This has probably been discussed before but let's settle it once and for all. This is Tent City in Phoenix, AZ. It's a holding area for low-level offenders,and it's mostly DUI cases serving their sentences here. Today it got up to 130 degrees inside those tents. Is this an ethical part of punishment in a civilized society?
>hot part of the world is hot
????
>>77997231
who cares?
>>77997231
I don't know, would you prefer to be sent to jail and share a cell with Jamal?
>>77997231
You seem upset that people being punished are not enjoying the experience.
Did your daddy fuck you? Did you love it?
>>77997231
>criminals and illegals suffering
Who fucking cares let them all die of heat stroke
People actually go to jail for DUI?
Shit, I got pulled over after knocking back some beers and I just argued with the cops until they got sick of me and told me to leave.
>Anon, can we search your car?
>Fuck no.
>Anon, why did you swerve over the line while driving?
>I didn't.
>Anon, is that alcohol I smell on you?
>Is it illegal to smell like alcohol, officer?
Thankfully they finally let me go because I was about ready to piss my pants. Fuckers had me on the side of the road for like 45 minutes.
>>77997231
If fucking spics and degenerates wouldn't commit crimes they wouldn't be in tent city. Today was a chain gang kind of day to really make the shit people think.
Based Sheriff Joe for Trump VP.
I like that sherriff joe in new mexico. guy rigs up a stationary bicycle with a generator so inmates have to pedal to watch tv and they only get cspan and qvc to pick from. kek. he does tents also
>>77997436
I reiterate that these are low level offenders and before we say crime is crime, it feels like should someone get sick and/or die because of the conditions of their punishment, then that could be considered state-inflicted and a case of the punishment not fitting the crime.
>>77997734
Usually if you get a second DUI you can spend time in jail. My buddy is going in for 6 months for his third DUI
If you're drinking and driving to the point where you get pulled over for it, you deserve some suffering.
Aridzona has dry heat so 130 isn't as bad as it sounds as long as the tent people were being fed and watered appropriately.
>>77997829
>someone dies from being outside
>its the states responsibility to provide air conditioning for all people in the state
They have shade, that's all that needs to be provided, what more do you fucking want? Holy shit. There are people that are free men and women with kids, that cant afford AC in the same conditions. Is that the state's fault too?
>>77997829
How about pussies and criminals get the fuck out of Arizona. There are more welcoming places for pieces of shit in California, Illinois, New York, etc.
Criminals in Phoenix face nothing more severe than what our veterans face you socialist faggot.
>>77998029
No shit, any corner near the VA there is a homeless vet with only one leg or arm and a cardboard sign.
Fuck the tent city degenerates, at least they are being fed, even if the bread is moldy.
>>77997920
But I'm not saying that criminals don't deserve punishment or that they have the 'right' to A/C, I'm saying that when the state administers punishment, do they have a responsibility to reasonably provide for the welfare of the people under their watch in a civilized society? I'm pretty sure they do. I believe in the law, this is part of the law too.
It's hotter in those shade tents than being in the sun itself btw. The Arizona sun in summer can give you skin cancer right quick.
>>77997829
>repeat DUI offenders
Fuck off. If they die, they die. Should've thought of that before driving drunk.
Why does society have such a commitment to keeping shitty people alive?
>>77997734
Hopefully you learn. My "buddy" got his first excusal with a trip for public drunkeness.
Driving piss drunk is not cool.
>>77997734
you definitely don't want to admit to anything incriminating, or at least step it down
a good trick I've seen, for example if you've been pulled over for speeding:
>"Do you know how fast you were going?"
>"I was going pretty fast. How fast did you clock me at?"
>"80 in a 55"
>"Yeah, I was going at least 60mph"
They want you to admit to the speed you were going, or at least close enough
>>77998258
>do they have a responsibility to reasonably provide for the welfare of the people under their watch in a civilized society?
they're already doing that. They have shade, food, and water. If that isn't enough to keep them alive, then just die. They have all of their basic needs catered to, if their body cant sustain itself that isn't the fault of anyone but themselves.
>>77997231
As someone who lives in AZ and has seen the conditions: Yes.
It's great public humiliation for dumb fucks who drive drunk, and just generally fucked up but we don't need to waste money on sending them to a real prison.
Their clothes? Pink underwear, shitty white shirt. shorts.
Their food? Bologna sandwiches and kool aid (on special days)
Anyone claiming it's cruel or harsh, go fuck yourselves. They're usually there less than a week. It's not hardened criminals, it's tweakers, dui's and brawlers. They're kept alive, they're kept incarcerated at a minimal spending level, and it's a great deterrent.
When you have to come back into work after a week off and you have a deep tan and lost 10 pounds, explaining that to your boss is fucking hilarious, to me.
Tent city is composed of deadbeat dads, dui offenders and criminal spics waiting for a bus ride back to Mexico. Who gives a shit, people who matter don't end up there.
>>77998127
Homeless vet can go into the hospital, can go into the Jack In The Box, can go in the gas station. He would not be kicked out on a day like today. The tent city prisoner cannot.
>>77998029
I'm a vet btw Fuck off.
>>77998258
If you want to argue against the nature of the prison system, that's fine with me. I think it's rife with very obvious problems. Look up Rev. Edward Pinkney, for instance, for an activist with what I consider to be legitimate grievances.
But a sneak attack on Based Sheriff Joe because some drunks were in a hot tent? I'll save my fucks to give somewhere else.
Tent city is not privately run, there is a golden thought. If we had more tent cities actually run by the government recidivism would drop like a fucking rock.
>>77998591
See this is why /pol/ is fucking up lately, to me. I'm not attacking Joe. I like Joe. I think he;s funny. I'm asking a legitimate law and society question using Tent City as an example because it's there and it was hot as fuck today.
