1st for WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK
http://www.strawpoll.me/10412158

I'm remaIN'.

When are votings over in america? When is president decided?

Idgaf bout england cause sandnigger took over london you all are doomed

Voting leave. The sitting back and watching Eurabia burn as more country's want to leave.

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Watching the Victoria Derbyshire debate that was on this morning, the remain side are pure autists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07f493c/victoria-derbyshire-the-eu-debate

>>76278404
So... we're expecting a 5000% mail voter turnout, right?

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WORKIN
LEARIN
VOTIN (vote IN)

>>76279226

Haha the nu-male got blow the fuck away by the patriotic black guy.

You could see him visibly shaking when the camera panned round.

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Shill. It. HARD. At worst it will turn off females thinking about voting Remain

The GMB general secretary, who backs Remain, told the union's annual conference: "Priti Patel, surely a contradiction in her name..."

http://news.sky.com/story/1707747/union-leader-accused-of-making-sexist-eu-jibe

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>all these feminists
They better not vote to stay in

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>>76280642
VOTIN SO YOU CAN KEEP RAVIN' AND SAVIN' AND CRAVIN' AND BEHEADIN'

oh, thanks for reminding me
I'm voting for remain btw

>>76279226

I couldn't watch it, things like this and Question Time make me physically angry.

How many cardiac arrests and strokes over the years has Question Time caused due to raised blood pressure?

>>76280729

Europeans can't vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120

>>76280691
OF COURSE THEY WILL YOU FUCKING NUMBSKULL

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Reminder for the terminally-retarded:

The only part of the EU that we get to directly elect is the European Parliament. The EU Parl do not get to initiate, alter or reject legislation. They merely rubber-stamp it. In this regard, the EU is no more democratic than the Soviet and Chinese council systems, so stop using 'but we vote for MEPs' as your argument that this most anti-democratic of organisations is something to be praised.

Similarly, you are fond of pointing out that the Queen and the House of Lords are not elected either. This merely demonstrates your lack of understanding. Old Brenda and the Lords cannot introduce legislation, and thus there is no comparison. Yes, the Lords can and have blocked legislation and sent it back to the Commons, but the Commons can then initiate the 1949 Parliament Act to push legislation through.

There is no comparison between our head of state & upper chamber and the unelected, anti-democratic, unaccounted dictatorship that is the European Union.

>>76280773
don't tell me what to do

>>76280784
I suppose we'd still be living in wooden ramparts to this day had old William not invaded 1000 years ago, right lads? Better import a million more pakis.

>>76278722
November 8th

I work in FX and have to work at 2am on the morning after the vote.

I hope you're happy, you heartless pricks. Is democracy really worth doing something so cruel as making me feel quite tired?

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>>76280759

>He has never seen clips from "Free Speech"

Mate, you don't even know nightmare fuel.

https://youtu.be/lErO9lp201Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3BL6pbP7FM

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>>76280784
>we was invaded in the past
>so it's okay if we get invaded in the future
>people in the past could defend their country from said invaders
>but we can't lol

>>76280777
>Immigrants are the same thing
>William the conquerer invented castles

The remain crowd is truly teaching me some shit I didn't know before.

>>76278773
Oh wait you're a faggot nm

>>76280776

Military coup when?

>>76280784
Invasion = Immigration

What?...

We actually lost 1066 because we were actually fighting off savages in the north too, because the Norsemen were raiding us.

>>76280784
Oh I get it, so a superior power invaded us and gave us better technology and we should be grateful about it. *cough* *cough*

>>76280784
Castles are overrated, I'll take a nice bridge over a castle any day

>>76281340
Underrated comment of the century

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>>76280976
Hitchens defends one of the cornerstones of British liberty
>no reaction
Casual sexism is bad!
>WILD APPLAUSE

>>76278404
What do you guys think of this documentary?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqDtL3k

>>76278404

Honest question - what will you do if the country votes to leave and the result is overturned by parliament or by the PM?

There is no written constitution in Britain, only a series of conventions and traditions, all depending upon precident and being upheld by those in power. What parts of the constitution are written down are only upheld as long as it's conventional to do so.

There is no written legal document in the British constitution that the outcome of a referendum has to be abided by - we have referendum's as a form of consulting the population before the Queen gives royal ascent (in this case Parliament acts on behalf of the Crown) but due to having a constitutional monarch, no referendum can have binding power (as that would mean that the Crown-in-Parliament isn't truly sovereign and Britain would be a de facto republic) and only convention dictates that the Crown should abide the result of a referendum.

So what happens if/when we vote to leave, and big international vested interests (NATO, the yanks, private equity firms and hedge funds, banks, the EU etc) tell the PM "you can't do this" and he announces that the outcome of the referendum will be ignored, pending some "last minute deal" from the EU. The Queen will come on TV, read out a statement prepared for her by the Govt, telling the public to abide by the government's decision and that she cannot give royal ascent to a decision that would harm the country so severely. Despite knowing her private views, pro-EU Tory pundits will hail Her Majesty and talk about how wonderful our constitution is to allow the Queen to intervene to prevent disaster, whilst UKIP'ers and the Boris Johnson faction of the Tories seeth. Be interesting to see how Labour would respond to such an outcome - but what about the general public? Would they just shrug and carry on business as usual? What about you, Brit/pol/?

I have no confidence that the outcome of the vote will be respected

>>76281410
>one of the cornerstones of British liberty
No one in my generation knows any of that.
I only found out by educating myself.

Political teaching is limited to parties and institutions; history teaching is limited to the suffragettes, the rise of Hitler and the Holocaust.

We are so indescribably fucked. It's like when people have to re-learn ancient trades that have died out.

>>76278404
God speed

>>76281586
1970s Harold Wilson style coup by the British Army organised by wealthy media owners on the right. There is no appetite at all within the British armed forces for the European Union.

>>76281586
The British government has never had the balls to do that. They won't grow them for this election.

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>>76280691

>>76280759
>>76279226
They really need to ban applause/cheering at these things.

it turns it into "who can do the best one liner and/or righteous anger that makes no sense" instead of actual discussion.

>>76281586
> Tory backbenchers crash the government.

> General Election - new parliament honours the referendum (or face the same fate).

> Tories are never elected in this country again.

>>76281586
simple answer: Vote of no confidence that the public supports, ala 1979.

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>>76281803
>UKIP proceeds to get the majority

Who could vote to remain?

It's like letting someone fuck you in the ass

>>76281671
>1970s Harold Wilson style coup by the British Army organised by wealthy media owners on the right.

