This is the youth of 2016 /pol/
this is the reason why the western civilization is in decline.
I don't understand how kids can be so uneducated on their own nationality, let alone their whole fucking civilazation.
Link
NOW
>>77575734
subversion
>>77575806
have fun senpai
http://m.9gag.com/gag/aReQjEy
Välkommen till globalism
>>77575734
Meanwhile nationalism is thriving in Israel, really makes you think
>>77575734
Kids these days are more interested in Dressing provocatively and shaving their heads and leaving a ponytail at the top. The media doesn't like nationalists. Remember what happened the last time a nationalist got into power.
>>77575861
Åkesson is our only hope honestly
>You will never work in an immigration office that turns away boatloads of white, liberal Swedes back to certain death
>>77575875
it really does make you think
Whenever I hear that, it just tells me they are lazy. They have no desire to make the place they have lived and grown up in a better place.
Having no civic pride will just means the area turns into a shithole.
>>77575734
Nationalism is bad mkay.
Left is the duden - most famous German dictionary.
>>77575927
Åkesson skulle ha varit en god idea vid förra valet men här sitter vi nu efter en flyktingkris.
>>77575946
>white, liberal Swedes back to certain death
Let them die, they're the cancer of Sweden. Every day I get hear so much dumb shit from my gf on what people say on kikebook.
>>77575734
I can understand it, at least here.
It's called Common Core.
>>77575734
Why are people using this shitty argument, "I don't want to be proud of something I didn't choose" ?
You didn't choose your parents either. Does this mean that you can't love them ?
>>77576022
Linguistic control in action. That is disgusting.
>>77575734
>You cant be proud of being part of a nation but you can be proud of being born faggot or nigger ;^)
>>77576025
Det är aldrig för sent.
>>77575734
It's really not about pride, it's more about survival. At least, it was the case for the vast majority of human history. The pride people felt in their location was a result of having to stick together against outside forces.
I always disliked people who say "nationalism and being proud of the country your born in is stupid"
Nationalism has nothing to do with the country you're born in, but the country you call or want to call home.
Leftists don't understand the idea of being proud of somebody or something else because their parents never said "I'm proud of you."
>>77575927
>>77576025
>>77576156
(((Sverigedemokraterna)))
there is literally nothing wrong with that statement.
>>77575734
They would feel like this 'location' would be something to be proud of and to protect if they ever fucking left it for more than a week to some beachholiday.
I understand where they are coming from and I have felt and still kind of feel like that. But you have to realize there are people who will gladly take it for themselves if you let them.
>>77576156
Det är för sent för en vanlig konservativ. Egentligen behövs det ännu hårdare mått för att städa upp bl. a Malmö. Om man vill att Sverige ska stanna svenskt.
>>77576116
You're implying that they actually think about what they say, and not just regurgitate whatever """"argument"""" sounds the best.
The people who do that, are not smart people and, have been indoctrinated well by the government schools.
>>77576262
meant to say more than a week to something else than a beachholiday
>>77575734
I used to think like this. "Why be proud of being born in a certain place? A place is just a place like any other. The same goes for your race."
Exposure to other cultures sure changed that view
>>77576260
you could write a creepypasta and just include random pictures of Czech towns and it would be really creepy
If I say I'm proud to be German i get called a Nazi and lose my job.
>>77576374
Czechia is a nice place.
If I didn't like Sweden so much I'd consider migrating there :^)
I bet the people that think this way were the type of kid who would walk 10 feet in front or behind their parents whenever they went out.
>>77576262
I believe it's way more than just 'a location you're born in'.
It's the heritage, culture, people, traditions and the history you should be proud in, and not just the country.
It goes deeper than that.
>>77576274
>Malmö
>städa upp
välj igen
Why on earth would I be proud of a country that defends me, teaches me or is in line with my values?
>>77576460
ingen**
>>77575734
Islam will wipe these cucks away, and then we can start over. Allahu Akbar.
>>77576460
>Han vill inte städa upp Malmö
>>77576523
>Han vill inte städa upp Malmö
ge bort det till Danmark favä, familj. Det finns inget värt i Malmö
>>77576260
seriously? it presupposes that all people are equal and the difference between nations is a location. a nation has very little to do with a location, only insofar as the people of a nation usually live close to eachother by necessity. a nation is about a shared culture and heritage including genetics. a dog born in a stable is still a dog and not a horse
>>77575875
nationalism thrives when there is an imminent foreign threat i.e. angry mudslimes
>>77575734
You *should* realize that being proud of the location you were born is actually a bit ridiculous anon. Don't be proud (or ashamed) of the circumstances of the hole you entered the world through. What matters is what you've done since you got here.