>>77998466
>driving with a slight buzz deserves a week of inhumane imprisonment
go fuck yourself fascist
>>77998811
>welcome to Arizona
>guess what it's hot as fuck in the summer
Were they being served rotten food? Exploited financially? Deprived of water? Locked up unfairly? I'm just saying cite some legitimate grievances.
>>77998989
Rotten food is a norm for tent city.
>>77997231
>AZ. It's a holding area for low-level offenders,and it's mostly DUI cases serving their sentences here. Today it got up to 130 degrees inside those tents. Is this an ethical part of punishment in a civilized society?
Yes and its very affordable. California is letting people out of jails because we can't afford to built them more air conditioned cells with cable TV.
>>77998957
You're right. They need a breathalyzer on their car and points on their license, because they were over the fucking legal limit.
>hurr durr i can totally drink and drive
>driving with a slight buzz is the same as driving over .08 bav
I had a coworker and a family member drink and drive. They spent a day in there. Boo fucking Hoo
>>77998811
Nice digits. Now that's out of the way. It's called punishment. They did something shitty, they get treated shitty.
>>77999050
Well that seems cruel and unusual to me. Let's collect some documentary evidence and agitate with specific and actionable demands.
>>77999178
Wrong side faggot. The only rights those fuckers get is to remain silent like they were told when they first got into the mess.
This was yesterday. I could sit in the shade all day and not die. Its a weird heat and unless you experience it first hand you shouldn't comment. 100 in the midwest with humidity is a lot worse than this weather.
>>77997231
niggers deserve death
>>77998957
>I didn't mean to plow into those pedestrians. I was just a little buzzed, lol.
>>77999105
>the legal limit
>basically one and a half drinks
how does the state's cock taste?
>>77999178
whats wrong with cruelty, libtard?
>>77998811
You're one of those faggots who cries for the poor "victim" who gets shot in the face while breaking into someone's home at 3am.
Your kind is worse for society than the criminals.
>>77998516
t. POG
>>77999261
Cruel and unusual is in the Bill of Rights dude. Let the courts hash it out properly.
Based on what I know of it, I think tent city is a fantastic solution to an obvious problem.
>>77999313
As long as you're hydrated, yeah it's pretty safe.
The heat isn't the only issue people have with this place. If it wasn't a prison for people who did next to nothing I'd reconsider my opinion on it.
>>77999341
said no buzzed person ever
>he fell for the MADD meme
way to give up basic Constitutional rights because of some Reefer Madness level scare tactics against drunk driving
>>77999368
>1.5 drinks
>you're not a woman with that requirement
Well whats the limit then? Huh? What's the max bav that a person should have that they're ok to drive?1.6? a 2? People at .06 can manage to crash into shit.
Are you upset cause it happened to you? Did you get sent in for a.08? Is daddy missing because he went on a beer run?
It still stands, the law is .08, and these fucks broek the law. Boo fucking Hoo
>>77999494
>the bill of rights
also known as "in defense of degeneracy"
>>77997593
Its a holding area dumbfuck meaning they have not been proven guilty. If they had gone through their due process then i would have no problem with this. Furthermore its been proven that when inmates are excessivley uncomfortable they tend to be more violent and disorderly which presents a hazard to both other inmates and the guards.
>>77998989
You can go to Tent City with just one DUI, esp without decent legal representation. That anon saying it's one week is full of shit, usually it's like a month or so and inmates can get work release if they have a job. Avg cost of a DUI in AZ is something like five grand in fines. But guess what? I think that's just fine. It's the law.
The food is shit and I heard his brother owns the overpriced snack machines, if you have money. But guess what? Don't drive drunk. Sorry dude. Food is gross but edible.
My question is if the CONDITIONS of the imprisonment, meaning the exposure to dangerous weather conditions, constitute an additional unjust punishment on top of the sentence? It seems like it sort of does and it also seems if someone were to get sick and/or die from heat related exposure, the responsibility for that would rest with the state and not the offender. I'd like someone to convince me otherwise.
>>77999744
due process is liberal and effeminate If you are under suspicion of a crime you are guilty.
>>77999690
>People at .06 can manage to crash into shit.
so do people at .00
amazing argument friendo
>americans get tortured without trial and talk shit about europeans not being allowed to say n1663r on the internet
>>77999754
so show me when in the history of tent city somebody has died due to the harsh elements
>>78000040
nothing wrong with torture without trial. courts are for liberal panises.
>>77999515
You stupid, fucking nigger. You think it's ok to get shit faced, and plow into cars on the 10fwy?
I have to deal with the aftermath of DUI's every fucking day. I have had to pull what's left of little kids out of wrecks caused by "buzzed" drivers. Yes I'm mad. If it were up to me, I'd bring back flogging, and the stock for assholes that DUI.
>>77999915
Yeah, but alchohol aenshances it.
You avoided the rest! What's the limit faggot? What is the problem with .08? You got caught didn't you? You're a slty little bitch cause you got caught drinking and driving right?
Get a fucking uber and don't have a higher risk of killing people like the illegal fucks that drink and drive and kill kids on their prom night.
>>77997231
There's a way you're actually meant to solve that.
The exposed parts of the tent get heated in the sun, and that heat gets passed off above and below it.
The brits had the same problem with the first generation of military jeeps that they had.
They eventually found out that the solution was really simple:
You just need a second roof. The second roof catches all the sunlight, diffuses the heat into the air above and below it, and that air isn't trapped within your structure.
>>78000137
if a kid dies due to a drunk driver the blame is on the kid for not getting out of the way.
>>78000073
Google it nigger. That shit's happened.
