How do we fix income inequality in America?
>>77965428
why do you think it would ever be equal?
>>77965428
you work hard faggot
>>77965616
not equal, just more fair.
the gap between the rich and the poor is at its largest since the great depression
>>77965428
So we outsource a shit ton of labor in our tech sector overseas and important a shit ton of nearly free labor from the third world and you're wondering why the people who sell their labor on the free market are struggling and the people who buy the cheap labor are prospering? Are you retarded?
>>77965864
Import* on mobile
Capital isn't cheap kids.
I can't remember who said it but the expression "it's difficult to make a 10 dollars into a million dollars, and inevitable to turn a million dollars into a billion dollars."
The people that get this rich do so because they earned the cash and grew it competently.
Also how does the income inequality thing work anyway? Do these morons think the rich are somehow taking money from everyone else? (Suppose tax but they pay that)
>>77965428
> implying people are poor because of income inequality
> implying whores who get creampied by Tyrone, drop out of high school,and have five illegitimate children with absent fathers are poor because of the evil 1%
Marxism. Not even once.
>>77965428
got an updated sheet?
desu i am in the 10% and i dont feel like it.
>>77965541
>How to make income inequality even worse
>>77965428
Stop importing millions of dirt broke brown people.
>>77966082
>The people that get this rich do so because they earned the cash and grew it competently.
Or maybe they have institutionalized advantage and many are born into the wealth? Just an idea.
>>77965428
you don't, stalin
>>77965428
stop taking illegal immigrants to have higher salaries. Your middle class is shrinking into Poland tier and low class is like Africa supported by Red cross.
>>77966666
Those digits don't lie. Immigration kills the middle class. Just bringing the third world here.
>>77965428
Even the poorest people in the US lead better lives that kings just two centuries ago. Stop being a cuck.
>>77965864
>hurr I don't understand economics
A rising tide lifts all boats.
stop shopping at walmart and shit and spend a few more cents in local businesses instead.
>>77966467
So you have no real argument other than you're butthurt someone has more money than you even though it has no true impact on your life.
>>77966666
The truth of the satanic quints is upon you
>>77966666
PRAISE KEK
>>77965428
the same way we solve everything
vote trump
Stop outsourcing labor, stop favoring international corporations and financiers over American workers. Stop trying to make a job market in which fifty men compete for a single grain of rice.
>>77965428
Wealth and Asset Tax, the government can own a percentage of the wealth and when that asset is sold or transferred the people get their cut. Seem like the fairest way to tackle the super rich problem.
>>77965428
>How do we fix income inequality in America?
Nuke Amerifartland?That way everyone will be equally dead and money won't be a problem.
>>77966666
This, desu. It's the responsibility of business to incentivize workers to enter their fields, there is not ever a "shortage of workers" unless there was recently a war, famine or plague. You have to offer the training and wages that bring workers.
Foreign labor is cheating our country and businesses that do that shouldn't be able to operate in the country.
>>77967073
It does have an impact though. They control the means of production, which needs to be collectively owned in order to end gross distortions of unearned wealth. The parasites who live off the labour of others.
>>77965428
Income inequality must be the biggest fucking red-herring in politics.
You're life isn't shit because of the inequality, although it is related. Your life is shit because those rich people got rich by cutting costs by lobbying the government to make it easy to outsource and to let in as many people as possible in order to cut labour costs. If there was still plenty of decent paying stable jobs no one would give a fuck about income inequality.
Fix the laws to stop working for foreigners and big business and income inequality will sort itself out.
>>77965428
Never as long as we have unregulated immigration, and a massive welfare state. all people are not equally capable intellectually or physically.
>>77968383
Doesn't welfare help those at the very bottom though? Lol.
Also how will regulating immigration stop the top .1% of America from having more wealth than the bottom 90% of Americans?
>>77965428
> how do we fix income inequality
require EVERYONE to work as hard and invest as intelligently as "the 1%" for just as many generations
sadly this will require a great deal of forced labour and culling of the weak
i hope you dont object, but i really dont care if you do.
>>77965428
Easy, get a skill that pays more.
>>77969009
>the 1% worked really hard to get where they are!
lmfao if you actually fall for this meme.
>>77967585
So the rich don't have 2 work 2 keep the business going? They didn't have 2 break their backs 2 start that corporation? Pay 4 u own goddamn big screen TV!
>>77969009
It doesn't work like that. The whole world is going to become the 1%?
You don't. You increase income mobility.
>>77965428
Build
>>77965428
>fix income inequality
what's wrong with it?
if you actually just care about the poor, then the correct question is: "How do we improve the prosperity for the poor?"
My answer to that would be that the poor are doing better relative to their ancestors because purchasing power is higher than historically. I think education, not necessarily schooling, to impart knowledge of personal finance and how debt and interest works would help them more than anything. Making the market more free with less regulations would help them as well.
>>77969415
>he still thinks the majority of the 1% got there without hard work
poorfags, when will they learn?
>>77969009
You cannot be serious
You think the 1% got there because they worked hard? Or invested 'intelligently'? They would be very proud to see good goy actively disrupting discourse that might touch on how plutocratic exploitation rearranges governments to support the 1% at the expense of everyone else.
and HE DOES IT FOR FREE
stop importing low IQ people which makes inequality seem larger than it actually is?
Has any country gotten close?
>>77965428
>>77965841
that's not a bad thing though
>>77967585
work smart not hard dumbass
>>77965428
Got a job?
Gonna pay your bills and shit?
Tell you what - the more you make, the more we'll take in taxes to buy votes from professional leeches.
Good?
>>77970908
>attacking Americans on the bottom instead of the top .1% who own as much wealth as the bottom 90% of Americans
Why.
>>77965428
Acknowledge the uneven distribution of intelligence and recognize that it is a heritable trait unlike height, which is why our increasingly meritocratic, knowledge-based economy is producing the rapidly accelerating, intervention-resistant socioeconomic inequality that it is.
Our current economy can be summed up as being as if we were relying on professional basketball, football, and heavyweight rowing as the sole sources of economic opportunity, but it was politically incorrect to acknowledge that people were of varying heights and that having tall parents was the determining factor of whether someone was tall themselves.
Now, we're left wondering why ~90% of the population is being locked out of the post-2008 economic gains, and it's all because we're afraid of the truth and the implications it carries for our economic planning and regulatory climate.
>>77971772
*Not unlike height
>>77970591
>getting scammed on a massive scale
>not a bad thing
>>77966666
>immigration kills middle class and lowers salaries
Not neccesarily doubting this, but are there any studies that show this to be true?
>>77971772
It's not the fact that inequality exists you strawmanning bastard. It's the level of inequality and the fact that it's increasing steadily all the time.
If you don't think there's a cohesive scam in pic related you are naive as fuck. The filthy rich have bought your government and have used it to siphon wealth from you to them. It's not rocket science.
>>77971772
>>77971772
Nothing to see here
>>77971772
This is totally fair what're you entitled lmao
>>77965428
Mandatory birth control for poor people.
>>77971772
>>77971772
America is not a meritocracy. Far from it, actually.
Most of the people on top are there simply because they won the genetic lottery. They're born into wealth and privilege.
>>77971772
Hmmm
>>77965428
Deport jews
>>77971772
This is how it always was peasant, stay in the precariat. Rich people would never fuck over poor people to make more money.
>>77971772
Really makes you think...
>>77971772
>>77972021
>>77972073
>>77972126
>>77972191
>>77972279
>>77972383
>>77972490
You're being fucked over.