You *should* also understand the culture and people you were born to, and to have a sort of pride in that, but it would be stupid to let that turn into blindness, either to the vices of your own or the virtues of the others.
Instead of taking a reasonable middle path these days we seem to split instead, into two groups of unreasoning extremists.
A house divided against itself cannot stand. THIS is why western civilization is crumbling around us.
>>77576607
>Han bryr sig inte om sitt lands territorium
>Han vill hellre överge en del av sitt land än att lägga ner tid och pengar på att fixa det.
>>77575734
Not an argument.
>>77576698
the problem is this american idea of nation = country is being exported to the younger generations in europe. keep your liberal poisons to your containment island pls
>>77575734
You can also feel proud of where you made it.
>>77575734
>I don't understand nationalism, it's ridiculous.
>I should let all these other nationalist people get in. They will share my sense of non-nationalism once they'll live next to me.
This is just even more ridiculous to me. You can want a perfect society where everybody love each other. But it's not what your doing.
I guess this picture tries to display that like they just have no feeling for their country/culture, but actually they have feelings, they hate it because of war/colonialism/imperialism/whitemalism/whatever.
>>77575734
>9fag
>>77576663
Nationalism naturally does not thrive in societies that are dumned down and shamed for being proud of being white by the very same hands that rejects multiculturalism in their own borders. We are under the threat of Islam but the jew media won´t let us know, because that would involve the white race becoming stronger. They are a special kind of evil these people.
>>77576607
Som om vi vil have det.
Det er hvad der sker når Danmark ikke tager sig af jer, hva?
>>77576698
Those 2 houses are:
The realists and the PC/SJW crowd
The One is right and the other just doesn't want to hurt anybodies feelings.
>>77575861
>>77575927
Völkischer Aufschrei when?
>>77576262
All these shitstains wanting to live in some socialist nogun paradise like Venezuela or Brazil need to be forcibly relocated there for a few months
>>77575734
It seems to come from being generally ungrateful for literally everything, mixed with a heavy dose of cultural marxism spread out over their lives.
>Nationalism = thinking your country/culture are SUPERIOR to others or deserve more advantages/privileges than others based on unfair grounds.
>>77575734
The thing that retards that say this don't realise that you used to be proud of your monarch/govt for actually looking out for you, instead of tricking you out like a $80/hr crack whore to every other nationality.
You also should have felt proud that your parents and grandparents before them achieved towards the betterment of society and use that inspirational pride to achieve your own feats, It had jack all to do with were you lived because borders change all the time
>>77575734
You are not proud to be born in a location. But you are proud to contribute to a society you are a member of, and you should be willing to defend this society, if you like it.
>>77576761
Not an american idea buddy, blame or praise on that one goes to the frogs. #lrn2history
>>77576884
No I think the realists are increasingly finding themselves feeling exposed between multiple groups of savages. The SJWs are horrible but so are the Stormfags and they seem to be more active than ever as well.
>>77576660
>it presupposes that all people are equal and the difference between nations is a location
no it doesn't in the slightest. all it says is that there is no point in taking credit for something you could not influence - your place of birth. All that nationalism should amount to is gratefulness for the fortunate fortuitous event of not having been born in a shithole. But most nationalists you encounter want it to look like they chose their place of birth and therefore deserve recognition or whatever.
>>77577032
That's actually a really good example of how they think. They no longer associate success with effort. Similar to how they vilify the rich, regardless of who or how they made it.
Countries with low crime and high GDP/capita are "privileged." To want to stay that way is "unfair" and "preferential."
It's really sickening.
>>77575734
We're dooooommed
>>77577160
>these mouths....
>>77575734
Stop being defeatist, most /pol/acks used to be liberals.
>>77577222
You're not lucky or fortunate. Your birth wasn't an accident. You couldn't have been born as some nigger in Africa, so it's not worth contemplating.
Your conception was the product of the choices and effort of two of your countrymen.