>>77999105
Isuppose you belive .08 is "drunk" or .16 for that matter. It very can be if you are uninitiated but to those who are initiated its nothing which isbwhy field sobriety tests are little more fair IMO
Maybe i feel that way just because tis saved my ass like three times, but it was in a rural area anyway.
>>77999690
Someone doesnt have friends or social engagements hat dont involve the internet
>>78000342
And which, pray tell, Constitutional right are you giving up?
>>78000094
Wow, that's such an interesting personal anecdote. I guess if we banned alcohol there would be no more accidents. Especially since most of them are cause by buzzed drivers that had two Miller Lites according to you.
>>78000358
> if you are uninitiated
>if you're not a fucking alchoholic
It's ok, the bottle really helps get over the separation anxiety right?
Seriously, there's a reason they picked a specific number, and if you don't agree with alchy, try to change it. In the mean time, I'll look at the asshole sin tent city and laugh at them because for at least the next year, their life includes a breathalizer on the car, and a special drivers license.
>>77999754
>My question is if the CONDITIONS of the imprisonment, meaning the exposure to dangerous weather conditions, constitute an additional unjust punishment on top of the sentence? It seems like it sort of does
Yes, all criminals should get ice cream, and cake, and naptime, and cable TV with 168 channels, and a foot massage.
That'll make sure they learned their lesson. Shit, Sheriff Joe should be legally required to take them all to Starbucks for Frappucinos every afternoon, on his own dime.
>OMG it was like HOT today!!! Cruelty!!
Fuck you. Road construction crews work outside in Phoenix year round. So do many others. The people in tent city sit on their asses, in the fucking shade of the tents.
Maybe Sheriff Joe should work on getting these fucks onto chain gangs.
Then whiney little bitches like you would really have something to complain about.
>>78000073
I don't think it has yet. I don't know if it will. But if it does, that's a slam dunk case for a decent trial lawyer and every time that department has to pay out a settlement, that's taxpayer money.
>>77997231
>criminals should have rights beyond not letting them die
yeah fuck off m8
>>77998466
Where you at in our great state of Arizona?
I agree but if it's 130 out like it was 120 in some places. Extra water should be given out. They don't deserve death.
>>78000696
look at this badass, all he needs is the State on his side to feel tough
>>78000696
Shit strawman tbqh polpham. Nice dodging of the question too.
>>77997231
I lived in the Mojave desert. 130 degrees wasn't abnormal. There's nothing unethical about it. Humans are evolved to be tropical animals. We can easily survive that kind of heat provided #1 we have sufficient water to drink, and #2 we are properly acclimatized to it.
>>78000517
Oh shit ya got me. I just jerk off to this Russian wood polishing site.
Really though, I work every day and goof off with my friends on the weekend. I actually have a decent social life. I just don't get shit faced every available day because it's not my thing.
Is there an option to avoid tent city but do longer time? I think the reason a lot of people pick tent city is due to the reduced sentence, but I'm not sure what that's for.
>>78000907
They gave ice pack and extra water all this past high heat weekend. They weren't mistreated.
>>78000676
Or you could just not get behind the wheel. It's not rocket science. If you have been drinking, don't drive.
>>77997231
>low-level offenders
>mostly DUI cases
Fuck drunk drivers. That is not a "low-level offender" to the thousands killed by them annually. There are roughly as many drunk driving deaths annually in the US as there are gun homicides.
>>78001042
Then fuck em, they fucked up, or got caught doing something they shouldn't.
Beside your not a true Arizonan if you die due to the heat.
>>78001055
let's ban all restaurants that serve alcohol unless they collect everyone's keys
>>78001182
>4 people died climbing squaw peak and camelback this past weekend
>all out of towners
Yup, people overestimate their ability in the heat. This is Blowdryer heat, not humid heat. Natives here know what's up.
>>78001185
If you can't handle waiting to get smashed or shit face at home, you shouldn't be ordering drinks when you have to drive. If you get caught fucking up on the road, then learn from it.
>>78000976
No but if you're unemployed, your sentence is shorter. 30 days with work release is really two months. No job just means you stay there the full 30 days. I've heard of people quitting bullshit jobs to just do that.
>>77997231
People are aware the law is harsh, but they decide to break the law, anyway. Why should I have any sympathy for these people?
They made a bet, they bet they could break the law and get away with it. They lost. That's that.
As long as people are made wholly and fully aware of the punishment they face for their crimes in advance, I have absolutely no qualms about any kind of punishment.
>>77999690
>People at .06 can manage to crash into shit
People at .00000 can manage to crash into shit. Is that the standard?
Listen, .08 BAC is so laughably low that lots of people wouldn't even feel it at all. Meanwhile, there's no way to really know. We don't have a digital tattoo on our foreheads that lets us check our BAC in the mirror. Did you have a glass of wine with dinner? How can you be sure you're not above .08 before you drive home?
Look, it's a rotten law that was rammed through because of moralizing old women in a time when there was such a thing as actual police discretion. Today, in the era where #BlackCrimesMatter has forced every cop everywhere to wear a camera at all times, they can't just toss your keys into the woods and tell you to fuck off to a hotel room and come back when you're sober enough to find them.
>>77997231
send them back
>>78001185
It's ok alchy, we understand where you're coming from. The bottle has a power over you. It's hard, but you can get the power back.
>>78001185
I don't know what you're so uptight about. The premise of our entire legal system is trust that a person knows how to act responsibly. There are plenty of reasons other than alcohol that would cause somebody to be unable to drive safely.
If you're so obviously unable to control the vehicle then it's important that somebody stops you. And if it's because you did something obviously stupid like get drunk then take your lumps. A lot of decent cops will let things slide depending on the situ.
