http://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9454161/gun-violence-solution
http://www.businessinsider.com/australia-gun-control-shootings-2016-6
>researchers from two different Australian universities found that in the decade after the NFA became law, the firearm homicide rate fell by 59% and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65% — without increases in other types of deaths.
Don't listen to the lies from the NRA. They are just a bunch of jews who want us goys to keep killing each other.
>>77691279
Even if that's true, it doesn't justify the loss of freedom.
>>77691279
I'd like to see Australia's violent crime rate
>>77691394
I want the freedom to visit a nightclub without being gunned down by some kebab.
>>77691394
>it doesn't justify the loss of freedom
What loss of freedom? The freedom for nut cases and terrorists to buy guns? Why are you allowing mongoloids and butchers to freely arm themselves?
>>77691394
Freedom of what? I'll never get this.
Big deal you got to do a driving license except for guns and then a psych test to determine if you're a retard.
Nobodys gonna steal you guns away retards, mostly because they literally can't right now. But whats so bad about having peopel take gun tests to see if they're stable enough to shoot AR-15?
Australia
92% white
A fucking island
>>77691279
By the looks of it it was falling even without that ban
That decrease was a result of harsh gang crackdowns and mandatory minimums for drugs you fucking mong
>>77691559
Gun deaths were already down
>>77691449
I want the freedom to shoot a home invader without being considered a murderer.
As a statistician with no stakes in the matter, I have to say the trend really seems to pre-date the policy change.
Gun deaths throughout the industrialized west have been declining for decades. The graph prior to the ban clearly shows a downward trend. If the gun ban in Australia had been more effective, that is shown an even more drastic drop in gun deaths immediately after the ban was put in place, then the measure would be seen to be more effective.
Also, word has it that immediately after the gun ban, and every year since there has been a steady rise in home invasions in Australia. Criminals taking advantage of the lack of risk to harm or death at the hands of armed homeowners.
>>77691531
That's not what happened in Australia, you knuckle dragging retard. Google "concealed carry in Australia."
Regardless, what your suggesting is that the government has the right to determine who is sane and who isn't. And ONLY the government.
How about you post a chart of just the murder rate after gun control?
If niggas don't have guns then they're gonna use knifes and shit.
>>77691279
Now show me how big of an impact the gun ban had on homicides overall.
When I'm dead it doesn't matter if I got shot or stabbed to death
>>77691279
GUNS ARE BANNED IN MEXICO
WE ARE DEFENSELESS AGAINST CRIMINALS AND CARTELS.
GUNS ARE BANNED HERE, BANNED!
>>77691279
Dishonest graph. What about other deaths, stabbings, beatings, etc?
reminder that US gun deaths have dropped significantly since 1994 (80 or 50%) and most of the guncrimes are committed by nignog gangs
sage
Notice how it says 'gun deaths'
gun deaths also includes suicide. I wonder how many of the gun deaths that are no more occuring where from suicides. Banning guns doesn't decrease suicide, people will commit suicide in a different way instead.
>>77691946
Many people who try to commit suicide and get rescued , recover and say they regretted trying to commit suicide.
If you commit suicide with pills , there's a chance the hospital can rescue you . If you shoot yourself in the head , there's no chance of getting saved.
>>77691559
>>77691604
I ran the statistical tests, it's called a "Quandt Likelihood Ratio" and it tests, whether there is significant evidence towards the assumption that a timeseries displays a break in its distribution
there is a p = 0% chance that there is not a break at the end of the red shit
>>77691279
Why do I care about gun deaths? What about murder rate? What about suicide rate? What about criminal rape? What about unreported crime rate?
Especially the last one. Why the fuck wherever the gun controller appears, third of assault crimes goes unreported?
>>77691279
It doesn't matter what weapon someone uses to kill. What are Australia's total homicide stats over that same period? I heard it dropped around 70%. Well, our homicide rates dropped +30% over the same period and we did it without banning guns. Imagine if we had no blacks.
When people look for the quick easy fix, it is usually not well thought out and poorly addresses the underlining problem.
>>77692112
>If you shoot yourself in the head , there's no chance of getting saved.
except you're wrong, there's plenty of cases where niggas fuck it up by shooting their temple
>>77692260
How do you know how many crimes are unreported if they're...you know, unreported
>>77691279
Holy fuck. Firearm homicide fell and was replaced with other weapons. This is disgusting whoever reads and writes this shit deserves a painful execution
>>77692442
>>researchers from two different Australian universities found that in the decade after the NFA became law, the firearm homicide rate fell by 59% and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65% — without increases in other types of deaths.
/thread
>>77691279
if anything gun deaths decelerated when they enacted gun control
>>77691279
Because they're kids
There comes a time when you stop talking to them and yank them by the collar. You have to put them in their place so they know the hierarchy between children and adults
A stern hand is needed, particularly in this country
>>77692487
Interesting that just a year after a 1996-2006, it spikes >>77691604
Reminder that, while gun related violence in "muh gun control" countries is down, violence without guns goes up to meet the difference.
>>77691279
Check the trend on Aussie homicides.
>deaths
>>77692763
Shit defense moron
>>77691279
Why don't you admit that it is a fundamental right of citizens of the United States of America to be able to bear arms?
>already declining before
I wonder what it would look like if you pushed the date back.
>>77692873
why tho
>gun ban
>australia
Literally the only people who use guns to commit crime are members of organized crime, and those fucks have direct ties to people like, I dunno, THE ITALIAN MAFIA, MEXICAN CARTELS, AND ARMS DEALERS IN EX SOVIET STATES.
GET FUCKED AND STOP THIS SHIT.
>>77692928
Because it's idiotic
>>77692977
yeah but why tho
>>77692763
>>77692820
>>researchers from two different Australian universities found that in the decade after the NFA became law, the firearm homicide rate fell by 59% and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65% — without increases in other types of deaths.
