I am strongly considering conversion to Islam, /pol/. Talk me out of it.
Errrrrmmm k?
>>75661162
Meh, whats the point, you'll just fuck a goat and blow yourself up shortly afterwards.
>>75661162
You should do it and then help commit a major terrorist attack somewhere in the West so we can get this race war up and running while i am still young.
>>75661928
Do you really think Islam is about terrorism?
>>75661162
First explain your rationale? I am muslim myself, but I wouldnt condone you converting if you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
>>75662003
To us in the West, yes.
To someone like you who views Islam in an obviously favourable light, it would look like they are men and women who are fighting for Islam just like Mohammed called for.
>>75661162
Why are you so lacking in identity and confidence you would consign yourself to the sewer tier of religions and cultures? Islam has zero to do with America, it would make more sense for you to say you're assimilating into the Sioux tribe or Scientology than Islam. Also, if you want to see how ugly the religion is, and how those words in the koran translate to the real world, just look at the shitholes they are making in Europe, such as in Rotherham and London. I don't have to talk you out of converting, you can talk yourself out of it by opening your eyes and taking a look at the real Islamic world.
>>75661162
Really makes you think
>>75662106
I became an atheist 7 or 8 years ago, based on logical contradictions in the doctrine of the Trinity.
I recently ran across a model argument that proves the existence of something outside our own universe that served as the first cause. I always said if I came across proof that God exists, or that made it more likely that he exists than that he doesn't, I would change my opinion.
Islam is the only religion with a holy book that has not been altered over time and claims the oneness of God.
I have always found Islam fascinating, especially after reading The NS Guide to Islam by David Myatt. With that being said, I am disappointed that so many Muslims are Anti-Jihad and are against War, they could certainly become a lethal threat to The Magian if they would stop preaching that they are a "religion of peace" and instead start fighting. I have believed for quite a while that Islam is actually a Cult dedicated to Atazhot (Allah) and I am pleased that there are still sects that practice Self Mutilation and consumption of glass which are likely both practices which originated from the Cult of Atazhot, before it morphed into Islam.
Al-Buraq the flying donkey says do it.!
>>75662003
Islam is about conquest, and terrorism is one of the means of doing it, so yes, terrorism is integral to Islam like the Communion is to Catholicism.
>>75662194
>To someone like you who views Islam in an obviously favourable light, it would look like they are men and women who are fighting for Islam just like Mohammed called for.
I am white, was born and raised in America, and grew up Protestant Christian. Terrorists look to me like what they are: criminals and murderers.
>>75662461
> logical contradictions in the doctrine of the Trinity.
More like you being retarded. The same retardation that makes people destroy you theologically. the same retardation that makes you talk about converting to Islam.
Just admit that you are stupid and that you have no idea of what you are talking about
>>75662461
too much anon too much hahah
>>75662461
>Islam is the only religion with a holy book that has not been altered
It takes a muzzy to believes this grats the only thing you gotta do now is say 5 lines in some mosque and get you're free babyfactory
Do it and bomb somewhere in the US so they can see what Islam really is
>>75662461
>Islam is the only religion with a holy book that has not been altered over time and claims the oneness of God.
So as an intellectually superior post-Atheist teenager, in you're opinion, how sound is the Islamic doctrine of farting?
In it, Allah himself comments on the nature of impurities of man and when it is and isn't appropriate to pass gas.
>>75662614
Give me logical support for the doctrine of Trinity then.
>>75662597
>I am white.
Yeah you can't fool me dune coon.
You might be white according to the US census but you aren't actually white.
>White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html
>>75662762
>So as an intellectually superior post-Atheist teenager...
I'm 40.
>>75662789
It looks like you are not quite used to thinking about the things you say or read.
By the way, your "logic" is the logic of someone who talks positively about Islam. When you learn what logic is, then you will be able to say what is or isn't logical
>>75662866
Dude, my family is Norse and Irish primarily, with some various other European and some Native American admixture.
>>75662955
So, you have nothing of value to say about the contradiction in the doctrine of Trinity then?
>>75662955
>op
>>75662993
>Norse
>>75662461
In all honesty, you will never ever find conclusive proof of the existence of God. If there was, what test would there be for you?
My advice to you, is not to look for evidence or hyperbole. Also, ignore the idiots on this website, they see what they want to see. My advice is to look properly into the ethical codes the culture, and the morality of Islam.
Do not read what people think about it, or their impressions of it. Go to the Quran and read yourself. Digest the message. If you like what you are reading, only then proceed.
>>75663058
Yes, the "contradictions" that can only be seen by the sick and twisted minds of people who talk positively about islam. The "contradictions" of someone weho has the theological knowledge of a child
>>75661928
kek
>>75662866
You reliaze that being white is what ever people feel like right? There's no emperical science behind it.
>>75663363
White is being European.
>>75663191
The contradictions are simple to see, man.
