Why are americans so afraid of socialism? When critiquing it you only seem to refer how badly USSR and the other Warsaw-pact-countrie fuctioned. This was autocratic socialism or communism, builit upon a feudalistic background. Troitsky and ,maybe even Lenin forsaw this to fail. But hell, have you ever heard of Scandinavia?? We are the happiest motherfuckers in the world all thanks to democratic socialism. Shit is really functioning well here (except for the cucks in Sweden who fucked up on the immigration front). Yes we in Norwayt was shit lucky with finding oil, but the US have a shit-ton more oil than us. Imagine if the US government took a larger share of these resurces and used it to help the people. The world would become a much better place! Don't practise the irrational McCarthyism!!
>>78096005
fuck the proles, most of them are retarded apes already making arbitrarily high wages because of shitty socialist policies
those with ability to succeed deserve more
Because socialism is the road to hell.
Fuck socialism.
>>78096005
Norway has a smaller population, and the US would have a rough transition, while Norway has been doing it for a while now
Still, I'm amazed at the Scandinavians' ability to have socialism and not completely fuck it up, it's impressive
>>78096005
Welfarw isn't Socialism, pretty weird a Scandi uses that definition, normally I only hear that from across the atlantic.
Yeah, the USSR was shit because they gave the means of production to the state, they didn't have a lot of welfare.
>>78096213
Succes requires in most cases education which is not affordable to everyone. In Scandinavia it's free
>>78096319
Scandinavian socialism is not very "socialist" in the grand scheme of things, which is why they haven't gone full Venezuela.
>>78096642
Compared to Sander's policies we are much more USSR, and Sanders is being called commuistic by some reets
>>78096319
>scandinavian socialism
It's not socialism, but some socialistic policies, also our nations weren't built on it, merely adopted it after we became prosperous under liberal capitalism.
After we adopted socialistic policies however all Scandinavian has turned into shit and will continue towards worse if we don't stop it.
Socialism has done nothing but ruined Scandinavia.
>>78096583
>free
That's false and you know it. It's paid for through taxes, it's not free.
>>78096937
Sweden wasn't even pissed on by a german under WWII. Norway was smashed to shit. Socialism was absolutly needed to rebuild
>>78096005
Why don't you ask Venezuela about socialism...
inb4 "not real socialism"
>>78097016
taxes that everyone can afford to pay
Socialism only works within a democratic culture. Putting up money for taxes only works if you get to impact the decisions of where tax funds get spent. It's funny that some the things people criticize in communism actually occurs in capitalism. People have very little control over how their tax dollars get spent, huge conglomerates and collectivist combinations of the wealthy pretty much control how tax money gets utilized, the public plays a very small role.
>>78097270
They're taxes everyone can afford to pay until they're raised to a point where you become dependent on the government to subsidize you because the taxes take away sufficiently enough to limit you.
You want to tell me if China is socialist? I mean they literally have a Communist Party.
Socialism isn't what works in your country, homogeneity is what works. Homogeneous white societies could function under any system except maybe full on communism, which rots the soul of any peoplehood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4kHiUAjTvQ
>>78097234
corrupted socialism comrade
>>78097376
autocratic socialism, democratic soicalism is the way to go
>>78097270
>can afford to pay
Literally has nothing to do with it.
>>78097468
20.1% of all norwegians have a migrant background. Mostly swedes but alot of eastern-Eurpopeans and Middel-Easterns.
>>78097904
Oh okay. I was just thinking about all the people in the world that cannot afford education. Cuck
Welfare and taxes isn't socialism, the worker control over the means of production is.
>>78097468
Do you even know what communism is?
>inb4 "the guvmint owns muh toothbrush."
>>78097376
That's actually happening in western countries. Taxes on spending and incomes have been increasing, taxes on capital gains and dividends have been decreasing. Corporate taxes (a way of minimizing tax implications already) have decreased. The burden has just been shifted, most people in capitalist countries who work now require government subsidies in some capacity.
>>78096005
Because I'm from Canada where socialist doctors decided it wasn't worth treating my father's cancer or even give him a bed to die in.
>>78099274
Complete bullshit, they take everybody in. I don't understand why people don't realize that you're much more likely to die in a USA hospital than in places like Canada.
>>78096005
Because socialism is the road to communism and communism doesn't really work in an capitalist society
>>78099005
not nessecarily the worker but the people
>>78099520
That's why there is no capitalist society anymore when we instill communism.
