i dont understand, pol. which is better?
>privatised healthcare
>public healthcare
>obamacare
>>76838217
Even in places where there's subsidized healthcare, people pay for private because it's better.
It's also immoral to steal money to provide other people with goods and services, so...
>>76838217
free market price transparency deregulated healthcare
>>76838217
>privatised healthcare
poor minorities and obese fucks can't afford it ---> they die natural death ----> clean, healthy race
>>76838383
This.
Education and healthcare should be public and stay like that
>>76838413
this is called natural selection
The individual mandate is the problem.
>>76838217
hahahaha good frog pic dude. I love those. i'm gonna go put that on facebook lmao. le ebin dude
>>76838217
Our system seems to work OK, private if you can afford it, public if you can't. So long as their is thorough scrutiny and a high standard of service in the public or free service.
>>76838439
anything else you want to add to that?
>>76838345
please dont tell me you believe in the "taxation ez theft!" meme.
>>76838701
i agree
>>76838383
this is pretty good
>>76838383
lol, free market libertaritard. kill yourself.
>>76838217
Obamacare is obviously the best since it combines the best parts of private and public healthcare.
>>76838701
Glad you mentioned that is OK. That's what it is. It's very OK.
Heaps of room for improvement.
>>76838726
How isn't coercing someone into giving you money theft?
>>76839226
because the money you get "stolen" from you gets put into roads, hospitals, law enforcement, military, welfare, etc. basically the things supporting your country, improving your overall life and assisting you when you're in need.
while I agree that if we had a more politically acute populace us citizens should be able to choose where our tax dollars go to, at the moment with the things I listed above it is absurd to envision taxation as theft.
>>76838217
Obviously public, if your population doesn't look like this.
>>76838989
good one
surprised you didn't bring up roads yet
>>76839629
That doesn't make it not stolen money. Plenty of my and I assume your tax dollars don't end up helping either of us. Even if they did, it still is theft. It's someone taking YOUR money it doesn't matter what they're doing with it.
>>76839786
You should be condemned to one week of 19th century style coal mining. See how Libertarian you'll be afterwards.
>>76838217
Neither, they'll just take your money and not treat or give you the worst treatment possible. They were trying to make me pay 2k for some fucking stitches that I could've done myself And they got infected.
>we're going to charge you just for walking into the er.
Mother fucking kikes. Fuck those etitled pricks, I'm my own doctor now.
>>76839827
>>76838439
Not if you can't afford it in the long term. And best believe unless you get your birthrates up you wont be able to afford it before long.
>>76839226
its not stolen you ass, it goes to the public good. if you want to live in mad max world, move to fucking somolia your anarcho capitalist heaven.
>>76839950
I'm not saying there shouldn't be taxes. I'm saying that taxes are theft. That's it.
>>76838217
Public healthcare, almost all civilized countries have public healthcare. You have to be a crypto-kike to support privatised healthcare.
>>76839704
is that axl rose?
>>76840014
So I have a choice in whether or not I give it up? If I choose to withhold what happens?
I don't want NO taxes. I'm just saying that they are theft.
>>76840125
they are theft for the good of the country
>>76839871
Don't need to be free(ish) market fixed that and now oil is the primary energy resource as it is more efficient and cost effective. And working on an oil rig pays you very well as hazard pay, wouldn't be against if I had to desu.
>>76838217
Fully and completely privatice healthcare. No state borders, premiums are shared across the whole market.
Make being uninsured illegal. The market will fix itself.
>>76839059
Obama care is an abject failure. I am a health care worker and I see what it has caused
>>76840195
Great. That's fine. Completely agree with you.
So long as we can agree about that.
>>76840021
Before anyone can even begin to steal from you, you need property rights. No such thing as natural property rights, m8. For those, you need a state that can enforce laws. And guess what, that state won't fund itself. You're fucked right in the down under, I'm afraid.
>>76840069
Except if it goes as a side system (Yet you still have to pay Public.)
>>76838217
Public healthcare, but it has too many problems:
>drunks/smokers/fat bastards/other forms of self-harm
>poopdick/other degeneracy infections
>shit ton of red tape
>wholly reliant on government supplying funding (can't trust those bastards to fund anything)
>hypochondriacs
>immigrants who don't pay in, or won't pay in
>jobless bums who expect free gibmedats
>should-have-been-aborted freaks who need constant medical attention
>retards who lack the mental capacity to ever grow as a human being, and as aforementioned, will require constant medical attention despite not being able to contribute to the benefit of...anything
Too many fucking problems...
