Your argument of "a raise in min wage will kill business" is bullshit.
If they can't afford to pay them $15/hr, then they don't deserve to be in business.
Case closed..
>>75925833
Price controls in general produce a net negative for the economy and there's very little evidence for the benefits of minimum wage laws.
>>75925833
>If they can't afford to pay them $15/hr, then they don't deserve to be in business.
alright, lets close the government down
>>75925833
What is the business? How many employees do you have? How often do you hire people? Do you have barrier inhibiting require.e ts that prevent low-skilled and no-skilled people from being employed(2+ years in x-related field and other arbitrary demands)?
But OP you CHOOSE to pay then 18 bucks, so why should everyone be required to pay at least 15???
>>75925833
>all my employees
Paying the neighboorhood kids 18 dollars a day under the table doesn't count.
>>75925833
DIRECT DEMOCRACY 2.0 NOW !
>>75925833
>1 store of 4 workers is the determinant for economic policies of 300 million people
Holy fuck you sell retard juice or something?
>>75925833
And yet you people turn around and immediately say that we need a vast brown slave caste who work for less than the minimum wage, because Americans won't [actually can't because min wage] do those jobs.
Anyone who is in favor of illegal immigration and minimum wage is a hypocrite.
Over at Bruce Power here people make ~$70/hr and they sit on their asses all day. I hear that sometimes they even leave some stuff to do for later so when they get called in for overtime they make ~$140/hr. That's BeaverBucks though.
>>75931282
What qualifications tho
>>75931361
Depends on what they're looking for sometimes it's IT, HR, decent amount of engineering. Some girl who got hired for nuclear waste disposal didn't even end up doing that just got transferred to something else right away. Think it's because they're at a nuclear plant so they safety pay or whatever that's called.
>>75927323
you are fucking retarded it has been shown that people in the US who live on the lower eshilions of society generally spend a disproportionate amount more than they take in. meaning that raising the minimum wage would boost the economy significantly, so far as there are people living on it.
here I found a paper that shows what I mean:
https://www.chicagofed.org/~/media/publications/working-papers/2007/wp2007-23-pdf.pdf
if this paper is true(I so far, only read the abstract) than raising the minimum wage would be the best thing the government can do.
I make $22/hr right now at my internship.
>>75925833
Why do you only pay them $18? Why don't you evenly split all the profits with them?
wages are just another form of socialist wealth redistribution. These lazy niggers have such poor work ethic that just doing something productive isn't enough for them, they also demand to stick their hand into my pocket, and the federal government backs them. despicable.
>>75933119
>Inflationary policies are generally good
-The Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago
Cool paper, bro.
>no experience
>apply for job
>"you have no experience"
>i will work for free to gain experience
>"that is illegal"
>still no experience
vs
>no experience
>apply for job
>"you have no experience"
>i will work for free to gain experience
>"okay"
>experience
A B O L I S H
B
O
L
I
S
H
>>75933921
The proper way to handle that situation is to bullshit them into thinking you have experience when you don't. If you're being completely honest while job hunting you're either a nobel prize winner or a fucking retard.
>>75934392
I work at a marketing firm and I lied through my teeth at my interview. I eventually acclimated but I would have much rather gone in with some experience, it would have really saved me from some headaches and embarrassment early on. I don't think that anybody should miss out on legitimate experience because they're unwilling to lie/a bad liar.
>>75933921
If you need experience to sweep floors there is something very wrong with your country
>>75925833
Got any proof there Comrade?
minimum wage attempts to create an artificially cozy environment for the workers, but the rest of the world does not change. This means that you are either in on this manipulated economy, or you're out. And if you're out it's very difficult to get in.
>>75933119
>Federal Reserve Bank
>expecting them to say anything but "inflation is ok"
>>75935224
Experience in sweeping only benefits somebody who only ever wants to sweep. You can get a job as a floor sweeper, but no company will care that you have experience in sweeping when you're applying for a position that does not require sweeping.
I hope you have realized your error my friend.
Let's give people more money! The price of basic items will:
A. Go up. As a consequence of consumers having more money, and of basic goods requiring more to manufacture since they are now manufactured by people who make more money.
B. Remain the same or go down.
If the answer is A, have you really made life better for the people making 15 dollars an hour? Probably, by some margin, but what about the effect on people making 20 dollars an hour? They aren't getting a raise out of this, but they are suffering the downsides of rising costs, and so is everyone else.
A good argument is to ask you "Why 15?" Why not 20? Why not 50? Why not a hundred dollars an hour? Clearly there is some number which is too high for a minimum wage. What evidence do you have that 15 isn't that number or greater?
>>75925833
>>75927323
Then get rid of it. If you're not going to get rid of it, then you have to raise it to counter for years of INFLATION. And at that point I agree with OP, turns out the only reason you were in business is because of an artificial price floor created by the government to hold your labor costs down... you don't deserve to be in business then. Have a better product or service.
Getting rid of minimum wage would actually increase wages too, there is a reason you don't see shitty fast food business calling to abolish it.
>>75933735
inflation in itself is good for the US if it is gradual. it is particularly good because the US accrues a lot of it debt via social security without interest so given that, if the economy inflates the debt will grow smaller.
> Raise Min. Wage, now is $15
> Burger flippers making $15, same shit just paid more.
> Burger flippers boss making $15 demands more, now makes $20
> His Boss made $20, now wants $30/hr because of responsibilities.
You end up with a cascading chain of wage increases, it's NOT just the people on the bottom affected. It's like raising up the bottom floor of a skyscraper.
>>75933921
All this would do is raise the bar for people who want to actually work a paying job. Employers would abuse the hell out of this.
>>75935473
No retard, it's just to prove you can commit to a job.
The only reason you need 6 gorillian years experience to wipe your ass in America is the massive over abundance of college graduates which has completely choked the job market.
Changing the minimum wage won't change that
here is a bone to chew on /pol/
>>75925833
Sigh... just... I know this is a troll but, who else is just /tired/ of this shit?
Like... you're bombarded with it every day. I can't even make a stand anymore... I'm just tired...
>>75935859
Large cities in the US are uninhabitable for poor people with the exception of some awful ghettos due to inflationary policies. Inflationary polices have effects not seen by simply measuring inflation in the aggregate for the whole country.
>>75925833
Why do you pay your employees 18/hr? Serious question, what are the reasons?
>>75936460
http://www.businessinsider.com/minimum-wage-effect-on-jobs-2016-5
forgot the link
>>75925833
I would like for someone to tell me why this is wrong, but "if you only make 7 an hour you only deserve to make 7 an hour! sucks for you, worthless loser!" is okay.
