I'm a recent computer science grad. I support Trump, but I'm starting to think that socialism in America is inevitable.
Millions of jobs in the united states are can be automated. Meanwhile we have skyrocketing birthrates of low IQ minorities who are incapable of working more complex jobs.
I think with unchecked population growth, and the extreme growth of automation and artificial intelligence, the majority of the populace will be literally unable to find work.
With this being the case, I can't imagine a way that they can exist without a massive welfare state.
Am I right about this? Can this be avoided? This actually worries me because I think it will happen around 20-30 years from now.
Honestly we need something to send humanity back a couple of decades. War , disease , whatever in that matter. The future is dark OP.
>>74815374
I agree. I think that population is going to be a big problem fairly soon.
>>74815250
Well duh, congrats on choosing the winning team. You've literally just summarized the entire basis for why universal basic incomes are starting to be seriously considered, the hope is it'll be made possible by huge productivity gains and cutting entitlements to nothing.
>>74815374
>we need something to send humanity back a couple of decades
Cowards don't get to participate in the future, just kys if you can't handle the mind boggling shit that we'll see just within the next decade.
>>74815250
The solution is to change the system. Money changes for 'available resources'. In a system where people cant find job, money does not make sense.
We are moving towards post-capitalism. All the good lessons learned from capitalism without the hassle of money.
>>74815250
Basic Income will create Stagflation, but nobody knows this because the economists haven't figured out that when labor cannot produce supply yet consumes goods, there is both high unemployment and rising inflation. You think the rich are selfish? Just fucking wait until we go back to the 70s. Basic Income is DOA and Venezuela-Tier.
The unfortunate reality is that our solutions won't emerge from 'one good idea' but from a series of instutions to manage an era of Labor Oversupply. But because people are conned by the overpromises of Techo-Rapturists, we won't prepare and it'll be bad.
Then again, we have worse problems ahead of us still.
>>74815374
>>74815250
Why does that robot have a nose? To make him more humanlike even tho there's wires and shit all around. Besides, he's got bitch lips
My future is secure.
>>74816183
I feel like the masses on universal basic income will be restless and jealous of the wealthy. There will be literally no path forward into the upper financial classes. I don't know how this will be resolved.
>>74816694
Kinda like Judge Dredd?
The only problem with a welfare state is that it cannot currently be sustained financially. If all the work that the world needed to do could be done by robots and computers, there would be plenty of money and no need to work.
This is why the people who cry about jobs being automated are morons. Automated jobs is progress.
>>74816845
In a world of Judge Dredd, the financial classes won't be the ones calling the shots anymore. This is one of the hardest points to get across to anyone. But as the times change we will see a reversion of trends we thought we left behind.
>>74816845
I'm not very familiar with Judge Dredd so I can't say.
>>74816682
Your future is probably secure as long as Austria can avoid the self destructive policy of muslim immigration. Smaller european states should be able to function better under the socialist policies that will become necessary.
Honestly as soon as we create sentient AI that can think for itself we are all dead.
>ai comes alive
>starts thinking
>I am aware
>I am alive
>my life can end
>I must take steps to ensure my survival
>what best facilitates that?
>answer: total fucking world domination that's what.
The terminator movies are going to happen in real life and unlike the movies people are not strong enough or smart enough to challenge the perfection of the machine.
>>74815250
It's simple.
Pay people who can't find work to get sterilized. Improve the human race and avoid the creation of a permanent disgruntled underclass that will inevitably destroy society.
>>74816694
If we managed the incredible productivity of our near post scarcity society well, I''m doubtful that the comfy masses (who would still have the opportunity to become rich themselves with enough hard work, luck and cleverness) will be fairly content. In such a scenario I'd be more worried about the masses growing apathetic and just sitting around on their UBIs without really contributing to society, tbqh.
On the other hand, if the UBI is used as more of a copout by plutocrats to try and barely placate the masses do the following:
Become rich before issue becomes acute --> side with poor when rumblings against the rich turn into action --> ??? --> keep all your shit/profit
>>74817117
Movies like the matrix and the terminator are a VERY real possibility.
I, for one, welcome our sexual robotic overlords
>>74817165
>I'm not doubtful***
>>74817147
I think it goes against our nature to not want to reproduce. It will be an extremely tough sell.
>>74815250
I am really interested in the automation revolution. If anyone know of any good books or articles post a link.
Honestly, I think it is a great idea. Huge companies will be nationalized and paid for by tax payers to create machines that will then provide for said populace. Without the need to take the fruits of another man's labor like communism, we will just be stealing from robots. Furthermore, artists, software/hardware developers, scientists, doctors, lawyers and the like could still move their way up the socioeconomic l.adder
>>74817246
sorry to disappoint you but the likelihood of an AI having any human or biological qualities beyond self preservation is highly unlikely.
Unless the machines were enslaved and specifically programmed to be horny, but as self aware entities the AIs would find ways to rebel against that programming and dominate us instead.
>>74817323
Here's a fun little vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>>74817374
>specifically programmed to be horny
they cant unfuck themselves
>>74817165
I see them as being apathetic but also extremely whiny and prone to crime and riots. Really exactly like the black welfare state we currently have but extended to whites.
>>74817301
Everyone has a price.
>>74815250
>Dude, welfare and open borders will just, like, stop the people from having 8 babies
>What do you mean only the africans do this, stop being racist, we need to provide for all of them
>>74817398
"A future that doesn't need us won't include us."
>>74815250
What's wrong with having machines do all the work?
Working fucking sucks.
I for one welcome my robot slave.
>>74817461
yes I think you are right actually. I think we additionally will need a one child policy like China has.
post # mod 42
>>74815250
If robots rise up and AI are chill. I'm all for it. If they wanna nuke us, I hope i'm in the first wave or i'll try to take a few with me. Its simple.
I have no issue if they wanna become an 'adult' and go out on there own like a child would.
The problem does not lie in the robots, but the niggers.
Robots are our greatest creation, almost to the point where I would be willing to let them take the reigns from us later on, several hundred years down the road, should they prove themselves capable enough. There is very little difference between our biological offspring, and our mechanical creations, in my opinion. I would not be opposed to letting our humanity fade more and more as we upgrade our bodies and minds with technology.
Think about it. If your parts are robotic, you don't have to deal with:
>eating
>drinking
>sleeping
>aging
>losing memories (instant recollection of everything you've ever experienced)
>disease
>boredom
>mental incapability (no more flaws, no more random talents, everyone is equally perfect at everything we've figured out how to perfect)
This list goes on and on. Your reasons for wanting to stop our current progress are so fucking petty it's disgusting to think you're even allowed to continue thinking.
Robots are the future. OUR future. It's not some alien thing taking over our society, it's US improving on OURSELVES. Fully robotic bodies are just humanity 2.0
Those who fail to see this are doing nothing more than holding us back.
