oh fuck....
/pol/ btfo...
>Ginsburg
God, I fucking hate /pol/, I wish I'd never taken the fucking pill...
>The decision of whether or not to bear arms is central to a mans life, well-being, and dignity.
>When the government makes that decision for him, he is being treated as less than a full adult human responsible for her own choices.
>burg
leave shill
>>74944977
>being treated as less than a full adult
Honestly, women have nothing to disprove that they need to be treated like children until they hit their 40s
>>74944977
Let me know when I got to choose to keep my foreskin, you femkike.
>>74944977
>>74945095
Which is why I'm pro-choice and pro-gun.
>Ginsburg
Mere coincidence...
Also,
>type in "Is Ginsburg" on google
>third guess is "a jewish name?"
>>74944977
>Burg
>Liberal
She made the choice to reproduce when she engaged in sexual reproduction.
>If something is important to me, I can break the law and get away with murder
I mean, I adhere to this mindset but usually it's considered rather immoral.
Are people here anti abortions? Even for extreme cases like rape or incest?
>>74944977
>disregarding the fact that she made that decision all by herself by getting pregnant in the first place...
Sometimes it's an accident but there are still ways to prevent getting pregnant unless it's rape
I don't get this reasoning doesn't she See the hypocracy?
>>74944977
Then why isn't infanticide legal anymore?
>>74944977
She's right though. It is a womans choice.
>>74945305
Because infants are not fetuses.
>>74945343
divide and conquer shill
>>74944977
A responsible woman wouldn't have fucked around and got pregnant when she couldn't afford to.
>>74945389
t. regressive right
This again?
>>74945421
what does that even mean fucking stupid memer
The CHOICE is in the fucking bedroom. NOT on the fucking operating table.
How fucking hard is it to only have unprotected, contraceptive-less sex with only those who you want to have children with?
And don't give me that 'oh what if it's an accident' crap. there are millions of ways you can have great sex without insemination
>>74944977
What women even wants kids anymore?
Women are grown up children. There is a reason they were not allowed to vote. Correspondingly, there is a reason society is slowly moving towards collapse. Women should never have been given the vote.
>>74945298
שיתנו את הילדים למדינה, גילוי אריות לא עד כדי כך מזיק עד שלושה דורות אחורה וילד שנולד לנתקפת אונס יגדל בפנימייה או אצל משפחה אומנת, לא צריך להרוג יצור חיי.
Basically saying that instead of killing a living creature - The newborn will be given to the state and either is adopted or grown under the state's care, there's no excuse for killing a baby.
>Ruth Ginsburg and the nose
Totally not jewish.
>>74944977
>women are only libertarians when it concerns their personal problems
Why does /pol/ dislike abortion when it's one of the main reasons black population growth has stagnated?
>>74945298
I'm just against not calling it what it is: Killing a human being because it's inconvenient for you.
I hate the mental gymnastics behind it. Just own up to it.
>>74945559
because some of us have morals
>>74945534
contraceptives are not foolproof
and sex is not always a choice, ask ur mum lad
>>74945534
First time I had sex the condom broke. Luckily my partner was on the pill and clean but me being the anal retentive jew that I am, preferred to put a rubber on my dick because I didn't want to deal with unforeseen consequences. What I mean to say is that accidents can happen, I'd hate to think that some couple would have to become parents because the woman can't take contraceptives and the condom broke by accident.
>>74944977
She/s not wrong.
>>74945534
>And don't give me that 'oh what if it's an accident' crap. there are millions of ways you can have great sex without insemination.
Fucking retarded women should know their own cycles anyways.
>>74944977
Yet she couldn't quite make the choice to keep her legs shut in the first place. Her "life, well being and dignity" risked for cheap unprotected sex.
>>74945038
>tfw the redpill has made you more miserable about the world
Let me go back to being ignorant about the Jews and white genocide.
>>74945571
If killing a fetus is killing a human then you're a fucking mass murderer for all the sperm that you waste.
>>74945550
The problem isn't the genetic damage, it's that the child is born out of a horrible circumstance. Both the parent and the child will suffer knowing that they were born of a terrible crime.
Also
גילוי *עריות
אריות זה מה שחי באפריקה
>>74945638
>>74945640
that's what morning after pills are for
also i NEVER used to cum in the pussy when i used condoms for that very reason, jewfriend. whatever happened to pulling out and busting on a girl's tummy? or the mouth bro.
>>74944977
And she made that decision when she opened her legs.
>>74945617
>morals
>surviving the Day of the Rope
m8...
>>74945775
I barely cum during sex anyway, I certainly didn't cum the first time. Thanks, circumcision!
>>74945483
It means that you're just as aggresive with your conservatism as the regressive left.
Both camps just HAVE to have THEIR way, you can't let someone else go and do something without making a show about it or trying to make it illegal.
Both of you are the reason why all this bathroom nonsense has come to light recently, literally no-one cared about the issue until you both started trying to push your agenda.
And now that it is in the spotlight actual perverts can use this as a reason to hang out in bathrooms.
Live and let live for fucks sake, sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action.
These threads are a great opportunity for frustrated mra's to bitch and moan about women
get it all out lads
>>74945737
>If killing a fetus is killing a human then you're a fucking mass murderer for all the sperm that you waste.
except sperm cells aren't fetuses
jesus christ i thought you people were supposed to be smart
>>74944977
>a woman's opinion
>mattering at all
You could have posted a blank picture and it would have been the same.
>>74945737
אני יודע איך לכתוב את זה, יצא לי בטעות.
