http://www.strawpoll.me/10501443
http://www.strawpoll.me/10501443
http://www.strawpoll.me/10501443
Serious question, how do we currently allow gun sales to these types of people? This isn't about getting harder on gun control necessarily its about making sure the people who do buy guns are crime free and mentally stable and not terrorists , right?
>>77493237
Or courshe.
>>77493355
>Serious question, how do we currently allow gun sales to these types of people?
Because big gun corporations don't care who the fuck they sell guns to, they just want shekels.
>>77493237
Vote no you faggots.
All non-Burgers GTFO.
>>77493601
Get out abdul.
>>77493601
>Vote no
>>77493237
>35% of entries were added "accidentally"
> a person getting their name removed can expect to wait 4 years and spend millions of dollars on legal fees
Seems like a great system to base your liberty on
>not allowing terrorist own guns
you fucking fascist liberals
>>77493848
>you are a statist if you oppose terrorists owning guns
Due process you faggots
Uh, no shit? Why aren't they already?
>>77493691
>>77493737
Tell me who decides who gets on the list?
This is a major fucking loop-hole.
>>77493237
Anyone who votes yes is a retarded nigger that doesn't understand that the definition of a terrorist is arbitrary.
It needs more reform
If placed on the lists you should be temporarily barred from owning guns, 6 months.
They then have 6 months to press charges, if they can't remove you from the lists, return your weapons, and you are now allowed to purchase guns again.
The No-Fly list is already unconstitutional if they don't press charges, people should be dropped from the list automatically if they aren't charged.
>>77494067
Because the no fly list is a load of fucking horse shit.
What is the point of gun rights if the government gets to take them away whenever it wants without due process?
>>77494085
>Tell me who decides who gets on the list?
Not you Achmed
SHALL
>>77494242
There should be another comma in that third sentence. What I mean is, they have to charge you, or they have to drop you from the list.
>>77493237
Nigger, every single person that has a police record, was in jail, avoids paying taxes or anything simmilar should be banned as well.
>>77493237
>what is due process
>>77494281
So say Hillary wins, now her Gov decides all people she thinks will cause problems go on the list. Now you can't get a gun. Fucking kill yourself.
I think the question should be why are non born US citizens not thrown out of the country for being on said lists
>>77493237
You're literally fucking retarded if you think banning them is a good idea.
The whole point of the 2nd Amendment is to prevent the government from fucking over the citizens. If you let the government decide who gets a gun and who doesn't, there's no point in having the amendment whatsoever. Amerilards, do I really have to explain your own constitution to you?
To put it simple: You'd like to rightfully rebel against a corrupt government? Guess who's going straight on the terrorist list.
It sounds completely logical to keep people who are on terrorist watch lists to not be allowed to own a firearm. However, remember that in the States they often consider Right-wing Conservative Christians a terror threat if you're a vocal political activist. Wish I had the pictures of the slide shows that used to be passed around.
>>77493355
>>77493521
fuck you dumb reddit faggots.
there is currently ZERO process/regulations for how people get added to these 'lists'.
someone at the CIA or FBI or the ingger himself just says 'oh i think so and so should be added to our list' and BAM, you're on the fucking list.
which means every single person in the country that votes republican will immediately be added to their lists.
>>77493237
>Poll: Should people being investigated by the FBI for gross negligence when handling classified info and racketeering for government influence banned from running for public office?
fixed that for you!
>muh guns
>muh fight against totalitarian gommies
>Oh shit, nevermind Trump says it's OKAY!
Jesus, just bend your ass over at his next rally.
>>77494496
>>77494281
>>77494067
>>77493949
>>77493737
>>77493691
>>77493355
Fucking fascists don't deserve freedom.
>>77494540
>You're literally fucking retarded if you think banning them is a good idea.
>The whole point of the 2nd Amendment is to prevent the government from fucking over the citizens. If you let the government decide who gets a gun and who doesn't, there's no point in having the amendment whatsoever. Amerilards, do I really have to explain your own constitution to you?
>To put it simple: You'd like to rightfully rebel against a corrupt government? Guess who's going straight on the terrorist list.
Listen to this man /pol/. He speaks the TRUTH!
Fuck all of the Cunts who votes Yes on this poll.
>>77493237
owning, or purchasing?
taking your guns away isn't the same as keeping you from getting more guns temporarily
>>77494242
bullshit at your fucking 6 months.
they get 72 hours to try to find dirt on me. that is IF this fucking anti american shit goes through.
3 days you statist niggers. if you cant find anything credible then, fuck off with your list.
>>77493237
No. People on the Terrorist Watch list and No Fly list should be given due process.
The no due process part of the no-fly list is what makes this a bad idea.
If someone is so dangerous they can't fly on a plane they're too dangerous to own a gun makes sense. If they're that dangerous press charges and throw them in jail. No longer a threat to society.
>>77493237
if the FBI is watching the terrorist, who cares what guns they own.. they are being watched already right? also, the no fly list has no due process and no way to get off. its completely criminal.
>>77494242
The whole point of the "no fly list" it's that there are no real legal consequences to bring put there, which it's why due process doesn't matter. Airlines are private companies and refusing service isn't really an issue. Liberals are so fucking stupid and don't understand this, assuming that the list will remain as-is, but with additional powers.
They're fucking wrong.
