I've studied major wars for my electives in University but the one war I only got a brief understanding of was the Vietnam war.
Basically this is what happened....
>Americans come in after the French are defeated
>Ay yo fuck Communism spreading into SE Asia anymore
>Find the enemy in his own backyard
>Ooops he's waiting for us
>Ooops seeking and destroying is hard when they are expecting that
>Use major airpower
>Ohfuck.jpg they have MIG's and advanced AA
>Commies fight dirty
>Americans can't kill enough of them
> ???????? Liberals?????????
>War effort declining no more troops given
>Communists see weakness
>War ends, Commies win
What was the plan to win that war? It seems like it was based around ignorance of what literally just happened to France, a complete underestimation of a determined enemy and horrible strategy (ie walking into hostile territory undermanned/outnumbered and hoping for the best). I realize the media fucked shit up for the US homefront, but other than that there were massive issues across the board.
How could have the US possibly won Vietnam? OR was it really just a stop-gap to avoid a larger war later in Asia, as in when China jumped into Korea years earlier...
????
>>76353007
who cares you 15 year old faggot
>>76353007
There was no plan to win the war in Vietnam. It was merely part of a larger plan to win the war against global communism. We could have easily marched into Hanoi but then we would have triggered an open conflict with China and Russia, which would not have been good for anyone.
>>76353007
the plan was to take over the poppy fields and make a shitload of heroin that the CIA could sell to black ghettos.
>>76353007
Should have never thrown out Diem.
On the other hand the Vietnamese communists basically gave it up a generation after the war and Vietnam is rapidly becoming a strong partner of the United States, so the whole thing was even more pointless in hindsight.
>>76353007
Go read a book nigger, it's a long, complicated issue. If you want dumbed down meme history just go watch John Green.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2IcmLkuhG0
>>76355416
>Should have never thrown out Diem.
America didn't overthrow Diem.
>>76353007
It was for war profiteers and a racial cleansing
>>76356170
Kennedy gave the green light to the Vietnamese military officers who did though. May not have prevented his ultimate demise, but it's an interesting what-if.
The ultimate goal was to rape vietnamese women and instil US culture into the land. Looking at Vietnam now you can kinda say it worked, since it's becoming more and more Americanized like Japan. I bet it's because the new generation is all rape babies.
>>76356170
This guy is full of shit .. I use to like him until I understand he work for the globalist Illuminated Zionist Fanatics...
Wasn't China trying to actively conquer vietnam, and the fact that America was there prevented such land grabs?
>>76353007
Liberals made us lose the war with communist propaganda at home. US was winning Vietnam and the NVA were losing until we decided to give up.
Same with Korea. Liberal democrat communist Truman fired MacArthur because he was going to crush the Norks and Chinese with nuclear weapons. If we had done what MacArthur wanted we wouldn't have a communist China and a unified Korea.
I took a whole 300-level college course on Vietnam, its kind of like this:
* Ho Chi Minh knocks around Europe in the interwar period.
* WWII happens, OSS decides Ho is someone they can work with. He likes this independce thing
* What? France is back? aw hell no. Ho and Giap take what they learned fighting the Japanese and win an isurgent war
* Country splits mid-1950s into Communist/Bhuddist/Vietnamese-speaking North, and Jeffersonian/Catholic/French-speaking south
* Ike gives the south lots of military equipment, but north is still fighting an insurgent war.
* CIA rigs election to oust King and put in America's SOB,
* JFK gets into office, discovers Special Forces work really really well.
* Also continues building up South with conventional weapons...
Contd...
>>76353007
Ever hear about LBJ? He was a complete piece of shit. Look up the story of his Silver Star. Think about what a Great Society his programs created.
Kennedy approved of Diem's assassination a few weeks before his own, which was retarded. Even Uncle Ho thought so.
Then LBJ and the drones remaining from Kennedy's cabinet like Rusk and McNamera took over. Literally some of the dumbest MFs ever to hold power.
>>76353007
If you have the time, you must check out the long but good documentary series, The Ten Thousand Day War. It's exactly what you need and it is fascinating.
>What was the plan to win that war?
The plan was basically centered around constant small attacks that would overwhelm the VC supplies and manpower so that eventually it would be too costly of a war to support for the North.