>>76838217
Private if you can afford it, public if you can't is a good system.
Obamacare was a failure though.
>>76839827
without the governemnt being established and enforcing the law and taxing citizens for hundreds of years and figthing wars to preserve the country you would literally not a fucking job to go to or money to make.
You did nothing to make america, you are just benefiting from it.
Taxes make sure that other people like you can continue to benefit from the country in the future.
>>76838217
obamacare for sure. That guy is hella smart so he built a really clever system, plus he's got the charm to sell it as well, which makes it more desirable than public healthcare.
>>76840300
Does this mean that no-one really owns any property? what exactly does property mean to you?
>>76840429
Agree.
>>76839827
im assuming at least once in your life you've used something funded for by tax dollars, e.g used a fucking road. stop being a libertarian, free market exalting prick and live in the real world for once.
>>76840542
he's not saying that taxes are useless, he's saying that they are theft in the most literal definition
>>76840325
fear mongering.
You probably think they are more of those things you listed than good honest normal people getting appropriate healthcare when needed.
everything you listed is probably less than 5 percent of the population.
>>76840429
without government being established and enforcing law and stealing from citizens for hundreds of years and fighting wars to monotize the country you would literally not a fucking job to go to or money to make.
You did nothing to make America, except your money being stolen for it.
Stealing from your people makes sure that people like you can continue to have money stolen for you for the """""""""""benefit"""""""""" of your country's future.
>>76840196
In a libertarian world, there would be no such thing as hazard pay, so you'd be exempt for it. You're gonna pump that oil for $2 an hour and if you don't like it, you're free to leave for North Korea.
>>76840542
I'm content with taxes existing. A relatively free market is a good thing, agree?
>>76840744
>there would be no such thing has hazard pay
yes there would, it would be the pay difference from working a safe job vs a not safe job.
If there are 2 jobs of similar skill levels and the same pay, but one was more dangerous, everyone would want the safer job. The more dangerous job would have to raise its pay to have people wanting to do it.
It's pretty sad that I'd have to explain this to you
>>76840695
so was the succession from great britain a pointless war? the civil war pointless? how about WW2?
You are a moron of the highest order if you think that america would be anything remotely close to the super power it is today if its government was not as involved as it was.
It's funny because poltards always claim the world is full of useless lazy leeches of society, but then turn around and claim that
WE DUN NEED NO GOVMENT, OUR COUNTRY BE GREAT CUZ WE MURRICANS.
Dumb either way.
>>76840744
I believe the market create environments which would probably reward taking risks. You'd likely get paid more for that sort of job compared to safer ones.
>>76840522
>Does this mean that no-one really owns any property?
Yes.
>what exactly does property mean to you?
It's a legal right, which means I need cops and courts and a big bad government to enjoy that right, otherwise things go back to survival of the fittest.
>>76840918
People will prefer doing the dangerous job for shit pay to starving. No hazard pay necessary.
>>76841039
So the state owns everything?
>>76840125
good. leave to fucking syria cunt, you're using up our infrastructure and fucking space.
I like Canada's system, that might work in the US, however people should be able to buy private healthcare if they don't want the public service.
>>76841324
I enjoy it here. Australia rates quite high on the economic freedom index.
>>76840665
but they arent. you pay taxes, and you get benefits back from your country. its that fucking simple
>>76841291
Yes, but the taxpayer owns the state.
we need a completely free market healthcare system. only free market ingenuity and growth can make healthcare abundant and affordable to the most people.
>>76841291
It's illegal to commit suicide. The state owns your soul.
>>76840998
Yes talk in absolutes to negate what I'm saying, great one.
Taxation is still theft, regardless if its used for the right or wrong thing.
Taxes should be as low as possible without sacrificing the integrity of our national defense, in order to bottleneck the power of our government. Bonds should be incentivized above all else as well.
>>76841525
German understands socialism
Being in the medical field, I would like to see something similar to the German healthcare system: baseline public healthcare with the ability to purchase better, privatized insurance. And considering America's stance on most things, I don't think pure socialized healthcare would work.
>>76841525
>taxpayer owns the state.
It's the other way around m8.