The second the list has real legal consequences, it'll get ripped apart. Those people the FBI was monitoring and keeping tabs on with this list will be able to get themselves removed because, like you said, you can't infringe liberties without cause. Unless they are actually charged with intent in some act, they'll walk.
Fuck you Obama. Fuck you Hillary. Fuck you Trump. Knee jerk reactionary fascism will ruin this country.
>>77494576
>implying this accomplishes anything
>>77493237
>libertarians will vote no
>>77494921
The list itself isn't criminal. The restrictions on movement, and possibly guns, are where it steps into unconstitutional grounds.
>>77494913
>press charges and throw them in jail
fuck that. send them back to fuckoffistan. 99% of the niggers on these lists are fuckers that dont belong here. immigrants.
>>77495034
>retards will vote yes
>>77493237
If due process is involved, then yes.
>>77495108
more like 60%.
>>77495159
but it never will just like there is no due process with the government hacking your shit.
It's one thing to say convicted felons aren't allowed to own firearms, which in some states they can regain the right.
It's entirely different to say someone VAGUELY SUSPECTED of a crime isn't a citizen with full rights.
Don't be an idiot.
>>77494067
Because serving US congressmen have been put on the no fly list. it doesn't make sense
>>77495267
>VAGUELY SUSPECTED of a crime
more like vaguely suspected of considering to commit a crime.
>>77493237
People who are on the terror watch list shouldn't be able to own guns.
People should know WHO is on the terror watch list.
People should know HOW they get on the terror watch list.
People should have to go through a trial and due process to be placed on the watch list.
As good as it sounds, the agency running this list (((Schindler's))) will fuck it up and target specific groups of people, such as conservative groups, like the IRS targeting. It is for this reason, I am against it.
>>77495267
This ^
/thread
>>77494660
then do you agree that the standards should be higher or they should be watched in case, or just level the playing field
>>77495426
I believe every citizen in the United States should not have their rights guaranteed by the constitution should never ever be taken away until they are tried and convicted in a court of law with the option of a trial by jury.
>>77495117
>libertardian detected
fuck no, everyone will end up on the goddamn list. TSA lines will be shorter though
>>77495614
>United States should not have their rights guaranteed by the constitution should never ever be taken away
That is a fucked up sentence,
>>77495684
Then everyone who thinks that the government should have absolute powers over our lives isn't a libertarian?
No, the no fly lists are a joke as they are now. If they required an actual reason to put someone on one, sure. But that's not going to happen.
>>77495614
>I believe every citizen in the United States should not have their rights guaranteed by the constitution ever be taken away until they are tried and convicted in a court of law with the option of a trial by jury.
innocent until proven guilty you fucking retards REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>77495866
>Then everyone who thinks that the government should have absolute powers over our lives isn't a libertarian?
>banning terrorists from owning guns
>government having absolute power over our lives
>>77496034
>banning terrorists from owning guns
What the fuck is a terrorist then?
>>77493237
tough question but i've always held on to the idea that arbitrary government is bad and people shouldn't be deprived of their rights without due process. the sticking point is that holding radical views is not in itself a crime and nor should it be. i endorse free speech and a wide open market place of ideas so any law which basically says don't say anything """radical""" or lose your rights is a tough sell. the only legitimate way to restrict a person's rights is if they've been convicted of something. so if the goal is to take the guns out of the hands of potential terrorists to criminalize some of the other behaviors in which they engage.
>>77496127
>What the fuck is a terrorist then?
People who are going to do harm to others. The only people who would be considered over this would be terrorists themselves. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.
>no due process
>no strict scrutiny
no buy
Stop sucking dicks OP
I got a monster captcha in that poll
Every image I ticked loaded a new one
This is actually a interesting study. On logical dilemmas pol reaches a conclusion that is much more unanimous. However, this question involves a large moral aspect, the result being that pol is more split.
>>77496304
>People who are going to do harm to others.
Who decides this?
>The only people who would be considered over this would be terrorists themselves.
WHO IS FUCKING DECIDING THIS? If an SJW cuck appointed by Hillary saw all your /pol/ posts stored in the NSA data center in Utah would you end up on the terror list as a right wing extremist?
We already know 35% of people on the list have no reason to be suspected.
>conservatives complain about liberals having gun free zones while having these same gun free zones at their own events
why the gop is really pro-gun they should allow people to carry guns at the RNC? oh wait, they are not going to do that because they are cowards.
i would like to see milo give a speech in front of armed audience
>>77496749
if the gop is really pro-gun*
>>77493237
Thing is, the FBI wants over 4 million people on the ban list, they consider nationalists just as dangerous and terrorists
>>77496734
>WHO IS FUCKING DECIDING THIS?
Government. Why the fuck should I care? I'm not a terrorist like you Achmed.
If you guys are so concerned about no due process, then why don't you go protest and vote to appeal no fly lists or modify them to have due process? Your liberty had already been compromised, yet you only complain when your guns are in jeopardy?
Just admit it you just like your guns. I do too but I'm not delusional. Be consistent and not knee-jerk jerkoffs and maybe people will take you seriously.
Only if there has been due process to be put on those lists.
>>77496304
You can get put on the list for shit you put on your social media accounts. Do you really want to lose your rights because some idiot doesn't like your Facebook posts?
>>77496890
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
go die in a fire.