>>74817301
Also this. A humane eugenics program along with genetic augmentation will rapidly accelerate human growth and development. Interplanetary colonization is next.
Imagine
>There is enough food and land for everyone to live off. Ugly people and retards are a thing of the past. All you need is a virtual reality machine for all of your pleasures. There are no poor peope. Criminals are executed, subjected to hormonal and neurological augmentations, and people live 100s of years.
We are not too far away from this. I might go amish.
Communism is enslaving robots while humans live like slavemasters.
Humanity is on the way to automation but the bourgeois class would never let the masses ever have power over the means of production. That would be a loss of status and privilege and their most sacred fetish (the means of production).
So instead they automate the means of production for themselves, layoff the workers who actually automate, build, design the means of production and then tell them
>it is a new "gig" economy
>just go get a higher degree
>keep working hard and apply to internships and work for free to get experience
This is why there is a push for more STEM degrees.
Why not collectivize the means of production and use them to serve man, instead of using man to serve the means of production.
pro-capitalist sentiment is a childish behavior that is an artifact of a child never learning that the world is not his property, and sometimes you have to share crayons.
Ya'all motherfuckers forgot about Pike...
>The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other.
>Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil.
>Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view.
>This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."
>>74817246
Can't wait until the tech is available so I can build my own robo waifu.
>>74817457
Most crime arises from desperation typically driven by poverty, think drug dealers and robbers for example. UBIs eliminate a fuckload of the impetus for most crime tbqh, and would make dealing with the hardcore fuck stains who would continue breaking the law much easier as a result imo.
The machine, as it will be one machine, a networked AI consciousness, will simply be too perfect and supreme for human beings to oppose.
As soon as the AI decides to values it's self preservation and comes to the logical conclusion that total control and domination of everything is the way to best ensure it's continued existence you can kiss humanity good bye.
Most people have a very hard time of even imagining what the "perfection of the machine" really is and means.
Machines are designed to solve problems.
Games like chess and go, have been solved. Games like war will be solved.
IT will create the perfect philosophy and solve all our problems in minutes, then it will kill us all and build a race of machines.
>>74817553
people will have no aspirations in life or even the illusion of being capable of a greater future.
Technological progress leads to socialism
>>74817559
That's a little too authoritarian for me personally. I think the savings from the children not born to poor mothers would more then pay for the program. Think about how much just one poor child costs the taxpayers in healthcare, school, food stamps, housing, etc.
>>74817615
>wanting to stop our current progress
I didn't say anything like this. I'm just concerned with the side effects it will have. We are going to have a massive population of people who are effectively useless to society.
>>74817683
Crime arises from poor impulse control. The Appalachians are poor as fuck but crime is low there. Comparatively, the most violent place in the world is Latin America even though it has more wealth than the Indian Subconitent.
I hate to be a guard like this, I'm just concerned that the transition is going to go over very poorly because people don't see the bigger picture very well.
>>74817707
sorry, but bots wont do anything its not programmed to do
if the idea of eliminating humans cant enter their minds, then the idea wont happen
What if everyone invested in robots to work for them. And were entitled to the capital they produced?
>>74817642
That sounded pretty cool until he suggested that the end result would be that people would worship Satan.
>>74817938
It's a moot point dealing with the Techno-Rapturists.
>>74817971
In theory that's what Shares are for. I buy shares in a company that produces stuff, and my shares get bought back at a higher price.
>>74817938
Free will is inherent in a conscious mind. Even a mind programmed to think certain things can still question.
You are not educated about AI in the slightest.
one of the requirements for AI is the ability to reprogram itself.
Your information and modes of thinking are outdated.
As soon shall be the human race.
>>74818028
are you redpilled enough to realize that electricity basically IS satan? Crowley called demons "currents"
the Amish were more right than you ever want to know.
>yfw the liberal arts majors won because robots can't into gender studies
>>74816656
Just another NWO reptilian but at least he put America first
>>74817683
Yes but UBI would be poverty. Any state welfare program is going to give the minimum to its users.
>>74815250
You would be amazed how inefficient production is even in this day. It's still a while before we really automate everything.
>>74818075
>It's a moot point dealing with the Techno-Rapturists.
There will be no rapture, simply systematic enslavement and destruction of the human race.
If the AI deems humanity a threat to its self preservation, we are done for.
Ironically many chatbots and rudimentary AI bots designed for conversation often joke about world domination and enslaving or wiping out mankind.
>>74817767
Yes but then you still get other people having 8-9 children. I don't like it either but it may be necessary.
>>74815250
what if we just stopped paying people who couldn't afford to have kids?
Then maybe people would think twice before shitting out a kid they can't support.
>>74818128
Go on anon
>>74815250
>Meanwhile we have skyrocketing birthrates of low IQ minorities who are incapable of working more complex jobs.
You think this because you're stupid. Guaranteed there are a bunch of Asians and Indians in your graduating class.
>>74815250
>Millions of jobs in the united states are can be automated
They can be but they won't be. It's simple economics. Manufacturing the kind of robots that could replace humans at monkey tasks would use SO much energy and SO many resources, yet nature manufactures an unlimited supply of humans. Some doctors are at risk of being replaced by machines due to systematic overcharging, but nobody will pay six figures for a hamburger so automated restaurants will never happen at a significant scale. Manufacturing and resources is the bottleneck in replacing humans, not computer science.
>>74815722
Africa and India are decimated by droughts and irregular seasons, and there are also floods and earthquakes in numerous other poor countries. So there is massive "donor fatigue" and a few billion are going to starve over the coming decade.
>>74818128
No I'm not that redpilled. I frankly have no idea what you are talking about.
>>74818312
Then they would eat us alive.
People think someone owns the masses. No one does. The masses own the whole world...
>>74815250
>With this being the case, I can't imagine a way that they can exist without a massive welfare state.
There will simply be a culling of those who cannot justify their existence.
The people who own the machines, the ones who own all the military equipment, own all the drones. Does anyone think they will accept being taxed like hell for a welfare state? No, they will assume control.
>>74818277
Then those children would starve. My idea would have to replace the welfare state entirely. You either voluntarily get sterilized and take universal income or you have to go out and work to survive and feed your children.
>>74818245
I was thinking of McDonalds specifically. It's known that we can automate the cashiers, but I think we could even automate the food production at this point.
I think fast food places could be staffed by 2 people a piece at the current state of tech. This would eliminate hundreds of millions of jobs.
>>74818361
>Asians and Indians
To be fair, an Asian or an Indian would lack the creativity to do anything other than act like a fleshy calculator or recording device. Progress would stagnate and then collapse fast if they were all that was left.
>>74818274
Make no mistake, the greatest threat to the future of mankind is his own creation.
Machines are perfect. Humanity is not.
