I'm an educated intelligent middle class lad and I'm probably going to vote remain.
Do any of you brits have any good arguments to persuade me not to?
>>77931464
Because leftist totalitarianism always fails?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2MT0PtoB3A
and watch brexit the movie
>>77931464
It's pretty much a dictatorship
>>77931464
Because a vote for Remain is racist.
>>77931464
>educated intelligent middle class lad that votes to vote remain
But anon, an educated/intelligent individual wouldn't vote remain
>>77931676
How is the EU leftist? It's all about free trade, privatisation and austerity.
>>77931736
Watched it twice, still Bremain'ing.
>>77931464
>I'm an educated intelligent middle class lad
>I'm probably going to vote remain
Pick one and only one.
>>77932028
EU is not about free trade.
It is about preventing free trade with anyone not in the EU, and the continuance of tariffs to increase the price of goods and services inside the EU, for EU citizens.
More expensive goods and services = more VAT. More VAT means more gibs me dat to hand out to welfare niggers. Happy welfare niggers = more votes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNJ05NfM-4Y
there are plenty of videos like this explaining why vote leave > vote remain
>>77932245
He could be, he just might hate his country.
>>77932131
Please don't vote to leave, think of the innocent refugees that need homes and peace that you can provide. Don't be like these closed minded assholes.
>>77931957
that falls down very easily; why should a british unqualified guy have an easier time in the uk than a qualified chink
the eu reduces this racism. and i dont feel the argument "because he's british" stands up; if that does why doesn't the argument "because they're european" stand up just as well?
>>77931736
wow thats long summarize lol
>>77931936
ur not explaining too gud lol
yeh we have less voting power than some other countries, but it's still far from a dictatorship afaik
>>77932245
>>77931986
>ad hominems
>>77932248
without the eu free trade will be very hard; either we stick to all their regulations with no say in what they are (ie norway) or we don't and lose lots of our trade with them
>>77932260
i dont like videos, give me something to read which won't take 20min
>>77932131
>intelligent educated
now i don't believe you anymore
if you're still fine being in a political union that wants to create a superstate (that won't be a democracy) then you don't care about your history of britain or any history of the nations of europe that got sold out when they joined the "trade union" as they called it at the beginning.
and i didnt even mention security, immigration, jobs etc
>>77932496
>we have a say in regulations as it is
kek
>>77932496
The parliament has no power, it's just for show, hence the lack of manifestos, no one voted for the people who are actually in charge
>>77931464
>Do any of you brits have any good arguments to persuade me not to?
If you have a job in the financial services area or a job potentially affected by a recession or are in a career sensitive part of your life which relies on a good economy, you should not vote for Brexit.
If you are strongly affected by EU migration (you are competing with Romanians or Bulgarians or Polish people on a daily basis), or have a very stable job not related to exports, or have available certain funds AND you believe sovereignty requires all major economic decisions to be taken by the national parliament (even if such decisions are merely implementation steps of foreign rules, required to be implemented to facilitate trade), then you should vote Brexit.
TLDR: if you hate foreigners and won't be economically affected by Brexit, vote Brexit, if you might be impacted by a bad economy and don't care about Romanian girls or Polish dudes, vote Remain.
>>77931464
>I'm an educated intelligent middle class lad
No you're not, you're an obnoxious, pretentious faggot that's only going to say "you're wrong I know better than you" to every point.
End your life.
>>77932496
Really in 2016 we should be uniting as a world not dividing! stay strong and protect the innocence of the world!
>>77932547
>security
good in eu, as we can share information and catch criminals who run across borders more easily
>immigration
why is this so bad
dont reply with lol pls
>jobs
pls explain im dumb lol
>(that won't be a democracy)
explain im dumb
>>77932743
these kind of responces might make people here think you're clever but to me its not too persuasive sry senpai
>>77932962
who's in charge
>>77933067
:(
>>77932496
>dont like videos
what
how is reading any better than watching a video wich sumarizes all the more important points in it
>>77933135
i read faster than people talk and i have a short attention span for videos
>>77931464
fuck off kenneth you fat unemployed piece of euroshit
dont make me dox you again
>>77931464
Vote whatever you want but:
Before we had the EU and the Euro, we had a reduced version of it, called ECU, the European Currency Union which had the function of an international trading currency in which the nations' currencies were ranked. The nations could print money in order to let their currency breathe, they downvalued their currency in the ECU and of course slighty influenced the total value of it but that was perfectly acceptable since the economy of said country needed the adjustment to become more productive.
