Christians fall in.
Any fellow Orthodox here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE1FzSC8DBs
Pastebin with FAQ's for Catholics and Protestants and atheists and so on for those interested in Orthodox Christianity, plus reading list with links: http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
>>76250264
I'm a Calvinist
Humans have free will, independent of God.
If humans don't have free will, there's no point to Earth at all. God would already know which souls are going to Heaven, Purgatory or Hell. We would just be going through the motions of fate.
That would also imply suicide, abortion and child rape are all in God's plan. That's absurd.
>>76250264
Is it normal for protestants to not even know they are protestants?
>>>/sci/8122672
>>>/sci/8122667
Eastern Ortho reporting in
>>76250471
No purgatory in the Bible, and yes he does, but the point of having the earth scenario is to demonstrate his character to his creation, and show mercy to some of them.
If he sent everyone to hell, you would see his holiness and Justice, but not his mercy and Grace.
If he sent everyone to heaven, you would see his mercy and Grace, but not his holiness and Justice.
But if some go to heaven and some to hell, than you see all aspects of his character.
We are his creation and he can do what he wants with us
>>76250471
Also, no love without free will.
>>76250264
Catholic here. It may be an unpopular opinion but i consider anyone who loves and follows and accepts Christ as my brother.
Praise Him. He is risen!
>>76250860
How can a man be free who is a slave to sin?
>>76250264
Grew up Mennonite. Pretty much non denom anymore. Really thinking about going to a Greek Orthodox church here in town next Sunday. All the orthos here have me curious. Any tips? What pomp and circumstance should I be prepared for?
>>76251161
Just drop the ana and become a regular Baptist
>>76250990
Man has the choice to be a slave to sin. You can choose to live in sin, or choose to live a Christ like life, with the end goal of being filled with the Holy Spirit, and live in the presence of God.
>>76251161
Just go with an open mind, do some reading on the Diving Liturgy, a little church history, and wear long pants and no hats.
>>76251260
You are born in sin, with one man sin was brought in this world, there is none righteous no not one, there is no one good, no one seeks God.
>>76251408
Right, so we are. But God sent his Son so that we have the choice to leave that life behind and be born again.
>>76250847
There's no allusion to heaven or hell either outside of tradition and a literary technique. A Hindu is allowed to say "go to hell," you know.
What Jesus does talk about is heaven on earth where you will be raised up.... Considering the prevalence of Christian culture and morals despite atheism and the precedent of democracy (or will of the people, as in will of "I AM") over even monarchies, yeah, this seems pretty kingdom of heaven to me.
Now the spooky, how are you raised up? By realising the true nature of resurrection.
>>76251161
Non denom is correct
Don't forget to teach your children though, that's especially important for secular theists.
>>76251260
>>76250990
Understanding sin is about understanding moderation, what's worse is it's different for everyone so being preachy, judgemental or evangelist is not on.
This is why it's important to have a close relationship with your children, their moderation is close to yours.
>>76251408
Jesus died for the truth that you're wrong and original sin is bullshit, amongst many other truths.
>>76250322
Do you believe in pre destination? I hope you know that's heretical
>>76251535
Did Jesus pay for the sins of everyone on the Cross?
A question to Christians who have read the Gospel of Thomas. What do you think of it? The document is often described as Gnostic but it lacks and arguably denies key Gnostic doctrine: there is no mention of the fall of Sophia and Jesus rejects the idea of there being other realms of existence.
>"the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."
It also seems to not have a lot of key orthodox doctrines. There is no mention of sin or forgiveness and the cross is mentioned once in passing, as a metaphor. He also names James as the successor of his church
An interesting thing is we find the usual teachings but the motive behind the teachings are completly different, it's not about avoiding sin or divine command but personal development
> His disciples asked him and said to him, "Do you want us to fast? How should we pray? Should we give to charity? What diet should we observe?"
>Jesus said, "Don't lie, and don't do what you hate, because all things are disclosed before heaven. After all, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered up that will remain undisclosed."
What is also interesting is so many of the well known quotes from Jesus are in it but with altercations.
Mathew
>For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them
Thomas
>Jesus said, "Where there are three deities, they are divine. Where there are two or one, I am with that one."
My personal favorite line.
> Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."
>>76251605
Quit smoking pot while reading the Bible
>>76251161
everything is in song
also be prepared for lots of greek that will go way over your head
>>76251651
Is the Bible heretical?
Eph 1
Romans 8: 28-
John 10
John 6:37
>>76250264
Query for Christians: Why do we still need to obey the rules in the Bible if Christ already died for our sins?
>>76250264
Christ is risen!
>>76250264
Christianity is cuck for people who cannot accept death
https://soundcloud.com/couchtruthing/take-back-our-cities
Reminder that the Pope is a traitorous cunt who invites the blood thirsty enemy into christian lands.
>>76251916
Those who Christ did die for, after their regeneration, strive to be like Christ, this process is known as sanctification/ irresistible grace.
>>76251161
There will probably be liturgy guides there you can use. When you come in, there will be candles you can buy (Greek Orthodox uses honor system), light one and say a prayer, and place it in the sand. There will be various icons in the narthex, it is customary to bow and make the sign of the cross before them, and kiss the feet and/or hands of the subjects. Then you go through the doors and begin worship. Properly speaking, you should come in during Orthros. You don't come "before" a service, you step in while a service is going on, so you step right into the atmosphere; Orthros is the service directly before Liturgy, and you can step in any time except during a few circumstances that should be on the door. If you come early enough, there will be a point the priest holds the Gospel to venerate: approach, kiss the Gospel, then the priest's hand, and go back. Since you are not a member of the Church, don't go up to partake of Communion; but you can have the antidoron at the end.
>>76251916
> 21 I pray they will be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. I pray that they also will be in us, so that the world will believe that you sent me.