The problem is with this scenario is that establishment (or at least the right-wing of it) were united against 70's Labour and Wilson. They also had the support of powerful factions within the CIA giving them support.

Today the right is split and the conditions are very different. The big money you would need to finance a coup, to fund a para-state apparatus, is on the side of remain. The big banks want us in, the Confederation of British Industry want us in. If you're gonna have a military coup you need your big industrialists and financiers to back it with serious money or it will die in it's crib.

As for the Army, don't put your faith there. Firstly cos NATO is pro-EU and the commanders know it. The pressure there will come from outside, the Yanks in other words, who would worry that Britain outside the EU would be a strategic win for Putin, and who have more influence in the top ranks of our Army than most patriots would care to admit.

As for the soldiers themselves - some might, but most won't. They need paying. The state pays their wages. All that money, those gold-plated pensions, all the rest of the perks - all gone. We have a professional army for a reason. Unless the money men are on side (which they aren't) you're not gonna be able to fund an maintain any armed force strong enough to seize power in the way you want. They'd get crushed.

There might not be much appetite for the EU amongst the British armed forces, but there's no much appetite for not getting paid either.

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>>76281742
Reads like a who's who of most / least cucked areas & people.

>>76281586
Immediate vote of no confidence or the British Army would fucking coup d'état.

>>76278980
if they give us a shitty enough deal no other country will want to leave

>>76281410
>you will never be an old money farmer in kent or surrey who owns a shot gun and a loyal hound
I-I don't like wearing earth tones anyway

>Pro-Remain MPs are considering using their Commons majority to keep Britain inside the EU single market if there is a vote for Brexit, the BBC has learned.
The MPs fear a post-Brexit government might negotiate a limited free trade deal with the EU, which they say would damage the UK's economy.
There is a pro-Remain majority in the House of Commons of 454 MPs to 147.
A Vote Leave campaign spokesman said MPs will not be able to "defy the will of the electorate" on key issues.
The single market guarantees the free movement of goods, people, services and capital.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120

>The single market guarantees the free movement of goods, people, services and capital.
>The single market guarantees the free movement of people, services and capital.
>The single market guarantees the free movement of people and capital.
The single market guarantees the free movement of people

Wew lad Dodgy Dave is going to fuck us over regardless

>>76281978
Wouldn't even need to be them, just preferable.

Comrade Corbyn could seize the opportunity, promise to honour it and we end up with him. We all know he's anti-EU anyway.

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>>76278680
>paki.

>>76281803
>Tory backbenchers crash the government.

It's hard to say if that's even possible - for a start the Tory backbenchers would have to be bold enough to turn their backs on a sitting Tory cabinet. Then, assuming they'd have the numbers, they'd have to navigate the fixed term parliaments act. The Tories could form a coalition with the DUP + Lib Dems meaning they'd need to be 30 Tory MP's prepared to throw their political careers away. Even if they hate him, most of the brexiters will stay in the party and fight for it rather than break discipline like that, since without the party they'd be fucked. You can only rely on their self-interest.

>>76281803
>Tories are never elected in this country again.
>>76281978
>>UKIP proceeds to get the majority

Hell of a risk to take when you have Corbyn leading the Labour party. It's not impossible, if the Tory vote collapses as a result of this, that Labour would sneak ahead of the Tories and UKIP and cobble together a coalition with the SNP.

And that's the thing about the far-left - they only need to get into power once...

>>76282016
>2016
>gold-plated pensions
mfw

>Labour going full communist

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/john-mcdonnell-labour-universal-basic-income-welfare-benefits-compass-report

>Labour taking a close look at universal basic income

>>76282041
>>76281742

>only the old uneducated and uninterested support brexit
about right

>>76281983
you mean like we did?

>>76282329
> It's hard to say if that's even possible

Half the Cabinet is campaigning for brexit, Cameron let them drop collective responsibility. A third of the party wants out. Labour is being lead by a communist who's campaigned against the EU for his entire political career. You don't think these people will crash the government with no survivors if they ignore the will of the people?

> Hell of a risk to take when you have Corbyn leading the Labour party.

Thats EXACTLY why your scenario won't happen. The Tory party is not about to let Cameron kill their party for good and hand Britain over to a communist. It just will not happen.

>>76282135
>Comrade Corbyn could seize the opportunity, promise to honour it and we end up with him. We all know he's anti-EU anyway.

This is another very important thing to keep in the back of your mind. If the Tories try to derail the referendum, back in the days of Blair you might've expected Labour to support a move, for "national interest" or whatever, but there's no way in hell Corbyn would play a part in that and he would be ideally positioned to win support off it.

There's a lot of anger in the Labour party about Corbyn, who's chosen a policy of "keep your head down and watch the Tories rip each other to shreds" which is quite wise. The Blairites want him to be side-by-side campaigning with Cameron to stay in, but Corbyn knows that would destroy him within the party (which is partly why the Guardianista want it to happen) and also, he's a eurosceptic, always has been, he's simply trying to keep the peace in his own party and so if/when we do leave the EU, all the mess that follows it (it will be messy) will be blamed on the Tory party, not him. An unusually astute move for Corbyn imo.

>>76282639

I don't think Corbyn is that cunning. I still think he's an MI5 plant.

>>76282493
>You don't think these people will crash the government with no survivors if they ignore the will of the people?

No, I don't think it's gaurenteed. Some will, but most are venal self-interested Tory hacks, they're not going to make a move against the Tory government if it costs them their seats or costs the Tories their majority. In fact, most of them won't do anything that would threaten their promotion prospects. Just cos 100 or so Tory MP's are pro-brexit doesn't mean you'll be able to get majority of them to bring down a Tory govt.

>>76282493
>Thats EXACTLY why your scenario won't happen

You have to weigh that against the interests of the City though. They're already trialling various ways wriggling out of the outcome if it goes against them in the media, just floating them out there as idle speculation.

>>76282795
He doesn't have to be cunning, he just has to be genuine and regardless of how batshit insane he is he's always been genuine.
He's staying out of it because he's obliged to support remain but really doesn't want to. Personal motivations that just happen to look like sound strategy.

As opposed to Teresa May who has kept her head down deliberately because it'll help her chances at a power grab once Cameron is forced out

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>>76282115
i used to go on shoots with my uncle when i was a kiddo, the only people who could afford it were farmers, doctors and lawyers. everyone was right wing and very sensible, it was great. qt girls in tweed are a real turn-on too.

