who disillusioned leftist here?
who's down to start the post alt-left movement?
>>76319164
I'm liberal but am voting conservative from now on. I hate spics. The only thing Democrats care about these days are spics. Need a left wing anti immigration party.
>>76319164
>alt-left
What's going to be your shtick?
Also, why not just board the Trump train?
>>76319164
Start it and tell us the tenets.
I was a left-wing nationalist once but then I realized leftism is a cancer no matter what. Just jump on the right-wing train already man.
>>76319164
I'll be as liberal as it gets forever. You niggers need to get a degree and stop shit posting on the internet. That's why you hate the left.
>>76319164
Fuck off berncuck, unchecked gov power wipes out countries and slaughters millions
The only person with your best interests at heart is you
Still think most republicans are retarded, but Trump might be the change we need. Even though if flips flops like a mutha.
Currently fed up with issues like BLM, extreme liberalism practices in school, and other things that are completely retarded from the far left.
>>76319478
>I'm liberal
>I hate spics
>>76319914
Too bad "liberals" aren't liberal and worship the government while trying to censor free speech then.
Classic liberalism is right wing now.
>>76319164
Bleeding heart liberal Clinton-voter here.
The commie and hippie tears are delicious.
>>76320035
I'm racist,and want less spics in the country,, but other than that i'm liberal.
>>76319900
this
>>76319164
>implying most members of the "alt-right" aren't just classical liberals
>>76319164
Good luck finding a quantum computer powerful enough to simulate that fantasy land.
>>76319690
I'm interested in rationalism, anarcho-syndicalism, and future-authoritarianism (efficient global communism enable by super advanced computers that are almost certainly coming). Highly pro free speech but mutualist, allowing traditional cultures to exist and maintain integrity via protected formalised co-operation with protected free exit.
Trump is a moron, being good at business does not whatsoever imply economic astuteness, he doesn't even believe climate change is credible which could have apocalyptic consequences.
>>76320378
So you like blacks, Muslims, trannies, and fags and have a disdain for firearms?
>>76320632
I don't need luck, it'll be made in probably five to eight decades. There's no reason not to prepare for that possibility.
>>76320688
>spout a bunch of pseudo intellectual utopia crap ignorant of human nature
>trump is a moron
*tips*
>>76320688
>anarcho-syndicalism
>future-authoritarianism
I forgot it's summer already.
>>76320816
It's not going to happen because the left will be swallowed up by non-white hordes. At this rate the fate of American elections will be decided by non-whites who will overwhelmingly vote for whatever liberal candidate panders to them.
>>76319164
Leftism is a disease, my man. Heal thyself.
>>76321142
and this will prevent IBM and Google from conducting research how?
>>76320816
>I don't need luck, it'll be made in probably five to eight decades
>Mfw
>>76321088
I don't know what else to think considering his policies and positions - nearly all of them that are notable are moronic.
>>76321142
And that's why anytime they try to loosen immigration you need to do whatever you can to turn public sentiment against it because women WILL vote for it.
GO PACK
>>76321420
there is plenty of criticism of mises calculation, even milton friedman didnt agree
>>76321445
>Saif the guy who thinks turning humanity into the Borg is a good idea
>>76321445
>protecting your border and sovereignty is moronic
>unfucking healthcare is moronic
>fixing bad trade deals is moronic
>>76321778
I don't assume it is, I just can't ignore the approaching possibility - it's something that has to be thought about seriously
>>76321761
>there is plenty of criticism of mises calculation, even milton friedman didnt agree
All of which has been shown wrong throughout history.
https://mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited
>Friedman
Has been wrong about much more than he was right about.
>>76321812
lol, unbelievable cherry picking and straw manning. don't even know where to start
>>76321308
Why would liberal, establishment politicians like Clinton, Schumer, Obama, etc. ever want to give up their control to a computer system, which is just fantasy at the moment anyways, when they can stay in power by pandering to non-whites as long as they can?
Your fantasy world has no chance of existing in the reality of political power struggles.
>>76321876
>I don't assume it is
Yes you do
>>76320688
>efficient global communism enable by super advanced computers that are almost certainly coming)
And all the other examples you give fail due to to calculation problem.
>>76322086
>ever want to give up their control to a computer system,
Why would anyone want to become slaves to a machine?
Is the proper question to ask.
>>76320688
>I'm interested in rationalism, anarcho-syndicalism, and future-authoritarianism (efficient global communism enable by super advanced computers that are almost certainly coming). Highly pro free speech but mutualist, allowing traditional cultures to exist and maintain integrity via protected formalised co-operation with protected free exit.
