down and purposefully think about their morals, they just kind of soak them in from the prevailing culture and their family. Which, in the West, remains mostly derived from centuries of Christianity.
>>78123203
On the contrary, the main purpose of Buddhism is to destroy the self.
>>78123181
>retards still believe humanity can survive after it has deconstructed itself.
>>78123123
In today's society, you don't have to compete for resources anywhere near as intensely as just a few hundred years ago. Honestly, if you can't cut it in modern society without being a thief, liar, cheat, or thug, you're sub-human trash.
Also posting the whole image.
This is what christcucks actually believe in
>>78123297
Emotions are pretty real to me.
>Without religious morality, what's the incentive of living a life of good conduct?
Societies demonstrably die out if you actively harm it. You don't need a god for that.
In fact, the idea that the only reason you're moral is to just get a heavenly reward is kind of creepy and psychotic
>>78123203
There is no reason a religion cannot be self serving.
>>78123422
Your emotions don't matter and are purely your personal problem.
>>78123424
>Societies demonstrably die out if you actively harm it
Why is that bad?
>>78123419
Sure is great seeing you on every one of these saying the same thing and not adding anything to the conversation.
Really warms my heart.
>>78123363
Honor is a purely a male construct. If women don't believe in external forces, they're just amoral and self serving.
Proof: western women.
>>78119361
When you treat people like shit, people tend to treat you like shit in return.
Idk why people think atheist = amoral.
All it means is I don't care about gods/religions.
>>78123532
Because if the society dies out, I will most likely die along with it. My empathy is partially an act of self preservation.
Also, I know how to put myself into other people's shoes, which is a skill you clearly don't possess
>>78123498
What's wrong with that? If I don't do a bad deed because it'll cause me to go to hell, that's also just my personal problem isn't it?
>>78122707
Are you implying that the general Christian population has contemplated the philosophical ramifications of the universe in an in depth manner?
>>78119361
That looks pretty sweet, to finally be rid of all the people and be able to fully embrace solitude.
>>78123645
The image forgot the banana
>>78123269
Where are you even going with this?
>>78123419
I wonder if you'd find that ramifications of that picture quite as amusing if you replaced God's admonishment not to masturbate with God command that you should not commit murder.
Still silly and meaningless right?
>>78123376
For example, the general prohibition on sleeping with other people when you're in a relationship is hardly a universal thing, and is quite clearly derived from Christian prohibitions on adultery. The idea that honesty is a virtue in itself is not a global one, as many East Asian cultures believe one is foolish for telling the truth openly when it can have negative repercussions, because they don't have centuries of omniscient beings knowing their entire hearts and minds. You can just keep making examples like this.
>>78123719
>Because if the society dies out, I will most likely die along with it.
So what?
Self-preservation is pointless.
Life and death are equally valueless and therefore interchangeable.
>>78123498
Careful with that edge anon.
>>78121633
Social constructs are social constructs
>>78123906
That's your opinion, not a fact. You might be able to ignore the counterpoints to that opinion, but you can't ignore the consequences of it, which are very much real
>>78123376
>>78123867
I believe that morality comes mostly from human nature. We have an innate sense of fairness, and unless you're a psychopath you feel guilty when you hurt people. Dishonesty is bad because it's bad for you to create a rift between you and another person, and lying is bad for the same reason, it creates a type of stress.
>>78123906
I'm gonna help you out, because I too was once a nihilist teenager and I know how it sucks.
The trick with a meaningless life is that you can assign whatever meaning you want to it and it's perfectly valid because there isn't a standard to hold it to. This is a very empowering thing and an important thing to do if you want to grow up and be fulfilled and happy. Which, objectively meaningless as it is, I'm sure you do.
>>78119361
I get my morality from the culture I grew up in, the parents who raised me and my own sense of empathy. If you can't be a good person without religion you're just a poser.
>>78123722
>What's wrong with that?
The fact that it's hypocritical and inconsistent reasoning.
>The universe is inherently meaningless!
