Who /taxationistheft/ here? The libertarian party is the greatest political party I ever heard of, too bad we don't have it in Italy.
>inb4 welfare queen
she paid into SS
>>76839832
Fucking faggot go to America don't fuck our country up with Unrestricted capitalism
>>76839832
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
>>76840169
usa has a lot regulations in the way
>>76840189
>using bible quotes to excuse systematic theft of people's livelihood
disgusting tbqh
>open borders
Discarded. You can't build a libertarian nation by importing people who are not and will never be libertarian.
>>76840908
This
>>76840908
Removal of welfare programs discourages almost all immigration
>>76841183
Is that why america is a nation of immigrants even though it isnt a welfare state?
>>76841183
lol no
>>76841432
Immigration to the US was almost entirely white with a bit of Asian until the 60s when welfare kicked in.
>>76841742
>until the 60s when welfare kicked in.
You mean when Johnson passed a new Immigration Act.
>>76839832
>Muh open borders
Go back to Apefrica
>>76841183
>everyone on Earth is either a hardcore libertarian or unemployed and on welfare
This is why nobody takes you people seriously.
There is flaw, Thocracy is the best, zen buddism taoism or zoroastrianism type stuff.
Man must be made to learn and master the self
![better-in-somalia[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wBleMLC.jpg "better-in-somalia[1].jpg")
>>76839832
>muh taxes
Don't pay your taxes
Go to federal prison
Ass-raped every day
Every homo's dream come true
Be libertarian!
>>76839832
MUH... MUH ROADS
MUH ROOOAAAAADS
>>76841908
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just retarded.
The Johnson Immigration Act limited immigration not expanded it.
>>76842119
>strawman - the post
>>76842419
Not a libertardian but that pic is a blatant false equivalency
>>76841742
>Immigration to the US was almost entirely white with a bit of Asian until the 60s when welfare kicked in.
Except for the millions of Africans the Americans deliberately imported.
>>76842463
>hurricane Katrina destroys publicly owned roads
>not replaced or repaired for two years
>hurricane Katrina destroys privately owned railroads
>repaired in 2 weeks
>>76842542
Explain why.
>>76839832
The only tax that is theft is income tax. Lump Sum or Per Unit taxes on goods bought or sold is legitimate.
>>76842720
>>76839832
>4chan
>/tit/
>>76842729
Anarchy and tribal warfare is not the same thing as libertarianism.
>>76839973
Oh great, I'll just tell the only internet and train companies in my area that because of their mistake, I won't be buying their products anymore. Oh wait. I still need the products they have a monopoly on.
Guess it was Warren Buffet who sat around in a train without air-conditioning for 3 hours last week. No? That was me? Gee golly fucking wiz.
People who worship businesses and business owners are just as cucked in the head as commies
>>76842541
>strawman - the post
There was a time when America was not a welfare state.
Now it is.
How do you think it got to be that way?
Employed people who were not on welfare voted for it.
>>76839832
>ho /taxationistheft/ here? The libertarian party is the greatest political party I ever heard of, too bad we don't have it in Italy.
>>>
Libertardian is fad of day, will fail just like bernie when ppl REALize nobody spouting its bullshit has actually put themselves in most vulnerable's shoes.
Be kind.
>>76842866
Funny how even chimps are more civilized than niggers.
>>76843024
>Ignores massive amounts of government regulation on broadband providers
>Blames business
Yep
>>76843024
Next you'll tell us why health insurance companies are proof positive of capitalism gone wild.
>>76842815
>The only tax that is theft is income tax.
To prevent the abuses of aristocracy, the father of capitalism advocated for a progressive income tax.
It's fair. The government provides more services to the wealthy, they pay a slightly higher rate.
>>76843024
>warren buffet
You mean the cuck who's using big government to shut down the keystone pipeline which would threaten his business interests?
It's definitely big businesses' fault!
>>76843076
The point of my post was, there was immigration before welfare but it was mostly hardworking people and most of them were white and asian, but now we have welfare and now it's south americans who leech off welfare and in Europe it's muslim "refugees" who happen to be fleeing to the states with the best welfare
>>76843620
It should not be the government's job to "provide services" to anyone other than to protect the state and to protect the rights of the people
>>76843620
You mean inheritance tax or wealth tax, not income tax (i.e. a tax on labor). Aristocracy is based on inherited wealth, not income.
