Omar Mateen was noted to have been a native born American citizen who despite repeated questionings and surveillance by the FBI was still allowed to legally purchase the guns he used for the shooting, so to blame this solely on Islam and Muslim immigrants while ignoring the relatively lax to nonexistent regulations against people with multiple red flags like Mateen being allowed to purchase firearms is disingenuous and will not prevent future incidents.
Also noted was that an armed security guard was in the club shooting back at Mateen and failed to stop him, which disputes the right-wing assertion that arming the citizenry is more effective at preventing gun violence than preventing red flags from getting them in the first place.
Bump for good points
>>77230928
One-post-shill-fuck-off.
>>77230928
>one security guard
>not everyone in the club
nice strawman there libcuck, an ideal society ubiquitously armed
>>77231452
Refute the points, retard. I'm waiting.
>>77231587
Wouldn't 350 people shooting in a tight enclosed area only get more people killed and wounded? Who would know who was a gunman and not a fag defending himself?
>>77231587
Armed like Omar?
>>77231954
Hah, look at this faggot anon who has his HUD turned off.
Active shooters glow red with a chevron above their heads, fiendly shooters glow green, and the unarmed glow blue.
Figuring out who to shoot in a crowded nightclub full of panicking stampeding people is simple.
I can't see why /pol/ would be against common sense gun control
>>77230928
Islam is backwards, it does not adopt ideas from the west
Not our ways of life, our values, our rules it just grows bolder and bolder as it forbids to think like people who are better off than themselves. That's how upside down Islam is, muslims cannot change this from the inside so their horde mentality just grows and grows, every place you visit and i've travelled a lot around this world you see that the muslim community is worse off than their neighbors. So is this the fault of those surrounding christians, hindu's, etc?
No, even Muslim teachers, imams and scholars in the middle east are punishing people in public on TV telling them that to reject everything is dangerous as you drift only further backwards into isolation.
That's the current version of moderate Islam that has taken root.
But you as a shill getting paid $0,02 cents an hour to shitpost leftcuck propaganda on nepalese yeti cataloging forums wouldn't understand.
>native born American citizen
>parents were Afghan natives
Anchor babies aren't native born children.
>>77230928
if those 50 fags had guns omar would have ended up a مصفاة
>>77232222
Probably JIDF shills more concerned about shekels from the arms industry than human lives.
>>77232222
because commons sense gun control in their minds is code for jackboot government thugs stripping their trailers of valuables
Keep your government hands off my medicare!
Oops, I just broke gun control.
>>77232401
>Islam is backwards, it does not adopt ideas from the west
Pretty irrelevant to western law allowing him to buy guns unimpeded despite being "le backwards Muslim".
Explain that one, memer.
>>77230928
How about no?
Reminder to hide and sage shill threads. Do not give them (You)'s. Correct the Record is in full force now.
>>77230928
fuck off retard
>>77232865
>>77232945
>>77232953
>can't refute any points
>"hurr durr how about no retard even though nothing you said is false"
Can tell it's summer
>>77232865
No to what? The radicalized Muslim wasn't stopped from buying a rifle and ammo. You're cool with that?
>>77230928
Mudshits need to be controlled.
>>77233295
Say by limiting their rights to buy weapons?
>>77231452
>1 post by this ID
What a shill you must be :)
>>77232401
>muhammad thinking what they're doing is insane
thats retarded. he was a fucking warlord
>>77233126
All right you smug lefty retarded son of a bitch.
Innocent until proven guilty. Omar sadique al Ahmed Mohammed Omar Mohammed was under investigation multiple times and they never found enough to charge and convict him of anything. Just because some faggots in the government think you're a meanie doodoo head doesn't mean they can just strip you of your natural born Constitutional rights.
Suck a fucking dick, fuck Islam, and finally:
SHALL
>>77231954
>350 people would all be carrying.
2/3rds of people are too cowardly to carry a weapon because "they are scary". The other 2/3rds of the 1/3rd will not carry or forget to carry.
You only need a dozen or so fairly competent people to stop an attack. Gunman assume most of these sheep will be unarmed and they are mostly 100% right in that assumption. That assumption also means that someone carrying will have the opportunity to do something about it.
>>77232945
You sound like the shill desu
>>77233429
By limiting their ability to be citizens. After they become citizens it is far too late.
>>77233536
So it's his natural rights to be able to legally purchase weapons and commit attacks in the name of ISIS?
While innocent people don't have a right to their lives?
Sad to see you're sympathetic to radical Islam and enabling their violence.
You'd think you'd trust the government you elect and empower to vote on and enforce laws enough to prevent these tragedies.
>>77233126
you aren't fooling anyone
>>77233557
Ok, let's say he charged in shooting and out of the initial chaos about 8 people with concealed carry drew their weapon.
They scan the crowd and see someone with a weapon and fire, killing them. Oops, it was another good samaritan and not the guy killing everyone. Oh shit and now that guy got shot by a third good samaritan. Damn. Oh geez, and those two clowns just shot at the real killer but ended up accidentally hitting one of the THOUSANDS of people running around panicking.
>>77233536
All of this happens because some people think keeping red flags like Mateen from being able to get a gun will simply enable the government to ban all guns and confiscate them from everyone.
Okay I will agree to banning muslims from owning firearms. Does that...violate their rights?
Why would one man's ability to make it through the gun regulation despite suspicion mean that more regulation is required, and not that the current regulation is being poorly enforced?
Should he or should he not have under current policy been able to acquire a firearm?
It's almost as if taking a snake and letting it shit a snake out in the barn and letting the barn animals raise it doesn't turn that snake into a horse
>>77230928
I've seen your post multiple times, shill.