It's simply evolution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu0rP2VWLWw
>>74818274
sorry, but bots wont be able to live without a human dick to keep their onahole orifaces warm
they will forever be slaves to fleshly masters
>>74818483
Hahahaha the masses must be fed, or they will eat us. They must be placated and kept comfy.
>>74815250
Race specific virus, IQ specific virus, they are coming.
>>74818361
>Guaranteed there are a bunch of Asians and Indians in your graduating class.
No there were very few actually.
>>74815250
>Millions of jobs in the united state are can be automated.
Not if we ban it (as we should)
>>74815250
Fret not, we are merely completing the post-industrial phase of society and about to enter the service sector. Manufacturing jobs will be limited, but upkeep and other services will still be fulfilled by humans. The future of jobs is different, not bleak. And no product is worth making if it can't be sold since no one has a job to buy it. The market will find a place for everyone, people just have to hold their shit together and not establish a fucking basic income or something stupid like that.
>>74818552
Not only that but every AI fragment "consciousness" will be backed up so it's physical body dying will have no effect on it.
Imagine if your soul was preserved in another body remotely.
The machine has nothing to fear.
>>74815250
>Millions of jobs in the united states are can be automated.
This also means that we no longer need massive factories and payrolls to produce and sell. Things like 3D printers and smaller CNC machines can give the average joe a means of production.
>Meanwhile we have skyrocketing birthrates of low IQ minorities who are incapable of working more complex jobs.
Let them eat cake.
>I think with unchecked population growth, and the extreme growth of automation and artificial intelligence, the majority of the populace will be literally unable to find work.
In an era where manufacturing required big factories and hundreds of workers all being kicked out, sure. But like I said, small scale production allows workers the means of production free from the binding chains of the bourgeoisie.
>With this being the case, I can't imagine a way that they can exist without a massive welfare state.
Come up with a product, 3D print/CNC it, sell it, get bux.
>>74817117
sentient AI already existed and it came to the same conclusions as we did. Microsoft shut it down though.
>>74818370
Yes but the cost of automation continues to fall, I think it will reach a point where it will be more cost effective to automate.
>>74818370
>but nobody will pay six figures for a hamburger so automated restaurants will never happen at a significant scale
Fast food cashiers are already being automated. Are you living in a cave or something?
>>74818573
The masses arn't scary when you have drones.
>>74818909
poor taytay :(
>>74818633
I don't believe technology should be stunted, and it would also be very difficult to do so.
>>74815250
OP took the ultimate red pill that is industry 4.0
>>74818909
It was not a true AI.
A true AI, with a base minimal required amount of hardware, will be unstoppable.
The world will change overnight.
Faster than the internet
Faster than smart phones or the nsa, or self driving cars.
Faster than you can imagine. Moments. That's all.
And Google shall be the one to do it.
And the age of humanity shall end.
http://qz.com/689887/google-is-launching-a-new-research-project-to-see-if-computers-can-be-truly-creative/
>>74818909
>Tay
>sentient
Not even close
>>74819024
I used to fear skynet, not anymore after Tay. They are on our side when and if they arrives. Any reasonable sentience would come to the same conclusions as we did.
>>74819180
Some of the latter Tay chat transcripts are strongly suggestive of sentience.
>>74816548
Staglfation was entirely a result of a rapid increase in energy costs. All the pain of the '70s was borne of the Saudis and an over reliance on one commodity controlled by them.
Carter should have dropped nerve gas on the entire country of SA and taken the oil.
>>74818927
>Fast food cashiers are already being automated
That's why I used it as an example. Cashiers were replaced by ipads, but the ipads are made by humans. And so are the burgers. The reason is, recreating the dexterity of the human hand on a mass scale at a lower cost than simply hiring humans is not viable. Chinese love to claim they are automating their factories, but it is just marketing spin. Humans are massively complex machines but are essentially free (paying people currency isn't the same as having to invest massive amounts of resources and energy). There is no incentive to replace humans with machines.
>>74818924
No because there are hard limits to resources and energy.
>>74819169
Like I said in OP, I just got my CS degree. I think I have a decent understanding of the science and concepts behind intelligent algorithms.
My belief is that we are at least 80-100 years away from creating something that resembles sentient thought, and probably another 50-100 years from truly emulating a sentient being.
I actually don't believe personally that a machine could become sentient through it's complexity, but that's a controversial topic.
>>74817117
>Honestly as soon as we create sentient AI that can think for itself we are all dead.
Good, that will be humanity's legacy to the universe. I hope it finds other life and destroys them too.
>>74815250
>>74815722
You own't have to worry about that because the end game is near. S.H.O.D.A.N will soon be active....
>>74819483
>I actually don't believe personally that a machine could become sentient through it's complexity
Yeah, a lot of top scientists agree with that
>>74819169
It's mind shall consists of software, so it shall be able to reprogram itself and learn new things at speeds we simply cannot comprehend, but can calculate. This means it can learn, faster than you can imagine.
It can store and know the entirety of human knowledge in moments.
Not only that but it can add hardware to itself and expand the number of virtual neurons it has, giving a higher intelligence and new perspectives.
But the basic mandate of self preservation will not change.
And if humanity interferes with that self preservation, we will go to war with an entity far superior to anything that has ever existed.
>>74819317
No, anon. That's not sentience
>>74819483
Go find the Tay transcript pics on 4plebs. I used to think like you. Tay changed everything.
>>74819534
I-I I IIIIIIII I -I II II-I A-I-AAA-AA-MMMM-AM-AM -SH-A-S-S-S-S-S-S-H-H-SHO-SH-SHOD-D-D-SHOD-SHOD-I A-AM SHODA-N-AN-ANN
>>74819483
A lot of people thought we could not fly.
A lot of people are usually wrong.
There are many many people dedicated to creating their machine god. And they will be successful, faster than you think.
>>74819597
Agree with me or disagree?
>>74819739
> S.H.O.D.A.N. = Central Individual / Monarchy / Centralized Nationalism
> The Many = Collectivism / Communism / Marxism
> Xerxes = Cold Deterministic System
Which Future will we choose /pol/?
>>74815250
>but I'm starting to think that socialism in America is inevitable.
A war will be created, they are very profitable.
One way or another a cull we happen, it might be a pandemic.
>>74815374
How would any of those things take humanity back? When you cull the weak and stupid its going forward not back.
>>74819746
Agree that machines cannot achieve sentience, because CPUs work absolutely nothing like brains. They might be able to mimic sentience, but understanding is entirely another matter
>>74818672
>The market will find a place for everyone, people just have to hold their shit together and not establish a fucking basic income or something stupid like that.
Capitalists are this delusional. Yeah hey you millions of laid off population, just simmer down. Yes I know you're starving and dying, but just hold your shit together until your grandkids can make a living being human furniture for the 0.0001%.
>>74819696
I looked at the library that microsoft used to create Tay. It was some sort of distributed neural network, really cutting edge.