G = God, the divine being
F = the Father
S = the Son
Sp = the Holy Spirit
Now, G = F = S = Sp, we are told in the doctrine of the Trinity. Fine, so far.
Next, F != S != Sp, since they are three different entities, aspects of the Godhead.
So, since they are all said to be God, we have the following contradiction.
G != G
Logically, from a contradiction, anything follows. Read up on classical logic if you don't understand.
>>75661162
Enjoy your 72 raisins
;^)
>>75661162
>I am strongly considering conversion to Islam, /pol/
Why? I have nothing against Islam and muslims, some of my best m8's are muslims.
But whats Your resaon?
>>75663494
In actuality, you find the idea of Trinity first in Jewish Kabbalah and Babylonian mythology, with a possible parallel in Greek Hecate. Also, the chief gods of Greece were Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades, who were three equal but different entities. The roots of Trinity therefore lie in pagan religion and Jewish mysticism, not in the teachings of Jesus.
Also, google Comma Johanneum. It will be enlightening.
>>75661162
Here you go
>>75661162
Awwww don't say things like that burger, you'll spoil Xmas for your little brother.
>>75663560
Long story short, it is more likely that God exists than that he doesn't exist, and we know that both the Jewish Tanukh and Christian Bible have changed over time, sometimes dramatically.
For instance, the original Torah was lost, and had to be reconstructed by Ezra from people that remembered bits of it.
Also, the council of Nicaea has been a point of contention for a long time, as have been the teachings of Paul, who never once met Jesus in person.
>>75661162
Your a paedophile who wants to fuck 9 yr old kids you sick bastard. << Convert to Islam pfff daft cunt.
>>75663891
yet you want to convert to a barbaric religion because it's logical?
>>75663891
Youre going about this the wrong way round. You cant find proof, it is a pointless endeavor.
see >>75663111
>>75661162
Why worship a pagan moon god who's prophet molested and married a 9 year old?
>>75663191
face reality, your religion is polytheist.
monotheism the creed of abraham is the real religion.
but who am I talking to, a nughead who believes 3=1 and 1=3, do you even ?
>>75663891
Ameribro I agree there is no doubt in my mind God exists. So worship him as the Holy Books describe. But not through Jesus or Muhammed that's where the Christians and Muslims fuck up worshiping God Bi-Proxy whilst god orders worship me and no other. God's command yet you see them all worshiping god through a lens.
>>75663950
if he was he would've become a priest, everyone knows how much priests love little boipussi
>>75664051
>>75664090
Let me clear some things up here.
>Allah is just Arabic for God. It's literally like God with a capital G.
>Islam venerates all of the prophets of Judaism and Christianity.
>There is a LOT of scholarly debate about the age of Aisha at marriage. Depending on your reading of hadith and on the various sources that place Aisha's birth after the Call (when the Prophet got his order from God), she may have been as old as 19 at consummation. Most likely is she was 14ish. This is based on the dates of the Call, her birth, her sister's birth, and other instances found in the hadith.
>>75664357
but no sane sunni muslim ever worshipped god through mohammad, thats called shirk.
>>75664357
You do not worship the Prophet in Islam. In fact, that is the gravest sin in Islam, worshiping any except God himself.
>>75661162
What cancer is this? Is op falling for the fallacies of the camel seller?
>"Let us be pure. No alchool, no tobacco, no pork, no degeneracy....oh but you can fuck little boys, enslave woman for sexual purposes and sell drugs to finance the war"
>>75664485
he's still a fucking pedophile that married an underage girl and raped her.
he's still the most violent prophet of the world religions
Islam caused nothing but destruction in north africa, anatolia and the balkans.
Islam isnt about peace like Christianity, it's about submission and punishment. and your dumbass thought it's a good idea to convert
>>75664580
You can't discredit him. You have to put him on a higher plateau then all humans. He is seen as some kind of Idol to Muslims and as you know Allah outlawed Idolization. He is worshipped like a God.
>>75663796
thank you for properly disposing the word of god with no disrespect.
burning the qur'an is actually ok.
>>75664696
>"Let us be pure. No alchool, no tobacco, no pork, no degeneracy....oh but you can fuck little boys, enslave woman for sexual purposes and sell drugs to finance the war"
You cannot fuck little boys. Pederasty is haram, as is homosexuality. You're talking about Pashtun culture, from when Bacha Bazi come.
Slavery is outlawed by Sharia law. The entire point of slavery laws in islam was to gradually eliminate slavery. You can say a lot of things about Muslims, but one thing you cannot say is that they are faithless people. Sharia judges would not outlaw slavery if they thought God was okay with it.
Also, drugs of any sort are haram. You cannot sell drugs for any purpose.
>>75664838
>You have to put him on a higher plateau then all humans. He is seen as some kind of Idol to Muslims and as you know Allah outlawed Idolization. He is worshipped like a God.