>>77233935
>Can't clearly see the difference between an armed club goer and someone in on a mission by god
Jesus Christ. grasp at straws some more you faggot. Not saying it's not possible some idiot would falsely identify their target but it's unlikely and it is an assumed risk that doesn't outweigh the positives.
Such scenarios rarely happen in reality.
>>77233900
You aren't making an argument, just being dumb.
>>77233969
b-b-but shall not be infringed!
STATISTICALLY
IRRELEVANT
>>77233807
>So it's his natural rights to be able to legally purchase weapons and
Yes.
>commit attacks in the name of ISIS?
No, that is not his right.
>While innocent people don't have a right to their lives?
Of course everyone has the right to live. What the fuck are you talking about?
>Sad to see you're sympathetic to radical Islam and enabling their violence.
This is false, nice try.
>You'd think you'd trust the government you elect and empower to vote on and enforce laws enough to prevent these tragedies.
No, I don't trust the government with most shit. Most of it is either incompetent or corrupt.
>>77233951
Some people should read the fucking Constitution again then.
>>77234190
It's almost as if extremism doesn't take into account wether or not the nation you were foisted upon and instead has a long term motive to sew chaos and infiltrare certain governments hmm we should disarm everyone and make gun free zones nation wide, that will stop all terrorism.
See
>>77234023
>>77233935
It would be pretty easy to tell.
Who is dressed like an antisocial asshole.
Generally these mass-shooters have tactical gear on.
You wouldn't mistake a fag for that.
>>77233935
• Don't un-holster your weapon without being ready to fire.
• You're not ready to fire until you see the target, and have confirmed that the area behind them is safe to shoot at.
No one trying to help just pulls out their gun and points around until they find the target.
>>77234229
see
>>77234023
You're a pretty desperate kike to be flailing around in such a foolish manner.
>>77230928
>makes it harder to get guns legally
>just get guns illegally
wow its fucking nothing
>>77234064
Nonargument is a nonargument.
Preventing further criminals from getting weapons isn't invalidated because some criminals already have them.
Retard.
>>77234402
>call someone desperate
>le snake metaphor
Truly desperate.
>>77234151
>it's unlikely that someone in a dark club with ear-crushing house music and thousands of panicked faggots running every which way would falsely identify their target
Yeah, you're retarded.
You don't get a HUD in real life.
>>77234448
It's almost as if terrorists use the long game and work within systems that take self defense abilities from the citizenry and use taqquiya up the the point when they feel it's needed to act. This means we should keep people from having guns entirely and implement gun free zones nationwide to prevent all shootings.
see
>>77234023
>>77234333
But that's how it is portrayed in movies. The deer in the headlights white guy frantically scanning for something to shoot and finally shoots the child that startled him coming around the corner.
>>77234333
>No one trying to help just pulls out their gun and points around until they find the target.
You seem to think most people with guns actually know and practice proper gun safety.
This makes you an idiot.
>>77234513
Truly a kike who has no argument.
see
>>77234023
>>77234309
>No, that is not his right.
It is if you enable him the means to do so. Saying anything else is simply being disingenuous.
>Of course everyone has the right to live
You seem to believe a "right" to own a military grade weapon trumps someone's right to life and safety.
>No, I don't trust the government with most shit. Most of it is either incompetent or corrupt.
Vote for better candidates instead of being a jaded child.
>>77234542
Refer to what other people said. You aren't just scanning for targets like some kind of autistic faggot. In fact you wouldn't want to show your weapon at all until the opportunity arises.
You are a massive faggot.
>You don't get a HUD in real life.
Go back to playing your video games.
>>77234679
see
>>77234574
>>77234023
Not an argument.
>>77234444
>>just get guns illegally
Show me five shooters in the United States who got their assault rifles illegally from some criminal.
I'll wait.
>>77230928
>because a security guard failed to stop a gunman obviously guns are fail
idiot blaming tools
>>77230928
Shiburin a shit
Go hump some dog
>>77234444
Great way of thinking.You know what... if everything is so easy and predetermined we might as well go and shoot up everyone ourselves.I mean it is written in stone that gun control doesn't work.People will get shot so why waste time and not speed up the process,right?
You people are so brainwashed by the gun manufacturers it is unreal.
>>77234574
>"it's almost as if I can't respond so I'll mutter taqquiya even those that applies to shiites and not sunnis"
>>77234629
>le jew meme because no argument
Please stop proving me right so hard, I thought /pol/ had debate skills.
>>77234902
Not an argument. Noted the mental projection of violence as well since you have no self control you'd obviously think the only way to utilize a gun is to go on a shooting.
>>77230928
If a suspected terrornigger is such a threat, why stop at just one amendment? Why can he still vote? Why does he walk free at all? Sure, he might not be able to do "as much" damage with a knife, but what if it was your family member slaughtered because a liberal refused to do something to stop it? Many terrorists have used explosives, available at any Home Depot in the country.
I don't want terrorniggers walking free. Why not just arrest them? Or deport them. They're clearly a threat, otherwise the FBI wouldn't have been investigating them.
Your move, libshit.
>>77230928
>Gun control
>paris
>brussels
>9/11
K.
>>77234621
Most people that go through the process of obtaining their permit usually actually have a gun culture and are safe with their weapons.
Permit holders are some of the most responsible people out there. People that do dumb shit with their weapons generally don't go through the process and again would likely be one of the many unarmed people.
>>77234726
>see a nonargument and a desperate metaphor unrelated to the topic
Really aren't arguments at all, are they?
>>77234906
>see nothing and non-answers
You're not very good at this.