>>77692909
only in a "well-regulated militia". Gun control is a form of regulation/
>>77691279
How do you explain overall violent rates going down in America year after year, even though we have all these guns? Also, this statistic doesn't prove that gun control was the cause of the drop in gun deaths, there are many other factors that can play into this; if this wasn't the case, then with all these recent gun sales you'd see a surge in violent crime. On top of all this, even if a direct link was proven, just because it works in Australia doesn't mean it would work everywhere else in the world. How do you account for all the countries in south America where citizens aren't allowed to have guns and there is a ton of gun crime? How is that possible? These entire countries are gun free zones, so how did that happen? I'm guessing it was Donald Trump's fault or something kek
>>77693052
>only in a "well-regulated militia". Gun control is a form of regulation
Shouldn't the first year after the ban be 0 gun deaths?
>>77693016
How old are you?
>>77693052
>>researchers from two different Australian universities found that in the decade after the NFA became law, the firearm homicide rate fell by 59% and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65% — without increases in other types of deaths.
>no source
>doesn't correlate with homicide statistics
5/5
>>77692138
The most relevant anti-gun comment in this thread and yet goes "unnoticed"
>just /pol/ things
>>77692112
Nigger what the fuck is it to you what I do with my own body. Whether or not I regret a choice has no bearing on the freedom to make it. By that logic we ought to ban smoking.
Suicide is a human right and I want a painless and fast method of it.
>>77691279
>admit gun control works
Like in the UK?
>>77693052
>only in a "well-regulated militia". Gun control is a form of regulation/
Nobody ever posts the whole thing:
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
The whole concept is that we need police and military forces to keep the country safe, so common citizens are granted the right to have firepower equal to them, in case they become tyrannical.
>>77693177
why aren't you answering me tho
>>77691279
Get rid of every illegal alien and nigger in the US and the gun death rate starts looking pretty decent overnight.
>>77691449
If you go to a night club you deserve death anyway.
>>77693052
We have militias here. I guess you're saying if we join a local militia we can keep our guns?
>>77691279
I hear castration is a highly effective form of birth control too! Let's burn the whole forest down to get rid of that wolf problem.
>>77693230
>have firepower equal to them,
Why aren't you asking the gov't to let civilians use grenade launchers , landmines and rocket launchers like the army does?
It would be nuts for civilians to have firepower equal to the military.
>>77693052
Why do outsiders care do much about our gun laws, you don't live here or have any say In it. Also what's so hard to understand: Shall not be infringed.
>>77691449
>>77691465
>>77691531
The USA is the current imperial hegemony. If this changes or war breaks out the ability to do violence will be key to survival and future material progress. All empires understood this. I am particularly disappointed in you UK.
>>77691279
>going down anyway
>continues to follow trend
>gun law has absolutely no impact whatsoever
wow
>>77693052
Cite the Australian homicide stats, not the gun homicide stats. Look at the basil murder rate.
Taking guns out of the equation didn't lower the murder rate. Meanwhile the US's gun murder (and murder rates) have fallen +50% in the last 20 years, and we have more guns than we did 20 years ago. And more states issuing concealed carry licenses.
>>77692557
Hey thanks bro!
Like I say, history is just one long lesson on why you should never give up your guns.
>>77693190
>>77692138
>implying /pol/ knows, or for that matter care, shit about Statistics.
>MFW its only cucked or declining countries want gun control
>>77691279
'Strailia is a fucking island OP, they can easily regulate trade and what comes in. Here we can get black market weapons from Mexico, Canada and a few other places.
>>77691279
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/knife-killings-on-the-rise-in-australia-as-gun-murders-fall-says-new-criminology-report/story-e6frg6nf-1226581896001
>>77693420
>>77693443
>Shoting someone else with guns is the same as killing yourself with smoking
>Portrayed as the reasonable one of the two
>Probably also think it's reasonable to prohibit drugs even tough it goes against his very argument
God bless Murrica
>>77693424
The fact of the matter is, nobody is asking for these items. This isn't a good point. Nobody is asking for a nuke. We just want our rifles. It's perfectly reasonable.
>It would be nuts for civilians to have firepower equal to the military.
We did it in 1776. Common citizens possessed the same gun of the military. How is it possible that we're all still alive? Clearly we all should have killed each other off at that point, by your logic.
>>77691279
It lowers gun deaths. Now did it lower the global homicide rate in general? That is the question.
>>77693724
>missing the argument
>thinks smoking only kills himself
Go back to raping, Ahmed
>>77693789
>We did it in 1776. Common citizens possessed the same gun of the military. How is it possible that we're all still alive?
Holy shit, are you seriously saying that 1776 military technology had the same destruction power as today?
Do you REALLY think that if you rednecks had access to tanks, rocket launchers, etc it would be the same thing as the Civil War?
>American education strikes once again
>>77694031
You are an inordinate retard if you think the founding fathers were so stupid that they didn't know technology would get better.
>>77693424
>private citizens owned warships and cannons and field guns
I'm of two minds here. I support the idea that citizens should have the same gear as the government. In practice, I think we'd end up with shadowrun-style militarized supercorporations.
Also, I think nukes were the pandora's box that never was envisioned by the founding fathers, and nevr should have been created.
>>77693934
You literally don't kill people by smoking a little in their vecinity. Are you really saying some secondhand smoke from a cigarette is the same as shooting someone? Go back fucking your cousin or something and she can praise your great logic.
>stable countries have declining homicides
WOW even the U.S does this.
>>77694031
I actually think civilians should have access to that, but not nukes, nukes can kill everything and that is bad.
The armies sort of split when the US civil war broke out.
Also, don't you have a coup d'etat to do to? Oh right, you don't like guns. Hillary Clinton's lackey is going to run your country.
>>77693424
People in the US can literally just go straight out and buy fighter jets mate. There are some limitations, but they're mainly to do with arms exports and licenses than strict government policy.
Like fuck, I could buy an F-16, but most of it would be stripped due to ITAR and other arms policies.
I could easily get a grenade launcher, landmines are easy to come by (but it might be hard to get that past the atf), and rocket launchers are pretty easy all things considered, they just cost a lot.
http://www.sm[]h.com.au/news/national/gun-deaths-in-rapid-decline-since-buyback/2006/12/13/1165685752421.html
>"Both found that the rate of gun suicide declined faster after the gun buyback and neither found any significant difference in the rate of decline in gun homicide before and after the gun buyback,"
>"The results on gun suicide [personal choice] and mass shootings [meme that is only responsible for a tiny amount of deaths] are enough reason to be very cautious about reducing the restrictions on gun ownership."
Pic related is armed robberies, get a life bin that knife.