Honestly if you can't see what's happening here you have been brainwashed to a North Korea level of delusion about your living situation.
>>77965841
>not equal, just more fair.
at what point do you stop and say yes, this is fair?
Do you not think a man who has created a product everyone uses in their daily lives deserves the wealth he has created?
>>77965428
How exactly is it an issue that some people have more money than others if they didn't acquire it through illegal means?
Every single person is different and unequal so it makes sense that some will naturally acquire more money than others.
>>77972769
Your boss keeps giving himself a raise, tripling it eventually and none of the workers get a raise. Is this fair to you? Does a light not go off in your head and say "Hmm, maybe I'm being fucked over..."
Aren't entertainers/actors partly to blame here?
Those at the tip top of their industry don't produce anywhere near enough jobs for the money they take in. An entrepreneur hires workers to get their product or service out. An entertainer or actor does their job or sells their brand/likeness and nobody else gets a piece of that besides them and their management company.
>>77972955
>The McDonald's CEO got his salary super-sized. The fast food chain's chief executive, Steve Easterbrook, brought home a whopping $7.91 million last year — a 368% raise over his 2014 salary of $1.69 million —while low-wage McDonald's workers are striking around the country for a livable income.
>1.9 million employees
Give them their dollar
>>77973123
Is this a serious question
No, the filthy rich have bought your government and are using public policy to siphon wealth from the bottom 99% of Americans. It's verifiable.
https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf
>>77973014
But you have yet to give even a single reason why this trend is bad or unjustified.
>>77973123
>Those at the tip top of their industry don't produce anywhere near enough jobs for the money they take in
Then why would they be paid it? If they didnt produce enough wealth to justify why they are paid what they are paid why would anyone keep them?
>>77970216
this
>>77973360
Because you're being fucked over. Where before average Americans wages were increasing with productivity, then they stagnated while almost all of the new profit went to the top.
It's called a scam and it's a massive one.
>>77970484
venezuela is pretty close
>>77965428
>America's bottom 90% lives better off than the top 50%of countries with lesser inequalities issues
>how do we fix income inequality
You don't
Daily reminder that income inequality is a farce brought up by Marxists trying to explain why capitalism hasn't collapsed on it's own and that they rather getting everyone to live equally poor than having a society where meritocacry dictates how far you get while some REALLY small minority gets supper rich because most countries will crony the fuck out of them into stardoom.
>>77965428
Simple you can't fix a situation where nothing is wrong
>>77973360
Because if we kept doing things before this scam started we wouldn't be dealing with shit like this.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-handle-a-500-surprise-bill/
Fewer international students taking up sought-after seats that create graduates that can contribute to a job market?
Nah. Expecting state programs to favor fucking citizens in need over Ching Chongs from rich families who probably forged their transcripts anyway? That's racist. I raff at your sub 3.8 gpas, white people.
>>77973653
The irony of a board who vehemently rejects the idea of being manipulated taken advantage of and exploited completely defending being the bad end of one of the biggest scams in the history of our entire country is lost on you.
>>77973786
>manipulated taken advantage of and exploited
Free to leave my friend which is more than you can say for any other nation on earth
>>77972244
"Born into wealth and privilege"=born with the 60-80% heritable genes for high intelligence that your parents gave you since high IQ is the single strongest predictor of high socioeconomic status.
The banks and the 0.1% are fucking people over for sure, but the left is just as complicit in the screw-job by clinging to the fiction that we're all equal and most poor people are just a few opportunities away from being neurosurgeons and quant fund managers, despite an ever-growing mountain of evidence to the contrary.
And furthermore, this fictional narrative has actually made things worse for the lower class, by easing the collective consciences of the left while we strip this country of the industrial jobs that were the single best shot that those low-IQ populations on the left side of the Bell curve had ad making a decent living at work.
So because we cling to this fiction, we have more and more of the lower class checking out of the workforce entirely, because all that we've left for them is service jobs at Walmart and McDonald's that will never be worth more than $10 an hour.
Whereas if we acknowledged the 600lb gorilla of IQ, then ensuring the survival of sustainably high-wage low-skill work stops being merely something nice to strive for, and suddenly becomes an issue of critical importance for economic policy wonks and sociology majors alike.
![Gini_Coefficient_World_CIA_Report_2009[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/RBuOidC.png "Gini_Coefficient_World_CIA_Report_2009[1].png")
>russia has more equality than us
>turkroaches are better than us
>we're equal to china and mexico
AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM
>>77973517
Americans are overwhelmingly transitioning from industrial jobs to service jobs. It's silly to claim that our productivity is increasing while we produce literally no products.
>>77973673
Most Americans live far beyond their means. The vast majority of us have motor vehicles, expensive cell phones, eat expensive food, and have our houses furnished with a plethora of amenities. It's not that we don't make enough money because the evil job creators are taking it all; we simply as individuals spend a little too much.
>>77973914
>the more equality you have the better
false premise
>>77973947
>shifting the blame for the actions of the king impovershing the peasants to the peasants
The level of metaphorical cuckoldry here is staggering.
>>77965428
Why does it have to be equal?
>>77966082
Yes that's what socialist think. Muh exploitation of labor
>>77973947
okay, then if we stop spending so much then we can't have a service based economy
Remove the federal reserve, problem fixed.
>>77973867
It's a real possibility.
>>77973947
>I have literally no idea what productivity means in this context
>>77974168
one that you will never take up because the opportunities offered to you in your terrible unequal society are far greater than the equal utopia offered in venezuela and cuba
>>77970591
>that's not a bad thing though
It's made artificially higher than it should be though, so it is a bad thing
>>77971711
Because I can.
I've earned everything I have, good or bad, including my opinions.
Further, you are not the only person with freedom of speech and expression, nor do you hold a patent on truth or reality; certainly not because your opinions are currently fashionable.
>>77973947
>Most Americans live far beyond their means. The vast majority of us have motor vehicles, expensive cell phones, eat expensive food, and have our houses furnished with a plethora of amenities. It's not that we don't make enough money because the evil job creators are taking it all; we simply as individuals spend a little too much.
>american poor
>protesting at occupy rallies with iphones
Is this real?
>>77965428
If you really thing this is a problem, then quit importing tons of illegal spics. Companies pay them way less for a job that they'd pay a decent wage to a citizen for. Yet, tons of the colored complain about how low wages are.
>>77966261
You don't need authoritarians to redistribute wealth enmasse in order to fight income equality. Only Bernie Bolskheviks are suggesting such a thing, which is why they lost.
>>77974484
>then quit importing tons of illegal spics
>dems get votes from them
>repubs get the backing of business that employs them
not happening
>>77974295
Strawman and a false dichotomy rolled into one. Almost impressive if it wasn't such a lackluster intellectual display.
>>77973293
Also need to remember that almost all McDonald's are owned by franchisees who would probably struggle to pay $15/hr wages
>>77974447
Syrians in the middle of the apocalypse have cell phones. That argument is and has always been stupid.
>>77974576
Exactly, they'll never stop getting shipped here. They undermine the right and keep the dems in power.
>>77974129
We don't want a service based economy in the first place.
>>77974074
>medieval feudalism works the exact same way economically as 21st century free market capitalism
you're retarded
>>77974758
Not what I was implying, just making comparisons.