Literally none of that is true except the outlawing of idolatry. The Prophet is no higher than any other prophet of God, such as Jesus and Nebedkanezer.
>>75663058
here no need to be muslim anymore if you think the bible is retarded look at the quran
>>75661162
You're either stupid or emotionally unstable. Or just desperate to be a special snowflake.
>>75662461
>Islam is the only religion with a holy book that has not been altered over time and claims the oneness of God.
Apparently you rationalize yourself into it by focusing on lapping up all the Muhammadan propaganda you can find. How about actually reading the book, preferably in the chronological order rather than the order in which it is by default. Because chronologically it is painfully obvious it's just the teaching of a malignant nut who was pissed off Jews and Christians didn't embrace him as a prophet. So he changed tack. The book is obvious bullshit to anyone who is literate in Hebrew and Christian scripture because the Qur'an appropriates a lot of teachings -- and gets them wrong time and again. Even if you lack religious literacy, you can just read the book and use your intellect to figure out what follows from its teachings. The teaching is diabolical. Islam subverts virtue. It makes ordinarily good people supporters of the vilest monstrosity. With regard to subversion, just look at the concept of Islamic paraidse which appeals to man's lowest impulses by essentially promising the fulfillment of carnal desires.
>>75664508
Islam is full of internal contradictions. Islam teaches the inviolable unity of God and absolutely prohibits intercessors, etc. Yet, Muhammad is revered to the point his followers MURDER if someone says something about him they don't like. And a lot of those who don't actually commit the murder will rationalize it as a reasonable act. See Pakistan. Also, the treatment of the Qur'an is arguably idolatrous, especially in case with those who believe it is God's eternal word because the inevitable corollary is that the book is God. The co-eternalness of the Qur'an is normative Sunni Islam.
>>75665123
So, you're using a parable to make a tu quoque argument?
>>75664485
>>75665083
LAD, do not engage with these people. I have tried so many times to clear things up with them, you are pissing in the wind and will only get more frustrated. They will always believe what they want to believe. Dont say i didnt warn you.
Spend your energies bettering yourself, or contributing to other threads.
remember
'Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil'
>>75663494
I don't know where you get this idea that you can apply mathematics to God and theology. That alone makes what you say invalid. Byt any way. The Father, Son and Holy Apirits aren't three aspects. They are three persons, and they are all fully god. As you can see, your little symbols areuseless here.
your ideas of the Trinity are that of a little child with a limited mind.
>>75664223
please, little retard, don't talk about things well above you
>>75664485
>There is a LOT of scholarly debate about the age of Aisha at marriage
There isn't. Do you want me to ive you a thousand quotes by the universally accepted Hadith? Or from anny early Muhammad biography? Or from literally ANY muslim source?
Why do you ignore reality? Why do you make numbers up? It looks like atheists and muslims share a huge lot
>>75665180
>Apparently you rationalize yourself into it by focusing on lapping up all the Muhammadan propaganda you can find. How about actually reading the book, preferably in the chronological order rather than the order in which it is by default. Because chronologically it is painfully obvious it's just the teaching of a malignant nut who was pissed off Jews and Christians didn't embrace him as a prophet.
It is chronological by default.
>So he changed tack. The book is obvious bullshit to anyone who is literate in Hebrew and Christian scripture because the Qur'an appropriates a lot of teachings -- and gets them wrong time and again.
You mean like how it doesn't say that Noah was a drunkard or that David was a rapist and murderer?
>Even if you lack religious literacy, you can just read the book and use your intellect to figure out what follows from its teachings. The teaching is diabolical. Islam subverts virtue.
How?
>It makes ordinarily good people supporters of the vilest monstrosity.
How?
>With regard to subversion, just look at the concept of Islamic paraidse which appeals to man's lowest impulses by essentially promising the fulfillment of carnal desires.
You're picturing paradise as some kind of depraved orgy because you haven't actually read anything except the infographics that float around here, apparently.
>Islam is full of internal contradictions.
Name one.
>Islam teaches the inviolable unity of God and absolutely prohibits intercessors, etc. Yet, Muhammad is revered to the point his followers MURDER if someone says something about him they don't like. And a lot of those who don't actually commit the murder will rationalize it as a reasonable act. See Pakistan.
Some people do some bad things claiming to follow this religion. That means it must be bullshit? Please.
Continued
>>75665284
Then you can aswell go back to the bible fairy tale ,since everything is a parable ?
>>75665180
the qur'an is the word of god and should be respected as the holy word of god. you fail to mention the internal contradictions.
the qur'an, which is the word of god, states that what the prophet advised you you should take, and what he advised you not, you should reject. if you insult muhammad or any prophet, no doubt you deserve death. see, slandering a prophet is a major sin and sinners are punished twice if if they don't repent.
what are the contradictions that you found ?
Gonna dump a few.
Please don't.
>>75665729
>You're picturing paradise as some kind of depraved orgy because you haven't actually read anything except the infographics that float around here, apparently.