עדיף שילד יזכה לחיות ואולי יהיו לו רגשי נחיתות על זה שאנסו את אמא שלו או שסבא שלו זה בעצם אבא שלו אבל הוא יזכה לחיות מאשר שימות.
>>74944977
Assuming that the pregnancy isn't the result of rape, or that the fetus isn't diagnosed with serious genetic conditions: a full adult woman should make the decision of having a baby before getting knocked up by fucking random strangers unprotected. Otherwise she is the very definition of "less than a full adult woman", and should be treated as such.
>>74945808
>>74945775
btw even a tiny amount of sperm can impregnate the woman. I know, it's more along the lines of "freak accident" than a probable thing.
>>74945888
At what point is killing a fetus no longer okay? Are you saying that a one hour old pregnant ovum is now a human? Or how about when it's in its reptile stages and it's barely a millimeter across? Are you telling me that's a human? I obviously don't believe in the fact that sperms are people but I don't think that a 3 month old fetus is a human either.
Unless shes rapes she had a choice to get a cock in her.
>>74945737
>your sperm is the same as a fertilized, growing egg inside a pregnant woman
>but an 8 months 29 days old fetus is totally different from a 9 months old BABY YOU SICK FUCK
>>74945944
הטעות שלך כאן היא שאתה מניח שמה שיש בבטן של האישה זה ילד. אם מדובר בעובר ממש צעיר, פחות משלושה חודשים, לדעתי לפחות, לא מדובר בילד, ולכן עדיף לסגור את הבסטה לפני שזה באמת יהיה ילד.
>>74945957
This.
Being a fucking adult means accepting the consequences of your actions. And, as this fucking feminist might say, "Well-being and dignity," means not being a goddamn slut.
>>74945958
*centimeter
>>74946025
אתה עדיין הורג יצור חיי שבתהליכי התפתחות דרך הפלה, זה שעדיין אין לנולד עיניים או מבנה גוף מוצק זה לא אומר שהוא לא קיים.
>>74945958
I stop at the brain. Soon as it has braincells it starts to gain awareness.
>>74945737
>amoral secular jew detected
Scum
>>74945888
>>74945958
Our zionist friend is engaging in a debate maneuver known as reductio ad absurdum.
>Since it's legal to eat scabs, why can't we eat humans?
>>74945571
Absolutely this. I'm happy that it's legal because it's population control, and I'd be paying for all these niglets otherwise. But the mental gymnastics so women can feel good about killing their unborn children for convenience themselves is retarded.
>>74944977
Exactly what women are. Men are the ones that have to take responsability for their fuck ups.
>>74945617
You morally support single motherhood? It's the number one cause of a child ending up in jail, poor, or dead. If someone doesn't to give birth, it's morally right to let them choose.
>>74945410
>responsible women do not have sexual desires, do not date, and do not have relationships.
Spotted the Jew.
>>74945808
Why did you do this to me? Im not even jewish or muslim.
Just tell me why you had to play this sick joke.
>>74945737
>If killing a fetus is killing a human then you're a fucking mass murderer for all the sperm that you waste.
Sperm is not another human being. Sex cells are not capable of cell division and they are not fucking bacteria. The sperm cell that fused with your mother's egg was not you or a human at all. The first time you existed was when your parent's DNA became a zygote.
>>74945958
>btw even a tiny amount of sperm can impregnate the woman. I know, it's more along the lines of "freak accident" than a probable thing.
i don't buy that shit... i know it's technically possible, but i seriously think the amount of times this happens is so insignificant that it's irrelevant to the debate
every situation is unique though, although i think it should be mostly outlawed there are exceptions and it be looked at on a case-by-case basis, and the fetus should have all the very same human rights that we enjoy
>>74945957
>Assuming that the pregnancy isn't the result of rape
Why do babies conceived by rape count as less than human? Why are they to pay for the sins of their father?
>>74945958
> Are you saying that a one hour old pregnant ovum is now a human?
Yes. The only way you can truly define a human is genetically. That ovum has unique human DNA. It's a unique human entity. It's human, it's alive; ergo, you're killing a human life.
A more pertinent question is whether or not it's a person. But now we're putting qualifiers on personhood - something you'd think a Jew would be deeply suspicious of.
>>74946054
But if you let a woman choose to become a slut, as you say, it's her choice, but don't let her deal with the consequences in a certain way, then that's not really a choice, is it?
>>74946082
אני ממש לא מאמין שלכל מה שיש חיים יש נשמה או קדושת חיים או משהו כזה. עובר ממש צעיר מבחינתי זה לא יותר מאיזו לטאה, זה ממש לא בן אדם.
>>74946101
I value the lives of the living more than the lives of the potentially living.
>>74946126
Not really, I'm asking you where you draw the line between an organism and a human. It's pretty obvious that I was exaggerating when I was talking about the sperm.
>>74945202
Why is this so hard to understand?
>>74945958
Yes, I believe even a fetus in its reptile stage is a human, just as I believe that even babies born without a brain or with other defects are still humans.
The point is that if you don't choose conception, every single point after that you choose will be completely arbitrary. It will be chosen based on how easy it still is to abort.
It's the same as with "well it's okay if she got raped". It makes absolutely no logical sense, it's purely based on emotion. Whatever CAUSED a human life doesn't make it less of a human being, it just INCREASES how inconvenient it is to you.
Just call a spade a spade.
>>74946307
>It's not a choice, is it?
Explain. She chose to accept the consequences at sex. This isn't the pre-Greek ages where people couldn't figure out sex == babby.
