>Those weren't TRUE socialist countries. That was just state capitalism
>See Socialism works in the real world. Just look at all these Nordic social democracies!
>>77826079
Socialism is a mental illness
>>77826079
>B-b-b-b-but it wasn't real socialism!
>We need another chance!
Anyone got the gif?
I don't understand this cult of republicans that think socialism is the end of civilization. Basically every first world country has heavy socialism, except for the United States.
Agree with socialism or not; you're free to your opinion. But don't be a fucking knuckle dragger and say that Stalin and Mao are "your case study of socialism" (-Louder with Crowder).
Calling the USSR socialist is like calling the democratic republic of the Congo capitalist.
Sweden Norway Finland et al aren't socialism either. They're capitalism with a strong welfare state.
>>77826867
Socialism is defined as the state owning all factors of production in an economy.
The USSR owned all factors of production in its country.
>>77826778
Venezuela?
>>77827127
>hurr, politics is black and white!
Can we agree that this socialism debate is so widely discussed because of Bernie Sanders, with all this anti-socialism rhetoric being a reaction to some of his policies? I don't like his policies either, but his socialist policies would no abolish capitalism. Saying something like "Sweden Norway Finland et al aren't socialism either" is utterly useless, because you just described the difference between SOCIALISM and COMMUNISM.
>>77826778
So we should view social democracy as the real socialism, rather than socialism?
>>77826778
Does socialism just mean High taxes at this point? Are we arguing about Taxes? What happened to owning the means of production or planned markets?
i just had this argument with a muslim lady at Trump's rally in The Woodlands.
she said Venezuela doesn't have "true socialism" because their politicians are corrupt and didn't implement it correctly.
i told her that as long as humans are the ones running governments, there will be corruption, so her idea of socialism working is pure idealism.
then she pointed out european socialist countries that, in her opinion, are doing well.
i brought up the 200 rapes in germany because of open borders influenced by the socialist need for more taxpayers.
i wish i could tell you that she saw the light but the conversation just took a turn into religion i think.
>>77826079
Both of these statementa are usually correct.
You have to be dumb as a brick to blame socialism for what happened in USSR and South America.
You could have a fucking totalitarian dictatorship in a country that was 99% white people and it would work.
>>77826747
>>77827735
>>77827788
Ok so enlighten me. What is the difference between communism and socialism to you?
>>77826778
>Everything the government does in a capitalist country is socialism
>Actual declared socialist countries where the means of production were almost entirely owned by the government aren't valid case studies of socialism
>>77827499
High corruption and economy based on the exportation of one single product: oil.
>>77827918
>influenced by the socialist need for more taxpayers
You're a retard and you probably failed highschool
>>77826079
No True Scotsman.
>>77826079
>socialism / communism fails
>i-it was because of capitalism!
>Trump picks Ben Carson as VP (hypothetically)
>i-it's because he's racist!
See the way that works?
>>77828244
It's socialists' favorite magic trick
>>77828108
The state destroyed all the corn farms and took over toilet paper factories. I thought thats the goal of socialism? Results: no food no toilet paper.
>B-b-but it wusnt rial sucialismmm D::
>>77828351
how is life? Is it really going down the gutter or are those just memes?
>>77828182
lol
socialist programs are funded by taxes
germany will have more pensioners than taxpayers soon
importation of taxpayers is one solution to this problem
>>77828351
>inb4 Canadian and American teenagers start lecturing Venezuelan flag about what happened in Venezuela
>>77828102
Trashing socialism because of communist dictatorships is the equivalent of binning capitalism for the great depression and the 2008 market crash. It's a boneheaded argument to make, and it's painfully simplistic. But, I guess it makes sense because you're a simpleton.
And yes, capitalist governments can have socialist implementations, you fucktard. True capitalism would have people starve to death in the streets and all industry moving to shitskin countries where the labour is cheap. This isn't to say that capitalism is totally bad, I'm just trying to show you that your criticism of socialism is overly simplistic.
>>77826867
>>77828515
Really going down the gutter. The state will start distributing the little food available via "claps", our own version of the soviets.
>>77828546
>It was a corrupted government!
>Socialism works just fine in denmark/niggersweeden etc!!
This shit triggers me so much
>>77826778
Socialism = public ownership of the means of production. In practice, the government overseers the allocation of resources, not the workers or whatever bullshit leftists like to say. Doesn't work, see Venezuela.
Welfare state = rest of the world that isn't completely fucking retarded. The government is in charge of the provision of some goods and services (basics like infrastructure, education, healthcare, transportation), not all like in true socialism. In less retarded countries, it also doesn't have completely stupid, arbitrary regulations of property, so that the individual can start their own enterprises rather unhampered. My country is an example of the retarded welfare state, the Nordic ones are examples of the less retarded variant.
