What exactly is wrong with socialized healthcare?
I wouldn't mind paying a little more income/property tax if I had the peace of mind that I could afford any medical procedure and medicine I needed.
>>76826631
>be on internet
>seek advice from a 4chan use rather than your search tool to research it
being that stupid, you're not worth the explanation.
Socialism is a mistake.
In our free healthcare system, queues for most non-immediate procedures last for months or even years. Queues are clogged with retired gibsmedat who run to their doctor everytime when they feel a faintest pain in their head, because it's "free".
If they had to pay it with their own money, they would think twice or thrice before wasting anyone's time or money.
>>76826631
It essentially turns all doctors into public servants, which means they don't really have an incentive to give the best possible treatment to their patients, and treat as many patients as possible, because that won't affect their income. And they'll always be inclined to emigrate to a country where doctors are more independent and thus earn a fuckload more money, like the USA.
However, that's the only disadvantage I can think of, and it's great to live in a country with public health well above the average.
>>76827428
Well, that's just because you're generally awful people (except Silesians, they are based).
>>76826631
It works OK in Europe, and to a lesser extent the UK. I just had my appendix out on the NHS, and it was free, as opposed to upwards of $15,000 in the USA. Unfortunately, given the obesity problems the US has (and the 'American Dream', work-for-it mindset), it will probably never work there.
The government is inefficient and corrupt and incompetent.
We need a completely free market healthcare system. Only a free market system can be productive and innovative enough to supply affordable and advanced healthcare to the largest number of people.
Look at Venezuela. They socialized everything, and now Venezuelan citizens have NOTHING.
>>76827428
Yeah we know Poland sucks.
>>76826631
Came here only to steal that raichu image
>>76826631
>What exactly is wrong with socialized healthcare?
It's a shortcut to a government legislating against all forms of harm. Imagine an insurance company with the power to draft statutes prohibiting conduct that increases risk and undermines profit, then apply to a government that ostensibly acts as a state insurer for medical care.
It seems like a great idea, but you are honestly better just paying for it - that way you won't end up with a nanny state desperately trying to reduce costs by banning things that it deems too risky.
Insurers do inevitably crawl into politics and get their way through bribery, etc, so you can end up with the same result, but it is much easier to deal with that in comparison to a government that is doing it for itself.
>>76826631
The problem is basic economics. There are not enough medical professionals to provide high quality treatment for everyone. Thus, some form of rationing is required. The market mediates this rationing through prices, while socialized medicine typically rations through wait times.
You can either allow the market to dictate it through prices, which would also provide financial incentives that would make more people become doctors, nurses, etc and for medical supply companies (pharma, device manufacturers, etc) to invest in bringing new products to market. The downside is that care is rationed by ability to pay, but the upside is rapid innovation that makes all treatments affordable in the long run. Note that the long run isn't of immediate value, but is probably the most important thing for the future health of our species.
Socialized care rations through wait times. It typically treats more people immediately, though the wait times can lead to much worse outcomes for some classes of diseases. because the government is now intimately and inextricably tied to the medical industry, it is setting the prices, often lower than what the market would charge. This leads to less investment in R&D and also to fewer medical professionals.
Realize that pretty much every actually existing country is somewhere between the two extremes. The US has Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA, which each cover more people than most countries national healthcare system. Hell, America's private insurers cover more people than most European countries national systems.
Also, America is not really a free market system, given that we do not let the market set prices. Through the tax code, we favor employers providing insurance over individuals purchasing it or individuals self-insuring. Regulations sharply limit the rates that insurers can charge. Certificate of Needs laws and excessive restrictions on nurse practitioners all serve to restrict supply and thereby drive up prices.
>>76826631
>Pokémon macro image
>these are the children whose votes will decide which Socialist we elect in 2024
>>76827613
>>76828104
Keep pouring those migrants in, krauts.
I can find one issue with it.
It makes people even more dependant on the government like welfare.