>>78097966
the USA is 18% black: average IQ 85
and also 30% non-white Hispanics: Average IQ 85-90
That's REALLY below the levels for a sustainable post industrial capitalist democracy let alone democratic socialism. Especially in the atmosphere of "everyone is equal". The minorities here have this unshakable notion now that they are worse because they are oppressed. Any disparity is seen as racism that must be systemically rigged back into their favor as opposed to a natural disparity from a large IQ gap.
No decisions can be made now without pandering to this unteachable block of citizens. But we are also still giving handouts like the money doesn't end. No, more social programs will continue to get wasted on the masses of people who shouldn't even be here. (our immigration laws were changed in the 60s purposefully im import a dependent class as a voting block for democrats)
>>78099520
Communism is bad but complete capitalism is worse. We live in a world where it is profitable to chop down the earth's lungs, where it is profitable to kill a person to sell his organs on the black market, a world where we start wars for oil.
>>78099414
They do not. They allocate (triage) limited resources for the unlimited illness of the population.
This is first hand experience - I watched my father die shivering in a hallway on a gurney in Princess Margaret Hospital in Toronto because there were 'no beds'.
You need to get your head out of your fucking ass about single payer healthcare.
It's great on paper, until you get sick.
>>78099231
It's amusing that this is done under the assumption that decreasing taxes on the wealthy someone translates into more jobs. Which is ridiculous considering that the only way economists can show job growth is by hilarious manipulations of employment/job statistics.
>>78097489
>>78097673
>not real socialism
>>78096005
>But hell, have you ever heard of Scandinavia??
Yeah we have.
We hear about Sweden in particular all the time on /pol/.
>>78099914
>We live in a world where it is profitable to chop down the earth's lungs
The wood has to come from somewhere hippy.
>>78096005
Socialism is not a thing. It's capitalism only done wrong. Marxism is an analysis and critque of Capitalism but it doesn't offer an alternative to capitalism besides muh break chains and muh no private property revolution.
>>78099690
that may be explained with the history of blacks in America. Taken from the African wilderness and put on a field to work all their lives. I would assume that blacks in the North who started early with education has a higher average IQ than the blacks in the South. This is of course only speculations and requires that inteligence is inheritable...
>>78100012
im not saying it is not socialism just the worng type
>>78100233
not the fucking rainforest
>>78100236
Have you even read The Communist Manifesto? It absolutely does offer an alternative. A classless, stateless, money-less society where no one is bound by wage slavery or an oppressive government.
>>78100708
Not a single example of successful implementation.
It conflicts fundamentally with human nature.
>>78096005
>Why are americans so afraid of socialism?
Because they only know what they heard on Fox "news".
College graduates who have some critical thinking skills probably know a little bit about it, but right wing conservatives know less than nothing.
Just saying the word "socialism" terrifies righties so badly they shit their shorts and start shrieking nonsense.
>>78096005
>Scandinavia
>Socialist
Grab a noose faggot, 'cause whatever world view you think you have is nothing but the shards of a shattered vase.
>>78100805
If you're talking about how humans are "naturally greedy", that's complete bullshit. How do you think our hunter-gatherer ancestors survived? Humans are more than capable of working together collectively. Capitalism has only been around for 500 years or so, We were primitive communist for 1000's before then.
>>78100969
It's sad cause he has the right idea, but ultimately he doesn't know what socialism actually is.
>>78100805
>Not a single example of successful implementation.
So how did the poorest serfdom in Europe/Asia rise to become America's only superpower rival in on 50 years? Why is China kicking our ass in every measurable economic indicator?
>>78100805
It have to be a global revolution and that won't ever happen much thanks to the US' anti communism campaign during the 20th
>>78096005
>Don't practise the irrational McCarthyism!!
McCarthy was right though.
>>78101032
Nope. You're talking about family and community. Marxism opposes that level of organization and believes the state should fulfil the role of spouse, neighbour, parent.
These are organic and natural human levels of social organization (otherwise known as charity) that cannot and should not be scaled to a societal level or implemented by the state at the point of a gun.
>>78096005
>>78100969
>>78101080
Socialism isn't one single system, it's the idea of the people working for the people
>>78101130
China is kicking our ass because our President is working against our interests.
