What is it about "well regulated militia" you gun toting hicks don't understand? The 2nd amendment only applies to militias, which back then would have been POLICE AND MILITARY.
Not you dumb rednecks, no one needs an assault weapon or a military weapon.
Discuss
>>76483707
Pull it
>>76483707
>reading comprehension
>>76483707
SHALL
>>76483707
>The 2nd amendment only applies to militias, which back then would have been POLICE AND MILITARY.
... this is bait, yes?
>>76483851
RARE
I'll never understand why people want to willingly hand over god given rights.
>>76483707
Switzerland has a system where a WELL REGULATED MILITIA involves each and every man in the country, and they go off to training to become WELL REGULATED and an actual MILITIA instead of just some fat gumbo slurping on some high fructose soda whilst pawing an assault rifle with their greasy, pudgy fingers
This is actually somewhat close to an important point.
The concept of a militia and the reasons behind it being enshrined in the second fucking amendment have been forgotten by all these fucking hicks that just want their funs.
>>76483707
"the right of the people to keep and bear arms"
>>76483707
I agree OP. Have you read the dissenting opinion in Heller? Makes some great points.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZD.html
>>76483707
Militias important, so people need access to guns
>>76483707
what's an assault weapon?
You hair-splitting trolls are so obvious at this point in an election cycle it becomes difficult to stomach new phrases of argument without sounding repetitive.
>>76483954
Why does Switzerland seem like such a wonderland? It's everything I wish the UK could be.
>>76483993
Separated by comma and not by "--". They could be saying the militia protects the people
>>76483707
>the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed
What were you saying about reading comprehension, dumbass? It says a well regulated militia is important because it is necessary for a free state, and then it says people can have guns. That's not "militias can have guns".
And honestly, who gives a fuck? If you want my guns, come get them.
>>76484075
Because the only blacks are rich people like Tina Turner.
>>76483707
>an era when there were privately owned warships equipped with multiple cannons.
>the right to arms only applied to the military
Why are you a faggot Op?
>>76483993
The people as in the populus (el pueblo), not the persons
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/amendII.html
for anybody who actually cares about the second amendment beyond muh guns, the founders constitution has some really cool commentary relating to its creation. The house rep discussion on it is pretty neat.
>>76483707
>Post DC v. Heller
>Still trying to make this argument.
>>76483707
Time for an English Exam
Question 1:
Whose right shall not be infringed: the well regulated militia or the people?
You should be able to solve this.
>>76483851
RARE
A
R
E
A militia is a civilian army, not a government regulated one.
>>76483707
The founding fathers idea of regulating the state militia system was to make it mandatory for all free white men to own the main infantry weapon of that era.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Acts_of_1792
>>76484215
What's the practical difference in this case?
>>76484326
>well regulated
>not a governement regulated one
Choose one retard
>>76483707
Come and take them, faggot.
You and all your ilk will fertilize the fields.
It will make for some epic YouTube videos don't you think?
If that's the case than militias need to incorporate into Private Military Contractors and Security Agencies.
If you've got an mercenary, bodyguard, private security outfit you can gear out like a boss.
I wonder if you can loophole into gun ownership by claiming you're a self employed private security expert that runs a 1 man militia.
>>76484553
The government regulation is that the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed.
In what way is that not clear?
>>76483707
You really don't have any idea how the second amendment works. The decision of the supreme court on how the 2nd amendment works says that a person has the right to posses a pistol or rifle in your own house, and the government can't do shit about it. Before you are talking so much shit that I can see the words comming out of your mouth, read how Justice Scalia explains to retards like you how you have to understand the the 2nd amendment.
A well regulated militia means that it's a citizen army.
Police, military, FYI, etc are government entities and act according to Governors, presidents and congressmen.
But all that is moot when you realize government is oppressive shit lords and want to make you defenseless while making themselves stronger.
Fuck that. I hope those faggot commies and libtards get raped by imam and ahkmed. I'll laugh in my cozy apartment with my collection of less than legal firearms.
>>76484553
You can stop now. Its getting sad.
>>76484553
I don't think you know the definition of regulated.
>>76484650
Yeah the government gives freedoms to tell people what to do (ie how to regulate 'their own' militiæ
>>76483965
There were a lot of reasons, but the militia bit is more of a side note. Reading the arguments between federalists and anti-federalists will tell you a lot more about the thoughts of the time than what ended up in the final draft.
For example, did you know that up until a few weeks before the signing, slavery was going to be outlined as illegal in the declaration?
Edward Rutledge led the group that refused to sign until that line was stricken
>>76483707
Really wish the Founding Fathers had the foresight to realize including that Militia line was only giving retards centuries in future a tiny thread of logic to yank apart the entire Bill of Rights.
2008 - District of Columbia vs. Heller
2010 - McDonald vs. City of Chicago
COME
>>76483866
semantics.
Security guards, mercenaries, bodyguards... probably rely on the second amendment.
What about non-profit mercenaries, bodyguards, and security guards?
Can't neighborhood watch be called a non-profit security company or militia? You should be able to legally obtain police grade weapons for that purpose.
>>76484553
>government is a bloated bureaucratic mess that wastes billions in money and resources
>"only government is competent enough to regulate a militia"
topkek m8
>>76484743
That's what they get for their fancytalk. Also they were masons so god given means nothing. Also commonlaw sucks
>>76483707
In the off-chance of this not being bait,
What the fuck does militia mean, then?
>>76483707
You can't have a militia without arms, genius.