>>76828104
>>76827613
Not an argument
>>76828101
Canada's fine.
>>76826631
it doesn't work very well.
>>76828544
>lazytown
Kill yourself
in b4 it's just a meme bro xD
>>76826631
maybe in an all-white country
no way am i paying for laqueefa's 8th cardiac bypass or whatever
>>76827613
>>76828104
germs are so easly triggered when you insult socialism.
>>76826631
Because those who want private healthcare shouldn't have to pay for shitty healthcare.
Though to be fair id rather have socialized healthcare than to be forced at tax gunpoint to purchase private healthcare. obamacare is a shitshow that pleases noone
>>76828509
Oh boy an American talking about economics, this post should be a ton of fun.
>free market is good, government is bad
>this argument was brought to you by Reeses™ Peanut butter cups
There you have it.
>>76828612
>muh immigrants
>>76828707
You'd agree that is an entirely valid argument if you'd ever been to Poland. You can't do anything with these leeches. They're too awful.
>>76826631
Ok, what happens when people start going to the hospital for no reason, as well as the strain of non citizens who don't pay into the system yet reap the benefits of said system, what was once a small tax now becomes 50% of your income, and yet it can't be reversed because the vast voting bloc of people keep voting to increase their benefits that you must pay for, yet because the people who pay are outnumbered by those that don't and you are trapped paying for them? In that situation it makes more sense to stop working when you are only working just to have half your income taken and spent stupidly why work when you can get free shit.
>>76826631
Nothing
>>76827428
That's why you don't make it completely free, but make people pay, say, the first 500 euro's out of pocket.
>>76828940
The guys who I hired to move my furniture last weekend were poles and they worked for 8 hours straight in the florida sun
>>76828960
>non citizens who don't pay into the system yet reap the benefits of said system
That's why you need a national ID.
No ID, no care.
>>76826631
In countries with socialized healthcare the patient is treated like a burden. The waiting list for procedures is sometimes a year. In Canada a cat scan is about 6-8 months out. In England cataract eye surgery is typically a year wait.
Enjoy your marxist medicine where the rich and powerful have zero wait for any procedure they desire.
>>76828011
>obesity problems in USA
>meanwhile UK is only a few percentage points behind
Har har USA BTFOI
>>76828509
The idea that more money makes a system better is meme-tier.
Companies favor assurance of profit over risk. There's money in a slightly improved treatment or medication and uncertainty in anything radical. Moreover the ethos of modern corporations (driven by US culture) is about cost-cutting - drive things down to the cheapest possible means of production and up the end price for consumers. The result is stagnant gluttony, not innovation.
The real research being done is still done through not-for-profit enterprises. Big pharma just wants a cheaper to produce hemorrhoid cream and a means to manufacture it in the Philippines instead of Michigan.
They're not going to be coming up with any miracle cures or innovations any time soon, particularly not with respect to diseases and conditions that net a healthy profit on treatments. Cancer medication is a big spinner, they companies producing drugs like cytoxan aren't going to investigate something that would render their bread winner obsolete.
>>76826631
Your healthcare is only so expensive because your stupid laws make it so that you can sue your doctors for anything. So they have to do dozens of stupid tests because a "malpractice" could fuck them over. Us cuckmans have discussed this over and over again in school WITHOUT the teacher telling us that the laws differ vastly. Ron and Rand Paul, actual doctors have addresses this issue over and over again.
There is no right to health care, I already abused it to get anti-depressants by saying I have no girlfriend and feel sad. Our doctors are like teachers, only 30% truly give a fuck and the rest just does what they like. And if they don't like researching something new, they won't.
>>76828960
>Ok, what happens when people start going to the hospital for no reason
They get examined and sent out. Takes 10 mins max.
>as well as the strain of non citizens who don't pay into the system yet reap the benefits of said system
Not everyone can pay, and you know what? That's fine. Most people can pay, and they will.
>what was once a small tax now becomes 50% of your income
Socialized health care is actually cheaper than private models.