>>78101032
A tribal commune =/= large scale commune
Tribal commune =/= everyone shares/no economy of labor and resources
>>78101080
>right idea
No one needs socialism
Socialism is nothing but facism under a different name.
The workers take control of the means to production
The workers can't take care of it all
Appoints people to do it for them
Point to great socialist leader
Leader does as told, appoints others under him (a government is formed). At first people who can do the job, then people who needs a favor, friends, family, drinking buddy.
System starts going to shit, leader and pals don't want to let go of their position, fights the opposition with any means neccesary.
Either lie to citizens or are deluded enough to believe any "opposition" is just "the evil capitalists".
Country falls to shit.
RINSE AND REPEAT (but this time it might work for us!)
>>78101454
People working for the people is called capitalism anon, anything else is the people working for the government.
>>78101266
maybe on some points, but the mass-hysteria as we know as McCarthyism was, as said hysterical. The banished Charlie Chaplin for christ
>>78100935
>everyone who disagrees with me is an ill informed idiot
>>78101668
captialism is people for themselves, not The people
>>78101418
There is no state under communism, where did you get the idea that the government would replace the parents?>>78101491
>>78101491
>>78100805
Human nature is much more complicated than people who say this believe. People are social beings much more than anti social asocial beings. We aren't the fastest, toughest animals in the jungle we got where we are by combining and social relations, a lot of development in our mental capacities wouldn't have occured without social interaction (language systems and the like).
>>78101921
People for themselves is the people you asshat.
>>78101867
it's a valid point that many americans are brainwashed by biast news
>>78096005
Socialism requires everyone to be willing to work, contribute, and have a trustworthy government. Just wait until you stop being homogeneous.
You gon learn some day, Jurgenson
>>78101491
>Tribal commune =/= everyone shares/no economy of labor and resources
Isn't that kind of what it is though? I really doubt there was a relationship between employee and employer in tribal communes like there is today.
European pussy socialism can only survive because of American industrial complex protecting them from russia and China
the weak should fear the strong
Economically I'm socialist and I admire many socialists. I just hate the fucking feminist bullshit that comes with it and how you're expected to socialise with people. Can't I just be a shut in?
>>78102098
Brocialist pls go
>>78102020
The people, the community of people, you rodpolse
Capitalism
>You own your money, making it through like is your own responsibility
Socialism
>The government owns your money, you surviving is up to the government (enjoy your hunger)
Communism
>The people (the government) owns you, same as socialism (enjoy you famine, starvation and being left in the dust economically)
>>78102170
>>>tumblr
Seriously this is what I mean. You're all complete normalfags. Mao, Castro, Stalin and Chadimir Lenin were just normies lording it over. My life is shit under capitalism and it would be shit under socialism. Fuck off.
>>78096005
FUCK YOU COMMIE SCUM REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>78102214
the community of the people doesn't exist.
A community is made up of individuals with their own dreams and aspirations, everyone will disagree how things are done. A community of people can only at most work at a scale of a small village in the long term.
However the world is not just a small village anymore anon, your livelyhood also depends on how everyone else are doing economically. Compete or economic noose.
>>78101956
>Human nature is much more complicated than people ... believe
Which is why human nature cannot be scaled up to national government (nanny state).
Human nature is conservative.
Family, community, charity.
>>78097234
Missing on toilet paper is so 2013.
Nowdays we are just starving to death so we don't need to shit at all.
>>78102214
How do you think capitalist businesses work you shithead nord? You start a business to fulfill a need or want of the people, and you also create opportunities for those people to provide for themselves.
If you can't make a living in a capitalist system, that just means you're either an incompetent waste of oxygen or your boss is an asshole who doesn't deserve your effort.
All government naturally becomes more and more corrupt so I don't want a system in place where the government holds huge power
>>78102811
there are great social problems in the world that cannot be solved with commpanies, more economic powerfull than countries, making decissions that only they profit from
>>78096005
Norway's social democratic, not socialist. Capitalism with high taxation and welfare isn't socialism.
>it's only socialism when it works
>when it doesn't work it's not real socialism
Arguing about this is like a neckbeard autists debating what they would with a hot girl. It's abstract unfalsiable theory that will never actually happen
>>78103066
>there are great social problems in the world that cannot be solved with commpanies.
Such as and why not?