>>77829351
Socialism is the future
Get used to it or get in the gulag
>>77828527
importing illiterate idiots =/= importing taxpayers
>>77830332
>Full world communism
>>77830332
>>77830456
no argument about that
the plan isn't to keep them in the illiterate idiot category
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germany-nears-new-plans-on-migrant-integration-more-help-but-tougher-rules/2016/05/25/2be5d702-21b6-11e6-b944-52f7b1793dae_story.html
"...the law will make it easier for private employers across Germany to hire refugees, meaning the newcomers could enjoy more economic prospects even in small- and medium-sized communities offering a better chance to assimilate into mainstream German life."
>>77830332
Yeah, I'm sure you'll be part of the ruling elite, beady eyed anglo scum.
>>77830332
>1840s: Socialism is the Future get used to it
>1890s: Socialism is the Future get used to it
>1930s: Socialism is the Future get used to it
>1960s: Socialism is the Future get used to it
>Today: TRUE socialism is the Future get used to it
>>77831085
It's subsidized shit work to keep them busy. Keeping parks clean is not a priority for anyone. Literally 1€ per hour for being busy. It's bucket money, nothing more. They will never ever be as useful as german people. And jobs are ultimately created by the consumers' demands, not by government saying there is a need for clean parks. There isn't much low skill labor in Germany and the minimum wage will make it impossible to get them into the job market. There is no way, NO WAY they will integrate and be useful in the next 25 years.
>>77831887
it seems we agree entirely, where's the beef?
i think it lies in the intentions of the government. the government believes, or at least seems to believe, that these jobs are just the first step in the integration process. the end goal of this process is to have them be productive, taxpaying members of German society.
kek I used this idiotic arguments all the time when I were a young anarcho-communist shit.
It's just a phase for most of them.
Socialism is NEET utopia. Take me for example:
1. Study for free at uni
2. Get paid monthly for studying for free at uni
3. Can go to the doctor for free, i don´t need to tho since i dont have shit genes
and if your fucked you can take an extremely cheap loan on top of what you get for free
N E E T
E
E
T
L I V I N G
Literally every successful country in the world has a mixed economy. A capitalist free market with some "socialist" characteristics -- regulation to prevent abuses of the market, subsidies for key industries, and a safety net so that few people fall into truly crushing poverty (which damages the economy and hurts us all.)
In the Anglo world, most self-described socialists support this system, same as you do. They just want slightly (not overwhelmingly) more regulation and a larger safety net than you do.
Doesn't sound so scary when you put it that way, huh?
>>77832147
hallo
>>77832147
Hello, country with the best historical example of a prosperous form of socialism.
>>77832471
We got similar programs for years now. There are two ways this can go: The jobs have no purpose and in the end the state is just throwing money away or somehow the government decides to make programs so people can work slave wages for actual jobs. They will _of course_ punish people denying this slave work by cutting the monthly pay, because "they don't try hard enough" to find a real job. They did programs like this with homeless people helping in factories, some cities even tried paying homeless with beer, abusing alcoholics for cheap labor. The turnout of the reintegration into the workforce was rather low. However, I am especially critical of forced integration through labor. The refugees won't have much social contact with other people in their jobs since they obviously lack language and therefore social skills. You will read a few articles of perfect integration, but in general, no one talks to the janitors, the cleaning ladies and no one will talk to them. In the end they will continue their ghetto life in their public housing and begin to complain about "not enough jobs", when they clearly lack the skills. They will never make enough to invest into something or climb the ladder in any shape or form. I would love to be proven wrong, but for now I think the future is dark.
>>77832995
You're not in a socialist state bro.
>>77833967
>prosperous
>exporting literally rocks to get some dosh
>even the trabant was shit
>when daddy USSR was dying they collapsed too
Gr8b8m8wouldreplyagain
>>77834426
I think he's talking about the national socialists, not the commies.
>>77832995
>>77826079
Socialism can work. If it's blended with healthy nationalism. World socialism doesn't work.
>>77834093
Shall we declare a unification of our countries Ragnar?
>>77834584
Lets hope he wuz
>>77826778
>Basically every first world country has heavy socialism
A FUCKING LEAF
The fact of the matter is you can get any government system to work if all the people in it want it to work.
Civilization has thrived under every government throughout history because the most important part of it is that the people are willing to do what they need to do and not just what they want to do. Different governments are just different shaped hives for the bees that are the people. If the bees work, the hive works.
When you see a failed country or government it is solely because of the people, and not any arbitrary property such as government or religion.
>>77835011
Muh oil.
Fingerene av oljefatet mitt, Jens.
>>77835363
this
>Civilization has thrived under every government throughout history except communism
I fixed that for you, bernie.
>>77835605
That's because communism is for twats.