>>76483707
why the fuck would you need an amendment saying the army can have guns? retard
>>76483707
It clearly says, that both the well regulated militia and the right of people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infriged. It doesn't say that the arms are only for the militia. It says that the existence of the militia and the existence of the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be messed with. Fuck off gun grabber.
>>76484729
Our Constitution doesn't 'give' freedoms. It limits the government's ability to interfere with them.
>>76483707
According to OP
A balanced breakfast, being necessary to the security of the human body, the right of the people to keep and bear bacon, shall not be infringed.
Means that people cannot own bacon.
>>76484553
well regulated meant a militia able to supply it's own ammo, food, and uniforms fit for battle
you're applying a common day definition to a document made over 200 years ago
>>76483965
a gun behind every blade of grass, remember that
>>76484729
>the government gives freedoms
no they don't, they have obligations placed onto them by the constitution, those obligations turning into rights for the people based on the fact that a government obeying the constitution is a lawful one and one not obeying the constitution is a tyrannic government that should be overthrown
the government doesn't give freedoms or tell people what to do, the only way it can exist is by people being willing to participate in it
>>76484832
>fancytalk
the type of wording in the constitution was literally at the level of a normal person of normal educational status in that era
>>76484743
You can literally have a private army for profit and have liberals suck your dick.
What do you think private security companies are?
Any company that organizes armed bodyguards, private security, armored cars should be correctly identified as a militia or para-military organization.
>>76483866
Yes, your post is bait. A militia is exactly the opposite of a police and military force, which is comprised of standing professional forces.
>>76483707
"A well balanced breakfast, being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed."
>>76483707
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zE0K22zH8
>>76485052
So it's all fiat money then like our social security strawmen names and registrations for various bonds and taxes
>>76484729
The state militia system is currently regulated under the Dick Act of 1903. During the revolution there were militias that were well regulated under the other usage of that word that did not work directly for the Continental Congress.
>>76484511
Check the dissent I posted earlier, that lays out the argument. Even if you disagree, it's interesting.
>>76483903
everything you do is god given, government only just takes some from you.
Reminder that it is actually your American duty to own a gun
>>76483707
> we need to write an amendment to the constitution allowing police and military to have weapons.
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Don't WEW me or my wife's lad ever again.
>>76484215
But it doesn't say the militias right to bear arms shall not be infringed.
>>76483707
>Not realizing "well regulated militia" meant every white citizen in the state.
LIBERALS ARE THIS STUPID
For-profit PMCs are legal but non-profit PMCs (volunteer Militias) are not?
Blackwater/Academia... private army, militia. Federal government gives them shitloads of money to train cops and kill bad dudes.
Hillbilly Militia... wants to keep house safe and train for fun like a volunteer firefighting unit. Nah... man. That's nuts.
Fucking insanity.
>>76485145
yes, you are at no point required to follow any law in any country
money is paper that we assign a value, social security names are meant to track the use of money for a theoretical enforcement of laws, which are again theoretical and only put into practice by law enforcement
registrations for bonds and taxes can be entirely ignored with a gun and a few hostages, etc
the only reason the US still exists is because A: people are willing to put up with the government and B: people are willing to work for their fellow man
everything is fake, everything is manmade, we just pretend it isn't. you have complete freedom
>>76483707
1. a well regulated militia; being necessary to the security of a free state
2 the right of the people to keep and bear arms
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
>>76483707
>A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, AS WELL AS the right of the people to keep and bear arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
>>76484732
Side note? Hardly. It was the entire driving force behind it because a citizen militia is infinitely preferable to a permanent standing army if you're trying to maintain a state that doesn't have to live in fear of its own government.
The proto-2nd amendments in some states and the congressional debate when they were writing it revolved heavily around making sure the federal government couldn't fuck up the citizen's militia game and make their own armies. The second part of the amendment was one of those safeguards to keep them from doing shit like the English game hunting laws that disarmed the britbongers.
>>76485207
Why not
>>76484077
Back in the day a comma used to mean something.
>>76483707
This is bait but somewhere I forgot where atm, it says that the militia is all abled men over 17.
>>76486033
I still think an argument can be made for what I said. I need to read that dissenting opinions post
>>76483707
Militia was every man. Stupid gun-grabbers always forget the second line, where the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. This is not a right that comes from the government, nor is it a privalige. It is a right given by God to protect oneself, family, and property.
It will never be changed. Get over it, pretentious city morons that don't want to be responsible for their own safety.
>>76486184
Right of the people or right of the person. Comma. Shall not be infringed. I think the whole damn thing is talking about the first part
>>76483707
You have the right to be autistic mr leaf
>>76484005
Stopped reading after "legislature’s authority to regulate private civilian uses of firearms" because it's a strawman and it's based on a faulty premise. The Heller decision didn't strike down any Federal gun laws and that statement assumes that the Federal government has an enumerated power to completely ban certain weapons. The courts may pretend that such a power exists under the expanded interpretation of the commerce clause but during the 18th century no such power was even thought to exist.
>>76486430
>reword the whole thing
>hurrr I think it was all talking about the first part
god damn leaf
>>76486430
Because militiæ come from both people and persons and protections and rights for arms can be protecing those people no matter how they're setup
>>76485944
They were free associations of men equipped using private funds. They had no legal obligation to follow orders given by the Continental Congress or it's military officers.
aint no government int he world ever had to specify that they have the right to keep a military, the right to form a militia and for individuals to keep and bear arms are specified, separated by a comma
militia's are non-government controlled, but well regulated as specified, meaning that the government can say "hey you can't just keep massive caches of explosive ordinances in the woods come on now"
while the right of the people to keep and bear arms specifies that individuals can and should have guns and use (bear) them
>>76483707
Everyone over 18 who registered for selective service is in the militia you fuck nut.