The government can not be trusted unless they fear us.
Should hate speech put you on a terror list?
>>77496914
There are no arguments here.
>>77495108
Thats why you put them to trial. Jury of peers and all that happy horseshit.
>>77493601
This isn't like "mentally ill" where it can be easily manipulated. Getting on an FBI watch list takes a lot more time and work on the part of the government than a hospital file that says yes or no.
I see both causes as good arguments but side with the ban to preserve greater individual freedom and give lip service to the alarmists.
>>77496749
sjws should arm themselves at a milo event to show how pro-gun milo actually is.
all these conservatives are only pro-gun when the people who have the guns think like they do. they act pretty anti-gun when they see new black panther party members with guns.
>>77497039
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
>Athens
>USA
Eat shit retard. We aren't some third world shit hole.
>>77496749
Last I heard they were going to
>>77497108
https://www.rt.com/usa/list-tsa-jetblue-riyannas-950/
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/nyregion/14watchlist.html?_r=0
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10725741/ns/us_news-security/t/-year-old-turns-government-no-fly-list/
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/congress/article49233895.html
>>77497306
wtf point are you trying to make? Are you butthurt because the town is named Athens?
>>77493237
I said no, but "terrorist" needs to be very concisely defined. This could be used as a manipulative tool to attack preppers, or gear fanatics from owning gear that they take pride in. I agree with background checks because that looks at illegal things you have already been convicted for... But the government could choose to label "anyone" a terrorist if it suits their agenda. It's a slippery slope.
>NO DUE PROCESS
>NO
>DUE
>PROCESS
I WANT THE FUCKING LIBERALS IN MY THREAD TO LEAVE
ARE YOU ACTUALLY STUPID ENOUGH TO VOTE YES? MIGHT AS WELL SHIT ON THE CONSTITUTION WHILE YOU'RE AT IT.
GET RID OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM WHILE WE'RE AT IT
>>77497053
Admittedly the idea is actually reasonable, no fly list = no guns. The execution is poor because there's no due process but shouldn't you be trying to fix that?
Why is it that gunfags are literally unwilling to move one inch or negotiate at all?
>>77493237
yes
>>77493237
no
kikes will put everyone on the list
>>77496914
If you put getting rid of that shit to a vote I will vote for it, I live in Arizona what would you like me to do? Fly to DC and stand outside with a sign and be completely ignored?
>>77497594
When you are sentenced for committing a crime you lose your rights.
Felons already lose the right to own guns.
Being suspected of something isn't a crime.
>>77497769
>Being suspected of something isn't a crime.
So you would be ok with someone like Omar Marteen owning a gun?
Why not nullify their fourth amendment rights? It would lead to more arrests and lives saved if we could just break into their homes randomly.
Why not nullify their first amendment rights? That way if anyone reads anything terroristic we can just arrest them for pre-crime.
>>77497108
>but side with the ban to preserve greater individual freedom and give lip service to the alarmists.
Fuck off you moron. There is NO appeasement that can be struct with Commies. You give them something and they ask for MORE.
And on and on it goes. These people do not stop. I vote NO.
>>77494576
>which means every single person in the country that votes republican will immediately be added to their lists.
If only
>>77497976
Before or after he committed a crime?
If anything he did before the shooting was illegal then he goes to court and gets sentenced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
The police can't be trusted to regulate themselves. That is why we have trials.
![23uq1vn[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/megTjXo.jpg "23uq1vn[2].jpg")
>>77493237
Daily reminder that the NRA themselves proposed a bill to block those on the terror watchlists from purchasing a gun; HOWEVER the liberals refused to accept their bill because it included protections against Federal abuse.
When the liberals were given EXACTLY what they've been asking for, but without the ability to create a permanent secret backdoor list to ban all gun owners with no due process and no recourse, the liberals REFUSED TO VOTE FOR IT.
When the (((media))) tries to blame no action on the FBI Watchlist on the NRA, they are lying propaganda-spewing kikes.
The Jew refuses to talk about it.
When a Jew speaks he's lying.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160615/nra-statement-on-terror-watchlists
>>77497720
Isn't that what the liberals do, and where has this county been headed?
But seriously, vote, be active in your communities, there's not much else you CAN do.
At the end of the day all you can say is you tried, and if things get real bad, time to overthrow the govnt again.
>>77498281
Commies will not stop until every US citizen is disarmed.
I actually don't know if I support this under ZOG, not because of muh liberty but because they could really fuck over the burgeoning white consciousness or redneck militias. It would be so much easier just to remove kebab.
>>77498269
>Before or after he committed a crime?
You didn't answer my question.
>>77498323
I'm probably one of 3 people in their 20s that actually votes on local issues so I'm already on it
>>77498269
Someone hijacked my response.I was agreeing that trials are needed for no fly lists.
>>77498063
This so much.
Not even about being a libertarian it is about common fucking sense. Anything other than this is facism.
>>77498768
I did you stupid nigger, when you commit a crime you have a trial, the government is not allowed to take your rights away for no reason. (I already said this)
Saying you are going to kill people is illegal. If the police could prove Omar was conspiring to do something wrong, then they have full rights to arrest him. This isn't fucking minority report.
I'm sorry your peanut brain can't understand that.