>ywn have a country estate and a hereditary title

Inb4 the eldritch horrors of EU open their mouths and whisper "vote again."
It will happen and I know YOU know it will happen. Once it happens, what will you do? What can be done to get UK out?
Vote again 127 times, until the men in Brussels give up and let you go?

>>76282946

>As opposed to Teresa May who has kept her head down deliberately because it'll help her chances at a power grab once Cameron is forced out

Hmm I've never really thought about her, but you are right shes keeping a low profile at the moment and not been very vocal for a Minister who is supposed to be in the Remain camp.

Wonder how long it will take for Cameron to be forced out?

>>76282904
Even if they didn't, which I think is a huge IF, they'd be dealing with riots until 2020 when they'd all lose their seats anyway. The Tories would be finished in this country, and the Euroskeptic Tories know that. That's why they'd turn on Cameron like a pack of dogs, and Corbyn will have the entire Labour party behind them in a vote of no confidence because of the promise of seizing power in a GE at perhaps Labour's weakest point in history.

At that point things would be so up in the air even the Greens could get in.

>>76282357
You can see the political calculation from a Labour point of view.

>>76278404
Registered to vote, had to do it in person because I'm living in Northern Ireland (originally form England).
Ready to vote leave, and be done with this degenerate mud invasion, take back control of our borders.

>>76278404
Voted to stay, so I can travel easier. Come at me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120

Looks like we'll probably still have open boarders at this rate, making all this talk of immigration pointless.

>>76283328
ye wudnt wont 2 lose my visa fre trvl 2 da eu now wud i how els am i goin 2 go 2 shagaluf xD

>>76283328

Choosing convenient tyranny is one of the idiotic things to do.

>>76281586
we have no constitution because it is assumed the people will revolt.

>>76283167
>riots if brexit is denied

don't be ridiculous, the closet conservative majority are not the type to riot, that's what brown people and unemployed leftist subhumans do. there will be mild discontent for a few weeks before all the brexiters get busy with work again and can't afford to spend time protesting, then that will be that.

>>76283381
no one else seems to understand this

>>76283167
>even the Greens could get in
Don't push it anon
Lib Dems maybe

>>76281742
>UKIP supporters aren't 100% leave.
How does that work?

>>76278404
I'm not voting.

>>76283167
>Even if they didn't, which I think is a huge IF, they'd be dealing with riots until 2020 when they'd all lose their seats anyway

Well there's no gaurentee of riots. And these people have a calculation to make - do with stick with it and hope by 2020 it sorts itself out, or do I make a move now and risk backing the losing side?

>The Tories would be finished in this country

That's been said before, but the fact is the Tory party has been the most successful political party in any major western european state over the last 150 years, it has managed to stay together through wars and recessions, through from the days of being the political wing of the landed gentry to being the political wing of the City of London, MP's know this and they don't turn their backs and walk away from it unless they know for sure they are going to win.

And who's to say Corbyn would be able to get the entire Labour party behind him in a vote of no confidence? What if Corbyn wants to let the Tories linger on, more and more unpopular by the day, until 2020? What if the Labour right, scared that Corbyn might actually win if the Tories and UKIP are split (and in a FPTP system that can be lethal) keep backing the Tory govt - hoping to buy time for a leadership challenge to put Dan Jarvis or Chuka Ummuna in position to benefit instead of Corbyn?

It's such a fucking mess there's so many ways this could break. Prediction is very risky business, and assumption.

>>76283431
Preferable to inconvenient tyranny tbqh.

>>76283441
The working class are one of our largest demographics.

>>76283437
>we have no constitution because it is assumed the people will revolt.#
>it is assumed

And what happens when that doesn't happen?

I wouldn't put too much faith in assumption at this political moment - a lot of assumptions are proving themselves to be incorrect lately.

>>76283441

British people are normally very calm but if it wan an issue like leaving the EU and the decision is made to overturn the outcome of a democratic referendum then it would push people over the edge.

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Anyone who publically says they're undecided inevitably ends up voting remain. These cucks just use that position to start a conversation where they always "win".

>>76283531
> Lib dems destroyed over betraying voters on tuition fees.
> Tories will survive ignoring a referendum they promised to honour.

Please.

It won't come to this. Cameron would have weaseled out of allowing the referendum if he wanted to play this game. It would have been a lot safer, but even that might have killed the Tories.

I got a card in the mail with my name on it, it told me when the date to vote was and where my nearest voting station is, my parents received one too

does this mean I'm enrolled?

We will vote to remain and there will be no riots at all.

Stop living in fantasy land - this population is passified beyond belief.

>>76283789
Yes

>>76283789
Yep

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>>76280976
>does a great speech about law and justice
>no applause
>"thats victim blaming, rape culture"
>"were one of the most sexist countries because of casual sexism"
>massive huge fuck off applause

are these people actually fucking retarded or what?

>>76283722
>Cameron would have weaseled out of allowing the referendum if he wanted to play this game

You're maybe over-estimating Cameron here.

Think about it - he wasn't expecting a majority, or to actually have this referendum. He was expecting another coalition, and the referendum was something he was expecting to negotiate away to stay in power. He wasn't expecting to have to go through with it.

Now he is, he could've wriggled out of it, but he must've calculated that the damage wriggling out of it would do would be too high, and that with a big dose of Project Fear (which worked well in Scotland and at the General Election) he'd be able to convince enough pensioners and homeowners they'd lose their pensions/houses/savings etc to win.

The difference is though, unlike Project Fear 1.0 in Scotland and 2.0 in the General Election, the media is not united behind the Tories, and the people they're trying to frighten into voting Remain (elderly people) are the ones most likely to vote, and they tend to back Leave. Young people are the key hope to getting Remain to stay, but with a Labour party not playing ball and with 800,000 people (overwhelmingly young) no longer registered, getting those young people to vote is going to be hard.

The fear tactics Cameron was relying on to win the referendum work on the elderly better than the young, and require a compliant media to be totally united. Leave will end up winning I think, purely because the Express and Mail etc have been able to frigthen their base into voting more effectively than Cameron has been at frightening the young into turning out and voting for the EU.

The only interface between the state and the people, the fabric of the social contract, is fear. That's the only political currency there is left, and it looks to me like the laws of diminishing reutrns is kicking in and it isn't going to work.

Just admit it, Scotland/Wales/N. Ireland are going to tip the vote into Remain.

You guys are doomed.

>>76284234
Wales leans eurosceptic, no that it matters.