>and yet it can't be reversed because the vast voting bloc of people keep voting to increase their benefits that you must pay for, yet because the people who pay are outnumbered by those that don't and you are trapped paying for them? In that situation it makes more sense to stop working when you are only working just to have half your income taken and spent stupidly why work when you can get free shit.
Woah champ, calm the fuck down, we're talking about health care, not "free shit".
>>76828940
>flag
shoo, shoo, refugee
>>76828509
>There are not enough medical professionals
Then why is there a lottery to enter medical schools?
>>76826631
America could never do it.
>35% Obesity Rate
>80+ million americans out of work
>10+ million illegals leeching off the system
2 years of this and you get no healthcare,
then our cities feel the bern as rioters light them on fire from their mobility scooters.
>>76829290
Anti-government, free market wankers are destroying your country.
>I wouldn't mind paying a little more income/property tax if I had the peace of mind that I could afford any medical procedure and medicine I needed.
That's what health insurance is for. What does government bring to the table that the private market doesn't? History has proven time and time again that broad government handling of economics just brings in inefficiency and corruption. The problems of the US Healthcare system (such as a runaway pharmaceutical RnD industry combined with a pill-happy consumer base, a culture of compensation entitlement and lawsuits, and the statistically-corrosive practices of over-screening and of using pain as a metric) are by no means lessened when the government takes over. instead consumer choice and responsibility has gone down drastically and the price continues to go up.
>>76829193
>The result is stagnant gluttony, not innovation.
cars, cpus, planes all poor quality, zero innovation, right?
>>76829377
go back to school nigger, germany's economic wunder was only possible due the liberal economics of the kohl administration.
>>76829390
>What does government bring to the table that the private market doesn't?
Not making the prices run out of hand.
If left to the free market, doctors charge out of your ass for treatment because you basically don't have a choice: accept their crazy prices or die.
>>76829390
>What does government bring to the table that the private market doesn't?
Generally speaking, a system of healthcare that doesn't come with a 40 page contract with reams of opt-outs, exceptions and other dodgy components designed to weasel the provider out of any treatment they claim to cover that they can get out of.
I've got my issues with socialised medicine, but the pure private system would turn medieval very quickly without public hospitals being there to pick up the slack when johnny big dick has his insurance cancelled because his great grandmother had osteoporosis (but he still needs that surgery).
Private health insurance without strict regulation is like a guy selling you the eiffel tower. Lots of claims about what he can provide, but when you turn up to collect it works out pretty poorly.
>>76829632
There are two reasons for Germany's current economic success
1. low-wage policy creating nigh full employment
2. the nigh-worthless Euro making our export-dependent jobs so secure
Both are quite the opposite of economic liberalism.
>>76826631
>I wouldn't mind paying a little more income/property tax if I had the peace of mind that I could afford any medical procedure and medicine I needed.
so in other words, you immediately recognize that you have an individual preference, which changes when market conditions change...
>What exactly is wrong with socialized healthcare?
...but you are incapable of recognizing that this is a proposition specifically to eliminate individual choices and even pretend there is no market (there will still be a black market)
essentially, what you are, is not worthy of the vote; by even asking this question you belie that you are not capable of making sufficiently-informed decisions which could influence the economy. you don't even have a basic understanding of what "socialized" means if you think that's all that you'll have to do, "pay a little more."
that is why the founders thought a representational government, a constitutional republic, was superior to "democracy" which proles destroy within a generation or two, and superior to "monarchy" which was really nothing more than a mercantilist oligarchy/aristocracy. they were right, you are wrong.
>>76827061
>implying I wouldn't be getting advice from socialist normies
>implying 4chan archives are good
>>76829757
demonstrably false. see: US history, beginning until the creation of the HMO, a legal fiction.
doctors did not go around earning $0 because they asked each patient for more than that patient could afford, and the patient said no. they actually worked for free, in some cases.