>My emotions on the other hand have meaning though because reasons....
If you are a positivist atheist then you must believe that there is nothing metaphysical about your emotions and that they are just another part of the universe. If the universe is meaningless then your emotions are also meaningless and of no value.
>>78123742
No.
>>78123810
Justifying good moral actions. Performing good actions will program your perception of the consequences as good even if 'bad' things happens to you. Believing in the eventuality of goodness as an effect of good deeds no matter what.
In one word, faith.
Religion was invented to convince the dumb masses to not be degenerate.
That is not to say that religion is necessary, I'm a secular traditionalist. However, fedoras attack a pillar of society without thinking what that pillar props up.
>>78119361
The incentive is to seize power, to use it, to crush your enemies, to destroy them.
The morality that everyone ought to follow is master morality rather than slave morality. Christianity is a religion of slave morality. Islam is master morality, which is why it is swallowing up the West.
The only way Islam can be defeated is by the birth of a cold, ruthless, heartless atheism, one which will send the SJWS to gulags and seduce the Muslims to their destruction..
"Deus Vult", might work yet. But when that fails, only atheism with master morality, the atheism that allows a person to conquer a whole country and enslave millions of people without a qualm, can wipe out Islam.
Because the meek will not inherit the Earth, only the heartlessly strong will conquer it.
Source: Pic related.
>>78124486
>tips hammer and sickle
>>78124513
But seriously, another Stalin is what Muslims deserve.
> Hujum (Russian: Хyджyм; in Turkic languages, storming or assault, from Arabic: هجوم) was a series of policies and actions taken by the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, initiated by Joseph Stalin, to try to have women in the Muslim majority areas of the Soviet Union remove their veils.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hujum
>>78119361
What you fail to realise is that we don't need religion for morals it's called not being a fucking cunt.
You think just cause some people believe in some fucking dumb illiterate witch doctors no ones gonna kill or steal.
>I mean if you can get away with everything that benefits you regardless morality
Once again your grouping all Atheists into communist,lefties and rapists but people will always prefer to do the kind thing it's called being White and intelligent
I could ask the same about rich Christian business owners or lavish spenders who are Christian. Or Stacy the slut who goes out and parties sucks ten dicks then the next Sunday is praying to God for repentance then does it all again
I'm more worried about people who think the only thing stopping them from going out and raping babies is a few pages of a book. Use your brain you dumbfucks.
Go lick some more Muslim feet anyway make like the Church and cuck yourself I mean we're all gods creatures right. I can't see how you guys are racist and angry aren't you going against your book mate. Would Jesus and Mary want you calling black people niggers?
>>78119361
I put it like this
Helping other people,having freindship and supporting society benefits me far more than being a sociopath would. If I pay my taxes,vote in good leadership and just be a good citizen,life will get better for me,the tribe is happy
The more dependent I am on myself for survival the less empathy I would feel.
>>78124204
I'm not a nihilist, nor am I a teenager. I am however operating from the logical premises that follow from an atheist worldview for the sake of this discussion.
>The trick with a meaningless life is that you can assign whatever meaning you want to it and it's perfectly valid because there isn't a standard to hold it to. This is a very empowering thing and an important thing to do if you want to grow up and be fulfilled and happy.
I used to think like that when I was an atheist. I thought my "will to power" was the answer to all my problems and I was finally free to "empower" myself enlightened by my own intelligence.
Then life caused me to realize that the universe doesn't give a damn about my "will" and I sure as hell don't actually have any power to shape reality beyond beyond the most insubstantial measures.
The artificial meanings created by mortal men to justify their lives burst like soap bubbles in a whirlwind when they brush up against the pressures of the real world.
>>78122082
WHAT THE FUCK
>>78124431
>secular traditionalist
Actually, that's brilliant if I were thinking as an atheist. To deny religion as part of human evolution is preposterous. Its existence is inherent proof.