Holy shit this is the gayest shit I ever read here. Are you sure you're on the right board?
>>76321899
it's meant to debunk primitive forms of communist economics and there is no historical precedent for nations achieving wealth except through massive state protections and interventions i.e. state capitalism
the term socialism itself means 1,000 different things so to say this calculation alone is a terminal indictment of any and all non-austrian economic thought is retarded
>>76321876
It really doesn't, when you align your society to respect human nature as it was 50 years ago then you get very few speedbumps. It's when utopians try to fix things that weren't broken that everything goes to hell, e.g. europe
>>76319478
Why were you even liberal in the first place?
>>76320816
>implying his program can solve Zenos paradox, the smart mexican paradox, the useful niger paradox , the safe muslim paradox, and the lovely feminist paradox.
You must work for tumblr with those coding skillz
>>76319478
This desu. Liberal. The left however has become some kind of twisted monster that I dont recognize anymore. I'm voting for Trump, for America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rux-g-xmvUs
>>76322344
>it's meant to debunk primitive forms of communist economics and there is no historical precedent for nations achieving wealth except through massive state protections and interventions i.e. state capitalism
Quite literally everything you said is objectively and historical wrong.
> so to say this calculation alone is a terminal indictment of any and all non-austrian economic thought is retarded
Considering that isnt the point of the calculation problem no you are retarded.
The calculation problem is a very real tangible problem that is inherent to any centrally planned system.
>>76319164
Leftists' ideals can't be met because they won't be racist and keep third-worlders from destroying their socialist utopias. They won't be racist because then they'd look a little too much like Nazis, which they are terrified of becoming.
This is why people who don't care if they look like Nazis accomplish more towards leftist ideals (through different means) than they ever do.
>>76321994
It really is fucking summer, go kill yourself idiot
>>76322106
I said I was interested in future-autoritarianism, that includes monarchism and fascism as well but I am intrigued by the possibility that superhuman technology can disrupt fundamental channels of economic communication so powerfully that it may be possible. Mises never dreamed of nanomachines printing atoms, or mind reading scanners, markets will not always be needed as a form of data collection on a populations needs for goods. I also don't see why a generally planned economy would have to ban private enterprise altogether, why can't more efficient forms of state capitalism exist?
>>76319164
>alt-left
It's called regressive neo-liberalism.
>>76322429
Why would you not be? Consumerism and corporate greed are ruining our country, promoting degeneracy, multiculturalism and mass immigration. Also, why would you believe workers have no rights?
>>76322700
>. I also don't see why a generally planned economy would have to ban private enterprise altogether
Because any form of private economy is undermining centrally planned systems.
> why can't more efficient forms of state capitalism exist?
State capitalism has never once been more efficient than any form of free enterprise anywhere in the world at any time.
>>76322353
I can't make sense of that. Socialism like Capitalism is such a signal heavy phrase, you don't bullet by bullet know exactly what positions a person holds by identifying as one of those things. Capitalism isn't a monolith either - Hoppe, Romney, Friedman, Trump, Hayek, etc. There is certainly diversity in socialist thought as well
>>76322700
Fuck off back to >reddit, don't trip on your trenchcoat on the way out you fedora tipping sandal squishing fuck
I hate the /pol/ meme that liberalism is synonymous with multiculturalism. It's not. It just isn't.
Most liberals in this country aren't self-hating white-guilt TRIGGER WARNING caricatures. Of course it looks ridiculous if you get all your information on liberalism from Tumblr.
>>76322929
>>76322700
>markets will not always be needed as a form of data collection on a populations needs for goods
Also yes they will because humans aren't empty headed mindless eaters
We have infinite wants and Entirely subjective and illogical wants.
Take an example of Stradivarius violins or any other historical item that is impossible to recreate.
Items like this will always necessitate a market force to determine value because it is quite literally impossible no matter the computational power to place a value on such objects.
>>76323374
You guys are a serious minority though. The Democratic Party has been taken over by limp-wristed whites and non-whites.
>>76322652
It's too late, they have brown shirts to beat up and harass their political opponents for disagreeing already, they just went the reverse into globalist socialism rather than natsoc.
Expect a trump supporter to get murdered for their beliefs before the year is out.
>>76322929
If the intention of the central plan is to regulate minimum economic channels like protection for contract law etc and allow forms of private economy exist, then that literally doesn't undermine the plan. State capitalism is a form of central planning - it can't possibly be undermined by its own intentions, that's stupidity.