>>77974699
>cell phones are the same as brand new Iphone 8s every year
fuck off strawmaster
>>77974447
yes. being poor in America is equivalent to being filthy rich in basically any country that isn't western europe
>>77974812
It's a silly comparison to make when the circumstances of the two situations are nothing alike
>>77965841
Remove all niggers and spics. They are growing the underclass.
>>77974576
It would if we summarily executed the politicians as traitors.
>>77974632
impressive right?
>>77974656
which is why its funny to hear the evils of the big bad ceo being the one robbing the people and how they should all pay $15 an hour
>>77974699
nice
>>77974837
yet your poor will complain on their macbooks
>>77974837
Or smartphones. The people perpetuating the myth that owning a smartphone is some impressive luxury in the second decade of the 21st century are either straight up morons or being dishonest.
>>77974758
>i just took economics 101 the post
jesus christ
we can't have a resource based economy b/c we'll run out
we can't have an industrial economy b/c it's cheaper elsewhere
>>77974970
>it's cheaper elsewhere
literally what are tariffs
All these shitskin countries that offer cheap labour should be annexed into European and the American empires in the first place
What I don't understand is why CEOs, CFOs, COOs and the like of publicly traded companies are somehow allowed to receive multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses. There's no way to validate that; you're effectively hurting the company by taking money which should be used to grow your business at that point.
>>77974966
>have an iphone 6
>posting on facebook
Is this not a luxury?
Do you even know what poverty is? You seem to think poverty is something relative, something you define by looking at the best and saying yes i am in poverty. The united states definition of poverty changes each year. What is poor today was upper class a century ago
>>77975149
>literally what are tariffs
you forcing all other industries of your nation to now pay a higher cost for this item resulting in the jobs you 'saved' in that industry being lost as a spread over all others
>>77975327
Do you truly believe that a company is so stupid as to just throw millions of dollars at someone for no reason?
>>77975483
>force industries to lose a small amount of profit
>have no industries at all
wow this sure is a difficult choice
dumb kangaroo
>>77973914
>Iran scores better than us despite crippling sanctions.
You can't make this shit up/
>>77975483
>having a phone and internet access is a luxury
No anon, that's a normal part of living in the modern developed world. I almost think you're fucking with me because your points are so stupid.
When Americans are looking at the fact that they have cell phones and internet as being some kind of evidence of prosperity you need to take a step back.
>>77975483
>Do you truly believe that a company is so stupid as to just throw millions of dollars at someone for no reason?
It's not the company at that point; it's the board and Chairman. I believe that they should make millions of dollars if they're leading a Fortune 50 company, but it reaches a point where it is egregious and without reason. Their senior staff such as Directors and VP's don't see anywhere near that kind of money, when they would have far more to do with any organizations level of success when they're that large. So, without reason? No, but not merited to that degree.
>>77975643
Lol yeah man this place is a dystopia.
>>77975730
60% of Earth's population doesn't even have internet access you dumb coon
>>77971873
>>77974371
there is nothing wrong with someone having more money than you
>>77965841
Well maybe if we didn't have welfare black people would stop leaving their children behind and govt would stop coming up with bullshit excuses to dumb down our kids.
>>77975898
Oh you mean in destitute and violent third world shitholes?
>>77975910
Not the point, see my other posts.
>>77975623
>Back during the 1980s, when there were huge losses of jobs in the steel industry, the government restricted the importation of foreign steel. It has been estimated that this saved 5,000 jobs in the American steel industry.
nice
>But of course restriction of competition from lower-priced imported steel made steel more expensive to American producers of products containing steel. Therefore the price of these products rose, making them less in demand at these higher prices, causing losses of sales at home and in the world market.
>The bottom line is that, while 5,000 jobs were saved in the American steel industry, 26,000 jobs were lost in American industries that produced products made of steel
Remove half of the bullshit regulation, red tape, and taxes.
Starting a damn business in this country is becoming a minefield. WATCH THE FUCK OUT, you might step on a regulation.
I mean, you need a fucking license to CUT HAIR
Enormous businesses love these regulations because THEY can handle it, and YOU can't, making difficult for competition.
>>77975966
there is nothing manipulative or exploitative about earning less money than another person
>>77976025
This is bullshit. Most businesses fail and do so independently of muh regulation.
>>77975730
>developed world
that only 15% of the world enjoys friend
>>77975803
>without reason
>not merited to that degree
youre right, you can perform tothat level for less, why dont you replace him?
>>77976152
>this is false therefore we should maintain insane amounts of red tape
why
>>77975975
Citation, and if anything that shows a mass tariff structure is needed.
>>77967532
Gee, STILL mad about World War I see?
>>77975834
>>77975643
I just can't believe people are so complacent about it. Obviously people should earn more money if they worker harder, and are more skilled, but it's baffling that a CEO can make ten times the amount of a tenured neurosurgeon and people still say that they deserve that much of a companies profits. That's the most repetitive example, but there's also crap like inherited wealth and the smarmy fucks who screwed us over 9 years ago.
85% of America still lives *relatively* well, too, so I can't get too mad about it, but the frustrating thing is that it's causing a representative republic to become a pure oligarchy.
>>77975966
What you fail to understand is that the vast majority of Earth is a destitute and violent third world shithole.
>>77972769
The levels between 1949 to 1970 seems fine
>>77965428
>sell a company
>buy a company with the profits
>you have 0 dollars left from it
>you're in the top 0.01% now
>
>>77976148
Still missing the point, I'm guessing that you're doing it deliberately unless you really are this absent minded.
>>77976175
Oh right, america should be a third world shithole and I should want it to happen. How selfish of me to think otherwise.
>>77976371
They're complacent because they're thoroughly brainwashed, also of course /pol/ and the internet at large is absolutely flooded with shills doing PR for the ruling class.
>>77976447
And America shouldn't be and doesn't have to be.
>>77976175
>why dont you replace him?
I get what you're saying there, but then we arrive back at my original point. Making that much money at that point is effectively hurting the company, and it would be worth promoting a VP of whatever section he's heading up to take his place. However, the precedent is already ingrained that members of the C-suite take insane portions of the company's profits, so the practice would continue. Even if the salary of a Chief Marketing Officer moves from 9mil to 3mil, though, that's still progress.
>>77975803
>I know more about how to run a successful business than these dumb corporations who can afford to pay their CEOs a mil a year
>>77976538
how is working for someone and getting paid an amount worth your work scamming you
>>77976538
But we aren't. We're the wealthiest country on Earth
what the fuck is even your argument? you're unironically making me salty anon
>>77965428
In a country of 300 mill plus how is 120mill 90 percent. They are probably collecting welfare below 20k per year so they should stfu
>>77976309
But what is a tariff? Its you saying no, you must buy the more expensive product made locally instead of the cheaper version from elsehwere. No amount of restructure will make american product cheaper than overseas so you will always be crippling the industries that rely on the product which you are now making more expensive.
http://www.mackinac.org/4107
http://www.ncpa.org/pd/trade/pdtrade/july98a.html
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/FreeTrade.html
>>77975643
>it is better to live equally poor like Iran Venezuela or Russia
>>77976822
Because you're viewing a societal problem from an individual level. Either purposely to be dishonest or because you simply don't have the mental capacity to see the big picture.
>>77976895
We're the wealthiest country on Earth and the vast majority of that wealth is concentrated at the top when this did not used to be the case. It's a concentrated effort to siphon wealth from the bottom 99% to the top 1 or I'd argue .1%.
>>77976895
why is trump putting Intel's CEO on the garbage bin?