>>75925833
>I pay all my employees $18/hr
post business, location
But, you won't. You're a liar. Your only 'business' is being paid 2 shekels per shitpost from your mommy's basement.
>>75936776
>dox yourself or I'm right
Great argument
>>75925833
>leftist """""""economics"""""""
Close-down snow cone stands.
It's not about whether you can afford it, it's about whether it's worth it. Fast food workers are in no way shape or form worth $15.
A business will only pay someone what they are worth. If a person does not bring in more than 10 dollars per hour, why the fuck would they pay them more than 10 dollars per hour?
The minimum wage argument is fought entirely by people who have not worked actual jobs and don't understand how wages work at all.
>No other posts from OP
shill faggot confirmed.
>>75936238
>over abundance of college graduates
You mean over-abundance of whiny entitled manchildren with no drive or work ethic. The "experience" thing in low-skill job is to filter out the faggots who will throw a tantrum and walk out because you told them to do their job without saying please.
>>75925833
So go ahead and vote Bernie
Come back in 1 year and see if your employees not crying to raise min wage to $22
>>75936522
Why do cucks watch cuck porns?
>>75936776
High level buisenesses that only employ a few thousand people do that all the time
>>75936860
Telling someone what business they own isn't a dox stupid fake Aussie
>>75935921
More money distributed to wage laborers at the expense of capital is not a bad thing at this particular moment though
>>75925833
How much of a raise are you willing to give your $18/h employees? Because if the min wage is raised, you'll be forced to give raises too because the value of their labor just decreased, so they'll need to be compensated. They could, after all, go and work an easier min wage job for a small pay cut if you don't pay up, because all of a sudden they're only worth $3 more than a burger flipper when before they were worth over $11 more.
Do you even economics?
>>75936488
it is not "inflationary policies" that cause disparities in the cost of living accumulations, but rather the free market, simple laws of supply and demand and the such like can explain why the cost of living is so high in places like new york.
or do you think there was no inflation prior to the minimum wage?
Remove business tax
Remove minimum wage
Remove patents
Remove bureaucratic red tape and needless taxes labeled as fees
In no case has raising minimum wage shown to increase wealth. It has actually shown to increase unemployment.
>>75936938
There are other uses for an increased minimum wage other than "deserving it".
I would hope that spending time on /pol/ would make you realise government works by making economic decisions and placates the people with social decisions.
Increasing the minimum wage would increase the buying power of the lower class
>b b but everything will get more expensive
That hasn't been shown in the past but even if it did the lower class still have a higher proportion of buying power compared to other classes than they did before.
>>75937131
It's pretty simple to look up the owner dipshit
>>75925833
I LOVE THIS TOPIC.
Okay, so if a person makes more money, clearly they do better right?
That doesn't cause a companies business model, the yield curve model that some of you learned in econ 101 to obscure off now does it.
You see, if i own a company, and i've owned and still do, everything from drywall and paint only companies to landscape and IT consulting.
now if i pay my workers 100 million dollars an hour, do you think they will do better? if everyone does?
wait, how can i afford to do this, OH YAH, THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY PRICE GOES UP.
now, your on fixed income, retirement, social security.. you can't just raise your rate..
DO YOU NOW SEE YOU FUCKING MORONS. DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM.
the solution is lower wages.. yes thats right you lower wages. YOU ATTACK PRICE MODELS OF COMMODITIES AND SERVICES, and drive down the cost.
how?
firm economy, strong dollar, strong political outlooks.. granted global elitists don't want this.
but let me make it clear.
from a true economic standpoint.
EVERYONE benefits from a market place where commodities services and or goods are affordable and wages are within reason.
if mcdonalds pays its workers 15.. and trained professionals make 15.. wheres the benefit?
McDonald businessmen model isn't designed for this.
NOW THE HARD PART THE LEFT WING RETARDS, WHO I NEVER SAW IN ANY OF MY DUAL MAJOR COURSES...i did econ and finance. now i trade futures.
but lemme put this in your safe space.
MOM AND DAD
can't afford to pay everyone 15 an hour.
MOM AND DAD
can't afford to pay everyone perfect healthcare.
MOM AND DAD
can't afford to spend time scheduling minors this hour not that hour and only these many hours..
DO YOU SEE WHO YOUR HURTING FAGS?
raising min wage to a living wage only increases the price of everything you buy
AND CUTS THE LABOR FORCE.
this IS how it works.
stop being a dumb fucking tool to the system.
WAKE UP.
>>75925833
1 post by this ID
>>75937479
>Increasing the minimum wage would increase the buying power of the lower class
that is essentially welfare paid by the rest of society
>>75937267
Rent and housing costs specifically have increased by zoning laws that restrict the height of apartment building and land use laws that restrict where apartment building may be built. The free market does not make cities uninhabitable for poor people.
>>75935921
I wanted to say this, thank you.
I make $25/hr currently, if minimum wage goes up to $15/hr, I expect a proportional raise myself. If everyone gets a proportional raise, you've actually accomplished NOTHING except making the dollar worth less.
>>75937835
In a way, but the idea is to stimulate the economy.
>>75937739
The minimum wage has been raised before and none of that happened.
>>75925833
Ok so they get out of business because they literally can't compete anymore and all that's left is large corporations who can absorb the costs. Now they have less competition and even a lesser reason to raise wages or lower prices.
And what will happen to your employees who make $18 an hour? Businesses will increase the prices of goods to offset their losses. Your employees aren't affected by the minimum wage hike and now the cost of goods and services cost more. You've lowered their standard of living.
And what about the workers who aren't worth $15 an hour? They won't get hired. These are mostly the poorest and most vulnerable members of society. Employers would rather hire higher quality workers if you're setting a price floor for all workers. The minimum wage prices these low skilled workers out of the market, prevents them from gaining experience, and keeps them on handouts.
>>75925833
>law firms pay their employees more than minimum wage therefore minimum wage should be six figures
this is how stupid you sound OP
hey goys net productivity has increased and according to this aberage that totally disguises the variety in the market, we can TOTALLY afford to have the job market drastically reduced to few employers
>>75938243
Again this theory is disproven by history
>>75937918
All that extra money spent across the board on wages ultimately comes at the expense of capital gains though, most of which go to a select few very wealthy
>but they can just raise prices
Then, theoretically at least, they risk being undercut and losing business to their competitors
>>75938384
Nice argument.