>>76322588
>The problem referred to is that of how to distribute resources rationally in an economy. The free market solution is the price mechanism, wherein people individually have the ability to decide how a good or service should be distributed based on their willingness to give money for it. The price conveys embedded information about the abundance of resources as well as their desirability which in turn allows, on the basis of individual consensual decisions, corrections that prevent shortages and surpluses; Mises and Hayek argued that this is the only possible solution, and without the information provided by market prices socialism lacks a method to rationally allocate resources.
This certainly goes out the window if machines can read your mind. There would almost certainly be a possibility of new ways of determining a rate of interest/pricing system for goods.
Apparently this is proven because the USSR used global capital pricing systems because they were more reliable, but there were certainly no states practicing laissez-faire capitalism or anything even resembling it - state capitalism is the historical reality in this case. Again, you're assuming I'm all on board for some kind of techno-stalinism and that just isn't the case, I just don't see how Mises calculation makes it certain that no possible development in technology could disrupt economic methodology.
There doesn't seem to be any convergence of belief that this particular problem was the most significant in the collapse of historical socialist economies.
>>76323564
I think that's totally possible, but I'm not willing to right now discount all possibilities of the impact future technology could have on economic planning. What if markets can be simulated and then reproduced in meatspace? Why do markets have to exist in utter freedom from regulation or state regulation? Which country is it exactly that obtained wealth and success through total laissez-faire economics? There's no historical example of that of which I am aware
>>76324231
In addition, if governments don't force the private industry to adhere to stricter environmental regulations the human race might not survive the next 100 years, so I'd say that is more important than ensuring that the national economic structure maximizes wealth (for who or for what purpose is unclear) as much as possible.
>>76323596
you made a lot of great arguments lad
>>76319164
I was a ron paul rightist, but desu myself and 90% of my friends put down such childish things and we are now 100% Bernie, and 100% democratic socialist.
>>76319164
"The problem with the Left is different. It is good when it opposes the capitalist order, but it lacks a spiritual dimension. The Left usually represents itself as an alternative path to modernization, and in doing so it also opposes organic values, traditions and religion, just as liberalism does.
I would be happy to see Left-wing identitarians who defend social justice while attacking capitalism on one hand, and who embrace spiritual Tradition and attack modernity on the other. There is only one enemy: the global, liberal capitalist order supported by North American hegemony (which is also directed against the genuine American identity)."
>>76319164
right-wingers get out da way!
>>76320688
>>76322889
Damn son, good points. I feel like so many people are so close to full-blown national socialists at this point. Can't say I would blame them.
>>76324930
>I feel like so many people are so close to full-blown national socialists at this point.
Remember kids, life exists outside of /pol/
>>76319164
We no longer have the luxury of the Left-Right paradigm. It has no aligned vertically between Authoritarianism and Anarchy. I think poll knows which one the right choice is.
>>76324231
>it can't possibly be undermined by its own intentions, that's stupidity.
No that is reality.
In the form of the various Soviet purges.
Private economic activity undermines every aspect of centralized planning.
The very idea since conception behind central planning goes as far as its name.
A Central plan to determine use of resources.
Private forces being introduced to said plan adds infinite variables on top of an already practically infinite variable equation.
> This certainly goes out the window if machines can read your mind
Again we aren't mindless feeders.
This idea applies to basic needs but when the infinite desire of the human mind is introduced and especially for things that cannot be replicated even by Star trek tier replicator technology the need for the price system and markets arise.
And this again brings back up the point of the Borg and being slaves to a machine.
> but there were certainly no states practicing laissez-faire capitalism or anything even resembling it
The greatest examples of wealth creation in human history have been in places that have been the closest to practicing lassiez faire policies.
And by the by mercantilism isn't related to state capitalism you buzz phrase spewing nig>>76324383
>What if markets can be simulated and then reproduced in meatspace?
Then that is just a high tech form of a market.
>Why do markets have to exist in utter freedom from regulation or state regulation?
Markets are what exist when people are free from such things you dense turd.
Markets are simply the manifestation of people doing voluntary business amongst themselves.
I'm very disillusioned. Hyprocrisy from both the Democratic and Green parties and the rise of identity politics and social justice warriors ruined the left for me.
I wouldn't say that I'm conservative or libertarian now. I'm more of a centrist independent.
In addtion to my negative personal experiences, /pol/ also contributed to my everpresent and still growing disillusionment with the left.
