Let's talk about religion.
The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
Atheism or belief in a god does not stereotype someone into a category of human being or how miserable or great their life will be subsequently.
Dinosaurs were real and there is more evidence that they existed than the story of creation.
>>77668954
Religion was just a tool used for people to explain things they couldn't understand, along with simple life lessons based on experience of the author(s). The issue with religion as time went on is the dogma attached to it, and people in power believing that they have the right interpretation and only them. It allows something for people to hide behind and justify their cruel actions at it's worst, and just something to uplift and keep people going at it's best.
As a young fool, I used to despise religion. Now as an older fool, I understand it's a necessary evil.
Belief is a beneficial evolutionary trait.
As long as that trait is with us, we need religion. Abandon one, and people will create another, usually even more retarded than the first.
>>77670006
How about belief in facts?
>>77668954
Daily reminder, anti-religion (specifically anti-Christianity) is the tool of Zionism and Communism used specifically to undermine western civilization.
>>77668954
>The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
Irrelevant
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
False.
>Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
False.
>Atheism or belief in a god does not stereotype someone into a category of human being or how miserable or great their life will be subsequently.
Obviously.
>Dinosaurs were real and there is more evidence that they existed than the story of creation.
Two unrelated thought in the same sentence.
You don't want to talk about religion, you want to spout shit and rile people up.
>>77670230
Jesus could turn a table, fact.
>>77670230
Facts are only what other people believe to be true.
>>77670616
And how is the age of the planet irrelevant?
There isn't much historical evidence for Jesus. There is some, this is not false.
Dinosaurs and religion are highly related.
Wtf are you smoking? I want some.
>>77670616
Prove Jesus existed, also, not really aiming to rile people up, just speaking facts.
Also atheism is a religion and a belief system, otherwise you're agnostic.
>>77670230
facts are spooks
>>77670635
There are subjective facts and objective facts.
Objective facts are true regardless of what you want to believe.
>>77670616
When discussing religion, would talk about the age of the Earth be a pretty valid and /not/ irrelevant point considering most religions, especially Christianity, consider the Earth to be much younger? The rest of what you said is just so out there, I'll give you a bit to think it through
>>77668954
people will worship some 2000 year old dead jew zombie god, if you say anything against it you're a fedora-wearing autist, apparently.
>>77670782
There's plenty of evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ as a human being. Denying it does not make it so. Whether he was the son of God or any sort of prophet is entirely up for debate.
>Also atheism is a religion and a belief system, otherwise you're agnostic.
You're literally just arguing semantics. Atheism is not a religion. There is no organized system of beliefs or worship.
>>77670856
Bringing up the age of the Earth in a discussion about religion is extremely nitpicky to the point of being childish. If you want to pick apart the glaring flaws in Christianity, try picking on something that is part of the core of the belief system and not simply a side note.
>>77668954
>ITT
>Christianity and Islam are the same because they're both "abrahamic" and I'm a fedora lord
>>77670616
>Dinosaurs
You guys I am here to preach to you, as a modern day gatherer in the streets, I will revelate to you wisdom.
Dinosaurs were very strong psychics, and they could see into the future.
Also, ITT I answer all religious questions.
>>77671316
I'm not denying his existence, he could have been real, but there is no proof, certainly not enough to say his existence is a fact. It's unfortunate, but one must prove something exists first before you can claim I'm denying his existence.
All it would take is one group of atheists who get together and worship something (like D&D) to prove you wrong, luckily i actually know a group who do just that.
>>77671316
The age of the Earth is very relevant to religion, understanding how the Earth was formed and it's age fundamentally destroys a majority of modern belief systems outright. It also makes creationism basically impossible to believe in.
>>77671489
If atheists are getting together and worshiping something they aren't atheists. They are theists. Try to not be so retarded, please.
>>77671398
They are same in many parts, the only difference is Christians ignore their commandments while some muslims act upon it. Go try to be gay and/or Atheist in 6th century Roman Empire or belong to a wrong sect in 16-17th century europe.
Thank """"god""" christians began to ignore them, but then again I have seen christians who said they agree with ISIS on methodology and only disagree in ideology,so there's that. I just hope islam will have a kind of reformation you had (or have it again, as it was less radical few decades ago)
>>77668954
i fuckin love dinosaurs
>>77671599
a theist believes in a god or god(s), worship of something isn't relegated to only a god.
>>77671316
A flaw is a flaw irregardless, and when it comes to Christians denying Evolution, the age of the Earth is one of the first points brought up.
As for you thinking that Atheism as a religion is just semantics, you are aware that people get together in large groups (like congregation) and talk about their belief in there being no God. That's about as close as getting to a religion as you can get.
>>77668954
Evidence or real world truths are irrelevant
In the case of christianity the bible is merely a collection of stories by different author using recurring characters some stories being historical occurances with rather out of proportion embellishments as well as complete works of fiction with an underlying theme or message.
I don't believe in any of it but I have a respect for the christian faith as western civilization has been founded upon christian ideals and if you disagree you can at the very least agree that christianity has played a large role in shaping western civilization.
>>77670782
Prove to me your great great grandfather existed.
>>77671489
Did Buddha exist?
>>77671591
It is a logical fallacy to assume that because a religion is wrong about one thing it is wrong about everything. The age of the Earth is irrelevant. You cannot point to the age of the Earth and say "See, because this is wrong your entire argument falls apart" because their argument (religion) has no basis on the age of the earth.
Arguing about the age of the Earth is childish, pointless, and irrelevant.
>>77670006
preach
>>77671768
I believe the Roman Empire had a bigger influence in Western civilization than Christianity did overall, and especially in American culture, but i do appreciate its influence as major.
>>77671591
The Adam and Eve story is not correct. Somebody made it up. God doesn't work like that, he makes reasonable conceptions.
If you want to know the real story, I'll tell you.