>>78124333
I don't believe my emotions have a meaning by some universal standard, or even much meaning by a personal standard, my behavior is guided by my desire to avoid future suffering and the understanding that there are long term ramifications to my mind whenever I do or say something with bad intent. My intent can change my character and cause me problems further down the line. If I steal I'll become greedy, if I get angry I'll become more prone to anger, if I kill I'll be tormented by guilt, with those considerations in mind I try to follow a certain code of conduct, that code I call morality.
>>78124169
Perhaps. I'm more convinced that human nature is about as animalistic as any other animal, and while it might be hard to determine who's most important out of yourself, your children, and the people you're closest with, people outside your social group are effectively not human at all and their suffering and death is basically a non issue, which is why people will literally just stand around and watch somebody die, and really don't take much pressuring to actually kill. It's not so long ago that people in Europe were eating each other, and in fact people still do it to this day. Lying is sometimes more beneficial to everybody involved, to the point that people will maintain a lie for years and years, despite feeling morally guilty for it (for example, telling your wife you cheated on her will ease your guilt, but blow up your family).
Now, I will grant you that certain human populations are naturally more predisposed to certain morals, like Scandinavians are notably more generous than most, but even they were raping and pillaging indiscriminately before Christianization. All the evidence suggests that to get humans to cooperate beyond the size of a related tribe (or about 150 people) you need an externally imposed moral framework. The one that has held sway for centuries in the West, and still forms the foundation for our (rapidly changing) modern moral framework, is Christianity.
And I'm not even a Christian.
>>78124956
>my behavior is guided by my desire to avoid future suffering
So you in fact have no morality and the one thing that holds you back from killing is the fear of your own guilt.
Heaven help us all when you realize that guilt is a choice.....
>be atheist
>dont believe in god
>lie, cheat, steal, murder my whole life
>when I get caught inform the police I'm an atheist and that means I can get away with anything
>they release me and the fun begins all over again
>>78125112
Is feeling guilty whenever you hurt someone not a sign of having a conscience? How would you go about convincing a psychopath not to hurt people, I have no idea.
>>78125119
> Be religious
> Believe in god
> lie, cheat steal, murder my whole life
> when I get caught inform the police my holy book and god told me to do it and that means I can get away with anything
> they release me and the fun begins all over again
>>78124869
If you was an atheist, what are you now?
>>78125091
There are a lot of damaged people that lead messed up lives and hurt other people left and right, but there is incentive, from human nature, to keep your morality. It's the only way to be at peace with yourself.
>>78125272
> I can get away with anything
But you can't. Either you repent, pay for your sins in this life and don't sin anymore, or you pay for them forever after death.
>>78125228
Of course you don't, everyone in your country is a psychopath you don't know what a normal human looks like.
>>78123308
19:15 - 19:19 check mate cuck he used it as a bait tactic to escape
>>78125979
If your holy book or god tells you to do it, it must be right yeah?
>>78125815
If you have compelling reason to believe that human nature inspires benevolence, I'd love to hear it, because as far as I know human nature should be fairly similar to the nature of any other ape or group predator, which is largely 'fuck that other pride of lions/pack of wolves/troop of chimpanzees, lets kill them' Which is why millenia of human existence, as far as we can tell, was defined by murdering and enslaving those savage cock suckers over the hill for the benefit of you and yours.
>>78119534
that doesnt explain anything, what you are feeling is your spirit shine by following the way of Jesus Christ.
>>78119551
kill yourself, then, unless you want to elaborate on your point.
>>78119612
good job not saying a single thought, go be a politician
>>78119613
being evil and selfish is so much easier. Every child had commited a sin in their youth and that alone speaks volumes.
>>78119704
believing in Christ as your one and only savior = life
believing in works as your savior = eternal hell
>>78119869
faith sets you free. Not works. Listen to the Bible and you will understand too.
>>78120622
Amen, praise Jesus Christ. Thank my lord for His gifts and love
>>78120772
common sense tells me to steal, rape, kill, lust after, envy, forbid because XYZ is too XYZ for me. There is no sense without the foundations God gives us.
>>78121051
about 40 different people from different points in history from different backgrounds wrote the Bible.
