![low-wage-snapshot-updated-05-07-2015_1[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/uLaxext.png "low-wage-snapshot-updated-05-07-2015_1[1].png")
If minimum wage increases, businesses aren't just going to eat that additional labor cost so they'll pass it on to their customers. Goods and services are now more expensive. Minimum wagers will have gained nothing and everyone else gets to pay higher prices with the same income. How is this not a terrible idea?
>>76690512
>There is a 1:1 ratio between labor costs and price.
You must be a libertarian.
>>76690512
people don't understand economics
>ayy lmao just raise the minimum wage
honestly if you're 36 and working minimum wage you should just kill yourself
>>76690512
It's not that people think it's teenagers. It's that these jobs, whoever staffs them, are intended for teenagers.
And if you increase the minimum wage eithout doing anything about the border or Obama's stand-down on immigration enforcement, then neither teenagers nor your 36 year old will be getting a minimum wage, and the illegals won't either.
I'm in favor of raising the minimum wage, but we should create lower tier minimum wages for people under age 21. This gives employers an incentive to hire young workers, and will help lower the youth unemployment rate.
Of course raising the minimum wage is not very effective if you allow illegal immigrants in your country to live and work under the table, and you sign shitty trade deals that give an incentive to outsource to countries where they can treat workers like shit.
>>76690740
>It's not that people think it's teenagers. It's that these jobs, whoever staffs them, are intended for teenagers.
That's not how economics works. If you want to have an economy where only people who fall within certain ages are permitted to work specific jobs then legislate it. Otherwise be quiet and let the market sort it out.
I'd rather see a minimum income rather than a minimum wage hike, but I'm not opposed to the idea at all.
>working a minimum wage job when you are:
>36
>and have kids
sounds like they deserved it
>>76690512
>56% are women
Wrong.
I work at McDonald's and at my orientation the GM(General Manager) looked me in the eye and he asked me if I wanted to hear something funny, I said sure. He said that over 73% of fast food workers are women over the age of 20.
I'm a 19 year old male.
He told me to get ready for hell with these women.
>>76690922
I'm working two jobs and using McDonald's to help with my education so I can go into Electrician work.
>>76690801
Or how about we just fucking let people make their own decisions about which jobs to take and how much pay to accept.
>who benefits from higher minimum wage
Corporations that now have incentive to spend their money on machines rather than workers.
Libcucks unironically fucking themselves over is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen.
Go ahead and raise the minimum wage you fucking retards. Good look getting a job idiots.
>>76690512
5% of the workforce won't translate to a proportional increase in costs. And no production cost is 100% labour.
>>76690512
It's nothing but a terrible idea except people who can't think want it so panderers will give it to them.
>>76691082
Are you also an open borders faggot? Because that's the best way to create a poor underclass desperate for any job and having no choice but to take some low paying job that won't even cover basic needs.
>>76690730
This is /thread honestly
>who benefits from a higher minimum wage?
people like me, an embedded systems engineer.
>>76690730
This. It really is for teenagers, if you're stuck in minimum wage at 25+ you don't deserve nice things.
We should totally remove the minimum wage that way people can compete with machines, That should get the economy going!
![ted_20130325b[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/NZhhrou.png "ted_20130325b[1].png")
>>76691202
>5%
Quite a bit more than that in the industries where people buy necessities. You don't think if 20% of all wal-mart employees get a 100% raise that won't be a massive increase in expenses?
>>76691201
That's right. Unemployment soared when it was first introduced back in the 1970s. It basically forced Reagan to grant all those illegals amnesty in order to get the price of labor down.
>>76691977
How is it even possible to reach age 25 and still be earning minimum wage. You'd have to put effort into being a fuckup.
why don't we just lower everyones pay so we can all be rich
>>76690700
Only if you pass on the cost to the consumer. God forbid billionaires and executives take a pay cut.
>>76690512
Minimum wage needs to be to raised, because there are hardworking individuals who deserve to be paid better. But how do we make it so that lazy assholes don't get a free ride? Firing them for being slackers would create unemployment and welfare problems.
>>76692450
>How is it even possible to reach age 25 and still be earning minimum wage
have a kid with no family help
>>76692651
$15 is really too much. For instance, in Seattle the living wage is just $12 ($3 higher than the previous minimum wage but still lower than $15.) Seattle has a pretty high cost of living so I assume it is probably much lower elsewhere.
>>76692450
Be unable to continue education do to life problems or maybe being unable to grasp more difficult concepts. Have health problems and be unfit for military service or labor. Have no social skills and be unable to succeed in sales.
There are plenty of ways.
>>76692610
but we've already seen they just raise prices
happened exactly that way in seattle when they raised it
>>76692868
$9.67 is Washington's minimum wage. Good luck finding a job that gives you more then $.10 a year raise.
>>76692900
Yeah but not by $5 dollars. That's the point.
>>76692450
>>76691977
>>76690512
>mfw 18 and already making $11 an hour lifeguarding and swim instructing
honestly ppl making min wage past 30 should kill themselves
>>76690512
>>76690700
>>76690848
>>76691201
Dangit I have that same png qued now I'll have to choose another.
>>76691714
*snort*
>>76692390
>>76692722
>have a kid
So I should pay a higher cost of living just because other people can't be bothered to use a condom.
>>76692873
I don't usually consider myself a social Darwinist, but if you're making every one of those excuses simultaneously (which would be required to justify this), consider me Senator Steven Fucking Armstrong.