Inheritance tax is still theft, the Government is taking something that doesn't belong to them.
Allahu Akbar!
The U.S. must take Monroe Doctrine now.
The U.S. must withdraw American Forces from all Foreign Countries now.
I love American99% and the U.S.
Japan, Germany and China are evil empires.
Allahu Akbar!
>>76843991
The fuck has gotten into you Japan? Since when did you start allowing Muslims?
>>76843662
Thanks for that pic.
Have one of mine.
any Geolibertarians here?
Geolibertarians hold that geographical space and raw natural resources—any assets that qualify as land by economic definition—are rivalrous goods to be considered common property or more accurately unowned, which all individuals share an equal human right to access, not capital wealth to be privatized fully and absolutely. Therefore, landholders must pay compensation according to the rental value decided by the free market, absent any improvements, to the community for the civil right of usufruct (that is, legally recognized exclusive possession with restrictions on property abuse) or otherwise fee simple title with no such restrictions. Ideally, the taxing of a site would be administered only after it has been determined that the privately captured economic rent from the land exceeds the title-holder's equal share of total land value in the jurisdiction. On this proposal, rent is collected not for the mere occupancy or use of land, as neither the community nor the state rightfully owns the commons, but rather as an objectively assessed indemnity due for the legal right to exclude others from that land. Some geolibertarians also support Pigovian taxes on pollution and severance taxes to regulate natural resource depletion, taxes with ancillary positive environmental effects on activities which negatively impact land values.
>>76844241
Geolibertarians generally support redistributing land rent from private landholders to all community members by way of a land value tax, as proposed by Henry George and others before him. As libertarians, geolibertarians desire to see the revenue from land value capture cover only necessary administrative costs and fund only those public services which are essential for a governing body to secure and enforce rights to life, liberty and estate—civic protections which increase the aggregate land rent within the jurisdiction, and thereby serve to finance themselves—the surplus being equally distributed as an unconditional dividend to each citizen. Thus, the value of the land is returned to the residents who produce it, but who by practical necessity and legal privilege have been deprived of equal access, while the poor and disadvantaged benefit from a reliable social safety net unencumbered by bureaucracy or intrusive means-testing.
Some geolibertarians claim the reasoning behind taxing land values likewise justifies a complementary pollution tax for degrading the shared value of the natural commons. The common and inelastic character of the radio wave spectrum (which also falls under "land" as an economic category) is understood to justify the taxation of its exclusive use, as well.[5]
American economist and political philosopher Fred E. Foldvary coined the term geo-libertarianism in a same-titled article appearing in the magazine Land and Liberty.[6][verification needed] In the case of geoanarchism, the most radically decentralized and scrupulously voluntarist form of geolibertarianism, Foldvary theorizes, ground rents would be collected by private agencies and persons would have the opportunity to secede from associated geocommunities—thereby opting out of their protective and legal services—if desired.[7]
Flat tax should be a buy in lump sum not a portion of income. If you can't afford the full package consider only emergency response. Houses should have signs and people should have ID. If you falsely represent documents you'll be jailed until the boat is full then let loose at sea. Rich often use toll roads and take more vacations ending up using less services. Why the fuck should they pay more. Morals are spooks
>>76844241
>>76844456
Stop. No one cares.Just post the fucking link to Wikipedia.
>>76843024
Sure bud
>>76843662
Surr buddy
>>76844227
Broadcast corporations would not have the power they do if the government did not literally pass laws giving certain radio frequencies to certain companies.
They also sue the fuck out of everyone who violates those laws
Yet another case of big government being the cause of the existence of mega corporations.
>>76843024
100 Mbps unlimited costs me $7/month, government hasn't touched the sector
>>76840845
You are disgusting
>>76840335
If you think capitalism is good check out Somalia
>>76844513
fuck off Jung-hoon some one cares
>>76842178
Learn not to be dumb
>>76843662
>The point of my post was, there was immigration before welfare but it was mostly hardworking people and most of them were white and asian
This occurred at a time when (a) the US actively enforced selective immigration policy; (b) communication and technological progress was such that most African, Muslim, and South American populations were not able to leave their immediate regions, assuming they were even aware of opportunities elsewhere; (c) the idea of nationalized charity was so foreign as to be outside the realm of imagination except for a few radical intellectuals; and perhaps most importantly; (d) the world population was an eighth of what it is today.