That vurrency was close to becoming the leading currency of the world. Then the Euro came.
Keep that in mind when you argue in favor of the EU being the "only mechanism to compete internationally".
>>77933125
Don't listen to these people you're very smart for not wanting to leave a strong United and wealthy Europe. Be on the right side of history.
>>77932028
It's progressive in nature, that is undeniable. They are pushing every progressive cause, from the gender pay gap to man made climate change.
EU = Anti-White.
>>77933423
>>77933377
The EU is a progressive totalitarian mess.
dont be a fucking cuck. VOTE LEAVE
>>77933638
There's nothing wrong with cuckolding if that's what he wants.
>>77931464
Reform is only possible through dissent.
Dissent is ignored within the EU.
>>77932496
And as for free trade, the UK sends most of its exports to countries outside of the EU and we buy more from them than they do from us so why the fuck would they hurt their own economies by imposing tariffs? The lobbyists won't allow it.
And to address the question about who is in charge, it's the EU commission, they have full executive power and can overrule the parliament and national governments
>>77931464
If we leave the EU:
>more opportunities for trading with other nations, our trade deals get torpedoed all the time by other countries
>we have only 10% of the MEPs, but contribute the second largest amount of money to the EU
>the money we send to the EU would be better spent here, with 2/3 of it going to other EU countries.
>EU funded projects can be maintained using part of this money.
>the savings from this can be used to upgrade infrastructure or lower national debt.
>the EU regularly overturn referendum results that don't go the way they want to.
>the EU are going to want to integrate us further, we'll become part of the eurozone and the EU superstate.
>>77933797
>>77933546
>>77933347
idk guys i still dont get it
can you give me any citations on stuff you're saying
>>77931986
More importantly an educated intelligent middle class lad wouldn't be posting on 4chan.
>>77934084
Staying in the EU will assure thousands of dying children refugees will have a home and food. This should be reason enough to vote remain
>>77934084
>idk guys i still dont get it
>can you give me any citations on stuff you're saying
Do you follow politics at all?
>>77931464
1. £350 million of our money is taken by the EU every week. And the rebate is a red herring, that's money that goes to subsidizing empty fields. That could fund a new hospital.
2. France let in one of the terrorists in the Paris attacks. You can't trust the EU when it comes to managing immigration.
3. The EU is the reason we have to have scotiish and welsh parliaments, which cost us for doing effectively nothing but dividing our country.
4. Democracy- British representatives haven't been allowed to discuss economic affairs in many meetings because we're not part of the Euro we're a round peg in a square hole.
>>77931464
Vote leave please and hopefully it will cause a chain reaction.
Hell, I would fucking leave if I had the choice.
The EU is nothing more than a happy leftist dictatorship.
I understand that it's hard being mad at something that preaches peace and safe spaces but in the end it's not about you but about power.
>>77932028
Look at the Common Agricultural Policy. It completely disrupts the free market to appeal to corporations and farmers. Also, the EU is socially progressive, obsessed with its arbitrary "human rights" which usually demand intervention from the government for fulfilment.
>>77933798
>The Commission itself is currently comprised of 28 EU Commissioners. Each member state has the opportunity to nominate a Commissioner who is then endorsed collectively by MEPs after a series of public hearings
sounds like they're elected
also all our trade deals are currently based on us being in the eu afaik; if we leave we'll have to renegotiate every one of them which will take decades
>>77934045
>more opportunities for trading with other nations, our trade deals get torpedoed all the time by other countries
im not sure about this; from what I heard lots of the reason we manage to get trade deals is because we can grant access to the rest of the eu when we enter a trade deal with a 3rd party
>we have only 10% of the MEPs, but contribute the second largest amount of money to the EU
ye thats unfair i guess. it shouldnt be done by moeny tho imo, the issue is more how underrepresented we are in terms ofhow much each individuals vote counts
>the money we send to the EU would be better spent here, with 2/3 of it going to other EU countries.
sure, but the eu does send us some support in return, and we gain from it in other ways i think
>EU funded projects can be maintained using part of this money.
maybe
>the savings from this can be used to upgrade infrastructure or lower national debt.
>the EU regularly overturn referendum results that don't go the way they want to.
citations?