>>77977081
We should be more like Venezuela
>>77977081
but the bottom 99% still live like fucking kangz so it's irrelevant in the first place
no wrongdoing is being committed and you haven't proposed a solution to the problem that only marxists think exists
>>77977153
what? that's the prime minister of canada, edward cross
>>77977197
False dichotomy, try again.
>>77977200
The bottom 99% do not live like kings. That is North Korea level of delusion. Maybe to third world people, but no compared to Europe and East asia.
>>77965428
end the fed
return to gold standard
>>77976534
>70% of the population will have experienced at least one year within the top 20th percentile of income;
>53% of the population will have experienced at least one year within the top 10th percentile of income; and
>11.1% of the population will have found themselves in the much-maligned 1% of earners for at least one year of their lives.
>only 0.6% of the population will experience 10 consecutive years in the top 1% of earners
kek
>>77977028
>equating income inequality with wealth of a country
No can be this retarded
>>77976895
>>77976447
Right, but what he's getting at (I think) is that skilled labor and educated workers help to keep it that way. It's just strange that people who are the lifeblood of keeping our economy and infrastructure going aren't compensated anywhere near as well as our Manager's Manager's Manager's Manager's Manager's Manager, etc.
Speaking of our infrastructure, it's actually starting to affect shit like that. During these times of growth, there's no reason why our roads should be this shitty. Like you said, this isn't a 3rd world country.
>>77976538
>They're complacent because they're thoroughly brainwashed
Eh, partly maybe? I don't know. I think it's a combination of that and just being afraid to take action. I'm not a diehard Bernie guy or anything, but he was right to address this matter, and that part of his platform didn't receive much acknowledgement from the public. The most we've ever heard of actually addressing this is "so.. we tax them more??" but I dunno what legislation can be put in place so that folks like hospital board members and college administrators are making stupid amounts more than the folks actually plying the trade they exist for. Just fucking weird that things are this far bent.
>the internet at large is absolutely flooded with shills doing PR for the ruling class.
I'm more inclined to believe it's actually people who are scared to accept that we need to address this shit. Pic related.
>>77976814
>durr ur stoopid ur point makes logicul sense our leaders are good
>>77976619
If it was hurting the company they would not do it. If they felt the company needed a competent leader they would pay what they determined adequate. Boards of companies have shareholders and the like to answer to, they dont throw around money willy nilly like many think.
Men with more experience than you or I make the decisions in these fields. If they did not need to pay him 19 million they would not.
>>77967585
You dont realize that your mentality is the exact reason youre currently poor?
>>77977081
>siphon wealth from the bottom 99% to the top 1
Wealth isnt a finite thing that we all fight for a piece of
>>77977540
I don't think anything will ever get fixed honestly. I just like bitching about it, there really is no solution. The people in charge don't want to change it, it's not going to change and there isn't shit we can do about it.
>>77977694
Not what I was implying. I don't even know why I'm bothering with you. I'm well aware of what you are because of the tactics and talking points you use.
>>77977540
>I'm more inclined to believe it's actually people who are scared to accept that we need to address this shit. Pic related.
Nah it is just the temporarily embarrassed millionaire mindset.
>>77977825
>not what i was implying
then please clarify because that is what i took away from your post. If it was not the true meaning behind it please elaborate
>I'm well aware of what you are because of the tactics and talking points you use.
??? What am i?
>>77977271
sorry, need to get my eyes checked.
>>77977302
>False dichotomy, try again
False dichotomy would be to claim the only alternative to Americas's current system would be Venezuela, which is not true. However you are claiming the lower income inequality is the better is for everyone. Therefore countries with better income inequality should be better off than America. And Venezuela is a counter example of that.
>>77977439
>equating income inequality with wealth of a country
There's a reason why those countries don't have enough wealth to distribute to begin with. Because they don't get enough economic activities from the private sector primarily because less liberal (in the economic sense) countries make it incredibly hard for people to keep their money and get a better profit from their investments. Venezuela, fucking seized almost the eintire private sector and went from developing country into the "imminent famine" stage.
Venezuela had a bigger wealth before it was seized and distributed, now they don't even have enough wealth to distribute because the state tried to seize it all and couln't keep the exchange of products and services going. Relying more and more on oil profits until they ran out of money to give away. It is this simple.
BY TRYING TO SEIZE THE MEANS IN WHICH WEALTH IS ACCUMULATED YOU DISRUPT THE CREATION OF NEW WEALTH TO DISTRIBUTE.
Socialist believe all rich people have money in the bank and huge vaults. there's nothing farther away from reality. Wealthy people get its wealth measured by the ammount of ASSETS and money invested they have.
They understand motionless money is essentially debt which is why they invest almost all of the money they have in risky activities that can get them a bigger return so they can invest again. Employing thousands of people in the process.
But economically equal havens make this process hard so people either run way with their assets and invest someplace else.
>it doesn't matter how much you're paid relative to other people
>any amount of pay is fine, ignore those people who earn 10000000x times more, they are special
>be happy that you're getting paid at all, maybe one day you will be rich too heheheh
>and don't question this or you're getting fired and your family will starve
>>77977562
>Men with more experience than you or I make the decisions in these fields. If they did not need to pay him 19 million they would not.
I'll concede on the first part; nobody posting here knows the inner workings of these boardrooms. But consider that Dick Cheney got a $34mil severance package from a publicly traded company when he left to take office, and the former CEO of The Home Depot got a $16mil severance package when he got ousted after making the company *lose money* for years. The upper echelon of America has gotten to this almost feudalistic point where once you're in, you're in for good, and they don't understand just how obscene their incomes are.
The stockholders didn't give Haliburton or THD any serious backlash over those cases, by the way.
>>77977540
>aren't compensated anywhere near as well as our Manager's Manager's Manager's Manager's Manager's Manager, etc.
This is the same issue with the CEO discussion i think we had. I do not think there is some conspiracy to have layer upon layer of useless bureaucracy in a business (outside gov). If a manager proves his worth in increasing productivity they will be paid accordingly. If there was no reason to have someone they would not be there and if there was no reason to pay them well they would not be paid so.
Should you ever run a business you will find that there is plenty of fat to trim and for plenty of reasons to pay someone more. You are paid what you are worth and it so happens those whos job keep the company alive are worth more than those who can be replaced by a teenager. Its not polite, i understand this, but its true.
Really not gonna matter in a decade or two. Universal Basic income is coming. There are too many ups vs downs not to do it, government will then have you in control.
If Robots, AI and driverless cars are going to take millions of jobs away, I can't see how they would allow all those people on the street. Some people will just not work anymore.
Why do you think governments right now are running around with their heads cut off inviting elon musk and others to kind of brain storm , cause there is no innovation and if there is no innovation then the future will suffer.
There wont be any job left that requires physical force, those kind of jobs will be for robots. The thing is, what you or I say will not change this, as soon as it becomes profitable, you better believe they will start using robots.
One of the problems here is rent cost. That's the large portion of your paycheck, everything else comes second right? We gotta have a roof over our heads. Who the fuck is going to be able to afford half a million or more for one? Other thn rich international transports from China or something.
/rant
I can go on and on but im so sick of talknig abou tthis.
>>77978108
The wealth created is being siphoned via a concentrated effort to do so. Intelligent super rich people utilize a multitude of methods to siphon almost all new wealth created in the United states to them and away from everyone else.