The cat's out of the bag. There's only one thing that stops this ride and you know it.
>>76842419
Sure buddy your totally not mentally ill
>>76844750
No. No one cares. Literally. No one will read any of that wall of text.
>>76844726
See: >>76843015
>>76842541
Get out troll
>>76839832
Yeah she was such a "libertarian". She hated your shitty political philosophy.
>>76844869
The idea of any charity is a bleeding heart optimist. Provide for yourself or perish
>>76842542
>>76842729
You guys are why no one sees nonlibertarians as human
>>76844726
I don't think we should have open borders anon :)
>>76840169
Go have sex with your dog leaf. You guys made it legal after all.
>>76844495
The funny thing is, gas tax to pay for roads is one of the most fairly distributed costs of any government project.
Use a less efficient truck that tears up the roads more? It uses more gas and therefore pays more in taxes for road maintenance.
People say we need to pay more to upgrade "infrastructure" but what they don't realize is that the reason there are shortfalls in paying for roads is that we have way more roads than there is a demand for like the milexmile square gravel roads in rural areas that only get used 3 times a year by farmer joe, but cost way more to maintain than all the taxes farmer joe pays in a year
t. civil engineering student
>>76844607
>>76844657
>>76844942
>leaf
>>76843620
How do the rich get more service
>>76844928
Did you read it Kim? Do you see the merits in a single tax Georgist system?
You faggots understand that libertarianism is different from anarcho-capitalism right?
>>76844513
No one cares about your opinion not even your family just gtfo
>>76845073
The 2.5 trillion we spend on medicare, medicaid, social security and welfare are just imaginary numbers to these leftists
>muh subsidies of big corporations and big banks!
>>76844241
>>76844456
I don't see how this is substantially different than the current use of property taxes, carbon offsets, etc.
>>76845046
>Use a less efficient truck that tears up the roads more? It uses more gas and therefore pays more in taxes for road maintenance.
Wrong. Higher diesel taxes don't begin to approach the increased wear on pavement from trucks, even taking fuel consumption into account. A fully-loaded 18-wheeler at the 80,000-pound weight limit creates the same wear on asphalt as 900 passenger cars.
>>76842866
>niggers patiently waiting for their turn
francois please
>>76845107
No. I didn't read it. I'm not reading a fucking wall of text to debate someone on the merits of a Georgist tax system on the internet.
That sounds like the fucking gayest thing ever.
>>76844928
You did and so will everyone else. Everyone cares. No one cares about you not even your family
>>76839832
Taxation is payment for services rendered
Existence is non voluntary
Deal with it
>>76840189
This isn't a case for or against a welfare state, only an instruction to follow the authority placed over you so long as it doesn't contradict God's law
>>76844976
Sure buddy ahe totally wasnt. She hated your shitty philisophy
>>76845109
In the same way modern "socialists" are different from communists. See Bernie Sanders.
They won't make any serious distinction.
>>76845199
i wont copy paste anything since it gets Jeong so mad.. its very different this video explains it far better than i can
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VhNGdb-fZE
>>76845271
Deal with being in ultra capitalis
>>76843304
Sure bud
>>76845346
Go fuck your dog faggot. You leafs seem to love it so much.
>>76845396
Now I have to deal with your retard leaf grammar
>>76845354
One is an absolute, the other is a spectrum it's a very important distinction. This is so simple you have to be far below average to not understand it.
>>76845271
Services should be voluntary unless you're a statist faggot. Gb2 safe space. The only services that shouldnt be optional are military and God. I'm God BTW. Thank me for letting you exist.
>>76845431
http://www.wired.com/2013/07/we-need-to-stop-focusing-on-just-cable-companies-and-blame-local-government-for-dismal-broadband-competition/
Just one source. But yet. Stop pretending like you know what you're talking about with shitty one-liners.
>>76845199
80kips/18 wheels is 4400lbs, about the weight of a car.
4kips/wheel for semis is not "900" times 1kip/wheel of cars
Diesel also pays more taxes per gallon (at least in my state), and Semi trucks are MORE efficient in a kg-moved/gallon than cars are.