I love guns but honestly yes. However they need to make it so they have to go to a judge with a legitimate reason to be put on the list and there needs to be a way to appeal that decision if you feel you've been put on wrongly.
conservatives are not for gun rights for all people. if they had the opportunity they would disarm the new black panther party and leftists. i remember when they were butthurt about a black panther party member holding a nightstick. i remember when alex jones was all fearful when new black panther party members were exercising their first amendment rights.
If leftists really want the right-wing to change their views on the 2nd amendment they should carry guns to right-wing events. you will see all these right-wing hypocrites calling for gun control if leftists did this.
>>77499169
>when you commit a crime you have a trial,
So you are in favor of Omar Marteen owning a gun?
>>77493237
Only white people should be allowed fire arms
>>77499154
I'd still see a (you) so you can't steal responses.
But I agree, if the no fly list meant you were convicted of a crime then of course you lose your rights.
>>77498768
I'll answer it for him, yes. He was investigated, the case was dropped. There is no reason to restrict his access at that point.
One guy slipping through the cracks isn't a good enough reason to me.
>>77497976
very
>>77499247
>if they had the opportunity they would disarm the new black panther party and leftists.
Conservatives have always been against guns for everyone. Read up on Ronald Reagan disarming the black panthers in the 1960s.
>>77493237
No. You cannot deprive someone of their constitutional rights without due process. If a person is known to be a terrorist or conspiring with terorrists, they should be arrested. Then, and only then, should they have their guns taken.
>>77499247
black panther party members were exercising their 2nd amendment rights*
>>77499288
You can answer this for yourself, did he commit a crime?
>>77499384
>very
So you are just another mudslime terrorist.
I'm not clicking on your dumb poll but yes, yes they should, and conservatives of /pol/ should be put on the terrorist watch list.
>>77499245
you are literally advocating pre-crime punishment
>>77499367
>There is no reason to restrict his access at that point.
Lol there clearly was considering he shoot up 100 people.
give everyone guns then no one has guns
>>77499288
yes you fucking retard.
>>77493237
They should be banned from owning assault rifles.
>>77499483
50, also you do realize that 100 people were shot in Paris, a country where it is completely illegal to obtain guns.
>>77493237
This is a fucking joke, right? You're deranged if you think they should be able to buy firearms.
DUDE SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED LMAO
>>77499313
And owning materials for terrorism , soliciting terrorists or promoting extremism is a crime, wow.
>>77499622
>yes you fucking retard.
>>77499441
>So you are just another mudslime terrorist.
>>77493237
what you really mean is:
>should people put on a list without due process lose their constitutional rights?
Sure, I'll let you chill his 2nd amendment rights if you let me chill some of his other rights.
So how about we take away his 8th amendment rights? we'll subject you to cruel and unusual punishment just because the feds asked you some questions.
How about we allow you to be enslaved until you can petition the government to get taken off the list?
How about we don't allow you to join or a church until you get off the list?
See how autistic it sound with your other rights?
Fuck off you gun grabbing communist scum.
>>77499483
too bad the shits at the fbi couldn't figure that out before it happened.
>>77493237
Putting people on the list should have a due process. If they want to do this the FBI needs to get off their asses and actually do their jobs.
>>77499683
>he literally just described gitmo
>fuck due process
>fuck the 2nd amendment
>fuck the constitution
Yeah, let's let's give the government power to decide who should and shouldn't have rights with no legal proceedings. Why don't we allow the government to arrest people on the FBI watchlist them? You're already taking away their rights so go the whole nine yards if it's for the sake of 'safety'. Anyone on the FBI watchlist can be arrested, searched, and why not executed on top of that?
Everyone that voted yes already doesn't like the constitution.
>>77499634
>50, also you do realize that 100 people were shot in Paris, a country where it is completely illegal to obtain guns.
strawman
mass shootings are very rare in Europe.
>>77493355
If we know they're terrorists, then charge them with terrorism, which is a felony, which bans them from owning guns for life, if we don't know they're terrorists, then they aren't terrorists, how is this such a hard issue for idiots to understand?
>>77493237
>this law passes
>Everyone with a far right view point gets put on the list
>Thug niggers get more guns
>Half of /pol/ is on some sort of list they can't do shit about
>>77499644
The problem is, that the government can take away your 2nd amendment by putting you on the terror watch-list which isn't even decided by a judge afaik.
So, you see, this is a very dodgy subject, and simple "yes" or "no" is not good enough.
>>77497594
We are trying to fix it. Dems blocked Cornyn's proposed legislation that would block watch-listed individuals but still put the whole process through the courts and preserve due process
>>77499483
You can't apply what he later did to his status at the time hebough his firearms. At the time it was the right call
>>77499772
>enemy combatants captured in other countries have the same rights as natural born united states citizens
Fuck off you freedom hating faggot.
>>77499644
>DUDE SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED LMAO
Not an argument.
Banning possible terrorists from owning guns actually benefits the gun owners.
Imagine if the Orlando shooter couldn't buy a gun legally because he was on an FBI watchlist. He would have gotten an illegal gun and shot up the place anyway, EXCEPT Liberals wouldn't be able to blame lack of gun control for the shooting.
>>77493237
Yes of course.
I probably made one of those lists, because of a stupid joke I posted on pol a while back. It was in poor taste, but it was a joke. I wouldn't blame the government for taking my rights away. Taking guns away from potential radical islamists is the BEST thing a country could do to combat terrorism.
