Nietzsche defined master morality as the morality of the strong-willed. Nietzsche criticizes the view, which he identifies with contemporary British ideology, that good is everything that is helpful; what is bad is what is harmful. He argues that this view has forgotten the origins of the values, and thus it calls what is useful good on the grounds of habitualness — what is useful has always been defined as good, therefore usefulness is goodness as a value. He continues explaining, that in the prehistoric state, "the value or non-value of an action was derived from its consequences" but ultimately, "There are no moral phenomena at all, only moral interpretations of phenomena." For these strong-willed men, the 'good' is the noble, strong and powerful, while the 'bad' is the weak, cowardly, timid and petty. The essence of master morality is nobility. Other qualities that are often valued in master moralities are open-mindedness, courage, truthfulness, trust and an accurate sense of self-worth. Master morality begins in the 'noble man' with a spontaneous idea of the good, then the idea of bad develops as what is not good. "The noble type of man experiences itself as determining values; it does not need approval; it judges, 'what is harmful to me is harmful in itself'; it knows itself to be that which first accords honour to things; it is value-creating." In this sense, the master morality is the full recognition that oneself is the measure of all things. Insomuch as something is helpful to the strong-willed man it is like what he values in himself; therefore, the strong-willed man values such things as 'good'. Masters are creators of morality; slaves respond to master-morality with their slave-morality.
>>77053570
Unlike master morality which is sentiment, slave morality is literally re-sentiment—revaluing that which the master values. This strays from the valuation of actions based on consequences to the valuation of actions based on "intention". As master morality originates in the strong, slave morality originates in the weak. Because slave morality is a reaction to oppression, it vilifies its oppressors. Slave morality is the inverse of master morality. As such, it is characterized by pessimism and cynicism. Slave morality is created in opposition to what master morality values as 'good'. Slave morality does not aim at exerting one's will by strength but by careful subversion. It does not seek to transcend the masters, but to make them slaves as well. The essence of slave morality is utility: the good is what is most useful for the whole community, not the strong. Nietzsche saw this as a contradiction. Since the powerful are few in number compared to the masses of the weak, the weak gain power by corrupting the strong into believing that the causes of slavery (viz., the will to power) are 'evil', as are the qualities they originally could not choose because of their weakness. By saying humility is voluntary, slave morality avoids admitting that their humility was in the beginning forced upon them by a master. Biblical principles of turning the other cheek, humility, charity, and pity are the result of universalizing the plight of the slave onto all humankind, and thus enslaving the masters as well. "The democratic movement is the heir to Christianity."—the political manifestation of slave morality because of its obsession with freedom and equality.
>>77053695
This struggle between master and slave moralities recurs historically. According to Nietzsche, ancient Greek and Roman societies were grounded in master morality. The Homeric hero is the strong-willed man, and the classical roots of the Iliad and Odyssey exemplified Nietzsche's master morality. He calls the heroes "men of a noble culture", giving a substantive example of master morality. Historically, master morality was defeated as the slave morality of Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire.
The essential struggle between cultures has always been between the Roman (master, strong) and the Judean (slave, weak). Nietzsche condemns the triumph of slave morality in the West, saying that the democratic movement is the "collective degeneration of man". He claimed that the nascent democratic movement of his time was essentially slavish and weak. Weakness conquered strength, slave conquered master, re-sentiment conquered sentiment. This resentment Nietzsche calls "priestly vindictiveness", which is the jealousy of the weak seeking to enslave the strong with itself. Such movements were, to Nietzsche, inspired by "the most intelligent revenge" of the weak. Nietzsche saw democracy and Christianity as the same emasculating impulse which sought to make all equal—to make all slaves.
>>77053763
Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.
-John Derbyshire, Conquest’s Laws
Right-wing philosophies are strong and those who hold them hold Master morality in esteem where those whom hold Left-wing ideologies are weak in their hearts and minds and exist only to degrade the systems which Masters have created and conceived.
In the end the only morality is derived from that which can and does construct civilization -- slaves do not make civilizations.
>>77053922
No one wants to bump my thread?
Shite.
"...the Jews achieved that miracle of inversion of values thanks to which life on earth has for a couple millennia acquired a new and dangerous fascination--their prophets fused 'rich', 'godless', 'evil', 'violent', 'sensual' into one and were the first to coin the word 'world' as a term of infamy. It is this inversion of values (with which is involved the employment of the word for 'poor' as a synonym for 'holy' and 'friend') that the significance of the Jewish people resides: with them there begins the slave revolt in morals"
>>77054284
For an exhibition of slave dogma being refuted turn to Jamie Palmer who says, "heir lives of almost unparalleled opportunity, privilege, and comfort are a source of considerable guilt and anxiety for these people, and so conspiratorial notions of omnipresent oppression have been contrived against which they oblige themselves to struggle. This idea is supported by claims that liberal democracy is a sham, that objectivity is illusory, and that even the Liberal love-child ‘reason’ is elitist. And since all that makes discussion and productive argumentation virtually impossible, debates about ideas, race, gender/sex, and even increasingly economics are transformed into competing professions of woe, decided by whoever turns out to be subject to the greater degree of structural oppression, real or imagined."
>>77053570
>>77053695
>>77053763
>>77053922
>>77054284
No one wants to bump it because it is already known. I would imagine that the majority of /pol/ has already read Nietzsche. You don't start becoming ''far right wing/neo-nazi/alt-right/bigot/racist'' by going on /pol/. You become who you are first, and then visit here.
It's not that it isn't a good topic, or that it does not make sense. It is merely already known and discussed to shreds.