>>77691279
>>77694512
>>77694227
You literally don't kill people by firing in a different direction. Are you really saying chronic smoking poisoning co-workers and household members doesn't kill? Go back to fucking your goat or something and it can bleet your great experience.
>>77694705
>>77693052
Let me help you with this.
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
^
1990-2007 it went between 1.9 and 1.3, currently trending upwards, but that's just a fluctuation.
That's not 50% even remotely, and it hardly constitutes a long-term downward trend.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr-publications
^
America
1995 - 8.2 (per 100k)
1996 - 7.4
1997 - 6.8
1998 - 6.3
1999 - 5.7
2000 - 5.5
2001 - 5.6
2002 - 5.6
2003 - 5.7
2004 - 5.5
2005 - 5.6
2006 - 5.7
2007 - 5.6
2008 - 5.4
2009 - 5.0
2010 - 4.8
2011 - 4.7
2012 - 4.7
2013 - 4.5
2014 - 4.5
Before you start comparing US/Australian rates as apples and oranges, you probably want to educate yourself on population density as correlated to murder. And also be aware that during these years the US saw a pretty big growth in minority populations.
>>77691279
we keep our guns and our lists so we can go full Moonman on niggers like you who have the govt do their dirty work because they are too much of a pussy to do it themselves.
MOLON LABE
>>77694777
>>77694799
Oh, and gun ownership was increasing throughout that 1995-2014 spread, as well as decreased blocks to lawful concealed carry.
Look at Chicago's murder rates before and after the handgun ban was lifted by the SCOTUS.
>>77694880
>>77694711
See this is where you are showing what a redneck shitter you are that can only make the weakest strawmen - something you should be good at since it can reasonably be the only way you argue with your limited capability.
There is no valid research showing that secondhand smoking has even close to significant healthrisk to those close by.
Guns on the other hand are, try to concentrate now, literally used to kill people everyday.
If you cannot see the difference betwen poisoning yourself and killing other people with guns i seriously can't help you.
>>77694777
>misleading figures
The vast majority of crime is white-on-white. Most perpetrators are white and most victims are white.
Given there is larger amount of whites in the populace it is expected that there are more white victims of black crime than vice-versa if black criminals picked victims at random and white criminals picked victims at random from teh populace.
>>77695009
>>77691279
It doesn't show how up the other crimes had the opposite affect
>>77695141
>>77695014
Second hand causing 34,000 heart disease deaths and 7,300 lung cancer deaths a year.
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/
>no sig ificant effects
Gtfo shill there have been many studies on this
>>77695318
>>77691531
Driving license is for using cars on national roads. You can still use and own a car in private areas or fields, can't you?
Therefore:
NOT AN ARGUMENT
>Cucked countries everywhere
>>77695421
>>77695318
>people still don't know what causes SIDS
I find the fact that humans still drop dead and we aren't sure why more serious of a concern than guns. Especially when something like Cancer, or specifically Leukemia, is involved.
>>77691279
Australia doesn't have niggers
>mass shootings under Bush
Virginia Tech
>mass shootings under Obama
Sandy Hook
UCSB
San Bernardino
Orlando
Tennessee
Aurora
we just need to go back to whatever Bush was doing
>>77691279
>Comparing Australia to the US when they have wildly different population densities
Australia is like, 80% bushland.
>>77695141
>Murder
kay, how about assault with a deadly, gun suicide, accidental shootings, and attempted murder?
>>77695546
>>77691279
I dont care about gun deaths
I care about protecting my rights
>>77695608
>gun suicide
what? Why does the method of suicide matter?
>>77695779
Why does any suicide matter
I thought liberals believed in 'muh body muh choice'
>>77691279
>Firearm homicide
>A death by any other weapon
Here's the deal fuckhead
In the US UK and Australia violent crime was trending downwards since the 70s
Take your pick.
>Total violent crime (or per capita ): rape +assault + manslaughter + murder
>Just manslaughter + murder
>Just murder
I know- Freakanomics lol - babby gonna read some Samuelson and Minsky get?
But the causal factors of this trend are believed to come from a variety of abortion and birth control becoming popular, better policing practices, integrating trailer park and ghetto dregs into society, rise in median income and standard of living, reduction of lead in paint and fuel etc.
These causal factors were already in place before Gun restrictions in the latter 2.
So what happened?
Policy makers thought they would see a reduction in
>Total violent crime, or per capita (or component metric )
>Total Massacres, or per capita
Faster than the trend line was extrapolated to go.
What they found was the opposite. Street criminals simply transitioned to other weapons - fists, knives, clubs - and the trend kept going at about the same rate.
As for massacres of 10+ people, they were and are a rare occurrence, yet from a criminal studies perspective it's no surprise that those wanting to accomplish such a callous and typically premeditated act would resort to other weapons . Fuel. Cars. Pipe bombs.
In Australia alone there were two such incidents after Port Arthur using fire.
What did Policy makers do? Admit their folly?
Nope. They moved the goal post and started talking about 'gun' crime.
>>77695608
If comparative rates between the U.S.and South Korea are any indication, banning guns will have no effect on suicide.
>U.S. suicide rate, 12.1 100,000
>South Korea suicide rate, 28.9 per 100,000
The U.S. has the highest rate of civil firearms ownership in the world, South Korea completely bans civil firearms ownership.
>>77695422
Based
>>77695014
See, this is where you are showing what an inbred goatfucker you are that you can't even see I'm mocking your weak strawman, something you should be good at since strawmen can reasonably be the only way you argue with your limited capability.
There is decades of valid research showing that secondhand smoking has a significant health risk to those nearby.
Smoking is, try to concentrate now, literally killing people everyday.
If you cannot see the difference between a tool that can defend and a pleasure that lets you feel nice killing others around you, I seriously think you should go back to your fasting.
>>77695961
Considering accidental firearms deaths account for less than 500 percent year, most of those are what we here in.The South call "hold my beer" moments, where you do something pretty Damn stupid just because you're young and reckless.
>>77691279
>its true in one place therefore its true in other locations.