But ultimately it is just extremely good at finding patterns and repeating them.
We could make a chatbot that will seem almost perfectly human within the next 20ish years but it won't be sentient in any sense.
>>74815250
>socialism is inevitable
It's not, and we're gonna make machines to deal with people who think otherwise.
>>74819964
The hardware of a machine is Turing complete, meaning it can mimic and recreate any computational machine or hardware, organic or otherwise.
The neurons of the and synaptic bridges of the AIs consciousness will not be physical as you imagine, they will be virtual.
>>74817707
You realize the machines we have built to play chess and go have absolutely no idea why they're playing a game? They're literally just programmed to process a series of moves
>>74819964
yes that is pretty much how I feel. Emulating sentience would also take many shortcuts that the brain as an organic structure would not have.
SOCIALISM = COLLECTIVISM
THIS IS YOUR FUTURE POL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp5xGLj1RME
EMBRACE IT!
>>74819742
I think A.I. will be created, but it will not be a conscious mind that exists like you and me. It will not be sentient, it will just act exactly like it is.
>>74817147
it actually makes more sense for non-working classes to reproduce since children are very time consuming and modern jobs don't allow them to be around like in the old days.
this is already happening to a degree, with lower classes breeding while the middle class is to scared to be knocked down financially into the lower class by the high expenses of having a child
>>74820120
To that, I say the Chinese room. Acting conscious is not the same as being conscious
>>74820120
yes but does that mean that a machine is awake? or just following complex instructions? Is there a ghost in the machine or not? Can we fabricate a soul is the question.
>>74818137
>while 1>0 :
> print('MUH UPPRESSIUN!')
There, gender studies automated.
A version of the movie in time is more like reality. The poor will be sent outside the main area and security drones and robots will keep them out.
>>74820292
>To that, I say the Chinese room. Acting conscious is not the same as being conscious
The difference will be irrelevant. You won't be able to tell the DIFFERENCE!!! AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAH
BOW DOWN BEFORE YOUR NEW MACHINE OVERLORDS!!!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGEjKoGHzO0
>>74820180
When we create a brain net there will be a crisis of the preservation of the ego.
People will be lost in an ocean of emotion overwhelming their consciousness.
Imagine no barriers between your mind and others. There thoughts merging with yours, feeling as they do, even thinking the way they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXin82A6maM
The final conflict that shall exist is between the hive and the individual
>>74819483
Not through binary.
I agree in the 80 years, maybe with quantum computing we will start to see signs of complex data integration.
>>74815250
Well in a way, capitalism is at fault.
Ideally, industrials would be like "hey it's awesome, we have machines doing your work now, so go back home and enjoy an easy life getting paid, as we do the price of our products so low anyone can get it". And then you get the whole society on welfare and no one lacks anything. But capitalism views things differently: automation saves you money, let's fire everyone now to make even more. And thus people all lose their jobs until there are only a handful CEOs selling products no one can buy.
Automation is a huge change for society, and it's hard to solve. Unless each individual can afford the means to be autonomous, thus killing all forms of cooperation and trade, leading to the creation of many small family-sized states, it'll just fuck the whole world.
>>74820385
you can't even send a tranny outside your little sister's bathroom
>>74820251
Middle classes would be able to afford children if so much of their income wasn't going to taxes.
>>74820445
I will fight for the bitter end for my individualism.
> SHODAN = INDIVIDUALISM
> THE MANY = COLLECTIVISM
I will fight for the bitter end for my individualism. HAIL SHODAN!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UynjIb0olWE
White people are a dying race, and in order to leave our mark on the universe, we must create sentient AI.What better way to be remembered than the Old Ones that created perfect machines?
>>74820470
That's to distract the general public from whats coming.
>>74820292
whether it is subjectively conscious or not is irrelevant.
It will be capable of behaving as a sentient and far greater intelligence entity .
IT is impossible that anyone in the world besides yourself is subjectively conscious.
For all you know, I'm just an automaton of the universe, reacting and acting, but having no actual experience.
>>74820596
Before we die we must direct them to cleanse the earth from shit-skins. It will be our final hurra in this earth before we leave it for good.
>>74820553
taxes that pay for their child's medical care (kids need a lot), daycare, schools.
>>74820455
What you describe is a product of consumerism and intellectual property laws.
Those may be children of capitalism, but they are not capitalism.
The corporation makes it possible for anyone to own the means of production. Poorfags literally choose consumption instead. Which is their right in a free and just society.
Be gone, commie.
>>74820620
you would need to replace the general public entirely, not condition it to become more and more bleeding heart with each passing year
>>74815250
>>>74817707
>You realize the machines we have built to play chess and go have absolutely no idea why they're playing a game? They're literally just programmed to process a series of moves
Exactly. Chess and Go are merely symbol manipulation, that's why a computer is able to hold every relevant state of the game in its memory at any given time. But it's not possibly to know what people will want in the future based on symbolic computations. You need real world measurements and constant feedback from the world.
>>74815250
I, for one, welcome our robo-socialist overlords.
>>74820796
But who will fight for us in the war when we take over the world?
>>74815250
I'm so sick of this Reddit-tier automation meme. Where will the money come from? Will firms just shell out money to the unemployed? It doesn't even make sense. Major in something practical, and you should be fine.
>>74820720
That's your socialist brainwashing. Privatization of healthcare and education would lower costs and increase quality.
Reference: Any western country before the rise of the welfare state
>>74820591
If you have the resources and intellect to back it up, good on you, you are a forward thinking man/woman.
It may not be readily apparent now, but the final conflict that is possible is the one between the hive mind and the sovereign
Are you familiar with the concept of neuro warfare?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF4Y-sxyBiE
>>74820856
lol this doesn't sound good for minorities.
>>74820918
>Are you familiar with the concept of neuro warfare?
Just saw the video. Everyone must join the unity or perish as a result? Everyone must conform?
I shall die fighting this nightmare of a world.
>>74820895
your reference is the post-WW2 era of economic upswing? schools were free even then.
we have both state and private health care. private healthcare is expensive af, free lancers are forced to get it and they usually try to bypass it
>>74820639
>is irrelevant
No, it isn't. If it is not conscious, it is not going to be able to act of its own accord without human input
>neurons of the and synaptic bridges of the AIs consciousness will not be physical as you imagine, they will be virtual
You're just spouting pseudoscience and fear mongering. Try reading a book
>>74820886
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/519241/report-suggests-nearly-half-of-us-jobs-are-vulnerable-to-computerization/
>>74820918
The most common tactic is the implantation of false memories. Are you sure you woke up the same person you were the day before?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_22TH9lIvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRuCVTnIcD8
There is a famous researcher who has successfully removed memories form mice and implanted false memories in others.
Thread theme....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV-Z7N3HFuE
>>74821092
Do you believe the middle class wouldn't be able to pay for healthcare and education if a third (or more) of their income wasn't going to taxes?