>>76826631
>socialized healthcare = mandatory health insurance with large deductibles and increased premiums and tax penalties if you don't comply
>>76829297
because studying medicine is expensive af for the state and they are not willing to afford it
That's why Germany imports tons of doctors every year, draining other countries of their medical infrastructure heh
>>76826631
>I wouldn't mind paying a little more income/property tax
>implying you pay taxes and own property
>>76829632
>cars, cpus, planes all poor quality, zero innovation, right?
Actually, yes. Cars these days are designed to be expensive to maintain pieces of garbage that burn out within a decade of purchase. Wiring looms built down to a price that burn out, plumbing that rots, plastic components that fade quickly and assembly is all done in third world countries.
Your computer is also a piece of shit sold to you for way more than it cost to produce, and it will also die an early death.
These big private companies didn't come up with these 'innovations', most of this shit comes from war time innovation. They just apply their economic theory to the manufacture of the goods: produce a metric tonne of them, use cheap componentry and market the hell out of it so you can charge premium prices.
The people that talk about how innovative and useful big companies are always strike me as never having worked for them...
>>76829867
and also fuck the 17th amendment
>>76829866
what is the current gdp growth ppp and overall gdp growth in germany?
>>76826631
It enables people like this to thrive. We already have so many taking so much more than they contribute that I don't think we have a chance of supporting it. I know it's shitty and unfair sometimes, but our society as a whole would be a lot better off with less government assistance not more.
http://metro.co.uk/2015/01/24/meet-the-woman-whos-too-fat-to-work-refused-nhs-weight-loss-surgery-so-she-can-stay-on-benefits-5035211/
>>76830255
DELET THIS
>>76826631
There should be a system where groups of individuals can pool their payments into a pot that pays for all of their, hopefully, rarely used healthcare in which everyone within each system is equal and can vote not to pay for someone if they agree that that person is trying to rip them off. That way, the government isn't involved, you don't have to go through an insurance company's claim service who's best interest is not fulfilling their contractual obligations to you if they can help it, and you still can shift the cost of healthcare onto the many instead of the few. Shit, assuming everyone in one of these "clubs" lived close together, you could throw in scheduled group exercise to be as preventative with your lifestyles as possible.
Oh wait, that's exactly what the lodge system was, and it was systematically dismantled to allow for the advent of modern day insurance companies.
>>76830037
Why would a doctor ever move to Germany when they can make literally 4x as much in places like the us?
>>76829948
Absolute bullshit.
For starters only super rich people could afford doctors.
Very few middle/lower class people would every receive real medical treatment in their lives - they mostly relied on quacks who ripped them off constantly.
Doctors working for charity were the rare exceptions, not the rule.
>>76830255
47.400 and 3868 billion
>>76830712
Lol what the fuck? How the hell did you get this idea in your head?
Look up the way the lodge system the other anon mentioned worked in the usa and you will see you are wrong.
>>76830037
All higher education is expensive.
The lottery is simply there to prevent getting more doctors than the country needs.
And to claim we don't have enough doctors in Western Europe is just utterly retarded, sorry.
>>76830758
I don't mean raw GDP PPP and National GDP. I said growth.
>>76830865
Americans have a very twisted and romanticized view of history.
Some fantasy novel won't make you right.
Socialized healthcare is great. Donald Trump agrees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6inQmf96SYQ
>>76830898
Almost none, but that doesn't matter. Germany will be the world's greatest country.
>free
>free
>free
>free
40% of income tax for a pyramid scheme system that takes months and month for the most simple of procedures, and the average wait time in the E.R. is 7 hours only because 1/3rd of people just leave after a while. What does this tell you? 1/3 of people abuse the system for "injuries" and "illness" like a common-cold or broken finger that can be treated at home instead of a massively bloated beaurocracy.
