How come nobody wants a more equal society? Socialism is what is needed in America. Not more capitalism. I am not a reddit shill
What is this guy sliding
>>76041647
Socialism is state controlled markets.
You're not removing "big businesses" when moving to socialism. You're just combining every single big business into one business with the power to kidnap you and lock you into a cell.
Which would you rather prefer?
>>76041906
Yes but as a democracy at least we could vote on whats good for the people rather than corporations which decide based on shareholders and the board of directors
Make capitalism attractive again. Make the social classes collaborate for common prosperity. People are demoralized and want to abandon capitalism all together because they have been commodified.
but that's what we want anon
for example, we want everyone to have an equal opportunity for employment
instead we accept borderline retarded niggers so we can have muh diversity
it's really not fair to the asians and whites
>>76041647
>Equal society
Never will happen, somebody will find a reason to claim a higher superiority
>>76042010
There's this book called the wealth of Nations written by some guy a while back. You should check it out, might make you think huh?
>>76042010
How well formed is democracy in the United States right now?
Also democracy is a popularity contest, not a contest to find who the best person is. This is why Trump won while his opposition was making legitimately claims (IE Ben Carson)
Again also in Capitalism, you vote with your dollar
Again Again also, politicians don't know what they're doing and are easily bought
>>76042375
Holy autism anon! Its like hes never heard of State controlled capitalism!
here's where you went wrong.
You are assuming I want to be part of a society
I really don't, I just want to go about my business and not really talk to anyone more than I have to.
>>76041647
Equality is not real
>>76042010
> when people vote in a democracy they vote for the general good instead of their own self-interest
K.Y.S
>>76041647
*National Socialism
Fixed that for you.
>>76041647
Because humans aren't equal, they're only born that way.
>>76041906
>what is social democracy
>what is market socialism
>what is decentralized socialism
>>76041647
Fuck off reddit shill
Communism and Socialism are anti-equality.
>>76041647
Can one of you shills explain why equality is a good thing to me? I mean your basis for the belief, not the philisophical one - I'm already familiar with the latter, but so few libruls have any real understanding of it that there must be something else you're going on. Why is equality even fair? And what do you mean by equality in the first place?
All I see is "more burdens on those who have above-average productivity but who aren't rich enough to buy off the politicians including those on the left, in order to fund the importation, housing, and education of the unproductive class." All I see is treating people according to groups and made-up, unquantifiable standards. What does equality mean in real terms, and why is it a moral duty on all of us?
>>76041647
>coercive government
>market based on coercion instead of voluntary free market
>all socialist governments have eventually failed
Get fucked OP.
>>76042818
Equal is relative. Did you know in the 80s capital owners began taking a larger share of profits, giving less to workers? That trend has continued! We seem to have peaked in the 50s. The fire rises! (I am from reddit btw)
>>76041647
"The end-goal of socialism is communism."
>>76043224
It's based on state control superseding personal liberty which in the long term is always a disaster when it removes personal agency.
>>76042875
In any system where people have any sort of power, that power can be bought. The more power they have the more they can be bought. I don't care what nickname you give socialism. It's still giving power to corruptible officials
>>76043073
>coercive government
Government is always coercive then.
>market based on coercion instead of voluntary free market
>Muh invisible hand is not an argument.
>all socialist governments have eventually failed
All governments have eventually failed.
>>76042966
Communism is. socialism is extremely subjective.
>>76043405
Not if it's socialism that gives power to the workers through business cooperatives, workers' councils, or unions.
>>76043405
What if we had a 40K style inquisition type organisation whose job was to root out corruption and violently execute offenders?
>>76043139
That is how things have always been.
A business will only pay enough to get someone to do the job.
Our government has been working to increase the supply of labor. This lowers the value of labor and suppresses wages.
Businesses have always only paid enough to get the job done, the higher wages from years gone past was due to the huge demand for labor.
Now that labor is over abundant, there is no incentive to pay fair wages and offer good benefits.
Greed has always been there. Businesses didn't just decide to start not paying fair wages.
Socialism in any form is only even worth attempting among a largely homogenous, well-educated and ethnically connected population that is willing to sacrifice for its common citizen.
Does that sound anything like the United States of America?
Easy there tiger, you're posting flyover fag trigger words.
>>76043647
The people whose job it is to root out corruption can be corrupted
>>76043645
Everything you just said could be corrupted
>>76043696
Good luck then mother fucker! Cause the lower classes are getting larger while the middle class is shrinking. And inevitably, they will overpower the rich and destroy them. Buckle up buckeroo, America is going to be socialist by 2050
>>76042010
So then itd be a democracy not a communist society you absolute retard
>>76043994
>Democratic Socialism
>Not Communism
Are you retarded? Did you not read my title lol
>>76041647
I like having the opportunity of becoming rich.
You know, just cuz youre poor doesnt mean everyone else wants to be poor too.
>>76043224
The funny thing is that quote is always taken out of context.
Lenin said that, but he had completely different definitions of socialism and communism in mind when he said it. His definitions were such that he was saying that an authoritarian dictatorship would dissolve into an egalitarian, classless, stateless society. Most modern conceptions of the quote insist that social democracy or anything left of center will inevitably turn into authoritarian tyranny. Both viewpoints are complete bullshit and are used by authoritarians to gain power over those willing to believe lies.