>the EU are going to want to integrate us further, we'll become part of the eurozone and the EU superstate.
cameron's recent talks with eu seems to have gone well in moving us further away from this direction tho desu
>>77934243
only a little bit
>>77934277
i dont really buy the terrorist arguments; it all seems like fear mongering to me seeing as how tiny the number of people who die to terrorist attacks is annually
afaik cameron's recent talks with eu helped with point 4 too
>>77934369
how do eu preach safe spaces
isnt anti immigration is about racists maintaining their safe spaces
>>77934873
Vote with your heart. Your heart says to stay. The Brexit people are greedy.
>>77934873
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/gender-pay-gap/index_en.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Climate_Change_Programme
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jon-ashworth/iain-duncan-smith_b_9887772.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-mp-declares-older-white-8091039
http://fra.europa.eu/en
They have their fingers in all the progressive pies, it's whole being is progressive.
>>77934277
I'm voting leave but I had no idea about point 3. Got a source on that?
>>77935115
im not coming here for people to reinforce my current views, im looking for people to give me good arguments against my current view, stuff to google and reasons why stuff i think is wrong or doesnt matter
>>77935264
he's chatting complete shit on that one, that was a Labour policy designed to make Wales and Scotland Labour strongholds. In fact I remember that countries like Spain disliked it because it reignited demands from the Basque and Catalans to be autonomous
>>77935221
whats so bad about reducing the pay gap
even if it isnt a majpr problem in the uk, i imagine it is a major problem in some parts of the eu
whats wrong with tacking climate change? do people here think climate change isn't happening? imo it's better to try to do something than nothing
whats wrong with eu helpong social justice
i stoped reading there; im not sure we share values. why do you think these things are all bad?
>>77935303
What are your political leanings? How could you be for the EU if you are against progressives?
>>77935733
Troll and leftist fgt.
>>77935303
There are no good arguments against remain. Just accept what your heart is trying to tell you. Think of the children at stake.
>>77932496
>why should a british unqualified guy have an easier time in the uk than a qualified chink
you're clearly a lost cause
because the chink is a chink and the brit is a brit, if you can't accept this then you're never going to understand why we need to leave the EU, you have fundamentally failed to grasp the mindset of those who see the EU to be the thinly veiled globalist experiment designed to eliminate individuality that it is.
>>77931464
Not sure if posted already but in the long run Brexit is for the best.
If Britain remains the eu, panicked by the near run with Brexit, will make a rush to federalise into a united states of Europe.
Opinion has already become very polarised between the neo-con/liberal/centrists (effectively the globalist position) and the rise of a new far right nationalism. combined with ethnic tensions, both between native ethnic groups and new immigrants federalised europe is a civil war waiting to happen, imagine Yugoslavia with 500 million people.
If Britain leaves it will begin a consensual dissolution of the eu, state by state, as france, which will likely elect the FN into power next year will have their own referendum. This even leaves the possibility that a new European union could be formed on better terms.
Personally I don't care about the economic arguments. the risk of getting a crappy economy next year seems much more preferable than the risk of getting a massive europe-wide war ten or even twenty years down the road.
>>77931464
Fuck off Cameron. Vote Leave!
>>77933798
No UK exports mostly to EU
>>77931464
How will you change the union and the way it's headed by remaining?
I agree, being alone is definitely not a good choice for any European country, but we need to destroy this union in order to build something new.
350000 a year for the forseeable future
What houses will they live in?
What schools will their children attend?
Will the NHS cope? How?
Where will their electricity come from?
Bearing in mind all of our infrastructure is already shit, how will it cope?
>>77935734
why should i be against progressives?
>>77935873
>I don't feel threatened by them, but I'm sick that I have to pay for them loitering around
afaik after referendum we'll be kicking them out if they cant get a job within 6 months, so thats enough right?
>>77935995
>because the chink is a chink and the brit is a brit
why can't this same argument apply for
>the european is a european
it's the same kind of argument, it's just about where you choose to draw the border. why draw it at the uk?
>>77936046
needs unanimous agreement to join, has been trying for 30 years or something, still hasnt fulfilled all criteria to join, isn't too shit a country anyway afaik
>>77936052
the crappy econonomy would last decades (trade agreements take years each, and we'd have to remake 70+, unlikely to be able to do more than 2-5 at a time), and possibly never recover fully due to us not being able to give access to the european shared market when we sign trade agreements with 3rd parties (which is a big bargaining tool for us atm afaik)
>>77936347
if we have more financial crisis and our economy gets far worse do you expect our infrastructure to improve?
>>77931464
Ask yourself, If we were not a member of the EU would we want to join it?