>>76830620
I have no idea f.am, but there are tons of east and southern european doctors here. Maybe because it's easier for them to imigrate because of EU regulations and such. There are also plans to make qualified imigration from outside the EU easier (with a so called 'blue card') but, as you said, who would cone to Germany of all places
Also, the amount of imported doctors doesn't even come close to close the gap in demand. The situation is quite dire, especially in rural areas
>>76831002
hmm... but where is the arguments
>>76831051
how
>>76830888
maybe the situation in different in the Netherlands senpai, I just assumed that you'd be in the same situation we are because, frankly, the Netherlands are a joke of a country and should be Anschlussed immediately tbqh
>>76831138
Federalization of Europe
>>76831304
Lol, no mohammed.
>>76826631
What's wrong with doing your business with whom you choose to do it with?
Just get health insurance, you may get special deals for being a non-smoker or not a fat fuck - with socialist healthcare you pay rapefugees and degenerates.
>>76831303
>the Netherlands are a joke of a country and should be Anschlussed
So Germans could finally have a sense of humor?
>>76831428
Says who?
>>76831528
How will Europe becoming a federation fix all of the problems Germany has right now?
Your exports are shrinking and so are the main 5 industries.
>>76831702
The rapefugees will fix it with their superiour and diverse genetics (Schäuble).
>>76830187
>car is from late 90's, best balance of computerization and mechanical simplicity
>cpu/ram/gpu were bought used for 50-80% less than retail and only perform 30% less than equivalent bleeding edge tech
Git gud sempai
>>76831702
>Your exports are shrinking
wat?
>>76830187
>Wiring looms built down to a price that burn out
Why is that even still a thing?
Why don't cars use ethernet yet?
>>76830888
>The lottery is simply there to prevent getting more doctors than the country needs.
lmao, you libcucks actually believe this
>>76832137
Most of the electronics operate at 12vdc and require larger gauge cabling than cat5 has
>>76826631
eu quero mais é que essa merda da helena santos vá tomar no cú dela e que meu pau cresça.
it works ok it LEAF land
you just have wait times sometimes; they let you bleed out for a bit in the emergency room waiting room, builds character.
>>76831998
That's in 2015. My comment is in regards to the current data.
>>76832268
I didn't mean power over Ethernet.
I meant controlling them should be done with a network signal, not a separate wire for each function.
For example:
The turn indicator lights would have both power and network.
They listen to the network to know when to turn on and off.
The great benefit is that both power and network works in series.
So with one power line and one network cable you can control multiple components.
Fairly sure such a system is already common with motorcycles.
>>76831998
>Germans are still falling for the ridiciously inflated US dollar and exchange perfectly good cars for paper
>>76832718
Show me that data then......
>>76833168
They already use bus systems (better suited than ethernet). You still need a lot of wire.
>>76833173
I didn't see a dollar sign?
>>76833299
My bad.
>>76833168
Relays are simpler and more reliable
>>76833335
>Relays reliable in the glorious transistor age
Only if you are aiming for a nuclear war scenario with lots of radiation :^)
>>76833230
My internet is 26kb/s. Loading new pages takes a long time.
In comparison to markets in Australia which are growing Agriculture, Construction, Public Administration, Services etc. Germany is doing poorly.
Netherlands is doing quite well compared to them.
>>76833333
The pound has dropped significantly in value since mid 2014.
>>76833335
Having shitloads of wiring is never reliable.
And more importantly: much harder to diagnose and fix when something does go wrong.
With a networked system you can simply switch out any failed components.
it's interesting how murifags are the ones who should not even try to get in this topic yet are the ones blabbering most.
You shitty faggots leave people to die if they dont have shekels, literally jewest possible, go fuck yourself and die
>>76833566
Having both data and power lines going everywhere is pants on head retarded
Cars stopped needing improvements in the late 90's
>>76833535
>My internet is 26kb/s. Loading new pages takes a long time.
That is the worst excuse for "I was talking out of my ass, I never saw such data" I've ever read - congratulations you are truly an example for all Australian shitposters.
>>76833535
euro*
>>76833744
cool dubs
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/indicators
Taxation is theft.