>>76485051
thats what vegans think to
>>76487359
wanna avoid the draft?
>joint he military
>wait til things are "too hard"
>cry you wanna kill urself
>they take u to a doc
>waah why is life hard?
>never have to go back
>>76483707
>"We need to make sure that our own military and police have the right to keep and bear arms, because tyrants disarming the means by which they enforce their own laws has always been a problem in the past." - Benjamin Franklin, from his book titled Shit No One Would Say
>>76483851
Nice flag
>>76483707
>Bill of rights
Understand every item in this list was designed to protect the rights of all Americans.
To assume that any part of the document suggests otherwise, is a deep display of ignorance regarding the document's very purpose.
>>76487132
I think was smart to use militia because i think (im probably wrong) that mercenaries should be illegal but if uncle sam wants to invent arpanet then let him
>>76487680
R A R E R
A
R
E
R
>>76484005
I skimmed to the next paragraph where they try to pretend that US v. Miller actually set a coherent legal standard. US v. Miller stated that sawed off shotguns could only be banned because they were not "military style" weapons which means that if the so called Miller standard were applied to the whole NFA most of the machine guns and cannons banned by the NFA would be completely legal again because most of the are "military style" weapons.
>>76485000
Triples gets it
>>76483707
replace both commas with the word "also"
"...free state ALSO the right... "
"...bear arms ALSO shall not... "
>>76488501
*all 3 commas
>>76483707
Weak b8 here, m8.
Try harder next time.
>>76483707
At the time it was written, a "well regulated militia" consisted of convincing the townsmen to show up for target, marching, and formation practice by offering free beer. So citizens hanging out getting wasted drinking beer and shooting guns is a "well regulated militia."
>>76483851
What flag is this?
>>76483707
Someone post the pic of the grammatical breakdown of it. Please.
>>76483707
What part of reading a whole fucking sentence do you not understand OP? And again, this argument is completely invalidated by the fact that US law and most state constitutions recognize the people as the militia.
>>76487680
That flag must make all the romanians jealous, clearly the superior clown tent.
>>76483707
Dumbass.
>>76483707
'The militia' is not a sanctioned Military from the government, retard. It's civilians. And yes, they do need assault and military weapons.
Are libcucks really this illiterate?
How anyone can look at the Australian example of gun control and our sharp reduction in violence is totally beyond me. You're wilfully deluding yourselves. 11000+ plus gun deaths per year is just mind boggling 3rd world tier shit. How can you honestly be comfortable with laws which allow things like Sandy Hook, Aurora and San Bernardino to take place in the name of "freedom" to own weapons?
>>76488356
it's fun when people trip themselves up like that. private howitzers without having to go on dumb lists and pay massive fees when?
>>76485000
Went to post this, witnessed.
>>76489049
because im not a cucked nu male retard that gives his rights up because of 100 deaths a year
glad you're happy with it, though
>>76489049
You would reduce violence even more if you mandated everyone to run around handcuffed. Having your assault fists available at all times is completely unnecesarry, you could ask your designated government handler every time you want to go to the bathroom.
>>76489049
freedom>safety
>>76489049
>gun deaths
every time
>>76489049
Also you should ban alcohol. Many crimes in Australia happen when people are drunk and angry.
>>76489049
Show me a significant correlation between gun policy and the per capita rate of victimization for people killed in mass murders. Australian guns laws were a complete failure in terms of reducing violent crime in general. People merely attributed preexisting statistical trends toward less violent crime to the Australian NFA.
>>76489049
>the australian gun control meme
Gun homicides have not dropped since 1996, in fact they've been about the same for the past 85 years.
tfw the only way theyre taking my guns is from my cold dead hands
great feel
>>76483707
A well regulated breakfast, being necessary to a healthy start to the day, the right of the people to keep and eat food, shall not be infringed
>>76483707
In the 1700's the term 'well regulated' meant 'in good working order' it had nothing to do with the modern notion of 'regulations'.
Look up the meaning in a dictionary from the time period it was written.
What does a militia need to be in good working order? People with guns.
>>76488716
Guam
>>76489049
>over 60% of gun deaths are suicides
>Australian homicides are no different because of stricter control
>most gun crime is used with illegally obtained firearms
>gun ownership is inversely related to crime
>etc
>>76489533
Also on mobile you can tap the flag which opens it up in a new tab. From there you just need to see the file name. Google those two letters + "country" and then bam
>>76483707
The founders explained many times in their writings that the militia is the whole people and well regulated means well equipped.
>>76483707
When this document was drafted, what were the intentions of the authors? How was it implemented in practice?
>>76489195
>I'm a cuck because I don't want to live in the third world
>>76489204
That's a fucking stupid argument and you know it. I can't kill a room full of people with my fists in a minute and neither can you.
>>76489208
I disagree. Could you imagine Alice or Redfern with free range of guns?
>>76489224
>Facts
>Every time
Yeah
>>76489364
Still retarded
>>76489379
I don't have any numbers but I do have the anecdote that we simply haven't had a single massacre since the laws were introduced. In my 25 years I haven't seen a gun on anyone but a police officer and that's the way I like it. Never once needed one to defend myself because at worst I'm dealing with fists or a knife.
>>76489388
Maybe, maybe not. I can't confirm or deny that. I do know we don't have old mate shooting up Westfield every few months and that's how I like it.