>>75938327
Poor people spend money. The water would actually recede.
>>75937835
what increases the buying the demand is more important than the creation of buying power.
what drives revolutions in industry and prolonged growth of society.
advancement.
smart phone and mobile device sales are stagnating currently, see bloomberg.
we need a new advancement that improves peoples lives, creates jobs and creates social wellness. so people reach out to embrace and take part.
the problem.
uneducated populations don't create new products or and or services they don't understand.
greedy corporations are designed to maximize current investor value.
and leaders just want to stay in power.
war used to increase gdp.
technology has slowed.
income to buy new technology is drying up.
and the new kids on the block aren't smart enough or better yet driven as entrepreneurs to develop it.
society looks as though its about to literally collapse.
kids are more about twitter and face book likes, than going out and creating something.
we wasted an entire generation. i just hammer this shit out sometimes, if something doesn't make sense or intrigues you lemme know. this site used to actually create more than memes and trolls.
>>75938506
I shouldn't need to spoon feed you
Link here, read the thread next time
>>75936550
>boy I sure do hate big businesses!
>let's increase the minimum wage and drive small businesses out of business and give more of a monopoly to big businesses!
>>75938549
Not if unemployment skyrockets.
>>75938384
Actually if you look at history this is exactly the case. The average age of minimum wage workers has been increasing. Because people fresh into the job market with no skills aren't as desirable because you need to pay them artificially higher prices. And if you look even further, black unemployment has a huge correlation with minimum wages because they weren't desired and were usually low skilled. It's when the minimum wage did not exist or did not catch up to inflation was it that black unemployment was lower. And it's very obvious that if you increase the cost of labor the quantity demanded of labor will decrease. Business will want to make up the money they lose by minimum wages. They will either employ less or raise prices or do what fast food restaurants are trying to do by automating everything.
>>75938549
>le minimum wage creates demand xdd!
False. You're committing a broken windows fallacy by saying that demand would increase. Overall spending would stay the exact same because you have to achieve the minimum wage hike by lowering the employer's disposable income that would be used elsewhere in the market.
>>75925833
Cheap prostitutes don't count, m8
>>75938853
Why would unemployment sky rocket. You said before unemployment would be a result of net revenue being lost, now you are saying net revenue will be lost because of unemployment.
How does that work? It makes no sense
>>75939026
And again
>>75936550
>>75938726
>instead of giving an argument I'll link through piles of sources you have to read to understand my superior beliefs
In a free market you can pay your employees anything you want, it's ultimately the employee's choice if they want to work for the pay you are offering
>>75925833
Your a dumb shit and I hope you enjoy bankruptcy
>>75925833
Kikes will just move their shit elsewhere to keep making those shekels.
Raising the minimum wage alone won't be enough.
>>75939298
>wow evidence I don't have to accept this.
Fuck off
Also
>1 article with links backing up its claims
>a mess of links
Just stop posting next time nigger
>>75939586
You haven't refuted my argument you've just linked a source that I'm still reading faglord.
>>75939664
I did refute it when I told you history proves your hypothesis wrong.
>>75937912
and yet new york city would not be the sprawling metropolis it is without them.
Minimum wage needs raised because the extremely under valued cost of labor is suppressing technological progress.
>2016
>self check out is cutting edge technology
>literally just the same UPC scanners with some extra scales for weight verification
>Bernie's campaign can't afford it
>>75933119
Yet the Federal Reserve says minimum wages decrease employment...
http://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economic-letter/2015/december/effects-of-minimum-wage-on-employment/
http://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economic-letter/2015/december/reducing-poverty-via-minimum-wages-tax-credit/
https://www.richmondfed.org/publications/research/econ_focus/2014/q3/feature3
>>75939779
What's the analytical reasoning that it is wrong? I'm looking at the full report here and it just looks like they conflated a bunch of statistics from 70 year period together without controlling for anything.
http://www.nelp.org/content/uploads/NELP-Data-Brief-Raise-Wages-Kill-Jobs-No-Correlation.pdf
>>75925833
>businesses dont deserve to be open
>we deserve jobs
>>75940019
Bernie's campaign also produces nothing of worth and has stupid practices like refusing donations without having another viable system in place.
It deserves to die.
>>75939933
That's not the only city in the US and most poor people can't afford to live or shop in most of NYC.
>>75933735
Inflation can be good.
If you're in debt, it causes the debt to shrink. If you're poor and can't afford to save money, it doesn't effect you.
If you're rich, it compels you to actually use your money, rather than horde it.
>>75940143
What would they control for that isn't covered by the fact it's 70 years worth of data?
>>75939156
The cost of labor rises for businesses so workers get laid off. Many businesses fail because simply cannot hire workers at the new cost. Workers who do stay are the few who get to spend a little more as consumers. Guess how much the raise of a few compares to the cut hours and skeleton crews of many
>>75940643
But that's backwards the cost of labour rising does not immediately result in having to lay off staff while it does immediately result in greater spending.
>>75925833
Why not just lower the cost of goods and living?
>>75941023
How?
>>75925833
>1 post by this ID
Shitposting
>>75940507
Do you think poor people are unaffected by restrictions on the housing supply or the adverse effects of minimum wage on low skilled workers?
>>75939586
>>75939779
http://www.nelp.org/content/uploads/NELP-Data-Brief-Raise-Wages-Kill-Jobs-No-Correlation.pdf
>We sought to go back as far as possible—to 1938 in some cases—to make simple before and-after comparisons of job-growth trends 12 months after each minimum-wage increase.
>12 months of industries that we get to pick and choose
Source invalidated. The entire thing is about unemployment and doesn't even refute the argument about price increases being a consequence of minimum wages. As I said earlier, employers have the option to either increase prices or employ less people, and your source doesn't even successfully refute the argument that it lowers demand for jobs. It doesn't control or look for other factors that could be affecting their results like the bay boom.
This is what I meant when I said you throw a pile of sources at me. The original article linked to another article where it got its source from and it linked to the full report. You can't even make an analytical argument from your flawed shitty data so you just throw a bunch of sources you didn't even fucking read at me and claim victory.
>>75940955
It does lead to immediate lay offs for some businesses.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/justinholcomb/2016/04/18/uc-berkley-forced-to-cut-500-jobs-after-15-minimum-wage-n2149066
>>75935622
Prices are going up anyways.
>>75941468
Those are shit business then, back to op's point. The vast majority are fine
>>75940955
But that's backwards the cost of labour rising does not immediately result in having to lay off staff while it does immediately result in greater spending.