>worship a National Socialist
>bash socialism of any kind
Explain this shit to me /pol/
>>76324476
>if governments don't force the private industry to adhere to stricter environmental regulations the human race might not survive the next 100 years,
No
Just
No
Easily 90% of environmental regulation since the first standards put into place when the EPA was first founded are nothing more than to squeeze money from the tax payers or to act as protectionism for certain business interest.
They serve nothing more than to drain the wealth of wealthy nations and to kill people in poor and developing nations that need cheap energy for basic survival.
>>76325533
I'm just about in your exact boat, maybe a little more liberal though.
>>76325648
particular historical regulations being ineffective is irrelevant
>>76325250
Anarchy first, then authoritarianism, then anarchy again, etc.
the only right way
>>76326460
>particular historical regulations being ineffective is irrelevant
It isn't about it being ineffective it is about the perverse and corrupt incentives they create.
Also
>Just because men have jumped off this cliff trying to fly and all have failed doesn't mean you won't fail as well
>>76320202
Clinton voter here too. It's exhausting to hide my power level on /pol/ all the time.
>>76320688
Holy shit
>>76327227
That's it I'm #withher now
>>76320688
you are the biggest faggot ever.
>>76325576
Modern socialism has been co-opted by open border faggots and globalists. National Socialism of Hitlers time is dead and attempts to revive it are dea on the water becasue of said co-opting
>>76320688
To peer into the mind of an autist
>>76327713
Nationalist socialism with reasonable immigration isn't the same as National Socialism believe it or not. It's much more common than you think. Despite their flaws, China is doing some impressive shit.
>>76325576
Hilter's Germany was not socialist. It's just a misleading name.
>>76320688
>efficient global communism enable by super advanced computers that are almost certainly coming
t. Without intelligence of computers
>>76328119
The 25 points plan or however many it was, was socialism through and through. The Nazis practiced a form of state socialism.
>>76320688
This is another thing that has disillusioned me.
Far-left fantasies that have no relevant or practical application to our everyday lives.
Shit like this will NEVER happen, and it it did it would be through war or terrorism, never via peaceful means. The "revolution" will backfire, as they always do.
>>76320688
Chromosome game strong
>>76327047
so what happens then? private industries the world over cooperate to prevent environmental catastrophy?
>>76328262
well, that's what makes mutualism interesting, I don't want to see another cultural revolution trampling humanity underfoot in the name of righteousness either. It's actually very difficult to imagine any kind of ethically wise path to large scale systemic changes in governance
>>76328454
>private industries the world over cooperate to prevent environmental catastrophy?
Government getting out of the way of energy development solves the problem itself.
Besides your entire premise is false.
We aren't facing some Al gore tier environmental disaster you mong.
>>76320688
pic related
its you
>>76328706
i don't agree with the latter statement at all. theres nothing to talk about if youve presupposed that environmental calamity is not oncoming, you'd have to convince me of that first.
>>76328782
good effort, none of those words are even big buddy
>>76328907
t. big words make me smart
>>76319164
I was in my mid 20s too.
>>76328849
>i don't agree with the latter statement at all
That's your problem if you've took the antihumanist propaganda hook line and sinker.
Start here
https://youtu.be/Iwca_KH7Uc4
>>76328688
So how do you propose the make this mutualism work?
Where do you begin?
What makes you think everyday people would want mutualism?
How would it make sense to everyday people who have better things to do than wring their hands over something like that?
>>76319164
>who disillusioned leftist here?
That's quite the tautology you have there. Disillusioned nihilism? You want a centralized tyranny to impose its fascism on everyone and everything... faster? Slower?
>>76328262
Fucking this.
Once I started getting tired of/realising that every single fucking scandal that hits the left is scaffolds ontop of scaffolds of intellectual masturbation, I was fucking done with it.
Either it works or it doesn't people. Just because an answer is complicated and it makes you feel good, both emotionally, and because you "understand it's complexity", doesn't mean it is right.
Quit attacking 2nd ammendment and start buying guns.
>>76319164
Same. I'm anti-immigration and pro-gun but pretty far left socially and economically.
It makes no fucking sense to have a socialist welfare state with open borders. Just fuck my shit up, third worlders.
There's no political party for logical libs.
>>76331470
I know that exact feel bro
>>76320688
>>76322106
>>76322700
>>76323564
>>76324383
>>76325364
Going to interrupt your bullshit debate on the fact this was tried by the soviets like 5 times and Failed.
Humans are too god damn chaotic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet-type_economic_planning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2BgMu32Yuk
It never fucking worked, EVER.