>>77695631
>>77691279
Nigger even your own image proves you wrong and if anything shows that crime/murder rates dropped slower after gun control
Crime and homicide was already dropping before gun control laws you're literally saying the effect happened before the cause
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-18/opinion/chi-the-failure-of-gun-control-in-australia-20130118_1_gun-control-mandatory-gun-gun-deaths
>>77691279
Gun crime is actually up in australia. Gun deaths is only down because it includes suicide. Suicide is also up btw, just by other means.
>>77691279
To me even 674 deaths a year doesn't justify banning guns, mass shootings are scary and make headlines, but the actual chance of you getting killed in one is very small. It's basically a social anomaly that no one knows how to react to, so people try to fix a problem that doesn't really exist by pushing anti-gun shit.
If all lives are truly equal then the means at which they die doesn't really matter, if high collesteral and traffic accidents were taken as seriously we would live in a very totalitarian government.
The truth is that the number of deaths don't matter, not even to the government, how dangerous it is doesn't matter, the only thing that matters to people pushing this agenda is either disarming america because it's safer that way for the government, or that they are afraid of these statistical lightning strikes because it's literally all they see when they turn on any form of media.
Maybe gun deaths would go down if we banned 'assault rifles' but the number is already low enough for the effectiveness to be purely an irrelevant fact toted as success of something that ultimately just left it's citizens with less rights, and a bigger government.
How is this even an argument? Obviously the amount of gun deaths were decreasing at the same trend before the law, I doubt it had any effect at all.
>>77692138
Yeah there's break, but which signs are the lagged regressors before and after the break?
And of course, you should know that >taking your conclusions and generalizing it to other locations and times is nothing but dubious.
>>77694458
Not to mention singling out "gun" x crime is fallacious reasoning.
It is presuming that getting shot or shooting yourself is worse than slitting your wrist or getting stabbed or beaten.
You'd be amazed how many antigunners would answer this question with "I'd rather live in city B"
Would you rather live in city A with 100 murders 80 of which are done with guns and 20 other means or city B with 100 murders 80 by other means and 20 with guns?
>>77694913
Number of guns in circulation has more than doubled over that same time period
>>77691449
it was a gay nightclub, what are you a faggot
>>77691279
Why don't you focus on state sponsored warfare first? You know, the people that print your money and buy weapons that civilians have never once been allowed to own?
But your goal is to disarm the civilians so that they can be more easily made to submit to authority, isn't it.
Because you do give that appearance and your lies don't really work if you don't go after the big dogs first.
>>77691279
Yeah, no
>>77695672
>literal thoughtcrime and thoughtpolice
Ausfailia, just disappear already.
>Gun crime literally goes up
>GUN CONTROL WORKED IN AUSTRALIA
>>77691279
Oh look, US rates dropped WITHOUT gun laws, even with the sunset of AWB ending in 2004...
>>77691279
Gun homicides in USA have also dropped in last 20 years. Even when the federal assault weapons ban expired.
>>77691279
>gun violence goes down
>overall violence doesn't
Explain this, nigger.
>>77691279
I am sure gun control works spectacularly in a place that started with few guns and a population that is used to being subservient.
Neither of the above are true in America.
>>77696803
Not even to mention that the FBI did a study on active shooter situations and found the average amount of deaths when the shooter was stopped by police is 11.4.
They found when an active shooter is stopped by an armed citizen already on site that the average deaths is 2.5
The government itself knows that the answer is what progun people have always been saying. The "nra talking point" of end gun free zones and let people arm themselves isn't a talking point it is an evidence backed answer to the problem.
Don't legally bar people from exercising their rights and encourage people to be prepared and the problem solves itself(as realistically as possible) without stripping people of their rights.
It is our liberty to defend ourselves that can and will save us not knee jerk reactions stripping liberty by a bunch of frightened sheep so they can have an entirely false sense of security.
>>77697455
>Not even to mention that the FBI did a study on active shooter situations and found the average amount of deaths when the shooter was stopped by police is 11.4.
>They found when an active shooter is stopped by an armed citizen already on site that the average deaths is 2.5
Forgot
Also notice the specific use of "active Shooter".
This is to address the antigun fallacy of saying "no mass shooting was stopped by a good guy with a gun".
Well no shit because it doesn't get to the point of a mass shooting because the good guy stopped the fucker.
>>77691279
1. Note how Aus has extremely strict border laws.
2. Now show us the violent crime rate, ie beatings stabbings assault etc.
>>77692418
It usually crops up in some other way.
>get mugged
>Don't report it
>months later house gets broken into
>report that
>police ask if their have been any other instances
>'well there was that one time I got mugged but I didn't want to make a big deal out of it'
>>77696803
>To me even 674 deaths a year doesn't justify banning guns,
That's pretty heartless.
If Muslims terrorists were killing 674 people a year in America , you'd be screming for kebab removal. You just love guns more than people.
>mass shootings are scary and make headlines, but the actual chance of you getting killed in one is very small.
Same for terrorist attacks. Should we not fight terror?
>>77697414
>researchers from two different Australian universities found that in the decade after the NFA became law, the firearm homicide rate fell by 59% and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65% — without increases in other types of deaths.
>>77692138
Can you please break this down for an ameriburger "educated" americunt like myself?
>>77697455
>Not even to mention that the FBI did a study on active shooter situations and found the average amount of deaths when the shooter was stopped by police is 11.4.
They found when an active shooter is stopped by an armed citizen already on site that the average deaths is 2.5
This sounds like NRAfag lies. Source?
>>77697891
>That's pretty heartless.
>If Muslims terrorists were killing 674 people a year in America , you'd be screming for kebab removal. You just love guns more than people.
See
>>77697603
>>77697455
The best way to fight this from an objective standpoint is to not make it illegal for good people to defend themselves.
The only people who lose in this scenario are antigun fucks with ulterior motives who don't care about violence they care about control and those fucks shouldn't win in anyway.
there is no point in discussing this
non-Americans will never be able to comprehend the idea that rights come from one's existence as a man, not from the state. I for one am glad that I wasn't born as a serf like you foreign mouthbreathers
>>77697955
>This sounds like NRAfag lies. Source?
The FBI itself dumb nigger.
The only side that constantly actively lies is the antigun side because they have no facts on their side.
See
>>77695009
Also you ignored which debunks your asinine claim mafe in the OP.
>>77696476
Gun control is climate change denial tier.