>>76043924
If we work to stop mass immigration while redoing trade deals that send our jobs overseas we can create conditions where labor is scarce and worth more.
This would make living wages happen without the government putting its nose up everyone's ass.
>>76043608
>living examples of the inherent failure in socialist structures
>niggerized leaf brain cannot comprehend the flaws of socialist doctrine because it's set to "gibsmedats" and he considers the tax base to be an infinite money machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3BOd8vlRkg
If you insist on denying reality there can't really be a discussion here.
>>76044298
Unless you're a genius in some tech field I doubt you'll become rich
>>76044419
That won't happen because big corporations want that labor. Nice try though?
>>76043774
Technically any social structure can be corrupted. Humans aren't angels. The best thing to do is to accept the existence of human flaws and accordingly create systems that are controllable and accountable.
>>76044505
I work with a guy who is a hotel engineer/repair guy.
Him and his wife work normal jobs and didn't pop out kids, save money and plan. They have two rental properties and are always planning and talking about this investment and that or whatever,
You can get rich, you just have to plan well.
And if you don't see yourself getting rich. Work to set up your kid for success. Save for his college etc.
Then when he gets a head start, he will give his kids a head start, and pretty soon you will have a strong family established.
Getting 'rich' or well off isn't a short term deal. Plan.
>>76041647
>>76044553
Vote Trump and this will happen. His policies are designed to work together to make labor scarce.
Fuck this being a bitch stuff. We need Trump because he actually has the balls to cut them off from the teat of cheap labor.
They will pay more for labor under his policies, but also in turn pay a lower tax rate.
>>76044891
WELL GUESS IM A TRUMP FAN, IF HE DOESNT WIN ITS FULL BLOWN SOCIALISM FOR ME LADS
>>76042025
>Make the social classes collaborate for common prosperity
Absolutely impossible. Capitalism has always been built on subjugation, from the first enclosure of land back in the 16th century to the sweatshops of today. It's capitalism which commodifies everything. It can only end with socialism, and ultimately communism.
A society must pass through a period of capitalism to build up the productive forces and technology. Our task is to take that system and use it to benefit the whole of humanity. Socialism could easily reduce the working week massively with full employment, automation and eliminating useless job sectors which produce nothing of actual value.
Why is it wrong for people to work hard to be on top? Why does everyone have to be on to bottom?
>>76044649
The only systems that are controllable and accountable is a system that is 100% controlled by the people.
And that's fundamentally voting with your dollar. Don't like Google's overreaching business practices? Don't use Google's services.
You can't do the same thing for a government. Don't like the government? Don't pay taxes. Oops, you're now locked in a federal prison
>>76045173
>It can only end with socialism, and ultimately communism.
Hole in Flag revolutions, mate.
>>76044505
Not everyone has what it takes to be rich, but any retard can improve their station through hard work. I grew up in abject poverty and now I make a comfortable salary and drive a nice, new BMW. I'm not particularly skilled or bright, just hard working and not a cunt.
>>76045500
The USSR and eastern bloc states were the first, flawed attempts at building socialist states. They still accomplished a hell of a lot, particularly in terms of infrastructure and technological progress while being isolated from the West (which was always richer).
Capitalism failed miserably at first, feudalism resisted it but it buckled under its own weight eventually, and by the 19th century capitalism dominated. Only recently has capitalism become a truly global system. It will take time but the seeds of its downfall are already planted.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." - Eric Blair
>>76041647
I don't want a more equal society. I want more inequality. I want the weak to be destroyed.
>>76045952
It won't. Your money will not matter when we "weak" people take your house through sheer force
>>76045839
>They still accomplished a hell of a lot, particularly in terms of infrastructure
Okay, I don't know what countries you're talking about, but the infrastructure here is and has always been shit. Swiss cheese roads, constant railway repairs and late trains, I could go on.
>technological progress
As proud as I am of my country, we're still far behind the US and Western Europe tech-wise.
>>76046123
I'd like to see them try
>>76046304
You're gonna get raped
>>76045952
>I want the weak to be destroyed.
don't be surprised when someone stronger destroys you, then
>>76046523
Don't threaten me with a good time
>>76046625
milo pls go
>>76046523
>implying they know how to shoot
>>76045207
Corporations aren't always that passive. Well into the twentieth century in the USA, union members and disgruntled employees often were terrorized or murdered by agents of their employers. Corporate leaders often allied with the state and had the military to come in and break up strikes. That's the milder side of the spectrum. It's even worse in contemporary Latin America, where there is a long history of labor negotiations and disputes turning into bloody conflicts and coups.
>>76048436
>Corporate leaders often allied with the state
Stopped reading right there m8. Just proved my point. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
>>76041647
Only fascism is true liberty
>>76044403
nope.
it goes back to Marx, that's why Lenin kept repeating it. I went to university in the late 1980's in Romania and we were still learning the same ideology. The reason was that nobody could be persuaded that communism could work with mankind as we know it. Nobody. So the ideologues taught us that first a 'new kind of human' has to emerge, incubated within the safe space of a socialist state, a sort of human who would not want to to be anything than another worker bee (my paraphrase, they only implied this). Only then would communism be possible. This is the meaning of the phrase.
>>76041647
That's right goy. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was Communist, not Socialist.