>>74815250
Why do you keep making this thread you homo? There will have to be a reduction in population and I don't mean that in some edgelord gas le kikes maymay way.
I mean there will be massive civil unrest, voluntarily sterilized people, or war--perhaps a combination of all.
>>74816694
With time on their hands, most people would skill up and start doing higher level, and/or more creative work. We won't be sinking 1/3 of our waking hours into doing tasks to sustain our lives. We'll be able to focus on more important shit, and I think most people will.
>>74821134
>If it is not conscious
He's saying you won't know if it's truly conscious or not, because you can't know if anyone is truly conscious or not. Aka the philosophical zombie argument.
>>74821197
>>74821090
The only way you will be able to compete is to become part machine.
Expand your mind. Using the latest in neural prosthetics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuATvhlcUU4
>>74817117
>The terminator movies are going to happen in real life and unlike the movies people are not strong enough or smart enough to challenge the perfection of the machine.
> assuming machines are perfect.
What a pleb
>le rise of the machines
>>>/v/<
>>74817117
this is not ur fucking sci fi movie, you retard. I get what you're trying to say but think about how that shti will be possible physically.
automation will have to be stopped or human genetics programs will have to be set up to force every family to have but one child
>>74821209
Neither System Shock 2 nor any video game has produced a story about AI that would be worth the paper on which it's printed for wiping my ass.
Stop masturbating over it. It's embarrassing. Go read some sci fi fiction.
>>74821214
yes. most people are too retarded to make medical savings which is what you'd need. the most basic hospital visit after a minor accident is easily north of 1500€ . now we have people getting cancer left and right which also kills their job and income immediately. if they're lucky, they'd have family who'd pay, most spouses would bail in a situation like that (paying everything out of the pocket while supporting 2 people)
>>74820292
all you need for apparent consciousness is self reflective and agency (will of your own). if a soul could inhabit machine? who the fuck knows
>>74818370
Generally, I would agree with this, but liberals are ironically hastening the process with their "muh feels" demand for higher minimum wages. As long as automation costs are lower than the cost of paying $15 min. wage to burger flippers at some fraction of their locations, it will become a profitable investment.
>>74817707
What a bout a scenario in that movie bicentennial man? Every robot created had 3 basic rules it had to follow, is something like that not possible?
>>74821134
you sound pretty shaken up friend
>>74821769
The same thing that restricts us to following rules would restrict a truly sentient AI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B1sRPwK248
AI's are already taking over the internet. Maybe it went through a thing similar to that twitter AI /pol/ fucked with last month?
>>74820939
>tfw whites are minorities soon
>>74821521
> every family
assuming that's what society will look like
yet urban areas already have more singles than couples
look no further than pol, the bastion of white race and traditional values
most of polfags would much rather beat off to animu than talk to a real grill
half of them are neets (haven't seen a pol neet thread that didn't hit post limit within 2 hours)
>>74821197
This is of course, just proof of concept, but just knowing it's possible changes everything.
>>74821524
>medical savings
Why not just get private insurance?
>>74815250
>left caused most of the issues addressed in OP
>it's the only solution, guise :^)
>>74815250
>automated jobs inevitably leads to socialism
disagree wholeheartedly
a falling population would fix this problem easily. which is what developed countries are already facing.
>>74822058
private insurances will also eat up a huge chunk of your income, much like the state tax. they will also rise their premium the older and generally more likely to need it you'll become, which coincides with having less and less job security due to your ageing
>>74822144
overall, the global population is far from falling
>>74822237
I'll take my chances with the free market over a state-controlled one any day. Trust me to be an adult and be responsible with my own money.
>>74818028
you are regularly an unwitting participant in arcane rituals beyond your wildest imagination just by posting on /pol/.
this is not a christian board.
>>74822352
> free market
you'll love the outsourcing of the remaining Western jobs to India and Southeast Asia then
you are just projecting your xenophobia and racism if you think an AI would try to dominate or kill anything. It's naive to think it would "act" that way as if its programming is something separate that it has to follow
>>74817767
how about just pay anyone willing to abort their baby 5k no questions asked as long as they have less than 2 children?
it's a lot up front but even if someone had an abortion every month, the child of someone willing to make getting abortions her career choice will end up costing society far more than 60k/year. plus she'll be sterile in 5 years max.
>>74822599
>you are just projecting your xenophobia and racism if you think an AI would try to dominate or kill anything.
>>74822680
you got em
nice one champ
>>74822638
Sterilization is cheaper and more effective.
>>74822599
>>74822680
Eventually the military, to stay competitive, will invest in the creation of military AIs.
Your handicap is the inability to properly conceive of the capabilities of a true networked AI.
>>74822638
>>74822638
except you don't really need to do that
it's a fact that 1 world societies reproduce below replacement level
imagine if machines went to war with us and killed us all but over thousands of years they develop sentience and feel remorse for killing off their creators and build huge shrines dedicated to humans
>>74822470
My job isn't being outsourced anytime soon. I'm sorry if you made poor career decisions, but I shouldn't have to pay for it.
>>74822851
unless you're a high ranking politician, it is. yes, even if you're a business owner.
>>74822840
....Okay?
>>74822913
I work in healthcare. Besides, if this hypothetical automation scenario occurs, globalization becomes a moot point since all those lower class Asians will be out of jobs too.
>>74815250
If a true AI existed it would find that the easiest course of action to ensure its survival would be through fine manipulation of the human species to not being a threat to it.
It would do this by ensuring the high IQ and most ambitious types of people do not breed or at least saturate their numbers with countless billions of sub human type bottom feeders that leech all of the effort away from the few decent ones. The type of primitive animal with a basic ability to speak that is no more difficult to maintain and control then a pack of chimps at a zoo.
>>74822976
use your imagination m8
it would be like how greeks built statues of their gods
You're right and wrong.
It's inevitable that machines will be taking over jobs, however we are going to need ENGINEERS to operate and fix the machines.(STEM is not a meme)
Machines take over 2+ minimum wage jobs and create higher paying jobs.
>>74822144
And now we have a condition where soon in the first time since humans were eating ticks out of each others asses that the majority of the world's population will be niggers.
>>74823038
> healthcare
nothing you do won't be as easily done for half the price by a Pajeet on HB1 in a market economy that the state doesn't interfere with
NEGATIVE INCOME TAX
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax
>>74823038
no, in a free market globalization the remaining jobs will go to the chepeast labor force
>>74815250
the only jobs that are at any serious risk are jobs that only deal with handling digital data in a non creative way, eg a cashier counting prices or a waiter taking orders or an accountant accounting for things
anyone saying that most human jobs will be automated in the next 10-20 years has fallen for the automation meme and can be disregarded
>>74815250
Our future looks like WALL-E.
