did the holocaust really happen /pol/?
>>74871671
Sure! Why not? Lots of things can happen...
some jews got rounded up, died of Typhus and starvation because of food shortages and hygiene and then exaggerated a lot of bullshit
>>74871671
The "6 trillion were gassed in giant ovens" meme came from the fact that during Germany's great, great inflation/depression one of the most popular ways of suicide was laying your head down on a gas stove and breathing in the gasses for a while before turning it on.
And then the jews found a way to use the mass suicide of goyim to kill more goyim and protect themselves from criticism, all while making a profit.
The holocaust happened but the official story is bullshit.
The Jews weren't systematically gassed and cremated.
They died of disease and starvation (caused by the allies bombing supply lines).
The death camps were labor and internment camps.
The holocaust as we know it is was a lie to justify the creation of Israel.
Everything I'm saying is illegal in my country.
No Proofs.
Surely Containment Camps happened, but not a planned "ausrottung" of a particular group.
Camps contained the following groups:
- Communists
- Anarchists
- Gay
- Crippled
- POW
- Poor Jews
Rich Jews were in different camps were they learned the kibbutz life and after a few months flew to Is Ra Hell.
>remember, with great white power comes great responsibility
Was that really necessary?
>>74871671
Yeah, sure. I guess. The holocaust happened and Lewis and Clark were best friends and Communism works so why worry? Just sit back and let it all happen.
>>74872180
>Everything I'm saying is illegal in my country
and THAT'S why we take issue with Kikes.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial1.html
> inb4 hurr durr theyre jews so they must be liars
Just pick up a history book. If you're going to dismiss every evidence you're given, eventually you'll be able to reach whatever conclusion that you're looking to reach.
>>74872412
>Rich Jews were in different camps were they learned the kibbutz life and after a few months flew to Is Ra Hell.
Mfw stormniggers literally invent their own alternate history to justify their ideology.
You guys are worse than Tumblr, I swear.
>>74873039
If it happened why did the soviet union need to build chimneys in Auschwitz?
A mountain of lies is always built on a small convenient fact, and once that fact comes to light the mountain falls.
>>74871759
I'm telling you bud, the more stuff I read like that, the less I think there was ever a holocaust. /pol/ is the best redpill of all redpills.
>>74871671
Yes. Read all the evidence from the post-war trials. There's a massive amount of it. Also, not that not a single high-profile Nazi ever denied the Holocaust. Denial is a meme phenomenon that emerged with butthurt faggots in the 1980s who wanted to get attention, just like they were 16yo girls (though there were a very small number of prior deniers). Denial arguments are also well suited to people with autism (I counted the crematoria and did the sums so it couldn't have happened!). No professional historian with a PhD (i.e. demonstrated expertise) has ever adopted a denial position. It's pretty simple, anons.
>>74871671
It happened in all of our hearts
>>74873039
Hello I would like a real picture of a gas chamber. Every places I've tried looking for one I found crematory rooms and fumigation rooms. I have yet to see a real gas chamber made by the german during the second world war.
>>74871759
lol at the retarded extermination story.
>>74873039
>A source straight from the jews.
Color me amazed. Surely this means the holocaust occured because the people profiting from it declare it all the time.
>>74871671
Yes I lost over 12 members of my family to the shoah
>>74873353
>>74873269
Nuremberg was a political trial most proofs are testimony of tortured prisonners.
The Russian even put the blame on the german of their own massacres.
>>74873269
A lot of historian have tried to revised this historical period but when they do so they are attacked in justice for genocide denial. There's even a law in France that forbid scientists, historians or any qualified individual to make studies about the jewish genocide.
Now I ask the question why would the french gvt raise a special law to forbid people to study this particular case but you can study the Rwanda genocide or the Armenian genocide without any issues?
Did a lot of Jews die in Concentration Camps? Yes.
Were there gas chambers? No.
Did 6 million Jews die? No.
Did the majority of Jews die from illness, starvation, and allied bombing? Yes.
>>74873484
REMOVE THIS
>>74874008
Oy vey
>>74873269
>Also, not that not a single high-profile Nazi ever denied the Holocaust.
The term "holocaust" wasn't used then, but yes they did deny systematic extermination of Jews at Nuremberg. Only few of them (Speer i.e.) said that they didn't know what has happening in the camps till they were shown reels in the court so they took what was shown to them for a fact.
>Denial arguments are also well suited to people with autism (I counted the crematoria and did the sums so it couldn't have happened!)
Fact finding isn't autism.
>No professional historian with a PhD (i.e. demonstrated expertise) has ever adopted a denial position
There are many that deny gas chambers, causes of death, genocidal intent etc, and most of them don't even have general agreement on the final death count.
Just to be sure, almost all mainstream Holocaust revisionists ("deniers") don't even deny that what happened is still a war crime.
Can any of you retards include a link to anything you say?
>>74873487
Nope. Most of it was administrative documents produced by the Germans themselves -- self-incrimination. Like the Wannsee Protocol, for instance. Just read the stuff yourself, like:
"The purpose of the Nuremberg trial was not merely, or even principally, to convict the leaders of Nazi Germany ... Of far greater importance, it seemed to me from the outset, was the making of a record of the Hitler regime which would withstand the test of history."