Does anybody have that pic comparing protestants vs christians, with the catholic quote describing the earth being built in 7 days as a metaphor and it being in fancy font, while the protestant quote was the earth was built in 7 days and dinosaurs didn't exist etc etc and was in comic sans
Please respond, pic unrelated
>>77671770
Sure, he has remains, and there are plenty of records like his social security number and death certificate.
Find me one hard piece of evidence that Jesus existed. Even something he actually wrote would be a start.
>>77668954
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
How can anyone be this stupid.
>>77671824
Actually the age of the Earth is massively relevant. I don't know what you're doing saying it's not relevant, expand on that please.
>>77671933
How can anyone be this ignorant.
>>77671933
It's really just understanding where lies begin and the truth starts, most of what we know about Jesus are accounts written 200 years after his death, hard proof of his existence has actually been a serious endeavor for at least the last 500 years, and nothing has been found. He is about as real as mithra at this this point.
You guys I have visions of the past, I can tell you more of the bible and it's stories.
>>77672046
What about Muslims? They believe in him.
>>77671928
Show me them. Show me real proof,like something he actually wrote.
Was Buddha real?
Atheism is the rejection of God and religion.
So how the fuck is it a religion?
>>77670845
if someone want push that 2+2=5 is a fact and they push it real hard, it maybe become a fact
>>77671973
I don't know how much more you could possibly want expanded.
Name me a single religion in which the age of the Earth is part of the core belief system and disproving their claims about the age thus disproves the entire religion.
You could prove that Jesus did not exist and disprove Christianity. You could somehow prove that Mohamed was not a prophet of Allah and disprove Islam. You could prove many things about different religions to disprove that particular religion, but proving something about the age of the Earth is utterly irrelevant.
>>77672138
It's a massive false equivalence to compare my great grandfather to a 2000 year old legend whom nobody has been able to find hard proof existed for over 500 years.
Also, i don't know, i have not studied Buddhism enough to claim either way. I know woefully little about southeast asian culture and religion.
>>77672046
Paul was real, James was real, Pontius Pilot was real, Josephus was real. Few other people who were real and all wrote about Jesus.
Protip: what the disciples wrote did not come 200 years after Jesus was crucified, unless you want to believe they lived for hundreds of years.
The Egyptian Coptic Church was founded in 39 A.D. I believe, only a few years after Jesus was crucified.
You would have to call all of these people liars to justify your position.
>>77672245
lol
>>77672271
I don't think so.
>feign ignorance so I don't expose my retardation
I didn't expect anything more from you.
>>77672304
im talking about tranys and all that leftist shit, maybe you are one of them, and i get you man, fuck up the world as hard as you can
>>77672246
>Name me a single religion in which the age of the Earth is part of the core belief system and disproving their claims about the age thus disproves the entire religion.
Christianity's creation theory, and a good core of it's beliefs therin. It's not really childish, it's axiomatic how old the earth is and that we evolved, if this isn't what you believe then that statement wasn't addressing you.
>>77670230
You don't have to believe in facts, they're facts.
If I'm standing in my driveway looking at my truck, I don't need to believe it's there, I can see it.
Right now, I can't see my truck, but I believe it's still there.
Belief is a part of being human; religion is group belief.
>>77672358
You're not making sense. Try logic.
>>77672221
If you can't see how people have made it a primary belief with the same severity as Christians or whomever, then there's no point in trying to explain it to you.
>>77672291
Prove Jesus was real, that is all i ask. Written accounts after his death are not evidence to the scientific community.
He might have been, but he also might be just a story as well.
>>77668954
>Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
which is like saying not voting is a political party
>>77672418
You don't have to believe in facts, they don't really care.
>>77668954
>>77668954
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
There is plenty of evidence of the HISTORICAL Jesus of Nazareth and his life being very real. The Bible is not upheld by the faith of the believer but by external credibility.
The cities, towns, roads, and historical figures in those places were all real. Pontius Pilate, Herod Antipas, Tiberus Ceasar, the Jewish Pharisees and Saducees, were all real.
Take this verse for example
> Luke 3:1 -In the fifteenth year of the reign of Ti·be′ri·us Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Ju·de′a, and Herod was district ruler of Gal′i·lee, but Philip his brother was district ruler of the country of It·u·rae′a and Trach·o·ni′tis, and Ly·sa′ni·as was district ruler of Ab·i·le′ne, 2in the days of chief priest An′nas and of Ca′ia·phas, God’s declaration came to John the son of Zech·a·ri′ah in the wilderness.
That's incredibly detailed and matches archeology perfect and secular chronology and geopolitical history perfectly.
This is just a fraction of the evidence and credibility that leads to Jesus.
>>77672556
False equivalence.
>>77668954
There's more factual evidence for Jesus existing than for someone like aristotle desu
>>77672585
Evidence, not hearsay please. And the bible is not evidence for anything. It's a collection of fables.
I want real evidence, not faith.
>>77672486
What do you consider as proof of Jesus? As far as I'm concerned, according to what i think your standards of "proof" are, your grandpa wasn't real. Just prove to me your grandpa was real, that is all I ask.
>>77672304
Do you really not understand his point? You have people arrogantly laughing in that same manner you laugh at "2+2=5", only they do so at people who claim that your genitals determine your sex because they've been taught otherwise by society. 'Facts' are a dodgy area once neoliberalism deconstructs concepts and exaggerates outliers to the point that nothing matters.
That being said religion is no different in this regard: globalism, liberalism, etc. can be forced via Christian narratives.
>>77672402
Creationism isn't a core belief of Christianity, though. Christianity is about the life of Christ and how not to be a terrible human being. The age of the Earth is not relevant. Christians everwhere could decide to rewrite the bible without Genesis, the Pope could come out and say "Yeah, we were wrong about creationism", and the entire rest of the religion would be utterly unaffected.
How in the fuck can you possibly claim that the age of the Earth has any sort of significant effect on anything religious? Please, enlighten me. I've been doing my best to explain why I think you're wrong; I want to understand why you think you're right.
>>77672596
Unlike Jesus, nobody cares if Aristotle was real or not, because the teachings surrounding the idea of him are what actually matter, unlike with Jesus and zealots.