I've been studying Orthodox Christianity and really want to attend a church in my town. I'm in the Midwest.
I don't want to embarrass myself when I go, and would like to talk to someone from that church before I go, but they're super weird and won't return my attempts to reach out to them.
I'm moving soon, so hopefully the Orthodox church where I'm moving to will be more accepting.
Whenever I talk about this online to other Orthodox, I just get the usual "Just go, no one will care if you don't know what to do, just don't take Eucharist."
tl;dr Really want to convert to Orthodoxy, can't find a mentor to save my life, >tfw destined to be a Protestant the rest of my life or biting the bullet and becoming Catholic
Thank you God for giving me the power to pass my classes this semester! Just as what I prayed for.
What successes have you accomplished with/through God /pol/?
>>76252123
Thanks, looking up stuff right now.
>>76251698
i read it and its not worth any time its clearly some fraud what uses the bible text to try to be some what relevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUdlAYRWE30
>>76252121
So if we just followed the rules it wouldn't be enough. You need the belief in Jesus and the rules to be saved?
>>76252353
underrated
>>76252218
That's a bummer anon. If you're ever in Texas you can meet some good people.
>>76252387
Only Jesus saves, works do nothing. Works are a result of your salvation. Eph 2:8-10. If you realize you are a sinner in need of Savior, you need to go into prayer, ask God for a changed mind and that you want him to save you through the sacrifice of Jesus, and After you are Done put you trust and loyalty in Jesus Christ
>>76252387
>9 Because if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and in your heart you have faith that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
>>76252732
>>76252773
So both works and faith?
Or just faith?
I am baptist, but I would like to Ally with the Orthodox Christans if they are willing to accept it.
>>76252827
if you think saying that Jesus is Christ and believe he raised from the dead is work, then both, yes
>>76252263
Good job anon. God bless you brother.
>>76252827
By Gods grace, you can be given a saving Faith, and by that alone you are saved,
>>76252831
Orthodox/Catholic will never ally with any of the 950,000 Protestants sects.
Sorry, family.
>>76252976
>>76252929
Ok neat
>>76252831
Ecumenism is heresy, just join us rather.
>>76253101
There is a difference between basic beliefs and a saving faith, please remember what I said earlier
>>76251698
Gospel of Thomas was a while back for me, the only line I remember is sad is the Christian eaten by the lion, but blessed is the lion who eats the Christian with an allusion that this is the wrong way of looking at it. My impression was "okay, so you are what you eat and being eaten is bad... Grrreat."
Neat quotations, bible infallibility feels very difficult when such a beautiful thing was omitted when John and Matthew were not. And the Pauline letters? Come on, Jews literally have it written in their Talmud that Paul seemed like controlled opposition. Without understanding the historicity of Paul you'd think he were bigoted, homophobic and preaching hate.
>>76252263
I keep praying for the end of NEEThood but Satan keeps telling HR it's more moral to hire someone with a lesser GPA, less drive but either brown skin or a vagina.
I believe God only answers prayers that you can fulfil yourself by your own will, you may choose to study hard but you cannot force someone to give you a job.
All about realising your own divinity, man's ascent to godlikeness. It was literally a Catholic priest who told me we're all children of God, thus we are all capable of divinity.
As I said in other threads, I have very questionable views on the divinity of Jesus.
>>76252605
This is virtually a philosophy thread >>>/lit/ or >>>/his/ is more appropriate...
>>76253021
I tried to convert to Orthodoxy and my parents flipped the fuck out. Giving me the choice to get out of the house if I become Orthodox. So I had no choice but to stay I have no where to go and I do not have enough money.
BARTHOLOCUK IS NOT MY PARTIARCH
>>76253265
>As I said in other threads, I have very questionable views on the divinity of Jesus.
he's God right hand tho
>>76252353
This a million times.
Christianity threads do not belong on a political forum.
>>76253415
That's a damnable heresy
>>76251941
Truly he is risen!
I feel like I hit rock bottom. I can't give enough of a fuck to go into detail, but damn. Jesus help me through this.
One of the ten commandments is thou shalt not murder, murder being an UNJUSTIFIED killing of a person, killing is permissible, i.e. self defense. You wouldn't break the commandment shooting the guy who was going to kill you.
Now that that is settled, would suicide be breaking that commandment? I am debating whether or not suicide would be considered a justified death depending on the situation.
tl;dr explain, using theological sources and other christian philosophy to help me settle an internal debate on whether or not a person who commits suicide goes to Heaven or Hell, and if it is dependent on the circumstances. Thank you.
>>76253450
Its politically incorrect not political general
>>76253468
why
>>76252831
We are allied, didn't you get the news?
https://mospat.ru/en/2015/10/28/news124369/
>>76253154
This isn't ecumenism, it's being allies like being allied with Assad.
>>76253511
Read John 1
>>76250264
orthodox here, only christianity there is
>>76253513
HOLY SHIT! PRAISE JESUS IN THE HIGHEST OF HEAVENS!!! Thank you anon *bows*
>>76253588
On what grounds
>>76253563
i mean Jesus is God, but is not the Father
>>76253642
One God existing in three distinct persons
>>76253450
>Christianity threads do not belong
This is a christian board.
Greek Orthodox reporting
>>76253265
From what I take from praying is that it won't be enough, but you gotta take action and such. Praying for physical material won't work.
But eventually you will get a good place to work at. Just look for something that is hindering you from that opportunity. If the area is full of people that want to hire the unworthy, try to apply somewhere else or aim for a better resume and sell yourself to them fully at most of your capability. But I wouldn't lie and pretend to be something that they want to hire regardless of knowledge, but appearance. They will eventually figure it out and go bankrupt after hiring the false just for the good of their image and not good business strategy.
As Zyzz said, we're all gonna make it bruh, hang in there!