—Robert Storey, head of the US prosecution team
>>74873791
A lot of Historians have not. A few butthurt amateurs have. And there's a law for a reason -- conspiratorial denial of what is proven is destructive and promotes hate. Exactly the kind of hate that lead to the Holocaust and which ethical people are trying to prevent happening ever again in the future.
But /pol/ will always have its autistic butthurt faggots who want attention.
>>74874130
I'm not an expert but I'm a french citizen. It is normal for me to question laws in my country that claims to be a heaven of free speech.
When it's an offense in France to QUESTION the existence or size of the category of crimes against humanity as defined in the London Charter of 1945, on the basis of which Nazi leaders were convicted by the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in 1945-46 (art.9).
I don't know for you but I find that rather strange.
>>74874179
No they didn't deny it at Nuremberg. Some said they didn't know; some tried to pass blame to others. The testimony of Göring is a good place to start. He's a squirming, nasty little weasel desperately trying to save his butt.
>>74874179
Some variation in estimates of the final death count isn't proof it didn't happened. As a wise man said, just because there is dusk doesn't mean there isn't night and day.
>>74874179
There's a massive difference between those who wish to revise the totals down and those who want to say it never happened. The latter are the most hilariously spergy people on the whole Internet. And the point still holds that spergy people love their mathematical arguments while denying a massive body of complex historical evidence that requires interpretation.
>>74874449
Like I quoted here >>74874449
It's not even about consipiration or denial.
It is an offense to QUESTION like literally it's illegal to have the thought of questioning the size of something that might have happened.
>>74873137
I don't know how to answer that, since I've never heard of this. Got a source for this?
However, can you dismiss tens of thousands of LIVING people, one of them being my grandmother, who as much as I know has no interest in justifying the creation of Israel to me, and even though she told me numerous stories about the camp?
People have reported to have seen people being driven away by trucks, most of them are nowhere to be seen again. Could it be that the majority of the trucks have been bombed?
>>74871671
If only it did, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
>>74873039
evidences:
>i-i was there! its true! 4 million!
>no one believes that mr oy vey there's no proofs
>o-okay 2 million then
>no wait it was 20 million!
>>74874449
>conspiratorial denial of what is proven is destructive and promotes hate
Kek
>claiming there was no functional gas chamber in Auschwitz is destructive and promotes hate
>claiming bunch of inmates died of typhus and starvation is destructive and promotes hate
Also, could you please elaborate how it was "proven" to be destructive and promote hate? :^)
>>74874808
Personally I don't mind the law against denial, just because the potential damage of online spergs is really quite huge. It's more important to protect from genocide in the future than it is to let aspie faggots say whatever they want. Hopefully one day Europe will become mature enough to have informed discussions that don't involve damaging fringe retard positions. But until the retards are bred out, it's what we're stuck with!
Why don't you put energy into locating the ever-living King of Rock 'n Roll? It seems a more useful cause (huh huh huh)?
>>74874449
Nothing to do with attention or anything if you're a curious individual and want to inform yourself you could do some research about Robert Faurisson he's a famous and recognized historian. He is specialized about the concentration camp and the jewish condition during the world war. He used to be a teacher at the Sorbonne and has a made extremely serious studies. You can look it up on youtube and see how he is being treated here.
>>74875144
Proven is understanding what contributes to genocide. Forms of mass hysteria that scapegoat large populations is the key, hence some immature European countries need to restrict such retardation. It makes a lot of sense, imho.
And I love how deniers always love to start with "but I counted the crematoria with my calculator and deaths per hour x number of Jews / how much my butt hurts = it just can't have happened!"
>>74875187
Now you're not thinking with your brain and you're throwing out already made up sentences. I guess I'll stop here because I doubt you're as serious as I imagined you have a nice day.
>>74875240
>Robert Faurisson
was a hateful professor of French literature.
= not professional qualified as a historian. I'm happy to listen to him analyzing Rimbaud, but beyond that sphere of professional qualification, he's an amateur and not to be taken seriously.
Does it worry you that the only supporters you can find have credentials that fall apart on the slightest scrutiny?
>>74875586
Can you show me where his credential falls apart? Because he's been in several trials in France and yet nobody came up with something that refute his studies.
If you have proofs that refutes his claims please let me know.
>>74875844
He's a scholar of French literature and not a historian. It's about his professional expertise. It's very simple, anon.
>>74873269
>Also, not that not a single high-profile Nazi ever denied the Holocaust.
"so it's about time for you to testify eh goyim? I sure hope you're ready to confess to your crimes. You have a beautiful family after all, it would be a SHAME if something happened to them, wouldn't it?"
>>74874863
Jews tell lies so much that they end up believing their own lies. Go away, kike.