>>77978371
There are a lot of countries with way less income inequality than the US that are doing much better than Venezuela. You picked Venezuela as an example because it's a bad example and you're wasting my time. Enjoy vomiting logical fallacies to people who don't know any better.
>>77965428
It's a meme issue. We need to stop worrying about how the pie is divided up and instead make the pie bigger for everyone.
Donald J Trump will Make America Great Again. More importantly, he will make America WEALTHY again.
>>77978515
http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2008/10/01/penny-wise_politics
When you pay someone 34 million to fuck off you do so with good reason. Dont think for a moment that this money had no better place to go.
>>77978371
No one is saying Venezula is not being retarded and that we should redistribute all the wealth to fix income inequality. Income inequality is a natural thing but it becomes toxic if it is increasing with no end in sight. Your fixation on Venezuela is a red herring and removes attention away from America's increasing inequality
>>77965428
Tell mother fuckers to work harder but mostly smarter. Create their own job and then make themselves indispensable. Also you seldom get rich working for someone else but that doesn't mean you can't raise a family comfortably.
I have 11 employees and all think about what time they are getting off everyday. None of them knows the day one of them steps up I will let them take over so I can travel to Colorado more often.
Initiative and they can go home and tell their wife they just got a raise over $100,000. I bet their wife would rape them.
Plus I'm working on my bunker and would rather not have to go into work any longer.
>>77965428
Mandate a minimum wage, create an effective balance of power between the Government and Business, meaning that no single entity can fuck each other over. Extensively publicize lobbying, make all lobbying entirely transparent. Improve education for everyone, so everyone has a chance. End the military-industrial complex that essentially wastes money on things that are ineffective.
There are plenty of ways to solve it, but the thing is people are greedy, and those greedy people are the ones running the show.
>>77965689
You must be dumb then. You can work 60 hours a week at minimum wage and still be in poverty. Or, you can be born into a wealthy family, receive great education, opportunity, and wealth, and contacts, and inherit a business, and never have to do that in your life. Most people aren't poor because they choose to be poor, they are poor because it is hard to move from the bottom to the top, at least in on generation. It has been getting harder for some time now. Middle class people are better off, but thanks to greedy corporations and idiots in government, it is getting worse.
>>77965428
second amendment
>>77978560
>Universal Basic income
this confuses me, im no economist so i do not know what it could cause but wouldnt it just drive the prices of everything up?
Also, how would things get done? If i cleaned shit from toilets all day it would be nigh impossible to convince me to return to work.
How do all these things work with basic income?
>>77978614
>There are a lot of countries with way less income inequality than the US that are doing much better than Venezuela
Switzerland for instance, which does exactly the oposite of what democrat suggests (welfare, increasing tax marginal rates, higher minimum wages). In Switzerland you don't get your money and assets seized like useful idiots like Sean Penn suggest, which in turn gets rich people to invest in its own country which does a better job at distributing wealth than any welfare program ever will. But they won't tell you that because the entire point of the Frankfurt school is to seize the private means of productions, increase bureaucracy and have a huge statist shithole not even Stalin could dream about.
The thing is you need economic freedom. and not sacrifice it for the sake of "wealth redistrubution" like America is doing right now hurting itself in the process.
>Income inequality is a natural thing but it becomes toxic if it is increasing with no end in sight.
Do exactly what Switzerland does then, reject welfare state, reject high marxinal tax rates and reject or reduce welfare.
>>77965428
>How do we fix income inequality in America?
By importing Tens of Millions of more Minorities obviously OP! : ^)
>>77978614
Contrary to that, i think government rules and regulations are crippling small business and allowing only the biggest and richest to thrive. No monopoly has ever lasted without government assistance. These laws to increase the minimum wage will do nothing but kill small business and 'siphon' the wealth to the big bad 1%. Like this mexicunt says >>77979279, its the opposite of what many who wanted to get rid of income inequality want that will get it done.
Can you explain the part where you said you know what i am from the way i argue?
I am extremly curious to hear it
As I see it, and I'm not an economist or a businessperson, the issue isn't high executive pay. Rather, how executives are paid and what they can do with that money. If any given executive's pay is determined in such a way as to incentivize short-term profits even if it cannibalizes longer-term prospects than we've got a problem, long-term growth plans are what the economy needs to continue recovering. Secondly, because money is power in Washington, the executives who enjoy such high pay would be silly to not try to use that money to buy more power to make even more money.
>>77965841
what is "fair"?
what are the metrics used to measure "fairness"?
what other economics factors do we use to conclude that increased "income equality" is beneficial?
>>77979043
Prices go up because idiot 'businessmen' want to make money from people. They think that by charging more, they make more. That isn't the case, they make more by selling more, and raising prices means you usually sell less.There is enough food to feed everyone in the world, enough water for everyone, and enough shelter for everyone. We have the technology to make it even more efficient. If you have all those things, you can survive, and when they are in surplus, they should be available for everyone at affordable prices. By having prices that are both affordable and still give you a profit, people have money left over to continue to drive the economy. In theory, good businessmen would understand this. Most seem to not understand that, and instead go for short term gain, which will result in the
Because it will be automated. Menial jobs are going out, and that is why a universal wage will be mandated. Similar to how high unemployment occurred in Rome due to slavery, high unemployment will occur, and similar to Rome, people will get a grain dole of sorts, because they are not needed to work.
You obviously stopped reading as soon as you saw universal basic income, as his post just said how it would work.
>>77979031
Its also called sacrifice mother fucker. Most of those peoples fortunes didnt come from dicking around, it came from one ambitious mother fucker who cut throats, did what he had to do and got it done. No regrets, no mercy. Make sure your kids dont just survive, that they thrive.
>>77979673
the only time anyone has ever given a value to this elusive level of fair is >>77976489
>>77967585
how do you propose we get "collective ownership"?
is it through handing it all to the government?
>>77965428
Vote Republican, that's the only way, I'm not memeing
>>77979542
>These laws to increase the minimum wage will do nothing but kill small business and 'siphon' the wealth to the big bad 1%.
Exactly this
The one entity who would benefit the most from income inequality action would be wallmart. They would spent more money but that money will be worth less than it was before and wallmart will eventually get a bigger part of the cake. money is nothing but a mean to exchange good and services and it was a floating value like every other thing in the market.
>>77972021
thats because the value provided was no longer difficult to replace.....manufacturing jobs produced actual tangible assets, and was able to scale with the economy. Service industry jobs do not scale....at all, because it is the lowest form of employment and the most outright replaceable.
>>77965428
Unions. Nationalism instead of globalism. Lots of other stuff I'm sure is being mentioned by posters in this thread.
But above all, getting money out of politics (public financing of elections) is the first domino that must fall before any of the others can.
>>77979734
>Prices go up because idiot 'businessmen' want to make money from people
?????
>You obviously stopped reading as soon as you saw universal basic income, as his post just said how it would work.
Thats not a fair assumption to make friend, i asked in regards to non automated jobs and the like. The dirty jobs which arent automated, their end fate
>>77965428
Get a better job whiny ass.
>>77978371
That has to be paste, too articulated for a pepper belly. Points for relevance though.
>>77979807
thanks mate
>>77974928
Now we're talking.
>>77978532
>This is the same issue with the CEO discussion i think we had. I do not think there is some conspiracy to have layer upon layer of useless bureaucracy in a business (outside gov). If a manager proves his worth in increasing productivity they will be paid accordingly. If there was no reason to have someone they would not be there and if there was no reason to pay them well they would not be paid so.