The only way you can kill a snake is by cutting its head off, you couldn't have won in Vietnam without directly invading the North which is something we weren't willing to do so no.
>>76353007
>What was the plan to win that war?
Pound them into the dirt and wipe out any that run away
We did that
We literally beat them so bad they started running into china to get away and survive.
In 8 months flat of committing to full scale operations we had beat the NVC and other commie groups of viets in the country.
When they started pouring into China though China said fuck that noise only we are allowed to let in mass numbers of people into our country.
They went into their old playbook and did the exact same thing they did in Korea(for the exact same reasons) overwhelming munitions and soldier support without sight of any stopping.
Just like the Koreans have learned us all in Starcraft, no matter how good you are you WILL lose if the enemy never stops coming.
Eventually the people were upset that we were still fighting and the negative publicity and incurring backlash from normies finally seeing what happens in war for the first time turned them all into bleeding hearts and the politicians stopped giving them the okay on more troops and supplies.
With dwindling support money and troop wise as they weren't allowed to straight up draft mass amounts of people like they had at the height of the war(though 2/3 of all US servicemen in Vietnam actually signed up as opposed to WW2's 35%) they had to pull out since they had nothing left to fight with basically.
>tl;dr- America has never lost a war, we have only lost two proxy wars to China and that's only because we never were allowed to attack them because liberals are pussies
>inb4 adhomn and a bunch of euroshits who don't know what they're taking about try and refute the facts that I just issued because their history lessons are memes even when it comes to their own wars let alone ours.
Also JFK purposely started The Vietnam War
>>76360844
China tried 2 invade after the US left.
China got BTFO by Vietnam.
>>76361150
* America's SOB decides Bhuddist peasants are agents of Ho Chi Minh, starts going after them, this is why dude sets himself on fire
* U.S. hints the flow of stuff would continue if SOB gets whacked, which happens
* JFK gets whacked himself
* LBJ takes over, decides there need to be a lot more American troops there taking more active roles
* Chairman Mao: Hey LBJ, remember the Korean War? 'Nuff said.
* Breshnev: Hey LBJ, would be a shame if some of our techs got hurt in this war of yours
* Rolling Thunder is a half-assed job
* North keeps sending supplies down Ho Chi Minh and Sianook (Cambodia) trail. Launches massive attack during Tet in 1968
* Peasants don't rise up, South Vietnamese Army Does. Its a huge loss to the North but it gets spun as a loss because it happened
* LBJ decides not to run, JFK gets whacked, despite antiwar mood Dems put in the pro-war Vice President. Nixon wins because hippies
contd
>>76353007
The military didn't lose the war. The Homefront lost the war. Without the left and communists subverting the effort, the US Military could have completely mopped up Vietnam with little effort.
>>76353007
Basically Vietnam was a game of Control where the Americans had a ridiculous K/D ratio but still lost the game because they didnt hold any points. Then they ragequit because half their team left
>>76361658
my point
>>76361691
* Nixon re-discovers Special Forces, starts routing out bad guys
* Also starts handing over the reigns to South Vietnam
* Also starts massive bombing runs of North Vietnam, Laos. and Cambodia
* Cambodians get pissed, join Communist insurgent Pol Pot.
* Nixon starts drawing down troops because hippies
* Nixon bombs North Vietnam between winning re-election in 1972 and Congress taking over.
* COmes up with new peace treaty with Kissinger to GTFO, South Vietnam hates it but Nixon says no prob, we have massive air power
* Peace treaty kicks in, we get POWs back, more troops withdraw. South Vietmam still gets money and stuff.
* 1973 Arab-Israeli War and oil crisis means South Vietnam spends more on fuel which takes away critical supplies
* Nixon gets USSR and China to stop supplying North Vietnam (but they stockpiled, oops)
* Watergate happens, Nixon resigns
* Ford takes over, wants more funds for Vietnam. Congress not only says no but defunds fucking everything.
* Subsequently, Laos and Cambodia fall
* North invades with a conventional army, South flees and is routed, no air support forthcoming because Congress
* Ford finally gets funding for a quarter-assed evacuation. North wins
>>76360844
Yes then chine got the dick too
>>76362316
Finally
* U.S. completely and utterly LOST. Look at South Korea, we "won" there despite a draw
* No bloody purges, they need the soldiers who know how to maintain all the American shit kept alive
* Cambodia purges itself, and becomes a train wreck that Vietnam has to invade to fix them
* Laos goes totally Communist
* Lots of boat people
>>76353007
it ain't me
The Vietnam War ranks as one of the most pointless, costliest conflicts in history.