>>74874791
>There's a massive difference between those who wish to revise the totals down and those who want to say it never happened
I'll repeat, almost all Holocaust 'deniers' I stumblet upon don't deny the war crime, but argue over 3 things essentially:
1. Gas chambers were not a murder weapon
2. There was no systematic EXTERMINATION program
3. The issue of total count, including specifics of what ethnicity they were, causes of their death etc.
>>74875586
No need to reply to you with specific names since you'll just greentext them with few carefully picked discreditations from Wikipedia.
Meanwhile, Noam Chomsky on Faurisson:
>Dr. Robert Faurisson has served as a respected professor of twentieth-century French literature and document criticism for over four years at the University of Lyon-2 in France. Since 1974 he has been conducting extensive historical research into the "Holocaust" question.
>Since he began making his findings public, Professor Faurisson has been subject to a vicious campaign of harassment, intimidation, slander and physical violence in a crude attempt to silence him. Fearful officials have even tried to stop him from further research by denying him access to public libraries and archives.
We strongly protest these efforts to deprive Professor Faurisson of his freedom of speech and expression, and we condemn the shameful campaign to silence him.
>We strongly support Professor Faurisson's just right of academic freedom and we demand that university and government officials do everything possible to ensure his safety and the free exercise of his legal rights
>>74875938
He's not a french literature teacher. He USED to be a teacher in text analysis about literature, history and media. But that was like the 40years ago. Are you saying this man worked over half a century for nothing because he isn't a historian graduate? I think your point is rather silly and doesn't refute the fact he exposed.
>>74871671
We can dream
>>74875586
Chomsky again:
>Let me add a final remark about Faurisson's alleged "anti-Semitism." Note first that even if Faurisson were to be a rabid anti-Semite and fanatic pro-Nazi -- such charges have been presented to me in private correspondence that it would be improper to cite in detail here -- this would have no bearing whatsoever on the legitimacy of the defense of his civil rights. On the contrary, it would make it all the more imperative to defend them since, once again, it has been a truism for years, indeed centuries, that it is precisely in the case of horrendous ideas that the right of free expression must be most vigorously defended; it is easy enough to defend free expression for those who require no such defense. Putting this central issue aside, is it true that Faurisson is an anti-Semite or a neo-Nazi? As noted earlier, I do not know his work very well. But from what I have read -- largely as a result of the nature of the attacks on him -- I find no evidence to support either conclusion. Nor do I find credible evidence in the material that I have read concerning him, either in the public record or in private correspondence. As far as I can determine, he is a relatively apolitical liberal of some sort
>>74875938
Do you consider David Irving a historian? If not, why not?
Happened but not 6 gorrilion
>>74876629
Read Iriving v. Penguin books. Irving's reputation is in shreds by the end. Personally he's never recovered and is now just a speaker to butthurt hate groups.
The point with Faurisson still stands. Unless you have the highest professional qualification in a field, there's no reason for others to take you seriously or think you're anything but a crank amateur.
I get very amused by the fact that Holocaust denial mostly is a group of a couple of dozen butthurt white men who write books outside their professional fields, and then /pol/ likes to talk only about these freaks and not about the writings of thousands of qualified historians. It's always the same six or so names who come up in this thread, and they're always fucking idiots.
Leuchter is my favorite for his cringeworthy incompetence. I like too how the quite impartial and rigorous judge at the Zundel trial deals with Leuchter:
"THE COURT: His opinion on this report is that there were never any gassings or
there was never any exterminations carried on in this facility. As far as I am
concerned, from what I've heard, he is not capable of giving that opinion ... He is not
in a position to say, as he said so sweepingly in this report, what could not have been
carried on in these facilities."
Fucking ouch!!
>>74877255
>Read Iriving v. Penguin books. Irving's reputation is in shreds by the end. Personally he's never recovered and is now just a speaker to butthurt hate groups.
I didn't ask you about his reputation (which you read on Wikipedia) but wether you regard him as a historian. If not, why not?
Do you consider Germar Rudolf to be a chemist? If not, why not?
Waiting for you to pluck Wikipedia discreditations and paste them here. :^)
>incompetence
Meanwhile, Raul Hilberg refused to return to testify in 1988 for fear of cross-examination, they could not produce one expert witness in gas chambers or crematories to refute the defence claims.
>>74878511
Irving was shown in the trial to be a historian imposter. He doesn't have a PhD and close examination of his works shows him to be a charlatan -- just read the trial for clear proof. And the proof that he personally hasn't recovered.
I'll wait on Rudolph until his "findings" are evaluated by experts. I wish a betting agency would take bets on the outcome.
And fwiw, I studied some of this stuff at uni and am pulling quotations from transcripts of the trials and pdfs of books, which is a higher standard of persuasion than you almost ever see in threads like this! Higher even than the evidence you've employed, dear anon.
But let's not talk about a handful of fringe spergs. Let's look at what the world's most qualified experts have to say using the maximum amount of evidence and creating the best possible arguments while asking the best possible questions. This, simply, is why denial is not an issue except in spergy fringe places online where little anon wants to feel special.
Why does this small group of largely discredited "experts" interest you so much? What motivates your interest in denial? Is it possible too that Shakespeare isn't Shakespeare and that green men are in Area 52.