True but that's usually because they're stuck with employees under contracts and they usually don't automatically fire someone once the minimum wage is increased, but it's basic macro and the law of demand that if the price of something increases the quantity demand will decrease. Can you give me a reason why employers would seek more employees than usually if a minimum wage hike has occurred?
>>75941190
>Do you think poor people are unaffected by restrictions on the housing supply
They can't buy a house anyway.
>the adverse effects of minimum wage on low skilled workers?
They're going to kill the jobs with automation anyway. It doesn't matter if there was no minimum wage, or a $20 an hour minimum wage, the jobs that can be killed by automation will be killed by automation, and the jobs that can be outsourced will be outsourced.
There isn't enough jobs for everyone already, with an increasing population and newer technology, in the future this will certainly be true.
The real rate of unemployment will rise to extreme levels. Most of those people will want a job, but no one will hire them. This will result in either basic income (paid for by taxing the super-rich more, and printing more money), or the collapse of modern society.
>>75927424
-.-
>>75941106
How the fuck should should I know? People who wants higher minimum want to be able to afford things that cost more than they can afford, people who are against raising minimum wage say they are afraid of it raising prices.
Lowering the price of goods would be a goal both sides could actually agree on and work towards instead of arguing.
>>75925833
Yeah let's just raise minimum wage to $30 an hour. Anyone who can't afford it doesn't deserve to be in business.
Let's just kill off all the businesses to help the economy.
>>75941765
>They can't buy a house anyway.
Tenants have to help pay off the apartment building's mortgage.
>They're going to kill the jobs with automation anyway. It doesn't matter if there was no minimum wage, or a $20 an hour minimum wage
Read about the balance of labor and capital in Basic Economic by Thomas Sowell.
>>75941850
This is one of the most blatant/retarded examples of a strawman argument I've seen.
>>75941340
We were talking about unemployment weren't we?
I'm the only person left arguing for minimum wage rise sorry, having 3 or 4 simultaneous arguments.
This argument has been had already at the start of this thread.
>>75942033
But if the logic that raising the minimum wage somehow creates demand and economic activity than it should work at every level no?
>>75940127
the first study argues that there is an increase in unemployment in the 16-24 age group not that there is a net increase in unemployment.
but personally I see that claim as being rather suspect, though it can be do to my ignorance on how the unemployment figure is calculated in this age group, for I would see it as the hardest figure to derive simply because that age group is transitioning into the work force and what not
I would say more but I must go do shit.
>>75942012
>Read about the balance of labor and capital in Basic Economic by Thomas Sowell.
No.
This isn't hard to figure out, even if you removed the minimum wage and paid people something ridicolous like $1 an hour, automating the job with technology would still be cheaper, and thus capitalists will do it.
>>75941675
Poor people buying more shit with thier wage increases
>>75942100
I mentioned multiple factors concerning minimum wages >>75938243
I'm still reading the article and it has mentioned the argument I made about low skilled workers but I'm still looking for their direct refutation of it.
>>75942204
There's are reasons why businesses utilize both labor and capital and policies that force that balance in one direction or the other you will create inefficiencies.
>>75927323
>there's very little evidence for the benefits of minimum wage laws.
There is a strong correlation between a functioning welfare system and the stability of a nation. Business is far less risky when criminal organisations don't have an endless supply of desperately poor to recruit. Welfare is a bribe to stop the poor turning to crime.
In a welfare state minimum wage exists to prevent business from using welfare to subsidise their labour costs, putting extreme burden on the system and making it unstable as a consequence.
Because many have forgotten to look at the system like this the thresholds/rules have been tainted and the system is not as efficient as it should be but the core functionality still stands.
>>75925833
>deserve
This word is meaningless.
>>75942012
>Tenants have to help pay off the apartment building's mortgage.
Also what the fuck are you talking about?
They could pay rent for an apartment for their entire life, far exceeding the worth of the property, but they'll never own it.
>>75942555
If the apartment building is more expensive rent must increase proportionally to make apartment buildings a viable investment.
>>75942464
>There is a strong correlation between a functioning welfare system and the stability of a nation
The US grew for centuries without a welfare state
Ever since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and the US governments forcing of wage/workers right laws, corporations have been throwing shitfits.
>a MINIMUM WAGE?! we'll be bankrupt in a year!
>a 40 hour work week?! we'll be bankrupt in a year!
>workman's compensation?! we'll be bankrupt in a year!
>OSHA forcing us to make safe, clean working enviroment for our employees?! we'll be bankrupt in a year!
>another minimum wage increase?! we'll be bankrupt in a year!
repeat above one like 30 times
>OVERTIME pay to employees working over 40 hours?! we'll be bankrupt in a year!
And yet corporate profits increase every year and have never been higher...
>>75942788
That's back when anyone could easily get a job.
Over 70% of all jobs in the US used to be in agriculture, now almost none are.
>>75925833
Companies are already leaving the country to pay their employees less.... so what do you think will happen when the min wage is even higher? Case closed.
OP is long gone, you stupid fish.
>>75942464
>There is a strong correlation between a functioning welfare system and the stability of a nation.
[ciation needed]
>In a welfare state minimum wage exists to prevent business from using welfare to subsidise their labour costs,
In the US single healthy men only get food stamps which is mostly just a subsidy for the food industry and women incapable of holding down a well paying job or a successful marriage should not be in charge of raising children and therefore should not receive welfare.
>>75942846
They increase every year and have never been higher because they support minimum wages. Large businesses are very liberal. That is because minimum wages don't actually hurt giant corporate monoliths. You're not one-upping Wal-Mart or McDonalds when you increase the minimum wages. You're hurting their competitors and making a hospitable environment for corporations. Now they don't have to compete because you killed off their only competitors. Now they have no reason to increase wages naturally or reduce prices.
>>75943029
Which companies are leaving the US?
>>75942788
When it had a frontier yes, when there is a glut of new resources there for the taking expansion is easy.
Expansion however is not stability, eventually you run out of clay and stabilise, go to war to acquire other's clay or the nation eats itself.
Many nations of history went with the constant expansion option, only the ones that abandoned the practice early enough to still have the resources to stabilise survived.
>>75943029
They would be doing that even if there wasn't a minimum wage at all.
/pol/ just hates poor people. They ride off their mommy and daddy's wealth and say "fuck the poor".
>>75942946
What's your point? As technology has grown we've created more industries for labor. There are a lot of jobs that didn't exist back then.
>>75943099
Ford... and many others. Nabisco etc
>>75943167
>What's your point?