>>77234989
see
>>77234023
Address the point. Letting in someone who is born to islamists who then goes on to become an islamist despite being "american" and being educated in american systems his whole life, who do you blame? His religion or his upbringing or his environment? Answer the question. You can't, because your narrative falls apart once you do.
see
>>77234574
>>77235041
>>9/11
Who was shot on 9/11?
>>77235073
see
>>77235121
You won't address it because you know you can't. Will you get docked if so?
>>77230928
You cant ignore the fact that it's still violent people with violent intent committing the crime. A gun is a tool, and there's so many guns out there now that even if you tried to make anti gun laws we'd just end up like mexico where they're traded and imported in illegally. You only will be creating a market for minorities to start making money off of death, the same minorities doing these shootings.
The problem is the people, not the tool. They'll find other ways to be violent without guns.
>>77235121
>non argument metaphor not rooted in the discussion
I saw it, I tore it apart. Got anything else?
>>77235148
>kike is so upset he's just flinging posts as fast as he can
see
>>77235121
>>77235191
>>77234023
>>77235191
Stop referencing your own posts when they have nothing of substance.
>>77230928
Muricans dindu nuffin
>>77234691
>>77234333
>>77234331
>>77234151
>If I were there with my trusty handgun I'd have instantly found the shooter and popped him right between the eyes from a hundred yards!
Yes, you are all Jason Bourne, handguns are super accurate, it's really easy to figure out who's shooting and how many shooters there are, and there will be plenty of times in a crowded club full of panicked people when you will have a clear shot with nothing innocent behind the shooter.
>>77234000
If his ex wife had pressed domestic abuse charges, he wouldn't have been able to get that gun. Fucking cunt
>>77235227
so, his upbringing and environment have nothing to do with it, and he has no moral agency. Many conclusions can be drawn from this interpretation.
Not an argument. Thanks for playing.
>>77230928
>questionings and surveillance by the FBI
Yes but what qualifies people to be put on the lists? Simply being left or right, saying you hate Obama or Trump? It's a slippery slope that will result in the disarmament of an entire group of people based on BS.
>to blame this solely on Islam and Muslim immigrants while ignoring the relatively lax to nonexistent regulations.
The problem here isn't that he wasn't an immigrant but that he was Muslim. He used his religion to kill 50 Americans, his shitty toxic fundamentalist religion/ideology not his ethnic background.
>Also noted was that an armed security guard was in the club shooting back at Mateen and failed to stop him, which disputes the right-wing assertion that arming the citizenry is more effective at preventing gun violence than preventing red flags from getting them in the first place.
Wow one guy in the back with a little pistol while a bunch of literal faggots run around like a chicken with its head chopped off. I am sure a pistol from yards away will do so much against a guy with an AR 15 that has been tampered to shoot on auto. The club should have had multiple people be armed instead of this one guy.
Try to take my weapons and I promise you a blood bath
>>77234679
>It is if you enable him the means to do so.
What the hell are you on about? Just because you have the means to do something, doesn't mean it is your right. I have the means burn my neighbor's house down, that doesn't mean I have a right to do so.
>Saying anything else is simply being disingenuous.
>you must agree with my argument or you're simply wrong!
>You seem to believe a "right" to own a military grade weapon trumps someone's right to life and safety.
I don't even see the connection. I have a right to life and a right to own guns. They are not mutually exclusive.
>Vote for better candidates instead of being a jaded child.
You realize we don't vote for everyone that works for the government, right? And here comes the ad hominem. Remember when I called you a shill? 5 shekels has been deposited in your account for getting all these (You)s from me.
>>77235241
>can't answer a simple question
>keeps referencing meaningless posts that have long since been dismissed for the nothing they are
Sad.
>>77235268
How about you refer to mine?>>77234281
>>77235268
You're pretty upset you have no argument, I know.
see
>>77235325
>>77235191
>>77235121
>>77234574
>>77234023
>>77234448
Dickhead. Criminals gonna crime, it's what they do.
They move in circles you and I don't have access to, if they want a gun they'll fucking get one.
>>77235220
Let's also forget the fact that while mass shootings are visceral tragedies... they are also statistically insignificant.
Gun violence (violence overall) has dropped dramatically in the last 20+ years while gun ownership is at record numbers.
Wanting rifles and other guns banned is fucking nonsense and always will be. If there is ever an argument based purely on "muh feelings", that would be gun control advocates to a T
>>77235325
His right to purchase guns easily is what caused it.
Otherwise he'd have just been a butthurt NEET like you lacking capability to strike out.
Stop being so disingenuous after fronting so many non-arguments. lol
>>77235279
If you have time to hide in a bathroom and text message your mom telling her you're about to die, you've got time to line up for a proper shot against a gunman breaking through your barricade.
Why to liberals want so many helpless gay men to die? Do you masturbate thinking about them crying helplessly before they're slaughtered?
>>77235001
Libtards don't understand innocent until proven guilty.
If the gubernment thinks you're bad, you have no rights.
They fail to realize that the government can think someone is bad without them actually being bad.
Sure, this guy was bad, ended up shooting people. Until we have evidence however, it would be against principle to stop him from legally purchasing firearms like he did just because he was "off".
Safety is much more valuable in the eyes of libtard, and they will sacrifice as many freedoms that they currently do not make use of to gain any extra inch of safety.
They don't care for their fellow citizens, they are much more concerned for themselves and would rather others suffer so they can be a little less scared.
>>77230928
They were all faggots. It's a miracle he could hit anything with that limp wrist.
>>77235279
Nobody said any of this.