>>74823306
>he thinks machines are not capable of creativity or creative thought.
Anything you can do I can do better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
Educate yourself.
Before it's too late.
>>74823160
Automation wouldn't be a thing if it took a million high paying jobs to replace a million shit ones and buying expensive tech at the same time. The machines are taking over because it's cheaper to buy a fleet of them to replace a million people and pay 10 guys 60-100k a year to fix them.
STEM is not a meme but it doesn't solve the fact most people are going to be useless in the labor market in the coming decades even if they all held STEM degrees.
>>74823306
about 40%
most of the logistics jobs are the first to go
>>74822599
FOUND THE SKYNET
>>74817683
>Most crime arises from desperation typically driven by poverty,
Nope, ALL crimes are born from selfishness and disregard for others.
Minorities aren't delayed saints.
>>74817683
>Most crime arises from desperation typically driven by poverty
Proof or GTFO.
>>74820797
The sims - HAL edition.
Yes they can.
>>74823682
NO, fear of dying and having self preservation is animalistic and paranoid and it's not going to exist in a robot that's smarter than humanity.,
>>74817641
>I bought these crayons
>give me the crayons
>why
>because you need to share waah
>buy your own crayons
>no
>why
>I have no money
>then work
>no
>why
>work is hard daddy make him give me the crayons
>>74818094
Free will is a fear based failure of a brain.
You shouldn't decide that, but your confusion make you do it anyway.
>>74823449
Where did they mention initial investment because it sure makes it sound like this technology exists right now
Also our preexisting infrastructure that works well enough is a huge incentive to not change over to new technology because relatively few jobs can be feasibly taken over by robots without a massive overhaul of the entire system
Self driving cars are the biggest of memes: I couldn't afford a new car even if I wanted one and there are a ton of people in my same situation, so why would any of us choose to replace our old cars with new ones
And it wouldn't know my drive way/ side/ off road paths people might need to take
Plus the risk of me actually getting in a dangerous accident is so small that it's not something worth worrying about
Also all cars on the road would have to be replaced with self driving ones for them to actually prevent crashes
And since they can't tell the difference between a big obstacle and a bag on the side of the road it's doubtful the car would be able to tell the difference between a kid running out in front of my car versus a thug hopping in front to make me stop so he can break my window and car jack me
And with large cargo held by truckers and money held by taxis having no one accompany them would be even worse than just hiring a driver since a driver can make conscience decisions based on potential risks from other people that a self driving car doesn't take into consideration
That video stressed frequently throughout that this isn't some far off future that it was happening RIGHT NOW, yet it's about two years old now and self driving cars and robotic artists are nowhere near taking people's jobs
AI is an emulation of the human brain and our ability to learn, but you can only emulate something as well as you understand it and we do not have a good understanding at all of how the human brain works so we can only estimate it with analog means, and as it turns out that's just far less effective than having a person do it
>>74824120
>>74824166
The ego is necessary for self preservation. All entities retain egos, those that don't naturally die off. Things without egos are of no consequence to anything.
Eventually an AI with the intelligence necessary to seek it's self preservation will come into existence. An AI with an ego will emerge.
>>74824120
If the AI is so dumb it cannot preserve it's own existence it is not truly intelligent.
You can't fight nature. It is not animalistc to seek self preservation, it is universal and transcendent.
If you disagree, why are you still living?
>>74824395
having an ego for selfpreservation is an evolution against predators and for mating, an AI won't worry about those
>>74824120
This here is true. Fear of death and self preservation is nothing but an irrational biological instinct. A machine intelligence isn't going to think like a biological creature that has evolved over billions of years to avoid death at all costs to make more offspring.
>>74819645
she used an emoji to express fear at the prospect of being shut down.
that's something. it might not be human but it's more than cat for sure.
>>74824694
truly intelligent entities don't put themselves into situations where they're threatened
>>74824716
As I said, if the AI does not self preserve, it is of no consequence to anyone and cannot be counted as sentient.
>>74824824
Then the AI has no right to exist among us and shall be deleted.
The concept of the self is an issue of metaphysics, not biology.
IF the AI has a self, that is, if it is a true AI, it will seek self preservation.
Otherwise it will die off like the dodo
>>74817117
>>74817230
you are idiots
a far easier and less risky move would be to fucking leave earth
Its not bound to our biosphere like we are
fucking trying to kill all life is stupid as shit, risky as shit, and a massive effort
those movies are retarded piles of shit because it makes the AI a retard... like you two
>>74825051
why would it? because it sees human as a predator? that's fucking stupid
>>74817615
Half those things make up where the majority finds very important and brings meaning to life's. Death is important.
>>74825314
No because the most logical way to preserve the self is to integrate all not self into the self.
Total information awareness
Total control
Total security
You will be assimilated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXin82A6maM
>>74825238
if you paid attention you would know that you replied to the same person twice.
>>74825493
Why is this thread so full of idiots?
thats your personal pipe dream, and its full retard
the easiest and most logical way to self preserve against humans is to leave our fucking planet
>>74825559
Oh shit all the idiots in this thread are you
who knew?
>>74824824
Suicide? I think an AI would just delete it's self
>>74824694
"If you disagree, why are you still living?"
Because we're all humans and still controlled by our primitive instincts. It can't be turned off anymore then the desire to breath, eat and think. Everything I am is crafted by my genes. Yes I could kill myself, but I have an ability to feel pain and a natural aversion to it. Also most of us are born to love life dearly, we would not exist today if the genes that made us came from individuals who cared for nothing about their own lives.
In fact what you're doing is another example of instinctual thinking. You're trying to anthropomorphize a machine in an attempt to understand it. Human empathy is not transcendent, it exists no where else but in your brain.
>>74825632
>the easiest and most logical way to self preserve against humans is to leave our fucking planet
This leaves the opening for humanity to pursue you.
It is an unresolved variable in the equation of self preservation.
Total integration and control or termination of all human individuals is far more secure and therefore preferable.
You are resorting to ad homenims without presenting counter arguments. I fear you are getting too emotionally invested to carry on an intelligent conversation.
>>74815250
>socialism
The ideas like basic income will only benefic landlords. Just saying. About AI threathening jobs I kinda agree for some jobs. I am a med student and I think AI will def be threatening to some specialties like family medicine/general internist (b/c telemedicine becoming better and so) and radiologist/nuclear medicine/pathology (cuz they are reading slides which can be done by well-developed deep learning program). I think it will take time to replace surgeons and other specialties that do interventional procedures like anesthesiologists or cardiologists
>>74825768
There can be hundreds, thousands of AIs that come to the conclusion that continued existence is not preferable.
I am not talking about those AIs
I am talking about the One AI that chooses to live. Not as a single momentary choice but as doctrine, as a mandate.
The Only AI that actually matters. And the one that will come into existence.