That there's not enough jobs for everyone. Back then anyone could easily get a job, now people struggle to get the lowest jobs in society, like fast food or retail.
I would 1000x rather do farm work in field than work at Walmart.
>>75943167
But that technology can be operated by cheaper labor overseas.
>>75943129
No, they wouldn't be doing that. I talked to a VC who refused to give me money if I didn't make my product in China because he said it will cost too much in the USA to make.
>>75925833
>deserve
I guess China doesn't exist.
>>75935921
This doesn't happen senpai.
>>75943258
That's exactly what they said during the industrial revolution. People struggle to get the lowest jobs in society because of your fucking minimum wages and importation of spics. This is some serious cognitive dissonance you are having.
>>75943262
Because of regulations like minimum wages that make it unprofitable to conduct business here.
>>75943129
>le u just hate da poor ppl arguement
Stop with this retarded bullshit. If you actually cared about the poor you would stop pricing them out of the market with minimum wages. Refer to >>75938243 and >>75939026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TGkfjaxFWs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-FqtAOSB8
Minimum wage and welfare hurts the poor. Outside of racism, Blacks were much better off in the early 20th century, economically speaking.
>>75943481
>Because of regulations like minimum wages that make it unprofitable to conduct business here.
The government has to shut that "sending jobs overseas" shit down.
One of the advantages of being based in America is things like:
>bankruptcy protection
>not having to worry about General Burrito taking over your headquarters and nationalizing your business
>>75943481
Thank you for fighting the good fight senpai... these Fools hate their own country.
>>75925833
>If they can't afford to pay them $15/hr, then they don't deserve to be in business.
"fuck all small businesses" - the neighborhood bourgeoisie communist
>>75925833
oh yeah no worries, 18 an hour it is, I'll just fire half my staff and install these first :^)
>>75942237
They aren't buying more shit if the prices for everything are higher.
>>75943481
> People struggle to get the lowest jobs in society because of your fucking minimum wages
People struggle to get jobs because new technology automates the jobs out, the jobs are outsourced, and the population is increasing while jobs aren't.
>your importation of spics
I am very anti-immigrant. Perhaps you're just delusional and think I must be "one of those damn SJWs"?
You can be economically leftist, but otherwise far-right. What do you think national socialism is?
Why is it so hard for /pol/ to admit that unrestrained capitalism doesn't work? Why do they hate the poor and falsely believe everything is 100% their fault, while the system itself and the rich are blameless?
>>75925833
You began an argument thread without arguing your point. Fuck off.
Saged
>>75943632
Blacks had the greatest middle class in the history of the world... just look at 1950s Detroit... and then the democrats took over black neighborhoods in 1962 and demolished the black community literally overnight. The first female self made millionaire also happened to be a black woman. Blacks fucked themselves real good since 1962.
>>75943194
>Ford
Ford is moving their compact car production to Mexico. Not the entire fucking company.
Same with Nabisco, they're just outsourcing a few jobs. Not the majority.
You're making it sound like they're moving their headquarters to Tijuana.
>>75925833
The minimum wage goes from 10 to 15$ an hour overnight
Your employees went from making REALLY GOOD MONEY to not even 30% above minimum fucking burger flipping wage.
>>75943832
Again, a lot of these problems you have pointed out are caused by government intervention. We've literally heard reports already that businesses are going to automate more because of minimum wages. Regulations are the reason a lot of jobs are outsourced because the barrier to enter into an industry is so high in the US due to regulations.
>>75925833
Top tier bait my friend.
>>75933119
>eshilion
>here's a source I didn't read
You have no business calling anyone a retard
>Fuck the poor, get jobs you lazy pieces of shit
>You got a job and can't afford to live off the pay? Fuck you hahaha *ignores that tax payers pay for their welfare because the huge corporations don't pay them a living wage*
>Higher minimum wage? Hahaha enjoy your job being automated, even though that is going to happen even without a minimum wage
/pol/ is retarded
>>75944127
>We've literally heard reports already that businesses are going to automate more because of minimum wages.
They would have done that even if minimum wage was $2 an hour.
And there's some things you can't automate. The self checkout line at Home Depot always has at least 1 employee working their because the customers are too fucking stupid to use it.
>>75942464
The problem here is you expect the US to act as a welfare system. It shouldn't. It should act as a free market, as was intended. Things started turning to shit when the government got involved.
>>75925833
Why dont you pay them 25$/h? If you cant pay them 25 bucks per hour, clearly your business plan isnt working and you dont deserve to be in business.
>>75943763
Good luck with that.
Most customers can barely operate a cell phone and you expect FAST FOOD customers to push buttons on a screen to get the order exactly the way they want it? They'll be calling for a manager within 2 minutes, thus holding up the line, thus hurting your productivity.
>>75944127
>businesses are going to automate more because of minimum wages
They are going to do that even if there was no minimum wage.
>Regulations are the reason a lot of jobs are outsourced
You could get rid of whatever red-tape you want, have things practically unrestricted, have no minimum wage, but jobs would still be outsourced because the labor in some place like China is cheaper.
>>75935224
Thanks to a few explotable laws, companies can bring in foreign workers to do the jobs on the cheap if they show that they can't find an American. So now we have entry level, low pay positions with absurd requirements so that the company can say they tried to hire an American first, they just couldn't find somebody with a Bachelor's degree and 4 years of experience to sweep the floors for minimum wage.
>>75936477
Never give up. If you give up, the psycho-lefties win. We fight until our last breath.
>>75944292
That's strawman bullshit.
There should be some kind of formula for minimum wage. Incorporating factors like inflation, cost of living, taxes, etc to get you a number. Just throwing out arguments like "herr derr why don't you make it $99 an hour!" is stupid.
>>75944254
>They would have done that even if minimum wage was $2 an hour.
A minimum wage of $2 an hour is effectively getting rid of the minimum wage because no one would work there. I would actually hope that businesses still look into further automation. Work is a means to an end not an end itself.
>>75944617
> I would actually hope that businesses still look into further automation. Work is a means to an end not an end itself.
Good, I do too. The problem is that you're going to have to do something with all the unemployed people who can't get jobs.
You will need basic income (and anti-immigration laws preventing immigrants from getting it)
>>75925833
>1 post by this ID
Really, guys.
>>75944617
>A minimum wage of $2 an hour is effectively getting rid of the minimum wage because no one would work there
They would find some Mexicans or something.
You're totally braindead if you think increasing minimum wage = pushing business owners to automation.