/thread
>>76833780
I don't deserve them.
>>76827613
The standard reply from any 15 year old when you tell them socialism doesn't work is to bitch that it's because people are so awful.
You misanthropic subhumans have left your stain on history time and again. It's time for you to stop, drop, and guzzle "Syrian" cum.
>>76833572
If it's emergency treatment, hospitals are legally obligated to provide service to individuals who walk into the door, regardless of citizenship or ability to pay. They just provide them with a bill afterwards. Indigents can, of course, just not pay them but for middle class folks it's not so easy.
>>76826631
nobody is owed the service of an other you slave
>>76834154
that doesnt help the least bit, means i have to be almost dead to get some help? sorry, it's a primitive reasoning, i understand money doesnt grow on trees but still
>>76826631
>What exactly is wrong with socialized healthcare?
Central planning NEVER works. There is no magical industry where the laws of economics do not apply.
Literally the only people who describe """"""""""""""free"""""""""""""""" government-run healthcare as good are either legit retards or dishonest, leftist pieces of shit (or a very small minority of good people who got duped through endless propaganda).
Despite being probably the most regulated industry in the entirety United States, our healthcare is better than any other one in the world. Compared to literally every other country, our system (despite how SEVERELY the government has fucked it up) is preferable to shit like the NHS or Canada's system for 90% of Americans. For the other 10%, 99% of those are not some victims of le evil capitalism, but they're the result of their deliberate life choices that put their finances and health in the gutter. For the small number of people who actually do "fall through the cracks" and their predicament isn't the result of them being irresponsible retards, we have a plethora of charities like Shriners and other organizations that will help.
Most of /pol/ has never bothered studying history or economics so their opinions are worthless, but even if you go back through time and examine the development of our healthcare system to where it stands today, it's painfully fucking clear how the state's endless regulating has made things progressively and dramatically worse.
>>76834381
but still what?
Money doesn't grow on trees, you're right.
Is there any examples of economic growth or evidence for why universal/affordable healthcare would create a better economic situation than a privatized one would?
>>76831080
This happens in the US as well, as hospitals are not allowed to turn ANYONE down if they come to the ER. Leafblower-Americans are quite fond of going to the emergency room for the sniffles which means prices skyrocket for everyone as they have to pass on the costs to paying customers, and wait times for (actual) emergencies is quite high.
>>76826631
I received a bill from a doctor for annual blood work. $350.00. I also received a notice that my insurance paid it in full. $35.00. that's what we need to fix. I asked my doctor office if I could just pay direct then $35.00 and they said no. the insurance company negotiated the price. I said I'll negotiate with you and they said no. that's the fucking problem. doctors are in the shit from the start. why couldn't I pay $35.00 and not have to pay the insurance company $50.00 co-pay? because the system is dirty. all politicians, insurance companies, doctors want to enslave us. first we get rid of Obama and all his type. then we start working on the little stuff like this doctor and insurance companies. we start somewhere and clean this thievery up little by little. BTW islam would have been crushed long before we jump the Healthcare monopoly. a great journey starts with one step. TRUMP. if he doesn't work we fire his ass! we can always tear the whole thing down and start over. we have guns and the power!
>>76834835
It's likely because you don't have the leverage to negotiate a price close to that. You as an individual would never be able to compete against the business relationship that insurance companies and medical institutions create.
>>76834469
Actually collective economics such as socialized medicine give you better results. You know this and agree with it when you call it leverage in free market-ese.
Where central planning and healthcare fails is in bureaucracy. There should exist a "destructive" element in government that tears down the deadwood and rot. It is true for instance that when you give government any taxable route it never goes away. Our TV license existed to pay for radio broadcast towers. Now it pays for propaganda tv.
The real issue is that you /could/ replicate government programs by collective action, but it never happens. People are too stupid or need a strong deciding law to act in their own interest. And if you don't pay up in a social system it costs you MORE. The US spends more money on healthcare than socialist countries and your healthcare is worse.