>>77672486
Also, you are not part of the scientific community, and the scientific community is not one person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology
>>77672703
My standards of proof align with the scientific community and i would even be willing to drop it to the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt"
You can't provide either for the existence of Jesus, so i admit it was loaded.
>>77668954
>The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
Probably.
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
Wrong.
>Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
Yes. Most do tend to start worshipping the state or base hedonism.
>Atheism or belief in a god does not stereotype someone into a category of human being or how miserable or great their life will be subsequently.
Religious engagement and well-being have a positive correlation though, mainly for the sense of community involvement one can also find in nationalism. If you want to practice lip-service faith, that's not a horrible thing.
>Dinosaurs were real and there is more evidence that they existed than the story of creation.
Nobody thinks the "days" in the story of creation were literally 24 actual hours. 2 Peter says that time has no meaning in the celestial plane.
>>77672717
2+2=4
2+2=/=5
Nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I don't care if you use black magic.
>>77672663
Your biology book is not evidence for anything. It's a collection of fables.
>a collection of fables.
Considering it talks about nothing but real people, and real places in the NT, I'm gonna have to stop you there.
>>77671599
>>77671770
>>77671824
>>77671933
>>77672291
>>77672358
>>77672358
>>77672396
>>77672717
>>77672703
>>77672663
You want jewish historical sources that Jesus existed? Read josephus' works. Want Roman sources? Read tacitus' works. It's pretty much universally agreed that Jesus existed, the debate is on whether or not he actually did spooky religion shit
>>77672741
If the bible can be rewritten so easily then it is not a reliable source of information for anyone.
The Earths age is relevant to modern day religion because nobody is going to rewrite the bible just to say "oh, it doesn't matter, we fixed it" And if that does happen, it makes Christianity uncredible.
>>77672818
So basically Jesus showing up and telling you "HEY! I'm real." is the only thing which constitutes as proof?
Do you believe in Dinosaurs?
>>77672972
so are history books useless now too
>>77668954
>The earth is 4.5 billion years old
>Dating surface rock is an accurate and definitive measure of the entire planet's age
>>77670230
If you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it, really there is no such thing as subjective reality.
You have no way of proving that anything exists other than showing that it behaves in such a way that humans have deemed to be proof of it's existence. Why exactly does being able to touch something mean it's real?
There's no way for you to definitively prove to yourself that everything you have ever experienced is anything more than your imagination.
>>77672765
The scientific community is a conglomeration of many different people with many different beliefs. I do research at a university, i understand science and the scientific method, and while i do not speak for the scientific community whatsoever, i do participate and know what is required for proof.
>>77672985
I believe in Dinosaurs, and no, even something he wrote would be enough.
>>77673046
History books?
History books go out of date every year with new discoveries, and they would not argue history from a religious standpoint, but a scientific one (at least most of them anyway).
>>77672972
The fuck are you talking about? The bible was never meant to be a "reliable source of information". The bible is nothing more than a collection of letters and stories written by a dozen different people.
I think you have a fundamentally flawed perception of what the bible is. If Jesus wanted us to have a flawless recollection of his life, he would have written it himself. If God wanted us to have a strict set of rules to follow, he could have carved them in to the side of a mountain. Instead we have the bible.
>>77673055
The god of the gap argument is a flawed understanding of quantum mechanics.
Good luck!
>>77672877
That is because of your values. You value mathematic truth and you've been taught addition in what I as well would consider to be the proper manner. For all intents and purposes, your assumption is right. You are, however, assuming that everyone taught 'facts' will then come to reasonable, similar conclusions. This can't be further from the truth, because in a belief system based upon fact where academia is the church, fact and opinion can be intermixed freely.
>>77673112
Have you ever seen a dinosaur?
How would we know he actually wrote it? You don't even believe people who wrote about him, do you really expect any of us to believe that if we had something Jesus did write and we said, "Hey, here it is, something Jesus wrote." that you would believe that?
>religion gives humans an evolutionary advantage.
>Religion is a coping mechanism to help deal with the harsh world.
Ever notice how at peace religions people are and how hateful self-proclaimed atheists are? Humans evolved to need religion/spirituality.
>>77673217
So you admit the bible is just a collection of legends, not based in truth?
Science answers way more questions about our existence, philosophy can help you with morality. Jesus was a philosopher, he never needed a church or the old testament sticked onto him.
You can't argue God's motives without proving him first, best of luck.
>>77673242
I believe in facts with evidence, i do not believe in nonsense, this is correct.
>>77673264
I've seen dinosaur fossils which is far more than what exists for evidence of Jesus, also, dinosaurs disprove your creation theory, Best of luck with your next claim.
>>77671316
>Atheism is not a religion. There is no organized system of beliefs or worship.
Bullshit.
Those who call themselves Athiests have very distinct manners of dress and appearance.
They most often believe that everyone is exactly the same, that anthropogenic climate change is holy truth, that white people are evil, and that everyone who thinks otherwise is a heathen.
Self proclaimed athiests have even started their own churches, where they gather to compare clothing and talk shit about other religions, just like every other religion does.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2015/01/why-people-are-flocking-to-a-new-wave-of-secular-communities-atheist-churches/
As I said earlier, belief is an evolutionary trait, and religion is the way it's expressed in a group.
See also, scientology and mormonism.
>>77672663
>Evidence, not hearsay please.
>I want real evidence, not faith.
Archeology, written historical events, and geopolitics IS evidence. You can find the names of those people written in ancient relics and buildings in archeological finds. Jesus interacted with Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius Ceasar. Listen to this Roman historian who was not a fan of Jesus said.
Roman historian Tacitus, who was no friend of Christianity. Writing soon after 100C.E., he tells of Nero’s cruel persecution of the Christians and adds:
>“Christus(Christ), the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus, and the pernicious superstition was checked for a moment, only to break out once more, not merely in Judaea, the home of the disease, but in the capital [Rome] itself.”