>>78001304
>0.08
>smashed
>>77998957
Drunk drivers should be summarily executed.
Deal with it.
>>78001338
You have far more faith in your government than is warranted. The fact is that there are too many laws with too large a range of punishments for anyone to really know what they all are. Your standard, which seems so reasonable to you, is impossible to meet in our real world.
Arizona guy here. Stayed in tent city once. The heat isn't bad. The food will kill you. Also, the state animal control is next door. Couple times a week, they burn up the unwanted dogs and cats. When the wind blows just right, nasty smell over tent city. After staying there, I had new found respect for sheriff Joe.
>>78001091
Agreed. And the punishment should be severe so as to act as a real deterrent. But that's not the question being asked.
>>78001420
>drinking any amount and driving
>not beign a piece of shit
Pick one. I'll give you a hint, Tent City is full of people who chose option 1. I have no sympathy for DUI recipients. They knowingly fucked up.
>>78001304
If your only at .08 and fucking up driving and get caught, tough luck.
>>78000751
>arguing in the hypothetical
No.
>>78000690
Love the ad hom buddy but you fail to make arguments.
Some people have naturally higher tolerances and the "alcoholic" label is just another attempt at name calling by butt blasted MADD women.
Funny how how everyone has a different definition of that term.
The standard was based off a flawed experiment. Ive seen the study, I have a DWI and can tell you most people just drive anyway without the breathalyzer until they can get their license back without it. I got my DL back in 6 months and drove the entire time prior.
AZ's dry heat is nothing. 130 here feels like 100 any where else. Its lovely.
>>77997902
>130
>dry heat
>not that bad
Nigga come down here and sit in the heat for 5 minutes in the shade or better yet turn in your oven and pretend to be a Jew for 5 minutes and tell me "it's just a dry heat lol"
>>78001185
Or you could take a little personal responsibility, and call a cab. Who am I kidding? That would take away from your drinking money. Funny thing, those "2" beers you had, just cost you your license, your car, and maybe your job.
>>78001293
Stay in till twilight, and then do your shit, or early as fuck.
I live in Mojave we only got to 111 today. Bull head got it at 120. It was fucking hot today.
>>78000938
>strawman
No, faggot. I've lived in Phoenix. Went to college there. Had one year with over a hundred days in a row over 100 degrees. Highest temperature while I was there was 129.
You know how I payed for college? i worked as a flagman on road construction every summer. Made 4 times the pay as any other job I could get being a fuck with no degree and little experience. Normal day was 10 hours, but I was excited for the 14-16 hour days when they came. Extra pay.
And, your faggot ass is trying to tell me that sitting on your ass, in the fucking shade, is cruel and unusual punishment.
No. It's not. And never will be, princess.
>>78001535
Look at this neo-Prohibitionist piece of shit, wasting millions in taxpayer money, tearing up our Constitution, and for nothing. Driving after one beer is bad? Go fuck yourself.
>>78001629
It's really not that bad. If you have a bit of shade and plenty of water you won't even feel yourself sweat.
>>78001447
It's actually pretty easy not to break the law.
In fact, as stupid as the justice system is, you have to go out of your way to break the law. It just doesn't happen randomly by chance.
It is a cognizant act. Speeding, DUI, murder, jaywalking. The person had to make a mental evaluation of risk versus reward. They lost the bet.
I'm not going to sympathise with someone who holds their existence in such low regard that they play for such low stakes as petty crime.
>>78001629
I worked all day outside, if you take care of your self and drink water, eat food. Don't over work. You'll be fine. Get plenty of shade though.
>>77997231
Arizona doesn't fuck around with drunk drivers. Act right and you wont have to deal with the sheriff's abuse
>>78001780
this
It's damn hot but nowhere near 130. High is 115
>>78001568
What are your opinions on climate change and failing infrastructure and shit pensions and reduced benefits for jail employees that have no vested interest in keeping a prisoner alive if there's no personal consequence for it?
This isn't hypothetical at all.
>>77997231
I'm against punishment being arbitrary. If you want to sentence a man to fry his brains out, then fucking do it, but don't sentence a man to detention and then fry his ass because you don't have AC. It's like up here in Canada, sometimes prisoners freeze to death because the prison's heat didn't work properly. You could say they deserve it, and I'm pro death penalty, but I would disagree with you. What if the baby raper survived the cold but the guy who got thrown in jail for a bar fight died?
It's retarded and shameful.
>>78001778
I do the same but 130 is still hot
>>78001727
But, that isn't so. The argument's buried in this video somewhere if you like to look for it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
but the point is that there are so many laws, and new ones are being made all the time, and few are repealed or expire, so that it is literally impossible to even know what they all are. If you cannot know what the law is, you don't know whether you're breaking it or not.
Alternatively, this book makes the argument
https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229
That the average person commits three felonies every day without even knowing it.
Sorry, anon, but your idealized view of how the nation works is just not in keeping with the facts.
for the curious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs6hUUL-5DM
>>78001677
I was in Bullhead today. It fucking sucked. The river does not help at all.
>>78001705
>wasting millions in taxpayer money
Tent city is dirt cheap my nigga
>tearing up our Constitution
Then got o the lgislature and get the law reformed fuckwit. For the time being, that's the limit.
> and for nothing
Nah, I want an end to this shit:http://freedomdaily.com/prom-teen-killed-previously-deported-illegal-alien/
And harsh dui and immigration is a great way to fucking start.
I'm off to bed AZ bros, have a good one, stay out the heat, and don't let this limp dick commie fuck try to sway our great state into changing a god damn thing.
Soo many pigs and bootlickers, so little discussion.