>>76483707
>The 2nd amendment only applies to militias
Correct
>which back then would have been POLICE AND MILITARY
Incorrect, militias were made up of every able bodied man and boy who could carry a rifle
Fuck off commie, if you want to be somewhere without guns so bad why don't you move to one of the dozens of countries that already meet that requirement?
Why are you acting like a filthy muslim who wants to change the place he is in instead of going somewhere that already has what you want?
>>76486184
Although I agree with you that the 2nd Amendment needs to be treated more seriously, I fail to see your source of evidence; "God" have any validity.
The bill of rights was written by James Madison in 1776. Are you saying that James Madison was the Messiah? There is no established religion on Earth as of right now that asserts this belief, so I rightfully regard your source of evidence as false. I do, however, support your argument.
>>76489049
>It doesn't matter that the overall homicide rates are unaffected, as long as they aren't dying by guns, anything is justified
>>76484005
I miss Scalia already.
>>76483707
A militia is not the military or the police, it's a civilian force that isn't under the direct command of the military, but can be regulated by the government or pressed into military service in times of war.
But yes, I very much doubt that our current gun culture is what the founders had in mind. Same thing with interpreting the first amendment as being money = free speech.
The fact of the matter is that the Supreme Court can do whatever the fuck it wants, and ultimately the justices make their decisions based on their own political leanings, always have. They come up with an opinion based on their own political views and then justify it after the fact with whatever bullshit they can pull out of their ass. It's how you can have one court say that segregation fits within the Fourteenth Amendment, and have another court decades down the line say it's not. It's simply different value systems.
This is what happens when you give one branch of the government an incredible amount of power with next to no oversight, and make it incredibly difficult to actually change the constitution. The United States is not a democracy and was never intended to be, it's a constitutional republic, we can't have the riff-raff causing problems so we make it next to impossible for them to change anything.
>>76489892
Show me an example of an untrained person killing 30+ in one day with anything less than a gun or explosives and you might have a leg to stand on.
>>76489776
The math suggests that gun control laws don't do anything. Apparently there are illegal homemade SMGs in Australia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv33pCUkLRM
>You about to fight the government when then this thing rolls through your neighborhood
Newflash: your little guns aren't gonna do shit
>>76489974
Yer mum's 30+ and I kill her in one day with muh dik
>>76489776
>maybe, maybe not
Literally fucking look up the official government statistics on homicide and correlate them with gun crime and gun distributions.
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide/weapon.html
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-03/nsw-gun-ownership-figures-private-licences-greens-foi/6668440
>>76489974
>a gun or explosives
You're moving the goal posts. At first it was about guns, now guns AND explosives can't be used as arguments.
I could fucking demolish a building in 25 seconds flat within the next week using household items and shit I can buy at a local hardware store.
Do you think guns and explosives are some mystical group of items that can't be created by the normal man?
>>76483707
That clearly implies that individuals all having their own guns is a prerequisite for the formation of a well regulated militia that can freely secure its own state.
>>76483707
YOU ARE THE MILITIA
The way that amendment is written has always confused me. It almost feels more like a "has anyone really been far even as decided" word soup rather than a complete legible sentence.
http://photos.state.gov/libraries/finland/788/pdfs/Sketchbook_Fin.pdf
This page says that the official Finnish translation of the amendment goes
>Koska hyvin valvottu kansalliskaarti on tarpeellinen vapaan valtion turvallisuudelle, kansalaisten oikeutta omistaa ja kantaa aseita älköön loukattako.
which means
>Since a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
That wording would've been much more easy to read and understand.
>>76490124
I'm not moving the goal posts at all you spaz. Guns are 99% of my argument I just remembered that one example of the Bath school disaster but you can't buy those kind of ordinance anywhere either - with good fucking reason.
Some single use fucking cap gun you need to hit with a hammer and the supposed napalm you think you can cook up aren't in the same arena as shit you can buy in walmart in the states. At least TRY to be objective you total shit cunt.
>>76489974
>Implying explosives are hard to make
Barely literate goat farmers make bombs based on guides written by theocrats with a 3rd grade education every single day.
>>76489974
>Intentionally excluding explosives because he knows they are impossible to regulate, just like guns, and have much higher casualty ratings.
>Other qualifiers because you know shit has happened and you don't want to be proven an idiot
>Still standing by the claim that gun murders are worse than other forms of murder
>Still standing by the stance that mass murders are anything but a statistical anomoly
Childers back pack fire killed 15
Snowtown Murders, 12 dead
Churchill Fire, 10 dead
Quaker Hill Nursing Home fire, 11 dead
Cairns Child Killings, 8 dead
And that's just Australia since 1992, and doesn't count the half dozen or so hugely publicized shootings in your shithole of a country.
>>76490345
>guides written by theocrats
>literally has a pic related of one of the guides they use
yeah nah, we wrote their manuals.
>>76490345
With 0 regulation on the ingredients they can obtain, which include already existing ordinance from the old baath party with guidance from literal explosive experts. Adam Lanza et al could not have reproduced this.
>>76490344
Explosives can be made with ammonium phosphate fertilizer and diesel fuel. Just because you don't know how easy it is to make explosives, doesn't mean others are just as ignorant or that it isn't easy. Black powder is charcoal and ammonium, sulphur for a more even burn. Napalm can be made with gasoline (petrol) and styrofoam. Thermite is aluminium powder and iron oxide (rust) powder. RDX explosives (like C-4) are easily made in a single trip to a hardware store.
>>76490018
Yeah, the US is really good at counter-insurgency and they couldn't possibly lose because they have tanks, planes and drones and sheeit.
>>76489776
Why do the people have to be in a room to make their lives matter?