>>77577222
>your place of birth
did you even read my post? its not about where you are born. a somali born in brno is not a czech, but setting that core principle aside just because you dont have control over something doesnt magically make it disappear, the world is not a nice and fair place and outlooks on it should be based on whats physical and real not what makes you feel happy about it
>>77577160
in swedens case they are specifically trying to emulate you but france should be destroyed too imo
>>77575734
Because you let idiot leftists take over your education system to teach self hate.
Swedish colonialsm was baaaad hate urself because white.
Remember the great swedish slave trading empire?
Oh wait it didnt exist
>>77575734
>This is the youth of 2016 on tumblr and twitter /pol/
M8, there's a reason they pay young people to push this bullshit: the generation of 11-14 year olds coming up are the most un-politically correct group in twenty years or more.
They pushed too hard, too fast, and kids pushed right back against their bullshit.
SJWs on campus will be a thing of the past by 2020. It's why they are all going for broke right now.
>>77577292
To be honest you have doomed yourself when you have added in your list that blindly and unquestionably following a crucified jew is something worth being proud of.
>>77577666
I remember seeing a statistic here in sweden a few years ago that SD had something like 11% support in schools (in line with the normal support they have) and i also read that some people drew nazi shit once so maybe it isn't completely lost.
>>77577435
I understand that nationalism isn't tied up to a place but rather to a society. but you didn't had a choice in what society you were gonna be born into either.
As in, I feel pity for the muslims for their having been born in a hellhole. But an average nationalist, I think, gets a feeling of "schadenfreude" when comapring his life in a 1st world country to a muslim's.
Western chauvinism, come to think of it, is the only acceptable form of "gratefulness" one ought to embrace.
>>77575734
i used to be liberal, and probably 90% of /pol/
dont ive up hope
>>77575734
Nationalism is a "social construct", as in it has to be actively promoted if you want people to have it.
If the opposite happens, if it is being actively demonized, then what exactly do you expect?
>>77575734
>Nationalism
>born location
KEK
All the western mind would be really funny if it wasn't here.
>nationalism
>a physical location
tip top kek
>>77575734
Literally all kids are like this, they only find nationalism when they need to start living on their own.
When you get everything for free (as in, when you're a kid), you don't value anything. Once you grow older, you learn to value your family, your countrymen, and your nation.
>>77575875
Because they're not pussies over there.
>>77575957
Hvem er hver anden?
>>77577835
Children in particular are acutely tuned to "unfairness".
So when the SJW narrative burst into their civics classes with its central push of "white people are evil" their kiddy unfairness radars went off the scale, even if they lacked the words to describe it. Turns out you can't teach cognitive dissonance, it's a choice. It can't be forced.
The SJW nonsense became just another dumb thing grown ups try to force on them.
>>77576871
Hvorfor vil de ikke livet?
>>77577435
The question was who invented the nation-state? And the answer was France. A state which first invented its own nation, and then exported the resulting ideology quite successfully.
Fun fact: less than 15% of 'French' people actually spoke French in 1789.
>>77575734
I'm Canadian and I feel this way. All throughout school we were told that Canada was a "Cultural Mosaic" and I never felt we had a true national identity. Our government seems more concerned with appeasing people like the aboriginals and recent immigrants than it does supporting the multi-generational Canadians like me. As soon as I had the opportunity to do so I left. I'm actually starting to feel a bit of national pride for my new home or at least more than I do for my birth home which is kind of weird since I've only been here a few years.
>>77575734
>I find the concept of being proud to be born in a location ridiculous
It is, and that's why immigration is never going to work. If you're a minority and don't have ties to the country you're born in, the population is going to lose its sense of unity, and the country will destroy itself.
The United States is an exception and did well for a while, because 90% of Americans were European up until the 1950s and had built their own legacy and history, but the very concept of being a "melting pot" and a nation built on immigration is now destroying the US. Unlike Europe, national identity isn't tied to your race.
The sad thing is, as a result of American pop culture being so pervasive, even Europe has started to adopt this bullshit ideology of multiculturalism, as if national identity is only tied to geography and politics.
My love for my country isn't primarily based in its geographical location, its laws or its politics. It's based on my love for the Norwegian people, and our shared culture and history. It's like family. If some strangers move into your house, they don't become part of your family. Similarly, if your house burns down, you still have your family.