>>76690512
Minimum wage need to be raised because companies like Wal-Mart are telling their broke ass employees to get on government assistance and food stamps because their shitty, non-union jobs don't pay enough.
The American tax payer is footing the bill for these companies.
>>76690730
>people don't understand economics
lol, exactly why shits like you continue to support corporate welfare and supplementing shitty wages with tax payer dollars.
>>76692610
>God forbid billionaires and executives take a pay cut.
God forbid people touching literal pictures of food generate any value beyond 7.50/hr.
>>76693244
Well in that case. Do you know if Helium tanks are on sale right now?
>>76693116
they raised prices enough so that their bottom line was completely unaffected by the wage raise
the targets (employers/share holders) completely dodged having to pay a dime
>>76692873
>Be unable to continue education do to life problems
Aww, did the professor say something that hurt your feelings?
>being unable to grasp more difficult concepts
Colleges usually provide services staffed with other students for this very situation
>Have health problems and be unfit for military service or labor
There are other ways to earn a living. If you still can't provide for yourself hop on disability. The very same politicians that push an increase in minimum wage fight to keep government doles alive.
>Have no social skills and be unable to succeed in sales.
Sales people are the lowest form of scum on earth. There are other ways to make money.
>>76693387
Helium is non-replenishable. Just empty a can of Raid in a two-gallon Ziploc.
>>76693598
Being unable to continue education was referring to family turmoil, incurring large amounts of debt, injuries etc.
>>76693695
Fuck you if I am killing myself then I am going to make the world a tiny bit worse on my way out.
>>76690512
Prices aren't adjusted based on wage difference, they are adjusted on operating cost difference. It doesn't matter if a lot of employees get a 25% raise if the change in overall operating cost only rises by 8%. Prices will rise 8%ish which is still a pain in the ass.
>>76690848
>Federal minimum wage
>A dollar in NYC goes as far as a dollar in bumfuck Alabama
I can't wait to see how horribly this goes for small towns/middle America
>>76692873
I dropped out of college, self taught myself Linux and programming, and now make 93k a year base salary. I'm 25.
what's your fucking excuse?
>>76692355
Wal Mart minimum is like 10/hr now with a few raises your first year. With shift differential it wouldn't surprise me if the average wage at Wal Mart is close to 12/hr.
>>76690512
Stupid people think it helps against income equality.
But as you stated: Good and services get more expensive or the jobs to provide those will get outsourced/destroyed. It generally takes businesses up to a year to crunch the numbers, enforce new policies, employ or lay off people, regulate prices, so for a short time minimum wagers will have more money at the expense of the businesses, but the businesses get all that money back.
>>76693813
daddy didn't give me the job
>>76693813
I dropped out of law school, learned how to cook, and now make 100k as a cook at wendy's. That's my excuse.
>>76690512
here the minimum wage has been increased yearly for the last few years and every single fucking time the cost of living goes up with it(actually higher in proportion) so what's the fucking point? no matter what happens the system will just adjust to make sure your remain broke as fuck
also all other wages stay basically the same so the middle class gets especially fucked getting the same wages AND the higher costs
>>76693766
Typical socialist.
>raising minimum wage is just another part of the encouraging single motherhood meme
Holy shit I didn't realize that bernie himself was such a regressive, i thought it was just his supporters.
>>76693888
lmfao that never gets old
>>76690512
How exactly did the creator of this image decide what needed to be bold and red and what didn't?
>>76690512
>>76690700
>Average age: 36
>37% are 40 or older
Wow! 36! Congrats on have the same marketable skills as someone half your age!
>28% have children
Whoop-de-doo! You're still doing a kids job. You're pay is supposed to dictate how many kids you have, not the other way around.
Fuck, I make $43K a year and I don't even feel rich enough to enter the dating scene, let alone spawn some kids.
If you want $15 an hour, the easiest way to do is to just walk into the managers office and demand $15 an hour or else you'll quit.
One of three things will happen here:
1) You get a raise. PROBLEM SOLVED.
2) They call your bluff and deny you the raise, but you're to chickenshit to actually quit. Return to status quo.
3) You actually quit...
That last one sounds bad, but it's really the start of another wonderful journey; getting a better job! All you have to do is send out some resumes, and make sure you inform every potential employer that you're not getting out of bed for anything less than $15 an hour.
>>76690730
the whole point of capitalism is to maximize profit and whatever that destroys so it be. capitalism is against nationalism
>>76690512
I worked on a lot of layoffs, employee issues, and pricing in the legal department of a large company.
You are entirely wrong. Prices seldom change based on your labor costs or your materials cost. Prices are entirely determined by what the market will bear. I.E. In Japan most blu rays cost 6x what they do in the United States. Because that is what the market will pay for it.
The same products all over the world have different prices based on what people in those locations will pay and prices can only rise if the competition also increases them. Keep in mind that the prices are already significantly above the cost to produce so that the products can be sold profitably.
As an example, the company I worked at was releasing a product for the $99 price point. Regardless of the changes in material or labor cost, it was sold at the $99 price point, because that was the space in the line the product needed to occupy and the highest price consumers would pay for that kind of product.
While the idea that the cost will be passed on to consumers is dubious, there is also another problem-- many minimum wage employees cannot afford the goods at the stores they work at. For example, girls at a jewelry store could never afford most of the things in there and their wage is tiny compared to the value of the jewelry.