First of all, forget domino theory. Vietnam had fuck all to do with communism, no one believed in it, it was just a way to scam funds from China and Russia, etc.
Second, guess who's in charge of France during the Vietnam War? That's right, de Gaulle, French Asshole and Leading Cause of Most of Today's Modern Problems (aka post-World War II French colonialism). And guess who wanted to leave NATO during the height of the Cold War? That's right, de Gaulle dragged the US kicking and screaming into a colonial war because he wanted to hand Europe to the Soviets.
Third, the war was probably the most massive lie ever told to a country's citizens by its government. From the "Gulf of Tomkin Incident" to the daily casualty reports to the goddamn draft (of minorities and poor people because muh exemptions) the United States came closer to falling apart at the seams than any other time in history. This was when the US government started to fear its citizens more than it feared the Soviet Union. (Kent State massacre)
What's worse, Vietnam or Iraq
>>76362757
>Implying De Gaulle didn't want a French led "Third World" to balance the First and Second World, leading to France developing their own nuclear program, despite what England and the US told them.
WWII and it's aftermath weren't exactly a fun time for France. Maybe you'll understand once your empire falls.
>>76353007
It was a complete victory for arms manufacturers. I don't know what you expected victory to look like.
>>76363237
>Implying de Gaulle hadn't seen what an arms race did to England in the lead up to World War II as the Admiralty nearly bankrupted the country trying to keep up with America and Japan
He was obsessed with making France, a country utterly humiliated during WWII, a world power again. And he failed.
>>76363208
>What's worse, Vietnam or Iraq
In what context? I think Vietnam is more polarizing because it was a cornerstone of the new left movement of the 1960s. Iraq was pretty much what it was, America going to get its claim in the middle east. Both were equally bungled, but I think Vietnam was far more damaging to American society than Iraq was.
>>76363400
Better to try and fail then passively accept fate.
At least France has nuclear power and can believe it's a somewhat relevant country.
LBJ was the one who started the war with the Gulf of Tonkin, there was no real plan to win when we got into the war.
>>76353007
The US won every major military engagement in Vietnam. In terms of combat alone the war was a clear victory. Even the infamous Tet Offensive was a spectacular failure for the slants. The American media singlehandedly lost the war by destroying public opinion and refusing to tell the truth, which was an inevitable US victory. Instead they bombarded the American public with pictures of dead Americans and sowed panic while the Soviet espionage machine worked very successfully to further demoralize Americans.
>clear military victory
>media tells people the opposite is happening
>Soviets encourage the resulting anti war movement
>wa la
>>76363979
Won by killing civilians and counting them as combatants. But actually lost.
White people for you. Bringing destruction and death to all native peoples, for no reason at all.
>>76353234
^this
The objective wasn't a 2D idea of taking over a nation.
It was on several levels of dominance
>Military industrial complex
>Thinning out the massive baby boomer generation
>CIA drug operations
>Slowing communism
>Taking a massive presence in the SEA theater
Talk all you want about the failure of overt objectives (We still killed loads of the enemy with a high K:D), but many of the covert objectives were meet in the larger scheme of things.
>>76363979
>wa la
kill yourself
>>76353234
No you couldn't, not because of the Cold War but because of domestic forces. Johnson didn't want to send 2 million men to a war that was supposed to be gg 2ez.
>have half a million troops in Vietnam but using them would trigger a war
>>76364687
Low quality b8 m8
Where do thing we are, very low energy, sad!
>>76361341
Does anywhere on the internet talk of how his great society's Office of Economic Opportunity funneled arms to rioters and street gangs or is that relegated to newspaper archives?
>>76365264
Never thought about this point
>Thinning out the massive baby boomer generation
Makes sense. especially that they realized that there was brewing counterculture/retardation with them
>>76365264
>we lost on purpose
Ppfffttt
>>76356170
>crash course
The vietnam war was the first tangible casualty of liberal controlled mass media. Civilian casualties suddenly became a big issue when they weren't considered at all in any wars pre-korea. This alone altered our strategy so drastically that it was always a lost cause from the start.