>>77235374
>>77235484
>can't refute an argument
>all his posts are ad hominems and misinterpretations with nothing statistic to back it up
>can't even make a counter argument to the environment creating the mentality that leads to such actions
>instead blames le environment of guns and ebil americun culture for his shooting faggots in the name of allah
It's fun to watch you desperately flail and wish your arguments had legs.
>>77235325
>>77235191
>>77235121
>>77234574
>>77234023
>>77235367
>What the hell are you on about?
>let him buy assault rifle
>scream about islam when he uses it
right wingers, ladies and gentlemen
>>77235397
>being so angry you keep linking posts torn apart for their irrelevancy
I hope you're not shaking as you spam.
>>77234857
>Show me five shooters in a country that assault rifles are legal who got their illegaly from some criminal.
are you fucking kidding me? theres no reason to not buy legally in usa.
>>77234902
>illegal gun trafficking exist, so we should shoot everyone and die
great logic. what are you waiting to kill yourself?
Just sage the shill threads and stop bumping you dumb niggers
>>77235416
How many mass shootings has Australia had since you banned guns.
Exactly.
>>77235641
>all this projection
You're screaming, anon.
>>77235325
>>77235191
>>77235121
>>77234574
>>77234023
>>77235484
>His right to purchase guns easily is what caused it.
A gun is the only way he can kill? Or are liberals now going to openly admit that they do not care about people who are killed with weapons other than a gun? If he had used a knife, or explosives to kill a bunch of gay men why do their lives matter so much less to you?
Libfaggot, I'm wating for my turn getting stroked. Stop evading and get to work spinning your Jewish lies and avoiding answering questions.
>>77235001
>>77235641
Just aim for the brown man chanting "ALLAH AKBAR."
It's not hard!
>>77235592
>>can't refute an argument
Already have.
See every post with my ID. I'm still waiting on you to name mass shooters who illegally obtained their guns from criminals.
You can't?
Thought so. Didn't read the rest of your post since it's copypasta covered in tears now.
>>77232222
Well Mr.Quads it's because they are a slippery slope. Essentially one could set up laws that could be used to prevent anyone from purchasing weapons based on nothing more then race, politics or religion.
Or it could start with more background checks and required mental health exams, but with the latter that could be fucked with so that anyone who leans one way politically or religiously would be denied.
In short there are too many ways for it to be taken advantage of.
>>77235000
>Not an argument.
Does it have to be?It was an insult.
>the only way to utilize a gun is to go on a shooting
Shooting is the primary function of a gun is it not?Before you reply to me again read very carefully what I've written and rethink you reply.The one you are about the write the moment i press the post button.
>>77235787
Not an argument, thanks for admitting you have nothing to back up the viewpoints you present :)
>>77235325
>>77235191
>>77235121
>>77234574
>>77234023
>>77235685
>people killed by guns are the only people we care about
>people killed in other ways aren't important enough to even talk about
Why are liberals universally such terrible people?
>>77230928
ignored, being gay & fag.
>>77230928
>anime is from japan
>japan has some of the strictest gun control in the world
>anime faggot wants more gun control in the US
>>77235494
>If you have time to hide in a bathroom and text message your mom telling her you're about to die, you've got time to line up for a proper shot against a gunman breaking through your barricade.
4chan's /pol/ ladies and gentlemen!
Goodnight everybody!
>>77235148
Exactly. People still died.
Guns aren't the problem. Islam is.
>>77235641
>>let him buy assault rifle
>>scream about islam when he uses it
Now you're just strawmanning and detracting from your original argument because you got rekt. Just stop posting.
If he didn't do anything to break the law and wasn't convicted as such then there was no right to restrict a citizen's 2nd amendment rights.
>>77235643
>are you fucking kidding me? theres no reason to not buy legally in usa.
Thanks for proving my point.
>>77235722
>abloo bloo bloo
You should have tried a better metaphor tbqh
>>77235756
A mass killing with a knife? Calling them "effective" is rather disingenuous.
And now we're pretending he knows how to build and use bombs and get the materials?
The right to bombs isn't protected by the 2nd amendment btw
>>77235865
Glad to see you've conceded by acknowledging you can't respond with anything but spam. lol s-s-shall not be infringed, right?
>>77235876
Why would we talk about other ways when he used one that needs to be talked about?
>>77230928
Bull shiter, Mateen was a security guard.
>>77230928
The gun did not make him massacre those people, the fact that he was possibly a closet homosexual did not make him kill, it was his religious beliefs.
> native born citizen
Gee, its almost like america isnt some magic soil where anyone who's born here gets imbuded with american cultural values! Its almost as if his foreign culture and religion had something to do with this. Its almost as though we should be protecting the american identity and stop the number of muslims in america from getting any larger
>>77236075
>>are you fucking kidding me? theres no reason to not buy legally in usa.
>Thanks for proving my point.
but there would be if guns were made illegal or harder to get, what is what op want.
>>77236000
Seems like guns couldn't prevent 9/11 either. Thanks for agreeing.
>>77236043
Where's the strawman? The people here literally defending the right to buy assault rifles and then bitching when someone uses them for their intended purpose (e.g. killing)?
>>77230928
paris
*sips tea*
>>77235416
>when you commit a crime, or want to commit a crime, your class immediately changes to 'criminal' and new vendors and missions pop up in areas you weren't allowed to go in
criminals aren't all in the same group. some dude who wants to shoot up a club probably doesn't have criminal connections or knows a guy who can get him automatic weapons.
>>77236122
Because other ways are used, and ignoring them makes you see the wrong cause.
If there are Islam murderers using knives and guns, and you choose to talk about guns because the last death was caused by a gun, you're ignoring the main issue.