There is no evidence backing it up that isn't deliberately manipulative and fallacious.
Gun control works well in places with low populations and a vast majority whites. Then again, so does no gun control. Has everything to do with population and cultural uniformity
>>77698034
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/10/06/politico-magazine-contributor-debunks-right-win/205977
http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/10/23/right-wing-media-politicize-canadian-parliament/201285
>FBI Study: Law Enforcement And Unarmed Civilians Are Significantly More Likely To Stop Public Attacks Than Armed Civilians. A recent FBI study that looked at U.S. active shooter incidents between 2000 and 2013 found that 54 percent of incidents ended in suicide by the shooter, 26 percent were stopped by law enforcement, 13 percent were stopped by unarmed civilians, and just 3 percent were stopped by individuals outside of law enforcement, the vast majority of whom were on-duty security guards. In fact, an unarmed civilian was significantly more likely to stop an attack than an armed one:
There was actually a global decrease in crime over the period.
>>77698239
Here's what the FBI report actually showed
>Here's how these incidents ended. More than half (56 percent) were terminated by the shooter who either took his or her own life, simply stopped shooting or fled the scene. Another 26 percent ended in the traditional Hollywood-like fashion with the shooter and law enforcement personnel exchanging gunfire and in nearly all of those situations the shooter ended up either wounded or dead. In 13 percent of the shooting situations, the shooter was successfully disarmed and restrained by unarmed civilians, and in 3 percent of the incidents the shooter was confronted by armed civilians, of whom four were on-duty security guards and one person was just your average "good guy" who happened to be carrying a gun.
The fact that 21 of these shooting situations were terminated by unarmed civilians as opposed to a single incident that ended because a good guy had a gun might come as a big surprise to the NRA, but for those of us who try to engage in the gun debate by issuing statements based on facts, this finding is consistent with other evidence that the pro-gun community chooses to ignore. [The Huffington Post, 9/29/14]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-weisser/fbi-report-active-shooters_b_5900748.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
NRAfags are climate denial tier liars.
>>77698331
>Gun control works well in places with low populations and a vast majority whites
No it doesn't
If there's no problem and crime and homicide is already going down and you then remove guns it just means all you did was remove guns.
You could fly planes filled with crates of AR 15s magazines and cases of 556 and airdrop them all over Norway and their homicide rates would change absolutely zero.
>>77698445
Also note Australia isn't in the G7
>>77698334
You clearly dont understand how stats work.
The cases where an armed citizen stopped the acrive shooter saw an average death rate of 2.5
The issue is that acrive shooters very very very rarely go to places where they would encounter an armed citizen already on site they go to places where it is illegal for citizens on site to be armed. This shows that one would want to remove thr legal restrictions on the law abiding so these sick fucks dont have soft targets to go to. You want to see that 3% nunber of cases that have an average of 2.5 deaths increase to being nearly all of the cases involving an active shooter.
Btw read the actual study not deliberately cherrypicked sections of it from a biased article.
>>77698206
>the idea that rights come from one's existence as a man, not from the state
lmao
like the idea that baby jesus was american
>>77691430
I'd much rather have my bag of groceries stolen from me violently than be shot in the head you fucking moron.
If only there were a way to calculate "homicides deterred by multiple people being armed". I guess we'll have to settle for rapes that weren't reported but we know happened.
>>77698853
Yeah, foreign fucks will never get it.
>Aussies with open carry
I shudder to think
>>77698502
See
>>77698744
What these biased sources are doing is the equivalent of saying"only 3% of house fires are stopped immediately by homeowners with fire extinguishers and the rest are stopped by the fire department because those homes didn't have fire extinguishers so therefore fire extinguishers don't work to stop house fires" All while leaving out that fires stopped by the homeowner with the fire extinguisher just leaves some black soot on the ceiling and the fires stopped by the fire department results in an entirely ruined house.
The answer is clearly to get more people to have fire extinguishers not ban them nd rely on the fire department.
>>77698891
You do know what violent crime means I hope.
Oh wait no, you're a leaf.
>>77698891
Ah, you have fallen for the criminals are universally desperate and hungry meme.
>>77691279
Probably because it was already decreasing regardless of gun availability.
>I'm almost at the finish line! Better sip some Mountain Dew to make my car go faster!
>I won! Thanks, Mountain Dew
Aussies in a nutshell.
>>77698744
>The cases where an armed citizen stopped the acrive shooter saw an average death rate of 2.5
You don't understand that . Those cases are so rare its negligible.
>The issue is that acrive shooters very very very rarely go to places where they would encounter an armed citizen already on site they go to places where it is illegal for citizens on site to be armed. T
This is completely false. Only 13% of shooting occur in "gun-free zones". Many killers don't care about armed civilians since they are on a suicide mission anyways.
Dr. Peter Langman, a clinical psychologist who specialises in psychology of mass shooters
>"I don't think it is. Many of these shooters intend to die, either by their own hand or by suicide by cop. There was an armed guard at Columbine. There were armed campus police at Virginia Tech. The presence of armed security does not seem to be a deterrent," Langman said. "Because they're not trying to get away with it. They're going in essentially on a suicide mission."
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/10/06/politico-magazine-contributor-debunks-right-win/205977
>>77698954
I get that you're stupid.
You don't have any clue how things actually work, and if you bothered to argue, you'd be utterly destroyed. So to avoid having to justify your retarded opinions, you disregard argumentation from the get-go.
>>77699050
It means putting you in the oven for payback, Gertrude.
>>77691394
Fucking hell I want you to keep your guns but Omar was on a terror list and still got a gun for fuck sakes.
I wonder if muslim terrorists have shot up a synagogue and the whole thing got covered up yey
>>77699107
>You don't understand that . Those cases are so rare its negligible.
Because active shooters pick targets that it is illegal for armed good citizens to be you dense moron.
> This is completely false. Only 13% of shooting occur in "gun-free zones". Many killers don't care about armed civilians since they are on a suicide mission anyways.
This is a lie
Every single big time shooting that the news blows up has been a gun free zone.
This last one
San Bernardino(where it is all but illegal to carry a gun for defense period)
Sandy hook
Aurora
The navy yard shooting.
Fort hood.
Etc etc etc
> Many killers don't care about armed civilians since they are on a suicide mission anyways.