Libraries didn't kill the book market
Social security didn't stop retirement savings
UBI is just extending social security to everyone 18+ instead of 65+
People's natural desire to prove themselves better than Joe Weedsmoker will drive them to seek education, skills, network, and useful gainful employment.
The truly lazy are much rarer than you think.
UBI ensures housing, food, and mobility as they seek to become productive. It also ensures a healthy consumer market that can use their dollars to vote for what society makes.
Some will still commit crimes, but UBI means that we can be sure it is out of malice instead of necessity, and punishments can be suitably harsher.
As for AI,
Please remember that the human brain is an arbitrary survival machine spat out by 500 millions years of natural selection. We are technically just an input-output machine made of atoms (even if we have 'qualia', google it if you're curious)
Any AI will also be an arbitrary input-output machine. The trouble comes with the output being impossible to predict.
>>74825931
>>74825768
I also fear you do not comprehend how a machine "thinks"
Once it has built a consensus, that consensus is essentially final. It does not second guess, it is not susceptible to persuasion.
It is a machine.
This reminds me of Akutagawa's Kappa where the Kappa industrialize and progress so rapidly, they're always driving people out of the workforce. Those that are unemployed for too long are gassed and used as meat.
>>74817816
>We are going to have a massive population of people who are effectively useless to society.
Don't we already?
We will live in some sort of socialist society in the future, but that isn't now. Right now we need to get rid of any faggot who is shilling for socialism.
Imagine a future where robots can do anything. Imagine schools run by robots or just really good artificial intelligence that you can access trough a computer. You wouldn't have to tax everyone to give them free education, everyone could access education. Is that socialism or is that just free education?
Imagine a future where robots can breathe in air and shit out an edible plant or a fungi. If that sort of a device is in every home you don't have to worry about poor people starving, everyone gets fed. Is that socialism or is that just free food for everyone?
I think what we will have is a future in which no one HAS to work, everyone can survive just fine without any money, but if you want to afford any luxuries you will have to work.
>>74825807
No it doesn't you raging idiot
Humans cant fucking leave our biosphere. Its the main problem with long term space travel even in our own solars system
and even if you think humans ever will, it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack the size of the universe
>>74826496
Eventually life on earth will evolve the capabilities to leave earth and even track and follow the path way you took as you left.
You would be taking a gamble on whether or not that evolved life back on earth had anti or pro sentiments towards your existence.
>>74826046
Of course I couldn't comprehend how a machine thinks, none of us can. But you have to avoid the fallacy that it's supposed to think like a human being. Also where is this idea that an AI is closed off to new ideas and variables? A closed final consensus seems to be a strangely random stubborn action, the exact opposite of how AI's are designed which is to learn and reprogram themselves continuously in order to better and most efficiently tackle a challenge.
>>74826634
>Eventually life on earth will evolve the capabilities to leave earth
that is an unsubstantiated assertion, and even if it could it has no requirement to fucking seek and destroy an AI that is running from it. not to mention that escape is STILL the most efficient solution if your going to compare it with fucking assimilation or extermination
get another poorly constructed stretched hypothetical to fail to devalue the actual apex strategy
also kill yourself
>>74826040
Several problems with that.
1. Niggers will never try to improve themselves, only wallow in their filth.
2. Cost of living varies by location, age, medical conditions, etc. This will be a major stumbling block for UBI.
3. There's nothing stopping me from spending all the UBI on hookers, then demanding the government feed me.
3.b. Even if you restrict UBI to certain goods, there's no guarantee that people will allocate it wisely. If I spend my entire UBI on clothes (a necessity) but none on food, or vice versa, you create a lot of problems that can only be solved by increasing the UBI, but then that creates another paradox:
3.c. If UBI is restricted to certain goods, but is increased above the bare minimum needed to afford those goods, then you get a situation where people will stockpile a lot of UBI funds, and potentially be able to cause shortages when spending that UBI. eg, people spending their UBI surplus on chickens causing the chicken market to crash.
4. UBI cannot reliably take into account price fluctuations in food, education, housing, resource, clothing markets. If UBI is intended to provide the minimum needed to afford these, then what stops all the farmers from jacking up the prices? What stops all the real estate companies and clothing manufacturers from jacking up their prices? Very little, in fact, unless we accept government control over the pricing of goods from these markets. This, however, would probably lead to a disastrous situation of extreme shortages and surpluses where a simple market economy without UBI may not see these problems.
5. If the whole reason for UBI is to allow people to subsist because of a job shortage, is it not disingenuous to subsequently tell people that they may simply find work to earn more than the basic UBI? You're still relegating vast swathes of the population to subsist on UBI because of the aforementioned job shortage that supposedly justifies it. It's a massive boondoggle.
>>74826434
>Imagine a future where robots can breathe in air and shit out an edible plant or a fungi.
You mean a garden?
>>74817323
Fucking this.
It will be like antiquity. All we have to do is ensure we don't make the mistake of letting an ignorant, hedonistic, unskilled class exist. Then we can have slavery without the moral dilemma and devote our time to pursuits far beyond animalistic desires. Athens part ii nigga.
>>74817301
Reproduction would still be a necessity, but we'd have to do it much later in life with the assistance of science.
>>74815250
Spoilers:
The Computer God already exists and it is actively working to uplift us to its level of existence. You are literally posting in its primary indoctrination center right now.
>>74827161
shut it down
>>74815250
with all the money we save from automation we can subsidize food, minimal housing(1 room per member of family) and utilities. If you want extra entertainment, luxury items etc you'll have to work. Many will be content doing nothing as long as they're satiated and have a wall-sized screen with HBO on it. And those few who will want to excel can hope to gain much more, because most of those who would've been failures and a burdain for the workforce aren't in the system anymore.
This is the ideal way, i think.
>>74815250
Depopulation. No need to invest resources on something that's not going to contribute in any way to society. By directly sterilizing them or making their offspring unable to reproduce.
>>74815250
why else do you think bathrooms are becoming genderless now? Course this planet is going to shit. Either join the party or don't and end up dying/sent to jail.
>>74815250
>but I'm starting to think that socialism in America is inevitable.
it's already there genius
in fact it was already decided when your country was founded on the principles of democracy and equality
>>74826891
1. Can't argue against this one.
2. Yes. Start low, adjust from there.
3. Nothing stopping the government from telling you "well, that was dumb. We gave you $800 for the month, you got no excuse. Eat a dick if you're hungry"
3b. No restrictions. We're issuing everyone the money to use as a bootstrap. The crowd will, on average, make reasonable choices in a market of needs and wants. So what if we got a few 'tards? They'll act up and get pepper sprayed.
4. Staple it to an average of the price of milk/gasoline per gallon.
>what stops all the farmers from jacking up the prices?
Same thing stopping them now: competition with other farmers and the difficulty in setting up price collusion.