>>77499921
>You can't apply what he later did to his status at the time hebough his firearms.
He was a wife beater who openly supported terrorists. If that isn't a reason to take his guns I don't know what is for you gunfags.
>>77499799
A strawman would be me saying that you have a different argument than what you really have that is easier to defeat.
Also mass shootings are rare in the USA. 1.3% of all deaths are related to firearms with 60% of those being suicides.
Most of those gun deaths are nig nogs shooting each other.
> the right of the people
NOT
> the right of every single person
>>77500144
Charges were never filed. People convicted of domestic violence are already blocked from purchasing guns.
>>77500004
>let's take away people's constitutional rights because someone put them on a list
>muh blame game it's the watchlists fault
fuck off trying to blame the watch list thing. If anything, you could blame his first wife that he used to beat.
If she would've had him arrested then he wouldn't have been able to buy a gun for the rest of his life because he would've had a felony domestic violence conviction.
>>77493237
There is no way to get off of the no fly list. And the FBI watching you is universal. They spy on everyone. And these programs have people in congress and stuff on them. You could literally get put on there for ANY reason. After the tea party scandal and many other shady gov things. NO they shouldn't be able to disarm people with NO due process. It's really not that complicated. People just want to take the guns because they themsel'fs don't own guns and don't care about taking away other peoples.
>>77500290
>People convicted of domestic violence are already blocked from purchasing guns.
He legally purchased those guns. The fuck are you talking about?
>>77500144
>He was a wife beater who openly supported terrorists.
THOUGHT CRIME.
Also if the police knew he beat his wife then he would have gone to jail.
>>77500188
>Most of those gun deaths are nig nogs shooting each other.
This. Mass shootings (which isn't even a definitive legal term) aren't a big problem relatively speaking. We get the same amount killed by this recent mass shooting in about half a month in Chicago alone. I get that it's the shock value behind it because 50 people killed at once is ridiculous, but AR-15s are not a problem, handguns are so if you want to go after guns, go after handguns.
>>77493237
Honestly, this is the reason that radical Islam needs to be specifically targeted. First, you can be put on the no-fly list for just about anything i.e forgetting a knife is in your carry on, not knowing liquids are restricted to a certain volume and trying to bring home a souvenir snow-globe, etc. Not all those people are terrorists, just don't know how strict flying can be nowadays. Second, a terrorist watch-list, which I foolhardily believed was just a list of people who have made attempts to engage in anti-American behavior, can also be subjective depending on whose in charge. If supporters of Shillary, BLM, the tumbler elite, and dune coons get their way, everyone with this website in their cookies could be subject to being placed on a terrorist watch-list. Islamist terrorist are the worry, and even though I don't think it would stop them (Boston Marathon bombing was pulled off with pressure cookers), they should be the ones losing civil liberties. I think the problem though is a.) people would rather retreat into their exclusive clubs (lgbt,blm,nra,etc.) and blame others than stand together as Americans and b.) people not realizing that all these shootings and bombings and riots happen in places that have a lesser percentage of gun owners, especially places marked "gun free zone" One armed bouncer could of stopped this, hell, a strapped queer with good aim could of stopped this, but no, they died cowering instead of fighting back.
>>77500359
He wasn't convicted of domestic violence.
>>77500359
He's saying that you could blame his first wife because she never pressed charges.
Had she had him arrested, like she should have, the. He would've been convicted of domestic violence which would've barred him from owning a gun for the rest of his life.
If you want to blame anyone then blame her.
s.age this shit
>>77500359
I'm talking about you need to learn our gun laws before you claim they don't work.
>>77493237
Also I remember when Obama said that Muslims and ISIS aren't an "Existential" threat to our security. Are small mass shootings an "Existential threat"? Fuck no they aren't the left just hates the right and wants to disarm them so they can get their fucking way.
>>77493237
I'm pro-gun and this is common sense. Why would you want a potential terrorist or criminal to own a gun? You think that person is going to fight and die by your side in a hypothetical revolution against tyranny? lol
>b-but they might put an innocent person on the watchlist! it could even be me!
What kind of shady stuff are you doing in the first place?
>captcha now has me solve 3 correct solutions
>the images go away when I click and I have to sift through the new ones too
The better question is why the fuck is captcha so shit? Legacy should be the only captcha.
>>77500772
>What kind of shady stuff are you doing in the first place?
Browsing /pol/.
>>77493237
>>77493237
Yes, but only if they are muslim.
>>77500772
>I'm pro gun but here's an anti gun sentiment you should consider
Fuck off kike.
>>77500772
Your pro gun so they will put you on the list dumbass. The gov is so shady today, they would blanket put everyone on the list and not tell anyone.
>>77493237
Only if we are willing to revise the watch list to protect people from being placed there that don't belong. Currently there is no way to be removed from the list either and who is to know that the list won't be used as a tool against law abiding citizens? We don't and that's an issue.
>>77500920
This guy right here is friend ^^
>>77500772
>common sense
You're not pro-gun, you never were, you may tell yourself and/or others that to maintain some semblance of impartiality, but no actual pro-gun people use the phrase "common sense", just like "compromise" the meaning has been completely corrupted by gungrabbers to mean "what we want".