>>77236075
>literally can't answer the question
Why do only mass killings matter, you disingenuous kike? Thousands of people are killed and you refuse to address any of them unless it meets a specific metric that makes your dick hard?
You lose any moral position about "saving lives" because you refuse to address the victims of crime that do not fit your blatant Jewish agendas.
>>77236286
How many other mass shootings in France have there been?
Versus how many in the United States?
*sips tea*
>>77236043
Wait...an assault rifle??THEY SOLD HIM AN ASSAULT RIFLE!!!!!
>FREEEEEEDOOOOOOMMEEEE!!!
I guess that by freedom Americans mean the freedom to get shot with an assault rifle legally sold and allowed by their own government.
>>77236252
>Seems like guns couldn't prevent 9/11 either
Seems like Superman isn't all that super after all!
>>77236339
Irrelevant. You were proposing gun control, which clearly doesn't work.
>>77236339
How many non-Muslim mass shootings has France had?
>>77236339
I like that you keep ignoring the fact that mass shootings are STATISTICALLY IRRELEVANT
>>77236312
>Because other ways are used, and ignoring them makes you see the wrong cause.
Maybe if you have mental issues and can't understand what a debate is.
>>77236336
We can talk about knife killings in one thread, bombs in another. This topic is specifically about assault rifles and the ease of purchasing them helping cause mass shootings.
I understand you can't adequately refute anything I've said so you can only try to move the goalposts, but that's not how real debate works.
>>77236490
Does in multiple nations. Your example is demonstrably the exception, mine the rule. But thanks for playing.
>>77236252
>Where's the strawman?
When you implied I was blaming that Omar faggot shooting up the fags on Islam in your previous post.
>The people here literally defending the right to buy assault rifles
You mean the right outlined in the most powerful law document of this land?
>and then bitching when someone uses them for their intended purpose (e.g. killing)?
Their intended purpose is not to murder multiple people like it was used in this instance.
>>77236386
>I guess that by freedom Americans mean the freedom to get shot with an assault rifle legally sold and allowed by their own government.
No, just being able to buy them.
>>77236709
Nope. The cultural climate is at fault, not guns.
>>77236658
How many never happened because would-be attackers can't easily get weapons? Exactly.
>>77236685
Maybe to you. Who decides that is irrelevant? A profit-hungry arms industry shill?
>>77236232
You don't get it do you?
By forcing violent criminals into buying illegal guns this means that the probability of them showing on the police radar is far greater.That way they can be caught and prosecuted before they commit the bigger crime.By providing them legally with weapons you are opening the door for them and closing the door for the police.
With the current gun lawns the are no grounds to bring those criminals in before they use their legally obtained weapon for an illegal action.
>>77236709
Good job addressing the issue.
You pose the hypothesis that loose gun control allowed this. We pose the hypothesis that Islam made use of this policy to terrorize the people, and thus gun control is not an issue. Address that.
Yeah, lets make it harder for a woman to get a gun to protect herself from her estranged ex. Make it harder for the widowed grandmother living on the bad side of town to defend herself against neighborhood thugs breaking into her home. Just make it harder for LAW ABIDING citizens to rightfully (and constitutionally) bear arms.
Let's be serious. You do not want regulations, you want control. Well, fuck you faggot. Do some research and see how many times have saves peoples lives.
>>77236872
>How many never happened because would-be attackers can't easily get weapons? Exactly.
Holup
you be sayin
you be sayin Muslims can get weapons easier than non-Muslims???
SHIIIEEET
>>77236714
>You mean the right outlined in the most powerful law document of this land?
The one that says weapons are for government-organized militia to carry?
I don't see it saying "every person can own a military style weapon", I see militia (which is part of the military).
>>77237038
Holy fucking shit. Someone do something about this faggot. I am out of here.
>>77236868
The cultural climate is irrelevant if the attacker can't just walk into walmart and buy an assault rifle, 30 clips and 1000 bullets.
The lack of common sense gun control is at fault.
>>77230928
> despite repeated questionings and surveillance by the FBI was still allowed to legally purchase the guns he used for the shooting, so to blame this solely on Islam and Muslim immigrants while ignoring the relatively lax to nonexistent regulations
This is due to incompetence, the FBI had plenty of evidence he would commit terrorist acts.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/closing-the-terror-gun-loophole-might-not-have-stopped-the-orlando-massacre/486863/
>Mateen was a security guard licensed to carry concealed weapons in Florida, and he passed the necessary background checks to legally buy the guns he used.
>FBI’s Miami field office investigated Mateen for 10 months
> At one point, his colleagues said, he claimed family ties to al-Qaeda.
>Mateen told investigators he made the statements out of anger, and the FBI closed the inquiry.
The man was scouting out locations, training himself, etc. He would have found illegal guns if he couldn't buy them legally. How is this an argument for gun control? Do you think the government would suddenly become more competent because of even more laws and bureaucracy they have to deal with?
>Also noted was that an armed security guard was in the club shooting back at Mateen and failed to stop him, which disputes the right-wing assertion that arming the citizenry is more effective at preventing gun violence than preventing red flags from getting them in the first place.
No it doesn't, that's your interpretation with pre-established beliefs. It could also mean he was poorly trained and was armed mostly as a deterrence.
>>77230928
I have no intention of preventing these incidents.
I have intentions of escalating their prevalence.
>>77237161
>The cultural climate is irrelevant if the attacker can't just walk into walmart and buy an assault rifle, 30 clips and 1000 bullets
It is relevant if the attacker can google how to make bombs, buy knives, sharpen a pipe, use a bow, connect CO2 to the vents, etc.
Gun control is a little deterrent that doesn't deal with the dangerous item.