This is because you have the worst of both worlds. You don't group everything to have leverage, and you have a shit ton of costs going to bureaucracy because your legal system and halfassed socialist attempts (medicare and medicaid) plus illegals and non payers ensure your system is a broken piece of shit even compared to ours.
>>76834754
you are not understanding a point. healthcare isnt about economy, it's about human rights, no one should be denied help to get healthy. Also, if you prefer to go to private healthcare nothing stops you from doing so even in place where there is a standard public healthcare
>>76835353
>looks at flag
Not even going with your bullshit, Sven. You're system is objectively shit and your entire welfare state apparatus (healthcare and otherwise) is crumbling your country into dust.
http://libera.fi/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Libera_The-Swedish-model.pdf
>>76835456
When you have healthcare as a """""right""""" you open it up to a lot of exploitation. Millions of overweight people in Australia benefit from this, same for the USA, Britain and many other countries.
If you disregard important issues like the economy you're eventually going to end up with problems. Most health related issues are because people aren't looking after themselves.
Want to not have to go to the doctor/hospital every few months or years? Here is an idea.
Eat healthily and go on a run once a day. That would save thousands of lives and not force people who don't abuse their bodies to pay into a system they don't use as often as others.
Why should people who look after themselves be forced to look after those who choose not to?
>>76835456
>you are not understanding a point. healthcare isnt about economy, it's about human rights, no one should be denied help to get healthy.
Yes they actually should you faggot piece of shit, like you for example. We definitely need to deny you healthcare and anyone else who screeches about "HOW CAN YOU NOT CARE ABOUT THE POOR?!? WHY ARE YOU SO SELFISH AND WANT EVERYONE TO DIE?!?!".
>>76834381
The glories of preventive medicine are largely mythological, unsupported both by studies and statistics. People get sick not because they lack proper medical treatment, but because they have unhealthy lifestyles. And while there are many diseases that are cheaper to cheat when caught early, the horrors of over-diagnosing and false positives are vast and unending.
>>76835747
im not saying it's perfect and wonderful and like paradise on earth, i just say that denying healthcare help to people is closer to being animals than humans.
I understand and totally agree about your point on prevention, but it's not like we can just get rid of/not help people who by choice or by unluck are at a disadvantage.
Obese are of course a cathegory, but then you have people who smoke, people who drink, people who get in car accident...what would you do? not help the one who caused the accident and only the victims?
dunno if im clear
>>76829070
You mean like insurance? They just need to stop fucking over the 1 in 100 people who get fucked over with giant bills in America despite insurance.
>>76835964
go back to the jungle nigger, that's the best place for you
>>76828742
Besides the people who have died or had conditions get a lot worse because they had to wait or jump through a bunch of holes. I started having symptoms and I had my cancer discovered and removed for less than 300 dollars in the span of less than a week. I would call the schedule an appointment and could literally get in the next or same day.
>>76836229
Humans and animals are the same, we're both biochemical machines built for survival. Spending millions to keep people who can't care for their own health alive isn't going to ensure human survival. We've been fine years without it.
People who drink and smoke are leading unhealthy lifestyles will be punished for their lack of foresight. That's not another persons responsibility to fix.
The MAJORITY of people who have health issues are because of their lifestyle. That's their problem, not other peoples.
If someone is a car crash victim then they should have insurance if they're taking risks by driving a car. If they don't then that is a risk they are taking. They need to account for risks that they take.
Regardless those people will be taken in but still charged for whatever cost they created.
>>76836580
we werent exactly fine without it but whatever, if the point is darwin then why dont just remove healthcare and be the fittest to survive
our point of view is very different but no problem, i understand what you mean
>>76837126
Adding healthcare hasn't created anything but a economic burden and stagnant innovation in the medical industry. We don't need it.
Yes. Remove universal/affordable healthcare bullshit.
>>76833988
Yeah, I'm not going to take advice from the 3rd world of the West (also known as USA).