>>78001561
>he has never heard of checkpoints
>they can pull you over and search you with literally no evidence of wrongdoing
>>78001780
>>78001846
>don't look at me funny and I won't shoot you
great government you have there you ubercucks
>>78002019
rofl, wut??
if you're talking all laws ever written on any subject... maybe. Like I don't know what the law says about building a hydrogen fueled rocket, and if I tried to build one tomorrow I'd probably break a shit-ton of laws. That's why if you're getting into a career or opening a business you learn the laws pertinent to that business.
As for criminal law, you're just talking shit, bruh. Everyone knows criminal law...everyone knows what is and what is not a crime. If you don't, you're astoundingly retarded and deserve to be thrown in jail for breaking it.
>>78002054
'night Johnboy, stay cool.
>>78001698
And you could go inside at some point. Or into an air-conditioned truck. You're not in an outdoor jail. Do you even know what strawman means? This isn't about your experiences.
Answer the question. Would the state be responsible for a heat related death?
>>78001778
>>78001847
The part everyone is missing is that it was that hot INSIDE the tents due to how they are constructed. The other option is out in the sun all day, which can also kill you, esp if you are not in the best of health, which I imagine is at least some of the Tent City population.
>>77999744
If it's unethical to hold someone without due process then it doesn't matter where you hold them.
>>78002390
It wasn't that hot inside the tents though. The high for the day was 118, in the sun.
>>78001879
Look kids, an actual position. Thx leafbro.
>>78002329
>everyone knows what is and what is not a crime
But anon, that is patently untrue. You have never looked up the criminal code in your life. How the hell do you know what it says and doesn't say? You just *assume* you know what it means because you've never been arrested, and you have been encultured to believe that certain things are wrong.
>>77998957
Get a grip fag.
>>78002548
I saw a news segment, hence the thread. It was 130 or whatever in the tents. It was hotter inside than out in the sun. They're like army tarps put up wrong. I'll see if I can find it.
>those Soviet gulags in sybria were the works of a backwords and evil empire
>haha, don't do the crime if you can't do the crime. Tents, boiling summer, overcrowded? Pshh. You're lucky you have a bed and a pot of gruel!
>americucks
>
>>78002540
You have to hold them somewhere to ensure they are present for the process (arraignment) and aware of their obligations and coming charges.
>>78002106
Underrated post
>>78002712
what kind of a dumb piece of shit has gone his whole life without reading the criminal code? Have you never bothered to read your constitution either? No wonder your country is the laughing stock of the world.
I'm not you, and I'm not like you, and don't assume anyone else is like you. Some of us are responsible men that take our lives seriously.
Yes, I have read the criminal code, many times, and yes I have read our constitution. It really doesn't take that long. I doubt the American CC and constitution are much longer. You're just a lazy fuck.
>>78002828
Its mostly young-uns who havent had much life experience or cops who are brainwashed into thinking the CJ system can do no wrong and the law is absolute.
Worked with some ex cops i know how they think... that superiority complex wears off when they leave the force...sometimes
>>78002828
Don't forget the just-world fallacy bullshit going on ITT.
None of the people advocating tent city here give a damn about justice for crimes-- they just want to see people they're prejudiced against suffer and try to hold up their aforementioned just-world delusions at the same time
>>77997734
My friend killed himself because he got his 4th DUI he would have went to prison for a while.
>>78002548
>>78002804
Here it is. Joe makes his arguments and they're good ones and about what you'd expect. The clip itself is kind of retarded, the prisoner complaining about Gatorade is a retard, but the temp shown was 129 under the tarp.
http://www.12news.com/news/local/valley/hundreds-endure-record-heat-inside-tent-city/250920842
>>77997231
>Low level offenders
These are retards who get multiple DUI's. As in third strike offenders. They dont learn, and they're normally dregs of society.
>>78002918
USC alone it over 700lbs of books. I can tell you I've read relevant statues before, but you can't expect that even lawyer will know the law.
Constitution's a good quick read though. Highly recommended even if it's not likely that you'd ever actually use it beyond understanding what this country is supposed to be about.
>>78002390
>And you could go inside at some point. Or into an air-conditioned truck
No, pussy, I couldn't. Sitting indoors under AC wasn't the job I was being payed for doing.
I stood on the side of the road and turned a sign from 'Stop' to 'Slow' when the person on the radio said to allow traffic through.
You brought your own water. Personally, I brought 4 frozen gallon jugs every day.
I didn't have to take piss breaks because it came out as sweat.
The only time in the shade was a half hour long lunch break, and the shade was provided by a parked construction vehicle.
I did that job because I could make enough in the summer to not have to work during school.
It wasn't easy. It wasn't comfortable. It was miserable.
But it WASN'T cruel and unusual.
And neither is sitting in the shade in tent city.
They are provided food and water and ice and beds and basic shelter. And medical treatment. You whine like the prisoners are being turned into lampshades.
They're not.
>>77998127
If they were really disabled the VA would be paying them.
>>78003367
Shit b8, if not you're an idiot. There's plenty of one strike people in there. That's part of the point, that's where people like that are held. More serious offenders are typically indoors, awaiting trial or prison sentencing.
>>78003174
Very true, they dont think it could ever happen to them.
What they dont know is that a few words from a jilted or angry woman could land them in this very situation with little or no evidence.
>>78003453
WOULD THE STATE BE...oh forget it.
>>78003378
holy shit, you don't need to read all case law and all precedents to understand what is and what is not a crime, you dense motherfucker. Follow the criminal code. Case law is for cases that push the law and blur the lines.
If you steal, rape, and murder, and then argue that you didn't know what you did was wrong because you didn't read all 700 books of all case law ever, the judge will die of laughter, and then you'll have his murder on your head as well.
You need to get your autism in check.