>>76253473
Hypothetically if a person is truely saved, they will go to heaven no matter what they do, but God does not want you to do that, he will take you home when it is his will, so if you are having those thoughts get help now, because If your not here, than you can't do Gods work
>>76254298
>they will go to heaven no matter what they do
Why does the Bible say you need to do the will of the father to be saved then?
>>76254467
It was a hypothetical, a person cannot lose their salvation John 10:28, but the question is, if someone is truely saved, would they commit suicide
>>76254598
they wouldn't be believing in Jesus, that everything is for better, and are weak
>>76253415
Assume this, you followed every word of Jesus and every virtue, even the stuff omitted from the Catholic bible. You then rejected everything else, whether it's Buddhism or Nietzschism or whatever other result from beautiful human minds. Hypothetically, your entire ideal of virtue was a clone of Jesus.
In this hypothetical state your responses to stimuli from the universe cease to be yours and are much more similar to Jesus's, in fact if you had the same hormone levels as Jesus, which would necessitate the same body of Jesus, or rather the same DNA, would you not convince even Jesus's own mother that you're Jesus bin Hur? Would you not become the risen resurrected Jesus lacking only his episodic memories? I wrote a comment in a YouTube video (don't destroy my anonymity) where I concluded you're "you" no matter what if you can perfectly convince every atom of the universe that nothing has changed.
It's hypocritical but I believe you should find your own path and become your own Christ, but that's just me.. and probably Jesus as well considering his message about "the good news."
Regardless, this is how I interpret the resurrection during the kingdom of heaven. Interestingly, this conclusion is only possible to come to if you believe evolution and reject creationism.
>>76253468
It's actually heresy to say otherwise.
Next confession I'm literally going to ask forgiveness for my blasphemy and heresy, I did something similar the last time I went to confession in late primary school (second time overall).
>>76253563
The word became flesh...
Yes, knowledge can revive personality.
>>76254172
I'd rather not substitute the disadvantage of living in a left wing shithole for the disadvantage of applying for places that require sponsorship for me to move there, or worse, extra paperwork due to not being a citizen.
Besides, I'm broke. I can't afford to move.
Damn yuppies and their implications that you should be allowed such mobility, bro you're wasting money.
Im Muslim who wants to Orthodox. How do I do it
>>76254598
I believe Jesus has saved my soul - and I am in forever debt to him for that. But my physical body is another story - I'm wondering if taking ones own physical life dirties the soul and spirit. I mean, it shouldn't, because faith and faith alone, but I don't know what to think. I'm so lost in life.
>>76254747
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, that's a heavy part, if he were just a human it would be other story
>>76254720
Look up John pipers prison q and a
He actually addresses this issue
>>76254747
If the universe aligned in a way that you had every inch of jesus's DNA and mannerisms, and exact path and same outcome, you would still not be jesus because you would are not divine. Only god can mandate that.
>>76254908
Read Romans 6 and Get back to me
>>76254598
Salvation is at judgement. If you are judged poorly, then you're not saved.
>>76255067
Read all of John 3
Then all of 1 John then get back to me
>>76250987
Not unpopular at all brother. Protestant here, glad to see some real brotherhood among the church.
>tfw the only Orthodox parish that isn't an hour away is 23 minutes away but services aren't in English
There's a Catholic church 5 min from where I live. It can't be that bad, can it?
>>76255148
I've all of John.
God knows everything beforehand. Whether or not you're saved will have to do with your actions which are up to you, nonetheless. Because you will face judgement for your actions.
>>76255240
Well, Orthodox don't consider Catholics to be a valid Church. But Catholics consider Orthodox to be fully valid, so it depends on the perspective.
You should at least try the Orthodox church before going to the Catholic one.
>>76255291
So my salvation is based on my works then
Eph 2:8-10
>>76250847
Unless one assume that purgatory is the old testament underworld sheol.
What happens to the souls in hell after Revelations?
>>76255478
That's a major leap
This thread's a mess >>>/v/340118534
>>76255521
Eternal torment
Just wondering, what's wrong with Catholicism?
>>76255561
>
Don't follow the Bible
>>76255446
Your salvation isn't based on works, but does require them, Christ and James make this explicitly clear.
Don't conflate works in general with "works in the law" (circumcision, eating kosher, etc.), which is what Paul talks about (Galatians 3)..
>Ορθόδοξοι Χριστιανοί
>δεν μιλάνε ελληνιkά
>δεν ξέρουν το Πιστεύω
ΚΑΝΟΝΙΚΟΙ ΒΓΕΙΤΕ ΕΞΩ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΝ ΠΙΝΑΚΑ ΜΟΥ ΡΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕ
>>76255034
>because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
Is this what you were pointing me towards? Sorry, I'm not a person who reads often and my vocabulary isn't great. I'm not that smart. Can you explain?
>>76255555
I thought they all perish in a ball of fire?
>>76254918
The holy spirit is seen as a force that permeates the entire universe, in some ways spirituality which is filtered by our minds and bodies. In Islam it's preached we all share the same soul which is "corrupted" (possibly not the best word) by own minds and bodies to form uniqueness. This doesn't feel wrong IMO, perhaps life itself is the holy spirit passed down from the first molecule that began self replicating.
Bro, everyone is conceived of the holy spirit, if not Jesus' good news is false since only Jesus can achieve what Jesus did. Either Jesus is right and became divine through the word, or Jesus is wrong, pre-60s Catholics are right and only Jesus is capable, thus let's worship Jesus like polytheists worship past pharaohs or Krishna.
Then again, you're probably going to tell me Jesus denies his own divinity even at the end of time. Perhaps, but so would I if it meant empowering everyone else at my expense, why not share the divinity?
>>76255002
Define divinity, IMO it's revelation.
>lowercase g
Having fun trolling?
>>76255034
What if uniting with Jesus simply means accepting his virtues as correct? So long as you allow Jesus to influence your behaviour, you are walking with Jesus.