>>76839832
"For the record, I shall repeat what I have said many times before: I do not join or endorse any political group or movement. More specifically, I disapprove of, disagree with, and have no connection with, the latest aberration of some conservatives, the so-called “hippies of the right,” who attempt to snare the younger or more careless ones of my readers by claiming simultanteously to be followers of my philosophy and advocates of anarchism. Anyone offering such a combination confesses his inability to understand either. Anarchism is the most irrational, anti-intellectual notion ever spun by the concrete-bound, context-dropping, whim-worshiping fringe of the collectivist movement, where it properly belongs."
-Ayn Rand
>>76839832
"In the philosophical battle for a free society, the one crucial connection to be upheld is that between capitalism and reason. The religious conservatives are seeking to tie capitalism to mysticism; the “libertarians” are tying capitalism to the whim-worshipping subjectivism and chaos of anarchy. To cooperate with either group is to betray capitalism, reason, and one’s own future."
-Ayn Rand
>>76845754
>a civil engineering student who doesn't know about ESALs
t. an actual civil engineer
>>76839832
"Above all, do not join the wrong ideological groups or movements, in order to “do something.” By “ideological” (in this context), I mean groups or movements proclaiming some vaguely generalized, undefined (and, usually, contradictory) political goals. (E.g., the Conservative Party, which subordinates reason to faith, and substitutes theocracy for capitalism; or the “libertarian” hippies, who subordinate reason to whims, and substitute anarchism for capitalism.) To join such groups means to reverse the philosophical hierarchy and to sell out fundamental principles for the sake of some superficial political action which is bound to fail. It means that you help the defeat of your ideas and the victory of your enemies."
-Ayn Rand
>>76842720
I am curious, why do so many lines go through Illinois?
>>76839832
Libertarianism is for children.
Ordomiberalism is for men.
Period.
Reminder that the only economic systems which have empirically been shown to work are right-wing statist-communitarian structures. These structures are defined by an ethic of order and hierarchy (which is right wing) but are also pro-labor in effect; neither anti-labor nor anti-capital.
Japanese War Economy, De Gaullist economy, German National Socialism, Henry Clay's American System, German post-war Ordoliberalism, FDR's New Deal, and others are the only economic systems which are proven to result in creating prosperity for the middle class and enabling of population growth.
Free market capitalism takes credit for all of these systems while actually producing none of their effects. These systems are all defined by: heavy state involvement in the investment process, protectionist / dirigist trade models, negotiations between state, business, and labor, intensive infrastructure spending in transportation, energy, etc.
Capitalism is inherently demand-deficient and needs to be coddled and daddied by a state which places long-term interests over short-term ones.
>>76844976
she's spot on in that quote
>>76846039
Wonderful. A well thought out argument, an example of happy people and booming business. Who's behind the slander those movements got?
>>76846140
She had more in common with neoreaction and traditionalism than libertarianism.
The sad thing is that libertarians are the casual take on her philosophy, basically they say "it's too hard" and then cherry pick her non-initiation of force between civilized men ideal and turn it into a religion ("muh non-aggression principle") where anarchy is the only logical conclusion.
Only way for the poor to oppose the rich is to unite and concentrate the efforts
Most efficient way to unite is to make aspecial structure that oversees the organisation of people
Such a structure is basically a government
Since libertarians oppose any kind of such organisation they basically say that poor should not have a way to oppose the rich
>>76846039
>Free market capitalism takes credit for all of these systems while actually producing none of their effects. These systems are all defined by: heavy state involvement in the investment process, protectionist / dirigist trade models, negotiations between state, business, and labor, intensive infrastructure spending in transportation, energy, etc.
What effects?
What state interference?
The US did fine without state interference many years ago.
I don't think any economic system that relies on people behaving themselves purely on their own volition will work in the long term
>>76846639
People shouldn't be allowed to have friends you fucking idiot. Government included. Business and family only. Talking leads to arguing leads to violence. NAP can only be solved by removing the chance of any aggression
>>76846671
Well, the future of the one we have isn't looking too bright either.