>>74945298
I don't even fucking care anymore if liberals and shitskins want to murder their kids and future voters then fine.
>>74946257
What if the fetus has horrible birth defects? What if that fetus is born without a brain?
AIDS Skrillex was a fetus once. Abortion could have prevented that.
>>74945737
what are "Jews that don't know anything?"
I'll take Why is Zionism bad for $1000, Alex.
>>74946412
This is an argument for euthanasia, not abortion.
>>74946307
גם לטאה גודלת לזיקית או לצפרדע, חברינו הנורווגי נתן פה נימוק טוב מאוד דווקא - ברגע שהביצית והזרע מתחברים גם אפילו לאחר שעה אחרי זה עדיין יש יצור חיי, תכונות וסממנים שאפילו שעדיין לא נמצאים בשטח הם יבואו בהמשך וברגע שאתה מפיל עובר אתה עדיין רוצח אותו אפילו אם הוא לא בשלבי גדילה מתקדמים.
"The decision whether to care for your 3 year old child or let them starve to death and pursue your dreams is central to a woman's life, well-being and dignity"
Not an argument.
"The Deicision of whether or not to rape your date is central to a person's life, well-being, and dignity.
When the government makes that decision for you, you are being treated as less than a full adult human responsible for your own choices"
This argument is great. I can argue to legalize anything like this.
>>74946229
I think the golden rule of 3 months is valid. I don't believe in aborting a fetus older than 3 months, but before that, I think it's a fair choice.
>>74946363
You're denying a person a way to deal with an unplanned situation. The choice is either to have sex and give birth, or to not have sex, when in reality there is a third option of having sex and having an abortion in case an unplanned pregnancy occurred or some other bad thing happened.
>>74946412
>He thinks that pro-life means anti-abortion.
Way to fall for liberal memes, retard.
And no, exceptions to the rule does not mean we should throw the fuck rule out.
>>74946455
שאלה חצי קשורה, אתה מאמין בצורך בהמתת חסד? או ב
puling the plug?
>>74946473
You're talking like if something develops awareness you have a right to destroy it. You shouldn't. The phrase, "My body, my rules," is misleading, stupid, and frankly, psychopathic.
I find it funny how children dont have rights until they turn 18, but people want to give an unborn fetus rights.
If unborn fetuses can have rights, children should clearly be free to make their own decisions. Including sexual decisions.
>>74946533
All I'm saying is that I don't believe that a cluster of human cells count as a human, even if they are the entirety of that human.
>>74946307
>But if you let a man choose to drop out of highschool, as you say, it's his choice, but don't let him rob a convenience store afterwards so he can still be balling, then that's not really a choice, is it?
>Only when people can break the law to rectify their mistakes are we taking them seriously as adults
>>74946093
I'm pretty sure humans can be born without a brain; humans can fall into comas, and so on. All these lines are arbitrary. It has all been discussed a thousand times.
The only logical point is conception. Everything after that is gymnastics to reach the outcome that is more practical for society.
>>74946278
Glad someone gets it.
>>74946601
Fuck me, let me try that again.
A small cluster of human cells don't count as a PERSON.
>>74946601
Yeah, that's called dehumanization and jews are largely responsible for it.
Why can't people just not have sex unless they want kids? I don't understand
>The government is not letting me be responsible for my choices
>By making me responsible for my choices
>>74946580
Children do have rights. They just don't have adult privileges.
But keep being retarded.
>>74946601
I've already given my opinion on this before, and it's easily implied in my previous post. If can't help it if you either lack reading comprehension to understand or shill so often you do it out of nature.
Deal with it.
>>74946640
Again, for clarity...
>>74946489
>>74946580
You can't murder or otherwise harm someone at any age. Everyone has those rights. Even illegal immigrants who also do not have the right to vote.
>>74944977
So if the government can't tell women can't murder their children, how can it tell me that I can't murder other people?
>>74946640
So having extramarital sex without the sole purpose of impregnation is a crime?
>>74946349
>what caused human life does not make it less human
Its not human until its out the womb. Up until then its a parasite, that if inconvenient, should be disposed of.
>>74945958
>Are you saying that a one hour old pregnant ovum is now a human
A newly fertilised egg cell is technically a human because it has two sets of 23 chromosomes and is capable of cell division. I thought about this a lot and finally couldn't explain why a fertilised egg wouldn't be a human. All other points in the pregnancy are too arbitrary. Not all three month fetuses are developed the same exact way. I can't decide if it is wrong or not to abort a fertilised egg mainly because it is not sentient life capable of pain and whether or not it has a soul at that point if souls exist.
>>74945298
Neither rape nor incest excuse killing someone
Either it's a person or not. Rape or incest have nothing to do with it. It's literally just Muh feels with no rational thought
>>74946518
אם לבן אדם יש סיכוי לחיות אחרי הסיבה שהוא בכלל מבקש למות? לעולם לא.
אם חולה\עובר יחיה חיים של סבל ולא יזכה ליהנות בחיים? זה הדבר הנכון לעשות.
אתה הבאת דוגמה לצאצאים של נאנסות - הילד יכול לגדול בצורה נורמלית לגמרי ואפשר גם לתת אותו למשפחה נורמלית ושיחיה חיים בריאים לגמרי, כנ"ל גם לתינוקות שנולדים מגילוי עריות עד שלושה דורות, אבל לעומת זאת אם כן מוצאים שיולדו עם פגמים גנטים או נפשיים אז מחוסר ברירה גם אותם צריך להפיל בשביל שלא יסבלו. בכל שאר המקרים אפשר לדאוג לזה שהחיים שלהם יהיו כסדרם.