Agreed. The pay differentials between some of the different levels truly don't need to be so broad, though, in my mind. At a certain point within the corporate hierarchy, it's mostly delegation and leadership. When people at the top are delegating to fewer people, who are presumably among the more competent folks in their organization, it seems that would merit only a million more than the person on the rung below them (and that seems generous, in my mind).
>>77978532
>Should you ever run a business you will find that there is plenty of fat to trim and for plenty of reasons to pay someone more.
No doubt. Hard work and ingenuity needs rewarding; I'm just starting to thing that the idea of what a proper compensation is has become inflated among more ambitious people.
>>77978791
Touche, but let's juxtapose that with
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/27/south-korea-chung-hong-won-resigns-ferry-sinking
Rewarding someone for being a fucknugget is a very recent development. When you screw up and fuck over the people of your company, or "your people" in general, you should be shamed and pressured into resignation. That Home Depot CEO is now on the board of Coca-Cola. HRC is running for the highest office in the land. The tolerance for mediocrity and allowing these people to stay entrenched is part of the root of the issue.
>>77965428
>How do we fix income inequality in America?
Some people dedicate their entire lives to making money. They forego family, hobbies and interests to set up businesses, amass wealth etc.
Why should these people not earn more for their efforts, interests, and capabilities, not to mention the risks they take?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>77979279
>forgetting to mention that Switzerland's direct democracy prevents money from corrupting politics like in Amercia
>implying a nation of 300 plus million with different can wholesale copy another with less than 20 million relatively homogenous population
I think you are using this thread to peddle your right wing politics instead of actually discussing about income inequality
>>77979754
Donald Trump got a small loan of a million dollars from his father. Assuming the median wage of approx 50,000, and not including basic necessities, it would take a normal household 20 years to earn that much money.Bill Gates came from a relatively wealthy middle/upper class family and could afford to go to Harvard. Not everyone has those opportunities. In fact, poor people have very few opportunities.
If everyone goes all cutthroat, society will collapse. It is built on cooperation, not screwing everyone else over. Most can't make their kids thrive- not because they are lazy, but because they are trapped in the vicious cycle of poverty, in a nation that, as exemplified by idiots like you, doesn't understand that hard work isn't the way out of poverty, but support and education that must be provided by others.
No, poor people are not just a money dump, they should be an investment. If you can get the entire lower class into a productive state, you will be far better off than just blaming them for their problems.
>>77965428
Stop importing cheap unskilled labor.
>>77965428
Stop sending out of the country and letting illegals come in to prevent wages from going up
>>77979767
Another time is literally in the picture up the reply chain.
>>77965428
De regulated economies.
>>77980062
>Switzerland's direct democracy prevents money from corrupting politics like in Amercia
Congratulations, you are now beginning to understand that big government is one key to solving the puzzle. Albeit America's government is small compared to most countries on earth it has grown a lot in the past 20 years and its a huge institution compared to that of Switzerland. Proportionally of course, in the way it impacts the life of every citizen. Which is close to none, because in Switzerland, they reject Welfare, minimum wages and high marginal tax rates.
>I think you are using this thread to peddle your right wing politics instead of actually discussing about income inequality
Ad hominem because you cannot refute what I am saying mate.
Get Hillary in office fast
You cannot fix what isnt broken
>>77979945
Businessmen make money by overcharging and making massive profit margins. This shrinks the market that they can sell too, however. By shrinking their market too far, they reduce the amount of products they can sell to a point where they are losing money by charging more. Australian example- Coles and Woolworths screw over farmers, e.g. buy mangos for $0.08, sell them for $1.08 (something along those lines). Not only is it a disgusting and coercive monopoly, but it means that they will sell less mangos. People already don't buy all their fruits, so why are they charging so much? If they were smart, they would charge less for the fruit- $0.58 whatever, to the point that they will sell all or most of their fruit. If they weren't scumbags they would pay more for the foods which they already make massive profit margins from, but that isn't the idiotic business component here.
Non automated jobs, ie, non menial jobs that require thinking will have higher pay than the universal basic wage obviously. It isn't a difficult concept. Cleaning toilets? Well, if that is still needed as you for some reason suggested (here's a spoiler, it won't be, because that is really easy to automate), then it will simply pay more than the basic wage. Supply and demand in action really.
>>77967585
Whats with this work hard meme? Since when does working hard = valuable. I could work my ass off digging a 30 foot hole in the middle of death valley but that doesn't mean deserve any money for it.
>>77980039
>don't need to be
Again mate, i dont mean to be rude but who are you to determine what is needed? Who is better to determine the wage they will pay someone than the employer?
>it seems that would merit
>seems
Again, to you and I. Until you know the inner workings of a company and can determine the true value of a person you will never be content with what is paid. These people who you deem more competent in their organization you seem to think become wholly incompetent when it comes to their leader and his role.
>the guardian
kek, youre a nice guy i like you mate but you should choose a better source for a news story i think. I get the point youre making though. Again it comes down to wanting to get rid of this person who sucks. You will pay the cost of severance if you deem it necessary to get this man out the door and bring in a new one. The board of coca cola are not a bunch of chucklefucks who stand around all day making bad decision (despite what the latest flavor of coke would tell you). They run a company that produces the most popular drink in the world. Do you think they cannot hire the best of the best out there? They chose that man willingly because they believed his talents are good enough to help their company. There is no big circle of mediocre businessmen helping each other jump company to company so they can sink it.
>>77974129
Service based economies are a bad idea.
>>77979279
Switzerland =/= the USA. completely different country, better educated, much smaller in size and population, completely different economy, etc. etc.
A minimum wage in the US, however, will result in more disposable income, which will result in higher consumption of non-essential goods, which will result in more sales taxes and company income, which will help not only the government, but the companies who pay higher wages. See Henry Ford.
>>77980525
Sorry
>this arbitrary limit on what wealth one can own
>passing this your asset will be seized
>either cease your productivity or work for free
>>77979673
Where the playing board isn't tipped completely in the favour of those who already are born with exponentially more opportunity and wealth than those who have none.
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
>>77965428
>develop some reputable skills
>stop having the mentality of a victim to the system
>stop being degenerate
>get educated
>dont be manlet
'muh equality is the reason i can't succeed"
This is the mentality that will make you poor and eventually die poor. Maybe its a good thing, you whiny betas are weakening the gene pool anyway.
>>77980953
Wealth inequality can solve itself without income redistribution. Mandating a reasonable minimum wage and preventing government and corporate corruption are part of the solution. Taking wealth away form rich people? Not the solution.
>>77980953
How is this related to my post or the post I was replying to?
>>77980571
Whether or not you believe big or small government is good, the fact is that lobbying is allowing the wealthy to control Democrats and Republicians. There is even a Standford study that shows the common masses has no say in politics while the wealthy do. Switzerland doesn't have this problem due to its direct democracy.
>Ad hominem because you cannot refute what I am saying mate.
>implying I wanted to
I started talking to you coz you didn't think income inequality is bad. Now you are using whatever opportunity to talk about right wing economics and trying to goad me into engaging you in that direction. I don't care much about that coz that doesn't solve the root of the problem, since the wealthy is already controlling American politics
>>77980690
>Businessmen make money by overcharging and making massive profit margin
Define overcharging? If i buy something for $5 and sell it for $10 am i overcharging? Should i have have sold it for $7? Overcharging is another way of simply getting the best price you can for your product. Why would you sell your product for a smaller amount than it is worth?