>>77500978
They can't even revise VA. How are they going to do this?
>>77493237
I'd be OK with banning purchase of guns by known terrorists, but note that this may not be the same things as "people on this or that list."
I also note that one effect of this would be to force the FBI/NSA/ETC to tip their hands that they are onto some terrorist guy, which might be detrimental to the investigation as they try to put together a case and nab associates.
(Said handtipping occurring when Abdul goes into the store and is rejected on his bg check.)
>>77494526
>>77494540
>>77494540
Im more surprised
nobody has brought more attention to this question. What the fuck 4chan.
>>77501010
This man has my approval.
>>77500978
Reminder that Senator John Cornyn already tried to do this, and because the legislation didn't provide any loopholes or backdoors with which Dems could strip Americans of their right without having to defend their action in a court of law, they block it
>>77500772
There is no standard at all for being put on the no-fly list.
Someone who is pissed off at you at work could easily turn you in for terrorist activity. Maybe do a PA on /b/ and have a bunch of people do it. You're on the no-fly list, the ATF is at your door, and you never get a job again.
You really want it to be that easy to ruin someone's life? Imagine every bitch out there who is having a bad day doing this.
We're headed toward some dark fucking waters, senpai. Dark, dark fucking waters.
>>77493237
Considering we're all probably on the list for posting on here, what kind of faggots vote yes?
>>77494692
>>77494540
>>77494540
ALSO TRYING TO BRING ATTENTION TO THIS!
>>77501106
They are just going to go from person to person investigating everyone and then nobody will be able to buy guns. Obama hates conservatives and he will target them like he has already done numerous times.
>>77494692
entirely this.
due process and presumption of innocence until guilt is proven is being eroded by the western Left.
worse to boot: they've got retarded cons and middle-aislers to agree to removing constitutional rights of people innocent of crimes b/c of an arbitrary list.
>>77494526
my argument is similar.
if you can't be trusted with a gun, why should we trust you with voting or doing literally anything else?
>>77493237
Kek, yes is winning.
Good job, burgers. If you ever get into a civil war against the government for freedom, you'll see how this will come bite you in the ass.
Give more power to the government, good goys.
>>77493237
All Muslims should be banned from owning guns, desu.
>>77501249
At least there are people who exist like this man that aren't full retards.
>>77500931
This, tbqh.
Giving them a way to confiscate guns or deny rights, without due process, seems pretty fucking open to abuse.
>>77500920
>if you don't want fags to get married, you're anti-marriage
>if you don't want niggers to fuck white women, you're anti-white
>if you don't want terrorists to buy guns, you're anti-gun
Alt-right logic folks.
>>77493237
>terrorist watch list
>entirely under the control of an unaccountable agency headed by an executive appointee with zero congressional or judicial oversight.
You realize they could easily decide that "wants to buy guns" is a good enough reason to go on the terrorist watch list once they're given the authority to use the list to deny purchase based on that list, right? Sure, MAYBE the supreme court would strike it down, but I'm not willing to bet my freedom on that.
It's a shit idea.
>>77501057
They won't, which is why I voted no.
>>77493237
>http://www.strawpoll.me/10501443
they should be lynched for sedition anyway.
So you believe that this list is malicious and can be used to selective take guns away. I am okay with this, I would rather live in a world more selective about who has a right to own a weapon than a world where loopholes can be found to get weapons to those who wish to spread their hate.
No, that's way too fucking broad and can impact people who are harmless.
Just ban Muslims from owning guns instead. They are people who actually believe that they will be rewarded with plentiful virgins in the afterlife for slaughtering the infidel.
>>77493237
>FBI terrorist watch list
Yes, and if that person is a terrorist why arent they in some sort of due process detainment.
Also Add: If under FBI investigation you can no longer hold any public or private federal office.
>No fly list
No. Unregulated list. Nobody knows who is on it and theres no way to get off it. Half of 4chan is most likely on it.
>>77493237
This whole issue is basically how much you trust the government isn't it? Almost everyone wants to stop the killing.
I guess I'm a bit of a lib tard for thinking that everyone works for their own benefit. It's hard for me to trust an organization that's made up of people that want to keep their jobs, if the president says something they do what he wants.
I'm not against stopping immigration or for banning people from getting guns if they're suspected, it's just that banning random people that FBI sees as a threat just seems like a step in the wrong direction.
In my opinion getting guns shouldn't be easy, you should get tested in many ways, I know it's not infallible but it's at least something. It's better than banning random people under assumptions of some goverenment body that doesn't really need to publicise what those reasons are, if they did that for everyone citizen and kinda shamed them it'd be a different story, it'd be bad in a different way but everyone would be secure.
I can't give real opinions about it though, because in Poland there's almost no guns and crime is pretty low. It just seems to me like another way government has control over people.
Guns are a problem in a way, but because of that lack of guns is a problem too. I guess I'm too stupid to think of a balance, I just don't trust interest groups.
>>77501535
You try to tell other people how they feel? Typical left wing fuck ups.
>>77501249
This I was on it at one time, because I have the same name as some felon n Virginia. Not the same SS#, not the same passport # or anything like that -- I was demonstrably not him, and it took forever to get that sorted out.
And that's leaving aside whether a anti-gun administration might be tempted to put people on some list just to have justification to disarm people with whom they disagree politically.