Thatvis why nearly every single example of an active shooter end up offing themselves when they meet armed resistance?
>Dr. Peter Langman, a clinical psychologist who specialises in psychology of mass shooters
Empty appeal to authority that isn't backed up by evidence.
Columbine guards were on lunch break and the size of Virginia tech made them irrelevant because by time they showed up he already slaughtered a classroom and got his body count.
With a 9mm and 22lr handguns with 10 round mags btw
>>77699150
>... they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...
>SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
Our rights are ours for existing, not from a government. It may be different where you're from, but in the USA our constitution makes it clear.
>>77699222
>Omar was on a terror list and still got a gun for fuck sakes.
No he wasn't
He was taken off of it.
Not to mention that due to his job he would have been able to legally acquire firearms evennin nations such as France and Germany quite easily for his job.
And removing people's Constitutionally protected natural rights with secret government list with zero due process and zero recourse belongs in 1984 not a free nation
>>77699222
But he wasn't on a list. He had been investigated and cleared years before.
>>77699488
>Our rights are ours for existing, not from a government
>Quotes government documents
ya i figured as much
>>77699484
>>77699107
Also for someone saying progunners deny evidence you're doing a very good job of ignoring
>>77697264
>>77697199
>>77696476
>>77694880
>>77694799
>>77694512
>>77693682
>>77693227
>>77692138
>>77691604
>>77699222
Actually he was t on one at the time. He had been on one though which means there's no law that could have prevented this
>>77699484
>This is a lie
That's what stats say
https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/
>Thatvis why nearly every single example of an active shooter end up offing themselves when they meet armed resistance?
No most end when the shooter takes his own life or gets shot by police.
Omar was exchanging fire with 2 armed security guards at the nightclub before the police shot him.
>>77699670
>Quotes government documents
The Bill of Rights recognizes rights that already exist it doesn't grant them.
It says "THE right of the people"
Do you under what "THE" means in this context?
Niggaz really need to read some Locke
>>77699670
The amendments are not rights granted by the document to citizens, they are limitations on what the government can do to citizens.
>>77699670
>Our rights are ours for existing, not from a government
>Quotes government documents
>government document that declares the government doesn't give us our rights, they're already ours regardless
But hey, I respect your choice to whimper for allowances
>>77699875
You realize citing every town is the equivalent of a progunner citing a study by the NRA, right? They have an inherent bias.
>>77699875
>shooter takes his own life.
That's the same thing as offing himself.
Someone else will deal with the fact that you posted an everytown source in a gun debate.
Before the recent high casualty events suicide by or before resistance was common. The problem is this attack, San Berdino and Ft. Hood were Islamic terror which changes the psychology.
>>77699875
>Every town
Is an antigun group repeatedly caught lying funded by Michael Bloomberg.
The fact that you're reaching for clear biased sources know to lie instead of the nearly 40 peer reviewed studies out there(95% of which show gun control has no effect on crime or increases crime)shows this
> No most end when the shooter takes his own life or gets shot by police.
Yes they take their lives the vast majority of the time when faced with force.
>>77700073
Ironically enough the NRA doesn't conduct their own studies they cite thrid party peer reviewed studies because they don't have to rely on the use of manipulation.
>>77700185
There was that case in South Africa very recently where two Islamic radicals went into a church and open fire armed with full auto AKs and grenades.
They retreated when a single person in the congregation started firing back with a 5 shot 38spl j frame revolver.
>>77700232
Forgot pic
https://youtu.be/WK9NqYwr-Qw
>>77691531
>Group A and Group B exist.
>Group A has had a monopoly on force since forever, and they use this monopoly to rob, coerce, and act tyrannically towards defenseless Group B.
>One day, people in Group B grow some stones and violently fight back against Group A. They declare that both Group A and Group B will have the right to use force from now on
>Years later, people in Group B actively fight to relinquish their group's right to use force
It doesn't get anymore pathetic than this.
>>77700546
That is an amazing round. It can fire without the primer going off.
>>77691279
Gun control works in Australia because we still have a functioning rule of law and judicial system which protects the average citizen from an cunt government. The US lacks this vital component and must rely on It's written constitution and it's interpretation by it's best legal minds. Currently this last vestige of US freedom is under siege, they have taken to murdering supreme court justices and are rigging elections for the sole purpose of installing judges that will eviscerate the constitution and bill of rights. The Australian argument does not apply, we're a nation, the USA is a corporation.
>>77700185
Not to mention that available reports show people trapped in bathroom areas were most of the deaths in Orlando including people sending out frantic text along the lines kf "I hear shooting trapped in the bathroom" "oh god I can hear him coming down the hall way" etc
Imagine if they had pic related in their hand instead of that cellphone
Or if a dozen members of this organization were present in the club.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/06/foghorn/gay-open-carry-group-kicked-out-of-gay-pride-rally-due-to-psychological-harm/
>>77699488
the constitution argument haha
>Guys, I know your country was founded by fighting against a government with arms, but could you PLEASE just give up your right to bear arms?!
>>77700787
>Gun control works in Australia
Gun control doesn't work in Australia anon
See post linked in
>>77699829
>>77700063
Alright, you keep believing in the invisible right-man in the sky. If you believe hard enough, he might lower your taxes! (ACUTALLY GUBMINT THEFT)
>>77699915
Nigga I have a law degree, you have a containment board indoctrination
Speaking of rights without enforcement is complete and utter nonsense. No, natural rights aren't real, and neither is Santa Claus. If the government ceased existing, so too would your rights.
>>77699919
Can you people make up your mind? I don't care whether you want to call them rights or not (p.s. it's called the bill of rights).
>>77700546
>"Our rifles fire the whole bullet! That's 90% more bullet, per bullet!"
>>77691279
They went from around 500 to around 300. That's not really a big difference. This graph doesn't really do anything for me.
>>77699875
Also you should look at their methodology it is laughable.
They are including family murders as public mass shootings And they provide no citation for their methodology at all.
> Ninety-four of the 133 incidents (71%) took place wholly in private residences. Of the 38 incidents in public spaces, at least 21 took place wholly or in part where concealed guns could be lawfully carried. All told, no more than 17 of the shootings (13%) took place entirely in public spaces that were so-called “gun-free zones.”