>>77835605
Is for
>>77835363
>Posting from mobile
>Ever
>>77826079
>those weren't true capitalist countries. That was just crony capitalism
>see capitalism works in the real world. just look at these .....um..... oh wait, it doesn't work anywhere.
All countries have a mixture of capitalism and socialism. some have less socialism than others but they have socialism nonetheless.
>>77828579
>True capitalism would have people starve to death in the streets and all industry moving to shitskin countries where the labour is cheap.
and that's not the single most stupidly oversimplified argument a socialist has ever trotted out?
Do go on about how black the kettle is though, Mr. Pot.
social democracy works because it's a mixture of capitalism and socialism. complete socialism leads to dictatorship and complete capitalism leads to the rich getting wealthier as the poor get poorer.
>>77828579
>implying socialist states don't tend to fall towards totalitarianism inherently
>True capitalism would have people starve to death in the streets
>I'm just trying to show you that your criticism of socialism is overly simplistic.
>You can't talk about Venezuela. You just can't. It's 2015. Le'ts go back to talking about Denmark
Liberalism is glaucoma of the mind.
>>77833998
you are 100% right. we have the same problem with illegal immigration here. who's going to pay a citizen $20/hr when you can pay 4 illegals $5/hr?
i dont think this is deluded thinking by far-left liberals. i think what is actually happening is they are importing VOTERS.
they say that their goal is integration but i think that's a lie. even if that is their real motivation, they are going about it in the worst way possible: wholesale importation of all the problems that come with a failed islamic society.
>>77835379
We...we don´t care about the oil
socialism works pretty well here desu
itt: DUDE THE ROADS WHO WILL TAKE OUT THE TRASH THE GOVERNMENT STILL EXISTS AND DOES THINGS AND SPENDS MONEY IN CAPITALISM SO THE SOCIALISTS WIN AGAIN BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME KID
>>77836829
Are the means of production privately owned?
this is what socialism looks like
>>77836576
Well, the left is morally corrupt. They openly abused alcoholics in Germany. They lie all the time to get their agenda through. What they don't know is, their agenda is the biggest lie of them all. That's what so frustrating. You reveal one common "truth" as lie and they will still continue to blindly follow every other of their "truths". I can't argue with every individual for hours, someone has to find a better way.
>>77836948
>shanghai
>socialist
k
Funny how you saw China not become a complete third world shithole when they implemented capitalist practices
>>77835199
I was. Hitler's economic recovery was nothing short of miraculous.
>>77836829
That's because you transitioned from a capitalist state after resources out your ass into a NEET utopia. In 20 years your government will collapse if it continues how it is.
>>77836829
>falling for the scandinavian socialism meme
>>77827918
Why didn't you just tell her that European countries aren't really socialist.
>>77837407
that aint' china it's oil cartel city
>>77827918
>then she pointed out european socialist countries that, in her opinion, are doing well.
Those countries did well while their populations remained homogeneous. Immigration is starting to put a strain on them.
>>77826079
>You can't overdose on heroin, that guy just took it wrong.
>See heroin isn't deadly. Just look at that guy doing heroin and he's not dead(yet)!
Liberals don't seem to understand that Scandinavian countries are capitalistic free markets with welfare states funded by taxes. This is not socialism.
Hell, in some ways the Scandinavian economies are more laissez-faire than the US. For example they have no minimum wage codified in government law, minimums are set by collection bargaining agreements between unions/employees and businesses (i.e. private parties coming to an agreement that is mutually beneficial to all without government feeling the need to get involved).
>>77829351
>>77837622
>>77840066
>>77840487
>>77828579
>True capitalism would have people starve to death in the streets
leaf/10
>>77828579
What a dumb leafcuck. Don't you think a capitalist won't see the business opportunity of selling cheap low-quality food/products to people?
Oh wait, they do so already. Somebody arrest these evil capitalist men for preventing starvation!
Democratic socialist countries have been economically stagnant for decades. The accumulated wealth from past capitalistic growth phases is gradually being squandered by expanding government and govt spending. They've been covering up the ill effects with the tools and artificial manipulations possible with central banking and fiat currencies. The 2008 financial crisis was essentially a crack in the facade that gave you a glimpse of the ugly, failing machinery that lies underneath -- a preview of what's to come.
The inherent inefficiencies of socialist central planning, the insatiable taxation maw of big govt, and regulatory capture by unbridled corporatism (fascism in the literal sense) stifling the free market are all cooperating to engineer the biggest collapse of all time.
>>77828579
so many people starved during the 2008 market crash, I can't believe how hard it hit the western world. Oh, whoopsie, everything turned out fine and everything's A-OK
>>77837564
National Socialists weren't socialists. They were pseudo-autarkic capitalists and supported Aryans starting private businesses within Germany