>>76283452
It's still a good thing to vote out simply to secure democracy.
But it will probably go under the radar and immigration won't be mentioned again and we will have been fucked over by the government.

>>76284234
there are only about 10 people in wales and ni. scotland is smaller than london in population. there is no proportional voting in a referendum. no bending over for sco buggery with over representation.

These polls putting leave ahead are the worst thing that could happen to the brexit campaign.

It will mobilize remain voters to get out and vote and it will make leavers complacent

>>76284234

Wales is very Eurosceptic.

>>76284691

Normally you'd be right but the problem there is it's the young that are the most likely to vote Remain, and they're the least likely to vote. I don't think it will make much different to the sort of people who are default pro-EU (rather, scared of change) but don't play close attention to politics and polls.

>>76284691
Alternatively it will widen acceptance of the Leave position and people will be less scared of voicing support for Leave (currently pro-Leave is synonymous for being a racist xenophobe)

>>76283245
> he thinks politicians will stop the invasion

>>76278404
Can't wait for the last-hours fear campaign.

>we have it on good authority that everyone will die if you tick "leave" in the next 24 hours plz think of the chitlins

>>76280784

Well hes right to make the link between current immigration and invasion

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHxKV04NqW8

>>76283705
Sadly true, although I hold out hope that some undecideds are just too scared to reveal their power level and go full LEAVE in front of their friends

>>76284234
Reminder that Welsh derives from a Latin word meaning slave.

>>76282041

>that skinny finger

>>76283574
They're also the least educated and easily manipulated by scare tactics and the liberal media

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>>76284234

Nah, Wales aren't big fans of the EU

>>76285522
so were they manipulated and scared into voting for the eec in the first place?

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>>76284234
I'm Scottish and voting to remain in

>mfw

>>76285522
>They're also the least educated and easily manipulated by scare tactics and the liberal media

That would be homeowning white pensioners and the right-wing media, the working-class comes a distant second in that regard.

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>>76285782
>wants to leave the UK
>wants to stay in the EU

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>>76285782
nice meme

>>76285749

The media at the time was united behind us joining the EEC, as was the City and British capitalism. Different story now.

>>76285498
Actually it doesn't

The Romans called the West of Britain Welch
or something like that. .. it meant Foreigners.

Something to do with the fact that England had a West/East divide when it came to Language.

The East of England had a language not dissimilar to that of the Gauls in France, whereas the West was alien to them.

>>76285694
Wales isnt fond of the UK

>>76285782
i wish we could have voted in your referendum. you would be completely on your arses now.

saying that your best chance at independence is voting out. are you cucked or are you a nigger?

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>>76285920
>implying wales isn't loyal to crown and country

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>>76285920
Back again eh?

>>76285782
>scucks voting away the future of their country just to spite the english
checks out

>>76285920
They are Ok with the UK . . .. . . they are not as petty as the Irish or the Scots.

According to the betting markets there is a 32% chance of Brexit.

>>76285782

Don't worry you can take England's share of Merkels rapefugees in October.

>>76285920
wales isnt fond of england. but really if we closed the post office and kicked you out none of you would have any jobs. what the fuck else do you have there other than sheep

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Latest YouGov poll has trust in @Nigel_Farage increasing, trust in Cameron & Corbyn spiralling downwards

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hkfno5n9fo/GMB_Results_160603_UndecidedVoters_Website.pdf

>MFW

>>76286051
It was at 14% a few days ago... Give us time

>>76285920
That's not true at all
Most Welshmen are good sturdy monarchists with a healthy distrust of pakis and slavs
Unfortunately they also vote Labour because MUH MINES MUH UNIONS MUH MILK SNATCHER

>>76286097
Hey, hey.

We don't hate England, only during the rugby.

>>76286112

It wasn't quite that low - it hit a rock bottom 16% for an hour but then went back up to 20%.

>>76285498
>Reminder that Welsh derives from a Latin word meaning slave.
>>76285913

Wallia just means "foreign" and is the name given to barbarous tribes. This means Wales and Cornwall in the UK, in Europe Wallonia (now part of Belgium) and the state of Wallachia (think that's in Bulgaria these days but not sure)

>>76286051
>According to the betting markets there is a 32% chance of Brexit.

People should've put a bet on Brexit last week, the odds were amazing.

Still time for it to change tho. A politically orchestrated run on sterling in the week leading up to the vote, followed by a "your pension/house value will be destoyed if you vote to leave the EU" might well salvage it.

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You might bloody do it, lads.
Leave are still holding in there in the polls, a week into June.
Things are spicing up.

We need Boris to do some debates. The more coverage Boris gets, the better.

>>76286051
better than the 20% they had last week. also 80% of the bets being made are betting on brexit.

>>76286209
>This means Wales and Cornwall in the UK
NO.

It was the whole of the West mate, I am from Somerset, so I have researched this pretty well.

The Cornish isolation was well after the Romans left and during the Anglo-axon period, were their language survived for a bit and then died out!

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>>76286320

Remainian (i.e. voting remain) here. Ask me anything.

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>>76286335
Britain's coming home.

>>76286435
Why?

>>76286435
nice b8 m8

>>76286171
This desu
Welsh '''''hate''''' for the English isn't like Scottish hate for the English
By and large we don't resent them or feel subjugated by them it's just banter and competitiveness

It's why Plaid Cumrag and Welsh ''''nationalism'''' are such toothless tigers, we like to have a moan but that's as far as it goes. If we had an independence referendum it'd go 80%+ remain.

Happening in Surrey lads?

> Ambulances Destroyed In Surrey Hospital Fire
>http://news.sky.com/story/1707781/ambulances-destroyed-in-surrey-hospital-fire

>>76286479
>By and large we don't resent them or feel subjugated by them it's just banter and competitiveness
This.

Even worse during the Rugby season.

>>76286472
We need to be bigger than just our nations borders. The nation-state is an outdated concept.

>>76282122
I think these MPs might be forgetting they'll have to have another election in a couple of years
Labour has a chance to truly shit the bed here

>>76286320
I put £10 at 5/2

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>>76286435

Who else is annoyed at seeing all the smug fucks posting that old people shouldn't be allowed to vote in the referendum because it's not their future?

Just seen one saying that anyone over the age of 55 shouldn't be allowed to vote, yes I'm mad.

>>76286734
I but 100 on at the same

>>76286584

They will be only thinking about their next expense claim, second home or a nice cushy job in Brussels.

>>76286479
An indy ref would be upwards of +90% of stay.