Look how he calls Christianity a "disease." This historian was no fan of Jesus, Christians, and Jews. However, he has no choice but to acknowledge their existence.
>>77673446
How do you know those fossils are real? Were you there when they were excavated?
>>77673511
You're telling me there is Archaeological evidence that Jesus exists? please show me.
>>77668954
It's just allegory.
>>77673324
You mean like all those people killed in the name of religion? Even recently? Try harder.
>>77673374
>So you admit the bible is just a collection of legends, not based in truth?
Yes, of course. I've never once denied it.
>Science answers way more questions about our existence
Sure, but science didn't exist 2000 years ago.
>philosophy can help you with morality
Philosophy has existed then and exists now, and only helps a very few, very introspective people. The vast majority of people will never once stop to think even one second about philosophy.
>You can't argue God's motives without proving him first, best of luck.
I've never once sought to. For what its worth, I'm just an atheist who thinks you're retarded.
>>77673397
What do you consider evidence is nonsense
>>77673397
It seems you're misunderstanding his regard for religion as a necessary evil. The concern isn't with an individual, but with a society.
>>77673536
Years studying science and fact checking.
Go to sleep child, Dinosaurs believe in you.
>>77673566
https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/surprising-archaeological-find-proof-of-jesus-existence
>>77673585
So what exactly is your argument? You're all over the place.
Also, god has no place in a scientific debate, stop it.
>>77673622
How do you know those facts weren't just made up to convince you the fossils are real and not man made?
>>77673622
Science are just fallible measures and arbirtary thresholds, they don't really have any value.
>>77673478
You're taking the actions of a few individuals and making claims about all of them. There are, by some estimates, nearly a billion atheists and these crazy fucks account for a few hundred thousand, at best.
>>77673608
Yes, needing facts is nonsense.
Next time someone needs proof from me, ill just tell them to have faith instead.
>>77673217
>If God wanted us to have a strict set of rules to follow, he could have carved them in to the side of a mountain. Instead we have the bible.
How can you be campaigning for the bible and totally disregard that God did give a strict set of rules called the 10 Commandments and they were written in stone, found on a mountain? That's a major story in the bible.
>>77673676
Hah, I'd love to see you debate Peter Kreeft.
I would pay to see that actually.
>>77673728
What you consider a fact is just the result of >>77673712
Your "proof" is a joke that you accept because it is easy to do so.
>>77673613
I think claiming religion is needed as a necessary evil is a flimsy argument at best, society is a bit more complex than A-B=C. Good luck.
>>77673728
Prove those fossils are real.
If you want to engage in some retarded conspiracy, so can we.
>>77673668
>https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/surprising-archaeological-find-proof-of-jesus-existence
lmao, yep, guess that Is proof he existed!
(not)
Good Luck!
>>77673676
My argument is and always has been that the age of the Earth is utterly irrelevant to any discussion of the credibility of any religion. You have yet to show how disproving creationism disproves the entirety of Christianity.
>Also, god has no place in a scientific debate, stop it.
When the fuck were we having a scientific debate?
>>77673748
That's the joke.
>>77673753
Okay.
>>77670230
>facts
>"facts"
>>>>>>""""""FACTS"""""
WE'RE SHIFTING INTO MAXIMUM SPOOK, LADS
>>77673765
>>77673668
No response?
I refuse to believe you conduct scientific research at a university when you can't even perform a simple google search. You are a pseud. Probably underage too. Keep up with your fantasies though, maybe some day you'll actually make it.
>>77673712
So, according to you as i udnerstand it, science is nonsense and they are all wrong. I do not believe this, good luck!
>>77668954
>Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
>Atheism
>A religion at all
You're not very smart, are you?
>>77673839
Are you claiming dinosaurs are a retarded conspiracy?
>>77673877
Hahaha. Look at this guy. Demands proof, is given it, says it is not proof.
Holy shit. You are actually 15.
>>77673765
Certainly it's roles can have substitutes, but it seems that:
a. atheism is also a rejection of establishment ideals so it naturally pushes those who find it logical towards leftist ideals. this may not be a logical decision itself, but people will always be more ready accept unrelated opinions that people decided fit together.
b. this association with atheism and liberalism was intentional such that the inevitable enlightenment would push people ever-more to the left
>>77673762
good luck believing that.
Unicorns aren't real either.
>>77673976
Science jst has no value beyond being a little, petty tool for purely practical purposes.
See? In the end the only thing you can say to defend it is "I do not believe it". Because you are simple minded, you worship science. It's the only thing you have, and you have never questioned it, because otherwise your life is empty.
>>77674010
You do know there are Churches of Atheism right?
You're not very smart, are you?
>>77674015
Yes. Those fossils are all fake, man made. You can't possibly prove to me they are genuine. If you can, please do, and I will revert my position.
>>77674041
They are, there are many animals with one horn
>>77673889
I disagree, and you aren't even religious, you're an atheist speaking for a religion that you don't even believe in. That sounded pretty crazy to say, but one cannot take you seriously.
I know that the age of the Earth is very relevant when talking about Christianity, Google.com will prove this theory i have.
good luck!
>>77673914
Facts are pretty important ^_^
>>77674140
So you ask for proof, but your arguments are "use google". Heh
>>77674085
You do know that the actions of a few do not reflect on the entire group, right?
You're not very smart, are you?
>>77674172
What you consider to be facts are just the things you blindly accept
>>77672563
>You don't have to believe in facts, they don't really care.
Exactly my point.
Now, while my truck is likely still in my driveway, that is not a known fact to me at this moment. It's my belief that it's there, as that's where I parked it.
I could walk outside, see it, and prove it's still there.
I could also walk out, see an empty driveway, and yell "Fucking niggers!!"
At this moment I believe my truck is there. That is a belief, not a fact.
>>77668954
>The earth is 4.5 billion years old.
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
compare and contrast
>>77674140
>I know that the age of the Earth is very relevant when talking about Christianity
It shouldn't be to hard for you to come up with a coherent and logical reason, then, so either spend a few seconds to type it up for us or just admit you're a fucking idiot so we can all go to bed.