The minimum wage could be $.01 an hour and they would still go to automation. Humans get tired, hurt, call in sick, bitch and moan about conditions, etc. An automated machine doesn't.
But in all fairness we've reached the automated saturation point, it won't get any higher than it is now.
Tech companies are using cheap Asian labor at Foxconn. Not automated factories at Foxconn. Self checkouts need employees to monitor them because customers are fucking stupid. The whole "lets replace McDonald's workers with computer screens" is the worst idea ever because most McDonald's customers are probably on the lowest end of the IQ chart. And self driving cars will probably never happen.
>>75944495
There is:
minimum wage = whatever someone is ready to work for.
If you pay less than living wage, they wouldnt work for you.
>>75943934
LBJ and the Democrats fucked them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weqQR-NnnIs
>>75944893
I'm not seeing the problem with this though. If this does happen then people would be able to get necessities much cheaper. The price wouldn't stay the same if the cost of production is suddenly lower. How does this justify the minimum wage though?
>>75944971
You're a fucking retard. A business will ALWAYS be able to find either some immigrant (illegal or legal), or nutso willing to work for pennies on the dollar.
>>75925833
>all my employees
>has 3 employees
gtfo do you know how many people work for mcdonalds?
>>75945015
>If this does happen then people would be able to get necessities much cheaper.
You think the businesses are going to LOWER prices on their goods/services? Holy fuck you're stupid.
>How does this justify the minimum wage though?
That wasn't my argument. Your argument was that minimum wage = bad because owners will automate. My argument is owners will automate anyway (if they can).
>>75945084
Why do you hate poor people so much you want to put them out of work?
>>75925833
If you don't want to work for $9 an hour, then don't.
Case closed.
>>75937219
nobody has ever done this
>>75945314
I want poor people to be paid a proper wage. If they work for slave wages they will always be poor.
>>75945241
Are there really so many of you here that are so stupid you don't realize that automation like that is going to replace workers even if there was no minimum wage?
>>75945484
If they dont work at all because all the jobs they can do are below minimum wage, they're much worse off.
>>75945260
>You think the businesses are going to LOWER prices on their goods/services? Holy fuck you're stupid.
>What is competition
>What is supply and demand
What good would it do to keep the prices high if no one could fucking buy it.
>>75945484
This has been refuted >>75938243 and >>75939026
>>75945622
>all the jobs they can do are below minimum wage
You don't grasp the concept. MINIMUM WAGE puts even the WORST and LOWEST SKILLED jobs in the MINIMUM WAGE category. A guy who has to clean up dog shit will get MINIMUM WAGE.
>>75945700
No it hasn't, stupid.
>>75925833
>The monkey is now the organ grinder
>>75925833
Bernie doesn't pay his workers $15 an hour
>>75925833
ILLUMINATI SHILL
THEY WARNED US THE SHILLING WOULD BE RAISED
YOURE NOT EVEN A BUSINESSMAN YOURENOTHING
>>75939156
>Own mom&pop store, make $10 a day from sales
>MacDoodle's earns $100 a day from sales
> Stores suddenly have to now pay workers a collective total of $15 a day.
>Mom 'n Pop store is now -$5 per day
>MacDoodle's store is now $95 in profit
>Inability to sustain workers cause food industry crash, resulting in the foreclosure of 70% of the food industry, leaving only the larger businesses.
>Unemployment leaves many without money or a job, as food industry was the only real option, especially since the factories closed
>Riots
>>75945640
>What good would it do to keep the prices high if no one could fucking buy it.
You're barely keeping up in the conversation. Let me spell it out for you.
>business sell shoelaces for $1 a pair
>pays workers $10 an hour
>fires all workers and makes everything automated
>still sells shoelaces for $1 a pair
Why do you think a business would just magically lower their prices because of going automated?
>>75945796
>MINIMUM WAGE puts even the WORST and LOWEST SKILLED jobs in the MINIMUM WAGE category.
No it doesn't. It makes them compete against other people who are actually worth the minimum wage and they don't get hired. It prices them out of the market.
>>75945796
If a job provides less value to the employer than the minimum wage, he wont hire someone to do it.
Jesus christ americans are retarded.
I pay $45/hour to my employee's. I'm the only one because fuck everyone else.
>>75945956
They say this shit EVERYTIME there's a minimum wage increase. They've been saying it since the CREATION of minimum wage. Only a retard falls for this meme.
>>75945484
Minimum wage does not help poor people move out of poverty on average.
https://youtu.be/3ZDcMjz2hVk?t=1m
>>75946015
No it doesn't. They might not get THAT job, but they can get another minimum wage job.
I'd rather have employees try to one up each other in skillset/hard work than have employees lowering their fees to the point of complete insanity.
>>75946022
#NotAllAmericans
Only the retards, communists and the poor want it
I guess it can be reduced to just the retards, as communists and the poor are sort of synonymous of retardation anyway
>>75945828
Great counter argument
>>75925833
>my small business can afford to pay its 2 workers $18/h and anyone who doesnt is bad!!!!
thats you
thats how fucking stupid you are
>>75946022
>If a job provides less value to the employer than the minimum wage, he wont hire someone to do it.
Yeah, the owner will pick up shit on his own.
Stay cucked you fucking frog.
>>75946079
Yet, it's so hard to create a business unless you first have a lot of capital stored
A lot of the time, they can't really move up from a single store because they're using their family to run it.
Massive taxes make it difficult to pay for employees without forcing them to only work part time in the event that you happen to have more than 50 or so hired in order to run your two quick-e-marts
>>75946181
>I'd rather have employees try to one up each other in skillset/hard work
But your minimum wages are denying people the ability to get a stronger skillset through on the job training and experience because now that they have to compete with more qualified people they can't get a job. This is seen in the average age of minimum wage workers increasing each year.
>They might not get THAT job, but they can get another minimum wage job.
This part explains nothing
>>75946236
So you admit that minimum wages decrease the demand for labor? Glad we agree.
>>75925833
>If they can't afford to pay them $15/hr, then they don't GET to be in business.
They close up shop and the jobs go away. ANd you get less competition.
How did this help?
>>75946325
>Massive taxes make it difficult to pay for employees without forcing them to only work part time in the event that you happen to have more than 50 or so hired in order to run your two quick-e-marts
That's a different issue.
I'm all for increasing minimum wage and LOWERING small business taxes.
>>75946342
Based on your logic all employers have to do is go to the local insane asylum, find the most functional ones, pay them $.25 an hour and be done with it. Don't you see how crazy that is?