>>77578741
they managed to convince a bunch of people to call themselves french but it wasnt (and still really isnt) a real identity or nation any more than communist is an identity or nation
>>77575845
git
>>77575875
Does make me go hmm.
Wow...... Goosebumps
>>77576230
Are you that russaboo?
Meh. I'm voting (((swedendemocrats))) next time because if I have to choose between a Somali that celebrates Christmas and works with my wife or a Muslim, i'd choose the first.
Glory to the white race! L'chaim!
>taking pride in something you didn't personally achieve
baka desu famalam
>>77575927
What do you think he'll do? Kick out all non-whites? Simly stopping immigration is not a solution.
Also, see >>77576258
>>77578946
It's real in a sense, in the sense that any widely accepted social fiction affects the behavior of many individuals.
Why would one be proud of a once proud nation that is now destroying itself?
Almost all western nations have been doing this to themselves for the last few decades.
Mandatory service in all western countries when.
>>77575734
fucking cuck
>>77576260
Leave this country, pls
>>77579519
>Why would one be proud of a once proud nation that is now destroying itself?
First of all, it's the jews (thanks to america) that are destroying most of Europe. Second of all. I can't be proud of what my nation has accomplished in the past? In that case just throw American patriotism out the window since your nation was destroyed 1776.
>>77579701
>Second of all. I can't be proud of what my nation has accomplished in the past?
Remember, even if the Leftist accepts this narrative, they will claim that there are only things to be ashamed of in the past of any Western Nation
>>77575734
>I have absolutely no feelings of love for my family
>I find the concept of being proud to be born into a random family ridiculous
>>77580166
>Remember, even if the Leftist accepts this narrative, they will claim that there are only things to be ashamed of in the past of any Western Nation
Yeah well they can go fuck themselves.
>this is the reason why the western civilization is in decline.
You have to prove such a claim.
>>77580686
Nothing can be proven only presumed. Stop being such an autist and entertain the notion.
>>77576698
Its stupid to tell others how they should or shouldn't feel
>>77575734
So, you must be oppose to lgbt nationalism.
>>77577801
>blindly and unquestionably
>when all western scholars for all of recorded history have been religious
A
FUCKING
THIEF
>>77576698
>walking highway cone
>>77575734
>I don't understand how kids can be so uneducated on their own nationality, let alone their whole fucking civilazation.
It's not really about that. The leftists /do/ have a concept of nationality and civilizational values.
They're the first to say "diversity and tolerance" are swedish values. They claim "openness" (aka open borders, taking on people until the ship sinks) is a national goal.
However, they are also programmed by the marxist dogma to immediately deny the existence of swedish identity, values or a national goal if you ask them. It's a logic pretzel in their minds, and they don't seem to be aware they're both saying nationalism and cultural identity is worthless and bad because >muh moral relativism.
In the next second they're complaining about "nazis" who disagree with their relativist values.
It really makes no sense, but it's more in the virtue signalling mental complex than them not having an idea of nationalism or civilization.
I don't see the problem here. Of course a bear wouldn't be able to understand nationalism.
>>77575734
In an ideal world, this would be a fine mindset, but when everyone else but you has in group preferences, you're going to get reemed. Everyone is realizing this and we're voting Trump.
A nation's pride can only be earned through the hard work of its people.
What makes people proud of their nations are those things that require sacrifice, skill and perseverance.
The modern youth is oblivious to any of this, therefore they don't see anything to be proud about.
The modern youth is used to being a leech.
>>77576401
That fucking sucks Hans
>>One day, you'll be able to fight back Anon
>>77575734
Well, nationalism is inherently based on non-material concepts, so it's easy to dismiss as ludicrous. People don't understand, though, that it is a necessary delusion, if you will, to ensure the security of a free state. I am proud to be an American and would fight in the military if they would let me (I take anti-anxiety meds,) but in no way do I think that Americans are superior as a group of people as opposed to individuals from other countries. Look at the Left here. The country, though, is what is worth fighting for, the Constitution, even if that means leaving those who can't fend for themselves in others countries out in the cold to lookout for themselves. There has to be a fucking line in the sand. Globalism is a lie.