>>78002856
>You have to hold them somewhere to ensure they are present for the process (arraignment) and aware of their obligations and coming charges.
So it is ethical to hold people that have not been convicted of a crime, and have not even been given a chance to speak to a judge.
How long?
A week? A month? Years?
>>78003453
Playing the devils advocate here because ive been in and currently am in the situation you deacribe and can agree to a point.
Not everyone is as tough, healthy, or acclimated to such conditions as you or I.
If they have not been convicted yet then could they at least get a mister or swamp cooler ?
>>77997231
Not hot enough for those criminal bastards.
>>78003826
Calm down leaf, I'm agreeing with you. Pretty much every post in this thread I've made is that we live under the expectation that people are going to behave normally and when they don't then it's important that they get dealt with and in many cases it's not going to be a walk in the park. And if mistakes are made then we've got a system meant to be able to deal with that.
>>78003839
You speak to a JP within 24 hours usually.
>>78003722
>WOULD THE STATE BE...oh forget it.
Go ahead. Good discussions are hard to find.
Yes, if the STATE ignored a prisoner in medical distress, they should be held responsible.
In fact, I think the perfect sentence would be to send the one whose negligence caused that harm to, gasp and swoon, tent city.
I never understood parents who sent their children to their room for punishment. All your shit is in your room.
My dad sent me to his room for punishment.
>>78003916
Anon's not wrong though. 143 replies and I've only counted one answer to the question. Be the /pol/ you want to see.
>>78003826
I severely doubt you have read any of it. You're just full of it. Moreover, it is not reasonable to expect everyone in your society to read the entirety of the law.
Often, case law does significantly change statutory law.
But even if that weren't so, the laws are not written to be easily understood. They're written in hypertechnical lawyer jargon. This is done quite on purpose: they are not of by and for the people, they are of by and for the lawyers. That keeps those people employed.
So even if everyone did read the law, they could not be reasonably expected to meaningfully understand it. It's not written to be understandable to the public.
It's their fault for committing crimes in a desert.
>>78004170
It's probably like being grounded. I never fucked up enough to get grounded in the first place, but no doubt that would not have been my sentence because that wouldn't really have been much of a punishment for me.
Send me to Tent City? I'd be horrified. But you better believe I'd think twice about ever being sent there again.
>>78004220
I have read the constitution. Every bit of it. Many, many, many times.
I have read the criminal code, every bit of it, at least once, and many sections of it I've read several times.
It's really not that long. You can easily read both of those in a day if you wanted to.
I find it sad that you're trying to call me out on this, as if it's a heroic thing to do. We're talking several hours of reading. Is several hours of reading too much for you? You're okay living in a society without understanding anything about it?
Not only have I read the criminal code and constitution, I've also read other bodies of law such as the fire code, because I'm a tax-paying home owner.
Is everyone here a fucking NEET?
>>78004039
>acclimated to such conditions as you or I.
I grew up in the mountains of Colorado.
Highest temperature I ever experienced regularly before that was around 78 degrees.
I was hardly 'acclimated'.
You don't prepare the road for the child, you prepare the child for the road.
>>78004220
Actually in my state there's a state law that says all the state laws have to be written using normal language so that any peasant can understand them. Pretty cool.
And it turns out those parts of the state law that I've read are in fact easily understandable.
>>77997231
But it's a dry heat, man.
>>77999515
I've seen drunk drivers crash their cars in spectacular fashion.
The cheeky chappie concertinaed his car into an island of lights. He was doing some speed, it tore up all of the fences. There was quite a it of blood. The chap got out, retrieved his wine and then ran off into the night.
>>77997734
In just about any state, if you know you are screwed simply do not submit to a breathalyzer. This automatically suspends your drivers license for a year but it is a 100% guarantee that you won't get stuck with a DUI.
Usually you have to get caught driving drunk 2-3 times to face any jail time. Regardless, it is an expensive thing to get stuck with.
>>78004280
/Thread
Just follow Trump and everything will be alright
NO CIGARETTES
NO DRUGS
NO ALCOHOL
>>78004170
Great. Thanks. So if a heat related death...wait you still answered it in your way. I didn't say anything about ignoring medical distress. I said CAUSING medical distress. Is the state responsible for caring for its prisoners? If so, is a heat related death that is CAUSED by the state, meaning by the conditions of the prisoner's imprisonment, also the state's responsibility? Is the state responsible for that prisoner's death? If so, why on earth are we even taking the chance of that happening? If state responsible, then state guilty of murder and the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Beyond it being a mockery of the law, which I believe in as the foundation of our society, it's also a HUGE lawsuit just waiting to happen, paid for in whole by citizens not implicit in the meting out of that punishment in the first place.
>>78004711
NO PROOF
I love Trump man but i know he had to be hitting some booger sugar and single malt scotch at least once.
The punishment involved with going to prison should be the fact you are removed from society. Anything that is unnecessarily cruel isnt needed
>>78004417
Worst punishment I ever got as a child was from my mother. She told me "You're going to get a spanking, Later".
Later was 6 hours later. 6 hours is an eternity to a 8 year old. I only remember that spanking because I thought about it for six hours straight.
Parents have been neglecting their duties for too long.
>>78004695
Not Arizona. They can detain you in a cell and take a blood sample. Pretty sure you have to consent but I bet it's not that hard to convince a guilty drunk.
>>78004182
How about not being a faggot and accept we have laws in place? Literally a dindu.
>>78005108
I had to weight for Dad to come home bro, and he had a special "big black belt" that he used on all of us, and we had to do the counting outloud phsychologically fucking whoever was next and dont even think about padding up... you would be discovered and it would be far worse.