>>74946191
The mental gymnastics on you
Jesus christ
>>74946772
The death penalty exists. Clearly killing someone can be justified however we feel like it.
>>74946772
What about if following through with the pregnancy has a high chance of killing the mother? Which one is more valuable?
>>74945958
its called a human BEING and all you have to do do to qualify is exist.
>>74944977
I don't think many people on pol are against abortion.
>>74946826
Where?
>>74946849
The death penalty exists for murder
And it requires and had always required intent
It's not even close to equivalent you stupid nigger
>>74944977
Women are less than a full adult human responsible for her own choices
>>74946727
Why are you so fucking dense? I'm fucking triggered by your lack of critical thinking and arguing.
1. Only killing a human being is a crime. Whether you choose to abstain, choose to only do anal, choose to use condoms, choose to have a child and make it free for adoption, choose to have a child and raise it - I don't care, but stop pretending there are no options.
2. We agree that it's fucking inconvenient and messes with your life, but that's not what we're fucking arguing about.
Fuck. Are you a woman or why is it so hard for you to tell apart emotion and reason.
>>74946777
תשמע, הבעייה בהנחות שלך זה שעובר זה בן אדם, משהו שאני לא מסכים איתו, ושזכויותיו של העובר עולות על זכויותה של האם, שזה משהו שאני ממש לא מסכים איתו. אני לא חושב שאין לנו על מה להתווכח פה, אבל, נסכים לא להסכים על כך שעובר זה בן אדם ולשהרוג אותו זה רצח.
אני מסתכל על זה מהנקודה הזאת, יש לי חבר, בן 20, זיין איזה אמריקאית שרמוטה, עם קונדום, והיא עדיין נכנסה להריון. עכשיו, הוא אבא, כנגד רצונו. אין לו עתיד, אין לו קריירה, אין לו כלום. וזה הכל בגלל שהבחורה לא הסכימה להפלה. אני מרחם עליו ממש, החיים שלו בזבל. מבחינתי, הכיוון ההפוך הוא זהה. בחורה
>>74946129
>if I remove the consequences from niggers it will save me money
No.
>>74946959
I disagree with your analogy, I understand it, I just think it's wrong, which is why I asked you that question. Shame you're too dense to figure it out.
>>74944977
OP BTFO
>>74945298
Like 50% of abortions are niggers, so I'm in full support
>>74946849
How does that even relate to aborting fetuses conceived through incest or rape?
>>74945775
>pulling out
>condoms
So you've never had real sex huh. Blowing your load deep inside is the whole point of interacting with women. Just get a vasectomy.
>>74946970
>>74946777
קַרנָן
>>74946874
Yea, you could claim some logic along the lines of self defense or something
It wouldn't be moral for the state to choose one or the other, and human nature has always favored the childbearing adult over the possibility of a childbearing adult
>>74947046
ORANJE
>>74947074
lmao I didn't know there was a hebrew word for cuck.
the more you know.
>>74946970
אז שיתנו את התינוק למדינה, זאת לא בעיה. המדינה תשלם להם תקציבים בשביל כל תהליך ההיריון במקרה שהם לא יעבדו אם הם לא יוכלו עד שהעובר יצא וימסרו אותו לאימוץ, חבר שלך יכול לעצום עיניים ולהיות בטוח שהוא לא יראה את אותה אישה ואת הבן שלו בחיים.
When have women ever taken responsibility for their actions? The fact that they consider killing a baby "responsible" should be proof enough that women cannot be trusted to act like adults and need to be treated like children.
>>74945038
fpbp
>>74946993
No you don't fucking understand the analogy you stupid fuck because you mix up element (1) having unprotected sex/dropping out of school with element (2) committing a crime to rectify the mistake, the robbery or the abortion.
>>74944977
Don't worry you stupid jew. The government will just let in 200 million more somalis to impregnate your dignified women.
>>74946976
Take a good look at Africa senpai. Do you think you can teach responsible sex to these people and stop them from breeding like rabbits? In the US, the vast majority of abortions are performed on black women.
>>74946601
Okay, I'll take a new approach so you can understand.
Jews are just clusters of human cells, and I don't really think that they're conscious. Since no one can definitively prove to me that jews are sentient, I think it should be legal to kill all jews, oh and Hitler did nothing wrong, it was just post birth abortions.
>>74944977
>murdering someone
>a choice guaranteed by the free will of a person
>only if that person is a woman
Bitch wants to go full Kill Bill
>>74947191
Women are men when you take away reason and accountability
>>74946191
>these things automatically lead to getting knocked up, because absolutely no one but the government can stop that
>>74944977
An adult should have no problem taking responsibility that they have reproductive capabilities; someone who deserves to have control over their body should be responsible enough to not accidentally have a child.
>>74947160
על מה אתה מדבר? הוא עבר לאמריקה כי הבחורה לא הסכימה לעבור הפלה והוא פחד שהיא תתחיל לקחת ממנו מזונות.
חוץ מזה, הריון זה לא בדיוק זמן פשוט בשביל איזה. אני לא יכול לתאר לעצמי את הרגשות שעוברות לאישה שמגדלת איזה פרזיט שנולד מאיזה פשע נתעב. כמו שמישהו אחר כתב פה, אני נוטה להעדיף את הבן אדם הקיים, וזכויותיו, על גבי בן אדם פוטנציאלי וזכויותיו.
>>74944977
I agree with this 100% the government has no right to stick it's kike nose in a doctor's office.