More like he has read about Muhammad's life, the pedophile warlord with such lust that created personal exceptions for the number of wives he could have and married his son's wives, had sex with a nine years old girl. slaughtered everyone in sight, murdered those who mocked him in poems, raided caravans, believed Mary was part of the Trinity etc.
I recommend you go watch some debates with David Wood
>>75665431
you and your trinity are beneath me, but im humble and always willing to talk with degenerates, who knows maybe you'll see reason.
>>75665978
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91AM7665cbo
>>75665875
Please, let us know what islam says about the people of the book.
>>75665729
>Also, the treatment of the Qur'an is arguably idolatrous, especially in case with those who believe it is God's eternal word because the inevitable corollary is that the book is God. The co-eternalness of the Qur'an is normative Sunni Islam.
No. The Quran is God's word. It is not worshiped in any sense of the word. it is not a partner to God, and therefore not idolatrous or shirk.
>I don't know where you get this idea that you can apply mathematics to God and theology. That alone makes what you say invalid. Byt any way. The Father, Son and Holy Apirits aren't three aspects. They are three persons, and they are all fully god. As you can see, your little symbols areuseless here.
My little symbols are classical logic. math is just classical logic applied to numbers. You started off arguing that there were no contradictions in the Trinity doctrine. Now you are decrying all of classical logic as invalid. BTFO.
>>75665625
>Do you want me to ive you a thousand quotes by the universally accepted Hadith? Or from anny early Muhammad biography? Or from literally ANY muslim source?
Sure, and I'll give you just as many that say otherwise. Remember, the Hadith are the words of men. They are very helpful, but not inerrant.
>Why do you ignore reality? Why do you make numbers up? It looks like atheists and muslims share a huge lot
I am just deferring to the Muslim scholars that write on the topic, including early biographers of Muhammad that you claim universally say 6 and 9, when they do not. Neither do the hadith.
>>75666034
Don't worry, my retarded friend. I will laugh at muslims like anyone with minimum knowledge has done for centuries since it was born
http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx
Blow yourself up in times sqaure while masterbating. DO IT OR ALLAH WILL BE ASHAMED OF YOU
>>75665978
David Wood is a known liar, and many of the people he speaks with pretending to be ex Muslims are not. You putting your faith in a man that is just wanting to get right from bilking credulous Christians tells the entire tale about you.
>>75663494
Read Thomas Aquinas and, if you have the patience, the treaty On Trinity by Saint Augustine. The Holy Trinity is one of the main mysteries of the Catholic Church and if you approach it by logic alone you're missing out the whole. In my opinion Aquinas's take is the most comprehensible one for most of us regular people.
God is the Father, the Son and the Spirit. Yet He is still One.
>>75666308
You have convinced me. Now I'm a muslim. Tomorrow I will go and kill the people of the book and subdue them, crucify them, behead them and cut their fingertips. while at the other time listening to them as guide.
>>75661162
you get to rape women and girls and get away with it, plus you'll get to live when the European caliphate comes about. It's probably a good decision tbqh anon
>>75666451
>The Holy Trinity is one of the main mysteries of the Catholic Church and if you approach it by logic alone you're missing out the whole.
You literally just said "you can't think too hard about this or it won't make any sense."
>>75666484
Well I assume when you were a Christian, you practiced genocide against pagans and stole all of their stuff, since that's what the Old Testament said to do. And you know, Jesus didn't do away with it, like people want to believe. Read the sermon on the mount, which is often given as proof of his divinity for some reason.
>>75666086
it says O people of the book let us come to an agreement that we exclusively worship god and not make partners with him and not take each other as commanders over god's commands.
however, the qur'an says something about people of the trinity which is those who said god is one of three surely have blasphemed and a great punishment awaits them.
>>75666102
>Sure, and I'll give you just as many that say otherwise. Remember, the Hadith are the words of men. They are very helpful, but not inerrant.
The Hadith are sacred muslim tradition. All 6 most prominent and completely accepted Hadith, all early biographies, all early muslim sources show I'm right. Why do you try to deny the undeniable?
Go read the age mentioned in:
SAHIH AL-BUKHARI
SAHIH MUSLIM
SUNAN ABU DAWUD
SUNAN NASA‘I
SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH
IBN HISHAM
Those are the most reliable, earliest sources. Your 20th century sources from ashamed muslims mumbling their retarded theories are nothing.
Next time you pretend you defend islam, you should get a little more information
>>75667031
http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
Have fun checking sources, which incidentally are the same list you just gave.
>>75666789
>Well I assume when you were a Christian, you practiced genocide against pagans and stole all of their stuff, since that's what the Old Testament said to do. And you know, Jesus didn't do away with it, like people want to believe. Read the sermon on the mount, which is often given as proof of his divinity for some reason.