I'll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmji36q8E4o
>>76694159
>You're pay is supposed to dictate how many kids you have, not the other way around.
>Fuck, I make $43K a year and I don't even feel rich enough to enter the dating scene, let alone spawn some kids.
Minor point: this is why the white race is dying. You think brown people crunch the numbers before they decide to pop out another waste of oxygen?
>>76693314
Nobody working at Wal Mart makes the federal minimum wage. If they need assistance it's because they've single moms that got 4 kids and would need to make 60k a year to lead a decent lifestyle. Invariably they're also GED holders working part time on their associates in hur dessin at the local community college. It is not business's responsibility to absolve you of your shitty life decisions by showering you in cash that you'll blow on newports and getting your nails did. Fuck off.
>>76694159
>2) They call your bluff and deny you the raise, but you're to chickenshit to actually quit. Return to status quo.
A lot of employers will just fire you for asking.
>>76694329
If you care about that then you should care to fight against the welfare state that keeps picking our pockets to pay other people to have children, while preventing us from having our own.
>>76693704
>family turmoil
>someone else needs to pay for my needs when I feel bad
incurring large amounts of debt
>someone else needs to pay for my needs when I do stupid shit to myself
>injuries
This sucks but you can still find a way to make it work. Many others have.
Stop with the fucking excuses already.
>>76690512
Do Liberals think wage increases won't be passed on through price increases?
Do they think CEOs can take the hit too?
Why don't they ever bring up Starbucks' CEO? I heard that people have $1 billion on Starbucks gift cards, more than what some small banks have.
>>76694335
Full time employees shouldn't need to or be able to qualify for any government assistance.
Wal-Mart and the Walton family aren't poor. They pay their employees shit, and suggest they get on public assistance.
Costco doesn't have this problem. Fuck you.
>>76694329
>tfw my taxes fund child benefit subsidies
>>76693771
>I can't wait to see how horribly this goes for small towns/middle America
Small town America here. When the Affordable Healthcare Act passed, several local businesses were forced to close their doors. Now all we have are a couple of big box stores that set prices wherever the fuck they want because lol no competition.
>>76694670
>forced
no they weren't
>>76693819
If minimum wage is increased to $15 that will still cost companies like wal-mart a lot and they aren't just going to absorb it.
>>76690512
Yeah, but you're not accounting for all the extra spending consumers will be doing. Right now businesses are basically choking each other out by paying employees so little. They pay them such a low wage, that they can't readily afford to go out and buy things beyond what they need to live. The idea behind raising the minimum wage, is that it will boost the economy by allowing consumers to spend once again. Theoretically businesses won't need to raise their prices, because they'll be compensated with all the extra spending consumers will be doing.
>>76690512
Or they fire their employees because they aren't worth $15 an hour then hire a company to install robots which after the initial payment (which probably wouldn't even be a $15/h persons yearly wage) run for $0.10 an hour.
>>76693882
>daddy didn't give me the job
>Everyone who makes decent money has a relative that hired them
>>76694283
Maybe you should tell the kikes at debeers to pay their good goys better.
Most minimum wage employees would be able to afford shit If they managed their money better and made better choices early on in life. The minimum wage job is just a symptom of one's failure as an adult and raising that number is not going to turn them into a success.
>>76690512
Thank you ECON101. Come back here after 203.
You don't have the base knowledge, given your shiny examples.
>I don't disagree with you.
It's just not an argument.
> so nothing to argue about.
>>76690842
Damn laying down the law, good post dude.
>>76694484
>worrying about whites being overwhelmed by demographic changes
>posts a picture of an open borders candidate
>>76694159
>If you want $15 an hour, the easiest way to do is to just walk into the managers office and demand $15 an hour or else you'll quit.
Why would you get a raise for just doing the job you originally agreed to do? There are only a few situations that warrant a pay increase:
1. You change jobs or positions
2. Your responsibilities in your current position change
>>76694798
Yea but I'm just saying they've already voluntarily taken most of the hit already. I doubt anyone has noticed an increase in the quality of their service because the increased wages we're not accompanied by increased hiring standards. At some wage you will start to see that shift but 10/hr apparently wasn't enough.
>>76694816
>because they'll be compensated with all the extra spending consumers will be doing
except that doesn't happen at all. wages increase so they just jack up the prices using rising costs as an excuse. the new prices not only make up for the wage increase but go even further all in the name of profit. the end result is the wage increase that was supposed to help people only makes shit worse for them while executives and shareholders fill their greedy pockets
>>76690512
Instead of trying to artificially increase the value of labor, why not increase it naturally by bringing industrial jobs to the USA?
>>76695070
Liar.
"It should be easier for a potential immigrant to get a work visa.
Streamline the legal immigration process to reduce illegal immigration and allow the U.S. to know who enters the country and for what reasons.
Enforce a 'one strike, you're out' rule for immigrants who circumvent the streamlined work visa process.
Impose and enforce sanctions on employers for noncompliance with immigration laws."
Far from open borders.
>>76691068
cool blog
>>76694727
>Up prices
>Die out
>Close doors
Or
>Give everyone 29.5 hours per week
>Everyone is fatigued from two jobs
>No one is any good that either job
>Tank
>Close doors
Or
>Just see it coming and close doors whilst trying to find your guys jobs amongst your contacts instead of wasting their time on your very suddenly leaky boat.
You close up, or you downsize under the radar. There is no alternative. It puts a thick fucking ceiling on small business.