>>74947225
I can prove to you that jews are sentient, can you fucking prove to me that an ovum is sentient?
But women are generally subhumans, everything fits.
>>74947028
I kind of feel bad for old women. Their entire lives are shaped by presenting themselves in a specific visual manner in order to find a mate, reproduce, and gain social power/dominance within their circles. But after 40, none of that shit really matters, and by 60 even the divorced women aren't looking for a sugar daddy anymore. Yet they still put on makeup, wear jewelry, by fashionable clothes, get their hair done up, all because it's a pattern of life they have led, even if the purpose has long since passed. It's a sad commentary on living after the natural point of life has gone.
>>74947032
This is the only correct answer
>>74947285
*a pregnant ovum
>>74947281
What if I regularly kill humans in my doctor's office?
>>74946677
People can't control their urges, apparently.
I get it, sex is enjoyable, and fun, and helps with bonding, but if you know you don't want kids, or can't deal with a kid right now, there are a lot of different ways to get your jollies off
>>74947285
You cannot prove to me that you have a conscious or are sentient in any way, it's similar to trying to prove if god exists or not, but you can try anyway.
>>74946473
Honestly, I don't know if I'm pro-choice or pro-life mainly because I don't see the fine line between human and not human. Why do you not consider a fertilised egg a new human?
>>74946902
You're missing his point. Killing is only illegal when there is a law to saying it is illegal. And it's only legally punishable when there is someone to enforce that law.
This idea that laws should or even can track morality completely is pretty far-fetched.
>>74945298
I support unlimited abortion. Because the world doesn't need more shitty parents making shitty kids.
>>74947281
>the doctor is now abducting people and murdering them for their organs
>Hurr I thought you republigans were anti big government!!
>it's not like upholding laws against murder is one of the single most agreed upon laws in all of societal existance
What is with you faggot liberals and you faggot generalities
Are you even capable of discussing a subject directly? It's always some extrapolation and appeal to emotion with you cucks
>>74947263
עצוב לי לשמוע שהחבר שלך נתקע במצב הזה, המצב הקיים לא טוב בגלל דוגמאות כאלה. אני אישית חושב שהמדינה פשוט צריכה לתת תקציבים לאותה אישה הרה, שלא תנעל את הפרטנר שלה במשפחה שהוא לא רצה.
עובר לא באמת פרזיט, הוא רוצה לאכול ולשתות כמו כל יצור אחר, האישה צריכה להבין שחוץ מהרגשות שלה היא בעצם רוצה לרצוח את הבן שלה, אפילו אם היא לא רצתה אחד כזה, היא צריכה להבין שהיא אפילו לא צריכה לבזבז רגע אחד עם העובר ברגע שהוא יוצא וכל מה שהיא צריכה לעשות הוא להציע אותו למדינה.
>>74945343
What's the difference?
>>74947372
What is your definition of sentient?
>>74947442
They can't help it. It always breaks down to this bullshit.
>>74944977
>> Holocaust was an atrocity 6M
>> Abortion in the US 55+M. NO PROBLEM!!
>>74945202
/thread
>>74946959
Everyone agrees that killing a child should be a crime.
What you and all other anti-abortion people fail to conclusively argue is that legal personhood (not just "life") begins at conception.
Reasonable minds can and do disagree on this topic, so to simply stick your fingers in your ears and say "NO CHILD KILLING!" is not exactly convincing rhetoric.
>>74947421
>the laws shouldn't attempt to be moral
Moral relativist scum
You must be 18 to post here little guy
You know how stupid you sound right now? Everyone knows that laws can be just and unjust
What logical basis do you tie your advocacy ti the law to then?
You're arguing for nihilism which defeats the purpose of nihilism.
Fuck off
>>74947428
Youre a murderer and you will eventually pay
>>74947519
And independent being capable not only of feeling and rational thought but awareness of the fact that it can feel and think.
>>74946272
Abortion is all about balancing the rights of the baby with the rights of the mother who is carrying him.
If we are talking about a fetus that has developed to a point where it starts having baseline brain functions, I agree with you: Even if it is the result of rape, his right to life trumps the right of the mother of not going trough the discomfort of an unwanted pregnancy.
But I wouldn't go as far as considering as "baby" a mass of unspecialized cells that have yet to develop into a brain stem. Lacking a brain, we can state that it has no consciousness or feelings. Even no soul according to classical christian theology.
It still is a blueprint for a human individual tthough, so it should be protected to some degree (I.e.: not aborted if the pregnancy could have been prevented by the parents by being responsible adults that do no think with their genitals). But if a legit reason like rape exist, abortion within a reasonable time span from conception should be granted, as the rights of a victim of rape, in my view, prevail over the collective interest of safeguarding life when it still has not developed to the point which we can consider it a baby.
>>74947386
We do. Ask any obgyn
>>74945038
>I wish I'd never taken the fucking pill...
True, fucking cunts.
>>74947607
>Everyone agrees that killing a child should be a crime.
http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/04/12/medethics-2011-100411
>>74947421
>laws shouldn't attempt to be moral
Fucking what? What do we base them on then? Off yourself anarchist trash.
>>74944977
watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMwkQVpy98A and educate yourselves, pol
>>74947729
Everyone but thousands of planned parenthood employees and all of the left
>>74945640
Both my gf and I monitor her reproductive cycle; we have good indications of when she's ovulating and we NEVER have sex on, or around those days. Mistakes SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.
I don't think legalising abortion increases abortion rates. It simply switches abortions from dangerous amateur procedures to medical abortions. So it saves lives to legalise it.