>>78121186
Morals dont exist without God. there is no logical reason to fight for anyone but myself and wellbeing. Sex is meaningless if i dont like it. Money is worthless if i can steal it. People are just enemies or assets without God.
>>78121540
this is Proof of God.
>>78124869
great job saying nothing at all. Go be a politician.
>>78124869
Humans have a very real power to shape their own reality, it's your personal choice if you wanna call your own actions insubstantial. Sure we can't blow up a star or create galaxies at will, but I don't see that mattering as long as we're a human form, able to observe the universe only with the tools present to us.
We're able to work with a lot of materials and substances in a lot of different ways, if you want to discard it all because there's something bigger and different though unreachable to us, then go on. Atleast humans can give meaning to things in their own minds while we live. As long as there's sentient beings in this universe, I don't see it being meaningless. You can focus on the current and see meaning in life or focus on the far far future when all life ceases to exist and everything is meaningless.
>>78123841
>h-hey, our religion has basic human rights included, so that means you have to adhere to the rest of our horseshit!
"Graven images" is right along not killing in your core tenants. You think /pol/ is helping you?
If you were born in India, you'd be eating cow shit as "ayurvedic medicine", because you're a gullible moron who will believe whatever ancient book can promise you eternity
>>78126660
Jesus Christ is the way to God and His Kingdom.
>>78126255
The causal relationship between morality and your own mental health is complex, there isn't just one big reason why you should behave morally, but in general whenever you hurt other people, you create a great deal of mental stress, and also doing certain things will create bad habits. When you steal, you'll become more greedy, and you'll be afraid that your property will be stolen, when you kill you'll be afraid that someone will kill you. The more you engage in those activities, or even think or talk about them, the more messed up your mind becomes. It's best to stay away from the sort of lifestyle where you hurt people as much as you can, you'll sleep better at night and keep your mind pure. Someone who has a lifestyle where they constantly hurt people, constantly concerned about their pride, constantly being greedy, constantly concerned about not being cheated, they can't really be at peace. Even though it makes sense on some level not to let people insult your pride or hurt you in other ways, it's better to just stay away from it all, because if you become engaged with those things you can get carried away. Even a single quarrel can end with someone getting murdered, you never know how you'll get caught up with things.
>>78126255
When a lion pack kills another lion pack, it's usually to take over their territory, so the new pack has land to settle and live in. It's not normal for lion packs to endlessly wander around looking for other lions to kill. It's just a tool for them to survive, not the end goal.
>>78119361
Living a life with good conduct and cooperations with others because of how the system we live in works and because of the consiquences.
If such a system didn't exist I would kill others to survive, rape, kidnap, pillage.
>>78127097
I know, that's true, but you're calling most of the humans in history brain damaged. That doesn't make sense. The default state in nature must be human nature, no? Hence the need for an externally imposed morality and the insistence of philosophers and religious figures for millenia that man is a base animal that needs to be uplifted with logic or devotion to God or the four noble truths or whatever.
>>78127136
True, and non-sociopathic humans don't wander around looking for other humans to kill either. This is why most murders, wars, genocides, and so on have a justification. People generally don't kill for it's own sake, but it's not hard to derive a good reason to do so. Killing people probably isn't pleasant, but it's far from so horrible that it takes a lot of work to make it a great idea. In a state of nature, at least.
>>78127811
The benefits from good morality come directly from the fact human nature is the way it is, but being perfectly moral isn't the default state. I don't see a contradiction, if someone dies from snake venom then it's because of human nature. Snake nature is different and a snake might not die from it's own venom.
>>78119361
>Without religious morality, what's the incentive of living a life of good conduct?
People are nice to people who aren't assholes, doing good things feels good, people will think well of you, you happen to incidentally enjoy doing things that are good. As an apatheist I still work for Habitat for Humanity sometimes because I like to help people, it is somewhat useful for making connections with potential contractors, and most importantly I have always enjoyed physical labour. Also donate money when I spend money on frivolities because fuck if I can waste $30 on a game I will probably only get 10 hours of enjoyment from I can surely waste $30 ensuring poor people can get food or orphans can be sent to families that won't molest them too much. Just because morality is subjective doesn't mean your moral code needs to focus on being a dick.