>>76694727
Hey look, it's another "businesses dealing with onerous government regulation is just the free market at work" faggot.
No, of course business owners aren't "forced" to close, I mean, why don't they just reach in their bottomless money pit and operate everything at a loss for charitable purposes? Everyone knows that anyone who owns a business is filthy rich, after all.
>>76694727
Yes they were. They were fairly new businesses that were just starting to turn a profit. The new costs would have put them into the red. The proprietors said fuck it.
Why not raise it to 50 dollars?
Why not 100?
>>76694631
You are clearly retarded. There are people with so many fucking chilluns they would qualify for some programs even if they made large sums of money. The lowest wage earners are never going to lead a middle class lifestyle no matter how hard you want that to be the case.
>>76690512
It helps destroy the private sector while simultaneously inflating the government.
Can you feel the bern of the communist "political revolution" comrade, or will we need to send you to the gulag to be re-educated?
>>76694317
>what happens if the 1% leave?
>well there's always going to be a 1%
Can't argue with that!
>>76695513
I feel you dude. I was once working as a cook at another Wendy's location and they had to close down because of Obongocare. Fortunately I knew a guy who could get a me a better gig at an even better franchise.
>>76695371
>make it easier to get work visas
>make it easier to immigrate legally
>not open borders
It doesn't matter if they come here legally or not, we're still marching off the cliff either way.
>>76695428
>>76695488
>>76695513
you misconstrue what force actually means
>>76692450
Fuck you. Jesus was a carpenter.
Then Jesus stole my job as a carpenter.
You have no idea what it's like to do anything, so you can't understand. I spent a decade buying tools and learning building code.
I have to pay insurance.
I have to be bonded.
I pay self employment level taxes, to do a few remodels a year.
Sorry you can see the future. I put many years into developing a skill. Taco Niggers flood the country and devalue my work. Specifically, because they don't have to have the liability and accountability of any person who legally performs their work.
MAGA my wall just got ten feet higher.
>>76695670
Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, if I put a gun to your head and tell you to suck a cock or I'll kill you, and you suck a cock, it's not like you were "forced" to do it. Yay for maintaining the illusion of free will!
Why isnt everything just free and we all work just because we get free shit?
Sure. Everyone will go for a lot of stuff the first days but once the novelty dies out, everyone will be normal and not have to worry about anything ever again.
>>76695586
Yeah if that were true. Except when a trillion dollars up and disappears from the economy because the big hitters pack their bags and more their cash elsewhere that's going to seriously fuck the entire economy up.
>>76690512
>This is what republicans believe
It hurts desu
Active labor force actually doesn't see much of an impact from a minimum wage hike, the unemployment changes because it reduces discouraged workers so you have more labor participation. The only demographic really hit by it are under 16, and no one gives a shit about them.
Looking at shit like uber, which created an infrastructure to tap into a flexible labor force is really an innovation that was driven out of the need to bypass shit like minimum wage. If you seriously think a minimum wage hike can interrupt free market dynamics you are dumber than the socialists you hate on, see all the revenue streams that arise out of avoiding base salary: youtube, etsy, twitch streamers, even fucking camgirls.
>>76695564
>The lowest wage earners are never going to lead a middle class lifestyle no matter how hard you want that to be the case.
but they can't earn a living wage after working full time for a profitable rich national company?
>>76693314
Found the Bernout
>>76695943
Hearing this sort of sensible response almost makes me not want to build a wall.
>>76690512
>muh econ 101 model is the supreme alpha and omega or economics bow before its GODLYNESS
I don't know why people bitch about how Walmart exploits their works. If they don't want to be exploited then don't work at fucking Walmart. This isn't communist China you can work where ever the fuck you want or go into business yourself. It's as simple as that.
>>76690512
>why can't I raise a family on a mcdonalds wage!
have liberals ever considered that you're not supposed to be able to support a family on that kind of wage?
>>76693314
>Minimum wage need to be raised because companies like Wal-Mart are telling their broke ass employees to get on government assistance and food stamps because their shitty, non-union jobs don't pay enough.
Your employer isn't beholden to take care of you because you decided to sell an arbitrary amount of labor to them. You might as well say that food, utilities, and rent should all be capped at a maximum price to anyone who works at least 40 hours a week.
>>76690512
Markets need to be regulated, end of story.
>>76690512
It takes time for the companies to raise prices again so it can give temporary relief. Raising minimum wage is only ever a short term solution. More low income housing is the long term solution but nobody wants to live near it for obvious reasons.
>>76690801
It also gives companies incentive to fire older employees.
>>76693185
There was a market crash starting in '07, you moron. What a retarded graph
>36 years old
>still on minimum wage
>earning minimum wage at 36 years old
jesus christ
>>76696194
>Your employer isn't beholden to take care of you because you decided to sell an arbitrary amount of labor to them. You might as well say that food, utilities, and rent should all be capped at a maximum price to anyone who works at least 40 hours a week.
or I can say they should get paid by their employer so they don't have to tax my tax payer dollars to cover the company's shitty wages.
>>76696297
Earned Income Tax Credit is what you're describing, and has shown to be effective in a lot of scenarios. It's unfortunately pretty underrated compared to minimum wage, because it's twice as many words and has tax in it so people get scared.
>>76694271
/pol/ is not a nationalist board. It never has been. Commies and socialists need to get out.