>Walmart's $446 billion of revenue last year was eye-popping, but its profit margins are far from fat--between 3% to 3.5%.
doesnt seem so massive desu
I dont mean to be rude but if companies could charge less and then make more on a product do you not think they would do it? far greater minds than you or i work in these industries yet they all fall victim to this silly trap of overcharging?
>if they were smart
But they charge it because people do buy it. Why else would they have that price? Everytime you shop you vote with your wallet, you ignore the mango and they hear its not selling and adjust accordingly.
>pay more for the foods which they already make massive profit margins from
again, why? why would anyone willingly pay more? They run a business not a charity
>>77981038
Another idiot.
Poverty is not something you choose, it is something that can be almost impossible to escape from. No amount of hard work can save you from a corrupt government and corporate world, and you can work 60 hours a week and still not have enough money to support yourself.
Get educated? Education isn't a thing that you just go out and do. It's something you need to build upon constantly. Miss out on a good education in your youth due to poverty? You are probably going to find it very hard to ever reach a level of education that is useful. Even then, education costs money, a lot of money, and guess what poor people don't have? Money.
>>77981226
sorry i made a comment regarding the image, i should have quoted it
>>77981132
again, define solve itself. What level of inequality do you deem ok?
>>77977540
>Right, but what he's getting at (I think) is that skilled labor and educated workers help to keep it that way.
Skilled workers are only a result of unskilled workers. Its like taking the bottom layer of a pyramid. This pyramid is going to crash and fall or skilled workers are going to have to do unskilled work. Either way the pyramid will be shorter though.
>It's just strange that people who are the lifeblood of keeping our economy and infrastructure going aren't compensated anywhere near as well as our Manager's Manager's Manager's Manager's Manager's Manager, etc
its not strange at all if you had any basic understanding of economics. You get paid what you are worth. no exception.
>>77965428
>implying wealth is a zero-sum game
Get out, faggot. Wealth is created from nothing. It's not a piece of pie that gets divied up. If all the rich faggots were deprived of their wealth all of a sudden, the nation's poor wouldn't be any better off.
>>77979794
Directly ownership by the workers. Democratic confederations of workers. They know what is needed. It's happened many times until governments stopped it (Paris Commune, Catalonia)
>>77980762
It doesn't explicitly refer to physical labour you dolt. Mental labour is part of work. Socially useful work is good, anything that meets people's needs (not capitalist wants) and improves the lives of the masses.
>>77981499
>Poverty is not something you choose, it is something that can be almost impossible to escape from.
Not true if you live in a free market.
>you can work 60 hours a week and still not have enough money to support yourself.
Also not true unless you live above your means. If you are, stop.
>Education isn't a thing that you just go out and do. It's something you need to build upon constantly. Miss out on a good education in your youth due to poverty? You are probably going to find it very hard to ever reach a level of education that is useful.
Thats exactly what education is. Yes you need to build on your education but thats just complaining about being alive. All you have to do is get an education or fuck it, just go to a training camp that teaches you a skill. There is no time limit on when you can learn a new skill or go to school. You don't have to be 18-22 to go to college. You can go to school at any age in your life.
Oh, wow you might have to save up some money for a college education that will improve your life 10 fold. What a horrible system. How dare someone ask you to pay for something that will grant you a more comfortable life for the rest of your life.
>>77965428
Poor people really need to stop having 5-7 kids
>>77981699
Socialist?
>>77982154
Democratic socialist and syndicalist I guess. Not a Leninist.
>>77965616
Doesn't need to be equal, just way less lopsided.
>>77965428
Communism.
>>77981423
Before I get into this, keep in mind the entire point is that prices go up because businesses want to make more money. They don't always make more money in the long term, but in the short term, they might make more. This is only really true for essential goods, because people have to purchase essential goods. The problem is, it actually hurts the economy, and will eventually hurt your business because of that. It is ecosystemic.
You are overcharging when people don't purchase all your products and they go to waste. By charging less, more people will buy your products.
No, the product is worth $0.08. Anything more than that, and you are selling it for more than it is worth.
Walmart net income- 14.69 billion USD. Oh, that's a tiny profit margin, right? 14.69 billion dollars is more money than most people will see in their entire lives. Now, let's look at apple's profit margin- 39.4%. That's a lot of money. What do you mean far greater minds than you and I work in these industries? Corporate America is not a meritocracy. It is a nepotist-oligarch-aristocracy if anything.
I don't purchase mangos, and, due to large amounts of wasted food, people don't but a lot of their products. They don't hear it because they don't have to. The government supports their monopoly, which is not a good thing for the economy.
I said it is morally better to do that. Considering they essentially threaten their suppliers into selling everything for dirt cheap, then it is morally wrong. Okay, they are allowed to do it. Okay, so why would they stop? They don't have any reason to stop. But you know who should be stopping these almost mafia-like tactics? The Government. That is part of the problem here.
>>77965428
kill everyone
>>77981423
>I dont mean to be rude but if companies could charge less and then make more on a product do you not think they would do it?
If it was a competitive market they would. Perfect competition actually leads to 0 profits as the very thing you say would happen until those profits hit 0 but due a number of factors like barriers to entry someone cannot easily just set up a Walmart competitor.
Even if you just answered the question yourself I am sure you would have got that answer anyway. I mean surely if you could just set up a Walmart competitor with lower profit margins and therefore price then you should be taking all the market from Walmart. So why don't you do it?
>>77981699
Then why does every propaganda peace talking about it show manual laborers?
>Socially useful work is good, anything that meets people's needs (not capitalist wants) and improves the lives of the masses.
>humans should just survive instead of thriving because i'm too lazy to work.
Thats what you just said. What is socially useful work? Who determines what people need? Why don't people get to have anything they want?
Any work that meets the capitalists wants improves the capitalists lives. The masses are capitalists.
>>77965428
Remove the Jews. Who do you think controls the Fed and the major banks?
Everything else is just chasing your tail.
>>77982331
Top kek.
>>77982252
So in socialism capital accumulation is forbidden, right? And if so how would people find the required investments to open new factories?
>>77981500
Where everyone is able to provide a reasonable standard of living for themselves where they can survive comfortably. This is not mutually exclusive with having wealthy people and capitalist opportunities.
>>77965864
T H I S
H
I
S
>>77982334
What do you honestly think they are going to do with those profits?
1) give it all to the ceo
2) invest it back into the company to get even more profits next time.
>>77982423
>Blame everything on the jews!!
>>77982390
>Then why does every propaganda peace talking about it show manual laborers?
>popaganda
You said it yourself bro.
>humans should just survive instead of thriving because i'm too lazy to work.
Source?
> Who determines what people need?
You and your community.
>Why don't people get to have anything they want?
That is anarchism
>The masses are capitalists.
No, capitalists are defined as those whose income is investment returns, shares... Middle class and proletarian are those who earn their life with wages
>>77982767
>they are going to do with those profits?
Panama papers showed us pretty clearly
>>77981499
>clearly retarded
again, thats the mindset that makes you poor anon. I grew in a poverty stricken family, my parents could barley afford food and rent at the same time.
skip forward 15 years:
>i make at the minimum 200k/year
>own my own house at the age of 23
Tell me more about how poverty is inescapable. When youre retarded and have no reputable skills, then think working for someone else is going to make you rich.
>retarded
>>77982378
>Perfect competition actually leads to 0 profits
No there needs to be profits to incentive anyone to do anything. I'm not going to keep running a business to gain nothing.