>>78005108
shit nigga, that's brutal
>>78005108
Yeah, delayed punishment is a real mindfuck if you know it's going to happen. To be applied very judiciously for sure.
>>78005412
lol here come the belt stories again. I don't even remember getting it, but I do remember him snapping the belt and listening to my siblings get it first.
>>77999883
Bootlicking and sucking authoritarian cocks is quite effeminate.
>>77997734
something like this happened to me
I pulled up to a checkpoint after a night at the club, but as soon as we rolled down the window I started yelling at one of the chicks in the back seat about not wearing her seatbelt and the cops chuckled and let me through
>>77997734
DUI offenses are nigger-tier anon
>>77998432
just nod your head very slightly, like body language, so only the cop can see your affirmative response/acknowledgement
>>77997734
In canuck land if you refuse the breathalizer youre basically admitting guilt by law, its fucked
>>78004999
It is plainly visible from the trips on this post that the content of it is valid.
>>78004956
>I said CAUSING medical distress.
That's a silly idea.
If living in Phoenix CAUSES medical distress, then why do over 3 million people choose to live there?
Many native tribes lived in the Phoenix area for hundreds of years. I'd bet most of them didn't have AC, Starbucks, cable TV, or even ice for most of the year.
I'd even bet that most who live there now don't have those things.
Why do you believe that committing a crime should grant more rights?
Simple maintenance. That's what the residents of tent city recieve. The basics.
Wrongful arrest? Sue later. Not guilty? Sue later, for less reward.
Why do you believe that the first man to throw a punch is an innocent angel, and the man who punches back is a demon from hell?
>>78006032
Jesus. I would break each of those down one by one but at this point I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled. Well done.
>>78005412
>I had to weight for Dad to come home bro, and he had a special "big black belt" that he used on all of us, and we had to do the counting outloud phsychologically fucking whoever was next and dont even think about padding up... you would be discovered and it would be far worse.
That's why the Mom story stands out to me. My dad had a spanking belt. And, mom made me remember her bitchass spanking for years longer with a little psychological trickery.
She improvised. She knew that if we were acting like retards when dad got home, our spanking would be nothing compared to hers.
>>78006707
Didn't mean to overwhelm you, cupcake.
Just focus on the last one.
>Why do you believe that the first man to throw a punch is an innocent angel, and the man who punches back is a demon from hell?
>>77997231
did these people break the law?
>>77999313
This. Live in Scottsdale and 113 on my shaded porch isn't bad. Better than dripping sweat with 93 temp and 95% humidity.
>>78006780
Moms feeble grip and her rage induced poor aim meant somtimes she hit you in he back or worse she left go of half the belt and the buckle slung around and hit you in the nuts. At least dad was consistent.
>>78007039
Don't believe that at all or anything else you wrote. I just believe that the law should be just, otherwise we live in a zoo and not a civilized society. Anybody with a conscience should believe this, personal politics and memery aside. The state is responsible for those it tries and convicts. You can deprive a man his freedom when he is convicted of breaking the law, and should, but then the law becomes his one true compass. His punishment is the thing he must continue to live by, for that is what the state, as well as the rest of us, have told him is fair and just. You can't just add further punishment on top of that without a proper reason to do so.
Or else why not just kill everyone we arrest? Clearly it's faster.
>>78007579
Kek.
I think half the reason spankings from Mom happened hours later was more for her to get her emotions under control than it was to make us think about the punishment.
One time during a family Easter picnic, my grandfather looked at my mother and said "Leave them children alone. You're the one who earned a spanking."
She went pale, and we left early.
She knew she fucked up, and she knew he was serious.
He gave her a spanking that Christmas, eight months later. She was 35.
>>78008092
>I just believe that the law should be just
Just doesn't mean comfortable. Just doesn't mean balanced.
If the punishment for stealing a $1 candy bar was paying $1, everyone would steal. Why not? Worst that can happen is paying for what you stole.
Sometimes, prison is more to keep you away from the rest of us than it is to 'Teach you a lesson'.
If prison is a happy place full of unicorns shitting rainbows, I should probably shoot you in the face until you stop moving when you break into my home.
That'll keep me from worrying about when you'll get relased frim prison and try to break in again. It'll also keep my friends and neighbors safe.
Prison shouldn't be a safe space filled with puppies and hugs. It should be a place no one ever wants to go again.
>>77997231
Sandniggers survived in tents in the hot desert for thousands of years.
If it's good enough for them it's good enough for a bunch of illegal beaners with DUI charges.
>>77999692
>>77999883
>>78000092
>>78000259
Saudi or best Korean immigrant?
>>77997231
You go to jail for DUI? Holy fuck, America is pretty much North Korea
>>78010429
>best Korean
Best Koreans don't worry about pronouns, faganon.
Best Koreans don't have to report to the Commander in Leaf.
>>78011497
>holy sheeit prison don't be video games and feet massages?
No. No, they aren't, roofucker.
>Muh CentreLink
Foster's. It's bogan for Bud, M8.
>>78011497
I don't personally know anybody who went to jail for a DUI. It of course depends on the area and the particular cop or cops, and sometimes there is some hassle and a lawyer involved, but generally speaking you wouldn't expect more than sobering up in the drunk tank at worst.
>>78011497
>>78012970
Assuming you didn't do something really fucked, are basically a nigger, and don't have a history of problems, that is. In other words, if you just did something stupid enough to get caught.
>>77997231
Learn to law you faggot. While in custody you lose most of your rights as a citizen. Not everyone is not guilty. If these criminals didn't want to be there then they shouldn't have broke the law. Stop with your Liberal Wonderland bullshit.
>>78001629
Tucson here, its not bad if you arent literally retarded and dont drink any water
>>77999744
It's not strictly a holding area uou dumb fuck. People serve their sentences there.
t. Someone born and raised in Arizona that also had people I know serve sentences there.