>>76695993
Clearly you think a living wage should provide a lavish lifestyle for shanequa and her litter of niglets. I interpret a living wage as a wage capable of feeding 1 person in a group living environment. An actual living wage is probably less than 12k a year. Show me the able bodied person incapable of making 12k a year and I'll show you a lazy sack of shit leech.
>>76695670
You're right, no one kicked in the door and shut us down with tear gas and tazers. They only made it absolutely impossible to conduct business and stay competitive enough with unionized equivalents and corporate versions to survive.
If I snuck into your bedroom and injected you with drug-resistant smallpox cultures in your sleep, would say I forced you to be sick?
>>76690512
I make 11 dollars an hour and even I don't want minimum wage to go up.
Minimum wage increase and 100% free college are two of the most surefire ways to rape an economy.
Minimum wage and other social benefits like "free" education and healthcare werk just fine over here without "destroying our economy".
> muh you can't compare your tiny countries with mighty US
Whatever. Enjoy getting buttfucked by your banks, insurance companies and government while your shitty economy is about to collapse either way.
>>76696557
Are you high? Two thirds of the /pol/ user base would go completely berserk for their homelands and say fuck no to your minarchist nonsense.
>>76696500
>or I can say they should get paid by their employer so they don't have to tax my tax payer dollars to cover the company's shitty wages.
Whatever you save in taxes would be spent on increased cost of living because your food is now more expensive to prepare, ship, and sell.
>>76690512
>36
>Working for minimum wage
Holy fuck, that's beyond sad. Just end it already.
>>76696828
So well you have to import half the third world to prop up your tax base.
>>76696500
>or I can say they should get paid by their employer so they don't have to tax my tax payer dollars to cover the company's shitty wages.
Why is it their employer's responsibility to look after them any more than it is yours?
>>76696903
Just because nationalists never shut up doesn't mean they are the most numerous. Most people here have enough common sense to realize that if given a choice capitalism > nationalism
>>76696620
You're a fuckijg idiot kid that's never lived in the real world or paid a bill in his life.
Where are you going to live with 12k a year in this country? A box in an alley?
>>76691202
>no production cost is 100% labour.
ALL production costs are 100% labor when you actually look at it. Everything that is sold is a product of labor, or the product of a product of labor, or so on. Artificially increasing the price of labor causes literally everything to increase in price.
>>76694344
>A lot of employers will just fire you for asking.
not always the case
as an employer, I try to get people to quit because I fucking despise paying for unemployment and a ton of others share that sentiment
>>76694882
That's literally the only way someone gets in without being known as clock boy
>>76697189
I've done it. You don't eat fancy, and you rent or co-op until you can do better. Eggs, oatmeal and Swiss Chard are your friends. If you're still in that phase of life where you've made horrible decisions that have royally fucked you over until you can make a name for yourself that prospective employers can hear about.
>>76697297
Imma hit you with some Wealth of Nations. Every commodity can be broken down into 3 components: the capital you're working, the labor used to work the capital, and the land used to work the capital.
>>76695975
That's just resources that are being forced out of more productive streams. Just because the free market still functions with shackles on doesn't mean it wouldn't work better without them.
>>76697189
>It's a law of nature you can only work 40 hours a week
>>76697189
Apparently 6 gorrilian illegals manage to do it. Ask them. Their answer is probably going to involve group living, beans and rice, and not being a lazy sack of shit.
>>76695670
You don't know what words mean
>>76697912
You can't really shackle the free market, the same way a bullshit suburbia Christian father can't stop his gay son from putting his dick in other men's asses. It'll find a way around it, so set the end point of where you want your country to be and let free market figure out the path there.
To suggest we can influence free market to work better is about as hubris as the communists who think they can stop it.
>>76695655
We're marching off a cliff but it doesn't have anything to do with allowing hard working, honest foreigners to take out our trash and pick our fruit.
The magnet is the welfare state, that can and does use our money to deliberately import our replacements.
Note that under Johnson's plans those already here and working for a living get an eas(ier) route to a WORK PERMIT. That means they can work a job legally, and pay their share of taxes, it does NOT mean they can vote.
>>76690512
The push for $15/hr is being funded and pushed by major public sector unions that base their wage scale on the prevailing minimum wage.
By supporting 15 you are supporting making government workers more wealthy and all the 15s will be in a higher tax bracket contributing to government worker gold plated pensions.
>>76696828
>just fine over here
he said, as muslim rape gangs, drawn by his government's promises of free shit, molested the daughters and sons of his countrymen (not his, 'cuz he's a virgin)
>>76698155
>You can't really shackle the free market, the same way a bullshit suburbia Christian father can't stop his gay son from putting his dick in other men's asses. It'll find a way around it, so set the end point of where you want your country to be and let free market figure out the path there.
You're missing the point. The market may function under regulation but that doesn't mean it's reaching its full potential. If I can work 45 hours a week at $12/hr without PPACA, but I can only work 32 hours a week with it, then I'm not maximizing efficiency. I might cover my living expenses by driving for Uber for another 13 hours at $10/hr, but that doesn't mean I'm in the same situation I would have been in otherwise.
>>76698155
Is that why inflation keeps running rampant and economic bubbles keep forming? The free market isn't invincible, no matter how good the machine, if you keep throwing wrenches into it you will manage to stop it. You can't make the market work better, but you can stop fucking it up.
>>76690512
Burgers, if you want your country become as shitty as France, increase minimum wage.