Way more are killed with fists than with handguns, that is a fact that you can't just talk away with "muh, people have to be in a room and be killed in the same hour, else it doesn't count".
>>76490354
Fires and stabbings of old people, sleeping people and children, all of which happen state side. We don't have massacres of able bodied people by 130lb autists.
why is it so fucking easy to bait /pol/
any other board on the whole fucking website cannot be baited this easily
you can shit out two words like /pol/ BTFO and get 300 replies
>>76490608
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Calgary_stabbing
>>76490344
Very good explosive can be made with household shit by anyone who knows a little about chemistry or can Google. The fact that most bombings happen with bombs made of fireworks and match heads is amazing and a bit of a blessing.
>>76490608
Also, that moving of goal posts. You keep narrowing your qualifications to exclude answers that beat your ass.
>>76490487
Fuels are common and will never be banned. Oxidizers are still freely available to the public and can be made through high school level chemistry.
>>76483851
NOT
>>76487680
Hello Nigger, how do you get internet?
>>76483707
>, the right of the people to keep and bear arms,
>, the right of the people
>, the right
>,
That comma means a lot.
>>76490491
My beef is really with guns. Chemistry isn't my field so but I'm sure it can be done. It's a different question to readily available firearms and their ease of use.
>>76490575
More people are killed by isn't the same as ability to kill per minute. I'm not arguing for cars to be banned because they have an actual use, like ones hands. Again, you're a fucking retard making retarded arguments.
>>76483903
There is no such thing as a god given right.
>>76490815
>More people are killed by isn't the same as ability to kill per minute
So now people being actually killed are less important than some abstract ability?
>>76490815
A slam bang shotgun can be made with $20 of piping. Single shot, essentially break action shotgun. Not to mention more complex guns can be fabricated fairly easily. It even happens in Australia.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/jeweller-angelos-koots-admits-to-making-submachine-guns-at-his-seven-hills-home-and-supplying-them-to-bikie-groups/story-fni0cx12-1226760983916
I refer you to the literal Philadelphia Militia of 1776-onwards
The met twice a year shot a few rounds and drank and bantered about
>>76489974
Gun violence is just like any other violence.
When man was brought into the world, they fought with hands.
They closed their hands and made fists.
They straightened their hand swings and made punches.
They opened their hand again, and grabbed the bone.
They swung the bone, and made hammers.
They took hammers and flattened the bones to the magical meme katana fold number, and made blades.
Blades could kill. A man could accidently another man.
Then, man made gunpowder.
Congrats, you can now... kill another man, just as you could with the blade, except now you can get away just faster.
Then man made engines, and steel, and tanks. Now an entire troop could kill another entire troop. An entire army could kill another entire army. Then the biggest fool of 'em all invented the atomic bomb. Now? An entire nation can kill another nation. Guess what's next: planetary weapons.
M.A.D., or Mutually Assured Destruction is not mutually exclusive to nuclear weapons, it can happen on the individual, army, nation or planetary levels. A man can instantly get killed by the man he killed. Both men had rifles. Now you must ask yourself one question:
Should weapons be M.A.D for everyone or Parasitically Assured Destruction for the elite? Guns taken from the people still gives guns to the police. This creates what is known as a police state, and it is featured heavily in dystopian novels because it is a lasting pillar of dystopia in the real world. Without a gun, you have no power against the illuminati, the NWO, neo-nazis, gangs, Oceania, Napoleon's dogs, the Lord's Resistance Army, or even the Islamic State.
>>76490815
Assault fists or cars solve no problems the government issued bathroom handler or public transport couldn't do.
So all deaths by fist or individual cars are unnecessary killings.
>>76490844
But there is such a thing as constitutional rights. Which are just as insane to give up.
>>76490733
>muh moving the goal posts
If I'd been arguing that we need to stop death full stop then you could drop your reddit tier shit. From the beginning my point is the capacity for murder that firearms can produce by the layman on ordinary citizens and it's unmatchable that by what firearms can do. I'm talking from post 1 about the difference in Australian and American law and the frequency of gun murder. Shove your false ad hoc shit up your ass, it doesn't make you sound clever.
>>76490735
Fair enough. Back to firearms. They shouldn't be in the hands of ordinary people and again the Australian example proves this.
>>76490344
> I just remembered that one example of the Bath school disaster but you can't buy those kind of ordinance anywhere either - with good fucking reason.
There are guides on the internet with instructions on how to make Dynamite, TNT, and fucking Nitroglycerine. Most bombings have been done with fertilizer mixed with a common type of automotive fuel.
You don't need to buy it, you need to make it.
>Some single use fucking cap gun you need to hit with a hammer
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/VD-Siezed-Guns-.jpg
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/australianhomemademachinepistols-improguns.jpg
People that have genuinely resorted to selling drugs and offering "protection services" (aka fucking standover man work) can make guns just as capable of killing as your so called illegal banned guns.
>and the supposed napalm you think you can cook up
Have you literally never heard of chlorine+brake fluid bombs or mixing melted foam cups in with cheap alcohol and turning that shit into a napalm that will stick to skin and burn through it?
>aren't in the same arena as shit you can buy in walmart in the states.
I can fucking destroy a building with nothing stopping me but the curious intuition of a local farm supply worker, and that's outclassed by an AR-15 lower that you have to get federal background checks and mental health checks for?
>At least TRY to be objective you total shit cunt.
You're the one throwing insults.
>>76490815
>More people are killed by isn't the same as ability to kill per minute
Then why aren't you whining about bombs? I can kill 35 people and wound hundreds with an afternoon of work and a fucking pressure cooker. Look at the boston bombings.