Scots seem to have this deep resentment for the English pushed into their psych from birth.

I remember going to go a 6 nations match v.s England as the millennium a few years back. Stood next to a bunch of drunk English lads. All throughout the game we we're giving each other shit, we're sheep-fuckers, they we're paki's (we don't get many paki's here). Things got tense and there was a little scuffle, but once the game was over we all wen't down the pub and had a few pints.

When it comes to Wales vs England, we accept that England is a greater country than Wales, and they realise we aren't delusional.

The Scots on the other hands...

>>76286335

Don't get complacent lads, the same thing happened with the Scottish referendum.

Keep fighting the good fight and don't quit until the fat lady sings.

just realised that when I voted in the last election, I was technically at a different address (even though I had already moved and simply went the 2 miles across the way)

anyway lads. registered to vote. hope I don't get v& for address shenanigans and wish me well on my way out.

>>76286370

The name still derives from Wallia though doesn't it?

>The extreme western peninsula of Dumnonia came to be known as "Cerniw" in Welsh, "Kernow" in Cornish and "Kernev (Veur)" in Breton.[when?] The modern English name Cornwall arises from a suffixation of the Old English word for Brittonic-speakers, wealas, to a borrowed form of the Brittonic place-name.

The old English word for Brittonic-speakers happens to be very close, if not identical, to the Latin word for the same group of people. Since Old English is post-Roman invasion it's almost certainly a word that derives from the latin wallia. My guess is Wealas is a Old English dialect form of the latin word Wallia, although the detailed etymology of it seems to be a sunject for rigourous debate to this day.

>>76286479
>>76286171
good lads

Wales polls real high with UKIP too. Based sheepshaggers.

>>76286734
>>76286772
i put down £22 and they are now offering me £26.40 to cashout now

>>76286573
Japan doesn't need to merge with China to survive
NZ doesn't need to merge with Australia to survive.

The world is a different place now mate, Communication around the world is piss-easy, commercial flights go everywhere . . .there are no such things as trade barriers - except what the EU impose.

We can appreciate other cultures too but in a homogeneous mix, it becomes boring.

The thought of a communist superstate is so outdated.

>>76286051
odds were about 5-6 last week. and bet on trump while you can, he's odds are about 2.6 now, free money.

>>76286766
Liberals hate democracy, sad but true

>>76286954

Hmm the bookies know what's going down then.

>>76286956
>The world is a different place now mate, Communication around the world is piss-easy, commercial flights go everywhere . . .there are no such things as trade barriers - except what the EU impose.

These things didn't happen by accident - they're a direct product supra-national insitutions being formed, in many cases propped up by nation-states even though they take power away from nation-states.

I think that ultimately nation-states will go the same way as city-states, they'll quietly slide into obscurity as the economy changes to make them redundant.

The European nation-state system was created by these sorts of economic and political pressures, and it can be undone by them too.

>>76286825
Indeed.
I am just surprised that Leave is hanging in there.
The scare stories have been comign thick and fast and they haven't had an effect yet.

I think the macroeconomic arguments may have all been exhausted by now. I don't think many more people can be persuaded by the macroeconomic scare stories.

I think the next obstacle will be the microeconomic scare stories about people's individual pensions. Pension-holders are a large part of the electorate, and if they are addressed directly they may be persuaded to Remain.

>>76287137

"Vote for the EU or Granny gets it!"

That's what it comes down to.

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Look at all the angry and hateful people on the leave side!

>>76286954

Don't bet much lads - in this scenario what's stopping someone from cashing out then making a new £26.40 bet?

>>76287230
Even if this autism was true, why do they think that other people's opinions should change how you vote?

>>76287273

Actually I think I'm retarded - the odds will be worse.

>>76286851
I think you have jumped too far ahead mate.

Certainly during Roman times, there was an East/West divide . .. having said that, the Romans were still trading with (modern day0 Wale and Cornwall . . .infact Cornwall was trading Tin with the Phoneticians long before Romans arrived here.

The retreat of Language never started until long after the Romans had gone and the Anglo-Saxon mercenaries (employed by East Britain Landowners) had began to take control.

>>76287230

I'm surprised the Guardian didn't include Putin in it's pics of Brexit.

Get ready for a big wave of "people who want to leave the EU are shills for Putin and traitors working for the enemy" to come your way too if it looks like leave will win in the week leading up to the vote.

>>76287126
The economy has changed to enrich the top 0.01% and stagnate the wages of everyone else even as productivity has increased.

This is one of the MAJOR trends of our situation in the West.
The other major trend is mass immigration effectively replacing native populations.

Neither are popular with the electorate, but both are supported by the EU.

Nation states enable groups of similar people to establish themselves as a team and work for the improvement of themselves. That attracts people. That's why Trump is cheered when he says Apple has to build factories in the USA, or that Disney can't replace its American workers with H1bs.

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>tfw 27oC

Kill me

>>76287273
nothing. but when i made my bet the odds were 4.5x now they are 3x so you wouldnt make as much

>>76287353

The Romans called it Wallia though didn't they? Latin certainly does. It's still Wallia in a lot of languages.

>>76286761
>slow internet
top kek

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>>76287376
>cloudy w/no sun

>>76287375
>Nation states enable groups of similar people to establish themselves as a team

No they don't.

Nations consist of milions of people, who don't have any enduring interests in common and may in fact have more interests in common with those abroad than their own countrymen.

There are many reasons why the nation-state system emerged in Europe in the late medievel period, getting everyone on-side together as a team had nothing to do with it.

>>76287477
>The Romans called it Wallia though didn't they?
I have most of my research on a laptop held in storage . . . .so I can't confirm or deny this.

But just out of a matter of interest are you trying to dispute what I said or support it (beit in a vague manner) ?

>>76280784
Why wont you learn from history britbong?

>>76285782
>wants independence from UK
>...
>wants to be cucked by the EU
WEW LAD

>>68168086

C U C K

>>76287664
>But just out of a matter of interest are you trying to dispute what I said or support it (beit in a vague manner) ?

I'm not sure myself if I'm being honest with you - it seems like a pretty straight-forward thing to me, you have Wallia, and then you have Corn-Wallia, the bit over the water from Wales. Same sort of people lived there, same sort of language, so by the Roman (and Old English) definition Wallia meaning Foreigner would've fit quite nicely.