>more economic powerfull than countries, making decissions that only they profit from
What's wrong with a country trying to secure their own riches and the riches of their people? Why is it their fault that other people are incompetent at the same game.
>>78102535
the community of communities then ffs
>>78103264
I'm not saying it is not socialism just that it is executed wrong where it fails
>>78103304
There is no community of communities anon, now you're just making shit up to defend your point.
>>78096005
McCarthy was proven right.
>>78097376
Actually china is pretty capitalist nowadays considering the amount of taxes they pay compared to their us counterparts. The only difference is that more of their companies are owned by the government. The execs, however still get paid based on how well the company does (just like stock options), so its functions just like a normal corporation.
>>78102314
>The state doesn't exist and isn't as pronounced as in socialism
>HURR DURR THIS ISN'T CAPITALISM
Capitalism and Stalinism/autocratic socialism are just two different forms of tolatarianism, except capitalism is just better at hiding the fact that the political and economic system is mostly under totalitarian control.
>>78103241
true, but we are way more socialistic than Bernie would have made USA
>>78103411
communite of communites aka society, doesn't society exists??
>>78100708
The fatal flaw in Marx's theory is the idea the state would "wither". The job before the withering is to try and prop everybody up so that everyone is the same. However, someone will always have the drive to improve, and then, UH OH, red alert, people aren't equal anymore, so the state has to delay the withering process to correct this wrong. Repeat for infinity, and curb individual rights along the way, since those can be used to get ahead, and you end up with the inevitable dictatorship that every communist country became.
>>78103304
Socialist/communist policies only work on a local scale because larger communities have different needs based on where they're located.
An industrial district has different needs from a residential one, even if they're in the same town. The industrial district won't bother trucking their water from the residential pipeline. Every deviation compounds the logistics of satisfying all parties. Do you not understand this?
>>78103459
Never said it wasn't capitalism, I'm saying capitalism is the freedom of economy, as opposed to the others.
>Capitalism and Stalinism/autocratic socialism are just two different forms of tolatarianism
This is wrong capitalism is inherently anti-totalitarian. Again it's your own responsibility wether you make it or not, as opposed to socialism or communism where it's the government that makes the descision.
>except capitalism is just better at hiding the fact that the political and economic system is mostly under totalitarian control.
My evil capitalist boogyman, again capitalism doesn't hide anything, it's blalantly obvious that money makes power and makes descisions, control the money control the power.
You trying to make a mockery instead of actually attacking any of the points I made show you have no arguments and the foundation your ideals are based on crumble at the slightest criticism.
Now it's 4 in the god damn morning, I'm going to bed have fun with whatever other mental gymnastics you and your fellow bloodstains get up to.
>>78103751
But Marx isn't the one and only correct blueprint for socialism
>>78104275
What others are there? Weren't Lenin, Stalin, et al based off of Marx? And what do you say to my analysis of Marxism?
>>78103592
Oh I agree, Sanders is useless.
>>78103866
Doesn't socialism promote coexistance?
>>78104436
Lenin and Stalin did things very differently. And the monotone it may seem that Marx wanted, is a terrible idea.
>>78101130
>No enviromental regulation, use cheap shit, dump toxic waste everywhere
>No human rights, enjoy your 90 hour week in the coal mines
>No quality, build only by cutting corners, and
>Slave Wages, except for the crooks at the politburo
>Capitalist economic policies
If i remember well, before that, red china was known for it's fail and aids, like when Mao tried his great leap forward and ended with like 50 million dead chinks
>>78104146
>capitalism is inherently anti-totalitarian
It isn't though. Even in Adam Smith's time he recognized the wealthy would often combine to force government to serve it's functions and increase their own wealth and power at the expense of everyone else. The state in his philosophy was suppose to step in and make sure that didn't happen. Albeit different sections of the wealthy have some different interests, this is why there are elections. Capitalism of the kind economists and Austrian school dick lickers jerk off to has never existed and cannot exist. A tendency towards centralization is inherent in capitalism.
>freedom of the economy
Lol. Freedom is that I can make the choice between buying a Toyota or a Chrysler but not traveling via a high speed public transit system.
>>78105050
And what is it China does wrong?? They have a authocratic government!
>>78104624
>this is why we laugh at libertarians
"free trade" is a meme
Why the fuck did I sit up all night to discuss socialism on fucking 4chan? Well shit, have a good one comrads!