>My beef is really with guns.
So you're caring about a method of killing used only by criminals verses downright murder using fists?
The murder of many many people doesn't matter to you, because they're not using guns?
>>76483707
MILITARY.
The government military was what was referred as an army and a militia was armed citizens.
Well regulated meant they had their shit in proper working order.
>>76489049
We like that the niggers are killing eachother off mmkay. Its like petrolsniffing for your abbos.
>>76483707
No, you syntax lacking halfwit.
The sentence means you cannot infringe the people's right to keep and bear arms, or a well regulated militia would be impossible to keep.
>>76487680
THIS IS NOW A RARE THREAD
>>76483707
The co-author of the amendment, George Masefield, said, "who I ask sir, is the militia? It is the whole people."
>>76491208
This, read commas shit heads
>>76491041
I agree with that. I just can't stand when people say "God given." I can't find it anywhere in the Bible where God says we're entitled to a damn thing.
>>76483707
See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._46
>>76490908
Yeah you're retarded and haven't addressed 1 point I've made, you've just said random shit. Last reply for you.
>>76490933
Not the same as an AR15 no matter how you slice it
>>76490993
This so called police state doesn't concern me as things are. I have faith in my fellow man and the last 20 years has shown that faith to be well placed. We do have some problems with government and their over reach, but it isn't Orwellian. The worst people can point at these days is the lock out laws, essentially bans on young people doing Jager bombs at 4AM. Do you really have that little faith in your fellow Americans you think the police or the military would take up arms against the citizens they protect?
>>76491068
Gun policy doesn't even correlate with homicide and there are multiple studies that found that the Australian NFA had nothing to do with the decline in homicide that because before the NFA was passed which was mentioned the pic here >>76489379
>>76491068
First you ignored explosives, then you ignored other forms of mass murder. You also stand by the claim that overall murder rate is irrelevant as long as it isn't being done by guns. You also ignore the bits about self defence and how general gun ownership is not, repeat not, related to overall homicide rate, and if anything it lowers it. You also forget that Australians can own guns, and do so in similar numbers to pre gun control levels.
>>76490796
>>76491208
>>76491280
>implying people can read anymore
>>76491317
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u2feHybSpw
>shoeless pakis can precision engineer shit in mud buildings but aussies can't
not even surprised desu
>>76491317
>Not the same as an AR15 no matter how you slice it
>T-those submachine guns aren't the same as a semi automatic rifle.
>The bikie gangs aren't using guns at all
http://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/fears-guns-are-becoming-the-norm-in-victoria/story-fnj4aog3-1227587354170?utm_content=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Twitter
>>76491317
https://youtu.be/Dv33pCUkLRM
All you need to make this gun is a drill and some handtools.
>>76486157
Get this through your thick skull leaf, if at the time random people not in militias were toting guns (with no objections), wtf do you think the founding fathers meant when they wrote the 2A?
From the Pennsylvania constitution of 1776:
XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.
>>76491317
>We do have some problems with government and their over reach, but it isn't Orwellian
You poor thing
>>76491317
>Not the same as an AR15 no matter how you slice it
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/VD-Siezed-Guns-.jpg
9mm, semi automatic, fires the exact same cartridge as one of your scary glawk brand glawks.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/openboltrifle9294improguns.jpg
Open bolt .50 BMG rifle, this fires the exact same cartrige as a Barrett M83 anti-materiel rifle. This one was made by a mexican cartel, and those cartels send guns to Australia.
http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/552d6dadeab8eae17c4fe55f-1188-800/homemade22revolver1-improguns.jpg
You can see here a home made .22 revolver, again by the cartels.
No matter how you fucking spin it, your point doesn't work.
You are ignoring all points anyone makes and simply saying you're right over and over again. You refuse to listen, or respond in any decent way.
Go jump into the pacific, and make sure to take a synagogue with you on the way out.
Get fucked.
>>76489776
I'm in the US in commiefornia and the only place you'll see a gun is on a policeman or at a range, and I don't know anybody who's been attacked with a gun(I do know a guy that got mugged with a baseball bat in Baltimore, and a guy that got mugged with a chefs knife in london). However, that doesn't change the fact that our murder rate is higher than Texas. Your personal experience only reflects a small segment of the society.
>>76484729
Not understanding what classical liberalism is.
A fucking leaf...
>>76491638
>mexican homemade .50 bmg
yeah nah fuck that.
>>76483707
Police did not exist in 1776. Your argument is false and just stupid.
>>76491575
Oh America doesn't have problems with government over reach? You're living in a perfect society where everyone gets along? More power to you.
>>76491639
The murder rate being high is one thing, having to fear the possibility of mass murder in any mundane situation is another thing. I'm happy to take on any and all comers with my fists win or lose but getting taken out by some fucking autist with a gun while I'm trying to enjoy Angry Birds with my nephew is a pill I can't swallow.
>>76491879
> I'm happy to take on any and all comers with my fists win or lose but getting taken out by some fucking autist with a gun while I'm trying to enjoy Angry Birds with my nephew is a pill I can't swallow.
You literally just said you deny reality.
>>76483707
Require membership in a militia if someone is to have arms.
>>76492023
I don't know how it is in other states but in mine every man over 14 is militia.
>>76491856
put trigger warnings on your images, jesus, people may be eating
>>76492023
>Require membership in a militia if someone is to have arms.
If your join my militia then there will be two of us!
:)
>>76491856
Hey, they make half our fucking cars, or at least their parts, before they're shipped stateside. I wouldn't put a fiddy past 'em.