Let's cut to the chase, It's basically choosing to have better relationships with one of the following:
EU - you already know
Asia - a dice roll, could be better or worse for UK, nobody knows
>>77936711
why not? shared market and free travel and all that stuff seems cool :^)
>>77931464
What do you expect from the EU in the future?
Is your decision made on economic arguments? Because the European Economic Community predates the EU and will exist when Brussels has gone up in flames.
The arguments that are made about a recession and widespread misery and poverty the day you leave the EU are just fearmongering. Europe would trade and cooperate just fine after a Brexit as it has done before the EU. I would protest in the streets in Germany personally if they would try to isolate and punish another country for leaving this moloch. The EU is about control not about friendship and peace.
The UK is in a phantastic position: It's large enough to stand on it's own two feet and decide it's own future and it's large enough to make the Brexit a damning verdict about this bureaucratic, undemocratic monster.
>>77931464
>I'm an educated intelligent middle class lad and I'm probably going to vote remain.
The first sentence shows that you're neither smart or know what it means to live with shitskins.
You will regret the decision to vote remain in a few years. Believe me.
Britain has always the chance to get back in, but you only have one chance to get out of this hellhole that's called EU.
>>77934873
Just vote leave, there won't change that much for you Brits.
But you would do us a great favour.
Just visit Brussels. And especially the suburbs.
See what the EU immigration policy is doing for our once still ugly but nice capital.
>>77936614
>it's the same kind of argument, it's just about where you choose to draw the border. why draw it at the uk?
are you really so ignorant of history, or are you just an immigrant yourself? the uk has never been part of europe in the same way that france, spain and germany have. continentals have far more in common with each other than we do with them. each country has its own culture, but a land border dilutes the differences far more than a sea border. it's the same with the nordic countries and continental europe - they shouldn't really be part of the EU either, for the same reason. the EU is led by continental europeans, who for the most part have more similarities with each other than we do with them.
>>77936614
There won't be a european shared market. Brexit will cause more countries in the EU to leave. The purpose of voting brexit is to end the EU.
Did even reply to the right post there, or did you not read what I'd written, or am I just falling for a shitty Baitposter.
>>77936614
Dodging the question lol
I have asked the same question to every remain voter and so far noone can answer it
>>77936925
>Britain has always the chance to get back in
likely on far worse terms than currently
>you only have one chance to get out
why only one chance to get out and always chance to get back in?
>>77936884
i don't think they would try and punish the uk, its more it'd be considerably more awkward for anyone to do anything with us, as our regulations would differ from those of the eu (having to keep with eu regulations seem to be a big argument for why brexiters hate the eu) and we wouldnt allow the free movement all eu countries have between each other. this would inevitably reduce trade with eu countries
>>77937300
are we really that different though?
>>77937419
>Brexit will cause more countries in the EU to leave. The purpose of voting brexit is to end the EU.
im not sure this will happen desu
why do you think it will
>>77931464
You claim to be educated; yet you cannot see through Project Fear?
You cannot see that their numbers are literally spin?
They cannot provide a single good reason to stay within the EU [The economy is not one; look at the Euro and the Euro Economy. Both Brexit and Remain have uncertainty]. Which is why; from the very start; they have resorted to a combination of Project Fear and endorsements from people with massive vested interests with the EU [EG: Multinationals who trade with the EU].
Meanwhile; the leave camp brings actual valid points [Immigration is unsustainably high and putting massive pressure on the NHS; Schools; Prisons and Housing]; has no greater risk than staying in does [Eurozone collapse; having to bail out Italy/Spain/Greece again]; gives us sovreignity back and allows us to sort out trade deals on our own accord; which we cannot curreently do. Did you know we do not have a trade deal with the USA because the EU stops us? Or how about Commonwealth countries such as Australia; India and Canada? Any economic doom and gloom is obliterated by the length of the queue of nations who would leap at the chance to trade with us. China or the USA alone is a better trading partner than the entire EU.
And honestly; you know Remain has no valid points when they do things like threaten WW3; and their most recent thing; threatening an immediate 'punishment budget' of cuts to the NHS; Schools; Pensions and literally everything. Except Foreign Aid of course. Which we pay more in GDP % than any other country in the world. By far.
>>77931464
Go visit London and determine if you want all of the UK to look like that in the next fifty years.
>>77937606
>why only one chance to get out and always chance to get back in?
Do you really think Brussel would let you have a second chance? That's pretty naive and shows again, that you're not a very smart person.
It's my guess, that OP just wants to bait here.