Me? When? Two years ago? When does the OT say that? Also, why do you ignore that the mosaic law no longer applies. Jesus didn't do away with it? then why is it said repeatedly in Paul epistles how the law no longer applies?
>>75662461
You do know the bible opposes the Trinity ? It's a catholic invention, three hundred years after Christ ascended.
The word Trinity isn't even found in the bible.
>>75666223
oh you're gonna laugh at us ? oh no, nooooo im crying, please don't laugh at us.
we have been told that disbelievers will laugh at us, ridicule us and mock our religion, but it's all good, there's a just god who'll prove you wrong either in this life or after it.
>>75666102
muslim here, why even bother with /pol/?
>>75667201
>Have fun checking sources, which incidentally are the same list you just gave.
Next time you pretend you arre muslim, at least try to check the documents you quickly look up
>>75666789
You are not just you: you are Id, Ego and Superego. You are the relationship of all these three parts of yourself, yet none of these parts is the same as another. Same thing with God. And here I'm butchering Aquinas's ideas and probably angering a few theologians by oversimplifying the issue.
Again, if you are really, REALLY bored, check St. Augustine's On the Trinity. It's probably the most definitive take on this Trinity issue yet good luck understanding every single thing it says.
>>75667437
m8 he already came up with his opinion after thinking about the variables of the divine and eternity for 10 minutes on the toilet
>>75667205
It's interesting that you cite Paul. Paul is the most hotly debated topic in the canon right now. He was quite likely the first heretic, accepted by the council of Nicaea specifically because the early church wanted to divorce itself from Judaism. Go read up on the topic.
Paul never met Jesus in person, unless you count the account in John, which is widely thought by Christian scholars to have been added later, of his seeing Christ after the resurrection.
The Old Testament repeatedly authorizes the wholesale slaughter of idolaters by the Jews, and the taking of their virgin girls as sex slaves. For instance, at the foot of Sinai, when Moses found Jews worshipping the golden calf, he ordered exactly that. It was odered at least 3 more times in subsequent books towards other people.
I ignore the doing away with the old law because Paul specifically contradicted Jesus on that. Jesus say that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away. Paul clearly was wrong, at least here.
>>75667332
It's fun to bearbait them.
>>75667363
I read the whole thing. It's you that didn't bother.
>>75667437
This is probably the most insightful post in this whole thread. Thanks.
>>75667693
Yeah, I clearly haven't been thinking about all of this for the better part of a decade.
>>75661162
Yes, Hitler said it was the Master Religion.
>>75667252
i never get why people think there is a trinity
King James Bible
>In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
New Living Translation
>Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
satan refered as the god of this world, jesus is the god of this world i think thats where the trinity gets it wrong
>>75668039
yeah go an think more, while you need to study philosophers and thinkers both muslim and Christian. Im a muslim and hate converts that do it because they want muh culture, muh manliness muh women obedient
>>75662461
Muhammad wrote the Quran to meet his political goals
>>75668157
It's because of the Comma Johanneum. Look it up.
>>75668242
Citation needed.
>>75667870
>He was quite likely the first heretic, accepted by the council of Nicaea specifically because the early church wanted to divorce itself from Judaism. Go read up on the topic.
Anon. Paul defines what christian doctrine is. You are trying to call heretic one of the first apostles.
Have I said Paul met Jesus in person?
I laugh at your fantasies that are "widely thought by Christian scholars". It's quite easy to know when someone is parroting things he reads on the internet. and that is your case. you are a retarded fedora, with a child's understanding of religion, that just repeats what he wants to ehar. For laughs you pretend to be muslim, but sadly for you there are people who do know something about religion. Since you have been outed and you can't defend islam, you try to attack Christianity by repeating the absurdities you read in atheism forums and blogs.
Please, tell me where it is said in the Old Testament, as moral law, that we must murder nonbelievers. Please, also tell me why, themn none of the early christians did so in any way.
Please, tell us how the verse about what Jesus says finishes. Or did your atheist forums ignore that.
Also, you may want to know, that what Paul said what also said in the councils and by the other apostles and elders. Peter himself affirmed what Paul said.
Good luck next time, though.
>>75661162
You just want to fuck little boys, don't you?
>>75661162
>I am strongly considering conversion to Islam, /pol/. Talk me out of it.
No. I want more targets.
>>75668658
>implying arranged marriages are bad
have fun with your roasties
>>75668917
I don't really care what a muslim thinks. I don't even know why people try to convert you anymore.
>>75668437
>Anon. Paul defines what christian doctrine is.
Actually no. That was the council of Nicaea.
>You are trying to call heretic one of the first apostles.
I am just showing you a clear example of where he contradicted Jesus.
>For laughs you pretend to be muslim...
Nope. I am thinking of converting though.
>Since you have been outed and you can't defend islam...
Actually I did quite an able job correcting the misinformation in this thread.
>you try to attack Christianity by repeating the absurdities you read in atheism forums and blogs.