>>77673943
You're illogical and nonsensical link was hilarious as supposed "proof" Jesus is real, no need to get angry i didn't even bother. When researching we tend to not use Google.com looking for sources.
Good luck!
>>77674085
You do know its retarded in general to make a church about an ideology that specifically claims that all ideologies are untrue and there is nothing to believe in.
You're not very smart, are you?
>>77674017
Where is the proof?
>>77668954
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing
Are you a historian.
No.
You're not.
Because if you were you'd know how foolish a statement this is.
We have as much evidence (or lack thereof as you call it) for the Life of Jesus as the Lives of Socrates or Alexander the great.
Troy and the Trojan war were considered pure myth for 3,000 years until Heinrich Schliemann, equipped with nothing but Homer's Iliad and a large set of balls dug it up.
Now piss off.
>>77674089
lol, i've been taking you seriously up until now. I'm sorry i didn't catch on sooner. Good job.
>>77668954
>There is very little factual evidence for Jesus existing.
It is by far the most supported hypothesis.
The thing people who deny the existence of the historical Jesus forget is that, it's not a neutral claim. Christianity exists and you have to account for it, SOMEONE founded it.
The "apostles got together and made Jesus up" hypothesis has not a shred of evidence behind it.
>>77674138
Yes, narwhals, those are not unicorns, and 2+2=/=5, don't be nonsensical.
>>77674303
>a real archaeological discovery
How can a link be illogical? How can a link possess any qualities at all other than what it's own definition necessitates? You are legitimately retarded.
I gave you proof. No you are just acting like an insane person.
>>77674192
Well...If the shoe fits....
>>77674216
Patently false.
Source: my life
^_^
>>77668954
Daily Reminder that most Christians don't genuinely believe.
>Be Christian
>Legitimately believe that if I sin I could risk hell for all eternity
>Sin anyway
yeah, nah.
They don't genuinely believe, they deep down know that it's a lie but that causes guilt and the guilt is where religion becomes like an addictive fetish. The guilt is where the church comes in and profits, because people WANT to believe, they just can't do it 100%, its not possible. The greatest sin is doubt but it is our strongest inclination.
Fuck all fags who think theyve figured God out. He/She/Xir may very well exist, but I can assure you that He/She/Xir sure as fuck isn't how people say. God is unknown, this is where religions fail. Pretending to know the personality and will of God is blasphemy. All religion is blasphemy
>>77674197
How many people claim to be Christian but don't go to church? Fact is that people fight for Atheism with the same fervor as a Christian fights for their belief.
a·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
noun: atheism
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Nowhere in there does it say it's against religions or gathering in such a manner one would in a religion, just the dogma of God or gods. When people believe so wholly in something, congregate, discuss and refuse other beliefs, could you not call that a religion?
You're not very smart, are you?
>>77674289
What do you mean? there are tons of debates about religion's validity and the age of the Earth, you being unaware of them is irrelevant to the facts.
Good Luck ^_^
>>77668954
>Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
>>77674370
Nope, i'm a scientist. Prove Jesus existed please.
>>77674470
Where is the proof of Jesus in that article?
>>77674411
You think I am joking. Seriously, prove those fossils are genuine.
You can't.
>>77674357
http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-truth/maps/archaeological-and-external-evidence
https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/surprising-archaeological-find-proof-of-jesus-existence
>>77674562
>How many people claim to be Christian but don't go to church?
How is that a relevant questions? There are hundreds of millions of Christians who go to Church.
The people who frequent actual "churches of atheism" are how many? A thousand?
>>77671770
id say a person existing is solid evidence that their great-grandfather existed
>>77674337
Yet atheists do it anyhow, and that's actually not entirely what it means to be an atheist.
You're not very smart, are you?
>>77674658
I can actually, i find your head in the sand technique rather comical. I don't have to prove to you that dinosaurs exist.
According to you, years of scientific research and the community at large has it wrong. Sure thing, best of luck, disregarding things you don't understand is an old trick.
>>77674571
Thanks for admitting you're wrong, at least. Even if you aren't man enough to come out and say it directly.
>>77674646
That part where his name, the name of his father, and the name of his brother are etched upon a limestone ossuary.
>>77674616
Transcripts from the Roman Senate and the Prefect of Judea Pontius Pilatus discuss back and forth the name known as Jesus of Nazareth and how best to handle his actions under Roman Law.
Now fuck off.
>>77674729
Okay, prove it to me.
>>77674709
Way to click on one small part of what I said and miss the rest. Well done.
>>77674730
What admittance?
You choose to believe creationism and the age of the earth is irrelevant despite decades of debates regarding the topic. You're nonsensical.
>>77674527
Sin? Everyone has free will, evil is bound to happen in a free will world.
>>77674774
He is literally a 15 year old. Also incredibly retarded it's astounding.
>>77674751
lmao, next you're going to tell me dinosaurs are fake. Oh wait...
>>77672246
>earth created in 6 days. 7th day is rest
>adam alone in garden, god builds eve
>eve eats apple, shares with adam
>originalsin
>Jesus comes to earth to atone for original sin
Id say the creation account is pretty much central to christianity. without it there is no original sin and no need for a christ.
>>77674719
My fucking point from the get-go is that atheism is not a religion at all, just the belief that no religion is true and the untrusting of religion in general.
>>77674877
Coming from the one devolving into calling others a retard because they have nothing better to say. The irony.
>>77674811
But it is? The population of people who go to churches of atheism and congregate is anecdotal. It's not a religion.
>>77674774
That's not proof, that's hearsay, and Jesus was a common name.
This is comical levels of reaching for anything you can find despite it not being peer reviewed or studied whatsoever.
One google.com search and AH HA! the next shroud of turin proves he existed!
I love this.
>>77674804
You want to disregard years of scientific research and say dinosaurs are fake?
Well...you can't be saved. Good luck.
>>77674957
>that's hearsay
what?