>>76690512
I'm 25 and have never worked minimum wage in my life, literally kill yourself
>>76696620
>Clearly you think a living wage should provide a lavish lifestyle for shanequa and her litter of niglets.
lol, buying food for the week and affording housing isn't "lavish".
>>76698316
>The magnet is the welfare state, that can and does use our money to deliberately import our replacements.
I will never understand why you faggots think every person on Earth is either (a) unemployed and on welfare; or (b) a hardcore libertarian.
There was a time we didn't have welfare, we have it now, it's because people who didn't have it to rely on decided they wanted it. When you wave your magic wand and eliminate it, all the "hard working, honest" savages you import from socialist countries to "take out [your] trash and pick [your] fruit" will decide they want it too.
>>76693185
correlation doesn't mean causation. you add nothing to society and no one will miss you if you died tomorrow.
>>76692610
this guy gets it
the owner class will be forced to cut their margins
but dont shed a tear for the poor owner class
they've had a good long run of massive profits at the expense of the american people
>>76694159
if you only make 43k a year and you are over the age of 25 you should consider just killing yourself to make your soon replacement with robots easier on your boss instead of firing the sad stupid sack of shit you are.
>>76693813
>making shit up : the post
>>76698494
you just verbally raped a german
>>76698720
Your arbitrary metric for efficiency is exactly what I'm referring to when I describe a chosen end point. Is your goal an educated population? Longest lifetime expectancy? Most cumulative wealth in your country? Lowest income inequality? Whatever you want to define as success, you set that and people will find the most profitable ways to achieve it over time. No one knows what the most profitable method is until it's happened, that's like armchair theorizing what a perfect soccer team for the next world cup would look like.
>>76698775
As long as people are selfish and have a resource of value they can exchange a free market will exist. Research the gulag as an easy example, there are plenty of instances to support that.
>>76698920
That's the same logic that leads Demonicrats to think that all of us poor whites will one day start voting for them.
It never happened, did it?
>>76698908
It can be for a large enough family. How many kids should you be able to afford on a living wage?
>>76695011
Hi, I have a 3.9 GPA in Econ from a top 10 program and can explain Econ 495 to you.
Ignoring the obviousness of a price floor causing a labor shortage we can understand at least this common idea; a business will expand production until MR = MC. That is to say, it is profitable to continue hiring until the last worker generates revenue equal to their salary. In reality, workers vary in productivity, so some employees making minimum wage generate more revenue than they are paid. This "surplus value" is received by the business are pure profit. There also exists a number of employees who generate revenue somewhere between the current minimum wage and the proposed minimum wage. If a business is profit maximizing, it does not make sense to retain employees whose MR < MC. As businesses scale back production, there will be a short term reduction in income in the country leading to a recession.
I can see a few possible exceptions. If the labor market in any given industry has a perfectly inelastic demand curve (IE it is a magic industry that is unaffected by labor input.) or the demand for the product is also completely inelastic (it is a rare cancer drug subsidized by the government), there is no way the minimum wage increase won't cause a surge in unemployment among people who produce more than the current wage and less the the future min wage.
>>76699544
Not everyone considers tendies, cans of Monster, and an anime girl body pillow to be a "lavish" lifestyle anon.
State governments get a benefit because once the cost of essentials goes up now they're collecting X% of of like $10 instead of $7.
>>76699259
>Your arbitrary metric for efficiency is exactly what I'm referring to when I describe a chosen end point. Is your goal an educated population? Longest lifetime expectancy? Most cumulative wealth in your country? Lowest income inequality?
My goal is to give people the most possible choices to achieve their goals instead of restraining them with regulation.
>Whatever you want to define as success, you set that and people will find the most profitable ways to achieve it over time.
That's your problem; people have different metrics for success. Some people want to be educated, some want leisure time, some want to make money. You, like many of the social engineers on the left, think you know what's best for everyone and regulate as such. Problem is, every time you crack open a door for one person, you slam another one shut for someone else.
>No one knows what the most profitable method is until it's happened
Sure we do. Any time a piece of legislation gets passed we automatically have A-B testing on job conditions before it is enacted and after it is enacted. PPACA, the example I used, resulted in a lot of people having their hours cut to avoid qualifying for health insurance.
>>76699259
>a free market will exist
So-called "free markets" can't function in a system of corporate oligarchy. Those who have the power, i.e. large corporations, control the market. There's not much freedom when your only choice is between one, maybe two options, or nothing. Corporations continue to consolidate their power and tighten their stranglehold on their particular sector of the market.
>>76690512
Why don't we agree the best idea is to lower the prices of goods and services and work together on how we achieve that.
>>76693314
>muh Walmart
Why would anyone work there? You can't learn a single valuable skill in an environment like that.
>>76699314
>It never happened, did it?
No, but the welfare state did.
At one time in the past, we had a bunch of people, who were employed, decide they wanted their government to provide them with benefits.
In the future, you want to cut welfare, then import a bunch of people, from countries where they are accustomed to receiving benefits, give them jobs, and for some reason you think the same scenario that has indisputably already happened won't happen again, except this time with more low-IQ savages to add to the fun.
>>76699657
>Econ Major
I'm surprised your arguing against raising the minimum wage considering that's the type of job you can expect with your degree.
>>76699746
Economic illiterate confirmed. Weaker currencies hurt governments of non-exporting countries.