No, not at all. If you bothered to read Christian blogs on this very topic, you would see that this is a widely discussed thing, with hundreds of books that have been published on the subject. Without Paul, who clearly contradicted Christ on the subject of the Mosaic Law, we would still be going to synagogue and observing in the Jewish fashion. The council of Nicaea did what they did because they wanted to break from that.
>Please, tell me where it is said in the Old Testament, as moral law, that we must murder nonbelievers. Please, also tell me why, themn none of the early christians did so in any way.
I never said you were commanded to murder nonbelievers. Jews were commanded to commit genocide against pagans though, time after time. Since you say commands to a specific group of Muslims apply to us today, then I assume you feel the same about your own bible.
>Please, tell us how the verse about what Jesus says finishes.
It's in the sermon on the mount. Matthew chapter 5 I think. It is the part with the beatitudes, the "Blessed are..." statements.
>Also, you may want to know, that what Paul said what also said in the councils and by the other apostles and elders. Peter himself affirmed what Paul said.
We know for a fact that Peter did not write the books of Peter. It's why Martin Luther wanted them excluded, unless I remember incorrectly. It's in Luther's Antilegomena.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-OmlOb_dFg
>>75669005
Christian society should have arranged marriages, I want you guys to do better and get on track and not live in a degenerate world when your women marry at 35 and have kids at 36
>>75669187
>Christian society should have arranged marriages, I want you guys to do better and get on track and not live in a degenerate world when your women marry at 35 and have kids at 36
I want to help you get to paradise, which I know is the ultimate goal for your guys, which is guaranteed to happen if you're martyred.
See, I think we just wanna help one another.
>>75669384
yeah yeah yeah, want me dead idc. Im just saying arranged marriages between families and their children looking at them and their prospects are much better than settling down with a roastie at age 33 after she was riding the cock train for 12 years
>>75669094
>Actually no. That was the council of Nicaea.
Which is based, among other thigns, on the teachings given by Paul
>I am just showing you a clear example of where he contradicted Jesus.
You are rather showing an example of how parroting atheist forums wont get you too far
>Nope. I am thinking of converting though.
Sure you do
>Actually I did quite an able job correcting the misinformation in this thread.
You have just desperately tried to look up websites to defend islam, lying about how those sites use the "same sources", while there is absolutely no quote of any of them.
>If you bothered to read Christian blogs on this very topic
I'm pretty sure you are used to read atheist blogs. Doesn't mean everyone is as retarded as you. you keep talking about how Paul contradicts Jesus. you are completely insane. I guess you have to be, anyway, if you are an atheist. Christians are free to keep the former jewish traditions of the law, but they are not required to, nobody has to follow the mosaic law. what you say is completely fabricated nonsense. According to you, did Paul contradict Jesus because he threw the Law away, or because he kept the traditions of the law? Make up your mind, little atheist.
>Jews were commanded to commit genocide against pagans though, time after time
Again, tell me where it is stated as moral law that we must kill pagans. It's a very easy question that for some reason you don't answer.
>It's in the sermon on the mount. Matthew chapter 5 I think. It is the part with the beatitudes, the "Blessed are..." statements.
I know. I just want you to ridicule yourself by finishing the verse you started to quote.
>We know for a fact that Peter did not write the books of Peter
Again, I laugh at what you try to pass as "knowing for a fact".
>Martin Luther
My sides
>>75669384
I'd just like to point out that the Hadith in that book of Hadith were not all written down first hand, or even second hand.
I would also like to point out that Hadith which bears directly on the teachings of the Prophet were scrutinized in a far more rigorous manner than Hadith with only had a historical significance.
Also note that the age of consent in America was generally 10 until the late 1800, and in Delaware it was 7.
>>75669556
Oh sure it will totally works if you force someone who would otherwise have ridden the cock train for 12 years to marry a guy. She'll totally settle and it's totally gonna be fair to the guy, who has no choice in this shit at all.
It's not like parents are gonna arrange the marriage for reasons other than the well being of the children or something.
I'm tired of you """""people"""". Stay in your failed state.
>>75669755
All those Hadith are considered to be completely reliable and part of sacred tradition.
I would also like to point out that ALL other reliable Hadith, early biographies and tradition say the same
>>75669755
>blablablabla bullshit
Kill yourself. I have a seal on my heart, don't you see?
>>75669723
>You are rather showing an example of how parroting atheist forums wont get you too far
I do not now nor have I ever gone to atheist forums. Disbelieve me if you want, but this is true.
>Sure you do
Well, if you don't believe that I am telling the truth, then there is no point to this discussion continuing.
>You have just desperately tried to look up websites to defend islam, lying about how those sites use the "same sources", while there is absolutely no quote of any of them.
This is untrue. I no looking up of websites other than to give you the one I had bookmarked that uses the sources you yourself cite to cast doubt on the age of Aisha at marriage.