>>77054506
I feel as though this topic isn't known by many of the new users of /pol/ and with the flush of new users thanks to Trump I'm certain of that.
>>77054603
It's not like I have any proof of anything, but I doubt that normies who support Trump suddenly go on the infamous neo-nazi tibetan fur trading forum. Those who does not already know this, know that they should. Those that should know this would have read Nietzsche himself instead of listening to a /pol/ack for it.
With that said, I do have an interest in this topic, but I am not sure how to continue. You haven't made any bold accusations, posed any questions or anything. You just repeated what makes sense.
>>77054861
Usually when I make information threads on a specific topic someone interjects with some accusatory tripe about how it's wrong in one way or another and then the argument sparks discussion.
I assumed that was how this would go but I guess it may too irrefutable a concept for that to occur.
Thanks for bumping.
>>77053570
The important thing Nietzsche was pointing out is the shift from speaking of Good and Bad (master morality) to speaking of Good and Evil (slave morality).
In his day, philosophers took for granted the good/evil dichotomy. They took for granted that christian morality was the schema from which to approach ethics.
Humility, a christian value, is important for a slave's health. For, if he over steps his place- his master will cut him down. Removed from this context- humility no longer has any beneficial properties. Humility quashes ambition, and quells the instinct to celebrate and be proud of one's self. Similarly, other christian values are beneficial for slaves- but not so for free men.
It's also important to note Nietzsche recognized we are have a mix of noble and slave moralities.
>>77055127
Speak of the devil..
>>77055229
Hear hear.
"Beyond Good and Evil," was an excellent exposition into the concept of morality and the decadent tendencies of the Judean slave morality brought by Christian ideology.
With that note, I don't necessarily think the world must be Masters and Slaves since these concepts are morality and not actual ownership or related to possession of objects but values.
If everyone strives for greatness then the slave morality is gone. This won't happen though, because people simply choose what is easier instead of choosing what is Good.
Thanks for bumping.
>>77055257
Just agreement. Still good!
>>77053763
>He claimed that the nascent democratic movement of his time was essentially slavish and weak. Weakness conquered strength, slave conquered master, re-sentiment conquered sentiment. This resentment Nietzsche calls "priestly vindictiveness", which is the jealousy of the weak seeking to enslave the strong with itself. Such movements were, to Nietzsche, inspired by "the most intelligent revenge" of the weak. Nietzsche saw democracy and Christianity as the same emasculating impulse which sought to make all equal—to make all slaves.
>The bible teach us the monarchy is the only legitimate system and Christ will return to expand his kingdom.
Pick one
>>77055737
Well, your post doesn't mean much of anything. So here's some more.
Nietzsche loved Jesus. He didn't have a problem with christian values. He had a problem with christians who lied about having christian values. He noted the only christian died on the cross. Jesus brought/forged his own values and that is what Nietzsche admired.
The christians of Nietsche's day (and the one's now) were hypocrites. They didn't love their neighbors, nor relinquish attachment to material wealth, nor give generously out of desire to do so. On the contrary, they were petty, hate filled liars.
Striving for greatness does not eliminate slave morality. It is completely consistent to have both.
Nietzsche pointed out the differences in master and slave morality as a historian- not to impart judgment on which to prefer- indeed because he thought most people possess a mix of these two value systems.
>>77057439
Did he not say that Christianity makes us weak?
>>77056988
Christianity is weak and the Bible shows it. Nietzsche did not view Christ as a man bound by slave morality because he was his own.
Nietzsche.. maybe not himself, but the direct interpretations of his philosophy are some of the most meaningful and inspiring since the Greeks. Your passage misses my favourite part of slave morality, that it's a justification: if you aren't capable of revenge forgiveness becomes a virtue, if you have nothing to be proud about humility becomes a virtue, etc.
This only recently threw my world view into disorder. I've never felt incapable of revenge, I've simply seen it as futile and petty. Forgiveness, actually letting go of what's eating you about someone, can be powerful but only if it's mutually accepted. This is my problem with forgiving most people I am at odds with, it's not. It's clear I can't expect a mutual level of maturity and my equally immature mutual friend will always take the populist view, that I'm wrong and they're right.
Can't agree with his ideas of democracy (even being disgusted by collectivism), sometimes harder decisions need a hive mind to work on them. I think it was Plato who said democracy is good, provided the people are educated, which makes sense. The slave democracy in your passage comes from the uneducated, or the mentally weak. How you could achieve better is beyond me, I'm tired of dreaming solutions to western problems, complicated solutions to old problems gave even more complicated problems requiring a level of complexity that has wearied me.
It's so hard to give a fuck anymore.
>>77054506
It's sad that threads like this aren't bumped. Nietzsche should be required understanding for all /pol/.
>>77055127
But it's not... Thanks for posting this.
>>77055229
I think it's important we understand that there is never a perfect set of virtues, despite most sets intersecting.
>>77057439
Like my recent realisation that atheism might be more beneficial than the religion I'm trying to craft, I think Nietzsche also saw Christianity as a negative influence, despite both of us loving Jesus.
Finding a real Christian seems impossible.
>>77057952
He thought christianity is nihilistic in that it denies the real world as fake or illusory or temporary and affirms heaven or the afterlife or death as real/eternal.
He thought similar things about Buddhism- that it is life denying. But, with Buddhism the goal is to reduce suffering which was more respectable in Nietzsche's view.
If christianity makes us weak- it's in a spiritual sense. Through the values of christianity we grow to hate our desires- for pleasure. We suppress our appetites. We starve ourselves- of joy, love and pleasure. And in doing so we become miserable, hateful liars (lying to ourselves, and to others about who we are).