>>77691279
>make guns illegal
>can't stop over half the murders by guns
Your government is retarded as nungas.
>>77700968
It works in the sense that no one really gives a shit about guns, not really an anti gun person but I know that if you want or need to use a firearm here you can, It's just a pain in the ass.
>>77701031
>government doesn't give us our rights
>but the government told you that
>doesn't matter, they say it themselves that they don't give us our rights
>haha, so sky god gives you rights?
You don't have to believe in sky papa to accept that the government doesn't give rights, that it can only violate them.
>>77691543
Good and underrated observation.
>>77701031
>No, natural rights aren't real, and neither is Santa Claus. If the government ceased existing, so too would your rights.
If thr government didn't exist what would stop me from owning any firearm I wished or speaking my mind as I wished?
>Confusing negative and positive rights
You're a European it's OK that you made such a horrendous philosophical mistake since the last 150 years these conceptshave been buried at nearly every level except an individual's willingness to research them themselves
>>77700937
poorer than a Leaf
>>77701031
Thanks, but I like my taxes. They'll keep my country better than yours.
>>77691279
because the right wing is mostly concerned with symbols and it is symbolically weak to admit you were wrong.
At the end of the day if you willingly give up a right you are stupid.
Once it is gone you will never get it back.
>>77701465
so in your constitution it says, that you are allowed to own weapons to protect your ground and protect your country and also to protect yourself from the goverment right ?
>>77701031
They are rights, but I needed to stress that they function AS LIMITERS ON GOVERNMENT POWER, rather than the government granting that power to a citizen.
>>77691449
Or we can just deport niggers and kebabs
>>77701273
>It works in the sense that no one really gives a shit about guns
That isn't working though in any sense it is just an empty justification for tyranny.
> I know that if you want or need to use a firearm here you can, It's just a pain in the ass.
Look up your self defense laws.
It is in effect illegal to use a firearm for self defense and is absolutely illegal to carry one on your person for defense.
Also due to storage laws even with the theoretical cases where self defense with a firearm would be legal they wouldn't be legally accessible in a way that would make them usable for self defense so you'd be charged with improper storage of a firearm and lose your guns as well.
>want an AR-15
>expensive as fuck
thanks gun grabbers
>>77701560
No it says the government has no legal authority to infringe on that right.
Tell me where in this sentence does it grant a right as you claim because all o see is acknowledgement of something that already exist
>>77701767
>You could get an AR-15 for $500 three weeks ago.
Looks like I'm.gonna have to wait.
Gonna enjoy the scurry salt weabons I already have in the mean time
>>77691279
Now let's see the same graph for knife deaths.
>Less guns
>Less gun crime
A child can see that this is logical. There will be less gun crime, but this is at the cost of essential freedoms and in the end won't change anything because murderers aren't going to stop murdering because they haven't a gun. Banning cars would also greatly decrease car accidents, but the cons greatly outweigh the pros, as it is with gun bans
>>77701329
>>77701627
Such a naïve point of view. You don't have any rights that the government isn't there to enforce. If the current government were to cease to be, what do you think would happen to the rights "totally not granted" by that government? In the trash they go.
You can tell little m'bongo in Somalia that he has the right not to be tortured and recruited as a child soldier all you want, do you think he cares? Do you think anyone cares?
"My job here is done", said rights-man, as he flew off into the horizon
>>77701465
Hahaha good one.
>>77701821
So you are allowed to have guns, because the constitution claims that it is necessary for the security of the nation ?
>>77693934
>>thinks smoking only kills himself
Believes truth.org propaganda.
Misleading stats. Show unjustified gun homicide.
>>77691449
You can't have that by banning guns, look at the Paris massacre. Why is this so hard for you to understand, you negro island monkey? My ancestors should have drowned you in the tar pits when they still had that two pieces of shit rock you call a country
>>77691279
>Gun deaths
>>77691692
No that is because we can't defend our homes, not even hand to hand.
Basically the criminal can sue us for beating the fucking scum into submission until the police arrive.
My father was involved in a house invasion and wrecked the coon cunt so bad, he's just lucky we could afford a good lawyer and got a good judge or he'd be in for grievous harm.
>>77700546
Combustible lemons.
>>77695406
>believes government propaganda about tobacco.
>thinks he needs guns to be protected from the government.
>>77701560
>>77702131
I have a right to bear arms because that liberty is innate, as is life. The constitution does not grant the right, but it acknowledges it exists and aims to protect it.
>>77702469
banning self defense is a competely indefensible position. There's no reason, real or concocted that can justify banning it
>>77697048
>>77691279
(Coughs)
>>77702576
what are arms or how is it defined? Why cant you own heavy machine guns ? Why cant you have the same arms as the gov. has ?
>>77701413
>If thr government didn't exist what would stop me from owning any firearm I wished or speaking my mind as I wished?
Anyone might do that. Who's to stop them now that the government isn't there to do it for you?
If you have to fight for it personally, then it can no longer be considered a right - a right is a matter of course.
All of this shit you're talking about is the stuff you learn on the first semester, because that's how basic it is. Let's look at Locke's natural rights. Take property. What do you think happens to your right to property if the government ceases to be? What happens when a guy comes across "your" property - does he think "better not take it, he has the right to property after all!", or does he simply take it because he can do so without any expectancy of repercussions?
>b-but muh negative rights will protect me
no
For how realist /pol/ tries to pose as, you sure love arguments resting on nothing but philosophical hot air
>>77702131
>So you are allowed to have guns, because the constitution claims that it is necessary for the security of the nation ?
Are you illiterate in the English language?
It says "THE right of the people"
Do you not understand what these words mean in this grammatical format?
That is a rhetorical question because you clearly don't or you are being deliberately retarded
>using "gun deaths" instead of overall murder
Fucking retard
>>77702748
Americans can own heavy machine guns.
>>77691279
Shit for brains, consider this.
Because of retards like you, I bought reloading equipment. I am a machinist.
Ban guns all your like, I'll still make them. people in prison make fire arms. Think what I could do.
>>77701465
>i like my taxes
Now there's a happy slave!
Taxation is theft.
>>77702865
Nothing you argued isn't applicable to the government and isn't routinely done at a much larger scale by government.
And infringement upon natural rights by any group isn't removal of their existence either.