>>76255291
If God had omniscience, experience itself would be pointless.
The omnigod is false, designed to compete with polytheistic ideas of gods with an almost childish two wrongs making a right thing. Stop preaching falsehoods, God is simply defined at exodus 3:14.
Keep posting the bible quotes though.
>>76255705
yeah, John talks about the second death
>>76255668
>Your salvation isn't based on works, but does require them
nope it doesnt
that is the most common confusion there is ,,, its catholicism heresy works are not required at all
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
>>76255700
Once someone is truely saved, they are no longer a slave to sin, meaning that you are now covered by Christ, but since you have been freed by Christ, you are to try and model yourself to Christ, we all stumble, but the difference between a regenerate Christian and a person in their sins is that we hate our sin and we strive not to sin.
Do you feel this way?
>>76254880
Go find a church and say that you want be saved to the priest or minister he will help you. Simple. Get a bible and start reading the Gospel of Matthew stat. Confession with your heart and mind that Christ is Lord.
>>76255705
Not according to what I've read, hell is eternal, the lake of fire is just the Judgement
>>76255764
but Jesus is not human, Jesus was before everything, and everything was made through him,
also what person can say is same as Christ? who do you think is like Jesus? Buddha?
i think we are a part of a whole big thing, but Jesus is bigger than all of us, as the Father is bigger than everything
>>76256040
I don't know, I'm in a rough spot right now. I always do try to follow in His footsteps, I'm kind, almost to a point of suicidal altruism, but I just don't feel like I want to stay alive much longer.
I just want to know if He would turn me away from The Gates if I ended my life. I really love Jesus, the first thing I do when I see him is weep for what he went through and give him a big hug. But I want that to be able to happen, but if I commit suicide I don't know if that will be possible.
>>76255891
When Paul talks about works, he is referring to works of the Law, see Galatians 3.
Christ and James both say you need works, are they heretics?
>>76256285'
is god a liar?
the only requirement is belief. Jesus said so
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Do you think there are two differents gods on the bible?
Like the hebrew god, he was quite violent, but in the new testament, Jesus was a total bro.
>>76256282
Don't commit suicide, what you need to do is go into is Go into prayer, ask that God grants you repentance, and you need to totally and fully put your trust in Jesus Christ, he wants you to live, being on this earth is very important, proclaim the gospel and share the news to every creature, live until God decides to call you home
>>76256450
>bro.
That is called Arianism and that is a damnable heresy
>>76256450
apparently you havnt read the new testament because Jesus went around telling people to pluck their eye out and various other incredibly violent things in fact the new testament is 1000x more terrifying the the old testament
Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
>>76256450
Cause the Israelites were sinners worshipping other gods when he had chosen them as to be his kingdom of priests to pave the way for the coming one.
>>76256615
Not Arianism but polytheism.
>>76250471
Man does have a free will, but in the end God's will shall be done.
>>76250264
Southern Evangelical here, what are the core differences between my denomination and Orthodoxy?
>>76256615
Why is it heresy?
>>76256632
Nope, I've read just what I was told at church when i was younger.
My bad.
>>76256767
Faith vs works
>>76256832
I and the father are one John 10
>>76256436
Jesus didn't say this was *all* that is required, do you even Matthew 25?
James says faith is useless without works (that is why Luther tried to remove him from the Bible).
>>76256521
You've been a big help. Thank you. The rough patch shall end soon and I'll be back into His loving arms.
>>76256450
Marcionism was an Early Christian dualist belief system that originated in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome around the year 144.[1]
Marcion believed Jesus was the savior sent by God, and Paul the Apostle was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel. Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament. This belief was in some ways similar to Gnostic Christian theology; notably, both are dualistic, that is, they posit opposing gods, forces, or principles: one higher, spiritual, and "good", and the other lower, material, and "evil" (compare Manichaeism), in contrast to other Christian views that "evil" has no independent existence, but is a privation or lack of "good",[2] a view shared by the Jewish theologian Moses Maimonides.[3]
Marcionism, similar to Gnosticism, depicted the God of the Old Testament as a tyrant or demiurge (see also God as the Devil). Marcion was labeled a gnostic by Philip Schaff,[4] while other scholars have rejected that categorization. Marcion's canon consisted of eleven books: A gospel consisting of ten sections that also appeared in the Gospel of Luke; and ten Pauline epistles.
>>76256912
the parable of the 10 virgins is about 5 catholics who were not really believers and trusted in their works
and the other 5 had true faith
"faith without works is dead" is talking about the fact that people who dont do anything to help their neighbor are functionally worthless and should be ashamed that passage doesnt talk about salvation at all
>>76256969
Thank you for your reply.
But I'd like to know your (or other anons) take on the subject.
>>76256912
James is talking about someone who claims to have faith when they aren't walking the talk, works are a result of faith, so if someone claims they have faith, but their works don't show it, that is a dead and not a saving faith
>>76256962
Seriously though, do what I told you to do
>>76250987
But what about mormons or Jehovah witnesses? They would probably technically fit your description, but their actual beliefs concerning who christ is are heretical. I.e. christ is a spirit baby, brother to lucifer, his sacrifice isn't enough to wash away all sins - Mormonism.
>>76257067
It talks about justified, which is literally a just a different translation of the word translated as "absolved" or "acquitted". Salvation requires you to be absolved of your sins.
>>76257175
I have no energy to brush my teeth, let alone go on a mission and spread Gospel. I haven't brushed my teeth and showered in a month, for reference on how depressed I am. I just want to know if God would still love me and give me all of his Mercy and Grace even though I couldn't handle the tests he put me though.
Being on this Earth isn't important - it's going to be destroyed. The real beauty lies in the Eternity of heaven.
>>76257116
So you agree then that faith (the same word as "belief" in Greek) is useless without works to accompany it?