Honestly the Christian afterlife sounds downright hellish
>Live for all eternity
>Do literally everything eventually
This is boredom on an incomprehensible scale. I prefer Hinduism, reincarnation for what is effectively all etenity, never remember my past lives but I get a fresh start every time meaning even if I encounter the same things between lives they feel different every time. Meanwhile good behavior has much more effect on a positive outcome after death than it does for Christianity. At the end of the day however I don't give a shit, what happens happens and if God exists I seriously doubt he is petty enough to punish me for not worshiping him when I didn't know that he existed.
>>78119534
that's terribly barren.
since we talk about the inside, an intrinsic spirituality is very important.
thus, atheism belongs into the trash.
![eba[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/odbFPLs.jpg "eba[1].jpg")
>>78123308
>I don't understand how Ancient Mediterranean sexuality worked but I'm going to pretend I do anyway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_in_ancient_Rome#Male_sexuality
>The "conquest mentality" was part of a "cult of virility" that particularly shaped Roman homosexual practices.[147] In the late 20th and early 21st centuries, an emphasis on domination has led scholars to view expressions of Roman male sexuality in terms of a "penetrator-penetrated" binary model; that is, the proper way for a Roman male to seek sexual gratification was to insert his penis in his partner.[19] Allowing himself to be penetrated threatened his liberty as a free citizen as well as his sexual integrity.[148]
In other words, if we ignore the implied criticism of binary models, a Roman either penetrated or was penetrated. Being penetrated by another, especially when you were a (free) man, was considered a humiliation.
More on point, this citation on sexuality in the Ancient Middle East:
http://epistle.us/hbarticles/neareast.html
>To penetrate a male who was of equal status or a cult prostitute was thought to bring good fortune; but copulation with a royal attendant, a fellow prisoner, or a household slave was thought to probably spell trouble.
Add to that the fact that the event in question was LITERALLY taking place in Sodom and what can we say, now that we know the cultural context? These men were most likely interested in humiliating outsiders, in subjugating them through anal rape. Because that's actually how it worked in the Ancient Mediterranean world.
And why did Lot offer his daughters? On top of that, why did he emphasize their virginity and helplessness? In a culture that severely punishes fornication? Because there was no honor in raping them, while there was honor in raping these men: you were subjugating a free man of equal or higher standing, not some woman who was subjugated by default.
In other words, he offered the rape gang a less honorable target.
>>78129603
>""""ancient"""" Rome
Its usually easier to do the "nice" thing rather than be an asshole either due to the way people will treat you. If you steal something, you might not get caught, but if you do, you can go to jail. You can kill someone, but if you do, you can go to jail.
I can go into the kitchen and steal my dad's lunch, but since he is paying for my college, that would kind of be an asshole thing to do.
Even without religious morals, theres enough reason to be nice. That doesn't mean I'm going to live the life of a saint and go and wash the homeless' feet. It just means I won't spit on them as I walk by because there is no reason to do so. It doesn't benefit me or them. And if you can't realize that and if it weren't for the thought that god would punish you if you did, you're a horrible person.
Anyone who is religious that thinks that religious morals are only good because they're "religious morals" strike me as horrible religious people. It makes me think that if your God didn't forbid murder, then you would be willing to murder at a whim.
Also, this thread is shit.
>>78119361
>Without religious morality, what's the incentive of living a life of good conduct?
Secular morality. There's many different derived secular moral systems which atheists follow in order to maximize liberty while also minimizing harm to others.
The point of following the "right" spectrum is that people desire others to behave morally towards themselves, and the best way to achieve that goal is to behave that way towards others, it's in your own best interest to act in a moral way. You can try and cheat the system but you're trading benefit gained from abuse vs risk of being caught and punished.