>I'm pretty sure you are used to read atheist blogs. Doesn't mean everyone is as retarded as you. you keep talking about how Paul contradicts Jesus. you are completely insane. I guess you have to be, anyway, if you are an atheist. Christians are free to keep the former jewish traditions of the law, but they are not required to, nobody has to follow the mosaic law. what you say is completely fabricated nonsense. According to you, did Paul contradict Jesus because he threw the Law away, or because he kept the traditions of the law? Make up your mind, little atheist.
I am not an atheist. I was once, because of the contradictions within the doctrine of Trinity. I figured if that was wrong, there was no reason to believe in any God.
>Again, tell me where it is stated as moral law that we must kill pagans. It's a very easy question that for some reason you don't answer.
The point is that you are using a double standard here, saying that commands in the old testament don't apply to anyone, but claiming that commands to a specific group of Muslims still do.
>I know. I just want you to ridicule yourself by finishing the verse you started to quote.
I didn't start to quote any.
>Again, I laugh at what you try to pass as "knowing for a fact".
Continued.
>>75662461
> I recently ran across a model argument that proves the existence of something outside our own universe.
Yeah you are retarded i guess that explains why you think you can simply decide islam is actually correct and convert. Truth does not work like that. You were an atheist but you never understood scientific epistemology.
>>75669755
Coming from a deist who's lived with muslims all his life I can say that you are more well read than the average muslim.
I applaud you for taking the time to think this through but I urge you to actually read through the Quran in its entirety before you make a final decision. That is if you haven't already.
I'd also like to add that while posting here may be entertaining for you and mildly annoying for everyone else that this probably isn't very productive in helping you make this decision.
>>75670179
>>75669723
1 Peter is of a quality of Greek that shows that the writer was a fluent speaker and literate. 2 Peter is broken Greek, and of very poor quality. It's likely that the writer of 2 Peter composed the book decades later than 1 Peter was composed, and without any doubt it was not the same person.
Google pseudepigraphical.
>>75669996
I see you have a seal on your mind.
>>75670186
Actually, I did, and do. However, science has its limits. That's an unfortunate fact, so for anything beyond those limits (generally, what is beyond our universe, if anything) we must rely on logic.
>>75670320
Fair enough. I am genuinely considering converting, but posting here was just to piss /pol/ off. I'll wander off now.
>>75669996
lol butthurt
>>75670179
>but this is true.
Yes, just like it was true that the other site had teh same sources
>Well, if you don't believe that I am telling the truth
When someone proves to be a retarded lier then, no, I'm not going to believe you.
> I no looking up of websites other than to give you the one I had bookmarked that uses the sources you yourself cite to cast doubt on the age of Aisha at marriage.
Why do you blatantly lie? All the sources I have used EXPLICITELY mention Aisha's age. You don't even know what you are talking about.
>I am not an atheist. I was once, because of the contradictions within the doctrine of Trinity. I figured if that was wrong, there was no reason to believe in any God.
Again, retarded liar. Be thankful that I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume nobody is that stupid.
>The point is that you are using a double standard here, saying that commands in the old testament don't apply to anyone, but claiming that commands to a specific group of Muslims still do.
Again, please, find those commands. You can see instances of order that address, explicitely, certain tribes and nations. meanwhile, i the Quran, Hadith, Mahomma's bipgraphy, early witnesses of islam etc, you fin a million time commands that apply to ALL unbelievers. The Mosaic law no longer applies. You ahve tried to deny this by trying to undermine Paul. And you have failed miserably, because you are just a parrot, and just repeat things beyond your understanding.
>>75670371
>I see you have a seal on your mind.
It's because Allah revealed his thing but only to the people he would allow to see. This is per the Koran surah two.
Now of course one could wonder what the point of a revelation is if some people are excluded from it but that's just something because mumble mumble Allah knows best.
>>75670545
you should shill for islam on /pol/ more often
>A mud claims he's an atheist who wants to convert to islam
Yeah no fuck off. You're not baiting anybody.
You can't even say Mohammed without adding PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH every single fucking time.
>>75670631
>traitors calling me butthurt
Man I'm super surprised.
>>75662907
>I'm 40.
NOW [among the best of the deeds which] We have enjoined upon man is goodness towards his parents. [16] In pain did his mother bear him, and in pain did she give him birth; and her bearing him and his utter dependence on her took thirty months. [17] and so, when he attains to full maturity and reaches FORTY years, [18] he [that is righteous] prays: “O my Sustainer! Inspire me so that I may forever be grateful for those blessings of Thine with which Thou hast graced me and my parents, and that I may do what is right [in a manner] that will meet with Thy goodly acceptance; and grant me righteousness in my offspring [as well]. Verily, unto Thee have I turned in repentance: [19] for, verily, I am of those who have surrendered themselves unto Thee!” - 46:15
based
>>75670545
And logic tells you that by definition you cannot know about anything outside our universe therefore any type of thought about is generally mental masturbation. Its like the whole matrix argument. We could be in matrix but by definition is impossible to proof or disproof. And to affirm it is real is fallacious and extremely suspicious since it was simply a human idea that you are trying to project onto the universe and which is impossible to falsify.