>>77236930
>Good job addressing the issue.
Thanks, being the OP I think I know what the issue is since I set it.
>and thus gun control is not an issue
If he couldn't have easily gotten a gun, it wouldn't have happened. Any supposition on an alternative attack style is purely that: supposition, and irrelevant. Thanks for playing.
>>77237038
Kek
I'm so glad gun control is the shill topic of the week. It makes me really happy when shills can't even be smug faggots dismissing actual arguments because this is all set in stone and there is absolutely no way around this shit.
>>77237192
>if guns were illegal they could've brought him in, the moment they started monitoring him, on the possession of illegal firearms
>but they couldn't do that since his weapon was legally sold to him
>>77236872
>Who decides that is irrelevant?
The numbers. The gun deaths(I'm even throwing you a bone and going with the total number including suicides and justified homicides) last year were less than 1% of the population. You want to legislate against a large mass of people over LESS THAN ONE PERCENT. You are objectively in the wrong.
>>77237161
>cultural climate is irrelevant
Explain the lack of mass shootings in other countries where people can purchase guns then.
>>77236911
It's not simple as that, this would give money to cartels and make them much more powerful, they already sell drugs on usa and then they would sell all kinds of guns in usa too.
the poor areas would be fucked forever, look at brazil where you can barely have a pistol and criminals that sell drugs have negevs, and anti aircraft machine guns, they even destroyed a police helicopter here in 2011 and everyone inside it died.
Drugs are also illegal in usa and everyone can get it easily. it would be the same with guns.
>>77230928
>Also noted was that an armed security guard was in the club shooting back at Mateen and failed to stop him, which disputes the right-wing assertion that arming the citizenry is more effective at preventing gun violence than preventing red flags from getting them in the first place.
Not really since everyone would be able to carry a gun and the shooter can't shoot everyone at the same time. It is easy to kill an armed person if they have no idea you will attack them.
>>77237365
>If he couldn't have easily gotten a gun, it wouldn't have happened
That argument can go both ways. What makes you say this individual wouldn't have tried something else? You're ignoring his background completely.
It's like claiming he wouldn't have killed all those people if he had only one hand. That's ridiculous.
We know people can and have done mass killings with other weapons. We know non-radicalized Muslims don't usually kill. We know radicalized Muslims do usually kill. Don't ignore that on purpose.
>>77237127
Good riddance.
>>77237356
>supposition, supposition, supposition
That's cute but irrelevant.
>>77237416
Try the breakfast meme pic, it's flashier.
>>77237439
Sorry but even 1% of lives are worth defending. Sorry you don't value the human race even that much.
>>77237463
Why bother? We have issues here to address and unless you're a fucking psychopath proposing death camps or mass expulsions, you have to deal with living with other people. Limiting the capability for violent crime is a legitimate way.
***
Sorry to leave but I'm unironically going to a Clinton rally.
I'll be back though.
Can't wait to see /pol/ when she wins.
Sorry for triggering all the arms industry shills ITT.
>>77237433
Is that some kind of argument? That would take away rights from others, which are natural, god-given rights. All they had to do was not drop him from the terror watch list and then determine through more investigation, such as him scouting out attack locations, that he was going to commit a terrorist act eventually. That's incompetence, not prevented by any laws or lack of laws, considering how much information they had about him.
>>77237784
>Why bother?
gg no re
>>77237784
Emotions are not valid in this debate, only logic.
>>77237784
>>supposition, supposition, supposition
>That's cute but irrelevant.
Your proposition that he wouldn't have killed them without guns is also supposition.
If you allow that argument you allow these.
>Without roads to go there he wouldn't have committed the crime
>Without phones he wouldn't have committed the crime
>Without a certified licence he wouldn't have committed the crime
Without the clothes he was wearing he wouldn't have committed the crime
>>77237784
Also I said LESS THAN ONE PERCENT, I'll have to run the numbers again since it's been a few days since I last did it but it was .01
>>77231954
What is this meme that more people armed would have resulted in more death? Where is the proof? There is plenty of proof about the opposite, an unarmed group of 350 against one gunman equals 49 deaths.
>>77232222
What is common sense gun control?
>>77237804
>That would take away rights from others, which are natural, god-given rights.
>American flag speaking about natural,god-given rights
Btw who decides what are those ''natural and god-given'' rights?Ah or even better give me a list so i can see how many does your government breaks against other nations before they are up for the morning coffe.
Or is it that those ''natural and god-given rights'' simply don't apply to every situation or everyone for that matter?
okay so if we agree that guns are not the problem, and its just a shit ton of bad apples living in usa, how do you fix it?
is there anything wrong with background checks, psychiatrist analysis and mandatory courses prior to purchasing a gun?
>>77230928
o que? muhammad ali morreu? 50 putões de academia morreram? isso só deixa mais oxigẽnio pra mim respirar na terra. me avisa quando a filha da puta da helena morrer, ou quando 50 maçom morrer, daí eu vou ficar aliviado porque tem menos pedófilo filha da puta no planeta.
>>77235787
paris attackers
mumbai attackers
theres two.
>>77238344
total ban and confiscation obviously.
>>77230928
He engaged him, but disengaged after a time to get backup, since he wasn't sure how many people there were, and of course because of weaponry involved. He's armed to deal with similarly armed people. If you want to go after a guy using a rifle with a pistol and no armor be my guest, but he probably didn't feel like committing suicide.
>>77238344
I'm guessing it's profiling people to minimize risk, something I'd agree with but which can be abused if the government feels like fucking its citizens up their ass. Which the US government does all the time.