>>74944977
I'm pro-choice becuase without it the shitskins would multiply a hundred times faster and I don't that's an exaggeration considering the #1 killer of blacks is abortion.
>>74947730
Laws aren't always based on what's morally right, but rather on what's healthiest for society as a whole. For instance, speeding tickets. You will get a speeding ticket, even if you were driving to the hospital cause your son got injured. Is it moral to punish a man for wanting to rush to his injured son? No. Is it illegal drive faster than the speed limit? Yes.
>>74946308
Personal responsibility is one of those phrases the left reclassified as hate speech.
>>74947794
Wait, you have unprotected sex?
>>74947633
I guess the Jews have a false perception of their own sentience then.
>>74945703
If you're in the relationship you should know the cycle too.
>>74947848
Come on kike, prove to me that you are any more human than an unborn fetus, I'm waiting.
>>74944977
Who are these idiots that get creampied then just walk around like the inevitable won't happen?? Fucking degenerates...
Kill them as embryos, kill them as children. Women just enjoy killing babies.
>>74947901
? What is it you want, exactly?
![blackprolife28[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/QRCkYA2.png "blackprolife28[1].png")
>>74944977
the woman is responsible for more nigger deaths than AIDS and guns combined
good on her
>>74947616
You've misinterpreted my post. I never said that laws shouldn't attempt to be moral. I merely said that laws can never completely track morality. That is a yuge distinction.
>>74947956
Proof that you are sentient >>74947633
>>74947922
The abortion clinic is free, I think they even have one of those stamp cards now like you can get at sub places, the morning after pill is like $50.
>>74947633
Jews definitely don't fit that
Inb4 butthurt parasites.
>>74947848
>Jewish
>Secular
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
At least you're not Catholic.
>>74947607
>fail to
The only two logical positions for abortion are tied to what sets humans apart from other animals
Either it is mere being of humans (such that you will be one without abortion), or it is tied to some sort of mental development.
The first case would imply conception, because any point after conception is arbitrary.
The second case implies some point after birth, because humans do not demonstrate intelligence that exceeds those of other animals until after birth. And intelligence can mean whatever you want it to mean to demonstrate being "special"
So it's quite the contrary, you people are inherently based in feels and inconsistency. Either you're fine with infanticide, humanity starts at conception, or you're being irrational and arbitrary
>>74947872
If we're on something like the 27th day of her cycle we will. From days 6-10 and 17-25 we will use contracpetion 100%.
From days 10-17 we wont have sex.
>>74948003
If my posts aren't enough proof to you that I have more sentience than an organism with no brain then I'm not really sure what to say to you family.
>>74947901
We can't prove it since explaining the existence of gods is beyond the realm of human thinking.
:)
>>74947978
When did anyone ever imply they are capable of doing so
Do you even understand the concept of advocacy or are you just being edgy?
>>74948100
Damn dude, respect for keeping up on such a tight schedule. Aren't you concerned that the timings might start being off?
>>74948027
What was so triggering in my statement? Can you not see my point?
>>74948101
gibs Sinai
>>74947607
Please read the thread and follow the replies if you decide to chime in and leave your 2 cents.
Not to mention I'm not an anti-abortionist and you're just throwing me into a group, again, since you didn't read the thread.
It's not as simple as you say, there are two arguments here:
1. Where does life begin?
(And here you don't make any sense to me, because "conceptionists" actually have good arguments as to why life begins there while every point after that is a lot more arbitrary and basically relies on "well from the looks of it" and "here it is still practical to abort but afterwards it gets weird and hard").
2. The analogy and a big part of the discussion is about the argument made by Ginsburg - "something is important to me, so goverment should allow me to do it" and "well but sex is so tempting so what choice do we have" and "you let a woman choose to make a mistake but then you don't let her choose to deal with it".
Many of these arguments do exactly the opposite of what you say: They're unrelated to whether a fetus is a child and work just the same way with a born child.
The arrogance with which you put up strawmen is a bit annoying.
>>74948180
I wish I could go to sinai, you guys have the best beaches in the world there. All those falahs giving you cheap booze, truly heaven.
>>74947633
>independent
so someone that has had an accident and is temporarily dependent on specialized care is not sentient. huh...interdasting
>feeling and rational thought
what exactly is this feeling you talk about? is it the senses? the sentiments? what? and why is it feeling AND rational thought? if someone incapable of feeling is not sentient then a lot of people will not fit your definition. yes...autists and sociopaths exist and they post on the internets or run our societies/companies
>awareness of the fact that it can feel and think
awareness of self - ftfy
>>74947872
Wearing condoms in [current year]?! Make the bitch eat some pills.
>>74948098
>The first case would imply conception, because any point after conception is arbitrary.
That's a conclusory statement - it's only arbitrary because you say it is, not because it is impossible for reasonable minds to differ on this point.
Here I'll show you: it's not arbitrary. There, we are at a rhetorical stalemate.
>>74948264
Sometimes it's really damaging to a woman's health to use the pill.
>>74947848
That is a difference between ethics and morals you hook nosed bastard
Different areas subscribe to different speeding values because of the needs of the country and how much kikes like you have fucked the rule of law. It has nothing to do with morality
>>74948247
You can't? Why not?
>>74947028
Ginsburg hated Roe v. Wade for the same reason most conservative justices hated it. It was a flawed ruling made on a completely ad-hoc basis that somehow extracted abortion from a woman's right to privacy and did so poorly. The terrible legal reasoning is why the case has been disputed for so long.
>>74948120
>>74948101
I like you guys, you aren't bad.