>>76845923
Eh, I suppose you're right (I'm not specializing in transportation and haven't taken more than the intro to transportation course)
Still, someone driving a truck pays a lot more per mile in taxes than someone driving a car, which was my original assertion
>>76846802
every time i see a massive pile of shit being posted by a leaf, i tell myself that it can't get anyworse
you guys always prove me wrong
>>76846811
It isn't easy regardless of approach
>>76846019
That are is part of the rust belt.
>>76846967
Pretty much a non country
>>76846943
>Eh, I suppose you're right (I'm not specializing in transportation and haven't taken more than the intro to transportation course)
No harm no foul. What's your concentration?
>Still, someone driving a truck pays a lot more per mile in taxes than someone driving a car, which was my original assertion
They do, it's just not so much more as to offset the wear. Still, pavement maintenance isn't the totality of the average DOT budget.
Personally, I'd rather see us move to a tax structure that is the product of VMT and ESAL. You get your odometer read when you take your vehicle in for inspection and pay your tax all at once (or prorated over the year, or whatever). Trucking companies pay based on mileage and loads, they have to keep track of that anyway.
The problem is that it would put a few truckers out of business, I would bet. It might push more people to rail but I don't know how much more capacity we have for that, the US moves A LOT of goods by rail relative to Europe. I'd hate to see our highways if we used trucks as much as Europeans do.
>>76847295
a non country where i can go to university, look at a female and not get arrested for sexual harassment
>>76847501
>What's your concentration?
Structures
>They do, it's just not so much more as to offset the wear. Still, pavement maintenance isn't the totality of the average DOT budget.
Yeah; at the end of the day I feel much less butthurt about paying taxes for roads (which I actually use) than paying into social security which probably won't even be around when I retire.
> I'd rather see us move to a tax structure that is the product of VMT and ESAL. You get your odometer read when you take your vehicle in for inspection and pay your tax all at once
Won't this have to happen no matter what once electric vehicles start replacing combustion vehicles?
>>76846019
mississipi river
>>76847091
That is the worst sentence I have ever written
Time to kill myself
>>76847954
>Structures
Neat, I took a couple of grad courses in structures to cover electives when I got my bachelors. I have a general civil degree but I do everything from site designs for buildings to actual highway design to urban planning and such.
>Yeah; at the end of the day I feel much less butthurt about paying taxes for roads (which I actually use) than paying into social security which probably won't even be around when I retire.
I'd actually like to see the DOTs turned into self-sustaining entities, kind of like public utilities. That's the idea behind getting rid of the gas tax; you let them collect their own user fees, patrol their own highways, determine their own budgets and plans, etc. Part of the problem in my state is politics; our state gas tax hasn't been increased since I was two years old, and state reps needle the DOT all the time for pet projects they don't have the money to waste on. Throw in the feds meddling in everything and it's no wonder things are shit.
>Won't this have to happen no matter what once electric vehicles start replacing combustion vehicles?
Probably, but hybrids and just overall increases in fuel efficiency are the biggest drivers. Even if electric cars didn't exist the economy standards for new cars are killers.
The other wild card is connected and/or automated vehicles. I keep going to seminars where people talk about these and it's making me wish I'd stuck to structures. Luckily the horizons are all pretty far off so maybe we'll have the collapse before then anyway.
![somalia_libertarian_paradise_postcard-rfe45dc1d57c84a8eae959ad0479b38e4_vg8ny_8byvr_1024[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iVzWm0T.jpg "somalia_libertarian_paradise_postcard-rfe45dc1d57c84a8eae959ad0479b38e4_vg8ny_8byvr_1024[1].jpg")
>>76843803
?It should not be the government's job to "provide services" to anyone other than to protect the state and to protect the rights of the people
You must be thinking of Somalia. Somalia is like that.
Here in America, the liberal founding fathers explicitly gave the federal government enumerated powers to provide a wide range of services directly to the people.
Do you hate the founding fathers or just the Constitution?
>>76839973
I also did. I went from being centrist to extreme anti-welfare when I discovered how easy it was to get free money. Claiming welfare did not help me in any way.
>>76846039
>German National Socialism
>the only economic systems which are proven to result in creating prosperity for the middle class and enabling of population growth
STORMFAGS GET THE FUCK OFF MY BOARD REEEEEEEEE
READ A BOOK
>>76847510
If you're into looking at people yea. I jerk off to sounds when my carnal desires kick in