>>76257227
Pure heresy if you ask me, Mormonism is polytheism, that God is the son of a father and mother. JW's literally distort and make their own bible the way they want so they can deny the son.
>>76257351
I meant the go into prayer part
>>76257356
A saving faith which is a trust is given to you after you repent ( change mind) which is what God does via the Holy Spirit. You become a changed person who desires to follow Christ ( irresistible grace) the Greek word pistis means more of a trusting loyalty than a logical belief
>>76257312
>James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
see this passage... notice how it doesnt provide the answer "no" to the question . thats because the answer to the question is yes it can save him. you would just be a complete worthless dead individual if you decided to not help your starving christian brother when hes in need
god still has to save anyone who believes in him it doesnt matter if youre the most evil person on earth because he redeemed us from all of our sins
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
>>76257624
Repentance is required for each sin, not just a one time deal.
Grace is not irresistible, that negates freewill.
> the Greek word pistis means more of a trusting loyalty than a logical belief
A trusting loyalty demons have, apparently. according to James.
>>76257078
I'm not exactly a convential beleiver. But I'll give you my method.
If you take a religious text or a theology the more things it explains in the real world the more true it is, good ideas prove why the way the world is how it is. The more the text/theology itself is incapable of standing on it's own and requres other things to explain it's short coming the more false it is, bad ideas require proof rather than provide proof.
>>76257760
>thats because the answer to the question is yes it can save him.
But he says that even demons have faith, so he's suggesting that they're saved?
>>76257827
if satan repent and believe in Jesus can he be saved?
>>76257909
I don't know, but he already believes in Jesus. Whether he could repent and gain forgiveness is an open question, the Orthodox don't have an answer to it because Christ never said and we don't add to dogma, it's only what Christ imparted.
>>76257827
the devils arent offered a sacrifice theyre doomed with no hope not in the plan for redemption like mankind has access to
>>76257775
Free will isn't really biblical, you are either a slave to sin or Christ.
The Greek word for repentance is metenoia which means to change mind. A person who is dead in there sins can't do this without Gods intervention.
You have a very palagian view of the Bible.
2 Timothy and acts 11 talk about God granting repentance so I go by that.
Grace is irresistible but I can only tell you that from experience
>>76258093
How would you know whether or not Christ's sacrifice is open to them?
>>76257909
No fallen angel not human
>>76258093
yeah that's right, Jesus talks about some things that are unforgivable
>>76257981
Here is a question relating to the salvation of Satan.
From what I understand Orthodox think universal salvation is possible, that everyone can be saved.
Now the book of revaluations pretty much states that both Satan and the Anti-Christ will be sent to hell.
So if it is true that Satan being saved is true, or that the possibility of everyone being saved is true. Than it must mean it is possible for the prophecy to not happen as it is written. Do you believe that prophecies are set in stone or can their outcome be changed?
>>76258193
>Free will isn't really biblical, you are either a slave to sin or Christ.
A choice you make with freewill.
>A person who is dead in there sins can't do this without Gods intervention.
That's true, God giving intervention doesn't mean they will accept it.
>Grace is irresistible but I can only tell you that from experience
Then we're just robots. We're not made in God's image if we don't have free will. What criterion would God even use to decide who is saved and who isn't? He wouldn't be using justice
>>76258278
No, Orthodox believe it is possible that you can be saved from hell after going, that you can repent from hell. However, no Orthodox believes this is certain, they only believe that it's could be the case, but we don't know since Christ didn't say. Regardless, even if it were the case, that doesn't mean people in hell *would* repent, it would still require them to choose to.
>>76258195
because thats what the bible says hell was intended for them
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
>>76257909
No.
Angels are eternal beings and at the moment of their creation had the divine vision, witnessing God firsthand and understanding perfectly that He is perfect and good. Even so in their pride the demons rejected God and in so doing committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the one unforgivable sin.
>>76258195
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
>>76258497
So certain people, such as the future anti-Christ and Satan were pre-destined for hell? It also almost explicitly states that the vast majority of the population will be deceived and end in hell. Is this also pre-destined?
The only way for a prophecy to be absolute is if all events in it were predestined. In fact the very idea of prophecy seems suggest that at least to some degree we lack free will. To say a certain person will do a certain thing at a certain time means he could never choose to do otherwise.
>>76258534
And it surely was, since they fell before humanity. I don't see how this proves your assertion, however.
>>76250264
wasn't /his/ created for threads like this?
>>76258372
We are born with a sinful nature, so we will always choose to go against God until he saves us. ( total depravity).
Give me a verse on libertarian free will. My current position is that we make choices, but we choose according to our nature.
Jesus Christ took the sins of his sheep on the cross, paying for them in full, so that some would go to heaven
>>76258724
Yes, the angels fell and were cast out. That doesn't state they can't repent. They might not be able to, but we don't know.
>>76258735
It's foreseen, not pre-destined. God knew they were going to make the choice, but did not force them to make it--in other words, he did not make the decision for them, he did not desire they make it, but he knew they would.
>>76258735
Knowing which choice someone is going to make doesn't mean they have no choice.
>>76258744
>>76258875
if you want to believe that angels are capable of believing in Jesus and being saved then you are basically a fringe minority of less than 1%
99% of christians understand this. god came to save mankind not demons
>>76258875
Predestination is biblical
Eph 1
Romans 8:28-
John 10
John 6:37
>>76258979
Predestination of salvation, but not of damnation.
>For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
>>76258891
We have choice, but a person who is a slave to their sin will always choose to rebel against God
>>76259074
Is this from Peter
>>76258891
>>76258875
Except God is never wrong by default. If he knows what's going to happen, ie who will sin and go to hell, then it must happen or else he's wrong and not perfect ie not God.
pic related
>>76259167
1 Timothy 2
>>76259237
Why Calvinism makes sense
>>76259237
Your conception of hell is Catholic/Protestant.