>>77674886
Here is more.
http://www.livescience.com/38014-physical-evidence-jesus-debated.html
Jesus was real. I'm sorry you are retarded. You will never be a scientist.
>>77674930
Religion:
a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
"consumerism is the new religion"
People (like yourself it seems) believing with the same fervor as Christians that you have the right answer, when frankly, no one does, is just a religion under a different name. You're probably from Winnipeg.
>>77672587
no its not, id say its pretty spot on as a metaphor. somebody said false equivalence to you and shut down a shitty argument of yours at some point and you went "hmmmm... im going to use that clever sounding phrase ASAP, regardless of whether or not it's relevant"
>>77675022
>someone wrote the name Jesus in a log book, that's proof.
No it's not. Good luck! ^_^
>>77674947
I've given him several different sources of Jesus existing, and he just says retarded shit. Read the actual posts, you are also a retard.
>>77675085
>http://www.livescience.com/38014-physical-evidence-jesus-debated.html
I have to believe in Jesus to be a scientist?
Sigmund Freud want's to know what your psychological disposition is.
>That's because, from fragments of text written on bits of parchment to overly abundant chips of wood allegedly salvaged from his crucifix
lmao, this is your "article" did you read it?
>>77672877
>2+2=4
>2+2=/=5
>Nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I don't care if you use black magic.
Horseshit.
If you were threatened with losing your job, your family, and your home, you would as quickly admit that 2+2=5 as you would proudly proclaim that black people are the same as Japanese.
And, after a time, your ego would demand you truly believe both statements.
There is a holy inquisition going on right now, little different from the famous one a few hundred years ago.
No one has been burned at the stake, yet, but remember that the Church of Equality is only 50 years young.
>>77674998
You want to disregard historical accounts and physical evidence bearing the name of Jesus and his brother as well as his father and say it's all fake or hearsay?
You can't be saved. Good luck.
>>77672741
>whether or not my holy book is factual has no bearing on whether or not my religion which is based on it is true.
yeah, nah
>>77675120
>>77675221
>written text is hearsay
again, what?
>>77675114
No actually, it's not. It's what you did, no amount of deflection will fix it.
Also, i can make the argument that everything we know we heard or learned from someone else, so on one level you're right ^_^
>>77675221
Hahahaha. 10/10 if troll. If not kill yourself.
>>77675161
I have read the posts, and the only person I see missing anything is you. If you want to keep proving my point, go ahead, clearly you feel insulted and have to lash out like a child. You are being what you try to put down others as and frankly it is hiliarious.
Keep it up.
>>77675223
Saying something that's not true, doesn't make it true.
Facts are tricky things. They don't go away.
>>77675240
>one part of it is false therefore everything is false
yeah, nah
>>77675235
Historical accounts ? like those records written long after he died?
Or ledgers with the incredibly common name Jesus on it?
Yea, maybe you're right, lmao.
>>77675317
irrational shitposting is not an excuse.
>>77675290
Everyone gets what hearsay is, just apparently not you i guess.
>>77674957
Open your brain tank Charlie, cuz I'm about to lay some Premium 91 Octane Historiography on you.
MOST HISTORY IS "HEARSAY"
If we thew out all the History that we only knew from people writing down what happened we would have to throw out
>The life of Jesus
>The Life of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle
>Anything Alexander the Great Accomplished
>The idea that Julius Caesar died on the Ides of March or that he was stabbed by Brutus
>That there even was a Brutus
>The entirely of the Peloponnesian War
>The existence of Confucius
>Anything whatsoever relating to ancient Sumer
>The existence of Lewis & Clark
>Any so called extermination of Native Americans
>The existence of some 84 of the 113 Popes
>The existence of Charles Martel or that the Battle of Tours even happened
>Carthage
But you wouldn't understand any of that because
YOU'RE NOT A HISTORIAN
>>77670006
This kind of mentality is incredibly narcissistic, viewing people who espouse the milk of human kindness as 'useful idiots', when looked at somewhat cynically.
>>77675463
two officials discussing a dissident is hearsay?
what?
>>77675376
You seem to be confusing the big bang theory and atheism, anon.
>>77675468
Yea this i can agree, but it doesn't help your case for proving Jesus is real, in fact it hurts it.
>>77675527
I mean if it's enough proof for you, godspeed.
Good luck ^_^
>>77673055
thats great, but you dont know what subjective means. youre not mentally well enough equipped to tackle solipsism, dude. also muh simulation hypothesis is fine as a thought experiment, but when you deal with a problem in the real world it is up to you and the other party to define what is and is not to be used as evidence. facts are useful here because they can be verified.
>>77675376
How mad was the person who made this
>>77675579
Do you have any thesis accounting for the fundation of Christianism which is more reasonably believable?
>>77674876
did you even read my post? are you a bot?
>>77675354
And what am I missing? Go ahead, enlighten me.
>>77674172
But how do you know they are facts? All information is relative.
In all truth, of all the things "you know," your experiences shape relatively few of them. And even your own experiences are subject to bias and incorrectness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHFqFP-Li_o
>>77675723
Nope.
>>77675579
>>77675468
Do you deny all of this?
You necessarily have to if you wish to deny one, you must deny all of the others.
>>77675579
If Jesus isn't real, how come none of the opponents of Christianity in the first century put his existence into question?
I'm sure you can explain this convincingly ;)
>>77675802
Are you familiar with the concept of falsificationism in science?
>>77675541
Basically it works like this.
Either:
>Jesus was a real person and we DO have evidence for it.
Or
>Jesus was not real
>And Most of History wasn't real
>And we have 6,000 years of worthless pieces of paper and tablets laying around that are nothing but abject lies that we should just burn.
>>77675775
It's dangerous to assume that there are no facts or truths.
As i said though, there are objective facts in the universe, you can tell me that the earth isn't real, but it doesn't matter, because the fact continues despite your inability to understand how it's real.
>>77668954
Jesus man, no one actually believes in any of that stuff, it's just easier to pretend that you do so you can blame your failures in life on a deity that "planned" it for you.