>>76841525
So as soon as I'm born I'm forced to become a stockholder in a huge company the size of a country?
Sounds worse than theft desu senpai sounds like a meme way of saying the state owns me.
>>76841207
Starving? from what? You can survive off McDonalds pay in America without government assistance. You can't support a family off it but you're not suppose to. Learn a fucking job to do that.
Now you're just memeing out since you equate economic freedom to the great depression.
>>76840200
>make being uninsured illegal
Literally serfdom.
>>76841869
is that a picture of the average american?
>>76841650
Again, america would not be half the superpower it is today if taxation was reduced by any significant amount.
Your ideology throughout history would simply not produce the country that you live in and prosper greatly from today.
Basically, the government is stealing 5 dollars from you and giving you back ten.
>>76842153
Didn't America have no income tax until 1913 (outside of Civil War)?
Do you really think that the state handles money so well that you literally get even close to twice your returns on what you're forced to invest into it? The US has an awful credit score and a history of poor money management, especially in recent years.
>>76841674
>>76841778
>>76841849
>>76842554
What do you believe should happen? How should things work?
>>76842153
My ideology created this country
>>76841508
So what you're saying is that basically my legal status is property. I never signed any documents, but I'm property of the state because I was born there, which means I automatically consent to paying its taxes.
I am therefore being raped by the state. I keep saying "no", but it drills into my ass everyday anyway, leaving me a crying, broken mess on the floor.
#AnCap #FreeTheMarketsNow #NobodysSlave
>>76842705
then you'd go to the nearest welfare centre near you
>>76842659
Subsistence (water, shelter, education, medicine, maybe even food and power) should be guaranteed by the public body. Once that is accomplished, you can have all the edgy free market you want, but not a moment sooner.
A lot of the men who built America were here plenty before income taxes were put in place. Rockefeller, Carnegie, Vanderbilt and Morgan all created amazing things before taxes being in place.
>>76842521
It was a ballpark obviously, even if you get back 5.01 it is effectively negated.
The issue here as always is you do not value the country.
From the infrastructure to the free market to the environmental codes to the law enforcement.
You don't value the clean running water, the plumbing/sewage systems waste disposal.
You dont care that the tax system allows for people to (barely) survive on minimum wage, meaning you can go to walgreens for whatever and eat at shitty restaurants and have people scan your items at grocery stores.
At the end of the day you are a spoiled ungrateful brat.
If the government stopped doing what it does for you you would literally revolt or throw your money at them.
>>76842705
Anon, you misunderstand.
You think that the state has to follow your laws. They don't. They, like everyone else, only have to follow the real laws - the ones created by the legislature, not whining on 4chan.
You can make many arguments against taxation, but not legal ones. If taxation was illegal you wouldn't be shitposting on a Nipponese dress-weaving board about it.
>>76843364
That's a lot of assumptions all of which are untrue.
Private insurance is literally just socialism with for-profit parasitism attached. Make it public with optional supplemental private plans. Also have reverse deductibles (insurance pays first x$, you pay the rest) so there's no incentive to milk it and inflate costs.
>>76843646
If they are untrue then you are ignorant of the cost of providing all those things to the general populace.
Keeping this country running and looking pretty cost a boat load of money.
if you dont liek it go and take your money and buy an island and start your own little country and enjoy all the wonderful things on that island.
>>76844284
I'm saying it's untrue that I don't value what taxes create.
Just because I point out that the government doesn't literally turn $5 into $10 that doesn't make me ungrateful.
There is obviously an optimal tax rate (laffer curve) and finding that is difficult.
Mate, I'm not trying to be rude, we're just having a discussion here. Sorry if I'm coming across as ungrateful but I'm really not.
>>76840744
>>76839871
Holy shit you are one of the most innumerate people on 4chan this morning.
I didn't realize it was possible to be this bad at economic reasoning.
privatized healthcare
>>76844707
Whatever helps you sleep at night, bub.
In the end, a deregulated market must be prevented for the good of all of us.
>>76844930
*le tip*
Schools and healthcare should be Private my man
>>76840668
>drunks/smokers/fat bastards
>less than 5% of the population
We aren't living in the same country.
>>76839059
>Made the cost of a basic individual plane sky rocket from $45 a month to $256
>Success
"AFFORDABLE" CARE ACT...WITH AFFORDABLE IN MASSIVE 78PT FONT AIR QUOTES