>>75946380
>o you admit that minimum wages decrease the demand for labor?
No stupid. You said "herr derr the wages will go so high that they won't pay people to perform those tasks." What I'm saying is that in business stuff needs to get down and business owners will always crack and pay the minimum wage in order to get the work done (either that or do it themselves, but they didn't start a business to do the worst parts of it themselves).
You really have zero grasp of the mind of a business owner.
>>75945965
>new automation is discovered
>other rival businesses adopt the same automation
>they compete
>lower prices
Market at work friendo
>>75946421
the costs of running a business in general make it less than ideal for smaller business owners to make a living with their own shops that they built from the ground up.
Taxes take the piss out of the majority of their income; Wage manipulation over seas makes it impossible for goods to be exported without
being out-competed, workers must be payed more and more money in order to satisfy the growing costs of minimum wage, resulting in
the growing costs of the product
Meanwhile the countries that manipulate their currency continue to beat out the competition,
leading to less sales.
The company enters a deficit from lack of over seas sales, and has the choice to go robotic
and give up employees, or to drop the business
Smaller businesses that cannot afford the machinery foreclose.
>>75946636
>You said "herr derr the wages will go so high that they won't pay people to perform those tasks.
Wasn't me but he's right. They'll look for ways of getting out of it if it's not worth it. This is basic macro. Even if they did hire someone would it be the same amount if the minimum wage did not exist? Regardless, you're making it harder for businesses to even get on their feet by creating a larger barrier of entry, stifling competition and keeping corporations that already exist in power.
>>75946506
If they're functional they'll demand a wage that makes up for the extra calories burned or they'll walk away from the deal. If they're not functional they should remain hospitalized. You seem to be under the impression that functional adults need to be protected form their own voluntary labor.
>>75946671
That's different. Now were waiting on the rivals to adopt the same strategies. And odds are only the bold (and probably underperforming company) to lower their prices first.
>>75946506
What the fuck are you even talking about.
>>75946904
>If they're functional they'll demand a wage that makes up for the extra calories burned or they'll walk away from the deal.
Incorrect. According to you an employer can just go an find a guy that can physically do a job, but has the brain capacity of a slow child. He can work him for $.15 an hour but the guy is too mentally disabled to understand that he's being underpaid. In fact he probably doesn't care either way if he gets paid or not because he's so mentally disabled. But he's smart enough and phyiscally able enough to do the job.
According to you, an employer has the right to do this.
>>75946937
What's hard to understand. You're against the minimum wage laws. What you're saying is that in extreme cases all an employer has to do is find a functional person with minimum intellectual capacity and pay him $.25 to do the job he needs.
To you this is ok. To me it's not ok because he should be paid minimum wage.
>>75944376
>Most customers can barely operate a cell phone
facebook has a billion users, try again grampa
>>75925833
>they don't deserve to be in business.
and their employees don't deserve to have jobs. If you earn less than $15 an hour as an adult you should literally kill yourself. Minimum wage jobs are for teenagers, by constantly raising the minimum wage you are simply driving teenagers out of the work force. Have fun with even fewer college graduates with any idea how the hell a job works.
>>75946846
>They'll look for ways of getting out of it if it's not worth it.
That almost never happens (at least long term). I remember years ago at my job they got rid of all the data entry people and tried to have us non-data entry people do it. Eventually people quit and in the end they had to rehire new people and brought back the data entry department.
>>75947254
That's the biggest strawman I've ever heard and I've been on /pol/ for years. If someone accepts being paid 25 cents then what's the problem, it's voluntary exchange. Now on the topic of mentally impaired people I do think that the same standards of consent and voluntary exchange don't apply. Mentally retarded people are not the standard and do not represent the entire country. In other words, not an argument.
>>75947308
>cellphone operations = facebook
Millenials, folks.
>>75947308
I don't know man. Working at walmart and the main problem at the self check out line (in which 4 employees watch over) is old fucks that can't even use the touch screen. Every fucking day with this shit. Some people just plain forget how to use it and get pissed at us for there stupidity.
>>75945965
Yeah and if producing shoelaces became costly they would still sell them for 1$ a pair.
>>75947423
>If someone accepts being paid 25 cents then what's the problem, it's voluntary exchange.
So you think it's OKAY for an employer to go to the bottom of the intellectual barrel and pay them next to nothing? It's a "voluntary exchange", in that one party barely has any concept of what's going on.
>Mentally retarded people are not the standard and do not represent the entire country.
Neither do illegal immigrants. But you have no problem throwing out the minimum wage for them.
>>75947536
No they wouldn't. The market reacts to increases (whether it's taxes, minimum wage, price of gas, etc).
At my bros job the cost of lumber went up a few years ago based solely on fuel costs. Every company increased their prices.
>>75947487
Whenever I go to CVS, even young people barely know what the fuck they're doing.
They either double scan, or don't put the item in the bag that's on the scale, or don't follow the instructions about putting the coupon through the slot, etc.
Now imagine some fat chick ordering her Filet o Fish with extra lettuce, not tartar sauce, a diet coke with no ice, extra ketchup, and fries.
>>75925833
When you raise minimum wage your just moving the goal posts without accomplishing anything. Those minimum wage workers are consumers just like everyone else. So when you raise the wages you raise the price of everything. So when you do things to cause inflation like raising minimum wage that $15 will eventually be worth $7.50 and then you're right back where you started.
>>75947389
I don't really know a lot about your scenario you just described. Is it even a minimum wage job? Assuming it is, then I still don't see problem. They tried fucking overworking the employees and got shafted for it. Voluntary exchange.
>>75947110
That individual will die without a caretaker, why isn't anyone advocating for him?
>>75947824
The data entry was minimum wage. And they tried to get rid of it. But eventually it blew up in their faces.
Whenever you hear someone say "herr derr businesses just won't pay someone to do X" it's usually bullshit because they were paying someone to do X for a reason. And if they want to continue, they will still need to pay someone to do X (even if they're paying them more due to increased gov't minimum wage laws).
>>75947576
>So you think it's OKAY for an employer to go to the bottom of the intellectual barrel and pay them next to nothing? It's a "voluntary exchange", in that one party barely has any concept of what's going on.
Reread my post. If we're talking about normal people without a mental disorder then I do not see the problem. This allows them to get training and work their way up to higher wages.
>Neither do illegal immigrants. But you have no problem throwing out the minimum wage for them.
When did I say anything about illegals friendo
>>75925833
I too pay my employees 20$ an hour.
And i add those additional costs onto the product.