>>78104146
You read some of the organized collectivist international business classes discussion between themselves (read the documents in the post world war two period) it reads like vulgar Marxist propaganda but in reverse, they must use state power to crush the organized working classes and secure their way of life.
>>78096005
Scandenavia doesnt have socialism. It has a capitalistic, free market economy. You just have high taxes and a moderate amount of welfare.
>>78101956
>tfw anti-social
Honestly the idea of living in a communal society terrifies me. Full of normies that wouldn't leave you alone, having obligations to other people. Fuck that.
>>78097234
>muh Venezuela
Pic is from Yugoslavia
>>78099206
Shh...
No truth allowed.
>>78100012
>not a non-meme argument
>>78105203
>Hurh Durr, B-b-b-u-u-t it is not my special snowflake version...
Seriously...
>>78100412
Of course most replies to this post will be "le ebin speshul snowflake kind of socialism" then they'll proceed to claim that all far-leftism is the same, conveniently described with their shitty meme arguments.
>>78106739
You could choose to go off inna woods somewhere and grow your own corn and barter with the community on rare occassion.
>>78106927
oh a picture of a beautiful beach with tourists, /pol/ btfo socialism 4 eva
>>78106927
Yes, the party members and their famlly usually live in nice places and go to the beach while the common folk starve whats your point?
Pic Related, Chavez daughter using banned currency.
>>78101418
In communism, there is no state.
Marx never said that the state should be the spouse, neighbor, and parent of every citizen. He didn't even propose the abolition of the family structure. He and most other socialist/communist thinkers supported community action, thus the dubbing of the movement "communism."
>>78101130
>using a country thats going to run out of drinkable water in 15 years as a successful implementation of communism.
>>78101956
Good post
>>78102097
Nice meme. Western Europe hasn't had a military threat for decades.
>>78107400
Just like the Soviet Union. The elite had their own stores with forbidden luxury items.
>>78102543
nanny state=/=socialism
It's possible to have socialism without a nanny state.
>>78103383
Shhh... No truth allowed.
>>78103751
Actually that's not how those dictatorships evolved. Read a history book.
>>78102573
When your state collapses make sure to get a new badass flag
>>78105050
>50 million
ebin
>>78107400
Yugoslavia's nice areas weren't restricted to an elite. In fact, there was no nomenklatura as in the USSR or China. The economy was managed by workers' councils rather than by autocratic commands.
>>78106927
Cherrypicking at it's finest...
But sure, let's not all forget how yugoslavia did end...
>>78096005
Socialism only works with a totally homogeneous society on a small scale, which is Norway.
Look what happened to your happy Smurf nation once a different group came in.
Chaos, crime, destruction of property, evaporating funds. The list goes on.
You're not as fkd as Sweden, but now you have ISIS Norge...have fun with that
>>78108358
You mean after Tito died? Yeah, things don't go so well no matter your economic system if your country has people that are trying to kill each other.
>>78100497
Most of the worlds o2 comes from oceanic sources not the trees you dumb snowcuck. Read a fucking book.
Socialism is also not a bad system in theory but it has been hijacked by a bunch of globalistic, anti-white, anti-tradition pinkos. A socialistic country can't operate without a homogeneous and virtuous people. Otherwise people devolve into a bunch of self loathing man children who like to give away their rights and property to nanny government, or a bunch of lazy (often foreign) freeloaders that leech the government for every penny they can.
>>78100314
intelligence is highly heritable and the variance in IQ that is attributable to genetics is known. The gap persists at all levels of education and income. It is a global phenomenon, existing in all black populations. Continental Africans have an even lower IQ, while African Americans (who have significant european DNA) have an IQ boost exactly inline with what you would expect.
>>78101130
They haven't. Their GDP numbers are basically made up, their air is barely breathable, and their economy is a house of cards.
>>78108023
Fun story, when the socialists took power they changed the flag. We might just go back to the old one. They are both painfully similar but its the context what matters, also they fucked up the little shield on top.
In any case we might be open to suggestions.
here is my try.
>>78109413
Start a revolution, become benevolent dictator for life, make that your flag
I will meme for you
>>78096005
Scandinavia is not Democratic Socialism. They are Social Democracies.
Why on earth does no one understand this?
>>78096005
America is great and we are rich BECAUSE WE ARE CAPITALISTS NOT SOCIALISTS