Stop making these
>>77675702
nowhere near as angry as the children who post those cringy atheist memes on reddit, friend
>UGHHH DAD I DON'T WANNA GO TO CHURCH IT'S SO BORRRING
>WHY CAN'T I STAY HOME AND WATCH ANIME
>>77675387
here, try this:
>each falsehood which is proven lowers the likelihood that subsequent sections are true
>>77668954
>Atheism is just as much of a religion as Christianity.
lol, no.
>>77675932
It was actually a discussion about religion then just turned into a debate about atheism
>>77675970
Prove this bullshit statement immediately.
>>77676002
Evolution has not been observed therfore requires as much faith religion
>>77675468
Socratest, plato, aristotle, alexander, causar, brutus, the peloponnesian war, confucius, ancient sumer, lewis and clark, native americans, 84 popes, martel and carthage don't claim to have raised from the dead and ascended to heaven and if you swear allegiance to them you wont go to hell, though.
>>77672455
Atheism really isn't a belief system in the way that organized religion is. I understand the idea that it's a fundamental belief, but atheists don't have a common, shared belief system outside of a common lack of belief in any God. In this instance, theists want to impose that label in order to make the two beliefs seem equal. It's like people arguing about their favorite basketball team, and I have no interest in basketball whatsoever, yet they treat my lack of interest as just another team to discuss.
>>77675807
I think the farther back into recorded history you go the more interpretative it becomes, what i personally believe and what is fact wont necessarily be the same thing in regards to history due to the nature of it's recording.
to claim factual information from the time of Jesus is a very big claim to make, but i understand it's all historians have to go on which is why all of their findings are typically cross checked using various sciences.
Nothing of the sort exists for Jesus.
>>77676107
Evolution isn't atheist.
>>77675871
Sure, what's your point?
>>77675912
>you can tell me that the earth isn't real, but it doesn't matter, because the fact continues despite your inability to understand how it's real.
You only believe it to be real.
Unless you've personally gone up in a space ship, or have travelled every possible meter of the Earth, then you're just taking everyone's word that it exists.
For all you (and most people, technically) know, the Earth could be flat, it could be a square, the universe might not exist, you could live in the Truman Show.
>objective facts exist
As do Unknown Unknowns- things that you don't know you don't know.
>because the fact continues despite your inability to understand how it's real.
I can say this just as easily in regards to any other argument, no matter how implausible it sounds to us because of what we've been told.
Note I'm not saying the Earth isn't real, or that it's flat. I believe it to be real and spherical, but I don't know for sure and I will never know for sure until I gain enough control over it.
>>77675892
That's an ultimatum.
Just because there is no proof Jesus exists, doesn't mean there is no proof that other parts of history.
It's possible he was real, but there is very little evidence, there is more evidence for dinosaurs as i say.
>>77676135
This. All except one are possible to probable. One is highly improbable.
>>77676207
Stirner's philosophy goes hard man.
Hard.
>>77672972
>The Earths age is relevant to modern day religion because nobody is going to rewrite the bible
Like most, you confuse the Christian bible with the older Jewish texts.
The New Testament is supposedly an account of events roughly 2000 years ago.
The Old Testament is the Jewish 'Bible'.
The supposed history of the Jews.
This reliably dates to 1800 years before Jesus, most say far older.
This is the source of Genesis, Adam and Eve, the serpent, Noah's flood, the 6 day creation, the Nephalim, angels, the Exodus, Sodom and Gammora, all the shit that liberals laugh at.
You know, the same Jew Bible that Islam is based off of.
Why do lefties hate Christianity with such fevor, yet love Islam with every fiber of their being?
They're both a religion. They're both based on the same Jew religion Libs hate with a passion. Yet libs give Islam a pass for believing in the Jew Bible while hating Christians for believing in the same thing.
Just maybe, religious belief is an unavoidable part of humanity.
>you idiots actually believe the earth round
smdh, globies.....
religion is the ultimate form of cuckoldry
>>77675579
How much you do you all want to bet he doesn't dispute the existence of Plato, Aristotle, and Homer? Yet there is less proof of their existence then Jesus himself.
At this point, he's demonstrated confirmation bias and special pleading. He's just trying to weasle his way out of any notion that could lead to Jesus because he would be held accountable for himself. Plato and Aristotle don't tell people how to live nor hold them accountable for nothing, so he would believe in them.
>>77676207
Well, philosophy isn't my realm, but i find that people who make these arguments go in circles and never develop any answers.
Philosophy is the science of asking questions, science seeks to answer them.
I know things because they can be proven, i do not need to see something to know it is there per-say, understanding mathematics and physics will prove this to you. Best of luck in your studies, i suggest working towards quantum mechanics, it will help you.
>>77676135
Don't change the argument.
The discussion is whether or not there is sufficient evidence of the existence of Jesus.
There is as much evidence for him as all of those aforementioned Historic events places and figures.
The religion surrounding Jesus is no more relevant to the evidence of his existence than weather or not Alexander the Great could cum voluminous buckets of jizz into his many wives is to the evidence of his existence.
>>77676193
We can't know that we're right, but we can know that we're wrong.
The only way we can proceed is try to make several hypothesis and try to eliminate them.
Currently there is no remaining alternate hypothesis as to the fundation of Christianity that holds better than the historical Jesus.
>>77676252
It is an ultimatum
It's an ultimatum because THERE IS PROOF OF JESUS
But to throw out that proof as insufficient would necessitate throwing out the proof of all the others on the same grounds
Because it's all the same type of proof.
>>77676098
simple:
Youre walking in a desert and you pick up a book. You turn to chapter 1. Chapter 1 is about a 7-headed monster that can disappear and grant wishes.
Chapter 2. is about a city made entirely of jellybeans
Chapter 3. is about how you can save a person from dying by placing a wooden spike through their chest.
You come across a traveller who is on the brink of death from dehydration. Given that chapter 1 and 2 are obviously mythical in nature, is it wise to take the medical advice spelled out in chapter 3?