>>77931464
I started remain, then switched to leave. Ignoring all the shit and guilt tripping going on, I don't think the EU can stop making up rules and regulations. The whole point of their existence would cease to be once they have made a rule for everything in our lives.
The only place left for them to go will be to start regulating you. And they will.
Canada, AUS and the US all belong to the elite of nations worldwide - there is no reason while the Anglo homeland shouldn't handle freedom any more less successfully.
>>77937606
On the Brexit will cause more countries to leave thing:
Almost 50% of people in France want a Referendum
The Netherlands wants one
And that's BEFORE anti-EU parties see that iot can be done and the public see that it can be done and how much the EU holds things back. If they see Brexit happen; and Britain is the better for it in a couple of years; every net contributor will want to leave. Except Germany; of course; because the EU is really HRE #2; another attempt for the Germans to take over Europe.
Do you really think this will change when a net contributor leaves the EU; thus making these countries have to stump more more cash to cover the British Surplus that has suddenly vanished?
England can't get a fair deal in Europe.
...But anon.. send a better team next time..
Tony Blair it probably ain't.
Sorry.
Ok, free trade..
Boots still an English company?
Because they manufacture in China for some reason.
Not convinced about safeguarding English jobs?
Muh jobs!
Well most your fruit n veg probably comes from Europe.
Need a better pice for em?
Send a tesco representative
>>77937685
both campaigns seem to be more about fear, but more from the leave campaign as far as i can see
http://euromove.org.uk/how-can-we-get-the-most-out-trade-with-the-eu-and-the-commonwealth/
seems to disagree with lots of what you're saying
>you know Remain has no valid points when they do things like threaten WW3
some guy in this thread actually said WW3 would happen if we didn't vote leave,
ive never heard anyone saying ww3 would happen if we left
>>77938098
its not about how well we can handle leaving, it's about whether it'd be better to stay or not
>>77937606
Euroscepticism has been rising throughout Europe.
Le Pen has promised if elected France will hold an EU referendum. Wilders in Holland has also been pushing for an EU referendum.
If Brexit is going to harm the British economy it will certainly also hurt mainland Europe, the loss of a major contributor, a major receiver of European imports, etc. The rising nationalist parties across europe will likely take advantage of this and there will be push from within each country to leave the EU
>http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/half-of-europeans-want-referendum-on-eu-membership-1.2640744
>>77931736
>brexit movie
You do realise that they literally ctrl f words in EU laws to overstate the burden of regulation, right? The argument might be alright but that movie is shoddily made.
Looking at your post so far OP, you don't sound intelligent or educated.
>>77939128
You and a lot of others in this thread surely do sound intelligent and educated :)
:)
:)
:)
>>77932496
Don't confuse free trade with the common market. Common market is a shitbasket weird ass bullshit attempt at 'levelling the playing field'. To be in the common market, you will need to open borders to dirty dirty gyppos.
But free trade doesn't require that.
>>77937685
>Foreign Aid of course. Which we pay more in GDP % than any other country in the world. By far.
Such basic fact and you got it wrong. The cuck countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Luxembourg) spend more in GDP than the UK. The UK only managed to hit the 0.7% target a few years ago actually.
>>77931464
BECAUSE FUCK GLOBALISM
>intelligent
>probably going to vote remain
>intelligent
>probably going to vote remain
>intelligent
>probably going to vote remain
>>77936848
You dont need to be an EU citizen to have free travel. My Australian gf travels freely throughout the EU with no problems at all, no visa required, even gets to use the shorter "non EU passports" queue at airports.
You swallowed the "free travel" meme.
>>77939944
Lucky she's not mexican
>>77937772
This. I visited last month and the amount of immigrants who couldn't speak a word of English was disgusting.
>>77939250
:)
PLEBBIT
:)
>intelligent and successful person
>probably in a good position at a big multinational corporation that favours remain
What's the problem with this? Brexit may be good for the ordinary, simple folk but if you're an elite it makes perfect sense to vote remain. I don't see what intelligence has to do with this.
>>77938807
Yeah. I love how people think this is only in the UK. It's across all of Europe.
>>77931464
Remain favors the corporates, banks, government and welfare recipients, all of whom rely on political power to entrench their position.
Anyway as the above poster points out, the EU is wildly unpopular. If we vote remain and the economy crashes, it will cause civil war.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/eugovernmentdeficitanddebtreturnincludingmaastrichtsupplementarydatatables/2015-10-16
>>77933125
>immigration
>why is this so bad
Leave my /pol right now, and never come back you jizz gargling faggot.