Orthodox have a rather different one
>>>/his/1244898
>>76259264
>
I didn't know you were a universalist
>>76250264
Grew up Episcopal in the south. The church left me behind a long time ago. Thinking maybe Eastern Orthodox if I ever manage to overcome my distaste for intra-congregation politics.
>>76250264
The reformation and schism were mistakes. We need to be united in one church again. Catholicism is the only correct answer. It's the original, true church. It has the largest following by far. Unity is the only thing that can save this crumbling religion
>>76258875
Demons can't repent. They already had the beatific vision, theosis, and they still rejected God. They've already rejected God's grace, and since they are beings who exist outside of time, that rejection is permanent. They're like the Pharisees who witnessed Jesus performing miracles and understood that He is the Messiah and still accused Him. Demons blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. There's no possibility of forgiveness for them. They're pure evil.
>>76259237
god doesnt judge you based on whether you followed the commandments enough...its whether you have faith which is a passive action
you can be saved on accident i believe
John 12:42
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
god is not a tyrant using force hes offering something without any payment. free gift.
>>76259338
I'm not. I only can't reject the possibility.The official stance of the Church is that it is possible, but we cannot by any means presume it, and even if it occurred it would still only happen with the seeking of forgiveness by the condemned, which they must freely chose to do.
>>76259364
Baptist is the way to go
>>76259398
>Demons can't repent.
Why not?
>They're pure evil.
They can't be, since everything God created is good, and God created them.
>>76259364
Antiochian Orthodox is the evangelist vanguard, and has a ton of converts and liturgy in English, if that interests you. More than half are converts.
>>76259615
They have to ask for salvation, ya dingus.
>>76259505
If 1 Timothy means what you think, it would conflict with other verses, so I read it in its context and its talking about Paul preaching to Gentiles, so what he means by this, is that the elect will come from all over and is not limited by race.
>>76258875
So since the actions of Satan, the anti-christ, and the millions who will be deceived are NOT pre-destined. That means each of them could use their free will to do something other than what is written right?
I fail to see how a choice involves free will if there is only one possible outcome.
My patron saint
>>76259323
that still doesn't refute my point
If God knows everything, then he knows what choices people will make. If he is never wrong, then the choices/actions are just waiting to be unfolded. It doesn't matter if God likes their choices, it's that they have already been decided and thus the basis of free will is non existent.
>>76259862
Your right, libertarian free will is non existent and unbiblical
>>76259862
people who think this are forgetting one thing
that god can literally do anything he wants and that includes withholding himself from engaging in the decisions of other creatures
he can designate a legitimate "will" to his creatures that are independent actors
>>76259715
And why can't they?
>>76259728
It's just talking people in general, judging by the first verse were "all people" is introduced as a subject.
It doesn't mean "will" in the English sense, it means "will" in the sense of "I will it," but in Greek this is a more flexible term, and can just mean desire or intend. But the point is, God clearly does not preordain people to go to hell, this is made abundantly clear in the Book of Ezekiel.
>>76259615
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to know that God is real, to know that the Holy Spirit is good and pure and right and to reject it anyway.
>>76259760
God is beyond time and can see all times at once. It's not a question of something being written, it's a question that God can see them doing it even if they only experience one thing they do at a time.
>>76259998
You got a verse for that
>>76260018
No, it just means to blasphemy the Holy Spirit. The Pharisees said the Holy Spirit is "impure" when they said Christ had an impure spirit.
>>76260142
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B8%CE%AD%CE%BB%CF%89
>>76260198
I don't see how this refutes my position
>>76250264
>Any orthodox in here?
Reporting in withslav qt3.14s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKLwutElZ-s
Catholics are alright, but the Bishop of Rome needs a lesson in humility.
High Church Protestants welcome to join in serious discussion about eventual reunion, low church beta faggots can go fuck themselves in a forest with their atheist-dyke bishops the filthy heretics.
>>76259985
But he will still know the outcome of that designation, since he is omniscient. Again it's not about God giving us free will that is the logical culprit, it's that he knows with 100% certainty all the events of the universe. That just screams fatalism to me.
>>76250661
Extremely common I find.
>>76260164
Even if that were true, what do you think Demons speak about Jesus, about God?
They are in eternal sin. They chose it knowingly.
I don't even know how you can do that while knowing there is God.
Demons chose their path a long time ago.
They are our enemy and we will wrestle against them for the rest of our time on this earth.
>>76260319
It shows the "all people" referred to, is the same subject as the "all people" in verse 2:1, which is clearly more than just saying "not just Jews be saved", since it includes rulers everywhere in 2:2.
>>76252353
>>76252605
>>76253450
>>>/reddit/
>>76260065
Here's the thing we are talking about something already written done.
It's one thing if I have the potential to make choices about my life, and God existing in all parts of the time line will be there and see the results whether I choose A or B. In this case no matter how many times I change my mind God would know the answer. In fact if God tells me what he predicts I will do I could even choose to change my mind.
However it's completly different for God to write down something and for it to still hold true. Out of the infinite number of choices the characters in Revelation could do, there is only one they will pick. The anti-christ has NO CHOICE to change his mind, if he used his free will to do something else there is no prophecy.
I think if we accept the idea of prophecy we must reject free will. Personally I choose to reject prophecy and accept free will.
>>76260438
More like predestination
I'm not gonna sugar coat it, I believe some are destined for heaven and some for hell, but I share the gospel assuming that the person I share it with will receive it, because I don't have a list of who goes were
>>76260476
I think they are probably too scared to even mention his name
>>76260438
it doesnt matter what he knows
youre thinking about time linearly
our souls are eternal conscious things
for example think about this, where does gods thoughts come from??? take that and all god did was set up the same mechanism for our minds... it comes from within. god didnt cause you to be against him
>>76260536
>
Did pay for sins on the cross?