But from a logical point of view, there is no more empirical evidence that you are sentient than a fetus. What is there to say that your posts aren't generated from a pre-programmed machine running on an algorithm that lacks awareness of anything else? You can't give me empirical evidence that you feel or think, it's that we, as humans, assume that all other humans are like us and feel and think the same way we do, but it can't actually be proved.
If I can't guarantee that you are conscious, then how can we guarantee that a fetus isn't? Couldn't that just be killing another person?
>>74948303
>because you say it is
No, it's arbitrary because there is no discernable point between the two positions that make a meaningful case for what constitutes humanity
I didn't just say it's arbitrary because I said so you daft cunt. Fucking read AND comprehend
>>74947421
There is a difference between what is illegal and what is unlawful. Legality essentially comes down to contracts and agreements, but it is possible for law and morality to be in line with each other if you strip it down to its simplest form ie God's common law of "do unto others" which is what the common law system should be and always should have been. Under this common law you are free to do anything as long as you don't infringe on another's right to do the same, ie it is unquestionably immoral to cause another person harm, injury or loss. Under this system it is easy to determine what is immoral and therefore unlawful because any act that creates a victim.
>>74947848
If I tried, I could argue that speeding and driving recklessly is religiously immoral because it breaks the 8th commandment (Thou shalt not steal.) Speeding is stealing other drivers' right to security and it puts yourself in danger of destroying your own body. Christians, or at least Catholics believe the body is holy. I have actually seen Christians make arguments similar to this.
>>74948261
Independent as in the thoughts and feelings originate from the mind of said organism, not a cripple or disabled old person.
>>74948006
They have stamp cards now? What's the prize after the 10th abortion? I've changed all of my views now.
>>74948417
Dude, I'm on your side of the argument. I'm against abortion at any case apart for it being impossible for it to grow up normally. That's because the fetus is alive at any point and it's murder to do that.
>>74944977
>Ginsburg
every time
>>74944977
If she doesn't want to bear a child, then she shouldn't have sex or excercise great caution with contraception.
Abortion is in fact murder.
>>74948382
The only reason she hates it is because it's gained as much dislike as lochner. If it didn't have its reputation she'd love it
Leftist judges and plenty on the right don't give a shit about jurisprudence she they disagree with it
>>74948331
Terrorists, dude. It's kind of unsafe to go there for israelis nowadays.
>>74948555
Checked
A FUC- oh wait... it wasn't a shitpost for once... shit... /pol/ btfo....
>>74948245
Again, the argument of "conceptionists" can't only be that life begins at conception. For their argument to make any sense they must also argue that legal personhood begins at conception. And I (and the Supreme Court) haven't been convinced that a fertilized egg should have all the legal protections of a grown man, despite the fact that it is technically "alive."
>>74948493
are you saying abortion is bad but killing old people is good? I really don't follow your logic
>the idiots arguing for society allowing more shitskin welfare leeches to be born
thank GOD you idiots will never be making important decisions for this country
>>74948540
>What's the prize after the 10th abortion?
A box of condoms!
>>74948646
>>74945311
That choice is to be made before having sex without proper protection
>>74944977
if its black then I dont care
>dont abort white babies
I honestly dont understand why this is a problem.
If you don't like abortions, dont have one. What other people do with their bodies is no one else's business. And no a fetus is not someone else so long as it is dependent on the mother, much like a parasite.
There shouldn't be any argument here. No one should be forcing a woman to carry a child to term if she just doesn't feel like it.
>>74944977
Kike Whore Baby Eater
>>74948167
No not at all. Mentrual cycles rarely become unhinged within a month and I also feel that with the precautions we have in place we would be able to observe alterations in her cycle long before getting her pregnant.
Also this kind of organisation is the small price for being able to have FUN, CAREFREE sex without worrying about getting her knocked up. On days 25-28 i use her as my sex slave at home and fuck her whenever, wherever i want and cum inside her for days. Feels fucking good man.
>>74948310
So use a condom, anymore excuses?? I'd love to know what percent of woman that might effect..
>>74948540
>>74948006
They should offer free abortions along with free fried chicken and a gun in every single ghetto in America
How can we NOT have abortion in our current degenerate state of society? Most abortions are happening on subhumans who would amount to criminals.
>>74948700
>legal personhood must exist at conception
>equivalent to a grown man
There are different classes of legal existance retard
What do you think an 8 month fetus that does have legal protection implies?
You realize that the supreme Court is cogniscent of the fact that they're completely fucked for even touching the issue and are trying to tie it to viability? You do understand that viability will eventually be conception?
Actually it's evident you haven't read up on the issue and your ignorant and stupid
>>74948435
Again, just because you say there is no discernible point doesn't make it so. Great legal minds across the globe have put forward a variety of discernible points, all of which are carefully considered and not offered without supporting logic and reason (and thus not arbitrary) The fact that you disagree with them doesn't mean that they don't exist.
>>74948723
>welfare leeches
>welfare
It's almost like there's something else to that problem.....
>>74948909
Take it easy m8, they're gonna be getting pregnant on purpose at that point.
>>74948819
excuse my unaborted stupid mind...I wasn't reading the right posts.
so what you're saying is that abortion is good and killing old people is good.
you name ends in -stein doesn't it?
or did you just get out of postmodern postcolonial women's studies?
>>74945149
>be American
>kill babies
>kill burglars
>use foetus bits in beauty cream
>use "donated" bodies as fertiliser
>????
>PROFIT
>>74944977
I reject her premise and consider her conclusion unfounded.