You're confusing with inability to exercise with them not existing.
If I tie and gag you to a chair you still have the inherent natural right to say and think what you wish.
> or does he simply take it because he can do so without any expectancy of repercussions?
I'd blow him away due to that whole natural right to keep and bear arms:^)
Also look at animals in nature.
Are you going to argue that the antelope doesn't have a right to defend itself against a lion because antelope haven't formed a government?
>>77703108
not all murders are cause by guns, what kind of fucking retard are you ?
Guess which group in the USA causes most of gun related deaths.
Also, it's fucking retarded to think gun regulation will work to reduce crime when an incredibly small amount of gun related crime is done by legal gun owners. Niggers will get their guns all the same.
>>77703143
People in California are already trying to ban chunks of aluminum in shapes they don't like
>>77703278
>not all murders are cause by guns
That was the retarded antigun lack of logic he was pointing out.
>>77702905
where is the different between having the right to own a gun and are allowed to have a gun ? In both cases there is no problem in owning a gun. Where is this huge difference ?
>>77703124
so you can go into a shop and buy a fucking browning or another gatling gun ?
>>77702865
>>77703253
Forgot to mention
No negative rights aren't a matter of course you're again confusing positive and negative rights
>>77702065
>You don't have any rights that the government isn't there to enforce. If the current government were to cease to be, what do you think would happen to the rights "totally not granted" by that government?
1st Amendment:
There is no government to infringe on my freedom of speech, press, religion, and assembly.
>2nd Amendment
There is no government to infringe on my freedom to keep and bear arms
>3rd Amendment
There is no government to force soldiers to be quartered in my house.
>4th Amendment
There is no government to search or seize my property
>5th Amendment
There is no government to deprive me of life, liberty or property.
>6th Amendment
There is no government to provide a trial
>7th Amendment
There is no government to enforce common law
>8th Amendment
there is no government to inflict cruel and unusual punishments
>9th Amendment
There is no government to limit the number of rights
>10th Amendment
There is not a government to expand its power over states or other entities
Nothing keeps anyone from private individuals or other entities from violating these rights, but the bill of rights is designed to prevent the government from doing so. No government, no need for the Bill of Rights.
For example, no one is forcing my voice to be heard or my posts to be read or my tweets to not be banned by private individuals or companies, but the government can't legally.
So it just cuts the deaths in half?
So instead of criminals dying only civilians will be killed.
>pic related
Americas gun problem explained
>>77703623
>where is the different between having the right to own a gun and are allowed to have a gun
The right to arms is a constant derived from one's humanity
"Being allowed to own a gun" is the government either legally protecting that inherent right or not.
That is the huge difference.
The individual inherent right to free speech wasn't legal in the Soviet Union(well technically it was protected under their constitution under the stipulation that you didn't speak against the government in anyway) but the individual Soviet citizen still had their right to speak their mind. They would just be imprisoned for it.
> so you can go into a shop and buy a fucking browning or another gatling gun
With about the same amount of paperwork yuropoors have to do to get fudd rifles yes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLNoYujxeRo
https://www.full30.com/video/d0f043e7965d4ecf4c3ac35c5ea9d47b
>>77703623
>so you can go into a shop and buy a fucking browning or another gatling gun ?
There is some paperwork, some fees, some waiting for lazy government shits to process it, but yeah.
>>77693724
Like we need to be lectured by the muslim rape capital of the west
>>77691449
Then maybe you should address the problem of Kebab. They're not going to relinquish their weapons. Why should you?
>>77703965
>"Being allowed to own a gun" is the government either legally protecting that inherent right or not
>>77703623
To expand further no one with a felony has their right to keep and bear arms legally protected yet they can and do freely exercise this right because they don't give a shit about these laws.
>>77702865
Pretend you're the asshole who wants to take somebody else's property or guns. Do you understand the risk that you're signing up for by openly attacking or stealing from a member of any community? In a state of anarchy(without a ruler, not the movie bullshit with fire and mobs) wouldn't you and your neighbor be pretty upset about hearing that some niggers down the street took somebody's house? Wouldn't you want to do something about that problem?
So would everybody else in the community. The thief just made himself an enemy to everyone because nobody likes a thief. The government is just a framework to take that responsibility/rightful use of violence away from the victims and into the hands of a different group of people, being the government. "Rights" are just things that the government says are off-limits to them, but they clearly aren't.
>>77704015
Not in idaho with a CCW. I could go buy one right now if i had the money. And soon we won't have ccws on July first.
>>77703623
I can own a fucking cannon if I paid for it.
>>77691279
>people in other countries care about the US gun laws
Does the US rule the world or something?
Why are we even wasting time talking about AR-15s and so-called "assault weapons?"
In the past 10 years, assault-style rifles have been used in 14 public mass shootings. By just mid-April there had already been 1,000 shootings in 2016 in the city of Chicago -- most of those shootings involved handguns.
If liberals were serous about their claimed intention to save lives, would they not be focusing their energy on the weapons that are used in the most deaths?
>>77704243
For shit you usually need a stamp for?
>>77704362
/Thread
>>77700640
I'm not even really libertarian, but I recognize what the government represents, that is, advanced cuckoldry.
But most people don't want freedom. When you talk to them about freedom their first response will be "muh security".
>>77704362
I guess liberals unconsciously grasp that the "high capacity assault weapons" represent the independence of the individual.
The M4 Carbine is very ill suited compared to a glock for killing rival gang bangers. But that is what they go after.
>>77692442
Except for the fact that our homicide rate is now literally half what it was before the laws, and continues to fall. Whereas the US has not seen a significant drop since the turn of the millennium, aka 16 years. You're still hovering around the 5/100,000 rate, while Australia is at 1.1/100,00 KEK.
>>77704822
Liberals do not give two fucks about blacks killing each other and have gone to great lengths to segregate them into ghettos.
>>77704362
Honestly liberals just realise there are too many handguns to take them all away and the NRA will go full conspiratard. They think taking away assault rifles is more doable and will save a couple lives.
>>77692820
RETARD ALERT, RETARD ALERT.
Our homicide rate is at a record low, m9. Yours is 400% higher fyi. The NRA lied to you so you keep buying their financiers guns, sorry to be the one to tell you :^).