>>76260628
God sees all your choices at once, you only see them one at a time. Your probably is presuming you are making only once choice at a time because you see time that way.
>>76260702
I think that depends on what you mean by "pay". If you mean he was being punished by God in our stead, obviously not.
>>76260786
So he didn't atone for our sins?
>>76260876
He forgives them. He atoned for them, but ontologically, not juridically. That is, he had to suffer for them to be cleansed, but not as a way to placate God.
>>76260932
>
That is very palagian
>>76260713
The thing is choices are made in reaction.
Let's suppose God makes a prophecy about what I will do tommorow. I could read the prophecy and choose to do something else.
God would forsee this and write the other thing I would do. And this in turn would mean there would be different text, I would read this and yet again do something different.
Even though God knows my moves the moment he commits to a prediction by having it written on paper I can make the prophecy fail.
So prophecy is silly, it doesn't matter what God's knowledge are, he can't do it.
>>76261021
It's called syngergism.
Pelagianism says we don't need God's grace to get to heaven.
>>76261022
God sees everything at once, not lineally. You experience time as one moment at a time, but God sees all at once. Imagine you are looking a space linear inch at a time as you go through it; contrast this with someone who sees all points in space at once. Same principle.
>>76261300
*linearly
>>76252218
ask the priest. I know some places, especially smaller churches have post service brunch or coffee where you can talk with the priest.
you can also go to the less populous Saturday vespers and he might be able to talk with you more freely afterwards.
>>76259615
The rest off my post explains why not.
Have you ever met a demon? There isn't a thing in them that isn't corrupted or destroyed. They will never repent. They're already damned.
>>76261854
They are not innately evil, because their soul is created by good. They do evil and act evil, but they don't have an evil "essence" because their essence was created by God and essence is impossible to change, changing essence is even more ridiculous than changing gender.
Has anyone read the transcript of the exorcism of Anneliese?
>>76260164
The sin is in calling the Holy Spirit "impure" even knowing that He does good because doing so is rejecting the goodness of God along with abandoning your own reason. That's why it's unforgivable. Because it's the rejection of God's forgiveness.
Catholics are heretics.
You will die same death as muslims.
>>76262084
The sin is blaspheming the Spirit, and it is unforgivable because the Pharisees didn't know Christ was God, but they knew the Holy Spirit is because the Spirit of God is mentioned frequently in the OT, and the Pharisees are all super well read and religious so they don't have a leg to stand on here.
Tell me something guys and I want you to be honest with me.
I get all this "new crusaders" hype thing. I think its pretty cool that you guys are standing against muslims and SJW degeneracy. I suppose it feels pretty badass as well being the last stronghold again communism.
But how do you concile the fact that, in the end, you cant touch yourself because it makes your god cry? That you cant watch porn and have to dodge your gaze everytime some girl titties are posted on this non safe board? That you cant even say curse words without feeling you dishonored the mouth jesus gave to you.
This makes you look the opposite of badass. This makes you look like massive fags.
You are not Teuton knights, and we need Teuton knights if we are going to win against the Caliphate.
Can't you make up a new Vatican Council or (whatever protestant shit you are into) that makes you man the fuck up? Don't give me that "hrr drr fedora tip"shit, I am on your fucking side - its just that right now you dont inspire as much confidence as you should.
So how about if you stop going all "Jesus I luv u so much pls penetrate me in the ass"and be more pic related?
>>76262805
Wouldn't you agree that our pornographic society is not good?
>>76262206
Constantine, what do you think of the Gospel of Thomas? Do you believe there is a Q source and that Thomas was part of it?
true orthodox here
>>76261957
I don't think you understand how angels work. Angels have free will too, that why some of them fell and became demons.
Their repentance is impossible due to their nature. You are judging them based on the parameters you use for humans. Angels get all the info they need to make a choice, they are not earthly like humans. Because God gives them all that info, when they make a choice, it's impossible for them to say afterwards "mmm, wait I didn't know this, not I changed my mind". Their choices are always educated ones basically. Once they make their decision, there is no coming back. Demons know their choice fucked their shit up, but they will never repent because their decision will never be swayed by new evidence, their bad decision will always be based upon the best of their judgement. Also >>76259398 is right
>>76262805
>Not knowing that hedonism and promiscuity leads to degeneracy.
A Man should not lie with the woman he is not willing to die for.
I would gladly fight a Crusade, I only wish the Pope would take authority and be stronger, and lead us into a new era where we spread Christianity instead of surrender to others.
>>76262933
No, Q source is bunk, I explain why in depth in the fourth paragraph here: http://pastebin.com/9XxNnSU6
Gospel of Thomas is a newish, Gnostic Gospel, and lacks fundamental themes common to all the other Gospels (forgiveness, for instance, does not appear as a theme in the Gospel of Thomas).
>>76263103
Please show me the verse that says angels can't change their mind.
>>76263222
where is the verse that says they can???
>>76263290
I never said they could, I only said we don't know, which is the stance of the Orthodox Church.
>>76263175
How is it bunk? Could it not stand that Mathew and Luke draw on another document(s) to help organize Jesus's teachings? Even if it were notes about that Jesus taught?
What is /pol/'s response to a "fallen woman"? Is she worth marrying?
>>76259237
>pic related
>>76263344
How do you explain things like Mark having no birth narrative, or in some gospels Jesus has a conversation with Pilate, and others he just says like two words to him. Also, how would his disciples know what Jesus said to Pilate when they weren't even with him?
>>76263524
Everyone is worth saving.
Whether or not she's worth marrying is up to you.
I personally want a woman who has my same values, and is saving herself for her husband.