Hahahahaha Who The Fuck Makes Minimum Wage Nigga Get a different Job Like Nigga Pass A Drug Test Hahaha
>>76700060
I see easily as many low-iq savages among my 'white' neighbors as the hispanics. Plus you're (intentionally?) ignoring the point that he's talking about easing the path to get a WORK PERMIT - NOT to get citizenship. You don't get to vote with a work permit. You just get to work, above board, with benefits and taxes paid.
>>76699886
To lower the price of goods and services, where the highest cost is labour, you'd have to [a] create a much more efficient operation with tech [b] fire employees or [c] cut wages. It turns out that price / wages are relative. Who knew?
>>76699928
Offers a matching 401k, healthcare, stock options, a decent wage for barely any work. If you work in distibution you start out at 16-18 an hour that scales up to like 27-32 an hour. Not a bad first job for a highschooler.
>>76700212
>I see easily as many low-iq savages among my 'white' neighbors as the hispanics.
Statistically, you're wrong and you know it.
>Plus you're (intentionally?) ignoring the point that he's talking about easing the path to get a WORK PERMIT - NOT to get citizenship. You don't get to vote with a work permit. You just get to work, above board, with benefits and taxes paid.
Oh yeah, I guess so, I mean we have millions of illegal immigrants in this country right now and they're politically irrelevant, right?
>>76699786
>My goal is to give people the most possible choices to achieve their goals instead of restraining them with regulation.
That reads like a college freshman who hasn't decided their career. You can't do everything simultaneously, regardless of regulation.
Your A-B test is also confirming my point, those results became apparent after it happened, not before. And in that case it was not profitable, so people will try something else. But I don't need any degree to tell you that no one, including me, can tell you exactly how a piece of legislation will go over in a specific scenario until it's been enacted and you can measure the effects. Forecasting is next to worthless.
>>76699886
If you increase the minimum wage it puts more money in the pockets of lower and lower-middle class household. These households tend to spend a large majority of their budgets on their local economies. Which means that when people can afford to pay their bills without having to decide between whether to eat or pay their rent/mortgage, it improves their quality of life and gives them the ability to stimulate the economy. Increased demand is what allows businesses to grow and expand.
Meanwhile when you increase the wealth of the highest tier households, they stash it or spend it outside the local economy.
>>76690512
can we get a cute picture of how small business owners get put out of business from mandated minimum wage hikes?
Some places are already replacing min wage workers with automation, what do you think is going to happen if you double the min wage?
>>76700199
>everyone should have middle class jobs or higher
>everyone
>middle or higher
nigger, wut?
>>76700368
fuck at first i thought that was shit all over the dick, then i though the pink was skin that had ripped off, then i realized what was actually going on.
>>76700345
>Statistically, you're wrong and you know it.
Nope. I have a lot more confidence in my own observations than in the news reports anon. Mostly because, on the several occasions when I've been on the scene to observe an historical happening, what I've seen with my own eyes has told me that the news reports were lies, fabrications, at best fantasy stories built around a small kernel of truth.
>>76692873
>unable to continue education
Then don't? Do trades or some shit
>health problems
Get a nerd's job
>have no social skills, can't do sales
Sales is the shittiest and most uncreative job there is. learn2apply yourself
If you have a combination of these, then yes, you should probably commit sudoku because you were born a waste of oxygen
>>76700412
Nobody in the lower middle class is making minimum wage. Only the bottom of the lower class is making minimum. I know these ideas are scary but think about why we use these words.
>>76695539
cashflow
>>76700872
Quoting a Neumark paper on this, about 30% of minimum wage goes to households under the poverty line, about another 15%ish goes to households under double the poverty line, and I think 10% goes to households under triple the poverty line.
>>76694642
You a good goy I'll give you that.
>>76700872
Lower-middle class is usually considered around $30,000-$60,000 a year. Annual salary at minimum wage is about $15,00 a year. Which means two people working one job each at minimum wage would be at the bottom end of lower-middle class, and it's not uncommon for people to have more than one minimum wage job.
A lot of the formerly middle class jobs are gone, and they weren't replaced by middle class jobs in a different sector. They were replaced by more low wage jobs with no benefits. So instead of working in a textile factory or auto plant, you have people stocking the shelves in walmart or flipping burgers in McDonald's.
>>76693882
Sucks to suck maybe your dad shouldn't have been a loser
>>76701074
I can't fucking into numbers
>if wages were simply raised to $10.10 with no changes to the number of jobs or hours, only 18% of the total increase in incomes would go to poor families, based on 2010–2014 data (Lundstrom forthcoming). The distributional effects look somewhat better at a higher threshold for low income, with 49% of the benefits going to families that have incomes below twice the poverty line. However, 32% would go to families with incomes at least three times the poverty line. By this calculation, about a third of the benefits would go to families in the top half of the income distribution.
>Moreover, if we consider raising the minimum wage higher, for example to $12, only 15% of the benefits go to poor families, because other higher-wage workers who would benefit are less likely to be poor. Likewise, 35% would go to families with incomes at least three times the poverty line. With a $15 minimum wage the corresponding figures would be 12% and 38%.
>>76700379
>You can't do everything simultaneously, regardless of regulation.
I'm not the beginning and end of the human population. We aren't a hivemind.
>Your A-B test is also confirming my point, those results became apparent after it happened, not before. But I don't need any degree to tell you that no one, including me, can tell you exactly how a piece of legislation will go over in a specific scenario until it's been enacted and you can measure the effects. Forecasting is next to worthless.