>>76491879
>having to fear the possibility of mass murder in any mundane situation is another thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia
>But they don't use guns
Just admit you're scared of guns, and that's why you argue so irrationally against them. Death can come at any moment from a million different sources, you being scared of something that's a statistical anomaly means nothing to me, and I won't let you take away my rights because of your irrational fear.
>>76491960
Specifically answer what I just said instead of putting words in my fingers.
>>76491879
Even in the worst years in the US the rate of victimization for people killed in mass murders shooting incidents only goes up to about 4 per 10 million in the population. Single incident single victim homicide is by far the bigger threat mathematically.
>>76492185
You. Literally. Just. Said. You. Deny. Reality.
How the fuck am I supposed to have a rational argument with you when you ignore everything I say and just scream about duh evil guns and muh safe society?
I get it, we're all afraid of dying, especially so suddenly through no fault of our own, but you need to put that fear aside and argue rationally.
>>76491879
>Not being able to own a gun myself legally makes me think mass murderers can't kill me
>>76490013
>>76490013
so USA has 3rd highest homocide rate? top statistics
>>76492304
So in your reality people can take out a movie theatre with their fists? Specifically respond or fuck off.
>>76483707
OP calls a majority of the Supreme Court "gun toting hicks" and idiots still treat it as a serious enough post to respond. . .
>>76492023
According to the Dick Act of 1903 all able bodied men are part of the reserve militia and can be conscripted in times of national emergency.
>>76483707
Regulated as in systemitized. Read the other works of the men who authored the document. Context is important.
"Well regulated" in this sense means "indelibly systemic to the culture."
When interpreting this stuff you need to know both the language of the times and have a basic grasp of their intent.
I'd call you an idiot in closing on any other board, but I'll assume you're a trolling instead and I formally bequeath this (You) in good faith.
>>76492392
Believing that all gun crime and all criminals will go away if you make something illegal is fucking delusional.
You do realize Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world, right? Over there you can get pulled out of your house and executed in front of your neighbours if you do anything a cartel doesn't like.
If someone wants to commit a mass murder badly enough, they're going to do it, no matter how many laws you make.
Accept reality or fuck off.
>>76492392
Because mass stabbing attacks don't happen. Because mass vehicular attacks don't happen. Because bombings don't happen. Because criminals don't still get guns if the guns are illegal.
You are afraid of the possibility of the presence of guns but ignore that there are still tons of guns in Australia, both legal and illegal. You could die any moment. There are millions of ways you could die any second, and a mass shooting is extremely close to the bottom of the list, even if you live in the USA. Statistically they don't happen, and are considered huge outliers. That's why they're so publicized.
>>76492368
>cherry picking a scatter plot
Why? Anyway compare this scatter plot the next one I'm going to post.
>>76492112
>>76492165
Differentiate "Well-regulated" from unorganized militia.
All you need to do now, is set the requirements for what is considered "Well regulated" (gun safety and weapon handling training + how often you do other training like target practice). Then define militia to require an X amount of people.
>>76492368
And here's the second one.
>>76492651
>All you need to do now, is set the requirements for what is considered "Well regulated"
Well, if you are not shooting at me, you are just fine!
>>76492651
"Well regulated" means in working order. If you can organize with others and arm yourselves then your militia is well regulated. Not to mention every citizen in the USA is part of the militia over the age of 17.
>>76490777
BE
nice godly trips btw
>>76492651
Well-regulated has actually been defined legally here I don't remember what is was and im way too lazy to search for it though.
>>76492862
KANGZ
>>76492695
I noticed there are some states missing in that graph, what happened to them?
>>76492812
>"Well regulated" means in working order.
What does "working order" mean?
>If you can organize with others and arm yourselves then your militia is well regulated.
This isn't the only possible option. You can put strict requirements to qualify as "working order". For instance, if you don't train X times a month you won't be considerd "working order", etc.
All the gubmint has to do set these requirements and they can essentially have a form of gun control without infringing on the 2nd amendment.
>Not to mention every citizen in the USA is part of the militia over the age of 17.
This is considered the "Unorganized militia."
>>76493072
KEK
>>76492185
Ok then.
>The murder rate being high is one thing, having to fear the possibility of mass murder in any mundane situation is another thing. I'm happy to take on any and all comers with my fists win or lose but getting taken out by some fucking autist with a gun while I'm trying to enjoy Angry Birds with my nephew is a pill I can't swallow.
I'm sorry you feel inadequate or otherwise unable to handle the responsibilities inherent with firearm ownership. But some people can actually handle it. Thus, in my country you'd be free to leave yourself nearly defenseless, but not to dictate whether other people could or could not defend themselves.
Daily reminder that Australia has SERIOUSLY ACTUALLY AND TRULY banned such ineffective novelties as throwing stars and nunchuks. Because after all, the Australian people are nothing but bare savages on the brink of total self-destruction, and MUST be civilized to be saved from themselves.
Wouldn't you agree?
>>76493113
>>"Well regulated" means in working order.
>What does "working order" mean?
If a watch is well regulated, it keeps the time. If a militia is well regulated, it can effectively defend against military invaders.
The rest of your post is wrong, because the 2A doesn't require militia participation have the right to keep and bear arms, only be one of "the people" AKA a US citizen.
>>76483707
We have discussed it, and the consensus is, you're a stupid fucking twat who needs to an hero immediately. Please abide by our verdict.
>>76493073
No, there's not. When I made the scatter plot the column containing the state names took up 50 rows.
>>76493113
Reserve militia. Not unregulated militia. It is the most regular militia outside of Switzerland, the model after which it was designed.