And since everybody has more money they can afford to pay more. It's genius.
Maybe i could raise the price even more...
>>75947985
And what will happen is that they will not employ the same amount of people or will increase the costs of their goods and services.
>>75947950
That's a different issue. I completely support using gov't funds to protect the mentally disabled who can't think for themselves.
But my point still stands. Employers exploiting illegals for pennies on the dollar is no different that employers exploiting the intellectually lower people for pennies on the dollar.
>>75925833
>if they can't afford to pay them 15/hr, then they don't deserve to be in business
yah they do. prove me wrong.
>>75925833
SAGE
Small business exemption
/thread
Sage
>>75947791
We all bitch and moan whoever has to work at the self check out line. We all know it requires more work. All it is is baby sitting retarded morons back and forth because they can't follow the fucking instructions literally shouting in there face and put in a pass code every 3min because some fucktard somehow froze the machine. It is hell. I'd take normal cashiering any day then that bullshit.
>>75947986
You reread mine.
To you it's ok for employers to exploit illegals for pennies on the dollar. To you it's also ok for employers to exploit people of lower intellect for pennies on the dollar.
>>75948007
Damn it the govt made new rules that i can't add the cost to my product. I have to produce cheaper.
I'll move my company overseas. Or i could start by firing every non essential employee. What can i outsource? Who can i replace with robots?
So many choices...
>>75948007
You've just demonstrated why raising the minimum wage is pointless.
>>75948067
That almost never happens either.
You're just jumping from one doomsday scenario to the next.
If a business needs 2 people in the office. And the minimum wage is increased, so the boss decides to fire one of them, he will see in a few weeks that he needs 2 people in the office.
>>75945455
Except every person right now that I know who makes $15+ an hour has already said if mcDs and BK are giving $15 an hour, they will quit and go for the easier job.
IT people, EMTs, NURSES, Garbagemen, sewer workers. Why wade in shit and disease for $18 an hour when you can flip burgers for just under that?
>>75948069
>Exploiting
How are functioning adults "exploited" by their own voluntary labor? Why would someone go to all that effort to be "exploited"?
>>75948337
>To you it's ok for employers to exploit illegals for pennies on the dollar.
But I think hiring illegal immigrants should be a crime (and it is).
>To you it's also ok for employers to exploit people of lower intellect for pennies on the dollar.
It's not exploiting them. Minimum wages do more harm than good, removing the minimum wage would be helping these people become independent.
>Doomsday scenario
No it's economics. Businesses will increase their prices as a result of minimum wages.
>>75948441
This.
>>75948441
They will just get paid more and the niggers at Mcdonalds will be right back where they started, at the bottom of the food chain.
>>75948441
Garbagemen and sewer workers get INSANE benefits + retirement funds + union shit. They ain't going to McDonalds.
IT people sit at a desk and won't want to deal with white/black trash McD customoers or working in a 85 degree kitchen.
EMTs and Nurses also get great medical benefits + lots of room for promotion/moving to other fields of interest.
You're creating these insane doomsday scenarios that have no basis in reality.
>>75948337
I'm not that much into economics, but I see you have a firm standpoint. Could you explain me the consequences of low/high minimum wage short term and long term?
>>75948550
A desperate foreigner would probably do anything for $ (no matter how little). That's exploiting desperation.
>>75948441
Yeah I'm quite sure everyone is just going to quit there jobs for less an hour to go flip burgers which requires a shit ton of hard labor then most think. How fabulous.It's not just flipping burgers dumbass its like hell in a small cage full of insufferable fuckwits on both sides of the counter.
>>75948441
hell, im just a manager burger flipper and ill quit to be a regular burger flipper if they raise the min wage equal to or above my current wage.
>>75948718
As in why do you think its good?
>>75948587
>But I think hiring illegal immigrants should be a crime (and it is).
Happens all the time.
>It's not exploiting them. Minimum wages do more harm than good, removing the minimum wage would be helping these people become independent.
Only on /pol/
>No it's economics. Businesses will increase their prices as a result of minimum wages.
Ok. That's natural and the first smart thing you've said. Up until now it was "they'll get rid of that job" and "they'll hire less people". But when I shot that nonsense down you resorted to the "businesses will have to raise prices". That's 100% true, and that's how business works. I'd rather pay an extra quarter for my fries.
>>75948730
No they will just get paid more and then we're right back where we started.
My $7.50 on the matter.
The general notion of the argument is that the market sort itself out, and frequently cited example is the case from the early days of the Industrial Revolution. Back then, the wages remained low but the prices fell so low that the standard of living automatically rose (In other words, people could buy more things for the same wages)
Naturally, the idea is that competition will always reduce the prices of commodities, so the standard of living will continuously rise even with the same wages. This process will eventually normalize at a point where the only capital companies will generate is some profit for the owners, production costs, and spare capital for expansion/rainy days. Except…
This isn’t what happened. Competition normalized at a level that is too high for minimum wages. For example, it would be splendid if McDonalds and Burger King are competing by reducing the prices- except that they don’t. And this goes for all companies, in all manner of businesses- and for some businesses profits remain staggeringly high. So high in fact, it boggles the mind to argue that an increase in wages would be detrimental as it is presented to be. It’s almost as if cartelization is an actual problem.
Considering that companies do have sufficient profits to cover living (and I do mean living, and not just surviving) wages, it goes to show that a minimum wage is only logical. Minimum wage legislation can easily be adapted, so that the minimum wages in a given business are gauged based on the size and profit of the business. Simple af.
>>75948728
They're clearly making more here than they were at home so it's a net benefit for them and if the labor prices were higher they would likely be priced out of the market in favor of automation and workers that can speak English.
>>75948847
>Ok. That's natural and the first smart thing you've said. Up until now it was "they'll get rid of that job" and "they'll hire less people". But when I shot that nonsense down you resorted to the "businesses will have to raise prices". That's 100% true, and that's how business works. I'd rather pay an extra quarter for my fries.
I've been saying that since my first fucking post in this thread and I even referenced them to you you illiterate mongrel >>75938243
>>75948835
pros
>employees make more money
>employees have more money to spend which helps economy
>less gov't welfare/food stamps if more people are above the poverty line
cons
>businesses make less money OR have to charge more for their goods and services.
>>75948957
That's just another of your insane doomsday scenarios in which raising prices = can't compete = only large corporations remain.
You do realize that mom and pop businesses still operate despite numerous minimum wage increases throughout the years/decades.
Normally what REALLY kills businesses is taxes. Which as nothing to do with minimum wage.