>>77676333
I do dispute them, but nobody cares if they existed, they care about the teachings and the ideas of their existence more so.
Don't be angry. Please show the confirmation bias and special pleading.
>>77676489
>simple
>proceeds to spout bullshit
Cool proof, faggot.
>>77676395
yeah thats cool guy, but the evidence of his existence is irrelevant to proving that he's the messiah. see how that works?
>>77676541
cool rebuttal.
>>77676138
Because atheists continue to be the most aggressive proselyters out there. Atheism resembles a religion more strongly than many religions do.
>>77676462
That doesn't mean it's true or that there is sufficient evidence for it. You can arrive to correct conclusions using incorrect process, this is a type of fallacy.
>>77676475
where is the proof?
>>77676543
>Make claim
>Be Proven wrong
>Change subjects
>Act like being proven wrong on the original point doesn't matter
See how that works?
>>77673324
>>religion gives humans an evolutionary advantage.
Silly leaf.
I said "Belief is an evolutionary advantage".
Religion is a consequence of belief, not a direct benefit.
Religion is sometimes a benefit, sometimes a detriment.
>>77672486
>>77672663
> Prove someone lived 2 millenia ago using science
KYS
Do you understand that it's nearly impossible for artefacts to survive that long, and that multiple personalities in history can't be proven to exist if we dismiss people writing about them.
>>77676676
>claim that jesus is the messiah
>can't get there, settle for "jesus existed"
>claim victory
derp.
>i have a gun that shoots rainbows
Prove it?
>yeah, nah i have a gun though. checkm9
>>77676808
I agree and as to my original point is sufficient enough to say.
>>77668954
>christianity, islam and judiasm (abrahamic religions)
>"my book says that he said that god said-"
>mass faith in the word alone
>no actual objective evidence
>literally just hearsay and anecdotes
/religion
There is a reason it's called "blind faith". It's a form of population control. Convince people that they don't need proof, and you now have a bunch of ignorant believers at your fingertips. Ignorance is the most exploitable thing in the world oh lawd
>>77676207
>>77676252
>>77676475
>>77676639
http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-truth/maps/archaeological-and-external-evidence
https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/surprising-archaeological-find-proof-of-jesus-existence
>>77676207
Stirner is intense.
>>77676263
I actually started reading him ironically because of /lit/ and /leftypol/, but now nothing is real anymore. I still act and function as I did beforehand, but that's only out of necessity and in line with Stirner's egoist philosophy anyways.
>>77676370
>Well, philosophy isn't my realm, but i find that people who make these arguments go in circles and never develop any answers.
Yeah, I've found philosophy has nothing to do with finding answers, just asking different questions. It's a wise decision to make it a hobby, but certainly not a career (i.e. philosophy major or something like that).
>Philosophy is the science of asking questions, science seeks to answer them.
Well, most thought experiments are entirely unsolvable or reproducible (assuming you are practicing ethical science).
>I know things because they can be proven,
Well, all human beings are rational (or believe they are rational, at least). However my point is that the proof doesn't exist, only that there is no way for each person to truly know that something is empirically true.
>Best of luck in your studies
Thanks, you too!
> i suggest working towards quantum mechanics
I'll look into it, and I might as well suggest you look into Max Stirner's The Ego and Its Own. Avoid pure nihilism, though.
>>77676918
This is not evidence however, it is a hopeful find that has not been researched properly. People got excited and wrote some articles, this is not sufficient proof until it has become evidence.
I would also argue one of those articles is too biased to be taken seriously.
>>77676628
>That doesn't mean it's true
I asked about falsificationism because I wanted to know if you understood that a theory can't be proven true.
As for the evidence, it's not the best but it's to be expected in that area and period. The concurrent theories have much bigger problems than the Jesus theory.
>>77673719
>You're taking the actions of a few individuals and making claims about all of them
>these crazy fucks account for a few hundred thousand, at best
A FEW hundred thousand.
How many people does it take to create a religion?
If memory serves, Scientology was created by two people. Over lunch.
Joseph Smith created Mormonism after looking into a magic hat.
Are those not religions?
>>77676517
>Please show the confirmation bias and special pleading.
>>77675468
All of this is backed up by credibility either through other historical references or through direct PHYSICAL archeology. Same with Jesus.
>>77677054
Yes it is. Already been confirmed as a genuine ancient artifact by Dr. Andre Lemaire, who is the leading authority on such matters.
Evidence:
that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
GROUND FOR BELIEF
Now gtfo.
>>77677104
I understand where you're going but it is not enough to say Jesus existed.
Dinosaurs have much more provable existence than most accounts in human history. As we move forward in time history will have more sources for proof (hopefully, baring catastrophe)
I understand historians dont have much to work with and have made discoveries mast on accounts, but we are no closer to proving Jesus existed in this debate.
I think it's possible he existed, but the other side of me says it's just as likely he is a story that has been retold or altered to fit the cults of mithra at the time.
>>77677158
I agree.
>>77672245
No. No it won't. If someone pushes 2+2=5, then a community might come to believe it, but it won't change the fact that every time to put 2 objects next to 2 more objects, you will have 4 objects.
By the way, if what you are saying were true, the earth would have been the center of the universe for something like 1500 years just because of Christianity. But of course it wasn't. There had to be facts to be discovered before the opposite could be proved true.
>>77677287
Genuine ancient artifact and proof Jesus existed are two very different things, nice try though.
>>77673976
>So, according to you as i udnerstand it, science is nonsense and they are all wrong. I do not believe this, good luck!
This is where all 'Athiests' fail.
Read that one more time.
>I do not believe this
Why are you espousing your beliefs while worshipping Science?
Science is a process, not a belief.
Are you trying to turn science into a religion?
If not, leave your beliefs out of any scientific discussion.
Belief is for church, not a laboratory.
>>77675376
because a magic man making everything is the only possible explanation for the universe. Christfags and their shit straw-men,.