>>77999313
the fuck it is faggot. i've been here my whole life. i'll take humidity any day over this shit.
>>77999754
one dui is a fucking joke of a sentence you retarded faggot. Most people go to work during the day and check in at the county jail at night to sleep.
>>78000094
seriously, shut the fuck up you goddamn tryhard faggot
>>78001055
In order for that to happen, we need to demilitarize the police as well as take away the fear campaign of DUIs. My really close friend who's from Nigeria says DUIs are non existent there because everyone just knows not to do it. There's no campaigns teaching the dangers, no DUI checkpoints, none of that shit. He's never heard of drinking and driving until he came here. My buddy from Suriname says the same thing.
Didnt read entire thread but AZ here and iirc tent city halves your sentence and its by choice. And its only available to non violent minimal security offenses. (Dui, possession, that sorta shit)
>>78018715
>nigerian says he's never heard of drinking and driving
>choose to live in the literal desert
>WTF it's so hot tho????
What were u expecting
>>78001535
I'm an alcoholic. Even though I quit drinking, they say I'll be one forever. Though I agree with your sentiment, the fact of the matter is that no matter what laws are passed, no one can be forced to quit. Look at the punishment for murder, people still do it. Look at the punishment for personal heroin use. People still do it. Look at the punishment for theft. People still do it. Even in countries where the punishment is incredibly severe for even petty crimes... Guess what? People still do it. You get my point.
The fact is, until a meteor hits this forsaken rock, people are going to be assholes. Fear of punishment isn't enough. I'm not saying to have laws in place but I'm definitely saying that once everything isn't based on fear then maybe it will be better. But that will never happen.
>>78001629
Drink fucking water you privileged, spoiled, weak willed faggot. How is that hard?
>>78019164
I know what you're thinking. But Nigerians are very, very smart and very well mannered. He is truly one of the best people I've ever met. Better than almost everyone I met while in the marines as well. He didn't need the military of American values to be an honest and hardworking man. That shit is comma sense over there. Just like it used to be here in the USA.
>>78002828
>millions of people worked to death for having opinions is equivalent to annoying some illegal immigrants
ok
>>78019320
Arizonan here. You can drink as much water as you want, it doesn't fucking matter. The asphalt compounds the heat so it literally feels like when you open an over to put something in it. Just walking from your car to the store entrance is brutal. It's why murders go up during the summer here. The heat fucks with people's head, I'm sure there's a study to prove that.
>>78003643
No thanks, I'm not a retard.
>>77998466
>>78000907
greetings my fellow AZ bretheren
>>78013095
"Why don't you walk in the absolute straightest line imaginable dumb fuck?! How come you can't be as good of a slave as me?!"
That's basically what you sound like. I'm not pardoning the stupidity that it takes to actually drink and drive, but humans are gonna human. No law will ever change that.
>>78004182
Hm? Tons and tons and TONS of people have answered his question, mostly in the affirmative.
Answers that hurt your feelings are still answers, bro.
The question was "is this part of an ethical society?" and the answer, for many polsters, is "yes, justice is an essential part of an ethical society."
For others, "we must treat criminals better than law abiding citizens" is the answer.
>>78008092
>I just believe that the law should be just
Agree 100%, and that's why we need tent city. A strong sense of justice is what keeps society from becoming a zoo.
>>77997231
Isn't this an obvious violation of humans rights ?
>>78019470
interesting
>>78019663
I am an Arizonan too. I don't have sympathy for people who refuse to drink water. On the other hand, I have great sympathy for those who have loved ones killed by drunk drivers and illegal immigrants. Condemning criminals to... having to deal with the life of a soldier or trucker is not cruel or unusual.
If drinking water is too hard for you, then don't commit crimes.
>>78000094
>how many more kids have to die before assault beer cans are banned and regulated?
That's what you sound like. A liberal panzy.
>>78003453
>Personally, I brought 4 frozen gallon jugs every day.
>I didn't have to take piss breaks because it came out as sweat.
what
I don't think it works that way
>>78020047
No, you fucked up.
I went years ago when I got charged with possession (dudeweed) and my options were 1 month in jail, and I couldn't leave for work or 2 weeks in tent, with release to go to work. I served my sentence in the middle of july, it sucked dick, but it wasnt inhumane at all.
>>77997231
wtf
>>78020531
It does in a dry heat, trust me.
>>78019840
strangely, murderous illegals and retarded drunk drivers are a lot harder to avoid than cops
>>77997231
I've read an article about that place, if what it said is true then it's torture. The article was by vice though so I'm very skeptical of it.
>>77997231
>work construction
>put in a full day outdoors in 120
they have protocols, don't be a faggot
>>78020760
Sheriff Joe is basically a poster boy enemy of the state for being anything less than a shape-shifting Rabbi. Take what the media reports with good helping of salt.
>>77997231
I don't see what's unethical. Do you reckon they should get piña coladas as well?
>>78004956
>if a prisoner dies because he wasn't treated fairly on a particularly hot day :^(
let's review why he is a prisoner. is it for breaking the law? why didnt he just choose a different day to get arrested?
>>78020613
Can confirm. Inna military, marching with full gear and face paint in 30+ celsius weather. No piss breaks, about 5 liters of water consumed.
Nothing sucks more than walking around in gumboots when it's dry and hot.
ITT: "Le the law doesn't matter because I don't like degenerates XD"
>>77998957
>calling some one a fascist
>on /pol/
o i am laffin
>>77997829
I put up with weather like that when I was training in Lackland AFB, in San Antonio, from June to October.
All the inmates need to do is sit in the shade and hydrate.
Faggot