I had a look at the etymology of it and there seems to be a lot of dispute over the topic and I couldn't get a clear answer, that based with your own ideas gives me pause for thought, but it's way too much of a co-incidence for it to be two seperate words imo. It'll probably boil down to whether or not the term Wallia was attached to Kernow by the romans themselves or whether Anglo-Saxons did it, using a word that ultimately derives from Latin.

>>76287611
>Nations consist of milions of people, who don't have any enduring interests in common and may in fact have more interests in common with those abroad than their own countrymen.

They have the interest of the wellbeing of their nation in common, obviously.
And Vardy may have lots of common Kane, but they still play for opposite teams.

>There are many reasons why the nation-state system emerged in Europe in the late medievel period, getting everyone on-side together as a team had nothing to do with it.
I am not arguing for a medieval notion of a nation state. Please learn how to be logical.

I'll do what you do: I'll assume you want a soviet-style definition of a union, hence you are a genocidal maniac and I don't even take you seriously.
Seriously? You want a soviet union of the EU? That is mental, mate.

>>76286734
Neet. I put 500

Just stopping by to say don't you bongbiscuits fuck this up.

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Im doing my part to keep Britain in the EU, are you?

>>76288222

Wow mate must be feeling lucky!

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It's looking good tbqh brother

>>76288357

Here's another scenario for you if you're feeling saucy:

Cameron wins the referendum, stays in power, but a big chunk of the Tory party quits for UKIP in a fit of pique. Now I can't see it being a huge number, whatever their principles like I've been saying most Tory MP's are self-interested careerists and they'll grit their teeth and stay in the party, but some of the hardcore, those who aren't interested in climbing the greasy pole as much, will leave and it won't take many for Camerons majority to disappear.

There's talk that if that happens, and the anti-EU right splits from the Tories taking it's parliamentary majority, the Tories will move to the left and call for a "Government of National Unity" to include the Lib Dems, and most importantly, some of the more right-wing Blairites.

Since it now looks that the Blairites have lost in the battle for the heart and soul of the Labour party, and since Corbyn has surived their two best chances at decapitation (Oldham by-election and Local elections) a few of them might jump ship and join with the Tories - in exchange for some high profile cabinet positions of course. Dan "Mi5" Jarvis, Jamie Reed, Michael Dugher (who was a Tory candidate in 2001 btw), Liz Kendall, John Mann and Tristram Hunt would love nothing more - after all, they're never gonna get into cabinet as long as the left runs the Labour party.

That way Cameron could stay in power without his Tory backbenchers, and weaken the Labour party (albeit temporarily) in one fell swoop.

Where are you lads betting? Wouldn't mind placing a bet myself

>>76288562
betfair exchange

>>76282455
Only the indoctrinated young cucks support staying in, because "muh white guilt".

>>76288503
The Blairites would never join the conservatives, their constituents would see it as an utter betrayal and they#d make themselves unelectable.

Remember, these are the people who hate the Tory party because muh mines, muh thatcher milk snatcher.

Even though decades of voting Labour has still left them living in squalor.

>>76288209
>They have the interest of the wellbeing of their nation in common, obviously.

Why? Those interests are different. Landlords have different interests to tenants - see how far you get when you're late with the rent and you attempt to pay for it with Patriotism - bosses have different interests to workers one trade has different interests to another trade. These things don't disappear because "Muh nation" y'know.

>>76288209

>I'll do what you do: I'll assume you want a soviet-style definition of a union, hence you are a genocidal maniac and I don't even take you seriously.

This is a bit of a leap! I said nothing of the sort.

I'm not talking about the EU - I'm not a big fan if that's what you want to know - but the rise and fall of the nation-state. Even if the EU does collapse, global capitalism doesn't work on national terms any more, there isn't such a thing as a "British market" as in centuries past since British markets are totally integrated into larger structures - the EU market, and in fact the world market (with organisations like the WTO and IMF governing that market)

Just as city-states failed when the economy transcended their limitations, nation-states will do the same. There's no point being nostalgic or weepy-eye about it, you were just lucky enough to be born to witness the slow decline of the nation-state on broadly liberal democratic capitalist grounds.

>>76279226
Where are the 'Mohammed defected' memes?

Lads did ya hear Paul Gazza Gascoigne got into a bit of trouble over racism?

>>76287988
I can't reinforce my stuff because like I said, I cannot access it (I must compile into a book sometime). I concentrated on local stuff , near my town but you can't help but include other West country items either.

The Romans never affected language in Britain, except the 'latinisation' of the Church.

It's quite interesting as following the Roman withdrawal from Britain, we were banned from forming a standing Army (hence the Est of England employing Anglo Saxons as mercenaries from continental invaders)

After a while the Mercenaries, instead of fighting invaders, were also tasked to fight other Brit landlords for land. At the beginning the spoils of these battles were given to the Brit landlords but later they were given to the Anglo Saxons.

The 'Black kinights' basically broke away from the Brit Landlord thing and fought their own battles, - keeping the spoils of war for themselves.

Its bloody fascinating when you spend time finding out about this, as you will find that the Original Britons were sidelined and Anglo-Saxon culture and language was the way forward.

It was NEVER an invasion by the Anglo Saxons but more of a culture change.

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Desperately trying to get that young 'Stay' vote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36458750

>>76288802
>The Blairites would never join the conservatives

I wouldn't put it past them - they're not party loyal at all, and their position within the Labour party gets weaker by the day. If they can't get rid of Corbyn before the conference season they're stuck with him - he'll be able to cement his position by sweeping all the internal party elections and removing the Blairites from their entrenched positions in the bureaucracy. There's also going to be big changes in who the full-time workers in Labour HQ are (their contracts are up for renewal just after conference) which removes more Blairites and finally, changes to the party rulebook, which mean easy de-selection and vengence for the Militant. The far-left remember what happened to them in the 1980's, and they're planning on paying it all back with interest.

Once that happens, it'll be a matter of time before the likes of Hunt and Jarvis get purged, and they know it. Wiser to jump before they're pushed.

Maybe they will lose their seats, but no doubt most of them will end up in the House of Lords and at least they can say they were "Minister of Such-and-such" which means they can sit on the boards of big companies and make obscene amounts of money when they do get kicked out, so that won't bother them as much as you think.

Relatives are over on a holiday and will miss the referendum. Got them postal votes from the consulate. They couldn't care less about the referendum, so I voted on their behalf.


4 votes for brexit lads.

>>76288459

#BelieveInBritain

Keep going lads, convince your friends and family, we can do this!

There are 5 people from work I've swung to the leave side.