>>76492585
dude, do you know that has happen in china, gaza and japan? Mass stabbings, like mass shooting, are uncommon.
>>76493425
That's the point, mass attacks are hugely irrelevant. That's why restricting gun ownership in fear of them is ridiculous.
Legally, all "well regulated" means is that my Militia is going to kick you ass before you kick are ass..
>>76493244
>The rest of your post is wrong, because the 2A doesn't require militia participation have the right to keep and bear arms, only be one of "the people" AKA a US citizen.
Says who? It's only this way by convention. You can certainly interpret it as referring to militias since militias are literally armed citizenry.
Therefore you can interpret it as "you are allowed to have weapons if you are part of a well regulated militia."
>If a watch is well regulated, it keeps the time. If a militia is well regulated, it can effectively defend against military invaders.
Can it effectively defend if it isn't trained? If there's no shooting practice? If there's no gun safety training etc.? If they don't train manouvres or survival skills?
>>76493113
>This is considered the "Unorganized militia."
Until they get conscripted and are compelled to follow military regulation.
>>76493113
>What does "working order" mean?
It means they were supposed to take care of their weapons
>>76493543
http://awrm.org/
>>76493532
>"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, and shall not be infringed. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. 2 separate points. Not to mention most gun owners practice with their guns when they can.
>>76483707
>no one needs an assault weapon or a military weapon.
its ok because i just own commercial grade weapons
>>76483707
the people are the militia you dumb slobbering fuck.
go get an education.
Guess what bitch nigga i am the militia
Regulate meant to maintain
>>76493532
>Says who
The supreme court.
>>76483707
>"The right of the people to keep and bear arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."
What part of that do you not understand ITS SO FUCKING SIMPLE!
>>76483866
Nah, faggot OP saw fat Cenk spout this shit. This is a legit argument right now. Well, it's an argument that is being made by legit people, not just trolls. Really is just semantics. I mean in 1776 they had militaries and militias. If they meant militaries they would have used the word military.
>>76493687
>2 separate points.
Because the original wording is a clusterfuck, it's impossible to guarantee that this was meant as 2 separate points and not two sides of the same coin.
For instance the second part might exist to specify that the militia is indeed made up of "the people". If they have that right as part of a militia then there's no problem?
>Not to mention most gun owners practice with their guns when they can.
Sure, so they'd have no problem joining a militia.
This form of "gun control" has several advantages.
1) It makes people better organized and effective in times of crisis
2) It creates a community who keeps each other in check.
3) It excludes anyone not willing to be kept in check which are the worst offenders, i.e.: lone wolf shooters lashing out.
4) It excludes niggers.
>>76494132
>Nah, faggot OP saw fat Cenk spout this shit
Cenk is not looking so good tonight...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV7i0rDqeZI
>>76483707
I take it reading comprehension was never your strong suit
>>76485379
As long as you can complete all your freedoms from a jail cell.
>>76494259
>Because the original wording is a clusterfuck, it's impossible to guarantee that this was meant as 2 separate points and not two sides of the same coin.
Learn how commas work.
>>Not to mention most gun owners practice with their guns when they can.
>Sure, so they'd have no problem joining a militia.
Except the 2A never says that you need to be in a militia to keep and bear arms, just be one of "the people".
>>76494514
That means you failed to protect your own safety, if you just killed the people coming to take you, you wouldn't be in prison.
>>76494564
>Learn how commas work.
If it's not a clusterfuck then why are people to this day still bitching about it? Even native anglophones can't agree.
>>76494514
>As long as you can complete all your freedoms from a jail cell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf
>>76494648
Heller case agrees that the right to keep and bear arms belongs to the people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
>>76494648
People are bitching about it because they will do anything to get rid of guns.
>>76484553
"regulated" in these terms mean "ability to be well armed"
>>76483707
>what is militia?
Militia is a peasant at arms.
Kill yourself my man
>>76485749
>a citizen militia is infinitely preferable to a permanent standing army if you're trying to maintain a state that doesn't have to live in fear of its own government.
Military people are the most paranoid fearful people I know, putting that burden on every civilian exponentially increases societal anxiety.
>>76489049
>is totally beyond me.
We know. You're just not used to freedom so it means nothing to you to just give it up. We don't want to be Gaystralia. Fuck off.
>>76490018
Because tanks have ended every insurgency instantly, right? Tanks keep us out of bogged-down wars, tanks can tell civilians from insurgents. Tanks on American soil won't be bothered by rules of engagement or anything silly like that.
Tanks are how we won Vietnam and every war since, right?
>>76494502
ba dum tiss
>>76495485
Finland seems to be doing alright.
![B20LbnbCYAA4n6V_2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/zOpBv3P.jpg "B20LbnbCYAA4n6V_2[1].jpg")
>>76483707
>>76495643
It appears that way because NATO does all their real military work.
>>76495833
So? You said being in a militia would make everyone anxious all the time. Finnish people are all in a militia and are militia trained, but aren't anxious all the time. Same with the Swiss.
>>76490344
lmao this fucking clown
>>76483707
however this is interrupted is mute at this point. The USA will never round up 400 million weapons. Not without a lot of bloodshed. Is that gonna be worth it. ? That's the true question. Most Veterens I know would rather die on their feet than die on their knees. People would rather die than be at the mercy of others. Blood WILL flow. You will be left with the weak and powerless. This is a known fact. It's what built the USA.
>not knowing what an nonrestrictive clause is
>not understanding English
>>76496015
I said a government that only relied on militia without a standing army and you chose a government run by several foreign standing army that treats their own population like boy scouts.
>>76493739
any of those .366tkm sks's?