It didn't take a fortune-teller to figure out that drastically increasing the cost of employing a person working >X hours would lead employers to make sure their workforce did not exceed X hours. In fact, there were plenty of people prior saying exactly that. You can play the "durr I dunno what exactly is going to happen in this specific scenario" game all you want but splitting hairs doesn't change the fact that imposing regulations on a market is inevitably going to reduce the efficiency of that market, and the more ham-handed the regulation gets the more obvious this is to everyone except apologists such as yourself.
>And in that case it was not profitable, so people will try something else.
Which, again, is not the point. To use your soccer analogy, if I tell the World Cup champions from the last tournament that they can only use players whose names have an odd number of consonants in them next time, I'm going to reduce the quality of that team. They may go out and recruit new players that fit that criteria, and "make it work", as you say, but if those players were as good or better as the ones excluded this time, they would have been on the team in the first place.
>>76690730
Aww c'mon goose, anyone can make a mistake of choosing "gender studies" :^)
>>76700612
>Nope. I have a lot more confidence in my own observations than in the news reports anon. Mostly because, on the several occasions when I've been on the scene to observe an historical happening, what I've seen with my own eyes has told me that the news reports were lies, fabrications, at best fantasy stories built around a small kernel of truth.
Which is ironic, as the news will tell you that we're all the same on the inside and that any differences are due to whitey, whereas science and evidence will tell you that Hispanic populations have lower IQ, lower test scores in school, higher crime rates, etc. The fact that most Latin American nations with majority Hispanic populations are socialist hellholes if not failed states outright doesn't help your case either.
>>76701643
>We aren't a hivemind.
No, but you can't exactly put a farm in the middle of a metropolis. Everything has an opportunity cost.
You can call me an apologist, but as far as I'm concerned if you think you can predict causations I expect to see your stock portfolio winnings, otherwise you are no better than a fortune-teller yourself.
>>76702513
>No, but you can't exactly put a farm in the middle of a metropolis. Everything has an opportunity cost.
Which gets sorted out by the free market quite well. If you want to talk about ass-backwards land uses, it's usually the result of government regulation.
>You can call me an apologist, but as far as I'm concerned if you think you can predict causations I expect to see your stock portfolio winnings, otherwise you are no better than a fortune-teller yourself.
Again, it's pretty clear to the average person that laws disincentivizing X is going to lead to less X. If I told you that Congress was passing the Anti-X Act tomorrow, I could pull any random motherfucker off the street and he'd fortune-tell for you that there'd be less X in our future. I suppose you'd still be hemming and hawing over whether it was due to that or the economy or the Chinese xenon markets or what color underpants you were wearing, which is not strictly wrong in and of itself, but you should and do know that generally the people who do this are the ones who are trying to cover up the fact that they fucked the economy over in their pursuit of centralization.
I've asked for a $1.50 raise every year at my shitty cashier job that I work in University. I've always gotten it except the first time. At this point I'm almost indispensable and know as much (and more) than most of our managers. They often redirect customer conflict through me or have me deal with issues in our POS systems.
Yet my coworkers cannot fathom why I earn $12.50 an hour for doing all that while they make minimum wage to text on their phone for 4 hours and stand off camera.
>>76700160
>>76700160
you're*
Average salary with Master's is 98k. I have a net worth of 1.5mil. I can spell.
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/economists.htm
Also, if I were to be the type of person who would earn the minimum wage, I would be against raising it as I would become unemployed.
>>76697185
You are a useful idiot at best and possibly a filthy merchant at worst.
>>76705169
>implying state power isn't the filthiest merchant there is
>>76701782
The trouble is that your ideas of what science and evidence tell you are, apparently, not all that well informed. Almost as if you have been listening to our media.
>Hispanic populations have lower IQ
Not really. Latin American nations have large 'peasant' populations which no longer realy exist in the USA, once those are removed it's hard to find a statistically difference that can't be easily explained on other grounds.
>The fact that most Latin American nations with majority Hispanic populations are socialist hellholes if not failed states outright doesn't help your case either.
An accurate view of history would give you a slightly more balanced view. It's true that Latin America in general is less developed, and better compared to the US at an earlier stage of development, a few decades back in the more developed areas, a few centuries in the less. That doesn't mean there is a difference in human potential.
And yes shitty socialist governments suck, but what magical property is it that gives non-shitty governments, and why can't we get one here? I'm thinking about this for our next president, holy fuck man do you think we still get to throw stones?
>>76695670
continued noncompliance will result in use of force.
>>76690512
>on minimum wage
>earns more than half the family's income
So are their partners on less than minimum wage? Or are they just fucking lazy and only working a 20hour week?
You can't force a business to regularly pay $15 for $7 worth of productivity. Even if some business decided to do this out of worker solidarity, it would be easily out-competed by businesses that just outsource/automate/hire workers that are worth closer to $15.
All this policy does is it pushes the least skilled workers, who are most desperate for a job, to the back of the line when competing for employment. Normally they can leverage themselves through the low price of their labor, but an artificial wage floor takes away their best bargaining tool.
The minimum wage is one of the most anti-poor policies imaginable, right next to rent control.
>>76707468
>Latin American nations have large 'peasant' populations which no longer realy exist in the USA, once those are removed it's hard to find a statistically difference that can't be easily explained on other grounds.
So what does the U.S. IQ look like when you eliminate their effective peasant class?