I'd be less suspicious of that if they include any sort of due process before abrogating a citizen's rights -- and if they refuse to do that, I think it becomes obvious what they are up to.
>>77501329
That would be my concern as well.
>>77501802
Idk. I used to want to stop the violence but now that the muslims are targeting liberals in their gun free zones, I say let them have at it.
>>77501329
How long would that take?
>>77493237
Of course, and the reason republicans blocked this is because the overwhelming majority of people on terrorist watch lists in the US are right-wing, white republican-voting "conservative" lunatics who associate themselves with the "alt right", aka half of /pol/
>>77501535
>straw manning this hard
Fuck off kike
>taking the rights of private American citizens because some G-man monitored his google search history
Fuck that. If you don't have the evidence necessary to revoke someones citizenship, then you cant pick and choose rights to strip from people
>>77501535
Would you be open t the idea that "people the government puts on a list but never charge with anything or do anything else about" might not be the same thing as "people who are terrorists?"
>>77501535
Nobody wants terrorists to buy guns
We just want there to be due process before they decide to ban somebody from guns
>>77493237
I believe that's their plan.
>this many freedom hating votes against due process
Looks like somebody posted the poll on reddit.
>>77501916
They are too fucking stupid to stop flint water from killing all the niggers. They can't do anything never-mind "due process". Obama gave himself a raise a couple of years ago. Congress gave them-self's a raise recently too. So they maintain a shitty gridlock smile in our faces and then sign laws paying them-self's more money? These are the people running the no gun buy lists.....
>>77501916
>and if they refuse to do that, I think it becomes obvious what they are up to.
That's exactly what Dems did
>Let us talk about not letting terrorists have guns!
>Let us talk about not letting terrorists have guns!
>Let us talk about not letting terrorists have guns!
>Legislation put forward that allows the AG to put an emergency 72-hour hold on transfer and present the case to a judge to determine whether the transfer should proceed, and also provides recourse for getting off the list
>Dems straight across the party line shut it down
>>77495334
>>77494660
>>77494258
You wouldn't rather prevent them from getting guns just because maybe a few people are on the list that don't deserve to be? Don't we apply the same ideology to Syrian refugees and muslims in general?
>>77493237
>1.
>Yes
>307 votes (59%)
>2.
>No
>214 votes (41%)
RIP America. What is due process? What is the 2nd amendment?
This is the same godamn method they used to foist the Patriot act and the NSAs domestic spying program on us. You fucking idiots are going to march us into a totalitarian state.
There is no fucking gun crisis. All of the violent crime rates have been going down. What is going up is mental fucking illness because our society is SICK.
We need to provide mental help to these people, not take away the rights of all americans.
I weep for my country. The world is done.
>>77493237
If you do this, the no fly list becomes a "no gun" list instead.
Want to prevent someone from getting a gun? Put them on the no-fly list, which requires no due process.
>>77493237
If they can't get a gun, then they will know they are on the watchlist, then do something even more crazy, all the while knowing they are being watched.
>>77493237
I voted no because that doesn't confront the problem, muslims specifically should not be allowed to own firearms
>>77495267
The alternative is no guns for any citizen. Dumbass.
>>77501675
You are allowed to think that, of course, but maybe be honest and don't say this is about keeping guns away from terrorists, and just be u front that you want the government to be more able to prevent people they disagree with from buying a gun.
Then at least when we argue about it, we're not arguing about something that is not really what you believe.
>>77502115
We'll define the word "Investigate" They are so fucked up all they would do is click on your FB profile and say "Hey we investigated him, put him on the list".
>>77493967
Oh man, I love five iron frenzy
>>77502377
>we
Who's we, you got a turd in your pocket?
Fuck off kike.
>>77493237
YES. that should show up on a background check. that is all. its not about the fucking guns. but no one seems to care that that is the real cause of the problem.
>>77495343
But if you are against it, you are basically pro terrorism.
Can't you figure out fuck-up-proof list?
>Americans voting against the 2nd amendment
wtf is happening here?
please don't ruin America
>>77493237
>Should people on the FBI terrorist watch list and no fly list be banned from owning fire arms?
Yes, why not. Though, you need to have lists in the first place.
Not as it stands today, but once they introduce some due process into the procedure then I don't see why not.
>>77502481
ok thanks
>>77502115
The FBI does a background check for almosy everything. If you want to get into the military? They do an investigation. You want to buy a gun? Background check. So all these different things could be considered "Investigation" So it wouldn't take long to put everyone who wanted a gun to end up on the list. I doubt they would (In this current admin) go after any libtards, because they don't want guns. But Obama doesn't want anyone to own guns anyway, so they will get creative and fuck us over easy and short man.
>>77502626
What the hell is a fuck up proof list?
Even in a criminal trial involving the death penalty we don't avoid fuck ups here.
If you are a criminal you can't buy guns. That is the only system that is fair.
>>77501763
>If under FBI investigation you can no longer hold any public... office
I wish the Republicans would offer that as an amendment, just for keks.
More seriously, I wish they would offer an amendment renaming the "watch lists" in the bill as "The List of People the Government Will Deny Rights Without Due Process."
>>77502466
Wrong
>>77502626
>Can't you figure out fuck-up-proof list?
When it doesn't involve due process? Nope.