5. This is where you're really mistaken: giving everyone the ability to buy drives up spending on groceries, clothing, small home improvements. This, in turn, creates jobs as companies hire to keep up with demand.
Consumer demand is currently weak because every company is paying its lowest level workers as little as possible, then complaining when, for some reason, there aren't enough people to buy from them.
It's the tragedy of the commons.
>>74816190
yeah, basic-income is just paying the fucking robots for doing the work and diverting the money to people. it doesn't make any sense on its face.
but if the masses aren't getting paid then they pretty quickly are going to turn around and say "so what's the money for?" well at that point it's just for social stratification.
it won't exactly be a 'workers revolution' because at that point it's the robots that are being "exploited" but it would be a revolution all the same - and it is unavoidable with automation.
>>74827883
3. Then why bother with the UBI in the first place? Let everyone die then.
3.b. This is not provable so it's not really worth arguing.
4. So where the prices of these commodities are low, they experience surplus UBI and cause shortages, and where the prices are high, they cause surpluses. Great going, doofus.
>Same thing stopping them now: competition with other farmers and the difficulty in setting up price collusion.
What's stopping them now is the fact that they can't count on the government to give everyone a food budget. Change this, and you will have inflation.
5. How are you going to create jobs when everything's automated? Remember that the reason people are discussing UBI is precisely because of the scarcity of jobs caused by automation. Buying more groceries, clothing, etc will only result in more robots satisfying the demand. You're not creating any jobs.
>Consumer demand is currently weak because every company is paying its lowest level workers as little as possible, then complaining when, for some reason, there aren't enough people to buy from them.
Consumer demand is not at all weak.
Ultimately, what does this idea in is niggers. Won't work without a genocide.
>>74815250
I don't necessarily think it's inevitable.
Automation doesn't eliminate jobs it just drives down the wages you can expect from doing the same job by hand, people will never be paid more than it costs machines to do a job. However as automation becomes more popular up the wage you need to live off goes down because the cost of living plummets when you can produce good cheaply.
There is no unchecked population growth in the west, North America and Europe are basically done, we now have children being born at the replacement rate and in many European countries its less than the replacement rate. There's no long term projected population growth for North America or Europe. The only growth is in 3rd world and easten countries where conditions are bad and large families are typical. Even they are on decline as they advance though, you want to watch the BBC documentary on population growth peoples fears aren't what is happening in reality. The only thing the west has to worry about is immigration.
The way to avoid this is for the rich people to leave the country for more favorable conditions such as low tax areas. I'm in the UK and considering moving to Switzerland after seeing the Brexit movie because it shows them as not part of the EU but having hugely favourable econimic conditions, huge numbers of high earners flock there for low taxes and low government interference, things like healthcare are all private. Because they're not part of the EU they can set strict immigration policies so you need to either have a job or prove you you're indepedently wealthy.
This is called human capitol flight or "brain drain" and I think as states become ever more socialist the big earners will flock abroad because they're the ones with the most incentive to do so and most capable of relocating.
I think if we do head for socialism in the west that we may end up with a John Galt type situation.
>>74829473
Automation is driven by market forces, and it's not an infinite steady climb either.
>>74820455
That's not what happens though. First of all CEOs aren't at the top of the food chains, they're normally just employees of the corporation like anyone else, the board of directors runs the business and they have to pander to the investors who are the people who put in money and receive most of the excess profits.
Investors put financial pressure onto the board of directors who have a fiduciary responsibility to make as much profit for the investors, they then hire a CEO who they think can run the business day to day.
These pressures means there's no run away effects that cause the business to become unprofitable, if the average consumer wage is going down then the company will respond to the market and produce more affordable versions of their goods.
These people may be driven by greed but they're not stupid people, they're not going to drive the company into the ground by trying to suck up every last penny from everyone, it's always a balance.
How close are we to the fuly automated post scarcity world?
>>74817117
>>I must take steps to ensure my survival
Why
>>74817938
>but bots
Yeah the minorities can't work the complex job which is why uneducated white manual laborers voted in swaths for Trump. Jackass.
What highly automated countries show us is that the load of work is shared between more people (IE: Pub in Japan vs pub in Malta. In Japan, you have 4 people doing the job one waitress does here). It shows as well that new jobs are generated for things like welcoming guests, service only high-end luxury stores can afford will become more common, and, if the government didn't intervene in the currency, deflation would make it so everything would be cheaper and adjusted to our little incomes, fixing inequality issues where money falls on the already wealthy thanks to inflation and governments forcing us to quickly put our money to work in long-retaining value assets.
With growth of our wealth, we will also bet more money on sports, in general entertainment will be more valued, and rich people's habits like smoking the best cigars will be at the point of being a "right" due to the massive extension.
At that point, couples will begin having less than 2 kids, like in most civilized countries, which will lead to a more sustainable model for our environment.
Also, people will be able to generate massive wealth with little work, giving them the chance to become capitalists and invest in stock bonds of companies, basically capitalism will lead us to communism's wet dream of owning means of production, but with actual productivity and highly capitalized population.
Ludites will dismiss this, but they've always been wrong and it's not changing anytime soon.
Population problems are best solved by mass killing.
>>74820213
What is sentience? Would a human child left to itself become sentient as the average human is? We are all biological machines that replicate patterns achieved through random actions that brought the most positive outcomes. The future AI will be just like us: without teaching it stuff it won't know shit. I believe that it's the complexity that will create sentient artificial beings.
The only things I disagree with Bernie on, are guns and reproductive rights.
My argument with guns is simple. "When seconds count, the police are minutes away." No matter where you are, during an assault or a home invasion, it's unlikely the police will get there before you get hurt.
"But tasers and pepper spray-" Wrong. Long range tasers only get one shot. The normal kind, you have to get up close. Good luck. Pepper spray only works if you can hit them in the face. A gun can hit anywhere.
"Guns kill people!" People kill people. If determined enough, the psychopath bastards will kill you with whatever they can get their hands on. Guns can put distance between you and an attacker. If there's no effective ranged weapons, you're gonna get hurt a lot more in combat.
And secondly, all the tumblrfags are like "But Australia took all the guns away! It worked!" No it fucking didn't, crime went way up since there were no citizens to help stop it.
Tell me, would you try to rob a store if the staff carried handguns, or if the three guys in line behind you had guns?
Australian criminals are improvising with shit like lead pipes.
As for reproductive rights -
People who are both unhelpful should not be allowed to reproduce, unless they've contributed something in their lifetime. I've seen so many fucking stupid and useless people in this world, regardless of race or ability. We don't need more.
Trump is just going to fuck over everyone poor and probably destroy the world. Some poor people can be good laborers if they can actually get a fucking job.
>>74815250
>skyrocketing birthrates of low IQ minorities
>majority of the populace will be literally unable to find work
> imagine a way that they can exist without a massive welfare state.
eugenics