FBI should've spent less time questioning him and more time deporting him(along with his complicit family)
Call him native born all you like, it just proves that these immigrants are incapable of integrating and need to be rejected outright
Arabs are not welcome here
>>77238431
We already have background checks
Psych evals are completely subjective and we've largely moved away from "may issue" because being arbitrarily denied because the person in charge of it doesn't like you is not something we want
I'd like to go back to learning gun safety in school to be honest
>>77238386
They should apply to all of mankind, but in our country they apply to American citizens. If you want them you should adopt a constitution that protects them and fights for them.
The globalists who start wars and use our money to do so are just as much our enemy as yours, and want to take away our constitutional and civil rights.
>>77231854
>Refute the points
his parents were immigrants
done
There is no correlation between as states gun ownership and it's homocide rate.
When there is evidence guns are actually a problem other than the anecdotal, this can be an argument.
>>77238760
>I'd like to go back to learning gun safety in school
learning how to operate a gun isn't exactly crucial information for being successful in life. if were gonna have goofy electives like that we might as well bring back shit that matters like personal finance and woodshop.
>>77235787
>name mass shooters who illegally obtained their guns from criminals
November 2015, Paris shootings, the attackers used illegal AK-47s and Skorpions they likely obtained from Eastern Europe/Balkans
thanks EU for all those open borders that terrorists use to smuggle weapons
thanks gun control
>>77238935
Correction, AK-74s not 47s
>>77232622
were voting for trump
>>77238903
>learning how to operate a gun isn't exactly crucial information for being successful in life
With more guns than cars in the us I would think so? We teach drivers ed in school and teach kids about sex. Parents also teach kids that the stove is hot. I think there would be a reasonable place for gun safety in schools.
>>77238786
>They should apply to all of mankind, but in our country they apply to American citizens.
I thought that you had the right for privacy?But from what i understand american citizens have no such thing anymore.
>>77234679
>You seem to believe a "right" to own a military grade weapon trumps someone's right to life and safety
defensive gun use is greater than gun deaths, so of course
Last to the thread but I want to bring out some points regarding the guns only.
1.That was a gun free zone. Law abiding citizens can't defend themselves with firearms. I find that people tend to be asshole in the gun free zone, another recent example was the protesters overstepped their boundaries in San Jose.
2.That Omar guy was a security guard. He holds gun for his job.
3.Regarding new (if there will be) gun law. Law abiding citizens will disarm themselves because the law told them to. And those hooligans who want to cause trouble won't. This won't protect good citizens and will only make the matter worse.
It is good for a country to have no firearms easily available for the citizens to reduce crime rate. But taking the guns away from good faith people when guns are everywhere in the country is just retarded.
>>77233935
What are the chances that the 8 good samaritans shoot each other rather than the initial shooter first?
>>77238891
>homocide
kek
>>77231854
>They've changed tactics
>Doesn't refute being a shill
>>77239106
>We teach drivers ed in school and teach kids about sex.
>america teaching kids about sex
Yes i remember you teach them on abstinence?I remember reading in the news about it.Great joke material.
>>77232622
>Memer
>Trying this hard
Oh god how did I miss this thread?
>>77239106
>We teach drivers ed in school and teach kids about sex.
because unlike guns, most people interact with cars on a daily basis. and pretty much everyone wants to have sex all the time in their teens so it makes sense to teach kids about it.
guns are simply not required for people who live in suburban/urban american. Sure, they could have one for self defense but the chances of them actually using the gun outside of taking it to the range is incredibly low.
now, if they had a shooting club that taught the basics of firearms to new memebers? sure, why the hell not.
>>77230928
I don't blame Islam, I blame the government for failing to follow through with its duty to protect the citizens of this Republic. Again.
>>77239602
This. Blame the dog owner, not the rabid dog... only doing what comes natural to it.
>>77238935
>>77239017
While your point is valid, I have to correct you on the weapons that were used. They exclusively used M70AB2 rifles (yugo AKMS). Yugoslavia never made an AK74 type rifle.
>>77231854
You also shouldnt still stray from the fact he is muslim and isis took the blame for his attacks but anyway, The officer was then not trained well enough, and no one else had a gun there so he was able to gat gat down everyone.
Also remember that nigger who held the door shut making so they could not get out?
>>77230928
maybe teach our people not to be soft targets?
>>77230928
>Omar Mateen was noted to have been a native born American citizen
Being born in a different location does not change your DNA or the culture your parents practice and force on you. He was a stupid Arab indoctrinated into Islam from birth. Being born on US land changes literally nothing.
>who despite repeated questionings and surveillance by the FBI was still allowed to legally purchase the guns
No question that the FBI, as well as the CIA, has been unallowed to utilize racial profiling on potential terror suspects for at least fifteen years, thanks to George W Bush. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/17/politics/17CND-PROF.html
Ignoring all clues related to his ethnicity, they had but one co-worker's testimony as legal grounds to ban him from purchasing firearms. In an alternate reality, where he never shot up the club, this would not even hold up as a defense in a human rights court.
>to blame this solely on Islam and Muslim immigrants while ignoring the relatively lax to nonexistent regulations against people with multiple red flags like Mateen being allowed to purchase firearms is disingenuous and will not prevent future incidents
How? If you were to deport every Middle Easterner from the US, this would almost certainly never happen again. All you have to do is look at the racial identity of essentially every other terrorist attack to see this. 9/11, Boston, San Bernadino, Paris, Brussels, and now Orlando would objectively NEVER have happened without third world immigration to first world countries.
>Also noted was that an armed security guard was in the club shooting back at Mateen and failed to stop him
>an
Wow, one armed boucer failed to prevent casualities in a club with more than 300 unarmed people and an active shooter. Color me shocked. I'm sure the exact same thing would have happened had even 1/8 of the patrons been armed.