>>75670371
Anon, I have read all those crazy theories a million times. and they are just like the theory that Jesus never existed and was a creation by the Romans. They crumble with a little blow, they constantly lead to contradictions and absurd things.
According to your theories, 2 Peter uses 1 Peter as a model, but has huge differences that someone imitating the model would have not commited. And like that, a thousand more ways the retarded theories you just swallow crumble.
You tell yourself "we know for a fact" "without any doubt", but that is just mindless parroting of what you want to hear.
>>75671038
And do not try to bullshit me with bringing up multiverse theory. Those are mathematical models made by extrapolating data from real measurement of our universe and their ar emerely hypothesis no real scientists will tell you they KNOW there is something outside our universe.
>>75670755
that's not necessary, threads on /pol/ that insult islam are in fact promoting islam using reverse psychology.
Oh hey, you guys are still going. Here, have this.
P1: Every contingent thing that exists has a cause.
>Ex nihilo nihil fit.
P2: No contingent thing can cause itself to exist.
>Causes cannot exist before their effects.
P3: Therefore every contingent thing must be caused by something else.
>This follows unassailably from P1 and P2.
P4: The series of contingent causes and effects is itself contingent.
>If it were necessary then every step in the series was necessary and thus predestined.
P5: The series of contingent causes must be caused by something else.
>Three possibilities exist.
>If this something else were contingent, then it must be outside the series. See P2.
>If it were outside the series but still contingent, then it is just a continued regress of the series.
>The cause is necessary.
P6: The thing that causes the series of contingent causes must be a necessary cause.
If any of you understand modal logic, you understand how this proves that SOMETHING outside of our own universe is responsible for our universe.
>>75671563
Now, there is an objection that can be made at proposition 4. Namely, that the series was itself necessary. It would follow from that that everything is predetermined and free will does not exist. I haven't delved into arguments for free will deeply enough, but it certainly appears to exist, which is why I choose to think (for now, at least) that the series is contingent.
>>75669938
during arranged amrriages they don't just throw you to the other person they look at your prospects and everything
>>75671563
>>75671774
I'd just like to point out, this is the very argument that changed my mind about God not existing. If free will exists, and the series of causes is not itself necessary, then God necessarily exist.
>>75671955
Suuuuuuure. Everyone will look out for everyone else's best interest because everyone is innately good or some shit. That's like slavery in Islam. It's not bad because -- and I shit you not this is the actual answer from muslims -- people will be nice to their slaves.
Well shit if everyone is so god damn nice that no law can be abused, why have any law at all? Why have any revelation at all? Why is it that people need somebody else to watch over their interests instead of themselves? Isn't the revelation precisely for those people who need it, ie. who needs guidance? But of course those who need guidance, the wicked, there's a seal on their earth so they're not gonna profit from the revelation anyway.
Oh well. Life must be hard in the Kuffr land of Canada where everyone is an infidel and is lower than vermin. I sure wish I could go in the paradise that is Pakistan. I hear muslims are the best people ever raised on earth. It boggles the mind anyone person would want to get away from such a group. Especially if they arrange your marriage. (Presumably with a cousin.)
>>75671563
Except that you have not demonstrated the premises to be truth. And the definition of the limits of our universe is arbitrary. Also this helps nothing at all to the case of god or supernatural substances.
>>75672521
butthurt indian detected
>>75671972
>.
But allah does not have free will , allah knows whats best for you and that is fighting
>>75671972
2:216
Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.
are you a man of peace? to bad allah knows best and free will went out the window
>>75673287
2:217
They ask you about the sacred month - about fighting therein. Say, "Fighting therein is great [sin], but averting [people] from the way of Allah and disbelief in Him and [preventing access to] al-Masjid al-Haram and the expulsion of its people therefrom are greater [evil] in the sight of Allah . And fitnah is greater than killing." And they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they are able. And whoever of you reverts from his religion [to disbelief] and dies while he is a disbeliever - for those, their deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the companions of the Fire, they will abide therein eternally.
>>75671563
The universe was created in truth. I suggest you read reliable tafsirs of the Quran, it helps me understand verses that seem random at first. Learn the openingsura Al Fatiha and establish prayer, it's not hard to learn. Do it step by step and know what you're saying in English to make your prayer more sincere. I wish you well bro, may Allah guide us.
>>75671087
>Crazy theories
Juan pls, you believe the Almighty Creator who punished His creation with a terrifying flood and brimstones among other punishments for disobeying His commands, would reincarnate among His creation to make some point about positivity..
God is perfect, He doesn't need your love, you need Him and He is the most Mercifull and Compassionate.