>>77575734
If you are going to use an image macro at least be memeing
I honestly cant tell if this is even supposed to be a meme its so weak
The only thing I can tell is that it is DEFINITIVELY written by a leftist
>poor meme skills
>shits on nationalism
>Mitt ansikte när elden stiger och det Teutoniska raseriet återuppväcks i den Europeiska krigarens själ
>>77575861
tfw bister
If government took away welfare money from leeches, there would ensue a riot, but after a while, those people would learn that you gotta do some form of work to earn your place in the world.
Sadly, governments would do this
>> Should just end the world as we know it, Cut all the power, see how long everyone survives. Libtards die first, only the strongest will survive
>>77575734
The only reason we have science, modern medicine, wealth, technology, knowledge, ... is because of our ancestors.
We owe a large debt of gratitude to the people who built, sustained, fought and died for our countries and regions.
The thought of completely disregarding this is absolute lunacy to me.
>>77575734
A nation is a reflection of it's inhabitants genetics. That's why Africa is a shit hole, because they are dumb. It's as simple as that.
This is basically just saying that they hate themselves.
>>77583460
>A nation is a reflection of it's inhabitants genetics.
So why isn't Australia just a giant prison?
>>77575734
I'll add a side note:
It's easy to not understand being a nationalist if you've been brainwashed by marxist thinking, and think that everyone is the same and equal.
What the fuck would the point of nationalism be if we were all just "human"? But obviously that's not the case.
>>77583510
Because we don't allow shitskins in.
Back to your cuckshed.
>SD
>>77578559
Ask yourself why they are not pussies. Pro tip: it's because they are not shamed during their childhood for being white.
>>77583941
>jews
>white
yeah no.
>>77583827
>gräv en grop för varje böneutrop
Yet they can understand it if Africans have great pride in putting bones through their noses, playing the bongos, fucking in public, and eating eachother.
>>77583747
>we don't sllow shitskins
Nigger, have you been to your local major city recently? Particularly if it's Melbourne or Sydney. They are not Australian cities anymore. They are Chinese and Indian.
>>77583827
>>77577160
The 2020s belong to the Far Right. You may 'think' you've seen how serious this will get, but when the money ends, that's when shit gets real. Remember, Germany went from Weimar to Nazi in just ten years.
>>77584208
At least the Chinese are somewhat intelligent and contribute to the economy in their own way. Indians are also quite hard workers. I'm talking literal shitskin welfare leeches.
Thank god I don't live in one of those cesspit cities though.
>>77583967
My point is that they shame us
>>77584547
Yeah I kinda sounds like you were saying they are white.
>>77584325
>At least the Chinese are somewhat intelligent and contribute to the economy in their own way. Indians are also quite hard workers.
Implying that justified their presence in your country. You're starting to think like Sweden did before the shitskins. Tread carefully.
>>77584578
Not my intention desu
to be honest i felt exactly the same way through my teen years
most teens go through a euphoric leftie stage where they think the world can be a left wing utopia, then slowly grow more conservative as they get older.
The Over-Zeitgeist - which has been influencing us since the French Revolution - is individualism. The groups that we criticize people for ascribing to - wewlad-tier gay rights, refugees welcome, radical leftists - are all premised on furthering the rights of the individual against group norms.
Which, to be quite honest with you family, isn't that bad. Would you REALLY want to live 100 years ago where, yes, people were comparatively redpilled, but where you'd get rejected by your whole village for watching anime or whatever?
>>77576698
And you should be proud of being born here. Why? Because people cross our borders and smuggle themselves here just to enjoy the taste of freedom. People from 3rd world shitholes are willing to bleed for the taste of American life and freedom. Ask any single person from these 3rd world shitholes, and 99% of them would love to be in the United states
>>77575734
>
I have the same feelings as the OP's picture. But I'm still a nationalist from a self interest standpoint. Why the fuck would I want US policy to benefit Mexico, when it can benefit the US?
>>77578803
this, entirely. I went out of my way as a child to learn the history and identity of this bicultural nation.
>>77575734
>so uneducated on their own nationality
It has nothing to do with education, it has to do with the fact that they haven't had to fight for what they have. Pride comes from hard work, extreme struggle and perseverance, or egotistical entitlement (guess which ones kids can equate pride with more easily..)
>>77584710
It's called maturity and gaining knowledge
Leftist programs sound interesting until you look at things like, how are they going to get paid for and where does the liberal path eventually lead?