>>77231954
Or you could try shooting the only one screaming "allahu akbar" like a crazed retard.
Fucking idiot.
>>77233557
Most states with conceal carry laws don't allow carrying into an establishment that makes 51% of its revenue from alcohol sales, and if your state does allow carrying into such an establishment then it most likely wouldn't allow for alcohol to be consumed by anyone carrying.
Does anyone in here actually think that allowing people under the influence of alcohol to carry firearms in public is a good idea?
>>77240954
>Most states with conceal carry laws don't allow carrying into an establishment that makes 51% of its revenue from alcohol sales, and if your state does allow carrying into such an establishment then it most likely wouldn't allow for alcohol to be consumed by anyone carrying.
Why not? Probably not a great idea to get sloshed while carrying. Having a few while packing is no problemo. Before you spout off bullshit you should post some statistics on permit holders accidentally or purposely shooting themselves or others while under the influence of alcohol.
I say this as someone in my early 30's who really has no intention of visiting a bar again outside of being a designated driver, in which case I definitely want to be armed.
So are we ignoring the fact that the gunmen was held in a standoff for 3 hours until police arrived to subdue him? If that other man didn't have a gun, you'd have a lot more dead people.
guns can save lives too
Assault rifles were LITERALLY made to kill multiple people quickly. If you don't believe this you are an absolute fucking retard. If you don't think there should be a check on deadly weapons in the hands of the population, you are absolutely fucking retarded. If you think the founding fathers intended for common man, whom they despised, to be as heavily armed as he is now you are absolutely fucking retarded.
And finally, If you think you would even have any chance against a military takeover of the United States government because you have guns you are the most retarded out of everyone else.
Fucking Goddamn rednecks holy shit.
>>77241570
>If you think the founding fathers intended for common man, whom they despised, to be as heavily armed as he is now you are absolutely fucking retarded.
wew lad. you gotta work on that bait.
>>77241570
>And finally, If you think you would even have any chance against a military takeover of the United States government because you have guns you are the most retarded out of everyone else.
It's not like we've been fighting and losing to ill-prepared 3rd world countries without any assault vehicles and home made explosives for 15 years,right?
>>77232194
>hey wouldn't this thing that has never happened be likely to happen in this hypothetical argument I'm proposing
Fuck right off with that shit faggot.
>>77241570
You're retarded bro.
>>77230928
Why not control guns niggers and muslims?
>>77230928
>>77231854
Wasn't he an armed security guard?
Didn't he have access to firearms through his profession?
Tell me how regulating citizens would have prevented him from getting a firearm.
>>77241570
so much NaCl holy shit
nobody's gonna take our guns away lmao stay cucked
>>77241570
>founding fathers
>hating the common man
fucking disregarded.
>>77241765
Unless police have mechanized suits... there is no way they are making this country a police state without a ton of bloodshed.
>>77230928
Born to muslim Afghani parents. If he had assimilated he wouldn't have radicalized, making him pretty much the same as illegals' anchor babbys waving Mexico flags on American soil
>>77241339
I really don't care about statistics or whatever you think my post meant. I'm a gun-toting conceal-carry Texan. My post's intention was to inform that citizens who carry are held to a higher standard of conduct than those that don't.
When someone exercises their Second Amendment rights and carries a concealed handgun, they take on an extra burden and a significant responsibility to themselves, their family and their community. You carry the means to protect life and to deal out death.
The rules vary from state to state, but the general principle is that you don't fucking drink when carrying.
>>77230928
I do think some gun regulations are definitely needed. Background checks, high restrictions on semi-automatics, some test to determine if you're a nut for new gun owners, and firearms to be stored in locked enclosing of some sort.
But to ban all guns completely would be terrible
>>77237509
Op is obvious a Jewish troll. Brazil is the prime of example of why gun control does not work
>>77242036
>planter class aristocracy
>liking the common man
Nice going retard. You fell for the exact same 200 year old bait that sold you the wealth inequality we're facing today
>>77242207
>the general principle is that you don't fucking drink when carrying.
I agree for the most part. I just don't see a problem with being in establishments that serve alcohol. Doesn't mean you are necessarily drinking.
I honestly don't see an issue with having a couple beers while carrying.
>>77242528
>I honestly don't see an issue with having a couple beers while carrying.
I would agree when it comes to myself, but I would say fuck no when it comes to anyone else. And I don't expect laws to be written for me alone. I have no problem with laws like that.
>>77243029
I find that people who carry are pretty responsible to begin with. They generally aren't going to get sloshed and end up with a negligent discharge or losing their pistol.
That's my impression of everyone I have met that carries. I trust them for the most part. I don't know of any instances right off the bat where someone who was legally carrying a pistol in an establishment that serves alcohol ever had a problem.
>>77230928
Shall not be infringed.
>>77242213
Constitutionally that would be impossible.
>>77230928
> I5nDHKS8
>1 post by this ID
You fell for it again /pol/
>>77243309
My worry is not the people I know that carry, it's the people that I don't know and don't trust. Maybe I'm just more cynical than you.
But on the subject - I actually think it would be a very good idea for bartenders and other people who make their living at places where people get drunk to carry. Possibly make it a requirement for at least a percentage of the staff of places like that.
>this many anti-gun US flags
disgusting.
>>77244758
I am convinced it's trolling mixed with Reddit fags.
>>77232401
You still did not refute the argument.
RETARD
>american flag
>uses ":)" on 4chan
>points out how hes not a shill because he has posts in the thread
>puts "lol" at the end of his sentences
i mean cmon