>So why don't you do it?
Government regulation and not enough initial money to invest.
This isn't a bad thing though. If someone with enough money thinks "hey I can make cheaper stuff than wallmart after wallmart raised prices then they will do better.
With capitalism if you can profit off of it someone is going to try it.
>implying there is anything inherently wrong with a almost monopoly.
Even still there are plenty of other places to go besides wallmart.
>>77965428
Here you go
Everyone has to work, school ends at 15, all citizens must work 6 days a week until 75 then you receive retirement
All residents must maintain a minimum level of physical fitness
All food will be required to be nutritious and be available at a set price, only uncooked food may be sold
All products sold must conform to a need not a want, 1 manufacturer of any product will be selected, no others may make of sell that item, all prices will be set
All jobs will receive identical pay, everyone will work 10 hour days
No personal transport is allowed, only one type of clothing is allowed, one style of haircut
All housing will be ultra high density towers, no private dwellings, all units will provide 150 square feet per person
Free enterprise is not allowed, you can only work you approved job
Those not resisting will be removed, those with illness or disability will be removed
Only the approved may procreate
Everything is owned by everyone, no private ownership, all get a home, all get food, all have a job
You will be content to know Everyone is provided for, Everyone is equal
Everyone is happy
>>77965428
Stop voting democrat
>>77965428
How about a Georgist land value tax?
one tax on the unimproved value of land
no more fat cats extracting the value a community has built up around a parcel of land
>>77965428
Honestly? Kill all the baby boomers.
>>77972244
This shit is straight out of the communist manifesto
>>77977081
>Because you're viewing a societal problem from an individual level
a societal 'problem' that doesn't affect any individuals does not exist
commie faggots and capitalist pigs are both wrong its time to into Georgism for the betterment on mankind
The central principles of Georgism are
1) free exchange of goods in markets, with limited regulation of commerce;
2) no taxes on labor; high taxes on certain kinds of property;
3) private ownership of property, but fully offset by taxes that virtually eliminate unearned wealth.
Georgists agree with socialists that capitalism has failed to reconcile fairness with efficiency. Whereas capitalist policies increase national income, they also cause extreme inequality.
Georgists agree with capitalists that socialism is inefficient because government monopolies are rarely any better than private monopolies. Most policies to help the poor by equalizing incomes have the negative side effect of reducing the productive power of the economy. That is why China and Russia shifted from socialism to capitalism in recent decades.
Georgists believe it is possible to unite fairness and efficiency by taxing away the rewards of privilege so that people can earn money only by being productive. Since much of the power of modern corporations derives from those privileges, proper taxes could reduce that power.
>>77982889
No capitalists are defined as people who do thing for capitals. IE) anybody who has a job or is trying to run a business or anybody doing anything for any kind of personal gain.
>Source?
Thats what that faggot said.
>You and your community.
So what happens when I need a car but their so does everyone else in town. Who's going to get the supply of 50 cars. Who's going to make those cars? I'm busy doing other stuff.
>That is anarchism
No it is not.
Whats so hard to understand. Capitalism is the only system in which there is incentive to do anything. It is the only system where people can seek to thrive rather than survive. In a communist system you do whatever you have to survive and help other survive but after that there is no reason to do anything else. There is no incentive.
I'd rather thrive than survive. its better to be a lion and all that.
>>77983231
>No there needs to be profits to incentive anyone to do anything. I'm not going to keep running a business to gain nothing.
Just because you don't run a profit does not mean you gain nothing. There are people running non profit charities that still get paid. A wage counts as an expense, it doesn't come out of profit, profit is counted after everyone is paid and all else is paid. Profit is any surplus a company has after all business is done which the owners of the business then decide what to do with.
You can profit undercutting Walmart, if also the barrier of entry wasn't there. You would still profit and make money for you just less than Walmart does.
Waaaah. Its not fair guys, why do people have more money than me!?! My mommy said that I was a special snowflake that would live a successful life. It must be those peoples fault i'm poor.
>>77982082
>Not true if you live in a free market.
What do you mean not true in a free market? Why? The market may be 'free', but that doesn't give you any real power.
>Also not true unless you live above your means. If you are, stop.
The minimum wage in the US is $7.25/hour. (Some states). If you have no children, and you work 60 hours a week every week, your income before tax would be $22620. After tax and living expenses, that would probably be something like $1000 extra per year, in some areas. With one child, you are essentially screwed. Two adults, one child, still tough, two parents two children, you are screwed.
Okay, training camp. How will this skill apply to the real world? What sort of skills are we talking about here? Keep in mind you have to keep working to support yourself while you are going through education, keep in mind that if you already have a family for whatever reason, it is essentially impossible.
How much does education cost? We have already established that be working 60 hours a week at minimum wage, you will earn probably at most $1000 a year. Okay, technical college- about 7 years to earn enough money, living at bare minimum. Average wage with a two year degree is around $35,000, tax about 7000 I believe, you are now making 6000 dollars more after two years, taking into account minimum living expenses. Are you saying that's a comfortable life? Do you think you could support a family on that? Hardly.
>>77982334
>You are overcharging when people don't purchase all your products and they go to waste. By charging less, more people will buy your products.
And if there is a point where you will make the most by charging it for 10$ selling it to 4 people instead of charging $7 and selling it to 5 people would it not make sense to sell it at $10 and discard the one?
>you are selling it for more than it is worth.
if i sell it for what i got it for what is my purpose in this transaction
Profit margin and net income are two different things. Their tiny profit margin allowed them to sell products cheaply and do better than their competitors and therefore make more. You seem to be against them making that money so my question is what would you do instead?
Morally i agree, to sit there and waste food isnt a nice thing but when it is not profitable to do it why would anyone? The farmer does not wake up in the morning and plant the seeds because he is a nice guy. He does not go out and pick the fruits all day because he wishes to feed the people. He does it for his own self interest, the same thing that drives all things.
How do you propose government stop these things? Caps on how much they can make? Price caps?
>>77983228
You grew up in Canada I'm assuming? Very different to the US.
Tell us how you did it anon.
Why cant any of you insufferable faggots get on the Gerorgist bandwagon
i never here anyone talk about it
nothing but a bunch of socialist and capitalist ideologue shills
>>77983492
No, it's true.
>>77981004
Wait, people who have rich parents are more likely to be rich? Since when?! Oh that's right fucking forever. If you are born poor no shit you are gonna have a harder time. Nothing will change that. Be pissed at your ancestors for not doing shit and try to be better than them so your kids aren't as ashamed as you should be.
>>77965428
Inequality is fairness incarnate.
Men do not achieve the same things in life. They do not deserve the same fruits. They do not deserve anything more than what they achieve.
You have what you have because it is precisely, literally and exactly what you deserve and have earned. If you had earned, or deserved, otherwise, you would have it.
End.
>>77980211
>Vicious cycle of poverty
>Get the entire lower class into a productive state
And how is this done? There's many, many 'programs' and access to certifications, trade schools, etc that are easily affordable and able to maintain. The issue is most of them don't want to be productive.
If you follow 3 simple rules, it's absolutely proven you will never fall into poverty. 1) Graduate High School 2) Wait for marriage; don't have kids 3) Get a full-time job
People who are in poverty have failed in one of these 3 areas. Poverty is not 'handed down'. It's willingly entered into by the decision of the person regardless of the environment, race or nationality. Also - wealth is not a zero sum game. If it was, economies would be fixed and would never, ever grow.