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>>76289205

Hey guys do you notice that under the article where it says the queen backs brexit their is another one which says it is fake

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>>76289277
God bless you aussiebro

>>76289277

Good work lad, doing your bit from the colonies.

>>76289277

noice

>>76289333
The press at Buckingham palace denied it, but Clegg in-adversely confirmed it.

Also a UKIP poster was spotted through on of the windows at Buckingham palace kek

>>76288875
>Why? Those interests are different. Landlords have different interests to tenants - see how far you get when you're late with the rent and you attempt to pay for it with Patriotism - bosses have different interests to workers one trade has different interests to another trade. These things don't disappear because "Muh nation" y'know.

Because they are related.
Your brother needs a tenner otherwise he cannot get any petrol and he'll miss his job itnerview. Do you give him a tenner, or do you say: "you're interests aren't my interests, fuck off"
Nation states formed along ethnic lines are groups of families, and we care about the families who share our genes.

The rest of your post:
You're making bland, boring, pointless assertions.
We have shit leaders in the West. You cannot point to their failings and therefore declare that nation states don't work.

Global capitalism doesn't work on national terms anymore? Why not? Go on.
>b-because we have to trade
That isn't a reason you cuck.
Give me something specific.

I'd love to know how the British market trading with the French market somehow negates Britain as a nation state.
I'd love to know how treaties drawn up between those nations somehow defy the existence of a nation. I'd love to know how Britain trading with France somehow stops Britain from existing. Please tell me.

I am not in favour of too many of the supragovernmental organisations, so don't use their existence as an argument. I'd not be a part of many aspects of them.

I don't know why you think city states have failed. Because they aren't invading other countries? Because they aren't aggressive on the world stage? Because you don't hear in the news much about the peaceful lives in Singaporeans or the people of Monaco?

>>76289333
It's not Fake.

'Sub Rosa' talks were leaked and although it was in our favour . .. it's deplorable that this sort of trust was compromised.

I for one am not happy.

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>>76289277
Fantastic lad, doing your part for the commonwealth

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>>76289293
>that dip in REMAIN
>that surge for LEAVE

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>>76289277
GOOD
MAN

also kek speaks in captcha

daily reminder that if you vote to leave, you're uneducated/retarded or old.

>hnggggg we're going to get a norway deal
>norway still pay
>norway still have to let people move in freely (for three months)

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>>76285782
m8 together we formed the empire and BTFO of the world...if we stay we will be eroded further and become cash cows for fucking greece and romania...we are worth more than this!

JUST ONE MORE CHANCE TO BE GREAT AGAIN! dont you want to be proud of your flag again anon?

>>76289443
>>76288875
Cont:

Nor am I arguing in favour of global capitalism.

So go on, make another strawman, you pseudointellectual cuck.

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>>76289607
>norway also govern themselves

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>>76288774
I'm retarded, which one of these ones do I click?

>>76289607
Atleast you will get your fish back. The EU parliament is a sham anyway.

>>76289695
What the fuck have you done?

>>76289773
Haven't done anything mate, i'm confused

>>76289091
>The Romans never affected language in Britain, except the 'latinisation' of the Church.

Well that's not some trivial thing since the Church was the institution which had a monopoly on education and learning for many centuries following the collapse of the Roman Empire. Proper nouns, scientific and political terminology, a lot of that sort of stuff has a strong latin influence, even if it only makes up a small proportion of the overall vernacular. The enduring popularity of Britain as opposed to Alba as a name for the Isles is a legacy of Roman conquest, since that wasn't a word the natives ever used to describe their land nor was it a word that has any trace of Anglo-Saxon ancestry.

I'm not really to concerned about your research cos the explanation i got from the etymology wiki up thread seems to sum it up. Corn + Wealas (an Old English word that is used exactly the same way as the Latin word Wallia) it seems to me like it's entirely likely a proper noun with it's roots in Latin and then taken on by others.

I'm also not so sure about your history of the anglo-saxons since there's still a lot of dispute about the extent of their occupation of by the Anglo-Saxons, since according to the Romans the eastern coast of Britain were people who spoke a vaguely Germanic language most closely related to the Frisians and Belgi, in fact looking at a map you'd think that those peoples would be far more likely candidate for invading Britain than the Angles (who were much, much further away in what we know call Schleiswig-Holstein) but the distinction was lost on the likes of venerable Bede and lost to history, but that's another discussion entirely and not one I'm prepared for today.

>>76279226
>I'm an independent financial advisor, I manage money for a lot of people and businesses and I will be voting leave becau-
>Don't make a speech, please
>[applause]

Fuck this show. Based nurse at the end willing to say what she thought, though.

>>76289768

Yeah can't wait till a Type 45 sinks a Spanish fishing boat, the tears will be epic.

>>76280784
Extreme barrel scraping. These people would take gold every time if it was an Olympic sport.

>>76280787
If you allow initiative and council member election by parliament then the EU would be de facto ruled by the larger countries (france, germany, uk, italy) since they have many more seats than the smaller countries. Countries like Romania and Poland would have more influence than NL for example. All small countries would have to conform to the will of larger which is highly undesirable

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>>76278404

#Brexit

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>>76289277

Are Nige would be proud

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>>76289695
Thanks pol for easy money

>>76280976
I actually really struggle to watch that. Beheadings and general gore are easier to watch.

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>>76285782

I'm Scottish and support independence from UK and EU. I feel that it's hypocritical so support one and not the other.

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>>76280976

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>>76289807
NEVER take a wiki-link as truth . . .. I have something on Wikipedia that has been there for 7 years . .. .it's complete bullshit but it survives.

I have been well interested by this because of local interest to me.

I do think though, that you have just grabbed a simplified version of events.

>>76289443
>Your brother needs a tenner otherwise he cannot get any petrol and he'll miss his job itnerview. Do you give him a tenner, or do you say: "you're interests aren't my interests, fuck off"

>My Lord! We are both Englishmen, we are Kin, you are my brother and I am yours, can I have some bread to keep me from starving?

>Fuck off peasant, if you make eye contact with me again I'll have you hung.

>Yes my Lord.

Peasants and Lords, Landlords and Renters, Bosses and Workers, you name it, there's no special magic that stops those people from having material interests that diverge.

>Have you got the rent?

>No. You increased it beyond what I can pay. Are you going to evict me, your Aryan Brother, for some money? What is money between Englishmen?

>Bailiffs enter, snivelling tenant removed.

"B...b...but my Aryan Kin wouldn't exploit me for profit! We're all one big happy family!"