>>77502787
Hillary Clinton is a criminal and she is running for POTUS. And many people in the gov are criminals and they run the fucking show. So what is wrong with you asshole?
>>77493237
If you haven't committed a crime and haven't been given due process then fuck no.
Every conservative is on the terrorist watch list.
Remember what the IRS did a few years ago?
Fuck the government and fuck every leftist cunt in this country.
>>77502987
Let their muslims friends jihad their asses foreal.
>>77493949
If we know that they are terrorists then they should be in prison or dead.
>>77502585
No, the majority of this board doesn't want Syrian refugees and muslim immigration because a lot of them are terrorists. A lot of people on the no-fly list are terrorists, so why aren't we banning the sale of guns? Is it some king of integrity thing? Blow it out your ass.
>>77493237
Due Process.
Do you speak it?
>>77493237
Absolutely not. No person should ever be denied their rights except by due process of the law.
>>77493237
>59% of /pol/ doesn't agree with the bill of rights, due process, and want bigger government that labels you based on a whim
I believe it.
>>77493355
>how do we currently allow gun sales to these types of people?
nice straw man
oligarchs on desperation mode, KEK has conquered all
PRAISE KEK
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
>>77493237
If they're not American citizens, then definitely. If they are American citizens, then if they have enough evidence to put them on a list like that then they should have enough evidence to prosecute them. You can't take away constitutional rights without due process.
>>77502325
>Obama gave himslef a raise
The President dos not set his own level of compensation, so that is incorrect
>congress gave them-self's a raise recently
That is also incorrect, whatever the ten-year-old copy-pasta you've seen recently. Congress does not vote on giving itself a raise any more, and has not for many years. Instead, the congressional pay-raise is determined the same way any other government employee gets a raise -- tied to the rate of inflation, and is automatic UNLESS they choose to vote it down, which they have done consistently for the last seven years.
>>77494576
>which means every single person in the country that votes republican will immediately be added to their lists.
which is why you should not use campaign signs, your vote is secret for a reason
keep it that way
>>77503186
Shouldn't surprise anyone. Euro-trash believers love to interject themselves into our politics and rights.
>>77502369
Then it is pretty obvious what they are up to.
>>77493237
I want to say yes, I really do.
But "Innocent until PROVEN guilty", you can not revoke someones rights without first PROVING they have committed a serious crime. Not just suspect them of it.
>>77502369
That 72 hr thing is MUCH more reasonable
I would back that fully
>>77502377
Syrians do not have a constitutional right to come to the US.
Americans DO have a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms.
So there's ONE key difference already...
If you (or the Dems in Congress) are serious about this, put in some due process mechanism -- which so far the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail.
Reminder that the government can already seize your guns without due process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States
>>77493237
Who are these yes voting bootlickers?
>>77502466
That would be one alternative, but for reasons which I assume you already know, it ain't happening. So why bring it up?
>>77493237
The american paradox.
Yes, it's a watchlist, not an action list.
They should be monitored within fully legal intensity to catch illegal circumstance.
What the fuck is the point of the watchlist otherwise?
>>77503166
>halting immigration is the same thing as revoking a United States citizens rights based on the arbitrary criteria of being on a watch list
Fuck off kike.
>>77493237
FUCK NO
NIEEROPTUMUS PRIME can say that everyone in poll is a terrorist and on the no fly list and then none of us can buy guns
>>77503186
/pol/ is not libertarian
You want open borders?
>>77502466
but then criminals would just make their own guns.
>>77504093
>implying refugees could ask for money from a nonexistent gov't
>>77502626
No system can be made foolproof due to the amazing skills of the common fool.
But that said, if this proposal allowed for due-process, I'd be less inclined to oppose it. Since it does not, and since its supporters have killed adding due process to it, I think they have made it pretty obvious that they are not trying to "keep guns out of the hands of terrorists," but rather are trying to establish a means without due process under which they can abrogate the rights of citizens.
that strikes me as a bad idea.
I'm glad I read through this thread before voting.
Initially I would've voted yes.
>>77504309
GUNFAGS BTFO
>>77493237
>what is the second amendment
>what is the fifth amendment
it's unconstitutional, sorry
>>77503444
>campaign signs
I doubt they are going around making notes on the tiny minority that have campaign signs, just on the grounds that this would be too inefficient. They already have donor lists which campaigns are required to file, and since we are already getting polling calls regularly asking us about political stuff, adding a "poll" tot hat mix would go undetected.
Do know if that law goes through, when another shooter happens they will say "LOOK !! It's still easy to have a gun!@!@ lets ban them !@!".
Be it 20 years from now or more, this is what commies do.
Trust me, Brazil is a few years more in the process then you guys.
>>77496914
Because flying on a plane is not an expressly given constitutional right, therefore the no fly list as it applies to flying does not take your rights without due process
Now that guns are invokved, it IS denying your rights witbout due process
And with that precedent, one could see being on the list as a justification to suspend more rights, such as the first amendment or more
>>77493237
according toobummer and the libtards, denying someone on the no fly list, the right to buy an assault rifle, would be discrimination.
>>77500772
The watch list includes people who have not been convicted of any crimes. It is flat out unconstitutional to deprive someone of their constitutional rights without due process. If you want to get them on an unrelated charge, that's fine, but you cannot take someone's guns just because you suspect them of something.