>>76263344
>we don't know
The Orthodox Church doesn't know many things. Besides I remember that you affirmed in the past on /his/ that they can repent with certainty, citing supposed miracles of demons turning into angels in fronte of orthodox priests.
Of course what I have said isn't dogma in the Catholic Church, but it's our best guess about how angels work. God tested them differently from us, their test was a one-time decision, not a life-long series of decisions. Just like our life-long series of decisions, when their one-time decision comes to an end it is absolute.
By saying that they can repent even after being revealed the consequence of failing their test you are creating the precedent that the punishment in hell sn't eternal.
Where's the Neo-Pagan FAQs? The Zoroastrian FAQ? The Wiccan FAQ?
But really, I still disdain Cucktianity and see it as unsuitable for whites, but your atheist FAQ was pretty thought provoking. No time to shitpost about it now though.
>>76262918
I know you have good, biblical reasons to reject pornography and premarital sex.
However you must understand it also makes you look like small children ("eww, titties").
You don't look like valiant warriors, you look like old prude ladies. We don't need women in this war, we need grown men, and you guys being all wusses won't cut.
The world once relied on you to stop the impending darkness, but you were diferent then: better, stronger. We need you to be what you once were, so fucking reform. You done it before, and you can do it now.
>>76263121
Try to understand what I am saying: this is not a problem with your beliefs, is an image problem.
When I think of christians, I dont see a warrior of light burning the heathens, I see a proto SJW complaining of sex and violence in the media ( abeit, for completely different reasons)
So what we need you to do is to reform your faggot side and focus on being a little more pic related
>>76263690
k...keep me posted
>>76263496
No, because Matthew was a first-hand witness and wouldn't need that, and Luke, while not a first-hand witness, could talk directly to people who were.
The whole point of the Q source is to try to come up with an alternative source of their information besides first-hand. There's no reason to assume this, as I demonstrated quite clearly, and since there is no fragment or preservation of a Q source, there is no reason to assume it existed. Certainly no reason to think it is the Gospel of Thomas, which has a ton of things in it that aren't in any of the four Gospels, and is very blatantly Gnostic ("the heaven will pass away and the one above it will pass away")
>>76263743
>>76263743
Isn't Mark confirmed the oldest testament?
>>76263690
>Weeaboo shit
>Making judgements on what is suitable for the white race
Senpai pls
>>76263743
Oops I read that as Luke, not mark. My mistake. never mind this post>>76263849
>>76263603
Mark is, according to Papias, mostly dictated by Peter, and then written into Greek by Mark, with some additions by Mark himself (probably the glosses). Peter was not a witness to Christ's birth and the two probably didn't use other information a lot for the work except what Christ personally told Peter. Matthew contains the birth narrative because Matthew talks to more people but is still mostly about his own version, whereas Luke is completely based on witnesses so he gives a lot of attention to the Nativity.
The disciples talked to Christ after the Resurrection, remember?
>>76263665
>Besides I remember that you affirmed in the past on /his/ that they can repent with certainty, citing supposed miracles of demons turning into angels in fronte of orthodox priests.
My friend, you are lying.
>>76263721
>However you must understand it also makes you look like small children
It makes us look like people concerned that our society is becoming sexually degenerate. Which it is. You might think this is childish, but it's actually quite serious.
>>76263947
nope, I remember it with absolute clarity. Why would I make it up?
>>76263849
No. Matthew is the oldest testament, and I made a strong case for it in that link, you can see for yourself.
Mark is considered a source for Matthew and Luke, and is therefore regarded as the earliest. But, again, see my argument regarding that.
>>76264036
I don't know, maybe you confused someone else with me then. All I know is that what you said is completely untrue.
>>76264118
it was you
>>76263721
There's nothing manly about jacking your own dick while watching a women get fucked by another man.
The ultimate in sexual manhood is to have a woman, be the "head of the wife as Christ is the head of the Church", and keep her in fidelity.
>>76264273
Are you the itally bro who was arguing with that JW guy a day or two ago?
Good day /Christian/ general, how are we all doing tonight?
Northern Hemisphere folk how was mass/church?
>And as always, thank you OP for the thread.
>>76264439
maybe, i usually ignore them
>>76250471
God made nothing into absolute everything for eternity.
Just have to fill up the fallen angels spots with human souls - that will be stable for eternity then that's it - eternal absolute joy in absolute everything created by God.
>>76264626
Did you post images of pro-catholic quotes and stuff?
>>76264273
You are a liar
Find the post and link it
https://desustorage.org/his/
>>76250847
But in orthodoxy - tradition tells that in hell there are "places" with different types of works - and for virtuous pagans there's a spot in hell where there is no work - it's a form of garden for the souls to wait until second coming when Jesus will judge based on every single aspect of life - every idea, every thought and so on - regardless of religion or social context.
>>76255561
filioque for starters
>>76264684
sounds like me
>>76264721
how the hell am I going to find it? the word angel is probably used all the time on /his/
>>76253473
I don't have any thelogical sources but I'll give you my understanding of it.
Suicide comes with hate and fear most of the time. Maybe we could find a case where suicide comes with love, with insight of God, of ourselves, with sacrifice; but if a man who contempts suicide manages to find peace, wisdom or love, I would say that he will escape his fear and hate, then the suicide will not happen anymore.
As an exception, if a man goes to live his life in a cave, desert or forest, to pray and meditate, like the old martyrs, he might get sick, or die of starvation or thirst. He certainly could have taken a different action, to keep him alive, but at his death he was at peace with himself, contemplating the kingdom of heaven.
In the New Testament, Jesus doesn't want us to see sin as a commandment, from God, but we must learn in our hearts that sin is a misunderstanding, a loss of faith, missing the true meaning of Christ.
>>76264721
Hey look the poser tripfag known as Constantine is back - this girl likes to pose as a Christian but when you ask her for help or something practical she refuses to respond back .. just shitposting all day - that's about it.