>>76289443
>Nation states formed along ethnic lines are groups of families, and we care about the families who share our genes.

This is factually incorrect. The history of nations, where they ended up, what flags and other finery they adopted, are political decisions, formed through wars, treaties and politics. They don't spring naturally from the DNA and people don't go through some massive genetic mutation when one nation dies and another set of flags and anthems replaces it.

Language plays a role in national identity, but it's not vital, there's plenty of kings who never spoke the language of the subjects they ruled and plenty of nations whose borders have no relation to linguistic groups. Geography plays a role too.

>>76289443
>Global capitalism doesn't work on national terms anymore? Why not?

That would require a lot of effort to go into details, but ultimately capital can make more money as part of a larger global market than it can being restricted to smaller markets on nation-state level. That was once true of city-states and nation-states. These things come and go.

>>76289607

Norway also govern themselves and if they don't like a leader, they vote them out.

The Remain Camp sell the benefits of remaining part of the EU organisation as exactly those that are actually simply from the single market

So rather than saying "we should leave and join the single market" which sounds like a compromise and thus is the adult, sensible thing to do - instead they say we should stay, because the remainers are linked to the corrupt EU government who is paying them.

Remember, the EU has:

U N E L E C T E D
L E A D E R S

Why would I use Direct Democracy to vote in favour of something that is, most purposefully and self-indulgently, not democratic? Why would I use a rare chance to vote to support an organisation who's top brass have made themselves UNACCOUNTABLE for any of the stupid bullshit they dream up?

I'll avert my eyes in a representative democracy because it's a shitshow anyway, but referendums are a different ball game and I will simply not vote at all instead of saying "yes please let me eat your shit master"

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>>76290037
thinking of sticking some cash on now too. any Leave momentum is good momentum, have the bookies back Leave would be the icing on the cake.

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>>76290037
Good luck lad

>>76284234
Leading party in NI and all other unionist parties except one are staunch Brexiteers. Only fenian parties want to remain. So NI could go either way, it will be close.

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>>76290672
Don't upset the Americans.

Most of them aren't allowed to bet . . .it's illegal

American freedoms.

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>>76290394
wew, a rational scotbro. Make Scotland great again.

>>76290394

Vote Leave and we can make all the Home Nations Great Again.

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>>76290516
I am not saying their interests are identical.
I am saying that prosperity of the nation is their common cause if they are both noble, decent folk. Is everyone a decent person? No, but enough people are to make the nation state work if given the encouragement.
There are studies on this with respect to Germany and Japan. Many people theorise that they recovered so quickly, essentially becoming #1 in Europe and Asia again because the national spirit of connectedness forged by their defeats made their nations strong and efficient.

>This is factually incorrect. The history of nations, where they ended up, what flags and other finery they adopted, are political decisions, formed through wars, treaties and politics. They don't spring naturally from the DNA and people don't go through some massive genetic mutation when one nation dies and another set of flags and anthems replaces it.
No, it's factually correct which is why things like pic related exist.

>That would require a lot of effort to go into details, but ultimately capital can make more money as part of a larger global market than it can being restricted to smaller markets on nation-state level. That was once true of city-states and nation-states. These things come and go.
I am not making the argument that we need to maximise the efficiency of a global capitalist system that enriches the top 0.001% (who are in favour of the global superstructures facilitating their wealth gains).
Germans are being told by the elites that it'll be good for their economy if money is taken away from Germans and given to the illegal immigrants. Perhaps that is the case, but I don't support it, and neither does any other non-cuck.

Guys we're not serious about leaving right?

We dont wanna start ww3 do we??

>>76285920

Says who you fucking Amerinigger? The only time I have any enmity towards the England is when the rugby is on. Otherwise I get along with the English just fine.

>>76291144
Weak b8 desu dodgy dave

>>76291144
The first thing I am doing after we leave is genociding the Europeans.

>>76291144

We have more chance of being dragged into WW3 when Brussels uses its European Army to antagonise Russia.

>>76291239
fuck, thought it was g8 b8

Come on bongs you can't leave we're all a big cute family. What's the point of leaving anyway? Your empire is dead. There's nothing to live for. Just let it go...

>>76289607
Why would you ever want to be apart of the EU? Literally one of the most evil groups in the world.

I'm sure giving unelected agenda pushing politicians the power to do whatever the fuck they want with zero consequences is a wonderful idea, look at how well Europe is doing now, a never ending stream of Islamic cultural terrorists and hidden ISIS soldiers, let's not forget the politicians (not elected) who vote in favour of Marxist ideals and seemingly want to destroy Europe.

Enjoy your 1984-commie wonderland.

>>76291308
stay where you are, ivo.

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>>76291308
You'll want to leave when the ficki ficki comes to your town.

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>>76291308
>Just let it go...

Make a brit/pol bread for the catalog

>>76291369

Come on lads

>>76291369

GET IN YER

>>76291369

>>76289277
Jolly good

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Scotland here, I'm voting out and I know my whole family is.

Though, I know the family of my brother's fiancée (who all live in London) are on the fence, and as expected it was because they're more concerned about their holiday home in Spain.

>>76291023
>I am saying that prosperity of the nation is their common cause

The nation is too abstract here - not everyone in the nation has a shared interest, and in fact it might be in the interests of some people in the nation to shit on others for wealth and power.

Nations are an abstract, the state is the more concrete form, and if you were to say "the wealth of the state is in the interests of everyone" then are you so sure? Is it in the interests of a landless peasant to see what little they have taken off them by a king to "further the prosperity of the nation?" which in practice means the coffers of the state?

>>76291023
>No, it's factually correct which is why things like pic related exist.

Fraid not. For instance, the Kingdom of Northumbria was replaced by the Danelaw, then by England, in the space of 3 or 4 centuries give or take - did those people undergo a vast genetic mutation or are they still Northumbrian genetically?

Nations are not some organic growth from people's DNA, they are political institutions formed by warring elites (the aristocracy being the warrior caste in feudal society) whose borders are determined by the outcomes of those conflicts and the politics that ensued.

I feel bad for ethno-nationalists - they're living to witness the end of their worldview. Cultural nationalism, not based on race, has a stronger view, but it will end up being civilisational - ie we'll have loyality to The West rather than any particular nation, which will persist as a geographic term but won't be the sovereign political unit as it has been prior.

And it doesn't really matter what you argue - you live in a capitalist system, that needs to expand itself, growth-following-growth, and that's what will happen whether you like it or not. The needs of global capitalism will kill the nation-state system, which is an impediment to their profits.