Then you start working, see the benefits of your planning and hard work, start paying taxes, realize there are people that will never work, not because they can't but because they don't have to. You are paying for them not to work. More liberalism just means more people that you "get" to pay for.
The end game is the worst type of communism where everyone is driven down to the world's worst common denominator.
>>77575734
>>77585299
I'm not sure having to "fight" is the cause of pride but working towards contributing to the national society and working towards a nation that your grand children will be proud of leads to nationalism.
From doing well at school, planning for the future, getting a functional education, finding and developing a career, and becoming less selfish and planning for your family and children.
As your career develops you get work to develop others and help them reach their goals while continuing to improve your own experiences and skills. A high tide floats all boats.
When you look in the mirror you should be proud of your efforts which leads to being proud of your surroundings and nation.
If you are not working, there is nothing to be proud of. If don't have goals, there is nothing to be proud of. If you are a NEET, still rely on your parents, or are on welfare, there is nothing to be proud of.
The liberal agenda does not create pride it creates dependencies, it creates dissension, it is social regression.
Look at the world our grand parents grew up in, now think about the world your grand kids will live in.
At least be proud to vote what ever party encourages actual work, actual pride, and hopefully a future that is better or at least recognizable in 50 years.
>>77586589
such is the God's punishment for filthy protestants and german scum
you have forgotten your traditions and your faith - now enjoy your reward
one day the nations will be abolished and the one glorious united slavic people will rule the world devoid of your subhuman german genes
>>77586788
I suspect you may be the same poster from the other thread about how meme-culture affects kids' brains.
Fight was probably not the most correct word due to implications of external violence; You outlined the idea of pride being grown through accomplishment quite well.
I think it's interesting as goals are still something that are pushed onto children and people in general as a predominantly good thing to have, but I think the disconnect between growing for the sake of the individual and growing for the sake of the group means this pride is intrinsically inward-focused.
The need to categorize, justify and stereotype, regressive indeed!
>>77576698
I am proud of all my that my country has accomplished. I am proud of what my countrymen, and all they do for this great nation. I am thankful for what this country has done for me, and i take pride in the fact that i was born here and am able to contribute to this place.
>>77576698
>sweden.jpg
American education
>>77575734
That will change when they have to fight for clay
>>77589081
Everyone who isn't from Sweden can literally fuck off.
>>77584793
Yes
lul sweden :DD
>>77590268
You're from the Czech Republic. When was your country ever relevant or a 1st world nation?
>>77583827
These are fucking beautiful. Thanks for posting.
>>77575734
It's not pride, it's respect for your ancestors, starting with your parents.
But hey I wouldn't expect retarded leftist kids who shit on family values to understand that. How can you even understand the feeling of belonging to a nation, let alone politics, if you can't even tend to your fucking home properly?
>>77577666
hi satan
You're right.
The generation just come of age will be rebellious like every other generation.
And, like every other generation they will rebel against the norm: pc culture.
>>77575734
betting 100 that that's a girl. They fucking hate any country they're in. They're like destructive fucking vermin.
I am a firm believer that if you do this shit, you should be sent off to the fucking middle east or some shit.
I mean I can't see why they wouldn't want it.
>>77586589
Do you truly think this could be a radical change in our western society as we know it? Have we fucked up? :(
>>77592299
>
>>77592000
You BETTER VOTE BREXIT SAVE ENGLISH SPEAKING NATIONS
>>77575734
It's not the concept of being born in a location. It's the concept of growing up in this location, this location shapes you in to what you are today.
We are a product of the country we grow up in and not being proud of that either means that your country is shit or you have no respect for who you are.
>>77575734
your ID literally say you are a fag
color me fucking surprised
>>77578598
>>77578673
Kirsten birgit pls go, vi har hort nok på ghitas demente udtalelser
>implying it isn't logical to be proud in yourself the most possible ways you can
I bet you don't even cheer for the home team faggot
>>77575734
>that pic
Why do leftists boil down nationalism to pure geography instead of culture and heritage?
>>77575734
Because of consumerism and globalization killing cultural homogeny, people are just born detached into a location.
>>77588042
Liberals love to attack categorizing and stereotyping.
Statistics are real and tangible not an emotion. Accomplishments or lack of are tangible and not an emotion.
Ignoring tangible statistics is ignorance not enlightenment.
Liberals love the ignorant, they are the easiest to manipulate.