>>74944977
She is really fucking ugly
>>74948819
The problem is whether or not it is legalized murder. If the fetus is indeed a true human, then it has a right to life just like an adult, making abortion a form of murder. If the fetus is not a true human then I guess it would be alright to kill it, just like drowning small puppies in a wash tub because you can't afford to have it or don't want it around.
>>74948819
>if you don't like x, don't do it
>if you don't like murder, don't do it
>if you don't like nuclear holocaust, don't do it
Easily the most lazy argument from leftists in recent memory
>>74948303
>conceptionists make good points for why it begins at conception
>abortionists say "okay but later is more convenient for me"
>"we're at a stalemate"
Yes, there are different biological markers but "to a reasonable mind" none of them make any more sense than conception if you don't account for emotions and practicability of abortion. We say arbitrary because people are literally using stuff like "the soul of a fetus takes 40 days to ripe for men and 80 days for women".
>>74948700
Would be nice if you could admit that your last post was 90% bullshit since you didn't read the thread and you're just here to argue about when legal personhood begins.
And the entire point is that "alive" and "has new recombinated human DNA" are the best reasons to give someone legal personhood that we have. Everything after that just adds qualifiers that are influenced by emotions and thoughts of practicability 99% of the time and logically inconclusive 100% of the time.
Yes, you can use markers like "feels pain", "can live independently", "has a conscience", "has a brain", "can move", "his soul had time to ripen" but none of them are logically sound.
But all of this is unrelated to Ginsburg's argument which started this thread and which is just as intellectually dishonest.
If abortion isn't murder why is killing a pregnant woman a double homicide?
>>74948996
If they eliminated welfare then crime would just sky rocket and I would want niggers aborted anyway
>>74949063
>>74949069
>Literally ad hominem
Kek
>>74948874
That's some good shit anon, good for you. Is she a redhead? I know that's not a big deal in ireland but still.
>>74948487
Even under this logic, what constitutes speeding? There is no moral absolute or boss universal, other than man-made law on this particular issue.
>>74949133
It's a double homicide because your legal system is stupid and inconsistent. Hmmmm, makes you think.
>>74944977
Okay, nobody argues.
>>74948909
>>74948985
>great legal minds
It's not a legal issue cunt
>the fact that you disagree
Lol you can't come up with a rebuttal to a very specific point. And you're appealing to authority like a cuck because you're too stupid to understand or come up with a point of your own.
I'm not appealing to muh personal values here.
Can you show me any point between the two I've previously stated where "humanity" suddenly exists and is deserving of rights?
>>74949218
I'm fairly sure that the maximum allowed speed for areas takes into account the average human reaction time, road conditions, car durability, car condition and so on. These numbers didn't just pop out of the sky, they're like that for a reason. Drive more than 30km/h in a pedestrian area and you're far, far more likely to not be able to react to a hazard in time and as a result cause an accident.
>>74945958
>Are you saying that a one hour old pregnant ovum is now a human?
Yes.
>>74949161
It's almost like people would dispute your little premise you're operating under there
>>74948758
Shit, who the fuck wears condoms?
>>74949312
this >>74947965 is worth some white trash degenerate's child being a cripple
>>74948985
1. Legal minds have to think differently. They can't exclusively use logic, they have to look at social viability. The Supreme Court that you cited said, to my knowledge, explicitly that they're not gonna bother with discerning a logical medical point but have to look at "what works in the real world".
You're taking the word "arbitrary" literally, which is rather autistic but fair game. What we mean is "a logically inconsistent and far weaper position".
Take Singer for example, arguing that it depends on whether the fetus can feel pain yet. No, it's not arbitrary, but it's still fucking retarded. Or the guy arguing it depends on whether the child has a brain and "awareness". No, it's not arbitrary, but it's still fucking retarded.
Conception however is almost without any counterarguments aside from "well that's really inconvenient for me and a bit too hardcore".
>>74948758
>somebody getting their 10th abortion would ever use a condom
Use your noodle anon
You decide that every time have sex, unless you have contraceptives.
>>74949285
Oh? My legal system is stupid?
You know your country can, has, and will jail people for racism?
>>74949378
people who would dispute wanting less niggers? yeah I can tell you exactly what type of people those are
>>74949507
That reduction in welfare would cause more crime
I'm not arguing it, it's just obtuse to assume that would be the case absolutely
>>74949086
Conservatives have no argument besides "serves you right for being a whore."
>>74949022
Wrong person m8. I didn't say anything about old people.
>>74949075
So long as it cannot survive outside the mother's womb, it doesn't matter if it is human or not. At that point its a parasite and it should be her own decision and right to remove it from her person.
>>74949464
And even then literally everyone knows or should know contraceptives aren't 100%
>>74949173
No she isnt,redheads are in the minority here. The moral of the story is its not hard to not get pregnant.
>>74949218
Great point, but then how do you truly define morality at all? What moral teachings aren't man made and how can you prove it? Murder is definitely not acceptable in our cultures , but what if you twisted the perception of murder into an event that is celebrated? How can we prove murder is an act forbidden by God when we can't even prove God? What laws of morality have been created by nature even though nature is not a sentient force?
>>74949484
Our legal system is outright malicious and a threat to the freedom of the rest of the anglosphere, but that has nothing to do yours.
Remind me again how gay marriage was legalised in the US. A "reinterpretation", wasn't it?
>>74944977
why do jewish people hate children so much?
>>74949640
Your welcome to dispute
>>74948098
And I'm pretty sure the conservative position is that being a whore doesn't make it ok to murder [people]
